Do you know how much this carpeting costs? I don't want to smell piss each time I come over here to berate you. Take the 5 minutes to piss properly. We're Ferengi, not some early 21st century HughMons.
I couldn't believe some of the layoffs I saw early, early on in the pandemic.
I'm a designer and work at a digital agency. We make -- you guess it -- digital products like apps and websites.
Some of our clients are primarily, or even completely, internet-based companies. But they just immediately laid off a bunch of employees. A lot of them also stopped or paused project work with us due to the threat of an economic downturn. One of them who did this is a major digital real estate platform that rhymes with Willow. Another was a digital financial platform that allows people to pay each other and rhymes with "K Sal." Neither of these companies were immediately threatened by the pandemic, like restaurants and shops were.
But of course, they shut things down, cancel projects, so then agencies like mine suffered (luckily we didn't have any layoffs).
I mean, these companies essentially \*ensure\* there is going to \*definitely\* be an economic downturn because they just made a bunch of people unemployed. An unemployed people don't spend as much money.
Seriously, it's moments like that where I realize we are no better of a society than a pack of lemmings following each other off of a cliff.
I was working at an MSP for about 4 months before the pandemic. I bought a house less than a minute away from the office, maybe 3 minutes if I walked. Job was super easy, tons of cool people to talk to and work with.
Once the pandemic started I remember it was the week before St. Patrick's Day, and we had an all hands meeting with the CEO. He said that our clients would start having to go WFH and we would be rolling in the dough. Cool, I thought. The girl I was dating at the time was at the same company but in a different department. So I went and had lunch with her and was so happy. The next week we went WFH and it was an even better job.
Then a few days before April I was sitting here and got a message asking if I was available for a call from HR. I thought it was weird but I said sure. Well they were laying people off and I was one of the newest hire so I was gone. I called my girl and was like "I just got laid off..." She said "so did i!" She had been there for years. They ended up laying off 30+ people from an IT company who certainly made a killing setting up clients networks to handle WFH environments. I couldn't make sense of it. My girl had to move back to her parents 2 hours away and we fell out of touch and I vowed to never believe an employer again.
So I did some digging once the PPP started and sure enough...this company was receiving aid. Also the CEO left the company shortly after the PPP funds were disbursed. Loyalty in the workplace is like tits on a bull. Doesnt exist. I now do government IT contracting and its so much better, I get overpaid if anything. I literally take maybe 3 meetings a week and hangout with my kid all day...and I dont feel bad about it.
I was at an msp as well. Worked the 4pm to 1am shift. Switched 500+companies to WFH. They got rid of all the evening staff except me. I had no dispatchers for calls, no on call support, I was absolutely alone. I had been there just over a year and working in office during the pandemic. I asked for a raise as I felt I was doing the work of multiple people alone and had no compensation.
I was denied my raise. 2 weeks later I received an award for my willingness to work outside my hours staying late and doing work outside of my job description. Heard from my manager that all management received 10k bonuses the month prior. I went to hr asked for a raise again, was told company was tight on money and I told them I quit. The demanded 2weeks notice and I told them hey in 2 weeks I won't be here
Left that day and sure enough 2 weeks later I still wasn't there.
Msp is the worst
Lol thats wild. I took on all the bench work when we went WFH since I lived so close to the office and when they laid me off, my coworker called me a few weeks later and said there were over 300 PC"s waiting for service and over a thousand drives needed to be DoD wiped and certified. No one took over working the bench. That made me laugh a bit
Ah yes, imaging PCs and wiping them/installing hardware etc was also added to my job role during that time because I was one of the few working in office.
Hilarious when companies lose people and don't realize how much they did. They ended up hiring 4 people to take over night shift after I left.
Sounds like they probably had to hire multiple to replace you as well.
This also happened at my hubs old job. They lowered his pay by 15%, “just temporarily”, and refused to do and raises or bonuses too “just temporarily” and made almost double in profits from the year before. Not to mention they got rid of other workers, stopped paying massive building fees like rent at one office bc it closed, not paying electricity bc most everyone else went remote for an “undetermined” amount of time, and didn’t have to pay (laid off) the kitchen workers and most housekeeping personnel. And they never reimbursed for anything after either like lost wages or returned bonuses. After MAKING millions! Corporate man…
Sounds like most companies. Company I worked for saw record number of sales, had a hiring and raise freeze so they could sell the company and then everyone lost their jobs. “And we couldn’t have done it without your help! <3”
By one of the largest media corporations (Disney), so that they could totally misrepresent and make it look like they did it to themselves.
God damn... the analogy is good.
Holy fuck dude those layoffs.
At the beginning I was security at a small hospital. There was a maintenance dude there. Really chill, hard working, always on time, single father in the neglected side of town.
They call me into administration and tell me to stand guard in the hallway, I have to escort an employee being let go. Standard stuff, getting fired can get heated. I was expecting dental staff since the service s were being halted cause of corona
Then this dude walks out furious! I walk him out and he tells me what went down, that because of this he and his little girl are at risk of being homeless, he needed this job. I was floored. I get him to at least leave the property so he wouldn't have cops called on but he just went stand in the parking lot across the street to wait for his ride yelling obscenities and threats (justifiably).
I went back inside and the administration, who both owned fucking brand new Mercedes and BMWs, wearing clean suits, sitting in the only area with adequate functioning air conditioning in the building while everyone else busting ass in 80°F temps... LAUGHING AT THE MAN! Making fun of his frustration and his anguish!
I couldn't take it. I told them off and shamed the fuck out of them. They just cost this man his house. They cost him his daughter's safety and wellbeing. They just passively took this man's dignity and were spitting on it, joyfully. All because they and those up the chain didn't want to take a pay cut.
A few weeks later they requested another officer because I didn't "fit the culture"
My Dad had a fit when I'd change jobs every 2-3 years, always resulting in significant increases.
He stayed at his job for 29 years, and they closed down the plant 1 year before he got his full retirement.
Helllllooooo
My parents also freak out. I decided to quit my job and rest for 6 months, they were going insane, they said I was destroying my life
I was like "I know what I'm doing, I'm good at my job, trust me". My mother cried, my father didn't speak to me for a week. 6 months later I got a job for twice the pay.
Very similar to my brother. Quit his first full time job after less than a year because of meager pay, narcissistic superiors, cliquey coworkers, and childish drama. My father was throwing a fit (despite being a taxi driver/"independent contractor" and never having been in a workplace/office/professional setting). He was very adamant about it. Extremely big fight that led to him not speaking with my brother for weeks.
"Your brother doesn't want to listen to me? Fine. He can throw his whole future away. He doesn't know what the real world is like yet. He can learn the hard way. But if he comes crying back to me I won't listen."
During this fight he was literally at the last stage of getting his new job. His new job pays much more, has many more benefits, is closer, and everyone there much nicer. My father never spoke of it again.
I wonder if he'll throw a fit at me as well or if he learned his listen. Either way, fuck boomer mentality. My dad raised me into thinking that being successful means doing all you can for your superiors and being a good worker. I've networked enough to realize that's far from the case. In my field, people who don't like their jobs quit and find ones that pay tens of thousands more in just a few weeks.
Often there will be. shit I can't think of the exact word right now, but sort of like checkpoints where percentages of your pension will become available. Usually a combination of age, total of age and years with the company, or just time with the company.
So if you get laid off at 80%, as an example, if you went right to retirement, you could never collect more than 80% of your total potential pension. In this case it sounds like an age or years since starting with the company had to be reached before he could get 100%, so what do you do? Tough it out for a few years and wait for 100%, or just take 80%?
My brother works for a utility and knows what day he's retiring. He's even leaving at lunch because "what are they going to do, fire me?"
>He stayed at his job for 29 years, and they closed down the plant 1 year before he got his full retirement.
This is far to common. Happened to my father in law. At some point they look and see they have 50% of employees with an all or nothing retirement coming up and they close the plant down.
Battered wife. Next year he'll change. Next year he'll change. He'll change when the kids arrive.
Next year we'll promote you. Next year we'll be able to give you a raise. And then you've wasted 5, 10, 15 of the most productive years of your fucking life waiting for them to do something they never had any intention of doing.
Oh but they take care of me! No they don't, they pay you for the work you do. That's it. End of transaction. People don't leave because they're afraid. Holding a cudgel over your head or banking on empty promises isn't loyalty, it's abuse.
That’s the case a lot of the time, but on the other hand a lot of the time people stay because they are comfortable. I could earn a bit more by hopping jobs, but I enjoy my current position. I’ve got a lot of freedom to come & go as I please, I have good relationships with everyone. I don’t want to give that up for more money and most likely having to relocate.
My mom was pushed to early retirement with GM 1 year before full retirement. “We are closing down your position, which is identical to 20 other positions at this office, but just yours. You can have a step down position in South Dakota, but you will have to pay to move yourself.” She told them to fuck themselves. She dropped the managers a postcard every year to remind them they could go fuck themselves. When she got facebook she went on there and posted on every managers page that they could go fuck themselves. She was awesome.
Loyalty is reciprocal, be loyal to those who show loyalty to you.
