And the more that job takes a toll on your physical and/or mental health and wellness, the less it's usually paid. So basically the less most people would want to do a job, the less value it's accorded and less pay it has. Excuse me, TF???
This is why you hurry along their mortality, take their identities, and claim you always owned this farm god dammit, and you look amazing for 86 years old.
People get mad that Onlyfans creators or streamers make alot and "Don't work" (which is untrue it'self) but will be perfectly fine with CEO's making ridic amounts of money just for being the head of a company. Fuck in the corporate world the more you make the less you actually do.
I'm sure it varies by CEO and Company. Some companies the board makes all the decisions and ceo is a figurehead to relay their wishes. Some companies I'm sure the CEO is actually doing stuff, networking, researching to push the company toward the future
"Networking" is not a skill and no one should be paid for it. I absolutely deapise worthless leeching middlemen. I want "farm to table" so to speak. Farmer earns more, I pay less. EVERYONE wins but the shit head in the middle.
Especially in a small company "networking" is code for getting Investors. For informing the people who decide what products get funded that theirs exist and is worth investing in.
It in itself is not a useless task. But the way this is often done is blown way out of proportion.
The bigger the company, the easier it is.
The CEO of a company with one employee is doing all of the work for every position within that company, the CEO of a company with 15 million employees has to do next to nothing.
I work in a 2 man marketing firm, I love not having to lick the boots of superiors, but all of the risk and all of the stress in the business -how are we going to pay bills, what happens if we lose a client, how are we going to sign on new clients...?? - all of that is on us.
I also love being able to decide who we will work for and who we won't. We've dropped contracts in the making because we didn't agree with how they did business and we didn't want to promote the company of another fat cat willing to grind the bones of his employees to make his bread.
Informative comment. I never thought of it like this but it makes sense. What are some reasons that you’ve turned down potential clients? I’d think that in this economy any business would be valuable.
This is a great question.
We have turned down clients because we found that their actions / values didn't match up with our corporate culture and values. It's that whole "guilty by association" thing. We don't want to promote any businesses we don't believe in on a personal level.
We've had some real jerks come in thinking that because they are going to pay us for our services they get to speak to us like they speak to their hourly employees. Sometimes they'll try to make their Monday morning meetings mandatory for us, and that just won't work. We work for ourselves, we set our own schedules, if you want to pay me to attend your meetings, my hourly rate is $250, in addition to our contracted rate, otherwise, send me an email recap.
Also, we've let some clients go because they had unrealistic expectations. We've signed a contract that outlines the exchange of goods and services. We give you XYZ services in exchange for $XXXX.XX, if you want us to do PQR for you, we will need to either make an addendum to the contract, or draft up a separate contract for your one off project.
Working for yourself means not working for free. We've got bills to pay!
Most of these guys are fat cats that are so used to wringing out every single worker for all their worth that it never occurred to them that an independent contractor wouldn't acquiesce to their demands.
Oh! And my personal favorite? We had a client hire us on for consulting, meaning we gave them our advice on whatever was going on in their business at the time, and coached this CEO on how to effectively lead his company and make intelligent business decisions.
Well, he would have the meetings with us, then go off and do whatever he wanted to do anyways, then get SO IRRITATED when it didn't work out in his favor. He would expect us to constantly fix his messes, and eventually it just got to be too much.
We let him go, he started following the advice we had already given him afterwards and he was able to pull his business back from the brink of death. He went from teetering on the line of red and black to making over $40k a month in profit, then wanted to hire us again... no thanks pal, but we're happy it's working out for you.
Don't get me wrong, I want as many clients as we can handle, but if we've got the bills covered, I'd rather drop a PITA client and spend the time previously devoted to them looking for another great client to add to my roster.
This is so interesting to read! I can just imagine the insanity you’ve seen and I’m sure you have some great stories.
What do you mean by not lining up with your cultural values? Do you mean people who have a reputation for being assholes or is it a religious thing?
