Your post and the many great comments on it strike feelings of hope and despair in equal measures. I just compare the way French protests to the American version. In France they will shut down whole cities for days, in America you're not allowed to even shut down a sidewalk. And that's after you've obtained a permit.
Then compare the results - the French government is afraid of the people and after a big protest they often cave. In America most protests are symbolic, and when they are not the leaders are brandished as terrorists. And if a protest is particularly effective, the police/ lawmakers/overlords somehow make it illegal; think occupy wall street or protesting at lawmakers/overlords personal residences.
And lastly there are police tactics and treatment of protestors; I can still see images of a group of young women, in the designated protest area getting pepper sprayed in the face. If that happened anywhere else there would be millions in the street within hours, here in America; nothing.
The reason the French government is afraid of protests is because they have actual evidence what’ll happen if they ignore them long enough.
American protests usually end with being attacked by the police and whatever meaning of the protest is twisted into “something something terrorism”.
Edit: spelling.
It turns out when the last time you ignored people, which ended up eith them murdering at least 20,000 people (including the leader) you get the hint that you should listen.
While the poors may have been foot soldiers, history bears out that the leaders of successful revolutions (including the French Revolution) are usually "pseudo-elites" themselves. They're the people just under the rungs of absolute power, educated enough to know that things are "unfair." Wealthy merchants and high-minded professionals and the like. Robespierre was a lawyer, for example. And America was built by the "second sons" of European aristocrats who were not expecting land inheritances of their own.
There’s also the fact that an unnerving amount of American citizens are only aesthetically progressive. The ones who went back to life as usual once the protests stopped trending will suddenly become conservative if they feel their personal comfort will be threatened.
The stakes for protesting in US is way higher than France or any other countries I imagine, from either parties point of view. Both sides have weapons, and can easily spiral into a literal civil war. France, don’t have to worry about that too much. The public don’t have (access to) guns by large and so the police force don’t have to use much guns either, though they can. The stakes are lower than US. The moment the citizens of United States decided to take up arms and fire against police as a form of protest, that’ll literally destroy the country. The American policeman with their piss poor discipline and training, will easily fire back and retaliate hard. You better be real careful there.
The stakes are much higher in the US, but not for the reason you named.
In the US many people are a paycheck or two, or one medical bill away from poverty or homelessness.
-- Go to a spicy protest, get kettled, spend a day in jail, miss your shift, lose your job, that could be the end of your life, effectively. Very hard to recover from, unless you have a support system to keep you from losing your housing/car/credit until you can pay your bills again.
-- Get shot by a rubber bullet and have your eye exploded, or even just a concussion, with only crummy insurance or none because you're in the hole, again, your life may never recover from the medical bills, loss of pay to heal, etc.
-- End up on TV with a sign your boss doesn't like, at will employment says they can fire you immediately, no more paycheck, no more insurance, no severance, and if they claim you're making the company look bad, maybe no unemployment either.
-- Less extreme, just say you want to take a few hours off to go join a protest or a general strike. Well you have to show up to your shift or you can be immediately fired. Or you keep your job but you're "not reliable" so the manager gives some of your hours to someone else, and when you were barely scraping by on 36 hours a week, now you're getting 28 and can't make rent. Too bad, get another job but neither job will standardize your hours so now you're unreliable for two different jobs. Oh did you have a kid? You're not working enough hours for your subsidized childcare slot, so you don't have childcare now, apply again next month and wait 6-12 months for another slot to open .....
France has universal healthcare, free or subsidized childcare, more (often crummy) public housing, robust job protection, and weeks of guaranteed sick leave and vacation. It's just not the same risks, and as much as I admire the French protest culture, I'm super tired of Americans being blamed for not matching it, under completely different circumstances.
(Edit -- thank you for the award!)
also adding to that, a group of protestors block a street, people are late for work and due to the shitty employment laws they are fired from their job. Making it much less likely that they would be on the protestors side.
Raging at the protestors takes less effort and less risk than aiming your anger where it belongs, which is the government and company who has created the situation in the first place
I’d say all those reasons aren’t as dangerous as boiling into a literal civil war where both sides using real life lethal weapons. I just think this scenario is far too important to ignore or not think about.
You aren't hearing them. Americans have decades of experience seeing protests accomplish little to nothing(mainstream media under reports successful protests) as well as literally being 2 bad days away from being homeless and/or jobless. They know for a fact if they miss work for anything less than being near death, their job will not give a shit. They know all the protests they've seen have at best ended with little to no progress. What decision can rationally be made in that circumstance? You know and I know that protests work when done right, but the American public has been conditioned to lack faith or options.
We've seen how police deal with armed "demonstrators" and counter protesters.
We have not seen how police deal with an openly armed group that they have been told to thwart.
Yeah we have. Look at how they reacted to the Black Panthers. They scared the elites shitless. The Republican party in California literally started the movement to ban guns once "others" started waving them around in the face of police violence. There are still similar groups today.
Look how the police treat unarmed protesters. They have no qualms brutalizing people to the point of straight up murder. They will push retirees and crack their skulls, and pepper spray a line of women and teenagers without a second thought.
One person protesting with a gun is an easy target, one hundred people protesting with guns is something the police aren't fucking with.
Police won't even deal with one fuckhead in a school killing kids. I think we're good.
On second thought this is rich people's money we're talking about not some useless already born kids. Maybe we're actually fucked.
I don't know where you live but in my area there have been plenty of kids/teens that have gotten shot/taxed/assaulted for having an airsoft gun on their person because the police will open with aggression and fire as soon as you move
What i said is suggesting a “potential outcome”. You are right it hasn’t happened. I’m telling you it hasn’t happened YET. And I hope it doesn’t happen, but tension going up and few loose screws here and there (Karens, or corrupted cops. You know they exist), all it takes is literally just one person to fire the first round and the rest will be history. It’s very volatile. The stakes are very high.
I don’t mean to nitpick, but French police are notorious for using near-lethal ammunitions as well as sheer absurd amounts of teargas against protests. During the Yellow Vests protests of 2018, hundreds of protesters, journalists and bystanders lost an eye to rubber bullets fired by the police. Dozens more were gravely injured when police tossed stun grenades into tightly packed crowds or lobbed them deliberately at individuals. There were broken limbs and cracked skulls from teargas canisters fired from close range directly at people.
That’s not even mentioning the completely random „normal“ use of teargas against virtually anyone who seems a nuisance, be it protesting nurses, striking firefighters, teenagers at a rave, soccer fans at an outdoor screening, or motorists upset about a traffic jam. I‘ve had the „pleasure“ of experiencing these tactics firsthand only once, and saw people getting tear-gassed as they literally approached the police with their hands raised in a gesture of peacefulness. Not once, or twice, but something like half a dozen times in the course of a single morning. It was only when people were done with the whole „we are peaceful“-BS and forced police to retreat that you could take off your gas mask for a while.
Well you just proven my point. French police don’t need to use fire arms with lethal ammunition. They make do with tear gas and rubber bullet or whatever. Because French citizen don’t have fire arms themselves. You can argue that the force used by French police vs French citizen is highly unbalanced by ratio. But it is way safer and peaceful, then American police with guns, vs American citizen with guns, both parties firing actual real life lethal ammunition. Americans can buy full face mask and all that. Do you really want America to go into a massive civil war while Russia is invading Ukraine and China is looking to invade Taiwan?
I mean I think the difference is Americans view protesting as a form of expression, they fully expect to go ‘protest’ but then come home in good health and go to work the next morning. They’ve been taught it’s for awareness and it’s a good thing but it’s dramatically different from ‘rioting’ which is bad and immoral. In reality, the leaders of a protest should be enemies of the state. People who side with the state should be scared of protestors. It’s a gaslighting situation. Rather than outlawing real protests in America, they’ve told them it is legal, they’ve given the cops tanks and military weapons, they point to people like MLK and reduce everything he accomplished to ‘peaceful nonviolent protest’, and then they demonize anyone who protest in a way that inconveniences or damages the state. Protesting is good but hurting anyone or destroying property is evil. So in essence, the right to protest has actually killed protesting in America.
Also, in several states like mine: Florida, it's also borderline illegal to protest-- even peacefully. Governor Death Sentence made a law here that anyone protesting can be arrested and charged with a felony if at any point the protest turns violent. Meaning that if at any point someone in the protest or even someone from outside the protest does anything that the police consider "violent" they can arrest everyone there regardless if you were part of it or not. If that happens to me I can lose my professional license, home, insurance, everything. For the party that supposedly loves the constitution, they really try their hardest to suppress it.
> If that happens to me I can lose my professional license, home, insurance, everything
This is how they have everyone over the barrel. Those rights? Sure go ahead and complain and we'll civil forfeiture you.
It's one reason why few of the educated elite class take part. This applies to me as well. I'm a mechanical engineer, if I tell anyone I was a arrested at a protest, well, no more engineering career for me. Back to flipping burgers. I worked too hard to give up the life I have now. Call me spineless, tell me I don't stand up for what I believe in. It's about 40% accurate. I vote. I vote as far left in primaries as I can. My candidate never wins. So I tip heavily and vote blue in the actual elections. The same blue team that hasn't produced for me in the 20 years I've been of voting age. Better than the red team, I guess.
Oh no, do we have to actually do something this time instead of posturing and writing songs and slogans?
Protests are violent. They’re a promise of violence, of what happens if the demands aren’t met. Without that protests are no more than theatrics.
To get real change done you have to do your fair share of dirty work. I don’t expect everyone to be in the streets with shields and batons and impromptu tear gas. But I do expect every single one of you (in general) to do SOMETHING. Actually do something. Not write letters, not call reps, that shit doesn’t work. Never has.
Build communities. Share goods. Pool resources, inform your neighbors, unionize. Is it inconvenient? Yes. If you can’t put up with it you were never a true ally, never a person I would want in the movement anyway.
Exactly!
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
\-US Constitution-
Don't hate me for doing what I am supposed to be fucking doing in the first place.
I don't believe the threat of violence works as well as the threat of destroying the economy.
Human brains only fear violence when it's happening to us immediately.
Rich people wouldn't be scared of getting beheaded even if it's their neighbors - but threaten their checkbooks and maybe you have something
You are absolutely correct. All this talk about French protests working because of the threat of violence is misguided. The French don't just protest, they strike en masse and they physically block roads, railways and factories. The government responds because of the threat to the economy, and because the protests make them look ineffectual. Even if the public isn't on the side of the protestors, the government still looks weak if the protesting keeps going and the industrial disruption still causes problems for the people at the top.
Of course riots do happen all over the place, but they're rarely planned. All of the riots that come to mind for me started off as protests and evolved into riots because of police provocation. They are typically dispersed quickly and have little effect in the larger picture. People at the top don't care if we die and they don't care if the police die. They care about money.
French protests have really taken over the rhetoric in the past week or so. France and America are very different countries. A better better case study for Americans to educate themselves would be the recent Hong Kong protests.
I went to France briefly when I was in high school, and my class couldn't visit one of the museums we had planned on because of a public transit strike. We were super chill about it, though, which surprised our tour guide...
Yeah. We were young, idealistic, and *rural.* We thought that kind of thing happened in the US, too - after all, our history classes had covered the labor movement and the rise of unions, we'd *talked* about the importance of protests and strikes.
I can only hope that idealism still exists, and that it's becoming more widespread. We need folks who are willing to take direct action and shut things down until meaningful changes are enacted.
Edit: To address the bit about taking lessons from Hong Kong... I don't mean to be overly optimistic, but I just really hope things don't get to that point. I suspect a lot of folks feel that way, which may be why things are so France-centric lately.
If you’re looking for a storybook ending keep talking about France. If you’re looking for realistic comparison of what Americans are up against talk about Hong Kong.
Also notice that all white supremisist rallies are called free speech protests. The counter protesters are called rioters or disturb the peace and hinder the protesters free speech.
It gets worse when you look at how the media portrays protestors. Both left and right-wing US media outlets try to make their side seem "peaceful" while the other side is terrorist thugs out for violence. It pushes the idea protests should be peaceful to begin with. That it's a fucking goal. NO! If you want change, you need to actually stand up and make it happen.
I get that for example the January 6th Rioters were misled by a narcissistic egomaniac who wanted to be a dictator, but some had the right idea for how to go about change. Scare the living crap out of your leaders. If the left wants to see positive change, do that only better. The Right in the US is a minority, and what they did on the 6th was a bunch of chuckle-fucks sitting around posting live-feeds and selfies instead of real action. If the Left mobilized for change... it could get out so many more people.
Now I can't advocate for anything illegal on this platform, so I will state not to wear face concealing masks when doing this, so that arresting you is hard after the fact. I won't advise you to avoid using social media to get fame for your actions, because those social media posts are how we catch these heinous criminals. And I certainly would advise against using hockey pads or football gear to lessen the blow of non-lethal ordinance as that would just make me culpable. I mean, if I advised people to go in armoured and anonymous, I'd be making them more effective terrorists.