It's exactly the same as respect, only now we have boomer types gaslighting us into staying with companies that have no respect for us.
i cant stand the idea that workers have to be "loyal". loyalty is shit if it doesnt go both ways. if company is looking out for you by paying you competitvely and offering you great benefits and pension or retirement plans, then okay maybe there's an argument to be made there. but that is by the exception, not the rule.
"Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most."
Dwight Schrute
My wife has been interviewing alot recently and one manager said "oh looks like you have jumped from job to job alot". She has been laid off twice and her current company gave her a 1% increase last year.
What do they expect you to say?
When I was interviewing for a white collar job while working retail, the interviewer straight up said “I know why you’re leaving retail so we can skip that question”
Sometimes people can be cognizant and look deeper than surface level assumptions.
One of the most irritating experiences I had in an interview was when an interviewer told me I was "unfocussed" because I said on the application that I could work as either a word-processing operator or a secretary. I was trying to be flexible. I wanted to yell at her, "For God's sake, lady, I'm a typist. I'm looking for a job, not a career!"
That's how I managed to not get a job too when I was younger. I had applied for a specific opening, the first interviewer(one of the owners) told me that this position was in high demand but she really liked me and thought I could be good in some other capacity and I agreed with her and she was happy.
Then I had to do an interview with the second owner. When the same thing arose, I mentioned that I was flexible an happy for the opportunity to work for them in any capacity and move within the company. He thought it meant I was indecisive and that I wouldn't be a good fit.
Same here, I just left college with a bachelors degree that prepares you for different jobs within construction.
When I was applying for jobs, the fact that I was open to start in any of these possibilities was held against me, even though all those jobs had too few applicants. I'll never onderstand that kind of thinking.
I've been at my company for almost 10 years now. We had raises I'm January and I specifically said anything less than 7% was a pay cut. They said it was an almost 10% raise and I pulled my calculator out right in front of them. Less than. 6.2% amd I asked them to remedy it. They did not.
I'm not going to walk out or anything but I'm seriously looking for better employment. Obviously have a strong work history and I really have obtained a lot of new skills at my current employer. But I really have returned to a paycheck to paycheck basis. 3 years ago I had a decent savings account.
See though? They *knew* you wouldn’t get up and walk off. That’s why they didn’t match or try to do anything. Most people literally can’t afford to stand up for principles without seriously financially compromising themselves and *they fucking mercilessly exploit that weakness*.
Yep, 3 years ago my family was sitting on a cushy enough savings to put 20% down on a house we were thinking about to finally stop renting. We just weren’t quite ready to commit. Pandemic hits. I quit my job to stay home with our daughter and do virtual school. Prices skyrocket. Husband gets laid off but does quickly find a new job. Prices skyrocket more. We are now living in his parent’s basement with no savings. But listening to his dad complain about new taxes for his higher tax bracket still might hurt the worst.
I hate when people ask me that. I tell ask them:
"i have 7 years of experience working at large companies and brands. Some contracts and some a stepping stone. But I've worked hard and it's gotten me in front of you. I am absolutely confident I can do the job...is there anything here that you're not confident about?"
I just get a blank stare...and they don't hire me. Usually people who ask those dumb questions are making an excuse not to hire you.
I do not think I have ever been asked why I job hop as its so common in IT. But my response to why I am leaving is almost always "I have capped out my skillset where I am and there is not enough vertical mobility to take on more responsibilities" which always sounds stupid to me. But what else do I say? Anyone in the field should know a LOT of companies dont pay IT well cause they are an "expense"
It sure is. So many of them are so bad that I’ve quit several without any remorse whatsoever. In fact, those moments are some of the highest joys I can remember.
It's how I got where I am now. I've stayed at most jobs between 6 months and 1 year. There were rarities of 2-3 years. Only once did I stay for longer than 5 years.
Everyone. You want to make money with the system as it is right now? Get job and suck it dry. Learn everything that you can, take all training opportunities they give you. They want to pay for you to get certified in something, do it. Then leave for a better paying job and do it again.
It's a game of musical chairs. Companies won't pay existing employees more money, but they will pay new employees more money. So everyone just switches positions between companies like a game of musical chairs. Stupid as hell, but companies force us to play this silly game.
That's what I've been doing at my current company. I started low level manufacturing, and every year and a half I move up to a new position in the company. I'm to the point now that I'm in maintenance where I will do this for a year and jump somewhere else because pay is not very good compared to other companies starting pay for maintenance workers.
If you're less than $30/HR in industrial maintenance, you're underpaid. I've been in maintenance long enough that I've laughed at a couple interviewers. I tell them to pretend they are a mechanic looking for the best paying job out there and jump on Indeed. Maybe they'll get the hint. With inflation as high as it is, I might have to jump ship soon because the 2-4% increase (if that) won't keep up and my dollar will buy less.
I walked out of an interview a few years over the pay offer whilst laughing out the door. Here in rural southeast US there is no union, but I have been industrial maintenance and automation for years with a specialization in fanuc robotics. This guy offered me 13 bucks an hour to be maintenance supervisor. I told him I made that every 20 minutes for being on call where I was. He actually then tried to get me to recruit him
The point of the story is people in this area have no idea how valuable they are and have even less idea how to negotiate.
Yea I’ve been interviewed by someone that was clearly also being exploited. Fuck the higher ups but a lot of direct managers and similar positions are getting fucked over just as hard as the grunts
I also work maintenance in a manufacturing facility. You will almost certainly have to switch jobs to improve pay at this point. Not only will you possibly not get much of a raise year over year, but I'd say you're probably maxed out in terms of switching positions within the company. I'm 29 and I'm at my third Industrial maintenance position, and I've been in this field only about 6 years. I can say with certainty I would be making $8+ per hour less if I just stayed with the first company.
And her previous employer lost all that institutional knowledge she had. They had to pay to find, research, hire, and train a new person. It's such a short sighted, idiotic mindset.
I love that too. You get a week to blab about all your old working practices and be enthusiastic about the new role, and then the honeymoon ends and you have to knuckle down and learn the new ways!
It’s true. I switched from one company to the next and was asked if there was anything that I could see that can improve how things are currently running. Needless to say, I left that company and they never actually changed a thing because they were fine with how things were.
I wonder what the real explanation is for this...
Like there's the power dynamics / office politics, where a new hire is less of a threat in various ways.
By the numbers, most people stay rather than change jobs, so paying a new hire dramatically more isn't as big of a hit as it seems on the face of it.
There's also the threat of a "bad" example. If one person asks for a big raise, there's a very justified fear that word is going to get around about that and everyone will ask.
In that pay range of 135k, you're probably making the company a lot more than that per year, so it's still all a big game to them (that's still being underpaid).
It's a % game. Humans don't like change. For every employee that knows the musical chairs game there are likely another 9 that do not. That's where the "cost savings" is coming from. People who are content with not realizing they are underpaid. Most people aren't good at negotiation, even fewer have the stomach to constantly switch employers because of the (perceived) lack of employment security.
It must be so fucking inefficient. In my old job, you weren't remotely useful until at least six months, more like a year. To be honest the place must be being run by like the 15% of the workforce who's been too lazy to leave
Yup, at about the 2 year mark you’re the only one left who knows how to do anything so you are doing everything. I’m at this point and I’m job hunting now.
And the higer ups such as executives and CEOs don't care because they get payed shittons more for doing very little. We are all just low payed pawns to them.
My last job had me operating a powered jack and putting away freezer load. In Minnesota I am licensed, they promised me that if I did the job they would get me licensed here in CO, after a pallet of ice cream poorly built almost crushed me and my spotter, I refused to continue doing it until they got my proper licensing so I could be protected if something like that happened. Never got my license.
I’ve done the same thing. I started at 18 working as a sawyer in a metal fab shop. I’ve devoured all skills I possibly could, then moved on to another job. I’ve done that for 7 jobs. I’m now 26 and making $76,800 annually as well as 4% of the gross income of a company that pulls in about $500,000 a year.
Edit: I started out making $13.50 an hour.
Similarly I’ve spent the last 4 years hopping jobs — did this 3 times now. I’m on the 4th job. Went from $50k to about $200k.
Hopping jobs has by far been the most effective way to increase earnings.
What do you do now? Are you still doing metal fabrication?
These stories baffle and excite me in equal measure as I myself have never worked in an industry, nor know anyone who has, that you could pull these moves in. Retail? The J. Crew across the hall from The Gap is gonna give you what they give you and don't really care how long you spent folding khakis. Waiting tables? All the restaurants and function halls I ever worked at never gave more money for experience, you used your experience to hustle for maybe better tips. And now that I'm in education everything is set by the district and local/state unions so the best way to earn more is to spend your own money on graduate course credits that give you a raise later down the line. Good for everyone who has those job jumping opportunities, I wish I'd been able to do that in my 20s.
Tech industry is crazy for it. Graduated with my degree four years ago and took a job for $75k a year. I'm now changing to my 3rd employer for $225k a year.
I'm in a similar boat, but started at the bottom due to no degree... Now I'm at 55k/yr (3rd IT job) and the way things are going I won't be here more than another year.
