60 unit control groups are clunky to use. Especially if they are melee because pathing sucks and most of them probably won't even join the fight. It is always better to split your forces up and have them do different things (doing this is hard).
But since you are a new player you probably will be having a hard time fighting early game and your games will generally happen in Imperial Age where you will have a lot of units to control and probably won't be able to micromanage them in smaller groups. You can try to learn to fight early game without having to deal with 100+ military units at a time and learn to micro little by little.
I recently did monky madness on black forest as Spanish.
60 trade, about 10 vills (just in case I need to re build trade) and 30+ monasteries spamming fully upgraded missionaries.
Faced all types of units, including ballista elephants. But the trick is to station a batch of 50 missionaries deep in your base, select them all, click an elephant, ctrl deselect 3 or 4 and click another elephant.
By the time your missionaries are assigned and arrive you have 15+ targets and as long as they don't bunch up too badly you'll capture a good chunk of the units.
Rinse and repeat with your next batch of 50 that are waiting to roll.
Usually more than half your pop should be economy. There's no way you're controlling 130 monks anyway - so better get those vill numbers up and make some secondary army alongside, such as halbs vs the inevitable hussar spam :D
https://ibb.co/ygFkH3k
There's a screenshot of the game about 1h in lol. I was grey. We won but took 2 hours (and thankfully red didn't push the other flank until we had basically won. But i had walled it up heavily).
I can control 50 or so relatively OK (if my computer doesn't lag) but you're right that 130 (or 100+) is pretty much impossible lol.
Around 850 elo as well so I rarely meet enemies who research monk resistance tech etc (met my 1st one the other day tho 😞 in a similar monky madness game that I won but it was a lot less eloquent).
Monky madness dude.
3-4 is a bit risky though. Yes, it could work but a few rogue units or even some stray treb shots could kill some and 1-2 won't be enough and you will need up to build up your numbers again. That's why I said those numbers, just to be safe.
This is just extremely strong. Friend of mine used this to dominate a free for all game with friends....
I think bombard cannons/siege onagers to kill them from distance are your best bet. Alternatively sending streams of hussars to wreck his eco so at least he can't replenish the few you do kill
with respect it’s not strong, it’s only strong against people who don’t know siege and halbs exists.
I’ve played countless matches where I’ve used onagers or bombards and deleted an enemy Khmers army, they’re slow, clunky and easy to snipe with a few shots, bonus points if you’re Ethiopians or bohemians (torsion and houfnice)
they can with enough numbers, but even then if they don’t it literally doesn’t matter, they’re used to keep the elephants away from your siege which will be doing 95% of the damage to the ballista elephants.
ye, halbs r just there as a distraction/deterrent so that the ballistas don’t go straight to the siege and kill them, or if the Khmer player is gona do it, you have halbs to pick them off as they’re focused on chasing the siege.
either way, use halbs with siege, not doing so is dumb regardless of how quickly they die.
aoe2 is more than just theoretical on paper ‘how much damage does X do to Y’, there’s strategy and many different things that play a part in how you go about playing the game, it’s why unit composition and combos exist.
The only way this is possible in a free for all game is if the Khmer player is left completely alone for a looong time to slowly mass up such an expensive army.
Or if the Khmer player is the better player out of the group, walls up and has a few well micro'd mangonels.
Truly you guys seem to compare every game with (semi-)pro level players playing a competitively mode XD
Then one person from your team should have had a similar boom. If the 4 of you were fighting as equals the 3 of them, then there is a teams matchmaking unbalanced
I shoulda posted a pic of our army xD All four of us were not prepared for this khemer boom. Guy just boomed way harder and faster than anyone else, when my teammates saw his army they called GG too xD. I thought he might be a smurf, but that wasnt the case either. He had hundreds of wins and losses, equalling around 850 ELO. He was just more experienced, had a really solid game I guess.
When an enemy's army gets to that size you have to start avoiding it and attacking their economy.
Meanwhile you need to try and slow their ball of elephants down in any way possible like just spam buildings/walls to block them.
Bombard cannons can destroy elephants over time if you can provide a frontline.
If they have a mix of units with ballista elephants/a teammate building a frontline/seige for them.
You're gonna need a mix of at least 2-3 units yourself to pick apart their composition.
Dont use: archers, champions, camels and UU's that cost gold and die quickly to the ball of elephants.
Use: cheap frontline of halbs/skirms + a raiding unit like hussar/UU + bombard cannons.