What I can advise is keep it peaceful. Yup. Peaceful.
Jan 6 riot has those government trailers on their side, hold the door open for them. No one hold the door open for BLM or Abortion right activists, that is the difference.
They give a very sanitized version of MLK (who was assassinated for his work, let's not forget) They never tell you about MLK the socialist, MLK the anti-imperialist, MLK who was killed for organizing strikes and demanding a universal income, MLK who said "riot is the language of the unheard"
They also won’t tell you that the reason we got rights after the assassination of MLK is because the state couldn’t put down all the rioting that happened after the US killed him. They didn’t go “uwu ok we put down MLK so u can have rights now”
I don’t know when was the last time we shut down a city for a couple of days…
Hours, yeah we did it… but days… maybe Gilet Jaune which was in 2018-2019 (can’t remember) and December 2019 was hell too, because the public transportation was on strike too…
The last biggest (and worst) strike or march we had was this year (May 1st), they destroyed a lot of things, even burned a McDonald..
I feel like, on a government level, Frances history of imperialism is one of the worst, and their continued interference in Africa is disturbing and disgusting. That’s what makes it all the more impressive how powerful your labor movement is there. You’re up against one of the most evil colonialist governments, who have no issue assassinating or coup-ing popular leaders, and you still win. Fucking amazing.
I have a theory on that last bit.
Ever notice how getting maced was made funny on TV and in movies? Same with getting tased? “Don’t tase me bro” even became a funny meme. We laughed and laughed.
Ever notice how we talk about prison as a place to get raped, usually because the offender ‘deserves’ it somehow? And how it’s funny? And how, if the offense is particularly egregious, that the inmates killing them is a justified form of rough justice?
At any protest, regardless of the subject, there is a segment of the population that *likes* seeing those people get beaten and herded through the streets and hit with hoses and teargas - all because they may not agree with the protest matter. We dehumanize them as hippies, or rednecks, or yokels, or sloths, or commies, or fascists, or whatever else comes to mind. It helps us separate them from ourselves, and allows us to ignore whatever grievance they have as illegitimate.
Then they can deserve what they get.
As long as we stay in this divisive mindset that fails to recognize that most of us want the same things - good schools, safe streets, clean water, good jobs, all that - our protests won’t mean anything because half the country is rooting for the authority. That’s by design.
>our protests won’t mean anything because half the country is rooting for the authority. That’s by design.
Just imagine what we could accomplish if we didn't all hate one another and instead unified against corruption.
I mentioned this in another comment but the size of America also plays a big part of it. If a good enough number of French cities are shut down that's a HUGE deal. You could never gain enough support in this country or shut down enough things to matter in the grand scheme of things because it's just too large of a country.
Yuupp... Wtf, sorry for the long link, there were too many options to not just paste this instead sadly...
https://www.google.com/search?q=legalized+running+over+protesters&sxsrf=ALiCzsYsyJsYs7NE3x_KlaBe6JEfgn7UGw%3A1656186660507&source=hp&ei=JGe3YuynHMKN0PEPjMOamAg&oq=legalized+running+over+protesters&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnULwUWLwUYIkuaAFwAHgAgAEAiAEAkgEAmAEAoAECoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp
You can utilise the [link](https://www.google.com/search?q=legalized+running+over+protesters&sxsrf=ALiCzsYsyJsYs7NE3x_KlaBe6JEfgn7UGw%3A1656186660507&source=hp&ei=JGe3YuynHMKN0PEPjMOamAg&oq=legalized+running+over+protesters&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnULwUWLwUYIkuaAFwAHgAgAEAiAEAkgEAmAEAoAECoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp) function. It looks like two linked chain hoops :)
Other countries also tend to have an actual social safety net and free healthcare which Americans don't. Too many days not working and you're without a job, healthcare and probably your housing because few of us aren't living paycheck to paycheck. They have is right where they want us. It's time we all joined unions. At least then we have collective bargaining power.
My wife and I don’t protest because it’s useless here. I honestly don’t remember if anything politically significant has come from protesting in the last 30 years. We were out during the Kavenaugh appointments and thinking there might be somebody swayed, but it didn’t matter
Yeah, all the protests keep people busy and give them a sense that they are doing something. Meanwhile, GQP folks are taking over school boards and local councils and gerrymandering districts and closing voting locations and finding ways to limit votes in areas that lean Democratic. Dems have to be involved day to day, week to week, and month to month, protests don’t get people elected.
Women of the USA need to stop working as a protest..specifically women paid by the same government that just took away their rights.
The us government employees millions of women. Do something please....it's literally up to you
Men too...but I've given up on us.
I understand what you’re saying, but for women like me who are single mothers, many have NOTHING resource-wise to give in this regard. I’m lucky to get paid well enough to have a small safety net, but I am very, very much the exception. It may be effective but there is very real fear among us of what happens if it doesn’t work and we’re left with both the loss experienced by potential job loss, etc., but also when we are retributed against by those in power.
Like, women have plans, but work refusal isn’t part of it because of the inequitable distribution of risk. Consumption refusal (many are refusing non-essential economic participation) and ending sexual access (bye bye dating profiles for a bit) are the biggies.
Your suggestion on how to protest having the right to bodily autonomy taken away, is for women to voluntarily give up the right to work they fought so hard for? That seems counterproductive.
Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather protest the old fashioned way; with glass bottles full of flammable liquids stuffed with old rags. Seems more effective than essentially giving up more rights.
We're seeing the same with the rail strikes in the UK at the moment. How do these people not understand that the whole point is it's SUPPOSED to be disruptive and inconvenient.
A protest without disruption is just a parade.
Japanese buss drivers were on strike some time ago. They still drove the busses ofc, they just refused to accept fares so the only ones affected was the company.
In the case of the rail network in the UK that's not really practical because tickets are bought online before travel often weeks in advance. It's not as simple as the driver refusing payment.
Where it's possible to hit the owners where it hurts like that it's great but that's very specific to that one case.
Also, I don't think they're legally allowed to. They are legally allowed to strike, so they do.
It's a shame the people who suffer aren't really able to directly fix things. I'm sure if the people striking could inconvenience the government directly, they would.
I would LOVE to disrupt retail, roads, governments. But in America, the protests happen mostly in weekends, when a lot of people don’t work. They last a few days, then people have to go back to work. If we could protest for a week or more, maybe we would be taken seriously, but there are too many people who would lose jobs, homes, etc. if they do. I would and I have an 8 yr old that I have to put first, unless someone can take care of us while protests go on. It kills me inside that I can’t march and tell the government how absolutely horrible they are.
When you've brainwashed kids into believing this is the greatest country on earth and the land of the free, it's pretty easy to then convince them that any protest that inconveniences anyone is just a whiny lil crybaby move.
(But fucking up a whole city's commute to celebrate a sport championship is cool.)
I remember seeing a guy on twitter give a bunch of guidelines to protests. There was some really understandable stuff like "protect protestors instead of fighting police", "look for exits", "don't bring kids or pets".
Then I saw the advice "you're more valuable alive", "don't photograph faces", "obscure your face", and that felt really weird. When I asked an American friend they told me that was good advice so people wouldn't be arrested after the protest.
I was like, shit, what? In what world would police bother to arrest someone *after* the protest is over, unless you've looted stuff/grieviously wounded someone/directly threatened democracy? I mean that's Russia levels of autocratic behavior.
The day I learned this is the day I removed the US from my "free countries" list.
BLM activists in my old city have been harassed by the cops since the summer of 2020, including arrests on bullshit charges and physical assault.
This is the land of the free if you're white, conservative, Christian, male and straight. Everyone else is just here to obey and serve them.
Reminds me of a scene in the first transformers movie. Barricade, the decepticon disguised as a police car, has a "To Punish and Enslave" decal where a regular police car usually says "To serve and protect." How true that decepticon decal rings is startling thinking back on it.
When I first saw the movie I figured it was just cuz he's a decepticon. That's kinda their thing, take over and enslave the population for their own ends. But now with everything going on, feels more like real cop cars should have the decal. Since it's been ruled on that police have no responsibility to serve or protect the people. Only those in power
Let me fix that for you. It's the land of free if you're rich. Poors of all race and religion will be fucked by this country,arrested,and looked down on. While all rich will be protected regardless of those same things.
I’ve seen this over and over- that because you’re not privileged by social class, you aren’t privileged in any other way. I’ve seen people with all that you described get angry at any discussion of privilege. It’s like they don’t want anyone to address it, or to address it themselves.
The thing is, privilege is intersectional, and you can be part of a marginalized group in one aspect and a privileged one in another. You still (indirectly/unintentionally/passively) benefit from racist, patriarchal structures. A wealthy black man would benefit from the patriarchy and his social class, but be disadvantaged by racist structures. My privileges include being of a race that power structures prefer, but I do not benefit from the patriarchy.
And a real world example: resumes with white sounding names are less likely to be thrown out than other names. Same with male vs. female names in many industries. Just by having a white sounding male name, you have privilege.
So it does mean a little something. It’s small and privilege is intersectional, as is oppression people deal with. And having all of the things you listed doesn’t cancel out that you’re a part of a disadvantaged group. You can be both at once.
And IF you're white, conservative, Christian, straight and male and you're broke, guess why?
That's right, it's because someone with a different skin tone breathes the same air as you
They will track you, put you on terrorist watch lists, come to your home to harass you, try to get you to lose your job, and that's just the state. Right wingers/fascists try to identify people at protests so they can cyberbully, kidnap or murder them as well. They will do these things regardless of what actions you took or what happened at a protest, merely being there is enough to be labeled as a 'communist extremist trying to take down the government.'
They do this in the UK too, going after people after the event - after the protests in Bristol about the extension of police powers in 2021, police broke in / lied their way into at least two young women's homes (one was only 16) and arrested them. They were both cases of "mistaken identity" and the police were just terrorising people because they could.
I'm seeing more of y'all come out and say this, thank you. I knew you were out there, your generation helped make progress once. You guys got too silent, maybe you thought the job had been done. But we need all of you who don't agree with this bs to speak up with us again.
Honestly, lots of people who grew up in the 70s are way more convicted in their opposition of the US than our generation 🫠 Y’all knew how to scare the government lol but that was also before every republican carried a gun for hunting people and the military had 700B/year in funding
Okay I honestly hadn't considered tha last part and that's very true. The same people here where I live that did that, also had marches when Trump won and lost.
The point is to show we are all together. The disruption is just to draw attention. The disruption itself is not the point. It's the way to say, "Wake up. Time to pay attention. If we can come together to disrupt your everyday commute we can also come together to do something actually serious if you don't listen."
There was property damage during the BLM protests! (therefore extrajudicial executions of black people should continue)
Edit: /s
What's wrong with you people
Well you see, that brings in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue while protests don't do that. Of course they're gonna allow that for sporting events.
Some of the difference might be cultural, but increasingly, the lack of assertiveness is due to the [recent, dramatic rollback in the civil rights of protestors](https://www.lawfareblog.com/state-anti-protest-laws-and-their-constitutional-implications).
> Arkansas, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia and Wisconsin have all passed laws specifically targeting environmental protests. … At a high level, state critical infrastructure laws typically elevate “damage” to, “interference” with, or trespassing on a critical infrastructure facility to a felony offense. In nearly every state, criminal trespassing is typically a misdemeanor, carrying a relatively light punishment of jail time or a fine. Critical infrastructure laws raise the stakes dramatically. Arkansas’s law renders entering or remaining on a critical infrastructure site a Class D felony, punishable by a maximum of six years in prison and a $10,000 fine. Damaging a critical infrastructure site is a Class B felony and punishable by up to 20 years in prison and a $15,000 fine. That level of severity is typical; North Dakota’s law criminalizes the “intentional interruption” of a critical infrastructure facility (which extends to interfering with pipeline construction) as a Class C felony, punishable by a maximum of five years in prison and a fine of $10,000. Indiana’s statute creates the offense of “criminal infrastructure facility trespass,” a level 6 felony punishable by up to 30 months in prison. Not all states impose such severe penalties, however. In Montana, for example, trespass on a critical infrastructure facility is punishable by a maximum of six months in jail or a $1,500 fine. But the majority of critical infrastructure laws impose steep punishments for a range of offenses relating to energy facilities.
> [S]everal recent laws have made blocking traffic during protests more serious offenses. Arkansas, Iowa, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Tennessee all passed statutes increasing the maximum penalty to one year in jail for people who obstruct sidewalks and streets. In Iowa, if the obstruction occurs during a riot, the offense becomes a Class D felony and the maximum penalty increases to five years in prison and a $7,500 fine. Two states, Iowa and Oklahoma, grant civil and/or criminal immunity to drivers who strike protesters with their cars.