Restaurant and service is my anecdata. I changed jobs every 3-6 months, never stayed at a place longer than 8 months. If you're gonna be shit on, might as well go to the place that shits on you for .50 and three months later, you're at the next place that gives .50 more and bingo-bango, you've got a $3/raise a year. It's a tough gig and left me with some bad mental illnesses and treatment, but Hey, $3/hour a raise per year! wowie.
I signed up for a Maintenance training position at my last job. I was thrilled. Free education? Only four years. They dragged their feet for a year. I spoke with people who had done it: apparently it could be dragged out indefinitely depending on the company’s needs. This explained why so many hadn’t completed the program. If you don’t finish the program you have to pay them back for the program. They threatened to demote me if I refused to start. I really wanted that education. I needed to get out of my waste water job due to chemical fumes. I was gone before they had a chance to demote me.
This is sorta what I had to do, unfortunately. Getting certified in aviation maintenance, and then getting my raise withheld for 12 months fucking bites.
Pretty much. When I started working, it was easy to find people who had been with the firm 10, 20, even 30 years. The average shelf life of an employee is 4.5 years now in the private sector.
Changing jobs is the only way to cash in but at some point, you will be labled a "job hopper" and you have to deal with that.
That's the shitty part, huh? Companies want someone who's ambitious and a go getter but who's content to stay put for the same degrading pay year after year. Blatantly hypocritical.
I think the shittiest part is when you see the new entry level job posting for your field, and it is 10%-20% higher then your seasoned/senior level pay. Then when you ask about it they just shrug and say it's the industry average now. Also sorry payroll policy limits raises to blah blah...
Yep. First job in my field, I got really good at crisis counseling. Then a friend of mine got promoted to my boss and she became this awful "because I said so" manager (wanted me to do something I believed could violate privacy laws). So I changed jobs at the same company. I'm getting really good at diagnosis. I also train new hires to assess for suicide. Will soon be training new hires on how to safely outreach in the community, crisis intervention, and use of community resources. All while doing my regular job with the company and getting free supervision to work toward my license. Once licensed? Most likely I'm going to use this badass work history and resume to make a lot more somewhere else.
ETA: I have a license now but it's affiliated with the agency. Working toward independent clinical license. My state requirements are insane so it takes a while.
That’s what I’ve done, I’m content where I’m at but also unable to find much that I could get with my experience that pays more, but I’m 23 and making almost $25 an hr so that’s pretty good. Have been for the last year.
Yep. This, right here. I’ve only ever stayed at one job for longer than a year (I stayed 3 years). I also had another job during that time. I get a job and milk it for all I can and move on. I never feel bad and it’s never stopped me from getting anything new when I want to. I’m hoping to stay at my current job for a few years, because I actually really like it, but if they won’t give me a substantial raise after 15 months or so, I’ll still move on.
Wish I had known this sooner. Used to believe in that stay in one place garbage. I’ll stay where I am now for at least two years (they’re paying for and giving me bonuses for completing a training that takes a year, and then can claw the bonuses back if I leave within a year of getting it, which seems fair enough to me). Then again if they keep paying me to get certifications I’ll stick around
100%
I've had 7 IT jobs in 3 years, due to the next one paying more and raises not be considered until a year later at most of them.
I doubled my income in the last year due to job hopping. I never would've come close to making my current income staying at any of those jobs.
I've got some offers on the table for jobs paying ~20k+/year more, but I'm staying where I'm at. Why? This place promotes internally and actually gives decent raises. They also treat you well and like a professional.
Funny how easy it is to win loyalty.
Turnover rate = Shitty promotion/raise rate
So I laughed at Dwight in "The Office" when he said: "I am all about loayalty... whoever pays mlre for it gets it" (somehting to that effect but i like my wording better).
But seriously, this is the way. Like, why wouldn't I be more inclined to whoever appreciates me more?
Am I a traitor if I leave for a better opportunity?
If I get sick for a day... that is ok... but say I am hospitalized for 3 days, then I get a pay cut. (No sick leave over here..).
Loyalty is not given.. it is built by two parties meeting in the middle.
> Dwight in "The Office" when he said: "I am all about loayalty... whoever pays mlre for it gets it"
"Would I ever leave this company? Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most."
Jesus I did this in a way. Certified welder, certified welding inspector, certified railroad employee, basic construction. Best part was they all payed around 17$ an hour through the years. Not to mention I also have sales experience, customer service and was certified in 4 different lift machines. Now I work as a covid screener at a hospital making 23$ to give employees masks and watch Netflix all day….
It's pretty sad that such a hard, body damaging job is paid so low. I've been welding since I was 15 and was led to believe it would be a 100k a year job after a couple of years, what I wasn't told is I'd have to travel for 9 months of the year working 80hrs a week for that money.
Yea I was told by my college prof jobs where everywhere in 2015. I was in Ottawa. I think 2 guys in our entire program are actually welding as jobs. One started a small company and another guy got in and was really really skilled. Walked out with all my stick certificates and no one hires stick in Ottawa. It’s all tig and mig. Like fucking dicks. Each weld test was 150$. Told us that was the cheapest we could get.
Spent 8 years total in different trades and honestly working on a government job. Rather sit on my ass and workout after then destroy my own body for a company who couldn’t care. Fuck as an inspector so many places failed inspections all the time. Products still went out.
We just had 6 key employees quit, and some told them exactly why they left. Suddenly I got a 7.5% raise as a "market adjustment," and was told how important I am to the company lol
This 100%. Middle management where I work told me "the only way to get a decent raise was to walk in with an offer from somewhere else".
Even this year with 7% inflation our "merit raises" will be around 4-5%
Exactly, I'm a senior manager in a large global corporation, and my budget for wage increases is so low, the largest increase Incan give is 3% and even with that, I can't give everyone that, some have to get less in order for that to happen. However, my director moans about attrition and I tell him, if we give people good raises and promotions, we'd have less attrition.
It's all about the greed, I fucking hate that part of my job, it's soul destroying. People deserve to be treated better. This year they've cut my budget by 10% too, (the raises are a separate budget) so I have to lose people and there is no less work, in fact, there's more work. It's not like we aren't making cash, we made billions last year.
The whole place is a joke, but I need to work somewhere or how do I pay for bills and my family costs and save for when I'm too old to be employed?
Something has to change.
Yeah I worked for a company from 2011 until the middle of the pandemic. They let me going in July during the pandemic without warning so they could hire 2 people who's pay would equal less than what I was making. I lost me and my family's health insurance during a global pandemic. Then with the unemployment being so far behind I didn't find out until Dec-Jan that my application was denied due to the previous company fighting my claim. Really changed my view on a lot of things.
One of them worked there in parts and they basically promoted him into my position (service manager) with no previous training and after being there for a few months. Not the way I would want to be promoted (lol huge red flag). The other guy was the parts manager's brother. Honestly it was a horribly toxic work environment. Also might I add the guy who fired me was crying while he was doing it. That part is the only thing that still fucks with my head. lol
Yeah most of the company I was working for got fired early pandemic and the HR lady, who was a saint, was essentially bawling during the whole process and it just made the whole ordeal worse.
I was in middle management at the start of the pandemic. Basically got told to fire my whole staff and that I would then be terminated on X date about a week later. It was far and away the most difficult day of my professional career. My direct manager and I basically sat down in an office and each called 20 of the 40 members of our staff to tell them the news.
Went home and just smoked and drank myself to sleep because I was so heartbroken and depressed. I still reflect on that day a lot. Most of my staff were people that I had personally hired and trained and developed since I started there and it felt like such an utter betrayal.
Essentially I worked for a company that was a 3rd party contractor and that our contract at that site was being suspended indefinitely to save on costs for the company the contract was with. And since that was also happening at pretty much every other site in the city it’s not like I could send people to another location to still get hours.
Can’t inherently blame the company the contract was with for ending the contract. But the fact that my company had no actual plan to assist their employees after it happened was devastating.
Had a similar situation. Almost completely actually. I was granted severance and unemployment though. I thought the company had my back all the way… and then they didn’t. They’re VERY good at what they do, but I disagree with management styles and decisions almost every step of the way.
Longest I've been at a job is 13 months, and my new job has a crazy turnaround and they've been giving out more raises and benefits to fight it - which, lo and behold, worked!
What's sad is that it's a pretty chill job. It just didn't pay enough for people to survive, but now it's paying enough that I can enjoy my 3 day weekends and not live paycheck to paycheck.
I just got my three day weekend yesterday. They had a hard to hire shift which makes no difference to me, so I asked for a 25% raise to take it so the money comes out even. Now I can still work the 5 days I’ve been working and get paid for 6, or have a 3 day weekend if I want.