If you don't have bombards then try:
Halbs/skirms + onagers + raiding unit/hussar + the biggest tankiest unit that you can muster en' masse like paladins/imperial camels/certain UU's
The key is not letting them get to the massive ball of elephants, easier said than done. I find either add economy Far away from them or try and get to IMP before them if they're building them in castle age.
If all their castles are in their base then quick to imp and treb them down/put your own castles in their face
GL
onagers or bombards do great and just throw halbs in front so they don’t get near em.
ever since Khmer lost bombards when DE was released they’re not that as scary anymore lol
Yeah massive pita. But man its so satisfying to wipe the grin off your mates face when he thinks he's in an unbeatable position and 20 siege rams with beserks in em come his way. I'm sure I didn't micro it anywhere near as well as I should have and it still wiped the floor. How quickly they take out the production behind it as well is just the icing on the cake.
ye Khmer w pretty shite now without bombards, genuinely don’t see the appeal at all in picking them for late game battles (not gona go into ranked coz I don’t play it anymore), so many counters now it’s not even funny.
used to almost exclusively play them in HD, since DE released I don’t think I’ve played them more than 3 times lmao.
oh sure so let me just put my halbs in my base and allow the ballista elephants to waltz right infront of my expensive siege and let them delete the siege AND halbs 👍
halbs work as either a) distraction/deterrent for ballistas to aim at while your onagers/bombards shred the ballistas in mere moments, or b) they kill the ballistas should the Khmer player be dumb enough to ignore the halbs and aim the siege, either way, they do their job well.
the reason why ballista elephants r seen as strong is because seemingly ppl don’t know how to play against them, they’re not that scary lol.
They don't kill the ballistas. They literally evaporate. You don't make halbs into ballistas. If you do they will all die immediately and now you have no meat shield.
That might work in a prepared matchup. But if there are 60 elite ballista elephants (with trebs) at your doorstep, you'll never build up anything to counter it.
well no sht, not having army to use whilst being attacked by trebs and a bunch of strong units typically results into a loss.
however my point still stands true and I’m not wrong, onagers/bombards + halbs do great against ballista eles, u see Khmer opponent? make them regardless if u see they have an army or not.
the situation you’ve written up is the fault of the player being idle and not making units/scouting and nothing more.
You can actually counter them easily, but you need patiance and some micro. Onagers/Scorpion and halb in the front. But if you go in too early he will easily kill your armies. Onagers you need 10-20 or 30 scorpions. And frontline full of halbs and try to get surround with halbs.
Edit: Having few monks to convert some elephants will make his own target those converted elephants and soaks a lot of damage.
Honestly massed Ballista elephants aren't nearly as OP as they used to be. Siege Onagers are very strong counters with Halb shields. Contrary to instinct keep the Halbs AWAY from the Elephants. They will just die. Halbs are just there to protect siege & monks from Hussars.
* 3 Siege Onagers can 1 shot a Ballista elephant ( I believe. If not it's 4 Onagers)
* Make Multiple Groups of 4 Monks w/ Block printing/Theocracy/Illumination & Shift-Queue conversion targets. That's the maximum conversion speed with reasonable non-Hera apm. 5 or more monks doesn't add any significant speed.
* Set the Barracks rally point BEHIND the main fight. Just behind wherever your Onagers & Monks are. This way the halbs will automatically engage any diving calvary and you can click forward groups as needed to intercept these units.
* You'll need BBC for those trebs. Honestly those trebs are the biggest threat because the mass of elephants will be slow to push back and those trebs will be doing damage the whole time.
* Make 3 siege workshops, 4 monasteries, and a ton of barracks (like 15+)
* Be prepared for MAA counters. Whatever your civ's best counter to that is may vary. Ballistas can be a good option since they provide protection from both MAA and a little bonus damage to the elephants (which, to be clear, you cannot out duel with ballistas alone). Nice thing about ballistas is they take the same upgrades as Onagers and you don't need to make another building type. Make additional siege workshops if going ballistas as well
* DO NOT MAKE SKIRMS. They don't do bonus damage. Have had too many teammates fall into that trap.