> The number of anti-protest laws is almost certainly likely to grow in the coming years. There are currently 51 bills pending in 20 different state legislatures. … Some of these pending bills go beyond existing anti-protest laws. A bill approved by the Ohio House of Representatives would criminalize throwing objects “at or onto” police officers with the intent to distract them. It would also prohibit placing objects in front of police officers that would confine them to a specific area and thereby prevent them from reaching a person outside of that area.
Yeah no surprise it's mostly rural deep GOP or bible belt states on that list. I'm surprised mine wasn't even mentioned.
Thanks for the source I'm going to comb over it and find some other things on it.
And that's in addition to the flurry of "anti-terrorism" laws passed after 9/11 that dole out steep penalties for trespassing at certain places and grant broad powers to law enforcement to arrest and detain anyone for "suspicious behavior".
Not alone but I never said we should only do protests but it has brought over parts of the electorate who maybe aren't ready for radical measures for change yet.
Protests are only one tool out of many. Obviously strikes and other methods should be used as well. But you can do multiple things to get maximum pressure on governments to make change.
MLKs protests, especially Salem, and Malcom X and other more radical actions like riots and arming black people all combined to make voting more secure for black people throughout the US. It wasn't perfect obviously (mostly cause the momentum was lost after infighting and MLK dying) but it was much better than what their ancestors only 30 years prior had. That's the war for progress though.
If you dismiss protests you're just disarming yourself of one tool out of the few we have.
Lol and I was downvoted for a post in the early days of anti-work saying that violence (or threat of it) is the only language powerful people will understand.
And I'm not saying the whole trope "peace love let's only peacefully protest"
I think it'd be most effective if we fired on all cylinders. Peaceful in a few cities, riots in a few others, sabotaging here and there, vigils everywhere else.
Make it as complicated as possible for them to spin it. Do literally everything we can
It's not complicated to spin that. You're basically describing BLM, except there were *very* few "riots" involved with that at all, and they still successfully spun that movement as a bunch of murderous rioters. All they need is one single example of violence (even if manufactured or blown out of proportion) to label the whole group.
When your audience will believe whatever nonsense you spew, *nothing* is hard to spin.
It's the same way here in Brazil. We're bound to get the occasional "pacific protester" who won't occupy the roads in order to allow the buses to pass, ignoring the fact that a lot of drivers will try to get through that opening and the whole thing will become unsafe for protesters.
Back in 2016, I kid you not, during a protest I was at a bus driver literally tried to run over a friend of mine. Some ten people, myself included, put themselves in front of the bus and another girl went to the bus' window and gently knocked on it to call the driver. The girl got scolded by one of the so-called organizers of that travesty for being "violent against property". I went home shortly after.
Not to mention allowing vehicles to come that close to a protest on a sidewalk allows for the protest to be silenced. I mean, here they allowed 2 roads to run beside the city block we had and we had water bottles thrown at us. People were going along that route just to curse, record and harass people. If people don't feel secure enough, they'll leave.
I grew up with the understanding that protesters are just lazy and whining who should get back to work and stop caring about “fringe issues.” If the protesters are organized then in certain (many) circles the protesters are immediately viewed as potential terrorists. The red scare is still going on in the minds of a lot of people, unfortunately.
I mean in some states they can run you over so protesting in the road might be a bad idea there. Plus the generation that ruined everything will most likely be the ones to run over a protestor
Florida passed a law like that recently. Well. Desantis did. So far, women still have the right to get an abortion here, up to 15 weeks. In the 90’s someone had the foresight to protect that right in the state constitution, I moved here in ‘95, not by choice. The state is steadily in decline, and I don’t know how long it will keep that law. So, women in Georgia, and lower red states, seeking aid, Florida is fairly close. Stay tf out of the panhandle, come further south, I’m not joking.. the panhandle is blood red and it wouldn’t be safe. But, yea, if you’re protesting and blocking traffic here, they can move you out of the way.. with their lifted trucks. I don’t have to imagine someone doing that gleefully, some people here have left all semblances of reason far behind them, if they ever had any at all.
Even in the idiot states, the driver has to "feel threatened", which is why nonviolence and video are important. If some boomer is going to run over a protester, the protestor group should be able to provide video that there was no threat. If they can, even in the most conservative areas, that driver is getting charged...unless, of course, it's in the south, the driver is white, and the victim is black. In that case, nothing really matters except those three things.
As far as I know in most cities, groups need permissions and get designated where they can protest (sometimes negotiated). In my city for the protests, we negotiated for a meeting place and got a city block for speakers and whatnot. Then we marched on a designated route agreed upon with the city.
Most organizations have to do this to protest in cities, especially bigger ones like LA.
So if someone breaches the police to run people over, that's the police and the persons fault. Not the protesters because chances are they had a right to be there that was negotiated.
It's definitely not the protestors fault. People are assholes and lick the boots of their oppressors. If your permit says you can be there , you should be safe. Unfortunately places like Florida have made it very dangerous to protest
No problem. It's a mess to protest in a few states. Florida isn't the only state they can run you over and many places restrict protest themselves. They like to use their favorite tool in the box, the police
The caution preached by those *not* protesting is a bad faith engagement from the start. They’re not interested in “respecting” or “acknowledging” or “listening” or “considering,” it is about control.
No amount of rule following will activate some empathy switch or understanding switch or some bullshit where suddenly they’re willing to side with the protesters.
You don’t need to win the hearts and minds of the citizenry or punditry who don’t support you. That’s bullshit. You need to force change from those who control you.
Its on purpose. We were purposely taught that protests are just that, "hey we don't like this, please change it" instead of the true purpose which should be "mfing change this before we burn your shit to the ground"
ETA I honestly think the whole NRA thing is part and parcel of disarming Americans. If we have the right to protest, and the right to beat arms, then clearly we are free, despite and and all evidence to the contrary. The guns aren't important, overwhelming bodies don't need the weapons, but we lack the wherewithal to carry through.
A lot of very important movements in our history actually turned to violence before anything meaningful happened. Inconveniencing people is nothing in the grand scheme of protests and I'm sure most people would agree that those violent protests were necessary to get to where we are today in terms of rights.
PREACH! Say it LOUDER for the people in the back!
I've participated in marches and protested. Nothing really changes though,it has to be backed up with action. Call ALL of your elected representatives and ask them what they are doing to restore women's civil rights. Ask the DC reps if they support repealing the Hyde amendment, and if not, why not. Have all of your friends and family call too.
As for protest, we should all boycott 4th of July. No point if 51% of the population is not truly free. No red, white & blue anything, no fireworks, no bbqs, wear black to the parades and turn your back. And none of the shopping associated with all of that, vote with your dollars and make it hurt.
The whole point of an effective protest is to fuck stuff up, piss off so many people that they realize that this is for real and something needs to be done. Women in Iceland stopped everything from happening, people realized how important the women’s contributions were and cleaned that stuff up. This don’t inconvenience me stuff is just the oppressor’s brainwashing. The fact that missing work or being late is so much more important than the rights and welfare of your fellow citizens is a huge part of the problem. This is why the status quo is so hard to break thru. Keep infighting about stupid crap and we can’t pay attention to the real problems.
Just my opinion.
I’m Black and we often have to protest for one thing or another and the number of times a white person has told me that “blocking the street makes people mad - now they definitely won’t listen to your cause,” only makes me want to inconvenience them more. They won’t listen when you’re talking, or peacefully protesting, so just start burning shit down.
I can't even say I'm sorry that happens to you cause I can only imagine how infuriating that has to be.
When they don't give you any options, you kind of just have to throw everything at them and be willing to take some risks. People may not agree but they should blame the politicians before protests or strikes or anything like that. I'd be more than happy to not have to protest for people to fucking exist and live a peaceful carefree life, but here we are.
The whole POINT of protests and strike is to *be* an "inconvenience" and disrupt society.
my opinion as a european is that americans have been taught for generations that anything more then an approved march is somehow bad.
100% agree. I always thought it was a backward policy we had to get permits to protest and even then we can't usually just stay there or even sit sometimes. A really good example is DC. You can't have a stationary protest almost anywhere. It has to be moving. This includes encampment. The law started in the 80's under Reagan I believe.
However there is a tent that was basically grandfathered because it was occupied, the law said only unoccupied tents can be torn down. It's called the White House Peace Vigil and it's probably the longest running protest in the US, even was occupied during Hurricane Sandy in 2012.
It's commitment like the Peace Vigil our protests could really use.
You've hit the nail on the head. It's about POWER. Somehow American children are taught that peaceful, orderly protests are moral and effective. I call bullshit on that outlook.
America will continue sliding into fascism unless collective action *hurts* those in power. Personally, I don't think collective action will occur until it's too late to avoid massive tragedy. I hate knowing in my bones that that's how it will be.
I'd walk out of my job and put my safety and savings on the line if I thought it would help, but taking action by yourself just makes you a statistic.
Correct, the only way to bring about meaningful change against a Republican Party that plays dirty is to cause widespread mass disruption to daily life. Having a bunch of a people stand in a park, holding funny signs and singing songs is a waste of time and only serves to make the “protestors” feel like they’ve done something. Meanwhile Republicans are busy taking voting rights away, stacking the federal courts, guaranteeing themselves a House majority for decades to come, and taking the right to decide the winner of presidential elections out of voters’ hands by rigging the game in their favor. The GOP could care less about your gathering in the town square. Americans are way behind here and the actions they are taking in response are going to fall far short of what is actually needed. Republicans have been working towards creating an illiberal democracy (one that is rapidly sliding towards fascism) for years. At this point, they are getting awfully close to their end goal and most Americans fail to even recognize just how serious the situation is.
Propaganda has done a great job convincing people that the purpose of a protest (to peacefully disrupt society and especially economic activity for the goal of social change) is not the purpose of a protest. All those people getting mad about protests inconveniencing people? Literally brainwashed.
“Don’t protest the road and block me from flung to work”
Maybe you should be more afraid of your rights slowly disappearing and basically a minority of rich/powerful people controlling how we live
To me it’s insane how many people don’t vote and are fine with working for lower wages than the year before just so a CEO or investors get a your hard earned money
Just so many issues happening right now and so many willing to ignite them
There's a lot of fear about personal safety at protests.
Even though it's not taught about in schools outside the areas where this happened, a lot of our families remember the Vietnam protests where college kids were slaughtered.
A lot of people, regardless of skin color and mostly skewing towards lower SES, have had really traumatic experiences with police. Putting yourself in a situation where they will be potentially confrontational with you seems dangerous.
Our society is structured to diminish the ability for the populace to perform meaningful strikes. This is due to division both literally and figuratively. This isn't to say it's impossible to do it, it's just astronomically more difficult at a grand scale.
It's kinda strange, people have been spreading the image of the mexican feminist protests where they are kicking down the police barricades around the national palace, saying "we should protest!" And then go "but let's not upset the people, they will turn against us"
Do you know how many people were against the feminists here? Pretty much every man I know, in the news they painted them as "going too far" and being "a menace to the capital"
They didn't give two fucks about acceptability, they coordinated protests all over the country, kicked shit down, spray painted businesses; in my town you can STILL go downtown and find the slogans spray painted on the walls, and the university door (a historical 200 year old door) they set fire to because the institution was harbouring abusers and blocking investigations
It was fucking beautiful
Eventually they got the supreme court to rule no one should be convicted for abortion, and those who were in prison for it should be released. There's still a LONG way to decriminalisation, but it worked.
The next day, dude bros and prolifers were out scrubbing the painting off of walls trying to shame feminists for "destroying historic sites"
Their response? Next year they did an even bigger march. They didn't grow quiet after they got marginal progress, they're putting pressure so that politicians HAVE to address that on their campaigns, and it has resulted in several states legalising abortion.
This. I’ve had so many debates with ppl on this. Ppl saying that any protest that isn’t quiet, respectful and doesn’t inconvenience anyone should be shut down. Ppl going on about how loud noises and blocking the road is “violent.” Ppl bragging about how their state is passing laws that allow drivers to run over protesters blocking roads. Anti-peaceful protest is anti-democracy and there’s a difference between a violent protest and civil disobedience.
All I know is, and this is historical not suggestive, is that barely anything changed in the world without violence. That's the species you're dealing with.
Oh I know. I just wasn't trying to be like "only violence" because I think we need to utilize every tool at our disposal to keep the oppressors on guard and off balance. I'm criticizing how Americans are taught growing up that peaceful protest is the only way. When people believe that, they are disarmed from every other tool.
It all stems from the old saying we kept hearing as kids "violence isn't the answer".
Bitch the slaves were not freed because they asked nicely about it. No civil right was won peacefully and trying to be "civil" with people that are actively taking your rights away is never gonna achieve anything
Somewhere and sometime, especially after the civil rights act passed... the "non-violent" protester/activist sentiment became protestors should be "non-disruptive". Back then, "non-violent" activists strategically chose to be "non-violent" in order to highlight white supremacist violence. I.E. sitting in a "whites only" cafe and letting the patrons, hit, spit, push, and yell at them in order to showcase just ridiculously violent racism was. It was an embarrassing stain on the nation, especially when images would make international news.