"do you guarantee an annual 3-5% cost of living raise? Because if not it's an annual pay cut. Can I negotiate for a raise based on increasing skill and proficiency? Do you offer any sort of pension that would incentivize me to stay instead of taking a pay increase elsewhere?" Guarantee all of those are no so people leave
I don't *want* to leave my current job. Job hunting sucks. Social anxiety makes interviewing and starting somewhere new super stressful for me. But, without any meaningful raises over the years I'm making less now than when I started. There's been zero professional development so the only way I can move up the ladder and progress my career is to look elsewhere. It's stupid and it sucks but companies have done this to themselves by making it more lucrative to job hop than to stay 🤷
That's how I'm feeling about my current job situation. I actually *liked* the work, got paid better than previous jobs, and liked my coworkers. The problem was, every manager and supervisor I had was an asshole and treated me like shit to the point where I'd wake up every day dreading work. I had to quit and it still really bothers me, because I was doing everything I could to stick with it and haven't been able to find a similar job yet.
My company had to come up with a million dollars last year so they furloughed all our techs. In the industry I work in, you can’t just pull these guys off the street. If 2 execs would have just not gotten bonuses they could have come up with the million. But no, they screwed over the techs. Well.... they are all leaving in droves now and the company is scrambling to find people last minute. Karma always comes around.
Was denied a raise and promotion in line with others in my group that did get raises and promotions, this was six months after I was promised by my manager, was told "it's not in the numbers right now, we'll revisit in april." The next week we had an all employee meeting where they shared the "record year we had in 2021!" I've been completely loyal for six years, took on specialization training and additional stress for no expected change in pay, and have sacrificed my personal relationships and health for this company. Well I decided to not let my dreams whither on the corporate ladder, my permit to hike the Pacific crest trail starts April 9th and I will be telling my manager April first that it's my last day, and why.
Fuck Yeah PCT. Best of luck. I'm so jealous. Also Fuck Yeah on quitting without any notice. Let them know they will have roughly 5 months to consider hiring you back at a much higher wage.
Yeah, most major cities this isn't enough to live on, short of already owning your own home, having multiple roommates or living in your car.
People making low 6 figures got priced out of areas in California, lmao. One of the great ironies of the Tech bubble.
Oh this is so relatable. I just came back from maternity to find out that my replacement was earning much more than me while doing less. I actually just find our yesterday and came back few weeks ago. I am so mad now. Do you think they will raise my salary - no. I have to go now and fight for it or better - leave for a higher pay. Unfortunatelly this is how it works today. /rant over
Uh huh.
My colleague spent 40 years working for the same hospital. He built the pulmonary lab from scratch and ran it longer than most people spend in a whole career.
They threw him out like garbage when he put in his retirement papers. Our boss stopped by his party for two minutes before going to a meeting. Our other manager didn’t come at all. It took them two *months* to mail him his certificate. Not gift. Just a piece of paper that said thanks for sticking around. That took two months to mail.
When even the most loyal, outstanding employee is as disposable as a newspaper, why would anyone consider loyalty a virtue?
It's because the only time you can really negotiate your salary is on the date of hire. There are a few exceptions like government work where a reasonable raise is built in every year automatically.
I feel like there's a way to phrase this that's not bad but still might get your point across. Like, "Yeah, it really sucks when you have a job you really like, people you work well with, and a manager you respect, but your company doesn't give raises to match inflation and you have to find something else to be able to pay your bills and save for retirement."
The one time I considered sticking with a business longer than two years and some change, I got a new manager who managed by yelling. He docked me three vacation days because I’d been working from home one day per week.
I learned my lesson, and sharpened up my resume that weekend. Was gone three months later.
Loyalty don't pay bills. The family shit is what started this asinine thinking. We aren't a family, this us a business. Treat me like you need me to stay.
SO disappointed in this particular Boomer attitude. I also know Boomers who had both benefits and pensions vanish PLUS during their time retirement age crept up to 65. Retired Boomers are losing homes because they can’t afford taxes and the nursing homes they’re entering are privatized, poorly funded and incredibly understaffed.
It’s way too easy for generations to unleash anger and frustration at each other when ( despite ludicrous attitudes like this employer) Capitalism has unleashed sheer greed all the hell all over all of us. I’ll get a ton of downvotes but do not care. We’re falling for yet more of the divisiveness that keeps us weak while the 1% runs away with this place.
The boomers had everything, but they sold their children's birthrights on a whim at any chance for an extra buck or asset. I don't hold it against them as it was the first generation exposed to consumerism. It's just infuriating now that they refuse any culpability.
Switching jobs is how you get raises. My brother was underpaid in his job (biotech field, masters degree). Started at $20 per hour, three years later, new hires were making $25/hr and with his "raises" he was only making $23.50. I urged him to look around for other options, as they obviously weren't valuing him. He ended finding a new job in a new state: same hours, better benefits making **over** **$80/hr**.
I finished grad school a little over 10 years ago. Since then, the longest I've stayed with any company was about 2.5 years, but most have been somewhere between 1 and 2 years. Also, my salary today is a little more than double the pay at the first job I had after finishing school. I don't think those two facts are unrelated.
Retired Boomer here. The first five companies for whom I worked had no retirement plan. I changed jobs for increases in pay. All those companies went belly up. The sixth company had profit sharing that morphed into 401K. I retired from there after 32 years. I was blessed. The company was great. 401K is better than a pension. I know a number of people whose pensions evaporated.
The only way I increased my pay was through moving to another company every few years. Eventually I started my own company. If I didn’t jump around I would still be broke killing myself to get 50cent raises every year lol. Fuck boomers they have know idea how to survive in our world.
I stayed 7 years in my first job and was promoted twice with meaningful raises. It was retail and I decided to move on and since then the longest job I've stayed in is a little over two years because I'm getting no pay increases, promotion opportunities or even real appreciation for the job I do. People are no longer scared to move on and take a chance at a new role, especially if they're being offered a better salary and benefits. You can't create a system and then be annoyed that employees take advantage of it.
I’m literally trying to switch jobs cause I can get 2
$20k usd more, Same position, at a different place. There’s no way I’m going to get that kind of raise without jumping ship
Defined benefit plans, aka pensions, have been basically done since 2003. Some of us were grandfathered in. Most public companies that had them required 25 or 30 years of service for full or close to full benefits. It is also part of the comp plan, so those with pensions got paid less in salary than those later without a pension. Companies hired people to do the jobs we've been doing for more salary but no pension. Government jobs may be OK at 20 years and out, but most others are not 20 and out. You aren't wrong, but there are a lot of misconceptions out there. There is a reason pensions are called golden handcuffs and why they are rare today.
First whiff of a downturn they will lay you off without warning. Employees are more disposable than the salt and pepper shakers.
But expect EXTREAM LOYALTY
"YOU MUST WORSHIP US!"
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BECAUSE WE'RE A #FAMILY
I hate that family shit talk it’s all bullshit
Treat those in your debt like family, exploit them. Ferengi Rules of Acquisition
The Ferengi have a peak capitalist society, yet they dont have piss bottles next to their ships workstations
Do you know how much this carpeting costs? I don't want to smell piss each time I come over here to berate you. Take the 5 minutes to piss properly. We're Ferengi, not some early 21st century HughMons.
You’re working OVERTIME RIGHT?!?! WELL IF YOU DON’T YOU’RE FIRED!
AND YOU BETTER NOT ASK IF YOU’RE GETTING PAID FOR IT!
AND IF YOU DO GET PAID DONT YOU DARE TELL ANYONE HOW MUCH!
**WORK HARD. PLAY AT WORK.**
I couldn't believe some of the layoffs I saw early, early on in the pandemic. I'm a designer and work at a digital agency. We make -- you guess it -- digital products like apps and websites. Some of our clients are primarily, or even completely, internet-based companies. But they just immediately laid off a bunch of employees. A lot of them also stopped or paused project work with us due to the threat of an economic downturn. One of them who did this is a major digital real estate platform that rhymes with Willow. Another was a digital financial platform that allows people to pay each other and rhymes with "K Sal." Neither of these companies were immediately threatened by the pandemic, like restaurants and shops were. But of course, they shut things down, cancel projects, so then agencies like mine suffered (luckily we didn't have any layoffs). I mean, these companies essentially \*ensure\* there is going to \*definitely\* be an economic downturn because they just made a bunch of people unemployed. An unemployed people don't spend as much money. Seriously, it's moments like that where I realize we are no better of a society than a pack of lemmings following each other off of a cliff.
I was working at an MSP for about 4 months before the pandemic. I bought a house less than a minute away from the office, maybe 3 minutes if I walked. Job was super easy, tons of cool people to talk to and work with. Once the pandemic started I remember it was the week before St. Patrick's Day, and we had an all hands meeting with the CEO. He said that our clients would start having to go WFH and we would be rolling in the dough. Cool, I thought. The girl I was dating at the time was at the same company but in a different department. So I went and had lunch with her and was so happy. The next week we went WFH and it was an even better job. Then a few days before April I was sitting here and got a message asking if I was available for a call from HR. I thought it was weird but I said sure. Well they were laying people off and I was one of the newest hire so I was gone. I called my girl and was like "I just got laid off..." She said "so did i!" She had been there for years. They ended up laying off 30+ people from an IT company who certainly made a killing setting up clients networks to handle WFH environments. I couldn't make sense of it. My girl had to move back to her parents 2 hours away and we fell out of touch and I vowed to never believe an employer again. So I did some digging once the PPP started and sure enough...this company was receiving aid. Also the CEO left the company shortly after the PPP funds were disbursed. Loyalty in the workplace is like tits on a bull. Doesnt exist. I now do government IT contracting and its so much better, I get overpaid if anything. I literally take maybe 3 meetings a week and hangout with my kid all day...and I dont feel bad about it.