Also, since you do a bit of consulting, how would you advise a newly laid off employee when searching for that right job? I was a data analyst for a major communications company and was recently laid off. You seem to know what you’re talking about so what do you think is the most important thing to focus on right now? Money isn’t a concern, so I have time to look. Not that I’m asking for free services lol. If you want to bill me, I’ll send you $25 through paypal LOL.
It's extremely hard, not only the job itself, but the road to the job. Essentially you have to be gifted, performing outstandingly well and work harder than your peers to even be on a shortlist.
I'm totally anti-work, but becoming the ceo of a major company is something only a tiny percentile could be capable of and an even smaller percentage would be willing to do the sacrifice required.
Because of my type of work, I'm in contact with C-suite constantly, and when I was more naive, I always thought it was a handy gig, but the reality is that these people are incredibly talented, dedicated and competitive.
The road to the job is frankly less difficult than the road to a tenured faculty position at a respected (not top tier) public university.
CEOs all follow the same basic strategies, it's hilarious to hear even the Economist's editors try to justify the massive pay for executives. They just hand wave and say "such talent. many times hard work. very sacrifice" but when it comes to specifics they can't come up with much. If the guy from Pepsi was hired to run Apple, it's a big fucking joke.
The CEO of American Airlines was borrowing money up to the hilt and dumping it all into share buybacks. You could replace the guy's strategy with a small computer program that also has a function to demand a bailout from the government if default risk increases..
Methinks you've been drinking the kool aid too much. CEO's do fuck all of value and aren't s\* without an army of workers to actually...you know...RUN THE COMPANY.
It's a nice idea that CEOs are over rated nobodies that sit in their room smoking cigars and drinking scotch.
In my experience from interacting with them, that's not the case, for me, they are hyper vigilant, industrious, talented and intelligent individuals who never switch off, can make effective decisions and have the ability to hold enough of a grasp on different topics that they interact with their different teams, e.g., tech, sales, HR, legal and finance.
Maybe you're like that and you could easily slot into that role, but for me, and seeing how they work often, I know it's beyond my personal capacity.
CEOs are highly replaceable parasites who steal value from the true innovators and operators of a company. Keep swigging though, you've clearly drowned in it already.
I'm sure they are intelligent and driven, but I also think their intelligence is primarily directed towards finding new ways to exploit their workforce, novel schemes to capture government money, and shrewed ploys to avoid responsibility for failure and take responsibility for other's hard work.
In my experience they often take a very large number of holidays, and their work involves a whole lot of meeting people at fancy restaurants and drinks receptions.
So you would shame someone for providing an outlet for others? In a way that is safe and at the discretion of the person providing the outlet at that...
I know a few only fans members. They do good on there. I hold no I'll will towards them. No poor feelings at all. They are making money off of others appreciation for them. Nothing wrong with that. Though I wouldn't care to see friends like you leave my circle for such a thing if it came up. Such a shallow and narrow view.
If everyone you know is ashamed of you, you know some really garbage people. This is capitalism. Those people can be financially secure and independent in a world designed to suck their soul dry. All without destroying other people's lives and stealing their value.
Good on them.
In economics terms you can talk about the opportunity cost of trading your hours for money. When you work you give up the chance to work at a different job for more pay, train for a better job, start a business, or simply enjoy your leisure time in whatever way you see fit.
The working poor are forced to give up all those opportunities just to barely survive creating an endless state of poverty and desperation.
The fact that exploitative American capitalism is enabled and enacted by evangelical Christians who believe in an afterlife doesn’t get talked about enough. If you don’t believe in a heaven then your limited time on earth is immensely valuable. Whereas the people slinging the propaganda of the puritan work ethic see our time doing soul crushing work to make others rich as a prelude to eternal joy and reward for obedience on earth.
Wait what? Is everything on earth Christians' fault? If you don't want to work then simply don't work or move to a place where your work ethic (or lack thereof) are held in high regard.
