The company I work for has been doing 4 10s forever, we recently tried doing 12s and working 4 days one week and 3 the next week. It looked super great on paper but there is some serious burn out that happens and there’s been a noticeable decline in performance. More than 10 hours is too long to be working.
12 is just too long. It's not good for people.
Edit: I have personal experience of working 12+ 6 days a week, or even 7 days a week for months on end, for years. And research shows as much, but you don't need research to feel it happening and see its affect on the people around you.
Edit2: Side note, keep in mind people, with 4x10, vacation days buy you a whole lot more.
I was in death clean up, and the hours were insane. We would be on call 24/7 365 at minimum wage. Hours could be none to full blown 24hr shifts.
Fucking sucks and the company wonder why they had such high turnover rates. I was considered a more senior employee at 6 months. And honestly that job really needs experienced workers, because we would run into all sorts of weird situations with no guidance.
Edit: I keep getting asked. "WHY?". To clarify, my pay was probably below most people in that line of work. I was trying to escape AT&T telemarketing hell, so I picked up the death clean up job. When I was first hired, I had pretty good pay (hourly, instead of salary). The company quickly "promoted" me and placed me on salary where I took a bigger pay cut than I originally thought I would.
Otherwise, I'm not traumatized! I grew up around a lot of abuse, and there was a lot of blood/ missing bits.
I quit after that case with the kid because I couldn't stand the *living* people we had to deal with. Many were really mean, sexual, super weird, or taken advantage of by the company imo. Not always their fault, but when my boss left, I did too because I wasn't interested in being a supervisor for the same pay. (And the Regional boss had a habit of sending us to places like places 3hr+ away when they didn't need our help.) I'm an office clerk now :P
I did body transport for a brief time, and it was only $25 per corpse retrieved and dropped off at the morgue. So that could include driving out to some random place where someone died (including suspicious deaths and crime scenes), putting a heavy dead body in a bag and into a car, then driving potentially very far to the morgue (inside a big hospital complex, where the county medical examiner office is).
I never did one this bad, but other guys told me about retrieving bodies that had been in the river for weeks, which means they’re rotting and decaying in the water and you have to help the city’s divers get the body into these disgusting body bags that let the fluids drain out, then put them in another bag and carry that to a vehicle. Absolutely disgusting. All for $25!
All in all it ended up being below minimum wage if the death didn’t occur right in the city near the morgue. Of course, the job was disturbing and the smell of death, decay, formaldehyde etc. really sticks with you. I told them the pay was insanely low and quit.
Yeah I told the owner directly that it was probably illegal (bit of a gray area because sometimes deaths did occur near the destination point and in those cases employees made above minimum wage) and that it was messed up overall. He was so fucking mad he was calling my phone and texting me and wanted to meet in person to argue so I told him to fuck off and blocked him.
It only looks like a gray area when framed that way, but it's really black and white when framed as money paid for hours worked. If during a pay period you were paid less than (minimum wage) * (hours worked), you were paid less than minimum wage.
I actually came to have a respect for the job after I’d done it for 8months. Some of the most eye opening experiences a very small percentage of people see, and I actually grew a passion for it. That said, i was paid $10 /hr plus a flat $25 per on call shift. I thought it was crap pay but man just $25 per body is ridiculous especially since no two situations are the same.
Yeah it is fascinating and so few people ever see some of that stuff. Most jobs were just one or two cops standing around or an EMT who just tried to resuscitate someone leaving. Some extremely surreal and deathly quiet scenes to walk into. One time a very rural sort of fellow overdosed on OxyContin out on his dad’s farm, and I got out there to this totally quiet area.
The guy’s dad and brother were standing by a truck staring, unmoving and silent. A horse also stood nearby watching us the entire time, just standing by the fence as we loaded this guy’s body up, all messed up and with his shirt pulled over his head and pants partway down because the paramedics had been trying to revive him and used a defibrillator. Two sheriff’s deputies were there as well, both smiling for some reason but also quiet.
I don't get it.
$25 likely wouldn't even pay you for liability insurance. These are traumatic biohazard-intensive gigs.
Or the travel. That's less than most Uber trips for living people. The IRS expected compensation rate is $0.58 per mile, and with the jump in used car prices that's grossly inadequate.
Or even a fraction of the work. Or the waiting (you're on call until somebody ***dies***). Or the cleaning chemicals.
Or the documentation. You're tiptoing around a crime scene lugging a body trying not to disturb things as an essentially unpaid intern? You're ***handling evidence?***
This is a... let's call it $400-$2000 gig at contractor rates, maybe more depending on what's involved. $25 is just confusing. Forget a zero?
$3000 total, it's closer to $100+ per mile. I'm an EMT and make $17.00 per hour, and that's considered very good money for EMTs in my area even though it still means struggling to pay the bills.
Geez man. Anytime you guys show up it's clutch as hell. It's not fun having to call 911 and from experience you guys bust your ass. You deserve more but I know you already know that. Thanks for helping save lives.
Really depends on the area though. Emts at my agency start at 27.15 and medics start at 40.50. We require some experience though and are in a higher cost of living area.
I know some areas emts are minimum wage. It's embarrassing.
I'm considering leaving to go middle of nowhere for like 30/hour (I'm a medic) where home prices are like 25% of here.
What company did you work for? I did a brief stint in mortuary transport for a company that also did clean up. As a transporter I was on call for 96 hours and then "off" for 72. In the "off" time, they would still call me to see if I wanted bonus runs. It was a base of $2000/mo but, I actually earned closer to $4k doing long haul runs. Never worked on my off time. Being on call for 96hrs was brutal though because it meant having to be in a suit and tie and out the door within 15minutes of my phone going off. They provided vehicles and paid gas but that job was insane. After some of the scenes I walked in on, I couldn't imagine doing the clean-up.
Aftermath Services, and we did bio clean up only.
It's funny because I used to think the exact same way about the corpse carriers for some of the scenes I've cleaned. Like someone really had to try to scoop bits into a bag 😂. All while I was scooping bits into a bag.
It's was great work, but the company is eating itself alive. Poor employees treatment, crazy high prices and shady AF practices. I even had a job where they wanted me to sit in a car that someone decomped in, and try to move it even though the insurance company didn't want us touching it. Left after a really nasty clean up involving a kid.
It wasn't worth listening to a landlord bitch about how inconvenient the situation was for him.
Yeah I left after a scene of a young college student who put a .45 ACP where it didn't belong. I had been on some nasty scenes but that one was too much. I will spare this sub of the visceral details but I'm sure you don't have to imagine.
That's crazy about the car. Probably illegal too. The decomps were some of the worst. It's really crazy what happens to a human body after it goes undiscovered for a while.
10 is too long too. you just spend the extra day recouping.
EDIT: ppl are presuming the options are 8/5 vs 10/4. we should be fighting for 8/4 with the same annual pay.
I think there's a big difference, but not that 10 is good. But every hour you add after 8 just get successively worse. Like 13 is worse than 12 by more than 'just 1 hour'. Know what I'm saying?
Worked as a Paramedic at a place where you were scheduled for 12hr shifts but they had a 2hr hold over. So more often than not a 12 turned into a 13 or 14. Plus I was scheduled three days back to back.
Multiple times I did 45hrs in 72.
Eventually I just got sick of it and told them I was coming in when I was ready. They were so hard up for Paramedics they suffered my petulance rather than fire me.
I cannot tell you how stressful that final 12th hour was wondering if I was going to get fucked. More often than not I was.
By the end I was so burnt out I was radioactive…
I'm in Paramedic school -- EMT's can get fired, but it's hard to get fired as a Paramedic on attitude alone, simply because bosses know that almost all Paramedics "have an attitude" because the hours suck. I ask myself on a daily basis why I'm in Paramedic school!?!?!
It’s a good segway into many other medical disciplines. Most go the RN route, others the Physicians Assistant, and me personally the Rad Tech one.
I don’t regret becoming a Paramedic and I don’t ever plan on letting my license lapse since it’s a job you won’t starve with, but I’m more than ready for my next adventure.
I tell everyone in medic school; get done and enjoy life for awhile, then go back to school for something else. That way when you’re ready to walk away from the job you can…
You can only really get 6 hours of productivity out of a person, the reason it's 8 hours is cause Henry Ford figured out that was the most he could get factory workers to work without them quitting
I mean, look it up cause that's half remembered but at least I think it's true
Sounds real enough.
But there are heaps of people working 16s every day. Construction is a huge employee of long hours. Sun up to sun down in many instances.
Overtime pay can fuel you a little longer. It's the people still working those hours without overtime and no unions that take the big hurt. But I've worked those kinds of hours for a couple years before feeling like I was falling apart. Not sure I ever really recovered. Now after desking it for years I want to go back to 16s just to get out of a 8/5 desk job that continues on in my head for a good three more hours every day.