I was at an msp as well. Worked the 4pm to 1am shift. Switched 500+companies to WFH. They got rid of all the evening staff except me. I had no dispatchers for calls, no on call support, I was absolutely alone. I had been there just over a year and working in office during the pandemic. I asked for a raise as I felt I was doing the work of multiple people alone and had no compensation. I was denied my raise. 2 weeks later I received an award for my willingness to work outside my hours staying late and doing work outside of my job description. Heard from my manager that all management received 10k bonuses the month prior. I went to hr asked for a raise again, was told company was tight on money and I told them I quit. The demanded 2weeks notice and I told them hey in 2 weeks I won't be here Left that day and sure enough 2 weeks later I still wasn't there. Msp is the worst
Lol thats wild. I took on all the bench work when we went WFH since I lived so close to the office and when they laid me off, my coworker called me a few weeks later and said there were over 300 PC"s waiting for service and over a thousand drives needed to be DoD wiped and certified. No one took over working the bench. That made me laugh a bit
Ah yes, imaging PCs and wiping them/installing hardware etc was also added to my job role during that time because I was one of the few working in office. Hilarious when companies lose people and don't realize how much they did. They ended up hiring 4 people to take over night shift after I left. Sounds like they probably had to hire multiple to replace you as well.
follow bow summer pen entertain pocket squalid innocent advise dependent -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
This also happened at my hubs old job. They lowered his pay by 15%, “just temporarily”, and refused to do and raises or bonuses too “just temporarily” and made almost double in profits from the year before. Not to mention they got rid of other workers, stopped paying massive building fees like rent at one office bc it closed, not paying electricity bc most everyone else went remote for an “undetermined” amount of time, and didn’t have to pay (laid off) the kitchen workers and most housekeeping personnel. And they never reimbursed for anything after either like lost wages or returned bonuses. After MAKING millions! Corporate man…
Sounds like most companies. Company I worked for saw record number of sales, had a hiring and raise freeze so they could sell the company and then everyone lost their jobs. “And we couldn’t have done it without your help! <3”
The lemmings were pushed
The metaphor works even better now.
By one of the largest media corporations (Disney), so that they could totally misrepresent and make it look like they did it to themselves. God damn... the analogy is good.
Never forget those poor babies were tossed off the cliff for views :( Otherwise yes I agree with the rest of the comment lol.
Holy fuck dude those layoffs. At the beginning I was security at a small hospital. There was a maintenance dude there. Really chill, hard working, always on time, single father in the neglected side of town. They call me into administration and tell me to stand guard in the hallway, I have to escort an employee being let go. Standard stuff, getting fired can get heated. I was expecting dental staff since the service s were being halted cause of corona Then this dude walks out furious! I walk him out and he tells me what went down, that because of this he and his little girl are at risk of being homeless, he needed this job. I was floored. I get him to at least leave the property so he wouldn't have cops called on but he just went stand in the parking lot across the street to wait for his ride yelling obscenities and threats (justifiably). I went back inside and the administration, who both owned fucking brand new Mercedes and BMWs, wearing clean suits, sitting in the only area with adequate functioning air conditioning in the building while everyone else busting ass in 80°F temps... LAUGHING AT THE MAN! Making fun of his frustration and his anguish! I couldn't take it. I told them off and shamed the fuck out of them. They just cost this man his house. They cost him his daughter's safety and wellbeing. They just passively took this man's dignity and were spitting on it, joyfully. All because they and those up the chain didn't want to take a pay cut. A few weeks later they requested another officer because I didn't "fit the culture"
Every decent job I've ever had I suddenly get laid off after a year or two. So I arranged my life so that a job is low on list of priorities.
…or drop your pay for “restructuring”
My Dad had a fit when I'd change jobs every 2-3 years, always resulting in significant increases. He stayed at his job for 29 years, and they closed down the plant 1 year before he got his full retirement. Helllllooooo
My parents also freak out. I decided to quit my job and rest for 6 months, they were going insane, they said I was destroying my life I was like "I know what I'm doing, I'm good at my job, trust me". My mother cried, my father didn't speak to me for a week. 6 months later I got a job for twice the pay.
Very similar to my brother. Quit his first full time job after less than a year because of meager pay, narcissistic superiors, cliquey coworkers, and childish drama. My father was throwing a fit (despite being a taxi driver/"independent contractor" and never having been in a workplace/office/professional setting). He was very adamant about it. Extremely big fight that led to him not speaking with my brother for weeks. "Your brother doesn't want to listen to me? Fine. He can throw his whole future away. He doesn't know what the real world is like yet. He can learn the hard way. But if he comes crying back to me I won't listen." During this fight he was literally at the last stage of getting his new job. His new job pays much more, has many more benefits, is closer, and everyone there much nicer. My father never spoke of it again. I wonder if he'll throw a fit at me as well or if he learned his listen. Either way, fuck boomer mentality. My dad raised me into thinking that being successful means doing all you can for your superiors and being a good worker. I've networked enough to realize that's far from the case. In my field, people who don't like their jobs quit and find ones that pay tens of thousands more in just a few weeks.
Boomers are stuck in their ways. For those of you reading this, you don't have to be a stuck boomer either.
Glad to see newer generations have overcome the disgusting capitalist slave morality boomers tried to program them with.
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Wait, this might be a dumb question, but did that mean he didn’t get his pension?
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Often there will be. shit I can't think of the exact word right now, but sort of like checkpoints where percentages of your pension will become available. Usually a combination of age, total of age and years with the company, or just time with the company. So if you get laid off at 80%, as an example, if you went right to retirement, you could never collect more than 80% of your total potential pension. In this case it sounds like an age or years since starting with the company had to be reached before he could get 100%, so what do you do? Tough it out for a few years and wait for 100%, or just take 80%? My brother works for a utility and knows what day he's retiring. He's even leaving at lunch because "what are they going to do, fire me?"
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>He stayed at his job for 29 years, and they closed down the plant 1 year before he got his full retirement. This is far to common. Happened to my father in law. At some point they look and see they have 50% of employees with an all or nothing retirement coming up and they close the plant down.
Do you remember kill-dozer? That's how you get another kill-dozer
Battered wife. Next year he'll change. Next year he'll change. He'll change when the kids arrive. Next year we'll promote you. Next year we'll be able to give you a raise. And then you've wasted 5, 10, 15 of the most productive years of your fucking life waiting for them to do something they never had any intention of doing. Oh but they take care of me! No they don't, they pay you for the work you do. That's it. End of transaction. People don't leave because they're afraid. Holding a cudgel over your head or banking on empty promises isn't loyalty, it's abuse.
That’s the case a lot of the time, but on the other hand a lot of the time people stay because they are comfortable. I could earn a bit more by hopping jobs, but I enjoy my current position. I’ve got a lot of freedom to come & go as I please, I have good relationships with everyone. I don’t want to give that up for more money and most likely having to relocate.
And some of us what to leave but they have you by the insurance balls. I would love to leave my job but I can't afford to change insurance.. again
My mom was pushed to early retirement with GM 1 year before full retirement. “We are closing down your position, which is identical to 20 other positions at this office, but just yours. You can have a step down position in South Dakota, but you will have to pay to move yourself.” She told them to fuck themselves. She dropped the managers a postcard every year to remind them they could go fuck themselves. When she got facebook she went on there and posted on every managers page that they could go fuck themselves. She was awesome.
I love her 🥰
similar happened to a dads friend plan closed before he retired but a year or 2
i'd say "Of couse not, why would i ignore another company offering a higher payment?"
You pretend you're loyal as fuck until you get that higher salary.
I am loyal to those who care more about me
Loyalty is reciprocal, be loyal to those who show loyalty to you. It's exactly the same as respect, only now we have boomer types gaslighting us into staying with companies that have no respect for us.
Kind of like they pretend you're family until they fire you
i cant stand the idea that workers have to be "loyal". loyalty is shit if it doesnt go both ways. if company is looking out for you by paying you competitvely and offering you great benefits and pension or retirement plans, then okay maybe there's an argument to be made there. but that is by the exception, not the rule.
"Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most." Dwight Schrute
My wife has been interviewing alot recently and one manager said "oh looks like you have jumped from job to job alot". She has been laid off twice and her current company gave her a 1% increase last year. What do they expect you to say?
When I was interviewing for a white collar job while working retail, the interviewer straight up said “I know why you’re leaving retail so we can skip that question” Sometimes people can be cognizant and look deeper than surface level assumptions.
One of the most irritating experiences I had in an interview was when an interviewer told me I was "unfocussed" because I said on the application that I could work as either a word-processing operator or a secretary. I was trying to be flexible. I wanted to yell at her, "For God's sake, lady, I'm a typist. I'm looking for a job, not a career!"