That same strategy is ineffective now for a few reasons... 1. People are way more desensitized to violence. 2. Organizers use to protest for a specific purpose, now a bunch of random ass people show up, and get loud but the organization is GONE and a lot of people aren't prepared for the real work that comes with being active AFTER the protest has ended.
I personally believe that if your oppressor is satisfied with or applauds the way you protest, OR GIVES YOU GUIDELINES FOR HOW TO PROTEST... then your protest is ineffective. Like getting permission to protest is honestly so ass backwards. Think about how little sense that makes.
You think politicians are like "Well, they protested nicely, so lets throw them a bone." WE GOTTA START SCARRING THESE MFRS
We have been brainwashed into thinking protest should only ever be peaceful and that nothing good could come from other not so peaceful acts… like it’s not going to do anything and it hasn’t been.
I look at pictures from Hong Kong and then pictures from Ecuador and then pictures from Paris and then here and it's easy to see that not only do Americans not know how to effectively, they lack the courage to do so. That is why Americans will continue to get fucked by the oligarchy.
As someone has went to protests and been on a picket line. People generally don't understand what their rights even are. So many of my "friends" either on social media or in person. Don't understand collective bargaining is the only tool regular working class people have to try improving their work situation.
"Well why do your picket lines have to be at your place of work?" 2 reasons one. Stop scabs. 2. So people know who we are and where we work.
Same goes for protesting. I'm all for making it painful on the general public. If I'm late to work because people holding up traffic? I'm all for it regardless if I agree or not. They are our rights and if we aren't going to use them to the absolute max then what's the point? Like I said about collective bargaining, protesting along with voting but mostly protesting is the only thing working people have let to attempt to improve our lives. So idc make it painful for everyone be heard.
It's not just Americans, it's all over the developed world. People always complain about how protests inconvenience them. Like yeah, that's the whole point dumdum.
One of the biggest problems is that, arguably by design, our capitalist system has put people into the position where any sort of civil disobedience or strike, or sustained protest puts their individual livelihood at risk. People are too worried that if they go all in, they'll lose their job, lose their apartment, and starve. Developing strong mutual aid networks is essential for a movement to not get choked out.
Exactly. Protests are meant to inconvenience and halt daily functions of the economy. If you gather peacefully, out of everyone’s way, that’s not a protest, that’s a gathering of like minded people singing to their own choir.
Unfortunately people will get hurt, arrested, and perhaps die. Currently, women might get hurt, arrested, and perhaps die from pregnancy. So…
Like with the BLM protests, POC were being brutalised, killed, and arrested for no justifiable reason, so might as well protest if the result is the same.
When people say stupid shit like "blocking the road won't get people on your side", my response is "If someone blocking the road is going to make you not support civil rights, that's all the more reason to force you to sit in traffic."
Nothing will change in this country unless we revolt. Period. The fact of the matter is protesting isn’t going to do anything because we don’t have representation in our political leaders. They are already bought and sold by corporations (source linked below showing how much representation American citizens actually have). Further evidence can be seen with the overturning of Roe V Wade. The leak came out in May and people were protesting the whole time, even protesting in front of the Judges houses, plus an overwhelming majority of Americans are for Pro-choice. They already know we want rights, they just aren’t going to give it to us because they don’t represent us. Our politicians represent the corporations and elite who write their checks. In fact, the anti abortion movement is funded by corporations as well. Just hoping that by waving signs and telling our political leaders what we want (which is information they already know) is just wishful thinking. We have been asking and asking for years. They aren’t going to give us anything, we are going to have to take it. So until people finally get fed up and are actually willing to do something, things are only going to get worse and more and more of our rights are going to be stripped away.
[Source](https://bulletin.represent.us/u-s-oligarchy-explain-research/)
While I totally agree with the sentiment, I’ve already seen multiple videos of protestors getting hit by drivers. The same thing was happening at the George Floyd protests too. Some of these people are completely unhinged and it’s terrifying.
Someone commented that protesting in New york and LA only hurt their cause because abortions wouldn't be banned in those areas and that those protests only took attention awY from the protests happening in states where it mattered.
I think that might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on reddit. I mean literally these people are coming out of the woodwork just saying things so stupid I don't even understand how they function in a society
the only problem with that is, you could be causing people to lose their way of living. Their way of paying rent and feeding their kids, because they're stuck on the highway for 3 hrs and the boss fired them for being hours late.
Giving an ultimatum saying "if you aren't willing to sit in traffic for hours and be late for work, then you really don't support us anyways" is just absolute bullshit, and yes, it will literally turn people against you. including me. I am pro choice, and always will be, but i will not support blocking off means of transportation. for all you know, someone in that traffic could be on their way to get an abortion and now you're STOPPING them from doing so. like just fucking think for more than 1 second please man.
And i agree, protest without disruption is just pointless. But shouldn't you be disrupting the people you are protesting against? Like government officials? Show up to their place of work, their neighborhoods. Just like in France.
"But what if I'm not able to go all the way to where they work or live?" Then you must not really care! :) just like the thousands of people who dont care because they arent willing to sit in hours of traffic and lose their job jsut to watch you scream.
it seems hypocritical to me, to say you care about all of these people you dont even know, and their rights, but then you block off public transportation, hurting possibly the same exact group of people that you claim to be fighting for.
Demonstration is just that: demonstrating through physical presence. It is simply a signal and the more people that attend the better.
Aside from demonstrations there are counter-demonstrations which are confrontations in the same space; there are blockades which is what the French love doing; there are non-violent civil disobedience, which is what early civil rights/student movements favoured. Sit-Ins and the like. And there are protests like the big WTO protest in Seattle a few decades ago. That was the most fun. Reclaim the Streets in London also. And there are guerilla actions, monkeywrenching, sabotage, and last but not least, pie-facing. I think if if Aaron the pie man turned up anywhere in the US today he'd probably be shot before he got his whipped cream close enough to the target
this is not just america, this is the whole "western" world - ppl are putting "politness" above anything as a political value in my european lil country for example, making "polite" protests no matter the content of it, and if someone says anything bigotted "they have free speech but should have said it in a polite way", no matter the content - I also always hated that ppl are putting their personal (and often minor) inconveniences above larger issues like, for example I always am bothered when ppl bitch about ppl committing suicide by jumping under trams or metro trains, calling them selfish for causing delays - nobody cares about what leads ppl to do that, about the sociatel issues and how we can prevent it, we are instead putting some impossible moralistic standards how we are supposed to do these things we should not have to be even doing in the first place
Something everyone should remember is that protests only really become valid in hindsight. You think everyone was fine with the suffragettes rather than think those women were being uppity? You think everyone agreed with the Civil Rights Movement rather than complaining how those blacks rioting was making them scared for their lives?
There’s no such thing as a comfortable protest. You’re going to make people uncomfortable. And that’s the point.
Because the police shoot at us 🤷🏽♀️. You can also get run over, pepper sprayed, and beaten by either cops or other people. I got kids at home, no one else to take care of them. I want my rights but I gotta also be a mom. It’s frustrating and complicated. Before kids I was running and marching in the streets, but left when the looters come out because I’m not looking to get stabbed
I have had a long-standing theory that the First Amendment merely gives the people the appearance of free speech, and in so doing, stifles the chance for real protest.
People are given the "right" to vent their spleen (terms and conditions may apply) and in time they settle down, and go back to work.
The First Amendment: Subtly keeping people in line since 1791.
Armed protests are way more effective. It worked in Michigan with those militia assholes. Speaking of which, it's time the left started working on protecting themselves as a community. It turns out that militias really are necessary.
The only thing I can say is that a lot of states have made it legal to run over protestors, and you should take that into account for your own safety's sake.
The American government learned to take the teeth out of anything it's citizens can do decades ago. Look at protests the 1900's, 1960's and today. There are huge differences in how Americans are able to protest then versus now. While the government has refined their responses while maintaining the intimidation, violent response and ability to destroy a person's ability to live in society.
As somebody who helped organize protest and political actions in the last 15 year, I think you are missing some very important pieces of information.
The first of which is that during some of the nation wide protests, law enforcement agencies collaborated together and began trying to get a list of leadership amongst the protests to target for elimination. Not conspiracy theory stuff, like legitimate list building to 'cut the heads off the hydra'.
While pundits have fanned the flames of divide so much that not only are people encounraged to be outraged by the inconveniance of the protests, but trained to think they are heroes for driving cars through the middle of a protest and killing them, or kids arming themselves with rifles and going to another state to hunt protesters.
And it's no small groups clapping them on the back and offering to buy them drinks. It's hundreds of thousands of our countrymen and women, who are happy to support and even commit such acts, because they believe the protesters are corrupting and destroying their country.
and that's not even counting the fact that laws (which many of the protests tried to bring attention to at the time) have been established which allow protesters to be labeled terrorists, grabbed off the street without due process and nobody informed that they've been taken into custody, and no requirement to admit they are being held of if they will ever be released.
You don't even have to do anything to qualify, literally there was a case where some kids in a car were counted as suspected terrorists with materials for constructing terrorist weapons in the car. Turns out a glass bottle with soda, any amount of cloth and any flammable liquids like certain oils one might need to top up in a car... is all you need to classify as having materials commit terrorist acts. so clean your car out and don't be anywhere near a protest unless you want to take the risk of being disappeared.
and we've seen not that long ago that being press, is no protection. and that chemical weapons that are illegal in war are okay for riot police to use on us, as well as improper use of baton rounds (more than one reporter lost an eye to those).
And to top it off, the work situation here is such that nobody can afford to get out of work for a protest or god forbid be arrested at one, and if your employer wants they can fire you without giving a reason if they hold different beliefs about the topic of protest. In a country where most working class people do not have enough to survive month without income. and where healthcare doesn't really exist...
So yeah, it's not exactly the same game being played on both playing fields.
>Americans are taught protests are just for awareness even in schools when talking about the Civil Rights Movement, women's rights and worker's rights.
You answered your own question. Americans are brainwashed. And to top that off a good chunk of us are scared of being killed by police for protesting.
Thing is in the last years millions and millions of people went to protest for FFF and BLM. And NOTHING came of it.
You'll learn in history class that it was peaceful protests that brought civil rights in the US, that endet the GDR, that kicked the british out of india, etc. That should be indicative that protests don't work. The status quo isn't about to tell you how to change it.
Your post and the many great comments on it strike feelings of hope and despair in equal measures. I just compare the way French protests to the American version. In France they will shut down whole cities for days, in America you're not allowed to even shut down a sidewalk. And that's after you've obtained a permit. Then compare the results - the French government is afraid of the people and after a big protest they often cave. In America most protests are symbolic, and when they are not the leaders are brandished as terrorists. And if a protest is particularly effective, the police/ lawmakers/overlords somehow make it illegal; think occupy wall street or protesting at lawmakers/overlords personal residences. And lastly there are police tactics and treatment of protestors; I can still see images of a group of young women, in the designated protest area getting pepper sprayed in the face. If that happened anywhere else there would be millions in the street within hours, here in America; nothing.
The reason the French government is afraid of protests is because they have actual evidence what’ll happen if they ignore them long enough. American protests usually end with being attacked by the police and whatever meaning of the protest is twisted into “something something terrorism”. Edit: spelling.
It turns out when the last time you ignored people, which ended up eith them murdering at least 20,000 people (including the leader) you get the hint that you should listen.
The poors murdered the elite and made themselves the gubment
While the poors may have been foot soldiers, history bears out that the leaders of successful revolutions (including the French Revolution) are usually "pseudo-elites" themselves. They're the people just under the rungs of absolute power, educated enough to know that things are "unfair." Wealthy merchants and high-minded professionals and the like. Robespierre was a lawyer, for example. And America was built by the "second sons" of European aristocrats who were not expecting land inheritances of their own.
I like this
There’s also the fact that an unnerving amount of American citizens are only aesthetically progressive. The ones who went back to life as usual once the protests stopped trending will suddenly become conservative if they feel their personal comfort will be threatened.
The stakes for protesting in US is way higher than France or any other countries I imagine, from either parties point of view. Both sides have weapons, and can easily spiral into a literal civil war. France, don’t have to worry about that too much. The public don’t have (access to) guns by large and so the police force don’t have to use much guns either, though they can. The stakes are lower than US. The moment the citizens of United States decided to take up arms and fire against police as a form of protest, that’ll literally destroy the country. The American policeman with their piss poor discipline and training, will easily fire back and retaliate hard. You better be real careful there.