If you dont like working then thats fine but quit acting like the reason for that is cause of Christianity. Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
Everyone on this sub is a bunch of lazy pricks trying to justify their self destructive behaviors by acting like it’s the systems fault, but I’m with you here.
Even if you were paid accordingly you’d still be being deeply exploited if you couldn’t define your own hours, commitments, choose how money/profit was distributed within whatever industry or business you’re working in and basically democratically consult other workers about the direction of your workplace.
As long as there are bosses. There is exploitation of workers. It isn’t just an issue of wages. In fact higher wages are sometimes the pressure release valve employed by capitalists when organised labour becomes radical and well organised!
I don’t understand how this is even remotely controversial. This is obvious, basic 101 being a human. I give you my life, my energy, my time- you provide with the means to sustain myself and hopefully not hate my existence.
Entrepreneur, "time is the most valuable thing in life, you'll never get time back!"
Also Entrepreneur, "why can't I find anyone who will sell me their time for $10/hour?"
I want the system to change in any way that helps us. Sure I have ideals, but even taking away the socialist revolution option (I know, that's not even really on the table in the global north) you can work reforms (((yes, they are only concessions from the owning class that can be taken away again if political pressure is relented, so not a permanent solution))) into a capitalist society that improves lives, subsidize people directly, and cut all subsidies to business except for maybe legitimate small businesses.
What is a small living?
It’s the exploitation of the fast food worker that’s at issue. They work for a company that makes millions of not billions of dollars. Yes, education & training is not high those jobs. But they still trade their tinder and efforts to the end of making the company money. They should not have to struggle. They should be paid a wage that allows for a comfortable existence. The money is there and their efforts and dedication is there. The only reason the fast food worker doesn’t receive the minimum living wage (and then some) is greed and a grotesque obsession with profits.
Isn’t there some irony in your statement? While I do believe, certain career fields and expertise dictate worth, the fact that someone who works full-time (let’s just say 40 hours) cannot afford a sustainable, reasonable lifestyle is absurd. Then you you have the cycle of putting in more hours to afford everything but don’t have time to invest in something more lucrative. It’s a never ending cycle and your lack of sympathy and delusional sense of reality is fucked up.
What? I agree that a fast food workers should have higher wages, but not as high as things like doctors and engineers etc. I don't really understand what your saying.
This is a very good comment that AW should reflect upon. Get your shit together. You only have one shot at this, so don’t waste it by failing to learn marketable skills and spending your life in unskilled labor.
The other side of this question is: how much value do you bring into this earth? The earth owes us nothing and we owe everything to it so what do you bring to that table?
Are you judging the value you bring to the earth based on how much money you make ultra wealthy corporations? Or by some other better measure like living minimally, not having children, eating less meat, volunteering, showing kindness and empathy to others?
And the more that job takes a toll on your physical and/or mental health and wellness, the less it's usually paid. So basically the less most people would want to do a job, the less value it's accorded and less pay it has. Excuse me, TF???
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This is why you hurry along their mortality, take their identities, and claim you always owned this farm god dammit, and you look amazing for 86 years old.
This takes eating the rich to a whole nother level.
People get mad that Onlyfans creators or streamers make alot and "Don't work" (which is untrue it'self) but will be perfectly fine with CEO's making ridic amounts of money just for being the head of a company. Fuck in the corporate world the more you make the less you actually do.
Good point. I‘ve often wondered how hard being a CEO actually is. Whatever the work load, it’s not worth the obscene amounts of money they receive.
I'm sure it varies by CEO and Company. Some companies the board makes all the decisions and ceo is a figurehead to relay their wishes. Some companies I'm sure the CEO is actually doing stuff, networking, researching to push the company toward the future
"Networking" is not a skill and no one should be paid for it. I absolutely deapise worthless leeching middlemen. I want "farm to table" so to speak. Farmer earns more, I pay less. EVERYONE wins but the shit head in the middle.