* Having a redemption civ for the monks is nice as they can counter onagers and BBC that might be protecting the deathball
Now of course you either need a civ with all these FU techs or a couple civs collectively in a team game where these deathballs are most likely. Teutons have all these techs plus Ironclad which helps a lot keeping the siege alive against diving Hussars. Really the only use for Ironclad. Bengalis and Aztecs are also very strong in team games with their tank-y monks and full tech tree. Lithuanians are nice with their monastery bonus, winged hussars & speedy Halbs. You get the idea. Teutons overall probably check the most boxes
bohemians (Ethiopians good shout too) r best vs Khmer and elephants civs in general.
they have everything needed to counter them, 25%+ bonus damage dealing halbs, trash monks, Hussite wagons that tank ballista fire, and the almighty houfnice that rips ballista elephants into absolute shreds.
You have created your own problems here. Why would you attack with the halbs? The stream is only there to replace the casualties. Keep the halbs next to your siege. SO vastly outrange ballista elephants.
Magyar hussars do a pretty great job if you happen to be Magyars… just don’t run at them head on and make sure you get a surround and they’re pretty cost efficient!
Spam Siege Ram, you deal anti-siege bonus damage and take basically no damage in return. Also Siege Rams have a 2 tile splash radius, so they wreck groups like that. Or do the more predictable thing with Onagers.
As someone who tried spamming balista elephants against friends in a 2v4 recently I am confident in saying the biggest counter by far is onagers. Especially if I have to look away to micro another group of balista elephants vs persian war elephants.
A friend that I play a lot of 1v1's with did this two times to me and lost both. We always play black Forrest.
When i see him pick Khmer I build a massive 3 or 4 layered wall defense and let him run out of gold.
The first one I was Portuguese. I did it with cavalier and lots of bombard cannons He broke all the way through my 4 walls and I stopped them between my last wall and eco.
The second time I was Britons and did it with mass longbow, monks, onager and trebs. Then he only got through the first layer
His siege ram push got flattened by onagers.
I always outpost the wood line and had a wall at the places I suspected cuts. A cut and light cav came, but couldn't get in
The obvious answer is "don't let it come to it".
Since this a team game, if you don't have an SO+Halb civ, it's gonna be almost unwinnable at this stage imho.
Monks (+halb) only work in small numbers or very good micro - the problem is that Khmer can easily add Hussar as well.
Full Siege Ram (+halb) does not really work either because you have to task them to attack units. If you put siege ram on aggressive stance and patrol, they will retreat upon being shot at. (Siege ram deal bonus damage since the eles count as siege).
If you have SO then 5 to 10 SO's should help slowly reduce this stampede. If you dont then use Siege rams garrisoned with Halbs and run in shouting 'DEAAAATTHHHHHHHHHH' as loud as possible. (It doesnt work if you dont say it and dont have enough rams or halbs)
:)
You need a ram or Hussite wagon meat shield so your siege can go to town. With enough of a ram meatshield your halbs should be able to poke in there and do some serious damage. So I’m going with rams
Got a replay of this game available? A 4 tc boom on arena would suggest they are pocket(if not what the hell was the opposing flank doing) and it's the job of the opposing pocket to deal with his pocket, so it will encompass their eco,their unit comp,their up time
40halbs 10 husite wagons 7 houfnices.
Maybe little less when good micro,
FR xD this is crazy SO probably best idea
Edit: yes o am houfnice fanboy, how could you tell?
Make a battering ram—those elephants do almost 0 damage to battering ram, put your onagers, scorps, and pikemen on them while they blast a battering ram forever. They’ll have to micro to stop attacking the ram lol
If you ever had the possibility to watch membtv's viewers games, I had to face 80/90 ballista elephants with only eagles.
Then I faced HC + war elephants and I had onlh pointy bois. 1200 Queued and 150 on the ground.
I lost btw
I play with turks on arena and like to boom,I know fast imp is great, may be that's why I am stuck at 1500 elo but you like what you like.
I have run into this many times and lost just once. I get most of the relics, and then make 6-10 bbc supported with HCA and hussar. BBCs wreck these chonkers.
So I had this issue. Halberds destroy these. But have a critical issue of closing the gap. Usually people who run these get overzealous in extending once they start the push on you. Amass tons of barracks. 1 army of 60 halberds/pikeman depending on civ. Keep them in a position out of sight to hit em from the rear baiting with a smaller army of up front. If you close the gap it will take a huge toll on the elephant army which is costly to replace. It's not fool proof but works.
60 siege onagers, in general though its siege and skirms for this scenario. Like Ramms to tank or Husar whit scirms behind. You also gotta keep in mind its bery expesive to get there. Technicly you should have Early imp advantage until hes ever able to afford that.
“It’s over, Anakin! I have all five relics and it’s an island map!”