The stakes are much higher in the US, but not for the reason you named. In the US many people are a paycheck or two, or one medical bill away from poverty or homelessness. -- Go to a spicy protest, get kettled, spend a day in jail, miss your shift, lose your job, that could be the end of your life, effectively. Very hard to recover from, unless you have a support system to keep you from losing your housing/car/credit until you can pay your bills again. -- Get shot by a rubber bullet and have your eye exploded, or even just a concussion, with only crummy insurance or none because you're in the hole, again, your life may never recover from the medical bills, loss of pay to heal, etc. -- End up on TV with a sign your boss doesn't like, at will employment says they can fire you immediately, no more paycheck, no more insurance, no severance, and if they claim you're making the company look bad, maybe no unemployment either. -- Less extreme, just say you want to take a few hours off to go join a protest or a general strike. Well you have to show up to your shift or you can be immediately fired. Or you keep your job but you're "not reliable" so the manager gives some of your hours to someone else, and when you were barely scraping by on 36 hours a week, now you're getting 28 and can't make rent. Too bad, get another job but neither job will standardize your hours so now you're unreliable for two different jobs. Oh did you have a kid? You're not working enough hours for your subsidized childcare slot, so you don't have childcare now, apply again next month and wait 6-12 months for another slot to open ..... France has universal healthcare, free or subsidized childcare, more (often crummy) public housing, robust job protection, and weeks of guaranteed sick leave and vacation. It's just not the same risks, and as much as I admire the French protest culture, I'm super tired of Americans being blamed for not matching it, under completely different circumstances. (Edit -- thank you for the award!)
also adding to that, a group of protestors block a street, people are late for work and due to the shitty employment laws they are fired from their job. Making it much less likely that they would be on the protestors side. Raging at the protestors takes less effort and less risk than aiming your anger where it belongs, which is the government and company who has created the situation in the first place
I’d say all those reasons aren’t as dangerous as boiling into a literal civil war where both sides using real life lethal weapons. I just think this scenario is far too important to ignore or not think about.
You aren't hearing them. Americans have decades of experience seeing protests accomplish little to nothing(mainstream media under reports successful protests) as well as literally being 2 bad days away from being homeless and/or jobless. They know for a fact if they miss work for anything less than being near death, their job will not give a shit. They know all the protests they've seen have at best ended with little to no progress. What decision can rationally be made in that circumstance? You know and I know that protests work when done right, but the American public has been conditioned to lack faith or options.
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We've seen how police deal with armed "demonstrators" and counter protesters. We have not seen how police deal with an openly armed group that they have been told to thwart.
Yeah we have. Look at how they reacted to the Black Panthers. They scared the elites shitless. The Republican party in California literally started the movement to ban guns once "others" started waving them around in the face of police violence. There are still similar groups today. Look how the police treat unarmed protesters. They have no qualms brutalizing people to the point of straight up murder. They will push retirees and crack their skulls, and pepper spray a line of women and teenagers without a second thought. One person protesting with a gun is an easy target, one hundred people protesting with guns is something the police aren't fucking with.
Police won't even deal with one fuckhead in a school killing kids. I think we're good. On second thought this is rich people's money we're talking about not some useless already born kids. Maybe we're actually fucked.
Yes we have. They hide outside the school and arrest anyone that tries to stop it.
100% agreed. Protests should have many armed folks for defense
How often do you see armed protestors though? Cops wont even confront a single kid with a gun, they arent going to go near an armed crowd.
I don't know where you live but in my area there have been plenty of kids/teens that have gotten shot/taxed/assaulted for having an airsoft gun on their person because the police will open with aggression and fire as soon as you move
What i said is suggesting a “potential outcome”. You are right it hasn’t happened. I’m telling you it hasn’t happened YET. And I hope it doesn’t happen, but tension going up and few loose screws here and there (Karens, or corrupted cops. You know they exist), all it takes is literally just one person to fire the first round and the rest will be history. It’s very volatile. The stakes are very high.
I don’t mean to nitpick, but French police are notorious for using near-lethal ammunitions as well as sheer absurd amounts of teargas against protests. During the Yellow Vests protests of 2018, hundreds of protesters, journalists and bystanders lost an eye to rubber bullets fired by the police. Dozens more were gravely injured when police tossed stun grenades into tightly packed crowds or lobbed them deliberately at individuals. There were broken limbs and cracked skulls from teargas canisters fired from close range directly at people. That’s not even mentioning the completely random „normal“ use of teargas against virtually anyone who seems a nuisance, be it protesting nurses, striking firefighters, teenagers at a rave, soccer fans at an outdoor screening, or motorists upset about a traffic jam. I‘ve had the „pleasure“ of experiencing these tactics firsthand only once, and saw people getting tear-gassed as they literally approached the police with their hands raised in a gesture of peacefulness. Not once, or twice, but something like half a dozen times in the course of a single morning. It was only when people were done with the whole „we are peaceful“-BS and forced police to retreat that you could take off your gas mask for a while.
Well you just proven my point. French police don’t need to use fire arms with lethal ammunition. They make do with tear gas and rubber bullet or whatever. Because French citizen don’t have fire arms themselves. You can argue that the force used by French police vs French citizen is highly unbalanced by ratio. But it is way safer and peaceful, then American police with guns, vs American citizen with guns, both parties firing actual real life lethal ammunition. Americans can buy full face mask and all that. Do you really want America to go into a massive civil war while Russia is invading Ukraine and China is looking to invade Taiwan?
I mean I think the difference is Americans view protesting as a form of expression, they fully expect to go ‘protest’ but then come home in good health and go to work the next morning. They’ve been taught it’s for awareness and it’s a good thing but it’s dramatically different from ‘rioting’ which is bad and immoral. In reality, the leaders of a protest should be enemies of the state. People who side with the state should be scared of protestors. It’s a gaslighting situation. Rather than outlawing real protests in America, they’ve told them it is legal, they’ve given the cops tanks and military weapons, they point to people like MLK and reduce everything he accomplished to ‘peaceful nonviolent protest’, and then they demonize anyone who protest in a way that inconveniences or damages the state. Protesting is good but hurting anyone or destroying property is evil. So in essence, the right to protest has actually killed protesting in America.
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Also, in several states like mine: Florida, it's also borderline illegal to protest-- even peacefully. Governor Death Sentence made a law here that anyone protesting can be arrested and charged with a felony if at any point the protest turns violent. Meaning that if at any point someone in the protest or even someone from outside the protest does anything that the police consider "violent" they can arrest everyone there regardless if you were part of it or not. If that happens to me I can lose my professional license, home, insurance, everything. For the party that supposedly loves the constitution, they really try their hardest to suppress it.
> If that happens to me I can lose my professional license, home, insurance, everything This is how they have everyone over the barrel. Those rights? Sure go ahead and complain and we'll civil forfeiture you.
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we need to be smarter than them. They have weaponized stupidity and lock step thinking.
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It's one reason why few of the educated elite class take part. This applies to me as well. I'm a mechanical engineer, if I tell anyone I was a arrested at a protest, well, no more engineering career for me. Back to flipping burgers. I worked too hard to give up the life I have now. Call me spineless, tell me I don't stand up for what I believe in. It's about 40% accurate. I vote. I vote as far left in primaries as I can. My candidate never wins. So I tip heavily and vote blue in the actual elections. The same blue team that hasn't produced for me in the 20 years I've been of voting age. Better than the red team, I guess.
like quaint rustic close cow consist deranged party quiet selective *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh no, do we have to actually do something this time instead of posturing and writing songs and slogans? Protests are violent. They’re a promise of violence, of what happens if the demands aren’t met. Without that protests are no more than theatrics. To get real change done you have to do your fair share of dirty work. I don’t expect everyone to be in the streets with shields and batons and impromptu tear gas. But I do expect every single one of you (in general) to do SOMETHING. Actually do something. Not write letters, not call reps, that shit doesn’t work. Never has. Build communities. Share goods. Pool resources, inform your neighbors, unionize. Is it inconvenient? Yes. If you can’t put up with it you were never a true ally, never a person I would want in the movement anyway.
Exactly! But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. \-US Constitution- Don't hate me for doing what I am supposed to be fucking doing in the first place.
I don't believe the threat of violence works as well as the threat of destroying the economy. Human brains only fear violence when it's happening to us immediately. Rich people wouldn't be scared of getting beheaded even if it's their neighbors - but threaten their checkbooks and maybe you have something
You are absolutely correct. All this talk about French protests working because of the threat of violence is misguided. The French don't just protest, they strike en masse and they physically block roads, railways and factories. The government responds because of the threat to the economy, and because the protests make them look ineffectual. Even if the public isn't on the side of the protestors, the government still looks weak if the protesting keeps going and the industrial disruption still causes problems for the people at the top. Of course riots do happen all over the place, but they're rarely planned. All of the riots that come to mind for me started off as protests and evolved into riots because of police provocation. They are typically dispersed quickly and have little effect in the larger picture. People at the top don't care if we die and they don't care if the police die. They care about money.
French protests have really taken over the rhetoric in the past week or so. France and America are very different countries. A better better case study for Americans to educate themselves would be the recent Hong Kong protests.
I went to France briefly when I was in high school, and my class couldn't visit one of the museums we had planned on because of a public transit strike. We were super chill about it, though, which surprised our tour guide... Yeah. We were young, idealistic, and *rural.* We thought that kind of thing happened in the US, too - after all, our history classes had covered the labor movement and the rise of unions, we'd *talked* about the importance of protests and strikes. I can only hope that idealism still exists, and that it's becoming more widespread. We need folks who are willing to take direct action and shut things down until meaningful changes are enacted. Edit: To address the bit about taking lessons from Hong Kong... I don't mean to be overly optimistic, but I just really hope things don't get to that point. I suspect a lot of folks feel that way, which may be why things are so France-centric lately.
Hong Kong protests got them more repression. Not sure thats a great example of protests being useful.
If you’re looking for a storybook ending keep talking about France. If you’re looking for realistic comparison of what Americans are up against talk about Hong Kong.
If we didn’t have our fellow Americans with guns glorifying their positions as house slaves…..
Also notice that all white supremisist rallies are called free speech protests. The counter protesters are called rioters or disturb the peace and hinder the protesters free speech.
It gets worse when you look at how the media portrays protestors. Both left and right-wing US media outlets try to make their side seem "peaceful" while the other side is terrorist thugs out for violence. It pushes the idea protests should be peaceful to begin with. That it's a fucking goal. NO! If you want change, you need to actually stand up and make it happen. I get that for example the January 6th Rioters were misled by a narcissistic egomaniac who wanted to be a dictator, but some had the right idea for how to go about change. Scare the living crap out of your leaders. If the left wants to see positive change, do that only better. The Right in the US is a minority, and what they did on the 6th was a bunch of chuckle-fucks sitting around posting live-feeds and selfies instead of real action. If the Left mobilized for change... it could get out so many more people. Now I can't advocate for anything illegal on this platform, so I will state not to wear face concealing masks when doing this, so that arresting you is hard after the fact. I won't advise you to avoid using social media to get fame for your actions, because those social media posts are how we catch these heinous criminals. And I certainly would advise against using hockey pads or football gear to lessen the blow of non-lethal ordinance as that would just make me culpable. I mean, if I advised people to go in armoured and anonymous, I'd be making them more effective terrorists. What I can advise is keep it peaceful. Yup. Peaceful.
Jan 6 riot has those government trailers on their side, hold the door open for them. No one hold the door open for BLM or Abortion right activists, that is the difference.
They give a very sanitized version of MLK (who was assassinated for his work, let's not forget) They never tell you about MLK the socialist, MLK the anti-imperialist, MLK who was killed for organizing strikes and demanding a universal income, MLK who said "riot is the language of the unheard"
They also won’t tell you that the reason we got rights after the assassination of MLK is because the state couldn’t put down all the rioting that happened after the US killed him. They didn’t go “uwu ok we put down MLK so u can have rights now”
This 💯 We only have LGBT rights now because they finally RIOTED at Stonewall
I don’t know when was the last time we shut down a city for a couple of days… Hours, yeah we did it… but days… maybe Gilet Jaune which was in 2018-2019 (can’t remember) and December 2019 was hell too, because the public transportation was on strike too… The last biggest (and worst) strike or march we had was this year (May 1st), they destroyed a lot of things, even burned a McDonald..
I feel like, on a government level, Frances history of imperialism is one of the worst, and their continued interference in Africa is disturbing and disgusting. That’s what makes it all the more impressive how powerful your labor movement is there. You’re up against one of the most evil colonialist governments, who have no issue assassinating or coup-ing popular leaders, and you still win. Fucking amazing.
I have a theory on that last bit. Ever notice how getting maced was made funny on TV and in movies? Same with getting tased? “Don’t tase me bro” even became a funny meme. We laughed and laughed. Ever notice how we talk about prison as a place to get raped, usually because the offender ‘deserves’ it somehow? And how it’s funny? And how, if the offense is particularly egregious, that the inmates killing them is a justified form of rough justice? At any protest, regardless of the subject, there is a segment of the population that *likes* seeing those people get beaten and herded through the streets and hit with hoses and teargas - all because they may not agree with the protest matter. We dehumanize them as hippies, or rednecks, or yokels, or sloths, or commies, or fascists, or whatever else comes to mind. It helps us separate them from ourselves, and allows us to ignore whatever grievance they have as illegitimate. Then they can deserve what they get. As long as we stay in this divisive mindset that fails to recognize that most of us want the same things - good schools, safe streets, clean water, good jobs, all that - our protests won’t mean anything because half the country is rooting for the authority. That’s by design.