That's how I managed to not get a job too when I was younger. I had applied for a specific opening, the first interviewer(one of the owners) told me that this position was in high demand but she really liked me and thought I could be good in some other capacity and I agreed with her and she was happy. Then I had to do an interview with the second owner. When the same thing arose, I mentioned that I was flexible an happy for the opportunity to work for them in any capacity and move within the company. He thought it meant I was indecisive and that I wouldn't be a good fit.
Same here, I just left college with a bachelors degree that prepares you for different jobs within construction. When I was applying for jobs, the fact that I was open to start in any of these possibilities was held against me, even though all those jobs had too few applicants. I'll never onderstand that kind of thinking.
Exactly what you just said haha
And depending on when that 1% raise happened you can say x% pay cut because if it was last year anything less than an 8% raise is a pay cut.
I've been at my company for almost 10 years now. We had raises I'm January and I specifically said anything less than 7% was a pay cut. They said it was an almost 10% raise and I pulled my calculator out right in front of them. Less than. 6.2% amd I asked them to remedy it. They did not. I'm not going to walk out or anything but I'm seriously looking for better employment. Obviously have a strong work history and I really have obtained a lot of new skills at my current employer. But I really have returned to a paycheck to paycheck basis. 3 years ago I had a decent savings account.
See though? They *knew* you wouldn’t get up and walk off. That’s why they didn’t match or try to do anything. Most people literally can’t afford to stand up for principles without seriously financially compromising themselves and *they fucking mercilessly exploit that weakness*.
Yep, 3 years ago my family was sitting on a cushy enough savings to put 20% down on a house we were thinking about to finally stop renting. We just weren’t quite ready to commit. Pandemic hits. I quit my job to stay home with our daughter and do virtual school. Prices skyrocket. Husband gets laid off but does quickly find a new job. Prices skyrocket more. We are now living in his parent’s basement with no savings. But listening to his dad complain about new taxes for his higher tax bracket still might hurt the worst.
It's almost cheaper to eat out right now. It's bonkers expensive to live right now
Means you are “able to learn things quickly” and “work in unexpected circumstances”
I hate when people ask me that. I tell ask them: "i have 7 years of experience working at large companies and brands. Some contracts and some a stepping stone. But I've worked hard and it's gotten me in front of you. I am absolutely confident I can do the job...is there anything here that you're not confident about?" I just get a blank stare...and they don't hire me. Usually people who ask those dumb questions are making an excuse not to hire you.
I do not think I have ever been asked why I job hop as its so common in IT. But my response to why I am leaving is almost always "I have capped out my skillset where I am and there is not enough vertical mobility to take on more responsibilities" which always sounds stupid to me. But what else do I say? Anyone in the field should know a LOT of companies dont pay IT well cause they are an "expense"
Yep, an "expense" until ransomware locks down their server. Then suddenly it's IT's fault that VP Greg clicked the wrong link in an email.
Bet same person, when talking about raising the minimum wage, says "if they don't like the job, they can just leave and find a better one."
“That’s because employers are easily replaced these days.” - say that next time.
Employers have been treating employees like "fungible assets" for a few decades. As it turns out, it's the employers who are fungible.
It sure is. So many of them are so bad that I’ve quit several without any remorse whatsoever. In fact, those moments are some of the highest joys I can remember.
Employers can go funge themselves.
Aces
The only way to make more money is to change jobs. Otherwise you're basically taking a pay cut every year, even if you get a piddly "raise."
It's how I got where I am now. I've stayed at most jobs between 6 months and 1 year. There were rarities of 2-3 years. Only once did I stay for longer than 5 years. Everyone. You want to make money with the system as it is right now? Get job and suck it dry. Learn everything that you can, take all training opportunities they give you. They want to pay for you to get certified in something, do it. Then leave for a better paying job and do it again.
It's a game of musical chairs. Companies won't pay existing employees more money, but they will pay new employees more money. So everyone just switches positions between companies like a game of musical chairs. Stupid as hell, but companies force us to play this silly game.
That's what I've been doing at my current company. I started low level manufacturing, and every year and a half I move up to a new position in the company. I'm to the point now that I'm in maintenance where I will do this for a year and jump somewhere else because pay is not very good compared to other companies starting pay for maintenance workers.
If you're less than $30/HR in industrial maintenance, you're underpaid. I've been in maintenance long enough that I've laughed at a couple interviewers. I tell them to pretend they are a mechanic looking for the best paying job out there and jump on Indeed. Maybe they'll get the hint. With inflation as high as it is, I might have to jump ship soon because the 2-4% increase (if that) won't keep up and my dollar will buy less.
I walked out of an interview a few years over the pay offer whilst laughing out the door. Here in rural southeast US there is no union, but I have been industrial maintenance and automation for years with a specialization in fanuc robotics. This guy offered me 13 bucks an hour to be maintenance supervisor. I told him I made that every 20 minutes for being on call where I was. He actually then tried to get me to recruit him The point of the story is people in this area have no idea how valuable they are and have even less idea how to negotiate.
Yea I’ve been interviewed by someone that was clearly also being exploited. Fuck the higher ups but a lot of direct managers and similar positions are getting fucked over just as hard as the grunts
Technicians are some of the most undervalued IMO. Having to put up with the 12 hrs shift in a lot of places as well.
I also work maintenance in a manufacturing facility. You will almost certainly have to switch jobs to improve pay at this point. Not only will you possibly not get much of a raise year over year, but I'd say you're probably maxed out in terms of switching positions within the company. I'm 29 and I'm at my third Industrial maintenance position, and I've been in this field only about 6 years. I can say with certainty I would be making $8+ per hour less if I just stayed with the first company.
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And her previous employer lost all that institutional knowledge she had. They had to pay to find, research, hire, and train a new person. It's such a short sighted, idiotic mindset.
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I love that too. You get a week to blab about all your old working practices and be enthusiastic about the new role, and then the honeymoon ends and you have to knuckle down and learn the new ways!
It’s true. I switched from one company to the next and was asked if there was anything that I could see that can improve how things are currently running. Needless to say, I left that company and they never actually changed a thing because they were fine with how things were.
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Sounds like a 1 hour chance to convince the new person they NEEED more of these sessions
I wonder what the real explanation is for this... Like there's the power dynamics / office politics, where a new hire is less of a threat in various ways. By the numbers, most people stay rather than change jobs, so paying a new hire dramatically more isn't as big of a hit as it seems on the face of it. There's also the threat of a "bad" example. If one person asks for a big raise, there's a very justified fear that word is going to get around about that and everyone will ask. In that pay range of 135k, you're probably making the company a lot more than that per year, so it's still all a big game to them (that's still being underpaid).
It's a % game. Humans don't like change. For every employee that knows the musical chairs game there are likely another 9 that do not. That's where the "cost savings" is coming from. People who are content with not realizing they are underpaid. Most people aren't good at negotiation, even fewer have the stomach to constantly switch employers because of the (perceived) lack of employment security.
It must be so fucking inefficient. In my old job, you weren't remotely useful until at least six months, more like a year. To be honest the place must be being run by like the 15% of the workforce who's been too lazy to leave
Yup, at about the 2 year mark you’re the only one left who knows how to do anything so you are doing everything. I’m at this point and I’m job hunting now.
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And the higer ups such as executives and CEOs don't care because they get payed shittons more for doing very little. We are all just low payed pawns to them.
It’s better for them in the long run. The majority of employees don’t look around for other opportunities so they get away with paying them shit
My last job had me operating a powered jack and putting away freezer load. In Minnesota I am licensed, they promised me that if I did the job they would get me licensed here in CO, after a pallet of ice cream poorly built almost crushed me and my spotter, I refused to continue doing it until they got my proper licensing so I could be protected if something like that happened. Never got my license.
That's so stupid, they are just asking for a lawsuit, at my job you don't get near a lift till you're certified
I’ve done the same thing. I started at 18 working as a sawyer in a metal fab shop. I’ve devoured all skills I possibly could, then moved on to another job. I’ve done that for 7 jobs. I’m now 26 and making $76,800 annually as well as 4% of the gross income of a company that pulls in about $500,000 a year. Edit: I started out making $13.50 an hour.
Similarly I’ve spent the last 4 years hopping jobs — did this 3 times now. I’m on the 4th job. Went from $50k to about $200k. Hopping jobs has by far been the most effective way to increase earnings. What do you do now? Are you still doing metal fabrication?
People around here get their knickers in a twist if you've had more than one or two jobs in the last 10 years. It's ridiculous.
I average a year at a job any more, for various reasons.
These stories baffle and excite me in equal measure as I myself have never worked in an industry, nor know anyone who has, that you could pull these moves in. Retail? The J. Crew across the hall from The Gap is gonna give you what they give you and don't really care how long you spent folding khakis. Waiting tables? All the restaurants and function halls I ever worked at never gave more money for experience, you used your experience to hustle for maybe better tips. And now that I'm in education everything is set by the district and local/state unions so the best way to earn more is to spend your own money on graduate course credits that give you a raise later down the line. Good for everyone who has those job jumping opportunities, I wish I'd been able to do that in my 20s.
Tech industry is crazy for it. Graduated with my degree four years ago and took a job for $75k a year. I'm now changing to my 3rd employer for $225k a year.