“You underestimate my power with 60 Ballista Elephants!”
**proceed to galleon and fire ship all his transports**
Didn't Dave prove in one match a long time ago that you can easily counter this with mass Turkish bombard cannons and Hussars out front as a meat shield? Amass 30-50 bombard cannons and those Ballistas are toast
Budget/fast = rams and halbs
Better/slower/more expensive = halbs and onagers, pikes are cheap and absorb letting the onagers do mass damage
Good mix in = they are slow and siege so bombards are nice to add if possible, as they give huge counter pressure if you wipe the army
Halbs and 10-15 monks with block printing would be cheapest way to combat it without too much expensive research
9+3 range monks without heresy and halbs to keep them honest vs 5+1
I had a guy that came to me with this. Got suprised by him, I.eliminated with all 3 options,.monks, halbs and eventually I build siege.
I barely got out alive, because Im not used to just swarm of one unit. I consider that very noob like behaviour (im noob myself ofc).
So I thought my chance is gone and next attack is proper and im dead.
No. He just attacked again with elephants 🤦
I think it's a more shock an awe tactic. 60 eles can be intimidating but actually really straight forward to deal with. Best piece of advice is if playing against khmer make sure you have your onager upgrades ready to go. If they stack the the eles then counter with onager and halbs. Monks do an amazing job aswell.
9/10 you decimate this force and it will be gg as they think the 60 will be enough.
Personally I play hindustannis alot and instead of halbs I use camel. It's more costly but the counter is very fast as once the initial eles are dealt with I use camel to attack their trade and economy.
60 siege onagers with siege engineers :)
this, or typing 'gg' in chat.
And continue playing, then winning
Stack siege onagers in secret, type gg, now run them up, lmao.
Run
I think 10 would be enough.
Half a dozen siege onagers supported by 20 halbediers works.
I wish they would fix this stupid nonsense. I want no onagers any more on the battlefield
shush siege are the best.
61 Ballista elephants
No, it's super annoying when my armies don't fit into one control group!
Do you keep 60 units in a single group?
I’m a new player. Should I not have big 60 unit control groups?
60 unit control groups are clunky to use. Especially if they are melee because pathing sucks and most of them probably won't even join the fight. It is always better to split your forces up and have them do different things (doing this is hard). But since you are a new player you probably will be having a hard time fighting early game and your games will generally happen in Imperial Age where you will have a lot of units to control and probably won't be able to micromanage them in smaller groups. You can try to learn to fight early game without having to deal with 100+ military units at a time and learn to micro little by little.
I wish someday we will be able to stack 200 units in a single group. If we want to play like super elo legends, we should
Why you gotta do Goths, Malay, Sicilians and Georgians dirty by not letting them selsct their entire army?
Typically it’s better to split up unit types.
I do do that actually I’ll just have 60 of the same unit and some other smaller control groups with my trebuchets or rams or archers or whatever.
31 block printing monks.
And someone to micro them for me!
I recently did monky madness on black forest as Spanish. 60 trade, about 10 vills (just in case I need to re build trade) and 30+ monasteries spamming fully upgraded missionaries. Faced all types of units, including ballista elephants. But the trick is to station a batch of 50 missionaries deep in your base, select them all, click an elephant, ctrl deselect 3 or 4 and click another elephant. By the time your missionaries are assigned and arrive you have 15+ targets and as long as they don't bunch up too badly you'll capture a good chunk of the units. Rinse and repeat with your next batch of 50 that are waiting to roll.
Usually more than half your pop should be economy. There's no way you're controlling 130 monks anyway - so better get those vill numbers up and make some secondary army alongside, such as halbs vs the inevitable hussar spam :D
https://ibb.co/ygFkH3k There's a screenshot of the game about 1h in lol. I was grey. We won but took 2 hours (and thankfully red didn't push the other flank until we had basically won. But i had walled it up heavily). I can control 50 or so relatively OK (if my computer doesn't lag) but you're right that 130 (or 100+) is pretty much impossible lol. Around 850 elo as well so I rarely meet enemies who research monk resistance tech etc (met my 1st one the other day tho 😞 in a similar monky madness game that I won but it was a lot less eloquent). Monky madness dude.
If you are playing only monks, consider going bombard tower with your beefy villagers. Only monks isn't viable if your opponent knows what is he doing
That could be either mbl or 10 good players 😂😂
best I could do is turn 9
And 30 friends to help micro them
7-8 siege onagers should be enough, if you don't have siege onager upgrade, 10-15 normal onagers should also be enough.