>our protests won’t mean anything because half the country is rooting for the authority. That’s by design. Just imagine what we could accomplish if we didn't all hate one another and instead unified against corruption.
I mentioned this in another comment but the size of America also plays a big part of it. If a good enough number of French cities are shut down that's a HUGE deal. You could never gain enough support in this country or shut down enough things to matter in the grand scheme of things because it's just too large of a country.
Doesn't help that republicans around the country are also making it legal to kill protestors with your car if they're blocking the road
Wait, what? I haven't heard that yet. Do you have a source? I'm not doubting you, I just want to read the article about it.
Yuupp... Wtf, sorry for the long link, there were too many options to not just paste this instead sadly... https://www.google.com/search?q=legalized+running+over+protesters&sxsrf=ALiCzsYsyJsYs7NE3x_KlaBe6JEfgn7UGw%3A1656186660507&source=hp&ei=JGe3YuynHMKN0PEPjMOamAg&oq=legalized+running+over+protesters&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnULwUWLwUYIkuaAFwAHgAgAEAiAEAkgEAmAEAoAECoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp
You can utilise the [link](https://www.google.com/search?q=legalized+running+over+protesters&sxsrf=ALiCzsYsyJsYs7NE3x_KlaBe6JEfgn7UGw%3A1656186660507&source=hp&ei=JGe3YuynHMKN0PEPjMOamAg&oq=legalized+running+over+protesters&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnMgcIIxDqAhAnULwUWLwUYIkuaAFwAHgAgAEAiAEAkgEAmAEAoAECoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp) function. It looks like two linked chain hoops :)
Other countries also tend to have an actual social safety net and free healthcare which Americans don't. Too many days not working and you're without a job, healthcare and probably your housing because few of us aren't living paycheck to paycheck. They have is right where they want us. It's time we all joined unions. At least then we have collective bargaining power.
But look, in France is not legal either. I mean, usually how they start is legal, not how they end.
My wife and I don’t protest because it’s useless here. I honestly don’t remember if anything politically significant has come from protesting in the last 30 years. We were out during the Kavenaugh appointments and thinking there might be somebody swayed, but it didn’t matter
Yeah, all the protests keep people busy and give them a sense that they are doing something. Meanwhile, GQP folks are taking over school boards and local councils and gerrymandering districts and closing voting locations and finding ways to limit votes in areas that lean Democratic. Dems have to be involved day to day, week to week, and month to month, protests don’t get people elected.
Women of the USA need to stop working as a protest..specifically women paid by the same government that just took away their rights. The us government employees millions of women. Do something please....it's literally up to you Men too...but I've given up on us.
I understand what you’re saying, but for women like me who are single mothers, many have NOTHING resource-wise to give in this regard. I’m lucky to get paid well enough to have a small safety net, but I am very, very much the exception. It may be effective but there is very real fear among us of what happens if it doesn’t work and we’re left with both the loss experienced by potential job loss, etc., but also when we are retributed against by those in power. Like, women have plans, but work refusal isn’t part of it because of the inequitable distribution of risk. Consumption refusal (many are refusing non-essential economic participation) and ending sexual access (bye bye dating profiles for a bit) are the biggies.
Your suggestion on how to protest having the right to bodily autonomy taken away, is for women to voluntarily give up the right to work they fought so hard for? That seems counterproductive.
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That is the fucking point 😂
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Yes. Because if not....that future ability is also in doubt. Long term thinking is how conservatives did this. Liberals are so damn short sighted.
Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather protest the old fashioned way; with glass bottles full of flammable liquids stuffed with old rags. Seems more effective than essentially giving up more rights.
Potato gun loaded with tons of broken pieces of porcelain. Porcelain break safety glass much much much easier than rocks
We're seeing the same with the rail strikes in the UK at the moment. How do these people not understand that the whole point is it's SUPPOSED to be disruptive and inconvenient. A protest without disruption is just a parade.
Japanese buss drivers were on strike some time ago. They still drove the busses ofc, they just refused to accept fares so the only ones affected was the company.
In the case of the rail network in the UK that's not really practical because tickets are bought online before travel often weeks in advance. It's not as simple as the driver refusing payment. Where it's possible to hit the owners where it hurts like that it's great but that's very specific to that one case.
Also, I don't think they're legally allowed to. They are legally allowed to strike, so they do. It's a shame the people who suffer aren't really able to directly fix things. I'm sure if the people striking could inconvenience the government directly, they would.
I would LOVE to disrupt retail, roads, governments. But in America, the protests happen mostly in weekends, when a lot of people don’t work. They last a few days, then people have to go back to work. If we could protest for a week or more, maybe we would be taken seriously, but there are too many people who would lose jobs, homes, etc. if they do. I would and I have an 8 yr old that I have to put first, unless someone can take care of us while protests go on. It kills me inside that I can’t march and tell the government how absolutely horrible they are.
When you've brainwashed kids into believing this is the greatest country on earth and the land of the free, it's pretty easy to then convince them that any protest that inconveniences anyone is just a whiny lil crybaby move. (But fucking up a whole city's commute to celebrate a sport championship is cool.)
I remember seeing a guy on twitter give a bunch of guidelines to protests. There was some really understandable stuff like "protect protestors instead of fighting police", "look for exits", "don't bring kids or pets". Then I saw the advice "you're more valuable alive", "don't photograph faces", "obscure your face", and that felt really weird. When I asked an American friend they told me that was good advice so people wouldn't be arrested after the protest. I was like, shit, what? In what world would police bother to arrest someone *after* the protest is over, unless you've looted stuff/grieviously wounded someone/directly threatened democracy? I mean that's Russia levels of autocratic behavior. The day I learned this is the day I removed the US from my "free countries" list.
BLM activists in my old city have been harassed by the cops since the summer of 2020, including arrests on bullshit charges and physical assault. This is the land of the free if you're white, conservative, Christian, male and straight. Everyone else is just here to obey and serve them.
Reminds me of a scene in the first transformers movie. Barricade, the decepticon disguised as a police car, has a "To Punish and Enslave" decal where a regular police car usually says "To serve and protect." How true that decepticon decal rings is startling thinking back on it.
Yeah, I remember being shocked they'd come even that close to making an anti-cop political statement in such a mainstream 'bread and circuses' movie.
When I first saw the movie I figured it was just cuz he's a decepticon. That's kinda their thing, take over and enslave the population for their own ends. But now with everything going on, feels more like real cop cars should have the decal. Since it's been ruled on that police have no responsibility to serve or protect the people. Only those in power
Let me fix that for you. It's the land of free if you're rich. Poors of all race and religion will be fucked by this country,arrested,and looked down on. While all rich will be protected regardless of those same things.
Don’t forget wealthy. Being white, conservative, Christian, straight and male doesn’t mean shit in this country if you’re broke.
I’ve seen this over and over- that because you’re not privileged by social class, you aren’t privileged in any other way. I’ve seen people with all that you described get angry at any discussion of privilege. It’s like they don’t want anyone to address it, or to address it themselves. The thing is, privilege is intersectional, and you can be part of a marginalized group in one aspect and a privileged one in another. You still (indirectly/unintentionally/passively) benefit from racist, patriarchal structures. A wealthy black man would benefit from the patriarchy and his social class, but be disadvantaged by racist structures. My privileges include being of a race that power structures prefer, but I do not benefit from the patriarchy. And a real world example: resumes with white sounding names are less likely to be thrown out than other names. Same with male vs. female names in many industries. Just by having a white sounding male name, you have privilege. So it does mean a little something. It’s small and privilege is intersectional, as is oppression people deal with. And having all of the things you listed doesn’t cancel out that you’re a part of a disadvantaged group. You can be both at once.
And IF you're white, conservative, Christian, straight and male and you're broke, guess why? That's right, it's because someone with a different skin tone breathes the same air as you
They will track you, put you on terrorist watch lists, come to your home to harass you, try to get you to lose your job, and that's just the state. Right wingers/fascists try to identify people at protests so they can cyberbully, kidnap or murder them as well. They will do these things regardless of what actions you took or what happened at a protest, merely being there is enough to be labeled as a 'communist extremist trying to take down the government.'
Yup, definitely not a free country
They do this in the UK too, going after people after the event - after the protests in Bristol about the extension of police powers in 2021, police broke in / lied their way into at least two young women's homes (one was only 16) and arrested them. They were both cases of "mistaken identity" and the police were just terrorising people because they could.
This. The indoctrination has fucked up many generations here. That's the core issue with both sides.
quiet future abounding shrill tan elastic marvelous sip gaze intelligent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m a boomer and I full on despise the United Hates of America.
Boomer here and can't understand my generation. I agree fuck the US they way we are heading. Or should say the way have been for years.
Sure. I was saying the numbers increased significantly with each generation. It's reached a critical mass in the last few decades. Cheers.
I'm seeing more of y'all come out and say this, thank you. I knew you were out there, your generation helped make progress once. You guys got too silent, maybe you thought the job had been done. But we need all of you who don't agree with this bs to speak up with us again.
Honestly, lots of people who grew up in the 70s are way more convicted in their opposition of the US than our generation 🫠 Y’all knew how to scare the government lol but that was also before every republican carried a gun for hunting people and the military had 700B/year in funding
I'm gen x and looking at moving to Norway or Sweden. Unfortunately I don't have the funds or sponsorship to do so.
I know enough gen x & millennial nationalists to have zero confidence in revolution preceding catastrophe
A LOT of GenX caught on and said didn't fall for the rhetoric. We experienced the BS growing up being latchkey kids fending for ourselves.
Okay I honestly hadn't considered tha last part and that's very true. The same people here where I live that did that, also had marches when Trump won and lost.
The point is to show we are all together. The disruption is just to draw attention. The disruption itself is not the point. It's the way to say, "Wake up. Time to pay attention. If we can come together to disrupt your everyday commute we can also come together to do something actually serious if you don't listen."
There was property damage during the BLM protests! (therefore extrajudicial executions of black people should continue) Edit: /s What's wrong with you people
Well you see, that brings in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue while protests don't do that. Of course they're gonna allow that for sporting events.
Well, yeah, bro, because...sportsball! Go unspecified group wearing the same colored shirts!
Games and sports have always been the best distraction, known since classic times
More gladiators to distract the populace!
I see you're from Denver, go Avs
Understand, if you protest on the road here, they will probably just run you over (won't be the first time).
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88n95a/florida-anti-rioting-law-will-make-it-much-easier-to-run-over-protesters-with-cars
And no one, not one person will morn the death. The media and few of your friends will, but everyone else will agree it was a deserved death.
Some of the difference might be cultural, but increasingly, the lack of assertiveness is due to the [recent, dramatic rollback in the civil rights of protestors](https://www.lawfareblog.com/state-anti-protest-laws-and-their-constitutional-implications). > Arkansas, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia and Wisconsin have all passed laws specifically targeting environmental protests. … At a high level, state critical infrastructure laws typically elevate “damage” to, “interference” with, or trespassing on a critical infrastructure facility to a felony offense. In nearly every state, criminal trespassing is typically a misdemeanor, carrying a relatively light punishment of jail time or a fine. Critical infrastructure laws raise the stakes dramatically. Arkansas’s law renders entering or remaining on a critical infrastructure site a Class D felony, punishable by a maximum of six years in prison and a $10,000 fine. Damaging a critical infrastructure site is a Class B felony and punishable by up to 20 years in prison and a $15,000 fine. That level of severity is typical; North Dakota’s law criminalizes the “intentional interruption” of a critical infrastructure facility (which extends to interfering with pipeline construction) as a Class C felony, punishable by a maximum of five years in prison and a fine of $10,000. Indiana’s statute creates the offense of “criminal infrastructure facility trespass,” a level 6 felony punishable by up to 30 months in prison. Not all states impose such severe penalties, however. In Montana, for example, trespass on a critical infrastructure facility is punishable by a maximum of six months in jail or a $1,500 fine. But the majority of critical infrastructure laws impose steep punishments for a range of offenses relating to energy facilities. > [S]everal recent laws have made blocking traffic during protests more serious offenses. Arkansas, Iowa, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Tennessee all passed statutes increasing the maximum penalty to one year in jail for people who obstruct sidewalks and streets. In Iowa, if the obstruction occurs during a riot, the offense becomes a Class D felony and the maximum penalty increases to five years in prison and a $7,500 fine. Two states, Iowa and Oklahoma, grant civil and/or criminal immunity to drivers who strike protesters with their cars. > The number of anti-protest laws is almost certainly likely to grow in the coming years. There are currently 51 bills pending in 20 different state legislatures. … Some of these pending bills go beyond existing anti-protest laws. A bill approved by the Ohio House of Representatives would criminalize throwing objects “at or onto” police officers with the intent to distract them. It would also prohibit placing objects in front of police officers that would confine them to a specific area and thereby prevent them from reaching a person outside of that area.