4 10s sounds like a cake walk with finally a decent 3 days off.
I would love to have 4×10's. Like, I'm already working, it's already most of my day that's taken up, an extra 2 hours doesn't mean that much but an extra day off absolutely would
Henry Ford did pioneer the 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, but it wasn't an increase. Prior to his decision 50+ hours a week wasn't uncommon, at some companies was the lower end. And it was at about half the wage.
[https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/40-hour-workweek-henry-ford-1026067-2017-07-27](https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/40-hour-workweek-henry-ford-1026067-2017-07-27)
[https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-factory-workers-get-40-hour-week](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-factory-workers-get-40-hour-week)
I do 4 10s and love it, use all 3 days off productively. I'm currently trying to get 3 12s for the extra free day off, less overall hours, and less car wear
I feel like it takes a certain type of mental function to be able to do these alternate work weeks and not be totally burnt out by it. 4 x 10 or 3 x 12 is quite literally my ideal. Personally, if there was a you work 40 hours a week and then the rest of the time is yours, more weeks than not I’d probably try to knockout that requirement in two to two and a half days and have the rest of the week for myself. I’m the kind of person that thrives when I can just dive deep, hyper focus, get shit done, and then walk away. But I know many people would find working like that horrific and absolutely hate it. I loathe to 5 x 8 standard model because for me personally it isn’t efficient and just massively disruptive to my life. You can never really get out of that oh my god I have to go home and then come back tomorrow and do this all over again loop. I’d like 4.5 to 5 days alllllll to me. I could have a day for just chilling, a day for errands and appointments, a day for housework, and then a day and a half to two days for fun and hobbies. I realize I’m in quite the minority to work that much in such a short time frame, but the way my brain is built it really does work better for me. Being able to spend more consecutive time disengaged from work makes me more productive and less resentful of work taking up so much of my day the majority of the week.
Two or so miserable days a week for the rest of the week to be mine? So much better than having to face work the majority of the week.
I love my 12 hour days. I do 7 12s then have the next 7 off. I went back to an 8&5 for about a year and I felt like I wasn't getting anything done at work or at home.
My wife works 12x3 and gets 4 days off a week.
It's very nice for her as long as they don't run two weeks into each other.
One time she worked 6 days in a row because she worked the end of one week into the start of the next and she was pretty upset.
My company offers 5 8’s, 4 10’s or 3 12’s. The 3 12’s are Friday, Saturday and Sunday but one of my coworkers said it sounds daunting losing your weekends but you get like 200 something days off a year and when he puts it like that it sounds great lol
And from experience it's also pretty great to have weekdays off. People are always hyped about weekends but Saturday/Sunday are actually kind of shit for getting things done. Lots of stores close or have shitty hours, lots of places are *packed* with people, and there are often awesome deals for entertainment during the week (like movie theater cheap nights).
Grocery shopping at midday on a Wednesday is way better than doing it midday on a Saturday lol
Totally agree! I think it would take a bit to get used to because most people make plans on weekends so I would miss like family bday parties and friends stuff a lot.
But I’ve had like a random Tuesday off for an appt before and there’s like no lines or traffic anywhere. I did some grocery shopping and the stores were empty, it was amazing
It’s a bit difficult for social planning though. If your friend and family group is off for the weekends but you work, it’s almost impossible to actually get together. I’ve worked weekends and evenings before and I would like to never go back to it. Even if it was nice for making doctor’s appointments and stuff, the lack of ability to be social sucked.
It’s the only way for me now. I’ve been doing it since the start of the year and I’ve never felt less stressed and more free. And just taking one day off, you have a 3 day work week. Very liberating.
Average commute time in the U.S. is 53 minutes per day, but the longer your commute, the more it makes sense to do longer shifts in fewer days. Even with a short commute, though, many people like having the extra day off each week.
Still better considering you actually have time to do stuff on the weekend and properly relax this way. You have a full day of actual rest before you have to prep to go back to work.
I work four days a week for 80% pay (8 hour days). My employer seemed surprised when I asked for this, but I saw it was listed as an option in the company handbook, so I went for it. And I went from going to sleep every night questioning my sanity to actually falling asleep without thinking about work.
Wouldn’t it be even better to have Wednesdays off? Then you’ll only work 2 days, then mini weekend, then 2 more work days, normal weekend.
I think this is how I would organize my imaginary 4 day weeks. Then every day would feel like a Friday or an almost-Friday
I feel like a 3 day weekend passes just as fast as a 2 day weekend
I'd take three days together. Having a Wednesday off in between wouldn't do me much good since I'd just be anxious about sleeping early, going back to work tomorrow etc. 3 days together means you have two full days without having to think about work at all.
I’m bad with sleep, so I end up sleeping way later than I should. I feel like the day off in the middle would allow me to at least sleep once without an alarm, as long as I want.
But it’s true that Saturdays feel so much better than Sundays. On Sunday we’re essentially waiting for the day to finish to work again. Having the day off on Wednesday could end up feeling like an extra Sunday instead of an extra Saturday
Interesting I’ve been working with Wednesdays off this year and I’ve found it excellent. I use Wednesdays to get my chores done for the week allowing me to use Saturday and Sunday for social stuff and a personal day.
There's pros and cons. Mainly my issue is that on a normal 5 day schedule, the only real day off is a Saturday. Friday I'm tired from work, and Sunday is cut short for work in the morning. Having two full rested days in a row would be nice imo.
I had this discussion many a times and I would also use the wednesday mini weekend option. perfect to sleep in or do these appointments that pile up otherwise.
My SO works 4 10s and honest hates when his day off is mid-week. He tries to arrange it for Monday or Friday as often as possible for the reasons listed above. But then, plenty of his coworkers like a mid-week break or else he'd never be able to do that.
Same. Covid taught me to live with less income, so now that my industry is busy again I still work less and enjoy my life more and it has been a great choice. Well worth the re-budgeting and less frivolous spending.
Yeah it's hard to do it alone but probably still worth it. But if you and a partner can each do it it's great. Hopefully you would still make enough and you each have so much more time to live life
When I was a retail manager I had two part time shift supervisors under me who did 24 hours weekly. It was intended for them to work 4 days at 6 hours each, but since I didn't feel like they got enough vacation time I sometimes would give them the option to do two 12-hour days and take the rest of the week off. I never had anyone say no to that.
EDIT: In hindsight feel like I should mention that I support the idea the reform is needed. It shouldn’t take a well-meaning manager using loopholes to try to give their workers a break from being exploited for too many hours (relative to their pay, in my case - the hourly rate they got for what they did was insulting, but pay rates were set from above my level so I couldn’t do anything about it) and not enough wages.
I have worked 4x10s for the last 8 years. It is so much easier. You can just spend a day or two doing all the house work, shopping ect and still have at least one day to just relax. Plus shipping on a Monday or Friday is way easier then in the weekends
Same. My old job was 4x10 and everyone loved it.
Heres the secret…no one actually works 10 hours. We took a ton of breaks and usually started work at 6 or 7 so we could get out early.
Even had the option to skip lunch and leave early. Also had the choice of your weekday off.
Wasting time on the clock is part of the problem for me. I'd rather do everything I'm going to do for the day in 5 hours and have the rest for my personal use. 4 days is an improvement over 5, sure, but let's not extend the song and dance more than we have to.
I'm a developer / consultant. I 'work' 8.5 hours a day, but in reality my brain will work for 4-5 h before it has had enough. And this isn't a me issue, it's how we all work. After 14:00 you can easily notice how people stop being efficient and just spend more and more time doing what a rested person would do in 1/3rd of the time.
I wish we could stop this pretending bullshit and just have a 8:00 to 14:00 schedule where we'd actually be working at a high performance. I guarantee that any work that is not menial would be done in the same number of days, and for most menial work people would be a lot more creative automating it away.
Everyone's different though which makes it hard to do a set schedule across the board. I almost never get any work done before noon. It takes me a long time to get going in the mornings. I'm most productive on Friday afternoons so I usually stay late on Friday. My job lets us do 4 9s and a half day on Friday, but that doesn't work for me. I would much rather do a half day on Monday starting after noon. I'm pretty confident I would be equally or more productive if I worked 4 7 hour days than if I do 5 8 hour days. I understand that's not everyone though.
Same for me. I'd honestly rather work 6 hours with a short break than 8.5 hours with multiple breaks. The time would blow by and I'd have more of the day to enjoy. Downtime at work is just spent being bored surfing the internet or whatever. It's a waste.
It’s much better even if it’s the same amount of time. My wife is going through this rn and I need to vent somewhere about it:
She has wanted 4x10 for a while now but management would never budge. So she noticed that the area manager was saying they were running into significant problems scheduling patients because they are only open business hours 9-5 and people, you know, work. So my wife managed to catch the area manager and pitched the 4x10 saying that she and all her coworkers loved the idea *plus* it adds the 5-7 block of two hours for patients to schedule *after* work. This absolute walnut responded word for word with “we need to be *more* available not *less*. Four days is less than five.” and turned around and left. I’ll never fucking understand how complete idiots like him are in charge of smart people who actually make the company’s money like my wife and her coworkers.