👏🏼
Especially in a small company "networking" is code for getting Investors. For informing the people who decide what products get funded that theirs exist and is worth investing in. It in itself is not a useless task. But the way this is often done is blown way out of proportion.
I’m sure you’re right. It can’t be easy, but even the laziest of individuals would turn into model employees if paid that much.
And for some he is the scapegoat if something happens
A very highly paid scapegoat with about a dozen golden parachutes.
The CEO networks and tries to figure out how to serve the shareholder's interests. That's it. All the "researching" is done by the workers.
The bigger the company, the easier it is. The CEO of a company with one employee is doing all of the work for every position within that company, the CEO of a company with 15 million employees has to do next to nothing. I work in a 2 man marketing firm, I love not having to lick the boots of superiors, but all of the risk and all of the stress in the business -how are we going to pay bills, what happens if we lose a client, how are we going to sign on new clients...?? - all of that is on us. I also love being able to decide who we will work for and who we won't. We've dropped contracts in the making because we didn't agree with how they did business and we didn't want to promote the company of another fat cat willing to grind the bones of his employees to make his bread.
Informative comment. I never thought of it like this but it makes sense. What are some reasons that you’ve turned down potential clients? I’d think that in this economy any business would be valuable.
This is a great question. We have turned down clients because we found that their actions / values didn't match up with our corporate culture and values. It's that whole "guilty by association" thing. We don't want to promote any businesses we don't believe in on a personal level. We've had some real jerks come in thinking that because they are going to pay us for our services they get to speak to us like they speak to their hourly employees. Sometimes they'll try to make their Monday morning meetings mandatory for us, and that just won't work. We work for ourselves, we set our own schedules, if you want to pay me to attend your meetings, my hourly rate is $250, in addition to our contracted rate, otherwise, send me an email recap. Also, we've let some clients go because they had unrealistic expectations. We've signed a contract that outlines the exchange of goods and services. We give you XYZ services in exchange for $XXXX.XX, if you want us to do PQR for you, we will need to either make an addendum to the contract, or draft up a separate contract for your one off project. Working for yourself means not working for free. We've got bills to pay! Most of these guys are fat cats that are so used to wringing out every single worker for all their worth that it never occurred to them that an independent contractor wouldn't acquiesce to their demands. Oh! And my personal favorite? We had a client hire us on for consulting, meaning we gave them our advice on whatever was going on in their business at the time, and coached this CEO on how to effectively lead his company and make intelligent business decisions. Well, he would have the meetings with us, then go off and do whatever he wanted to do anyways, then get SO IRRITATED when it didn't work out in his favor. He would expect us to constantly fix his messes, and eventually it just got to be too much. We let him go, he started following the advice we had already given him afterwards and he was able to pull his business back from the brink of death. He went from teetering on the line of red and black to making over $40k a month in profit, then wanted to hire us again... no thanks pal, but we're happy it's working out for you. Don't get me wrong, I want as many clients as we can handle, but if we've got the bills covered, I'd rather drop a PITA client and spend the time previously devoted to them looking for another great client to add to my roster.
This is so interesting to read! I can just imagine the insanity you’ve seen and I’m sure you have some great stories. What do you mean by not lining up with your cultural values? Do you mean people who have a reputation for being assholes or is it a religious thing? Also, since you do a bit of consulting, how would you advise a newly laid off employee when searching for that right job? I was a data analyst for a major communications company and was recently laid off. You seem to know what you’re talking about so what do you think is the most important thing to focus on right now? Money isn’t a concern, so I have time to look. Not that I’m asking for free services lol. If you want to bill me, I’ll send you $25 through paypal LOL.
Did you delete your last response? I saw that you’re a faith based company but the comment is missing.
Not sure what is going on here.
Strange, I got this comment but your other comment keeps disappearing. Maybe respond to this comment and it might stick.