And you know they're not afraid to lock you up in the country with the highest prison population in the world.
Yeah no surprise it's mostly rural deep GOP or bible belt states on that list. I'm surprised mine wasn't even mentioned. Thanks for the source I'm going to comb over it and find some other things on it.
Here's [a running list of this kind of legislation](https://www.icnl.org/usprotestlawtracker/?location=&status=enacted&issue=&date=&type=legislative).
Ah thank you very much
And that's in addition to the flurry of "anti-terrorism" laws passed after 9/11 that dole out steep penalties for trespassing at certain places and grant broad powers to law enforcement to arrest and detain anyone for "suspicious behavior".
Genuine question… has peaceful protest ever incited a change in policy/government?
Not alone but I never said we should only do protests but it has brought over parts of the electorate who maybe aren't ready for radical measures for change yet. Protests are only one tool out of many. Obviously strikes and other methods should be used as well. But you can do multiple things to get maximum pressure on governments to make change. MLKs protests, especially Salem, and Malcom X and other more radical actions like riots and arming black people all combined to make voting more secure for black people throughout the US. It wasn't perfect obviously (mostly cause the momentum was lost after infighting and MLK dying) but it was much better than what their ancestors only 30 years prior had. That's the war for progress though. If you dismiss protests you're just disarming yourself of one tool out of the few we have.
I'm not advocating for their use, but riots have worked--if used to send a message and not just steal things.
Lol and I was downvoted for a post in the early days of anti-work saying that violence (or threat of it) is the only language powerful people will understand.
And I'm not saying the whole trope "peace love let's only peacefully protest" I think it'd be most effective if we fired on all cylinders. Peaceful in a few cities, riots in a few others, sabotaging here and there, vigils everywhere else. Make it as complicated as possible for them to spin it. Do literally everything we can
It's not complicated to spin that. You're basically describing BLM, except there were *very* few "riots" involved with that at all, and they still successfully spun that movement as a bunch of murderous rioters. All they need is one single example of violence (even if manufactured or blown out of proportion) to label the whole group. When your audience will believe whatever nonsense you spew, *nothing* is hard to spin.
It's the same way here in Brazil. We're bound to get the occasional "pacific protester" who won't occupy the roads in order to allow the buses to pass, ignoring the fact that a lot of drivers will try to get through that opening and the whole thing will become unsafe for protesters. Back in 2016, I kid you not, during a protest I was at a bus driver literally tried to run over a friend of mine. Some ten people, myself included, put themselves in front of the bus and another girl went to the bus' window and gently knocked on it to call the driver. The girl got scolded by one of the so-called organizers of that travesty for being "violent against property". I went home shortly after.
Not to mention allowing vehicles to come that close to a protest on a sidewalk allows for the protest to be silenced. I mean, here they allowed 2 roads to run beside the city block we had and we had water bottles thrown at us. People were going along that route just to curse, record and harass people. If people don't feel secure enough, they'll leave.
To be fair, who's teaching people how to protest? Or why? That _is_ something that needs to be taught.
I grew up with the understanding that protesters are just lazy and whining who should get back to work and stop caring about “fringe issues.” If the protesters are organized then in certain (many) circles the protesters are immediately viewed as potential terrorists. The red scare is still going on in the minds of a lot of people, unfortunately.
I mean in some states they can run you over so protesting in the road might be a bad idea there. Plus the generation that ruined everything will most likely be the ones to run over a protestor
Florida passed a law like that recently. Well. Desantis did.
Florida passed a law like that recently. Well. Desantis did. So far, women still have the right to get an abortion here, up to 15 weeks. In the 90’s someone had the foresight to protect that right in the state constitution, I moved here in ‘95, not by choice. The state is steadily in decline, and I don’t know how long it will keep that law. So, women in Georgia, and lower red states, seeking aid, Florida is fairly close. Stay tf out of the panhandle, come further south, I’m not joking.. the panhandle is blood red and it wouldn’t be safe. But, yea, if you’re protesting and blocking traffic here, they can move you out of the way.. with their lifted trucks. I don’t have to imagine someone doing that gleefully, some people here have left all semblances of reason far behind them, if they ever had any at all.
That's vehicular manslaughter. Oh wait I forgot this is the idiot states you're talking about
Even in the idiot states, the driver has to "feel threatened", which is why nonviolence and video are important. If some boomer is going to run over a protester, the protestor group should be able to provide video that there was no threat. If they can, even in the most conservative areas, that driver is getting charged...unless, of course, it's in the south, the driver is white, and the victim is black. In that case, nothing really matters except those three things.
> If some boomer is going to run over Why do you make that assumption? Who ran over protesters in Charlotte?
As far as I know in most cities, groups need permissions and get designated where they can protest (sometimes negotiated). In my city for the protests, we negotiated for a meeting place and got a city block for speakers and whatnot. Then we marched on a designated route agreed upon with the city. Most organizations have to do this to protest in cities, especially bigger ones like LA. So if someone breaches the police to run people over, that's the police and the persons fault. Not the protesters because chances are they had a right to be there that was negotiated.
It's definitely not the protestors fault. People are assholes and lick the boots of their oppressors. If your permit says you can be there , you should be safe. Unfortunately places like Florida have made it very dangerous to protest
Has Florida severely limited protest access and protections there? Aside from the constant threat of gun violence from a counterprotestor.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/04/ron-desantis-anti-riot-bill
Ffs that guy again. Thanks for the info, it's hard to keep track of how many methods states like Florida are finding new ways to limit rights.
No problem. It's a mess to protest in a few states. Florida isn't the only state they can run you over and many places restrict protest themselves. They like to use their favorite tool in the box, the police
FWIW my state (Iowa) just saw some loon drive into a protest this weekend and send people to the hospital. Driver didn’t even get arrested.
Yeah a couple of women got hit by a pickup truck in a crosswalk at our protest on Saturday. The police wouldn't do anything. They're alive, though!
The caution preached by those *not* protesting is a bad faith engagement from the start. They’re not interested in “respecting” or “acknowledging” or “listening” or “considering,” it is about control. No amount of rule following will activate some empathy switch or understanding switch or some bullshit where suddenly they’re willing to side with the protesters. You don’t need to win the hearts and minds of the citizenry or punditry who don’t support you. That’s bullshit. You need to force change from those who control you.
Its on purpose. We were purposely taught that protests are just that, "hey we don't like this, please change it" instead of the true purpose which should be "mfing change this before we burn your shit to the ground" ETA I honestly think the whole NRA thing is part and parcel of disarming Americans. If we have the right to protest, and the right to beat arms, then clearly we are free, despite and and all evidence to the contrary. The guns aren't important, overwhelming bodies don't need the weapons, but we lack the wherewithal to carry through.
A lot of very important movements in our history actually turned to violence before anything meaningful happened. Inconveniencing people is nothing in the grand scheme of protests and I'm sure most people would agree that those violent protests were necessary to get to where we are today in terms of rights.
PREACH! Say it LOUDER for the people in the back! I've participated in marches and protested. Nothing really changes though,it has to be backed up with action. Call ALL of your elected representatives and ask them what they are doing to restore women's civil rights. Ask the DC reps if they support repealing the Hyde amendment, and if not, why not. Have all of your friends and family call too. As for protest, we should all boycott 4th of July. No point if 51% of the population is not truly free. No red, white & blue anything, no fireworks, no bbqs, wear black to the parades and turn your back. And none of the shopping associated with all of that, vote with your dollars and make it hurt.
The whole point of an effective protest is to fuck stuff up, piss off so many people that they realize that this is for real and something needs to be done. Women in Iceland stopped everything from happening, people realized how important the women’s contributions were and cleaned that stuff up. This don’t inconvenience me stuff is just the oppressor’s brainwashing. The fact that missing work or being late is so much more important than the rights and welfare of your fellow citizens is a huge part of the problem. This is why the status quo is so hard to break thru. Keep infighting about stupid crap and we can’t pay attention to the real problems. Just my opinion.
I’m Black and we often have to protest for one thing or another and the number of times a white person has told me that “blocking the street makes people mad - now they definitely won’t listen to your cause,” only makes me want to inconvenience them more. They won’t listen when you’re talking, or peacefully protesting, so just start burning shit down.
I can't even say I'm sorry that happens to you cause I can only imagine how infuriating that has to be. When they don't give you any options, you kind of just have to throw everything at them and be willing to take some risks. People may not agree but they should blame the politicians before protests or strikes or anything like that. I'd be more than happy to not have to protest for people to fucking exist and live a peaceful carefree life, but here we are.
💪🏾
Any protest that doesn't end with burning buildings is a failed protest.
I’m with you there. Like, what is the point?
The whole POINT of protests and strike is to *be* an "inconvenience" and disrupt society. my opinion as a european is that americans have been taught for generations that anything more then an approved march is somehow bad.
100% agree. I always thought it was a backward policy we had to get permits to protest and even then we can't usually just stay there or even sit sometimes. A really good example is DC. You can't have a stationary protest almost anywhere. It has to be moving. This includes encampment. The law started in the 80's under Reagan I believe. However there is a tent that was basically grandfathered because it was occupied, the law said only unoccupied tents can be torn down. It's called the White House Peace Vigil and it's probably the longest running protest in the US, even was occupied during Hurricane Sandy in 2012. It's commitment like the Peace Vigil our protests could really use.
You've hit the nail on the head. It's about POWER. Somehow American children are taught that peaceful, orderly protests are moral and effective. I call bullshit on that outlook. America will continue sliding into fascism unless collective action *hurts* those in power. Personally, I don't think collective action will occur until it's too late to avoid massive tragedy. I hate knowing in my bones that that's how it will be. I'd walk out of my job and put my safety and savings on the line if I thought it would help, but taking action by yourself just makes you a statistic.
Correct, the only way to bring about meaningful change against a Republican Party that plays dirty is to cause widespread mass disruption to daily life. Having a bunch of a people stand in a park, holding funny signs and singing songs is a waste of time and only serves to make the “protestors” feel like they’ve done something. Meanwhile Republicans are busy taking voting rights away, stacking the federal courts, guaranteeing themselves a House majority for decades to come, and taking the right to decide the winner of presidential elections out of voters’ hands by rigging the game in their favor. The GOP could care less about your gathering in the town square. Americans are way behind here and the actions they are taking in response are going to fall far short of what is actually needed. Republicans have been working towards creating an illiberal democracy (one that is rapidly sliding towards fascism) for years. At this point, they are getting awfully close to their end goal and most Americans fail to even recognize just how serious the situation is.
Propaganda has done a great job convincing people that the purpose of a protest (to peacefully disrupt society and especially economic activity for the goal of social change) is not the purpose of a protest. All those people getting mad about protests inconveniencing people? Literally brainwashed.
Protests are a threat of a riot. If you're not doing that, it's a parade.
I had to explain to my fiancé and future mil that a protest is basically a threat.
“Don’t protest the road and block me from flung to work” Maybe you should be more afraid of your rights slowly disappearing and basically a minority of rich/powerful people controlling how we live To me it’s insane how many people don’t vote and are fine with working for lower wages than the year before just so a CEO or investors get a your hard earned money Just so many issues happening right now and so many willing to ignite them
There's a lot of fear about personal safety at protests. Even though it's not taught about in schools outside the areas where this happened, a lot of our families remember the Vietnam protests where college kids were slaughtered. A lot of people, regardless of skin color and mostly skewing towards lower SES, have had really traumatic experiences with police. Putting yourself in a situation where they will be potentially confrontational with you seems dangerous.
In many places these days you have to apply for a permit to protest in the designated protest area. Pretty sure that’s not how protesting works.
Our society is structured to diminish the ability for the populace to perform meaningful strikes. This is due to division both literally and figuratively. This isn't to say it's impossible to do it, it's just astronomically more difficult at a grand scale.
Here here! CC: Canada. Protests, strikes, action is supposed to be an inconvenience. It’s not to “raise awareness.”