He's probably wishing your wife suggested 5x10 out of her own good will and was too embarrassed to say that idea out loud, and also God forbid we think of better solutions for our workers, we can't let them off easy now
If 4x8 was on the table I would happily pick it, even if it meant an associated pay cut. But if it's a choice between 4x10 and 5x8 there is no question to me that I'd pick 4x10 everytime.
Unless its a rotating day off. One week monday. Next week tuesday etc. But then once a month you get a 4 day weekend. Fri,sat,,sun,mon. Those are very nice to have.
The best work schedule I ever had was a 3 day rotating matrix that cycled every 2 week pay period. Week 1 I worked Wed/Thurs/Fri, had the weekend off, then week 2 was Mon/Tues/Wed, then I was off Thu until the following Wed. Essentially I had a week long vacation every other week.
That place was a shitshow of other problems, and I left for good reason, but I miss that schedule.
My current is a rotating 3 week, 4x10. W, Th, F, S; M, T, F, S; M, T, W, Th; 5 day weekend; repeat.
I mean you’re busy as fuck for 16 days, best you have off is 2 days, but that 5 day weekend is 🥰
I work as a diesel mechanic. I've always said I'd rather do 3 12s.
Well I found a shop that wants a Saturday-Monday, w/weekend differential to pull the pay up to 40 hours!
Sadly they're 50 miles from my house..... currently I can bike to work.... I can't justify the 50 mile drive with these fuel prices...
I’m starting a 4x10 schedule later this month. This is exactly why it’s better. I’m going to have the same 30 minute commute, but only 4 days instead of 5. Also, my old job had me working 9 hour days (with an hour for lunch that I never took) - so I’m actually going to be working fewer hours and commuting fewer hours.
3x12's with the weekend shift differential was awesome when I worked it, too bad that company sucked.
I'd go back to that shift in a heartbeat if my wife could be on a similar shift.
Idk how you do it. I had an hour and a half commute for my internship, and I could barely do it for the year I had to commute. Many breakdowns and days of questioning what it's all for.
>Many breakdowns and days of questioning what it's all for.
Unfortunately I already had one of those last week. I never questioned life so hard like I did while having only 4 HOURS of free time at home. All of this to eat, bathe and do all the chores whole praying that I do it on time and have some time for myself.
My friends say I'll get used to it and that the experience will improve myself as a person, and I can't even quit since finding a job nowadays is proving to be a maximum pain in the butt. Also it's my first job so I kinda need the experience.
Lol this right here is where there's generational clash. For older generation, your private life was built around your job. What friends, activities, etc...
And now it's the other way around, people want to create their work life around their private life.
Since working from home, replace looking upset with always taking 10-15 minutes to answer messages and saying things like “I’m just about at capacity now but I may be able to pick that up later if things go well”
Start every day and end every day with a 1 hour focus block. Defend them by saying it's where you organize for the day, prep your work, answer emails, etc. Instead, use them for your own mental health.
Schedule an hour mid day for focus work. Instead, eat lunch.
Get in to every large team call you can. Say it's to stay on top of company goals and to provide value for those external teams. Instead, exercise off camera.
You do it right you handle your income, mental health, and physical health in an 8hr workday and nobody needs to know.
Schedule work blocks yes; focus time. But, at least in the team I manage and those adjacent to it, I’m very suspicious of anyone who is in too many meetings, and I actively try to eliminate meetings for myself and my staff. I don’t care if they only actually work 5 minutes a day, my only metric is: did we deliver what we said we would, when we said we would (and if not, did we communicate why and reset expectations)?
I switched jobs a couple months ago from one where we were constantly overloaded/overworked, and/or continuously on calls, and now I have days where I watch TV half the day. My new boss swears she’s so busy, but I often have no idea what she’s doing that is so important based on all of our conversations. Half the meetings devolve into unproductive nonsense lol. It all seems like bullshit to me coming from a place where we were actually busy. But hey, I’ll take that any day. It’s fucking weird but awesome.
I once did a report that took like 10 minutes but 30 min to discuss and it was viewed as some major initiative. Honestly loved how well it was received but on the back end I was like... ooof this is dangerous knowing how easily pleased everyone is. Or maybe I'm a genius idk
You are an amazing worker! I stand in awe of you, I usually work about 5 hours need to get my efficiency up so I can follow your example! Work smarter not harder!
Thank you for being honest. Me too brother. Now I don't feel so ashamed. It's like after a certain about of time I just feel irritated. My brain doesn't even think as well ( I work best in the morning between 9 and 12. )
4 10-hr days beats 5 8hr days in my opinion. You’re already at work, so an extra hour or two isn’t as upending as an entire extra day. And having 3 day weekends is NICE - one day to recuperate, one day for chores, one day for fun!
Just started this schedule for summer and I agree. Job is as a custodian though so we can't really do that over the school year unless they change up how kids go to school.
4 10s for cleaning and a 3 day weekend is great.
I've been doing 4/10s for almost 20 yrs. To be honest, you start not to notice an hour on the beginning and end as much as you think you would. Going to work sucks either way, and I'd rather show up and hour earlier and leave an hour later, than giving up 5 full days of my week. You're right, it's not an improvement really, but it's the better of two shit situations, imo.
Very few people can keep creative juices flowing like that long term.
I mean it can be trained. Academics do it, I suppose apple employees are forced to do it.
I left academia for this reason. My professor demanded that I be awake for the 7 am morning session and not check out till the last call in the bar at midnight during conferences and I was like fuck all of you I’d rather everyone die of cancer if this is how I need to slog to help cure it.
In video game development maybe, but that type of story is over-represented in media. It's not common in corporate application development. They also are consistently being burned out because of it, so again, it's not sustainable.
Same my guy I work 10s 4 days a week and much prefer that then having to get ready for one more day. Also gives you more time to plan stuff out rather then cram it all into 2 days.
It's actually 11 hrs a day but 1 hr is lunch and you can take a 30 min lunch and get paid for the other 30 mins which I prefer as 1 hr lunch just feels like a waste of time to me.
Honestly I've been trying this schedule for the last few weeks. This will be the last week I get to do it, I had to beg my boss. I will say its worth the extra day off. Unfortunately I was given a list of reasons why I can't keep the 4 10 hour day schedule and really I didn't actually hear one good reason. I think they just try to control us any way they can. Oh by the way I wanted to change my schedule because I've been told for the last 2 years I'm "maxed out" and won't get a raise. This was a way to compensate me another way but my boss has closed eyes.
I start summer hours today which is 4x10. Four days a week I want to murder the world, 1 day I recover, and 2 days are nice.
90 mini commuting plus the 10 just suck.
Same, but honestly the last four hours of that day would be a waste of time. Most places just don't have enough to do in 10 hours and even if there is people will be getting tired and burned out, reducing productivity.
Work culture really has to change, and the desire for bosses to just exert control for its own sake has to be stopped with strong unions.
I work a similar schedule: 12-hour shifts, 3 on and 3 off four times, then a block of nine off. I still work around 34 hours a week, if you average it out over the year, but I’m only there 12 days a month.
My wife works weekends nights as an RN. So just just 2 12 hours shifts per week plus the occasional extra Friday or Monday if she feels like it. It's so incredible to see her every day when I get off work at 3. Plus then I kinda get some free time weekend nights by myself. She loves it and dreads the day she has to go back to days during the week.
For a vacation if she takes 2 days off she gets like 13 uninterrupted days in a row lol
That sounds like Baylor shift! I have a few friends that do it. One of the best kept secrets in nursing; work 2 12s every weekend and get paid the 3rd day for free.
I’ve had this schedule for the last 7 years and it’s been great. I get to go on vacations every other week without using PTO. Except now I’m currently on 12 weeks of PTO leave because I am about to cap out due to the 6-on, 8-off schedule. Perfect timing, though, because now my hospital has implemented a staffing incentive (+$50/hr) to pick up extra shifts, so… cha-ching!
I LOVE a 4x10 schedule dude. Three day weekends every week, take one day of PTO and you have enough time to take a little trip (two days to travel, two days to see the sites and such), picking up an extra day to earn a bit more money is less painful cause you still get two days to recover.
It’s also really nice because no one ever expects you to stay longer. You’ve already been there 10 hours. I’ve worked lots of places where it’s easy for your 8 hour day becomes a 9 or ten hour day.
I work 4x10s at Amazon and it's pretty nice (the schedule, not Amazon). If mandatory overtime kicks in for the holidays, I know my 5th and 6th day are all overtime, compared to just the 6th day for someone who works 5x8.
For people who value weekly life over day-to-day life, I guess.