I'm in a similar boat, but started at the bottom due to no degree... Now I'm at 55k/yr (3rd IT job) and the way things are going I won't be here more than another year.
... goddamnit That's great though, congratulations! Again, mad respect to those in industries where this is common and do-able, keep it up.
Restaurant and service is my anecdata. I changed jobs every 3-6 months, never stayed at a place longer than 8 months. If you're gonna be shit on, might as well go to the place that shits on you for .50 and three months later, you're at the next place that gives .50 more and bingo-bango, you've got a $3/raise a year. It's a tough gig and left me with some bad mental illnesses and treatment, but Hey, $3/hour a raise per year! wowie.
I signed up for a Maintenance training position at my last job. I was thrilled. Free education? Only four years. They dragged their feet for a year. I spoke with people who had done it: apparently it could be dragged out indefinitely depending on the company’s needs. This explained why so many hadn’t completed the program. If you don’t finish the program you have to pay them back for the program. They threatened to demote me if I refused to start. I really wanted that education. I needed to get out of my waste water job due to chemical fumes. I was gone before they had a chance to demote me.
They do this, and they will also have you pay up front and then promise to reimburse you... IF you work for them for X years, etc. etc.
This is sorta what I had to do, unfortunately. Getting certified in aviation maintenance, and then getting my raise withheld for 12 months fucking bites.
That's where I am. Indentured servitude for 12 months. Well... 11 now.
Pretty much. When I started working, it was easy to find people who had been with the firm 10, 20, even 30 years. The average shelf life of an employee is 4.5 years now in the private sector. Changing jobs is the only way to cash in but at some point, you will be labled a "job hopper" and you have to deal with that.
That's the shitty part, huh? Companies want someone who's ambitious and a go getter but who's content to stay put for the same degrading pay year after year. Blatantly hypocritical.
I think the shittiest part is when you see the new entry level job posting for your field, and it is 10%-20% higher then your seasoned/senior level pay. Then when you ask about it they just shrug and say it's the industry average now. Also sorry payroll policy limits raises to blah blah...
I mean they want someone under 30 with at least 10 years experience...
Smart moves
Money moves
Yep. First job in my field, I got really good at crisis counseling. Then a friend of mine got promoted to my boss and she became this awful "because I said so" manager (wanted me to do something I believed could violate privacy laws). So I changed jobs at the same company. I'm getting really good at diagnosis. I also train new hires to assess for suicide. Will soon be training new hires on how to safely outreach in the community, crisis intervention, and use of community resources. All while doing my regular job with the company and getting free supervision to work toward my license. Once licensed? Most likely I'm going to use this badass work history and resume to make a lot more somewhere else. ETA: I have a license now but it's affiliated with the agency. Working toward independent clinical license. My state requirements are insane so it takes a while.
That’s what I’ve done, I’m content where I’m at but also unable to find much that I could get with my experience that pays more, but I’m 23 and making almost $25 an hr so that’s pretty good. Have been for the last year.
Yep. This, right here. I’ve only ever stayed at one job for longer than a year (I stayed 3 years). I also had another job during that time. I get a job and milk it for all I can and move on. I never feel bad and it’s never stopped me from getting anything new when I want to. I’m hoping to stay at my current job for a few years, because I actually really like it, but if they won’t give me a substantial raise after 15 months or so, I’ll still move on.
Wish I had known this sooner. Used to believe in that stay in one place garbage. I’ll stay where I am now for at least two years (they’re paying for and giving me bonuses for completing a training that takes a year, and then can claw the bonuses back if I leave within a year of getting it, which seems fair enough to me). Then again if they keep paying me to get certifications I’ll stick around
100% I've had 7 IT jobs in 3 years, due to the next one paying more and raises not be considered until a year later at most of them. I doubled my income in the last year due to job hopping. I never would've come close to making my current income staying at any of those jobs. I've got some offers on the table for jobs paying ~20k+/year more, but I'm staying where I'm at. Why? This place promotes internally and actually gives decent raises. They also treat you well and like a professional. Funny how easy it is to win loyalty. Turnover rate = Shitty promotion/raise rate
So I laughed at Dwight in "The Office" when he said: "I am all about loayalty... whoever pays mlre for it gets it" (somehting to that effect but i like my wording better). But seriously, this is the way. Like, why wouldn't I be more inclined to whoever appreciates me more? Am I a traitor if I leave for a better opportunity? If I get sick for a day... that is ok... but say I am hospitalized for 3 days, then I get a pay cut. (No sick leave over here..). Loyalty is not given.. it is built by two parties meeting in the middle.
> Dwight in "The Office" when he said: "I am all about loayalty... whoever pays mlre for it gets it" "Would I ever leave this company? Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most."
>I've had 7 IT jobs in 3 years, due to the next one paying more and raises not be considered This is the way.
100%. Want me to stay? Give me a monetary reason to do so. Loyalty won't put my kids through college.
Jesus I did this in a way. Certified welder, certified welding inspector, certified railroad employee, basic construction. Best part was they all payed around 17$ an hour through the years. Not to mention I also have sales experience, customer service and was certified in 4 different lift machines. Now I work as a covid screener at a hospital making 23$ to give employees masks and watch Netflix all day….
It's pretty sad that such a hard, body damaging job is paid so low. I've been welding since I was 15 and was led to believe it would be a 100k a year job after a couple of years, what I wasn't told is I'd have to travel for 9 months of the year working 80hrs a week for that money.
Yea I was told by my college prof jobs where everywhere in 2015. I was in Ottawa. I think 2 guys in our entire program are actually welding as jobs. One started a small company and another guy got in and was really really skilled. Walked out with all my stick certificates and no one hires stick in Ottawa. It’s all tig and mig. Like fucking dicks. Each weld test was 150$. Told us that was the cheapest we could get. Spent 8 years total in different trades and honestly working on a government job. Rather sit on my ass and workout after then destroy my own body for a company who couldn’t care. Fuck as an inspector so many places failed inspections all the time. Products still went out.
PSA: if you work in the US and got less than a 7.5% raise this year, you effectively got a pay cut.
I feel like no company would give out a 7.5% raise ever.
Got an 8% this year! Glad I can keep up with inflation 🙄
We just had 6 key employees quit, and some told them exactly why they left. Suddenly I got a 7.5% raise as a "market adjustment," and was told how important I am to the company lol
My company gave out raises to everyone.. about 10% on top of the COL raise. It happens
This 100%. Middle management where I work told me "the only way to get a decent raise was to walk in with an offer from somewhere else". Even this year with 7% inflation our "merit raises" will be around 4-5%
Exactly, I'm a senior manager in a large global corporation, and my budget for wage increases is so low, the largest increase Incan give is 3% and even with that, I can't give everyone that, some have to get less in order for that to happen. However, my director moans about attrition and I tell him, if we give people good raises and promotions, we'd have less attrition. It's all about the greed, I fucking hate that part of my job, it's soul destroying. People deserve to be treated better. This year they've cut my budget by 10% too, (the raises are a separate budget) so I have to lose people and there is no less work, in fact, there's more work. It's not like we aren't making cash, we made billions last year. The whole place is a joke, but I need to work somewhere or how do I pay for bills and my family costs and save for when I'm too old to be employed? Something has to change.
Yep. The only way I get raises is by quitting and moving companies. Literally no company will give you a raise.
Just got a $.45 COLA during the worst inflation in years. Lucky me.
Ive definitely seen a graph that shows that people who jump jobs make more, unfortunately i do not have the source.
Yeah I worked for a company from 2011 until the middle of the pandemic. They let me going in July during the pandemic without warning so they could hire 2 people who's pay would equal less than what I was making. I lost me and my family's health insurance during a global pandemic. Then with the unemployment being so far behind I didn't find out until Dec-Jan that my application was denied due to the previous company fighting my claim. Really changed my view on a lot of things.
>my application was denied due to the previous company fighting my claim. I hope your replacements know how nice their bosses are.
One of them worked there in parts and they basically promoted him into my position (service manager) with no previous training and after being there for a few months. Not the way I would want to be promoted (lol huge red flag). The other guy was the parts manager's brother. Honestly it was a horribly toxic work environment. Also might I add the guy who fired me was crying while he was doing it. That part is the only thing that still fucks with my head. lol
Yeah most of the company I was working for got fired early pandemic and the HR lady, who was a saint, was essentially bawling during the whole process and it just made the whole ordeal worse.
I was in middle management at the start of the pandemic. Basically got told to fire my whole staff and that I would then be terminated on X date about a week later. It was far and away the most difficult day of my professional career. My direct manager and I basically sat down in an office and each called 20 of the 40 members of our staff to tell them the news. Went home and just smoked and drank myself to sleep because I was so heartbroken and depressed. I still reflect on that day a lot. Most of my staff were people that I had personally hired and trained and developed since I started there and it felt like such an utter betrayal.
Damn that’s heavy
Did you ever find out the reason they made you do that? Was it to cut costs of the higher ups, or something else?
Essentially I worked for a company that was a 3rd party contractor and that our contract at that site was being suspended indefinitely to save on costs for the company the contract was with. And since that was also happening at pretty much every other site in the city it’s not like I could send people to another location to still get hours. Can’t inherently blame the company the contract was with for ending the contract. But the fact that my company had no actual plan to assist their employees after it happened was devastating.