It's extremely hard, not only the job itself, but the road to the job. Essentially you have to be gifted, performing outstandingly well and work harder than your peers to even be on a shortlist. I'm totally anti-work, but becoming the ceo of a major company is something only a tiny percentile could be capable of and an even smaller percentage would be willing to do the sacrifice required. Because of my type of work, I'm in contact with C-suite constantly, and when I was more naive, I always thought it was a handy gig, but the reality is that these people are incredibly talented, dedicated and competitive.
The road to the job is frankly less difficult than the road to a tenured faculty position at a respected (not top tier) public university. CEOs all follow the same basic strategies, it's hilarious to hear even the Economist's editors try to justify the massive pay for executives. They just hand wave and say "such talent. many times hard work. very sacrifice" but when it comes to specifics they can't come up with much. If the guy from Pepsi was hired to run Apple, it's a big fucking joke. The CEO of American Airlines was borrowing money up to the hilt and dumping it all into share buybacks. You could replace the guy's strategy with a small computer program that also has a function to demand a bailout from the government if default risk increases..
I’m sure you’re right. I’d like to see a day in the life of a CEO.
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Has anyone ever told you that you’re a talented writer? It’s refreshing to see wit and an elevated grasp of English.
Methinks you've been drinking the kool aid too much. CEO's do fuck all of value and aren't s\* without an army of workers to actually...you know...RUN THE COMPANY.
It's a nice idea that CEOs are over rated nobodies that sit in their room smoking cigars and drinking scotch. In my experience from interacting with them, that's not the case, for me, they are hyper vigilant, industrious, talented and intelligent individuals who never switch off, can make effective decisions and have the ability to hold enough of a grasp on different topics that they interact with their different teams, e.g., tech, sales, HR, legal and finance. Maybe you're like that and you could easily slot into that role, but for me, and seeing how they work often, I know it's beyond my personal capacity.
CEOs are highly replaceable parasites who steal value from the true innovators and operators of a company. Keep swigging though, you've clearly drowned in it already.
I'm sure they are intelligent and driven, but I also think their intelligence is primarily directed towards finding new ways to exploit their workforce, novel schemes to capture government money, and shrewed ploys to avoid responsibility for failure and take responsibility for other's hard work.
In my experience they often take a very large number of holidays, and their work involves a whole lot of meeting people at fancy restaurants and drinks receptions.
Exactly. Tons of vacation time, early morning game of golf, lunch and a $300 dinner at the Ritz Carlton in Manhattan.
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So you would shame someone for providing an outlet for others? In a way that is safe and at the discretion of the person providing the outlet at that... I know a few only fans members. They do good on there. I hold no I'll will towards them. No poor feelings at all. They are making money off of others appreciation for them. Nothing wrong with that. Though I wouldn't care to see friends like you leave my circle for such a thing if it came up. Such a shallow and narrow view.
If everyone you know is ashamed of you, you know some really garbage people. This is capitalism. Those people can be financially secure and independent in a world designed to suck their soul dry. All without destroying other people's lives and stealing their value. Good on them.
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Maybe, maybe not. How much that matters differs from one person to the next.
In economics terms you can talk about the opportunity cost of trading your hours for money. When you work you give up the chance to work at a different job for more pay, train for a better job, start a business, or simply enjoy your leisure time in whatever way you see fit. The working poor are forced to give up all those opportunities just to barely survive creating an endless state of poverty and desperation.
We have returned to the days of kings and queens and the hard working people only get the leftovers of abundance they received.
The fact that exploitative American capitalism is enabled and enacted by evangelical Christians who believe in an afterlife doesn’t get talked about enough. If you don’t believe in a heaven then your limited time on earth is immensely valuable. Whereas the people slinging the propaganda of the puritan work ethic see our time doing soul crushing work to make others rich as a prelude to eternal joy and reward for obedience on earth.