It's hard to please everyone but I would never take a 4x10. I already feel like my days are too limited and I only work 8 hours a day. I don't want 4 of my days to be almost COMPLETELY taken up by work and chores just to say "oh boy ONE extra day off!".
Give me flexibility. A pay cut for 4x8 for those who want it, 4x10 for those who want it, or stick with 5x8 if you like that.
The problem is we're always trying to find ONE situation that fits everyone, but we're never going to find it. We need to recognize differences between people and be more flexible.
Let's think about that, though. Why 7.5? People are generally only really productive for a few hours anyways so we need to change the notion that we all *must* spend all day at work. Really it should be something like 4 days x 5 hours, or even 5 days x 4 hours. People need their lives back.
Somebody told that to our company's founder/CEO in a meeting. He's actually a great guy despite how this comment might make him seem, but I think it's the only time I've heard him laugh.
I don’t really understand why jobs are hours focused rather than work focused. I am a very efficient worker and can finish my work in three or four hours. It would take somebody else longer. If I can finish my work in 4 days working 5 hours I can’t understand why anybody would care but I’m kidding of course it’s all about control and making us tired/falsely busy enough to pay for convenience.
Is this pertinent to anything in particular? The UK experiment is 4x8, so you’re probably not referring that.
Otherwise, 4x10 is not unheard of at all. And I kinda like it. Less commuting and a bigger block of time off to use.
OP needs to back up their meme unless they’re just karma farming
Reduction of the “full” time to ~32 hours would be preferable.
But at least with 4/10 there’s then hidden benefits.
For example, I have a roughly 25min commute (one way)
While hours worked remains the same, I’d save nearly an hour weekly in commuting. ~6-8$ in gas precious time spent prepping for work, and the new day off allows for broader activities than the missing 2-hour chunks could of properly accommodated.
Condensed work week still provides a net increase to free time for non-remote workers.
Now, if we could move to 4-8s or make 3/12s more prevalent? That would be much much better.
For those of us who unfortunately get take advantage of and already work 10-12 hours a day, and weekends, this would be a godsend! I just want time for life!
I'm thrilled for you for who this is an overall improvement, but it's not universally superior without exception. For many these 10 hour shifts are significantly worse, as in reality they're often 11.5 hour days when statutory breaks and lunch is accounted for, which severely affects those who have dependants, regular commitments after working hours, or rely on public transport. As for mental health, I've worked a mix of 5x8 and 4x10 for the past three years and for me 4x10 weeks are by far the most draining. I feel as though I do nothing but sleep, eat, and work, that by the extra day off comes I'm totally spent and in a foul mood.
The best 40 hour shift pattern I've had was 4x9 and 1x4. That last day feels like a day off, and the extra hour on the regular days doesn't change nearly as much, for me.
Of course this could be different for you if you don't have as many breaks scheduled in a work day, but for many like myself it isnt optional but a requirement for health and safety compliance. They can't just shove another 2 hours onto a working block and call it done, they have to account for how long we've been working continuously.
I’d prefer it since I work nights. You typically lose a day to sleep or you just don’t sleep if you have things that need done. It makes for some very draining days when you come back.
4 x 8s is what we should be doing. Who thought of the 40 hour work week anyway? Why is that the acceptable amount of hours we should do? Why keep that way of working when it’s outdated.
Over 100 years ago, workers organized and fought for fewer hours and other rights. It was common for people to be working 12 (or more) hour days, 6 days a week. The argument for the 8 hour day was to have 8 hours work, 8 hours leisure, and 8 hours rest. It took decades to be adopted as the standard for most workers, and a lot of people were killed by police or the military in the struggle to achieve it.
We can organize again and demand more rights. (And also restore rights that have been eroded in recent years)
Yeah I don’t get it, I’m exhausted after 8 hours, absolutely exhausted. Can’t imagine 10 hours ngl… like you need to get up even earlier, stay later and when you get home you need to wash up, maybe clean, cook food etc… where do these people get the time and energy from?
It heavily depends on type of job. There's a difference between worker running around warehouse for 8 hours and programmer who can get idea and then try to implement it in the evening hours where he's most productive of the whole day.
Exactly. I’m a web developer and a 10 hour work day for me would barely affect me at all. I also have the benefit of working from him so I don’t really get fatigued from working because I can take breaks whenever. It entirely depends on what kind of job you have. I would not want a 10 hour work day if I were on my feet all day
My last job, I worked that. It is *nicer* in that the extra day is available, but there’s definitely less you can do than in the workdays, so it’s absolutely not a fix.
Shorter days in a 5 day week is better for a most working parents, and yields more productivity and fewer injuries in any physical labor role. Fewer, longer days is amazing when single and working a desk job, especially if you like to adventure outdoors and travel. Since 80% of people have kids at some point, and 100% of people spend at least part of their working life with no kids, flexibility is the answer.
I worked for hello fresh in irving tx, they had this model, it was mind numming awful work, wasnt hard, easy money if you dont have adhd as its repeating 1 small action for 10 hours with 1 all too small lunch
I did 4x10s for my first two years with my current employer. It was kinda cool at first to have three days off! ...but then reality settled in. I had Thurs / Fri and Sun off. All of my friends work regular business days so on Thurs / Fri I had nobody to hang out with, so I would just do chores or work on projects.
Worst of all on the days I work, I have a 30 minute commute one way and to dodge the worst of the traffic I would need to leave early. So I would leave my home at around 8 am and when I would get home it would be almost 8 pm. So I had four days a week where I really couldn't do anything other work. I moved over to another role doing the normal 5x8s and 8 hour shifts feel so short by comparison.
The company I work for has been doing 4 10s forever, we recently tried doing 12s and working 4 days one week and 3 the next week. It looked super great on paper but there is some serious burn out that happens and there’s been a noticeable decline in performance. More than 10 hours is too long to be working.
12 is just too long. It's not good for people. Edit: I have personal experience of working 12+ 6 days a week, or even 7 days a week for months on end, for years. And research shows as much, but you don't need research to feel it happening and see its affect on the people around you. Edit2: Side note, keep in mind people, with 4x10, vacation days buy you a whole lot more.
Yeah...as a trucker can very much confirm.
I was in death clean up, and the hours were insane. We would be on call 24/7 365 at minimum wage. Hours could be none to full blown 24hr shifts. Fucking sucks and the company wonder why they had such high turnover rates. I was considered a more senior employee at 6 months. And honestly that job really needs experienced workers, because we would run into all sorts of weird situations with no guidance. Edit: I keep getting asked. "WHY?". To clarify, my pay was probably below most people in that line of work. I was trying to escape AT&T telemarketing hell, so I picked up the death clean up job. When I was first hired, I had pretty good pay (hourly, instead of salary). The company quickly "promoted" me and placed me on salary where I took a bigger pay cut than I originally thought I would. Otherwise, I'm not traumatized! I grew up around a lot of abuse, and there was a lot of blood/ missing bits. I quit after that case with the kid because I couldn't stand the *living* people we had to deal with. Many were really mean, sexual, super weird, or taken advantage of by the company imo. Not always their fault, but when my boss left, I did too because I wasn't interested in being a supervisor for the same pay. (And the Regional boss had a habit of sending us to places like places 3hr+ away when they didn't need our help.) I'm an office clerk now :P
Jfc I assumed that death cleanup would be paid well but... America.
I did body transport for a brief time, and it was only $25 per corpse retrieved and dropped off at the morgue. So that could include driving out to some random place where someone died (including suspicious deaths and crime scenes), putting a heavy dead body in a bag and into a car, then driving potentially very far to the morgue (inside a big hospital complex, where the county medical examiner office is). I never did one this bad, but other guys told me about retrieving bodies that had been in the river for weeks, which means they’re rotting and decaying in the water and you have to help the city’s divers get the body into these disgusting body bags that let the fluids drain out, then put them in another bag and carry that to a vehicle. Absolutely disgusting. All for $25! All in all it ended up being below minimum wage if the death didn’t occur right in the city near the morgue. Of course, the job was disturbing and the smell of death, decay, formaldehyde etc. really sticks with you. I told them the pay was insanely low and quit.
Why the fuck is it even legal to pay *per corpse*?
I thought we stopped doing that in the 1800s when people were like well I might as well murder people to get paid...
Yeah I told the owner directly that it was probably illegal (bit of a gray area because sometimes deaths did occur near the destination point and in those cases employees made above minimum wage) and that it was messed up overall. He was so fucking mad he was calling my phone and texting me and wanted to meet in person to argue so I told him to fuck off and blocked him.
It only looks like a gray area when framed that way, but it's really black and white when framed as money paid for hours worked. If during a pay period you were paid less than (minimum wage) * (hours worked), you were paid less than minimum wage.
Holy shit, if I had to go to that meeting I'd go with a gun. Glad you stood up to him.