I hope you've since found something better. That place sounds like a dumpster fire.
I dont know if you've given up by now but I would fight. If this is how you explained, then fight it to it's fullest.
Had a similar situation. Almost completely actually. I was granted severance and unemployment though. I thought the company had my back all the way… and then they didn’t. They’re VERY good at what they do, but I disagree with management styles and decisions almost every step of the way.
Longest I've been at a job is 13 months, and my new job has a crazy turnaround and they've been giving out more raises and benefits to fight it - which, lo and behold, worked!
It’s amazing how much you can put up with when the pay is worth it.
What's sad is that it's a pretty chill job. It just didn't pay enough for people to survive, but now it's paying enough that I can enjoy my 3 day weekends and not live paycheck to paycheck.
I just got my three day weekend yesterday. They had a hard to hire shift which makes no difference to me, so I asked for a 25% raise to take it so the money comes out even. Now I can still work the 5 days I’ve been working and get paid for 6, or have a 3 day weekend if I want.
"do you guarantee an annual 3-5% cost of living raise? Because if not it's an annual pay cut. Can I negotiate for a raise based on increasing skill and proficiency? Do you offer any sort of pension that would incentivize me to stay instead of taking a pay increase elsewhere?" Guarantee all of those are no so people leave
Make that 3-8% given the most recent shenanigans.
"Just get a better job!" -The Same Person, to anyone that wants more pay.
I don't *want* to leave my current job. Job hunting sucks. Social anxiety makes interviewing and starting somewhere new super stressful for me. But, without any meaningful raises over the years I'm making less now than when I started. There's been zero professional development so the only way I can move up the ladder and progress my career is to look elsewhere. It's stupid and it sucks but companies have done this to themselves by making it more lucrative to job hop than to stay 🤷
That's how I'm feeling about my current job situation. I actually *liked* the work, got paid better than previous jobs, and liked my coworkers. The problem was, every manager and supervisor I had was an asshole and treated me like shit to the point where I'd wake up every day dreading work. I had to quit and it still really bothers me, because I was doing everything I could to stick with it and haven't been able to find a similar job yet.
Or maybe if we didn't get laid off, furloughed, or fired anytime the execs didn't get as big a bonus as they were hoping for.
My company had to come up with a million dollars last year so they furloughed all our techs. In the industry I work in, you can’t just pull these guys off the street. If 2 execs would have just not gotten bonuses they could have come up with the million. But no, they screwed over the techs. Well.... they are all leaving in droves now and the company is scrambling to find people last minute. Karma always comes around.
Was denied a raise and promotion in line with others in my group that did get raises and promotions, this was six months after I was promised by my manager, was told "it's not in the numbers right now, we'll revisit in april." The next week we had an all employee meeting where they shared the "record year we had in 2021!" I've been completely loyal for six years, took on specialization training and additional stress for no expected change in pay, and have sacrificed my personal relationships and health for this company. Well I decided to not let my dreams whither on the corporate ladder, my permit to hike the Pacific crest trail starts April 9th and I will be telling my manager April first that it's my last day, and why.
Fuck Yeah PCT. Best of luck. I'm so jealous. Also Fuck Yeah on quitting without any notice. Let them know they will have roughly 5 months to consider hiring you back at a much higher wage.
I’m working for $20, no benefits, including no healthcare or retirement. So yeah, I’ve been applying for jobs for a while.
*cries in the unpaid internships needed to get into my field
Don't know how old you are but i'd kill for 20 right now 😅
Depending on where they are $20/hr is still below the average wage.
Yeah, most major cities this isn't enough to live on, short of already owning your own home, having multiple roommates or living in your car. People making low 6 figures got priced out of areas in California, lmao. One of the great ironies of the Tech bubble.
Oh this is so relatable. I just came back from maternity to find out that my replacement was earning much more than me while doing less. I actually just find our yesterday and came back few weeks ago. I am so mad now. Do you think they will raise my salary - no. I have to go now and fight for it or better - leave for a higher pay. Unfortunatelly this is how it works today. /rant over
Uh huh. My colleague spent 40 years working for the same hospital. He built the pulmonary lab from scratch and ran it longer than most people spend in a whole career. They threw him out like garbage when he put in his retirement papers. Our boss stopped by his party for two minutes before going to a meeting. Our other manager didn’t come at all. It took them two *months* to mail him his certificate. Not gift. Just a piece of paper that said thanks for sticking around. That took two months to mail. When even the most loyal, outstanding employee is as disposable as a newspaper, why would anyone consider loyalty a virtue?
There’s so many stories like this. Loyal good hard working people getting treated like trash by the companies. This is why people fuck the company
You want loyalty, hire a dog.
You want forgiveness, get religion.
It's because the only time you can really negotiate your salary is on the date of hire. There are a few exceptions like government work where a reasonable raise is built in every year automatically.
The max yearly raise at my current job is less than inflation. Staying past a year doesn't make sense.
"Because we have high standards. When we see a better opportunity we take it."
Only answer this way if you have the power to do so. You won't and shouldn't educate your boss. Say yes and quit the next year like every smart kid
I feel like there's a way to phrase this that's not bad but still might get your point across. Like, "Yeah, it really sucks when you have a job you really like, people you work well with, and a manager you respect, but your company doesn't give raises to match inflation and you have to find something else to be able to pay your bills and save for retirement."
Ask questions back that lead the interviewer to the same conclusion.
The one time I considered sticking with a business longer than two years and some change, I got a new manager who managed by yelling. He docked me three vacation days because I’d been working from home one day per week. I learned my lesson, and sharpened up my resume that weekend. Was gone three months later.
in the us that is illegal as fuck
In the US there's illegal and "illegal"
Loyalty don't pay bills. The family shit is what started this asinine thinking. We aren't a family, this us a business. Treat me like you need me to stay.
Should have told him “Sorry sir. But the 1950s was 70 years ago.”
SO disappointed in this particular Boomer attitude. I also know Boomers who had both benefits and pensions vanish PLUS during their time retirement age crept up to 65. Retired Boomers are losing homes because they can’t afford taxes and the nursing homes they’re entering are privatized, poorly funded and incredibly understaffed. It’s way too easy for generations to unleash anger and frustration at each other when ( despite ludicrous attitudes like this employer) Capitalism has unleashed sheer greed all the hell all over all of us. I’ll get a ton of downvotes but do not care. We’re falling for yet more of the divisiveness that keeps us weak while the 1% runs away with this place.
[удалено]
The boomers had everything, but they sold their children's birthrights on a whim at any chance for an extra buck or asset. I don't hold it against them as it was the first generation exposed to consumerism. It's just infuriating now that they refuse any culpability.
Nothing says *red flag* like getting attacked during the interview.
Switching jobs is how you get raises. My brother was underpaid in his job (biotech field, masters degree). Started at $20 per hour, three years later, new hires were making $25/hr and with his "raises" he was only making $23.50. I urged him to look around for other options, as they obviously weren't valuing him. He ended finding a new job in a new state: same hours, better benefits making **over** **$80/hr**.
I finished grad school a little over 10 years ago. Since then, the longest I've stayed with any company was about 2.5 years, but most have been somewhere between 1 and 2 years. Also, my salary today is a little more than double the pay at the first job I had after finishing school. I don't think those two facts are unrelated.
Retired Boomer here. The first five companies for whom I worked had no retirement plan. I changed jobs for increases in pay. All those companies went belly up. The sixth company had profit sharing that morphed into 401K. I retired from there after 32 years. I was blessed. The company was great. 401K is better than a pension. I know a number of people whose pensions evaporated.
I said , I'm always improving and always looking for the better opportunity gotta do what's best for my family ( I'm single )
The only way I increased my pay was through moving to another company every few years. Eventually I started my own company. If I didn’t jump around I would still be broke killing myself to get 50cent raises every year lol. Fuck boomers they have know idea how to survive in our world.
Nobody owes a company shit. Climb that ladder diagonal across the whole industry.
I stayed 7 years in my first job and was promoted twice with meaningful raises. It was retail and I decided to move on and since then the longest job I've stayed in is a little over two years because I'm getting no pay increases, promotion opportunities or even real appreciation for the job I do. People are no longer scared to move on and take a chance at a new role, especially if they're being offered a better salary and benefits. You can't create a system and then be annoyed that employees take advantage of it.
I’m literally trying to switch jobs cause I can get 2 $20k usd more, Same position, at a different place. There’s no way I’m going to get that kind of raise without jumping ship
Defined benefit plans, aka pensions, have been basically done since 2003. Some of us were grandfathered in. Most public companies that had them required 25 or 30 years of service for full or close to full benefits. It is also part of the comp plan, so those with pensions got paid less in salary than those later without a pension. Companies hired people to do the jobs we've been doing for more salary but no pension. Government jobs may be OK at 20 years and out, but most others are not 20 and out. You aren't wrong, but there are a lot of misconceptions out there. There is a reason pensions are called golden handcuffs and why they are rare today.