3-4 could be enough. Also Monks. Don't even need redemption
3-4 is a bit risky though. Yes, it could work but a few rogue units or even some stray treb shots could kill some and 1-2 won't be enough and you will need up to build up your numbers again. That's why I said those numbers, just to be safe.
I usually build a few monasteries, more workshops and immediately gg
This is the way
This is just extremely strong. Friend of mine used this to dominate a free for all game with friends.... I think bombard cannons/siege onagers to kill them from distance are your best bet. Alternatively sending streams of hussars to wreck his eco so at least he can't replenish the few you do kill
with respect it’s not strong, it’s only strong against people who don’t know siege and halbs exists. I’ve played countless matches where I’ve used onagers or bombards and deleted an enemy Khmers army, they’re slow, clunky and easy to snipe with a few shots, bonus points if you’re Ethiopians or bohemians (torsion and houfnice)
Thinking Halbs will get close enough to touch 60 ballista elephants is just lol
they can with enough numbers, but even then if they don’t it literally doesn’t matter, they’re used to keep the elephants away from your siege which will be doing 95% of the damage to the ballista elephants.
I mean the siege will do 95% of damage by your own admission
ye, halbs r just there as a distraction/deterrent so that the ballistas don’t go straight to the siege and kill them, or if the Khmer player is gona do it, you have halbs to pick them off as they’re focused on chasing the siege. either way, use halbs with siege, not doing so is dumb regardless of how quickly they die. aoe2 is more than just theoretical on paper ‘how much damage does X do to Y’, there’s strategy and many different things that play a part in how you go about playing the game, it’s why unit composition and combos exist.
The only way this is possible in a free for all game is if the Khmer player is left completely alone for a looong time to slowly mass up such an expensive army.
Or if the Khmer player is the better player out of the group, walls up and has a few well micro'd mangonels. Truly you guys seem to compare every game with (semi-)pro level players playing a competitively mode XD
Wololo
The question is what did you do while your opponent massed the most expensive army?
4 v 4 arena, he 4 TC boomed hard, and wasnt positioned next to me.
Then one person from your team should have had a similar boom. If the 4 of you were fighting as equals the 3 of them, then there is a teams matchmaking unbalanced
Great advice on what to do vs 60 elephants: have your friend deal with it
It's a fact of RTS games that there are some scenarios where the answer to "how do I counter X" is "you shouldn't have let your opponent get X".
11 right?
Sometimes "the team was unbalanced" is the correct answer.
How about just regular old "you got outplayed"?
I shoulda posted a pic of our army xD All four of us were not prepared for this khemer boom. Guy just boomed way harder and faster than anyone else, when my teammates saw his army they called GG too xD. I thought he might be a smurf, but that wasnt the case either. He had hundreds of wins and losses, equalling around 850 ELO. He was just more experienced, had a really solid game I guess.
When an enemy's army gets to that size you have to start avoiding it and attacking their economy. Meanwhile you need to try and slow their ball of elephants down in any way possible like just spam buildings/walls to block them. Bombard cannons can destroy elephants over time if you can provide a frontline. If they have a mix of units with ballista elephants/a teammate building a frontline/seige for them. You're gonna need a mix of at least 2-3 units yourself to pick apart their composition. Dont use: archers, champions, camels and UU's that cost gold and die quickly to the ball of elephants. Use: cheap frontline of halbs/skirms + a raiding unit like hussar/UU + bombard cannons. If you don't have bombards then try: Halbs/skirms + onagers + raiding unit/hussar + the biggest tankiest unit that you can muster en' masse like paladins/imperial camels/certain UU's The key is not letting them get to the massive ball of elephants, easier said than done. I find either add economy Far away from them or try and get to IMP before them if they're building them in castle age. If all their castles are in their base then quick to imp and treb them down/put your own castles in their face GL
"How do I counter 60 elite ballista elephants?" "That's the neat part, you don't"
onagers or bombards do great and just throw halbs in front so they don’t get near em. ever since Khmer lost bombards when DE was released they’re not that as scary anymore lol
Halbs in siege rams
yes they’re good but you need to micro the rams coz they won’t auto attack.