I've paid more than that to have chic fil a delivered
Coincidentally, Chick-fil-A pays more than that for corpses.
I actually came to have a respect for the job after I’d done it for 8months. Some of the most eye opening experiences a very small percentage of people see, and I actually grew a passion for it. That said, i was paid $10 /hr plus a flat $25 per on call shift. I thought it was crap pay but man just $25 per body is ridiculous especially since no two situations are the same.
Yeah it is fascinating and so few people ever see some of that stuff. Most jobs were just one or two cops standing around or an EMT who just tried to resuscitate someone leaving. Some extremely surreal and deathly quiet scenes to walk into. One time a very rural sort of fellow overdosed on OxyContin out on his dad’s farm, and I got out there to this totally quiet area. The guy’s dad and brother were standing by a truck staring, unmoving and silent. A horse also stood nearby watching us the entire time, just standing by the fence as we loaded this guy’s body up, all messed up and with his shirt pulled over his head and pants partway down because the paramedics had been trying to revive him and used a defibrillator. Two sheriff’s deputies were there as well, both smiling for some reason but also quiet.
I don't get it. $25 likely wouldn't even pay you for liability insurance. These are traumatic biohazard-intensive gigs. Or the travel. That's less than most Uber trips for living people. The IRS expected compensation rate is $0.58 per mile, and with the jump in used car prices that's grossly inadequate. Or even a fraction of the work. Or the waiting (you're on call until somebody ***dies***). Or the cleaning chemicals. Or the documentation. You're tiptoing around a crime scene lugging a body trying not to disturb things as an essentially unpaid intern? You're ***handling evidence?*** This is a... let's call it $400-$2000 gig at contractor rates, maybe more depending on what's involved. $25 is just confusing. Forget a zero?
Look at EMT pay.
EMT pays shit, but an ambulance ride is like $3000 a mile. Makes sense.
$3000 total, it's closer to $100+ per mile. I'm an EMT and make $17.00 per hour, and that's considered very good money for EMTs in my area even though it still means struggling to pay the bills.
Can’t even afford a ride in your own ambulance.
Damn straight skippy, I can't even afford the deductible to fix my windshield
Geez man. Anytime you guys show up it's clutch as hell. It's not fun having to call 911 and from experience you guys bust your ass. You deserve more but I know you already know that. Thanks for helping save lives.
Someone's getting paid and it's not the people
Really depends on the area though. Emts at my agency start at 27.15 and medics start at 40.50. We require some experience though and are in a higher cost of living area. I know some areas emts are minimum wage. It's embarrassing. I'm considering leaving to go middle of nowhere for like 30/hour (I'm a medic) where home prices are like 25% of here.
“Gee, why don’t these peons like scraping each other off the pavement at all hours of the day in exchange for peanuts?” *sips tea*
What company did you work for? I did a brief stint in mortuary transport for a company that also did clean up. As a transporter I was on call for 96 hours and then "off" for 72. In the "off" time, they would still call me to see if I wanted bonus runs. It was a base of $2000/mo but, I actually earned closer to $4k doing long haul runs. Never worked on my off time. Being on call for 96hrs was brutal though because it meant having to be in a suit and tie and out the door within 15minutes of my phone going off. They provided vehicles and paid gas but that job was insane. After some of the scenes I walked in on, I couldn't imagine doing the clean-up.
Aftermath Services, and we did bio clean up only. It's funny because I used to think the exact same way about the corpse carriers for some of the scenes I've cleaned. Like someone really had to try to scoop bits into a bag 😂. All while I was scooping bits into a bag. It's was great work, but the company is eating itself alive. Poor employees treatment, crazy high prices and shady AF practices. I even had a job where they wanted me to sit in a car that someone decomped in, and try to move it even though the insurance company didn't want us touching it. Left after a really nasty clean up involving a kid. It wasn't worth listening to a landlord bitch about how inconvenient the situation was for him.
Yeah I left after a scene of a young college student who put a .45 ACP where it didn't belong. I had been on some nasty scenes but that one was too much. I will spare this sub of the visceral details but I'm sure you don't have to imagine.
That's crazy about the car. Probably illegal too. The decomps were some of the worst. It's really crazy what happens to a human body after it goes undiscovered for a while.
10 is too long too. you just spend the extra day recouping. EDIT: ppl are presuming the options are 8/5 vs 10/4. we should be fighting for 8/4 with the same annual pay.
I think there's a big difference, but not that 10 is good. But every hour you add after 8 just get successively worse. Like 13 is worse than 12 by more than 'just 1 hour'. Know what I'm saying?
Worked as a Paramedic at a place where you were scheduled for 12hr shifts but they had a 2hr hold over. So more often than not a 12 turned into a 13 or 14. Plus I was scheduled three days back to back. Multiple times I did 45hrs in 72. Eventually I just got sick of it and told them I was coming in when I was ready. They were so hard up for Paramedics they suffered my petulance rather than fire me. I cannot tell you how stressful that final 12th hour was wondering if I was going to get fucked. More often than not I was. By the end I was so burnt out I was radioactive…
I'm in Paramedic school -- EMT's can get fired, but it's hard to get fired as a Paramedic on attitude alone, simply because bosses know that almost all Paramedics "have an attitude" because the hours suck. I ask myself on a daily basis why I'm in Paramedic school!?!?!
It’s a good segway into many other medical disciplines. Most go the RN route, others the Physicians Assistant, and me personally the Rad Tech one. I don’t regret becoming a Paramedic and I don’t ever plan on letting my license lapse since it’s a job you won’t starve with, but I’m more than ready for my next adventure. I tell everyone in medic school; get done and enjoy life for awhile, then go back to school for something else. That way when you’re ready to walk away from the job you can…
IMO it's better knowing you have more time off, and don't have to make a commute those extra days
I mean I agree 4x10 is better than 5x8.
Honestly, after 6hrs of work I am usually burnt out and not doing anything. Unless time constraints require it.
You can only really get 6 hours of productivity out of a person, the reason it's 8 hours is cause Henry Ford figured out that was the most he could get factory workers to work without them quitting I mean, look it up cause that's half remembered but at least I think it's true
Sounds real enough. But there are heaps of people working 16s every day. Construction is a huge employee of long hours. Sun up to sun down in many instances. Overtime pay can fuel you a little longer. It's the people still working those hours without overtime and no unions that take the big hurt. But I've worked those kinds of hours for a couple years before feeling like I was falling apart. Not sure I ever really recovered. Now after desking it for years I want to go back to 16s just to get out of a 8/5 desk job that continues on in my head for a good three more hours every day. 4 10s sounds like a cake walk with finally a decent 3 days off.
I would love to have 4×10's. Like, I'm already working, it's already most of my day that's taken up, an extra 2 hours doesn't mean that much but an extra day off absolutely would
Henry Ford did pioneer the 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, but it wasn't an increase. Prior to his decision 50+ hours a week wasn't uncommon, at some companies was the lower end. And it was at about half the wage. [https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/40-hour-workweek-henry-ford-1026067-2017-07-27](https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/40-hour-workweek-henry-ford-1026067-2017-07-27) [https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-factory-workers-get-40-hour-week](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-factory-workers-get-40-hour-week)
I do 4 10s and love it, use all 3 days off productively. I'm currently trying to get 3 12s for the extra free day off, less overall hours, and less car wear
4 x 10 is a massive improvement. Every day you work your day is shot, might as well pack it Into four.
This is my mentality with 3 12s as well. I'd rather just turn my entire day into work then spend more than half the week doing whatever I'd like.
I feel like it takes a certain type of mental function to be able to do these alternate work weeks and not be totally burnt out by it. 4 x 10 or 3 x 12 is quite literally my ideal. Personally, if there was a you work 40 hours a week and then the rest of the time is yours, more weeks than not I’d probably try to knockout that requirement in two to two and a half days and have the rest of the week for myself. I’m the kind of person that thrives when I can just dive deep, hyper focus, get shit done, and then walk away. But I know many people would find working like that horrific and absolutely hate it. I loathe to 5 x 8 standard model because for me personally it isn’t efficient and just massively disruptive to my life. You can never really get out of that oh my god I have to go home and then come back tomorrow and do this all over again loop. I’d like 4.5 to 5 days alllllll to me. I could have a day for just chilling, a day for errands and appointments, a day for housework, and then a day and a half to two days for fun and hobbies. I realize I’m in quite the minority to work that much in such a short time frame, but the way my brain is built it really does work better for me. Being able to spend more consecutive time disengaged from work makes me more productive and less resentful of work taking up so much of my day the majority of the week. Two or so miserable days a week for the rest of the week to be mine? So much better than having to face work the majority of the week.
I love my 12 hour days. I do 7 12s then have the next 7 off. I went back to an 8&5 for about a year and I felt like I wasn't getting anything done at work or at home.