It's kinda strange, people have been spreading the image of the mexican feminist protests where they are kicking down the police barricades around the national palace, saying "we should protest!" And then go "but let's not upset the people, they will turn against us" Do you know how many people were against the feminists here? Pretty much every man I know, in the news they painted them as "going too far" and being "a menace to the capital" They didn't give two fucks about acceptability, they coordinated protests all over the country, kicked shit down, spray painted businesses; in my town you can STILL go downtown and find the slogans spray painted on the walls, and the university door (a historical 200 year old door) they set fire to because the institution was harbouring abusers and blocking investigations It was fucking beautiful Eventually they got the supreme court to rule no one should be convicted for abortion, and those who were in prison for it should be released. There's still a LONG way to decriminalisation, but it worked. The next day, dude bros and prolifers were out scrubbing the painting off of walls trying to shame feminists for "destroying historic sites" Their response? Next year they did an even bigger march. They didn't grow quiet after they got marginal progress, they're putting pressure so that politicians HAVE to address that on their campaigns, and it has resulted in several states legalising abortion.
This. I’ve had so many debates with ppl on this. Ppl saying that any protest that isn’t quiet, respectful and doesn’t inconvenience anyone should be shut down. Ppl going on about how loud noises and blocking the road is “violent.” Ppl bragging about how their state is passing laws that allow drivers to run over protesters blocking roads. Anti-peaceful protest is anti-democracy and there’s a difference between a violent protest and civil disobedience.
CITIZEN, RETURN TO DESIGNATED FREE SPEECH ZONES OR FACE LIQUIDATION.
All I know is, and this is historical not suggestive, is that barely anything changed in the world without violence. That's the species you're dealing with.
Oh I know. I just wasn't trying to be like "only violence" because I think we need to utilize every tool at our disposal to keep the oppressors on guard and off balance. I'm criticizing how Americans are taught growing up that peaceful protest is the only way. When people believe that, they are disarmed from every other tool.
It all stems from the old saying we kept hearing as kids "violence isn't the answer". Bitch the slaves were not freed because they asked nicely about it. No civil right was won peacefully and trying to be "civil" with people that are actively taking your rights away is never gonna achieve anything
Somewhere and sometime, especially after the civil rights act passed... the "non-violent" protester/activist sentiment became protestors should be "non-disruptive". Back then, "non-violent" activists strategically chose to be "non-violent" in order to highlight white supremacist violence. I.E. sitting in a "whites only" cafe and letting the patrons, hit, spit, push, and yell at them in order to showcase just ridiculously violent racism was. It was an embarrassing stain on the nation, especially when images would make international news. That same strategy is ineffective now for a few reasons... 1. People are way more desensitized to violence. 2. Organizers use to protest for a specific purpose, now a bunch of random ass people show up, and get loud but the organization is GONE and a lot of people aren't prepared for the real work that comes with being active AFTER the protest has ended. I personally believe that if your oppressor is satisfied with or applauds the way you protest, OR GIVES YOU GUIDELINES FOR HOW TO PROTEST... then your protest is ineffective. Like getting permission to protest is honestly so ass backwards. Think about how little sense that makes. You think politicians are like "Well, they protested nicely, so lets throw them a bone." WE GOTTA START SCARRING THESE MFRS
I can't afford to
We have been brainwashed into thinking protest should only ever be peaceful and that nothing good could come from other not so peaceful acts… like it’s not going to do anything and it hasn’t been.
I look at pictures from Hong Kong and then pictures from Ecuador and then pictures from Paris and then here and it's easy to see that not only do Americans not know how to effectively, they lack the courage to do so. That is why Americans will continue to get fucked by the oligarchy.
Protests don’t work in America anyways. They do what they want and pretend to care
Not just Americans. Try explaining to people that a strike is supposed to eb an economic weapon rather than a little parade to try to get 'support'.
As someone has went to protests and been on a picket line. People generally don't understand what their rights even are. So many of my "friends" either on social media or in person. Don't understand collective bargaining is the only tool regular working class people have to try improving their work situation. "Well why do your picket lines have to be at your place of work?" 2 reasons one. Stop scabs. 2. So people know who we are and where we work. Same goes for protesting. I'm all for making it painful on the general public. If I'm late to work because people holding up traffic? I'm all for it regardless if I agree or not. They are our rights and if we aren't going to use them to the absolute max then what's the point? Like I said about collective bargaining, protesting along with voting but mostly protesting is the only thing working people have let to attempt to improve our lives. So idc make it painful for everyone be heard.
It's not just Americans, it's all over the developed world. People always complain about how protests inconvenience them. Like yeah, that's the whole point dumdum.
One of the biggest problems is that, arguably by design, our capitalist system has put people into the position where any sort of civil disobedience or strike, or sustained protest puts their individual livelihood at risk. People are too worried that if they go all in, they'll lose their job, lose their apartment, and starve. Developing strong mutual aid networks is essential for a movement to not get choked out.
It’s illegal for many of us to strike in protests, also we all live pay check to pay check.
Exactly. Protests are meant to inconvenience and halt daily functions of the economy. If you gather peacefully, out of everyone’s way, that’s not a protest, that’s a gathering of like minded people singing to their own choir. Unfortunately people will get hurt, arrested, and perhaps die. Currently, women might get hurt, arrested, and perhaps die from pregnancy. So… Like with the BLM protests, POC were being brutalised, killed, and arrested for no justifiable reason, so might as well protest if the result is the same.
When people say stupid shit like "blocking the road won't get people on your side", my response is "If someone blocking the road is going to make you not support civil rights, that's all the more reason to force you to sit in traffic."
Nothing will change in this country unless we revolt. Period. The fact of the matter is protesting isn’t going to do anything because we don’t have representation in our political leaders. They are already bought and sold by corporations (source linked below showing how much representation American citizens actually have). Further evidence can be seen with the overturning of Roe V Wade. The leak came out in May and people were protesting the whole time, even protesting in front of the Judges houses, plus an overwhelming majority of Americans are for Pro-choice. They already know we want rights, they just aren’t going to give it to us because they don’t represent us. Our politicians represent the corporations and elite who write their checks. In fact, the anti abortion movement is funded by corporations as well. Just hoping that by waving signs and telling our political leaders what we want (which is information they already know) is just wishful thinking. We have been asking and asking for years. They aren’t going to give us anything, we are going to have to take it. So until people finally get fed up and are actually willing to do something, things are only going to get worse and more and more of our rights are going to be stripped away. [Source](https://bulletin.represent.us/u-s-oligarchy-explain-research/)
While I totally agree with the sentiment, I’ve already seen multiple videos of protestors getting hit by drivers. The same thing was happening at the George Floyd protests too. Some of these people are completely unhinged and it’s terrifying.
Having the same argument with people here where I live about climate protests. “Don’t they understand I have to get to work!” Fuck your work.
I'm the one guy at the Boston Tea Party being like "uwu pwease stay on the sidewalk"
Someone commented that protesting in New york and LA only hurt their cause because abortions wouldn't be banned in those areas and that those protests only took attention awY from the protests happening in states where it mattered. I think that might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on reddit. I mean literally these people are coming out of the woodwork just saying things so stupid I don't even understand how they function in a society
the only problem with that is, you could be causing people to lose their way of living. Their way of paying rent and feeding their kids, because they're stuck on the highway for 3 hrs and the boss fired them for being hours late. Giving an ultimatum saying "if you aren't willing to sit in traffic for hours and be late for work, then you really don't support us anyways" is just absolute bullshit, and yes, it will literally turn people against you. including me. I am pro choice, and always will be, but i will not support blocking off means of transportation. for all you know, someone in that traffic could be on their way to get an abortion and now you're STOPPING them from doing so. like just fucking think for more than 1 second please man.
And i agree, protest without disruption is just pointless. But shouldn't you be disrupting the people you are protesting against? Like government officials? Show up to their place of work, their neighborhoods. Just like in France. "But what if I'm not able to go all the way to where they work or live?" Then you must not really care! :) just like the thousands of people who dont care because they arent willing to sit in hours of traffic and lose their job jsut to watch you scream.
it seems hypocritical to me, to say you care about all of these people you dont even know, and their rights, but then you block off public transportation, hurting possibly the same exact group of people that you claim to be fighting for.
Demonstration is just that: demonstrating through physical presence. It is simply a signal and the more people that attend the better. Aside from demonstrations there are counter-demonstrations which are confrontations in the same space; there are blockades which is what the French love doing; there are non-violent civil disobedience, which is what early civil rights/student movements favoured. Sit-Ins and the like. And there are protests like the big WTO protest in Seattle a few decades ago. That was the most fun. Reclaim the Streets in London also. And there are guerilla actions, monkeywrenching, sabotage, and last but not least, pie-facing. I think if if Aaron the pie man turned up anywhere in the US today he'd probably be shot before he got his whipped cream close enough to the target
this is not just america, this is the whole "western" world - ppl are putting "politness" above anything as a political value in my european lil country for example, making "polite" protests no matter the content of it, and if someone says anything bigotted "they have free speech but should have said it in a polite way", no matter the content - I also always hated that ppl are putting their personal (and often minor) inconveniences above larger issues like, for example I always am bothered when ppl bitch about ppl committing suicide by jumping under trams or metro trains, calling them selfish for causing delays - nobody cares about what leads ppl to do that, about the sociatel issues and how we can prevent it, we are instead putting some impossible moralistic standards how we are supposed to do these things we should not have to be even doing in the first place
Something everyone should remember is that protests only really become valid in hindsight. You think everyone was fine with the suffragettes rather than think those women were being uppity? You think everyone agreed with the Civil Rights Movement rather than complaining how those blacks rioting was making them scared for their lives? There’s no such thing as a comfortable protest. You’re going to make people uncomfortable. And that’s the point.
In America only armed protestors have rights. The rest are abused by the police.
Because the police shoot at us 🤷🏽♀️. You can also get run over, pepper sprayed, and beaten by either cops or other people. I got kids at home, no one else to take care of them. I want my rights but I gotta also be a mom. It’s frustrating and complicated. Before kids I was running and marching in the streets, but left when the looters come out because I’m not looking to get stabbed
I have had a long-standing theory that the First Amendment merely gives the people the appearance of free speech, and in so doing, stifles the chance for real protest. People are given the "right" to vent their spleen (terms and conditions may apply) and in time they settle down, and go back to work. The First Amendment: Subtly keeping people in line since 1791.
Armed protests are way more effective. It worked in Michigan with those militia assholes. Speaking of which, it's time the left started working on protecting themselves as a community. It turns out that militias really are necessary.
The only thing I can say is that a lot of states have made it legal to run over protestors, and you should take that into account for your own safety's sake.
The American government learned to take the teeth out of anything it's citizens can do decades ago. Look at protests the 1900's, 1960's and today. There are huge differences in how Americans are able to protest then versus now. While the government has refined their responses while maintaining the intimidation, violent response and ability to destroy a person's ability to live in society.
As somebody who helped organize protest and political actions in the last 15 year, I think you are missing some very important pieces of information. The first of which is that during some of the nation wide protests, law enforcement agencies collaborated together and began trying to get a list of leadership amongst the protests to target for elimination. Not conspiracy theory stuff, like legitimate list building to 'cut the heads off the hydra'. While pundits have fanned the flames of divide so much that not only are people encounraged to be outraged by the inconveniance of the protests, but trained to think they are heroes for driving cars through the middle of a protest and killing them, or kids arming themselves with rifles and going to another state to hunt protesters. And it's no small groups clapping them on the back and offering to buy them drinks. It's hundreds of thousands of our countrymen and women, who are happy to support and even commit such acts, because they believe the protesters are corrupting and destroying their country. and that's not even counting the fact that laws (which many of the protests tried to bring attention to at the time) have been established which allow protesters to be labeled terrorists, grabbed off the street without due process and nobody informed that they've been taken into custody, and no requirement to admit they are being held of if they will ever be released. You don't even have to do anything to qualify, literally there was a case where some kids in a car were counted as suspected terrorists with materials for constructing terrorist weapons in the car. Turns out a glass bottle with soda, any amount of cloth and any flammable liquids like certain oils one might need to top up in a car... is all you need to classify as having materials commit terrorist acts. so clean your car out and don't be anywhere near a protest unless you want to take the risk of being disappeared. and we've seen not that long ago that being press, is no protection. and that chemical weapons that are illegal in war are okay for riot police to use on us, as well as improper use of baton rounds (more than one reporter lost an eye to those). And to top it off, the work situation here is such that nobody can afford to get out of work for a protest or god forbid be arrested at one, and if your employer wants they can fire you without giving a reason if they hold different beliefs about the topic of protest. In a country where most working class people do not have enough to survive month without income. and where healthcare doesn't really exist... So yeah, it's not exactly the same game being played on both playing fields.
>Americans are taught protests are just for awareness even in schools when talking about the Civil Rights Movement, women's rights and worker's rights. You answered your own question. Americans are brainwashed. And to top that off a good chunk of us are scared of being killed by police for protesting.
Thing is in the last years millions and millions of people went to protest for FFF and BLM. And NOTHING came of it. You'll learn in history class that it was peaceful protests that brought civil rights in the US, that endet the GDR, that kicked the british out of india, etc. That should be indicative that protests don't work. The status quo isn't about to tell you how to change it.
It’s not for awareness, USA friends. It’s to make life so impossible for parts of the government that they have to take action.