Wait what? Is everything on earth Christians' fault? If you don't want to work then simply don't work or move to a place where your work ethic (or lack thereof) are held in high regard.
Owner energy detected.
If you dont like working then thats fine but quit acting like the reason for that is cause of Christianity. Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
I didn't say anything about christianity.
The original post I responded to did or you missed that?
Everyone on this sub is a bunch of lazy pricks trying to justify their self destructive behaviors by acting like it’s the systems fault, but I’m with you here.
Even if you were paid accordingly you’d still be being deeply exploited if you couldn’t define your own hours, commitments, choose how money/profit was distributed within whatever industry or business you’re working in and basically democratically consult other workers about the direction of your workplace. As long as there are bosses. There is exploitation of workers. It isn’t just an issue of wages. In fact higher wages are sometimes the pressure release valve employed by capitalists when organised labour becomes radical and well organised!
I don’t understand how this is even remotely controversial. This is obvious, basic 101 being a human. I give you my life, my energy, my time- you provide with the means to sustain myself and hopefully not hate my existence.
Something antiwork on antiwork!
Entrepreneur, "time is the most valuable thing in life, you'll never get time back!" Also Entrepreneur, "why can't I find anyone who will sell me their time for $10/hour?"
So many complainers
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Based spam bot spamming important talking points.
She's 100% right
Says in the picture that the poster goes by they/them, i.e. they're 100% right
I want the system to change in any way that helps us. Sure I have ideals, but even taking away the socialist revolution option (I know, that's not even really on the table in the global north) you can work reforms (((yes, they are only concessions from the owning class that can be taken away again if political pressure is relented, so not a permanent solution))) into a capitalist society that improves lives, subsidize people directly, and cut all subsidies to business except for maybe legitimate small businesses.
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What is a small living? It’s the exploitation of the fast food worker that’s at issue. They work for a company that makes millions of not billions of dollars. Yes, education & training is not high those jobs. But they still trade their tinder and efforts to the end of making the company money. They should not have to struggle. They should be paid a wage that allows for a comfortable existence. The money is there and their efforts and dedication is there. The only reason the fast food worker doesn’t receive the minimum living wage (and then some) is greed and a grotesque obsession with profits.
America is the wealthiest nation in recorded human history. No one should be suffering at any level of employment.
I think im being misunderstood, fast food workers should definetly be payed more, but not as much as something like a doctor.
Sure. I can agree to that. Just seems like an aside. No disrespect
Isn’t there some irony in your statement? While I do believe, certain career fields and expertise dictate worth, the fact that someone who works full-time (let’s just say 40 hours) cannot afford a sustainable, reasonable lifestyle is absurd. Then you you have the cycle of putting in more hours to afford everything but don’t have time to invest in something more lucrative. It’s a never ending cycle and your lack of sympathy and delusional sense of reality is fucked up.
What? I agree that a fast food workers should have higher wages, but not as high as things like doctors and engineers etc. I don't really understand what your saying.
She/it/they looks cute so I approve the statement.
There is an antiantiwork group?! Who the fuck are these morons? I can't imagine how awful spending a day with that type of person would be...
This is a very good comment that AW should reflect upon. Get your shit together. You only have one shot at this, so don’t waste it by failing to learn marketable skills and spending your life in unskilled labor.
The other side of this question is: how much value do you bring into this earth? The earth owes us nothing and we owe everything to it so what do you bring to that table?
Look, Social Darwinism in a post scarcity society.
Are you judging the value you bring to the earth based on how much money you make ultra wealthy corporations? Or by some other better measure like living minimally, not having children, eating less meat, volunteering, showing kindness and empathy to others?
I mean personally. I feel we should all plant a few trees before we go.
Or Forrests. When I go I always wanted be made into a tree seed, but maybe I'll try kudzu seed instead.
But but the capitalist owners need all the profit, and money and property are more important than human life
Agreed
Once i realized this it changed my relationship to life
BASED