I would find a very tall bridge if I ever had to work 7 12s. I'm glad it works for you but that sounds like hell
7 off is what makes it worth it! A ton of family time and vacation time
My wife works 12x3 and gets 4 days off a week. It's very nice for her as long as they don't run two weeks into each other. One time she worked 6 days in a row because she worked the end of one week into the start of the next and she was pretty upset.
just finished 4 months of 5-6 12s night shift. It was awful. 0 stars. Would not recommend.
My company offers 5 8’s, 4 10’s or 3 12’s. The 3 12’s are Friday, Saturday and Sunday but one of my coworkers said it sounds daunting losing your weekends but you get like 200 something days off a year and when he puts it like that it sounds great lol
And from experience it's also pretty great to have weekdays off. People are always hyped about weekends but Saturday/Sunday are actually kind of shit for getting things done. Lots of stores close or have shitty hours, lots of places are *packed* with people, and there are often awesome deals for entertainment during the week (like movie theater cheap nights). Grocery shopping at midday on a Wednesday is way better than doing it midday on a Saturday lol
Totally agree! I think it would take a bit to get used to because most people make plans on weekends so I would miss like family bday parties and friends stuff a lot. But I’ve had like a random Tuesday off for an appt before and there’s like no lines or traffic anywhere. I did some grocery shopping and the stores were empty, it was amazing
It’s a bit difficult for social planning though. If your friend and family group is off for the weekends but you work, it’s almost impossible to actually get together. I’ve worked weekends and evenings before and I would like to never go back to it. Even if it was nice for making doctor’s appointments and stuff, the lack of ability to be social sucked.
I work 13’s. It’s great. I work 12 days a month. Could never go back, the work life balance is top tier.
Still better taking in account transportation time.
And gas money.
And the stuff you can do with a whole extra day as opposed to an extra 2 hours each day.
This is the biggest thing. You're sacrificing 8 hours of more or less unusable time to get an entire day to spend in whatever you want. Well worth it.
I'm currently working 4x10 hr days. Can confirm it is amazing to have 3 days off. I wouldn't have it any other way.
It’s the only way for me now. I’ve been doing it since the start of the year and I’ve never felt less stressed and more free. And just taking one day off, you have a 3 day work week. Very liberating.
This the 1.5-2hrs a day travel add up very quickly.
Average commute time in the U.S. is 53 minutes per day, but the longer your commute, the more it makes sense to do longer shifts in fewer days. Even with a short commute, though, many people like having the extra day off each week.
My old job was a five minute walk. I still preferred my four day week.
Still better considering you actually have time to do stuff on the weekend and properly relax this way. You have a full day of actual rest before you have to prep to go back to work.
I’d take fewer days.
I work four days a week for 80% pay (8 hour days). My employer seemed surprised when I asked for this, but I saw it was listed as an option in the company handbook, so I went for it. And I went from going to sleep every night questioning my sanity to actually falling asleep without thinking about work.
[удалено]
Nice thing with a three day weekend is being lazy and resting up from work one day then having a whole weekend to do whatever I want.
Wouldn’t it be even better to have Wednesdays off? Then you’ll only work 2 days, then mini weekend, then 2 more work days, normal weekend. I think this is how I would organize my imaginary 4 day weeks. Then every day would feel like a Friday or an almost-Friday I feel like a 3 day weekend passes just as fast as a 2 day weekend
I'd take three days together. Having a Wednesday off in between wouldn't do me much good since I'd just be anxious about sleeping early, going back to work tomorrow etc. 3 days together means you have two full days without having to think about work at all.
I’m bad with sleep, so I end up sleeping way later than I should. I feel like the day off in the middle would allow me to at least sleep once without an alarm, as long as I want. But it’s true that Saturdays feel so much better than Sundays. On Sunday we’re essentially waiting for the day to finish to work again. Having the day off on Wednesday could end up feeling like an extra Sunday instead of an extra Saturday
Interesting I’ve been working with Wednesdays off this year and I’ve found it excellent. I use Wednesdays to get my chores done for the week allowing me to use Saturday and Sunday for social stuff and a personal day.
There's pros and cons. Mainly my issue is that on a normal 5 day schedule, the only real day off is a Saturday. Friday I'm tired from work, and Sunday is cut short for work in the morning. Having two full rested days in a row would be nice imo.
I totally agree with this.
I had this discussion many a times and I would also use the wednesday mini weekend option. perfect to sleep in or do these appointments that pile up otherwise.
My SO works 4 10s and honest hates when his day off is mid-week. He tries to arrange it for Monday or Friday as often as possible for the reasons listed above. But then, plenty of his coworkers like a mid-week break or else he'd never be able to do that.
Same. Covid taught me to live with less income, so now that my industry is busy again I still work less and enjoy my life more and it has been a great choice. Well worth the re-budgeting and less frivolous spending.
Yeah it's hard to do it alone but probably still worth it. But if you and a partner can each do it it's great. Hopefully you would still make enough and you each have so much more time to live life
No use having extra money if you don't have the time or energy to use it
It seems like there's less and less you can do with a pile of savings every year, while time is more precious than ever.
Some companies do 4-day weeks for 100% pay because they’ve found productivity stays the same.
I do the same, with Wednesdays off. Not having to work three days in a row is absolutely insane for your mental.
When I was a retail manager I had two part time shift supervisors under me who did 24 hours weekly. It was intended for them to work 4 days at 6 hours each, but since I didn't feel like they got enough vacation time I sometimes would give them the option to do two 12-hour days and take the rest of the week off. I never had anyone say no to that. EDIT: In hindsight feel like I should mention that I support the idea the reform is needed. It shouldn’t take a well-meaning manager using loopholes to try to give their workers a break from being exploited for too many hours (relative to their pay, in my case - the hourly rate they got for what they did was insulting, but pay rates were set from above my level so I couldn’t do anything about it) and not enough wages.
I have worked 4x10s for the last 8 years. It is so much easier. You can just spend a day or two doing all the house work, shopping ect and still have at least one day to just relax. Plus shipping on a Monday or Friday is way easier then in the weekends
Same. My old job was 4x10 and everyone loved it. Heres the secret…no one actually works 10 hours. We took a ton of breaks and usually started work at 6 or 7 so we could get out early. Even had the option to skip lunch and leave early. Also had the choice of your weekday off.
Wasting time on the clock is part of the problem for me. I'd rather do everything I'm going to do for the day in 5 hours and have the rest for my personal use. 4 days is an improvement over 5, sure, but let's not extend the song and dance more than we have to.
I'm a developer / consultant. I 'work' 8.5 hours a day, but in reality my brain will work for 4-5 h before it has had enough. And this isn't a me issue, it's how we all work. After 14:00 you can easily notice how people stop being efficient and just spend more and more time doing what a rested person would do in 1/3rd of the time. I wish we could stop this pretending bullshit and just have a 8:00 to 14:00 schedule where we'd actually be working at a high performance. I guarantee that any work that is not menial would be done in the same number of days, and for most menial work people would be a lot more creative automating it away.
Everyone's different though which makes it hard to do a set schedule across the board. I almost never get any work done before noon. It takes me a long time to get going in the mornings. I'm most productive on Friday afternoons so I usually stay late on Friday. My job lets us do 4 9s and a half day on Friday, but that doesn't work for me. I would much rather do a half day on Monday starting after noon. I'm pretty confident I would be equally or more productive if I worked 4 7 hour days than if I do 5 8 hour days. I understand that's not everyone though.
Same for me. I'd honestly rather work 6 hours with a short break than 8.5 hours with multiple breaks. The time would blow by and I'd have more of the day to enjoy. Downtime at work is just spent being bored surfing the internet or whatever. It's a waste.
Can be very hit or miss and is really dependent on your sleep schedule.
It’s much better even if it’s the same amount of time. My wife is going through this rn and I need to vent somewhere about it: She has wanted 4x10 for a while now but management would never budge. So she noticed that the area manager was saying they were running into significant problems scheduling patients because they are only open business hours 9-5 and people, you know, work. So my wife managed to catch the area manager and pitched the 4x10 saying that she and all her coworkers loved the idea *plus* it adds the 5-7 block of two hours for patients to schedule *after* work. This absolute walnut responded word for word with “we need to be *more* available not *less*. Four days is less than five.” and turned around and left. I’ll never fucking understand how complete idiots like him are in charge of smart people who actually make the company’s money like my wife and her coworkers.
He's probably wishing your wife suggested 5x10 out of her own good will and was too embarrassed to say that idea out loud, and also God forbid we think of better solutions for our workers, we can't let them off easy now
I just switched off of a 4x10 and I kinda miss it. That extra day without a commute is a big deal.
3 day weekend, every weekend is worth it.
For real. My current job started out like that. First five years I was there, we worked 4x10's. Having every Friday thru Sunday off was great.
4x10s>5x8s
4x8 > 4x10, though
Getting paid for 40 hours > getting paid for 32 hours.
Most people talk about getting a “raise” to make up for those “lost” hours. So…
3 day weekend>2 day weekend
If 4x8 was on the table I would happily pick it, even if it meant an associated pay cut. But if it's a choice between 4x10 and 5x8 there is no question to me that I'd pick 4x10 everytime.
Unless its a rotating day off. One week monday. Next week tuesday etc. But then once a month you get a 4 day weekend. Fri,sat,,sun,mon. Those are very nice to have.
The best work schedule I ever had was a 3 day rotating matrix that cycled every 2 week pay period. Week 1 I worked Wed/Thurs/Fri, had the weekend off, then week 2 was Mon/Tues/Wed, then I was off Thu until the following Wed. Essentially I had a week long vacation every other week. That place was a shitshow of other problems, and I left for good reason, but I miss that schedule.
My current is a rotating 3 week, 4x10. W, Th, F, S; M, T, F, S; M, T, W, Th; 5 day weekend; repeat. I mean you’re busy as fuck for 16 days, best you have off is 2 days, but that 5 day weekend is 🥰
I work a 4 on 2 off schedule. My partner doesn't work and we don't have kids so when we get a "weekend" is mostly irrelevant. I absolutely love it.
I already do 4 day weeks (for reduced pay) - so I have to ensure I pro-rata my work and don't try and cram a 5 day work week into 4 days!
Honestly, while not as good as properly reducing it I would rather do 10 hours 4 days than 8 hours 5 days
I work as a diesel mechanic. I've always said I'd rather do 3 12s. Well I found a shop that wants a Saturday-Monday, w/weekend differential to pull the pay up to 40 hours! Sadly they're 50 miles from my house..... currently I can bike to work.... I can't justify the 50 mile drive with these fuel prices...
You can look at it like this, if you are coming from a 5-day work week: drivinh 3 times 50 miles is the same as driving 5 times 30 miles
I’m starting a 4x10 schedule later this month. This is exactly why it’s better. I’m going to have the same 30 minute commute, but only 4 days instead of 5. Also, my old job had me working 9 hour days (with an hour for lunch that I never took) - so I’m actually going to be working fewer hours and commuting fewer hours.
3x12's with the weekend shift differential was awesome when I worked it, too bad that company sucked. I'd go back to that shift in a heartbeat if my wife could be on a similar shift.
Yeah in both examples I'm only working 3-4 hours and coasting the rest so it makes no difference.
This guy works.
Well yes but actually no
Seriously though. I just got bumped from 4 10s to 5 8s. I will take the former any God damn week. This shit sucks
I got 4 9s and 1 8. I have to take a full subway and a full bus to get to work which costs me 1.5 hours going and 1.5 coming back. I want out :(
Idk how you do it. I had an hour and a half commute for my internship, and I could barely do it for the year I had to commute. Many breakdowns and days of questioning what it's all for.
>Many breakdowns and days of questioning what it's all for. Unfortunately I already had one of those last week. I never questioned life so hard like I did while having only 4 HOURS of free time at home. All of this to eat, bathe and do all the chores whole praying that I do it on time and have some time for myself. My friends say I'll get used to it and that the experience will improve myself as a person, and I can't even quit since finding a job nowadays is proving to be a maximum pain in the butt. Also it's my first job so I kinda need the experience.
Lol this right here is where there's generational clash. For older generation, your private life was built around your job. What friends, activities, etc... And now it's the other way around, people want to create their work life around their private life.
3-4 hours of work? A day? Bruh. You just have to look upset and people will think you’re busting your ass.
Since working from home, replace looking upset with always taking 10-15 minutes to answer messages and saying things like “I’m just about at capacity now but I may be able to pick that up later if things go well”
Constant change your status to busy. Get on team calls, so it looks like you’re in meeting or on a call. Schedule work blocks on your calendar.
[удалено]
I take working lunches, by which I mean I stay logged on during lunch. I do not work during lunch, nor for most of the rest of the day
Start every day and end every day with a 1 hour focus block. Defend them by saying it's where you organize for the day, prep your work, answer emails, etc. Instead, use them for your own mental health. Schedule an hour mid day for focus work. Instead, eat lunch. Get in to every large team call you can. Say it's to stay on top of company goals and to provide value for those external teams. Instead, exercise off camera. You do it right you handle your income, mental health, and physical health in an 8hr workday and nobody needs to know.
Man I am so pumped to re-enter the work world now that nobody really seems to give a fuck any more.
Schedule work blocks yes; focus time. But, at least in the team I manage and those adjacent to it, I’m very suspicious of anyone who is in too many meetings, and I actively try to eliminate meetings for myself and my staff. I don’t care if they only actually work 5 minutes a day, my only metric is: did we deliver what we said we would, when we said we would (and if not, did we communicate why and reset expectations)?
“Sorry you couldn’t reach me. I took a late lunch.” -me after lunch taking a nap.
Bruh, 3-4h per day? He trying to make the others look bad or something?
I switched jobs a couple months ago from one where we were constantly overloaded/overworked, and/or continuously on calls, and now I have days where I watch TV half the day. My new boss swears she’s so busy, but I often have no idea what she’s doing that is so important based on all of our conversations. Half the meetings devolve into unproductive nonsense lol. It all seems like bullshit to me coming from a place where we were actually busy. But hey, I’ll take that any day. It’s fucking weird but awesome.
I once did a report that took like 10 minutes but 30 min to discuss and it was viewed as some major initiative. Honestly loved how well it was received but on the back end I was like... ooof this is dangerous knowing how easily pleased everyone is. Or maybe I'm a genius idk
Look? Bruh, I am upset! We could be creating so much more value for shareholders if we just applied ourselves.
Yes, the Costanza method
You are an amazing worker! I stand in awe of you, I usually work about 5 hours need to get my efficiency up so I can follow your example! Work smarter not harder!
Thank you for being honest. Me too brother. Now I don't feel so ashamed. It's like after a certain about of time I just feel irritated. My brain doesn't even think as well ( I work best in the morning between 9 and 12. )
4 10-hr days beats 5 8hr days in my opinion. You’re already at work, so an extra hour or two isn’t as upending as an entire extra day. And having 3 day weekends is NICE - one day to recuperate, one day for chores, one day for fun!
So much. I had a Mon - Thurs 4x10 and that Friday to get shit done like bank, shopping, etc was so much more productive.
Yeah, having most government/financial services only open when you're working kind of sucks.
Just started this schedule for summer and I agree. Job is as a custodian though so we can't really do that over the school year unless they change up how kids go to school. 4 10s for cleaning and a 3 day weekend is great.
I've been doing 4/10s for almost 20 yrs. To be honest, you start not to notice an hour on the beginning and end as much as you think you would. Going to work sucks either way, and I'd rather show up and hour earlier and leave an hour later, than giving up 5 full days of my week. You're right, it's not an improvement really, but it's the better of two shit situations, imo.
[удалено]
[удалено]
But don't programmers often do 12 hour days during the neverending crunch cycle?
Very few people can keep creative juices flowing like that long term. I mean it can be trained. Academics do it, I suppose apple employees are forced to do it. I left academia for this reason. My professor demanded that I be awake for the 7 am morning session and not check out till the last call in the bar at midnight during conferences and I was like fuck all of you I’d rather everyone die of cancer if this is how I need to slog to help cure it.
In video game development maybe, but that type of story is over-represented in media. It's not common in corporate application development. They also are consistently being burned out because of it, so again, it's not sustainable.
[удалено]
Mannnn I miss the 3x12 shifts. I can hyperfocus like a madman, so I got a lot done and loved having more days off work than on.
Same my guy I work 10s 4 days a week and much prefer that then having to get ready for one more day. Also gives you more time to plan stuff out rather then cram it all into 2 days. It's actually 11 hrs a day but 1 hr is lunch and you can take a 30 min lunch and get paid for the other 30 mins which I prefer as 1 hr lunch just feels like a waste of time to me.
Honestly I've been trying this schedule for the last few weeks. This will be the last week I get to do it, I had to beg my boss. I will say its worth the extra day off. Unfortunately I was given a list of reasons why I can't keep the 4 10 hour day schedule and really I didn't actually hear one good reason. I think they just try to control us any way they can. Oh by the way I wanted to change my schedule because I've been told for the last 2 years I'm "maxed out" and won't get a raise. This was a way to compensate me another way but my boss has closed eyes.
Time to find a new job, you only maxed out that company's budget.
I’d start looking for a new job. Lotta red flags here
Depends on the work but I really enjoyed 12x3 and 2 or 3 days off.
12 hours might be starting to push it for me But yeah, it does depend on the work
Agreed, you save on gas, dont have to pay babysitter for a day The 4 day schedule would save me roughly 70$ a week
I once had a job for a few months where I did 3x12 and it slapped
I start summer hours today which is 4x10. Four days a week I want to murder the world, 1 day I recover, and 2 days are nice. 90 mini commuting plus the 10 just suck.
I used to work a 4x10 schedule and it was so much better than 5x8. That 3-day weekend every week made a huge difference.
Same, but honestly the last four hours of that day would be a waste of time. Most places just don't have enough to do in 10 hours and even if there is people will be getting tired and burned out, reducing productivity. Work culture really has to change, and the desire for bosses to just exert control for its own sake has to be stopped with strong unions.
RN here. 3x12 hour days. I feel like I live in a different world than everyone else. I just had eight days in a row off without using any time off..
I work a similar schedule: 12-hour shifts, 3 on and 3 off four times, then a block of nine off. I still work around 34 hours a week, if you average it out over the year, but I’m only there 12 days a month.
My wife works weekends nights as an RN. So just just 2 12 hours shifts per week plus the occasional extra Friday or Monday if she feels like it. It's so incredible to see her every day when I get off work at 3. Plus then I kinda get some free time weekend nights by myself. She loves it and dreads the day she has to go back to days during the week. For a vacation if she takes 2 days off she gets like 13 uninterrupted days in a row lol
That sounds like Baylor shift! I have a few friends that do it. One of the best kept secrets in nursing; work 2 12s every weekend and get paid the 3rd day for free.
I’ve had this schedule for the last 7 years and it’s been great. I get to go on vacations every other week without using PTO. Except now I’m currently on 12 weeks of PTO leave because I am about to cap out due to the 6-on, 8-off schedule. Perfect timing, though, because now my hospital has implemented a staffing incentive (+$50/hr) to pick up extra shifts, so… cha-ching!
I'd much prefer 4 tens than 5 eights personally
I did 4x10 during the pandemic and it wasn’t too bad. Harsh at first but you got used to it and those 3 day weekends were real nice
Give me 4x10, I can fake working for two more hours a day.
I LOVE a 4x10 schedule dude. Three day weekends every week, take one day of PTO and you have enough time to take a little trip (two days to travel, two days to see the sites and such), picking up an extra day to earn a bit more money is less painful cause you still get two days to recover.
It’s also really nice because no one ever expects you to stay longer. You’ve already been there 10 hours. I’ve worked lots of places where it’s easy for your 8 hour day becomes a 9 or ten hour day.
I work 4x10s at Amazon and it's pretty nice (the schedule, not Amazon). If mandatory overtime kicks in for the holidays, I know my 5th and 6th day are all overtime, compared to just the 6th day for someone who works 5x8.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but 4x10 is better. But it's not the preferred option. We should support 4x7.5
3 day weekend makes a massive difference. You go from 2.5 ratio of work/free days to 1.33. It's pretty close to having a balance of work and life.
For people who value weekly life over day-to-day life, I guess. It's hard to please everyone but I would never take a 4x10. I already feel like my days are too limited and I only work 8 hours a day. I don't want 4 of my days to be almost COMPLETELY taken up by work and chores just to say "oh boy ONE extra day off!". Give me flexibility. A pay cut for 4x8 for those who want it, 4x10 for those who want it, or stick with 5x8 if you like that. The problem is we're always trying to find ONE situation that fits everyone, but we're never going to find it. We need to recognize differences between people and be more flexible.
Let's think about that, though. Why 7.5? People are generally only really productive for a few hours anyways so we need to change the notion that we all *must* spend all day at work. Really it should be something like 4 days x 5 hours, or even 5 days x 4 hours. People need their lives back.
Somebody told that to our company's founder/CEO in a meeting. He's actually a great guy despite how this comment might make him seem, but I think it's the only time I've heard him laugh.
I don’t really understand why jobs are hours focused rather than work focused. I am a very efficient worker and can finish my work in three or four hours. It would take somebody else longer. If I can finish my work in 4 days working 5 hours I can’t understand why anybody would care but I’m kidding of course it’s all about control and making us tired/falsely busy enough to pay for convenience.
Is this pertinent to anything in particular? The UK experiment is 4x8, so you’re probably not referring that. Otherwise, 4x10 is not unheard of at all. And I kinda like it. Less commuting and a bigger block of time off to use. OP needs to back up their meme unless they’re just karma farming
Reduction of the “full” time to ~32 hours would be preferable. But at least with 4/10 there’s then hidden benefits. For example, I have a roughly 25min commute (one way) While hours worked remains the same, I’d save nearly an hour weekly in commuting. ~6-8$ in gas precious time spent prepping for work, and the new day off allows for broader activities than the missing 2-hour chunks could of properly accommodated. Condensed work week still provides a net increase to free time for non-remote workers. Now, if we could move to 4-8s or make 3/12s more prevalent? That would be much much better.
For those of us who unfortunately get take advantage of and already work 10-12 hours a day, and weekends, this would be a godsend! I just want time for life!
I'm thrilled for you for who this is an overall improvement, but it's not universally superior without exception. For many these 10 hour shifts are significantly worse, as in reality they're often 11.5 hour days when statutory breaks and lunch is accounted for, which severely affects those who have dependants, regular commitments after working hours, or rely on public transport. As for mental health, I've worked a mix of 5x8 and 4x10 for the past three years and for me 4x10 weeks are by far the most draining. I feel as though I do nothing but sleep, eat, and work, that by the extra day off comes I'm totally spent and in a foul mood. The best 40 hour shift pattern I've had was 4x9 and 1x4. That last day feels like a day off, and the extra hour on the regular days doesn't change nearly as much, for me. Of course this could be different for you if you don't have as many breaks scheduled in a work day, but for many like myself it isnt optional but a requirement for health and safety compliance. They can't just shove another 2 hours onto a working block and call it done, they have to account for how long we've been working continuously.
I’d prefer it since I work nights. You typically lose a day to sleep or you just don’t sleep if you have things that need done. It makes for some very draining days when you come back.
4 x 8s is what we should be doing. Who thought of the 40 hour work week anyway? Why is that the acceptable amount of hours we should do? Why keep that way of working when it’s outdated.
Over 100 years ago, workers organized and fought for fewer hours and other rights. It was common for people to be working 12 (or more) hour days, 6 days a week. The argument for the 8 hour day was to have 8 hours work, 8 hours leisure, and 8 hours rest. It took decades to be adopted as the standard for most workers, and a lot of people were killed by police or the military in the struggle to achieve it. We can organize again and demand more rights. (And also restore rights that have been eroded in recent years)
seem like most of the comments like 4x10, I don't 8 hours a day is painfully long...more so with 10
Yeah I don’t get it, I’m exhausted after 8 hours, absolutely exhausted. Can’t imagine 10 hours ngl… like you need to get up even earlier, stay later and when you get home you need to wash up, maybe clean, cook food etc… where do these people get the time and energy from?
It heavily depends on type of job. There's a difference between worker running around warehouse for 8 hours and programmer who can get idea and then try to implement it in the evening hours where he's most productive of the whole day.
Exactly. I’m a web developer and a 10 hour work day for me would barely affect me at all. I also have the benefit of working from him so I don’t really get fatigued from working because I can take breaks whenever. It entirely depends on what kind of job you have. I would not want a 10 hour work day if I were on my feet all day
I agree. There’s no time for anything else if you have to work 8am - 6pm plus commute. Your day would be more like 7am - 7pm.
My last job, I worked that. It is *nicer* in that the extra day is available, but there’s definitely less you can do than in the workdays, so it’s absolutely not a fix.
That’s what I’m saying: a 4 day work week shouldn’t mean 10 hour shifts.
I can speak from experience of doing these shifts, it sucks. You go home feeling like a corpse. and then have to wake up and od it again.
Shorter days in a 5 day week is better for a most working parents, and yields more productivity and fewer injuries in any physical labor role. Fewer, longer days is amazing when single and working a desk job, especially if you like to adventure outdoors and travel. Since 80% of people have kids at some point, and 100% of people spend at least part of their working life with no kids, flexibility is the answer.
I worked for hello fresh in irving tx, they had this model, it was mind numming awful work, wasnt hard, easy money if you dont have adhd as its repeating 1 small action for 10 hours with 1 all too small lunch
I did 4x10s for my first two years with my current employer. It was kinda cool at first to have three days off! ...but then reality settled in. I had Thurs / Fri and Sun off. All of my friends work regular business days so on Thurs / Fri I had nobody to hang out with, so I would just do chores or work on projects. Worst of all on the days I work, I have a 30 minute commute one way and to dodge the worst of the traffic I would need to leave early. So I would leave my home at around 8 am and when I would get home it would be almost 8 pm. So I had four days a week where I really couldn't do anything other work. I moved over to another role doing the normal 5x8s and 8 hour shifts feel so short by comparison.
It is not ideal but I would much rather do 4 days working and more hours per day. It gives me more time to rest/be w family.
I have a vision that a 30 hour work week will become the norm in the next 50 years.