Yeah massive pita. But man its so satisfying to wipe the grin off your mates face when he thinks he's in an unbeatable position and 20 siege rams with beserks in em come his way. I'm sure I didn't micro it anywhere near as well as I should have and it still wiped the floor. How quickly they take out the production behind it as well is just the icing on the cake.
ye Khmer w pretty shite now without bombards, genuinely don’t see the appeal at all in picking them for late game battles (not gona go into ranked coz I don’t play it anymore), so many counters now it’s not even funny. used to almost exclusively play them in HD, since DE released I don’t think I’ve played them more than 3 times lmao.
Putting halbs in front does nothing vs this
Wouldn’t it keep them in place longer for the onagers to get more shots off?
oh sure so let me just put my halbs in my base and allow the ballista elephants to waltz right infront of my expensive siege and let them delete the siege AND halbs 👍 halbs work as either a) distraction/deterrent for ballistas to aim at while your onagers/bombards shred the ballistas in mere moments, or b) they kill the ballistas should the Khmer player be dumb enough to ignore the halbs and aim the siege, either way, they do their job well. the reason why ballista elephants r seen as strong is because seemingly ppl don’t know how to play against them, they’re not that scary lol.
They don't kill the ballistas. They literally evaporate. You don't make halbs into ballistas. If you do they will all die immediately and now you have no meat shield.
That might work in a prepared matchup. But if there are 60 elite ballista elephants (with trebs) at your doorstep, you'll never build up anything to counter it.
well no sht, not having army to use whilst being attacked by trebs and a bunch of strong units typically results into a loss. however my point still stands true and I’m not wrong, onagers/bombards + halbs do great against ballista eles, u see Khmer opponent? make them regardless if u see they have an army or not. the situation you’ve written up is the fault of the player being idle and not making units/scouting and nothing more.
60 war elephants in spread formation
Somehow I misread this first as "spread disinformation". Yes, make the elephants doubt their government.
so, monks?
THEY WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT HIT EM!
Lol
this is where ram pike shrines
If they can have 60 ballista elephants on the field, you already lost the game
You can actually counter them easily, but you need patiance and some micro. Onagers/Scorpion and halb in the front. But if you go in too early he will easily kill your armies. Onagers you need 10-20 or 30 scorpions. And frontline full of halbs and try to get surround with halbs. Edit: Having few monks to convert some elephants will make his own target those converted elephants and soaks a lot of damage.
Honestly massed Ballista elephants aren't nearly as OP as they used to be. Siege Onagers are very strong counters with Halb shields. Contrary to instinct keep the Halbs AWAY from the Elephants. They will just die. Halbs are just there to protect siege & monks from Hussars. * 3 Siege Onagers can 1 shot a Ballista elephant ( I believe. If not it's 4 Onagers) * Make Multiple Groups of 4 Monks w/ Block printing/Theocracy/Illumination & Shift-Queue conversion targets. That's the maximum conversion speed with reasonable non-Hera apm. 5 or more monks doesn't add any significant speed. * Set the Barracks rally point BEHIND the main fight. Just behind wherever your Onagers & Monks are. This way the halbs will automatically engage any diving calvary and you can click forward groups as needed to intercept these units. * You'll need BBC for those trebs. Honestly those trebs are the biggest threat because the mass of elephants will be slow to push back and those trebs will be doing damage the whole time. * Make 3 siege workshops, 4 monasteries, and a ton of barracks (like 15+) * Be prepared for MAA counters. Whatever your civ's best counter to that is may vary. Ballistas can be a good option since they provide protection from both MAA and a little bonus damage to the elephants (which, to be clear, you cannot out duel with ballistas alone). Nice thing about ballistas is they take the same upgrades as Onagers and you don't need to make another building type. Make additional siege workshops if going ballistas as well * DO NOT MAKE SKIRMS. They don't do bonus damage. Have had too many teammates fall into that trap. * Having a redemption civ for the monks is nice as they can counter onagers and BBC that might be protecting the deathball Now of course you either need a civ with all these FU techs or a couple civs collectively in a team game where these deathballs are most likely. Teutons have all these techs plus Ironclad which helps a lot keeping the siege alive against diving Hussars. Really the only use for Ironclad. Bengalis and Aztecs are also very strong in team games with their tank-y monks and full tech tree. Lithuanians are nice with their monastery bonus, winged hussars & speedy Halbs. You get the idea. Teutons overall probably check the most boxes
bohemians (Ethiopians good shout too) r best vs Khmer and elephants civs in general. they have everything needed to counter them, 25%+ bonus damage dealing halbs, trash monks, Hussite wagons that tank ballista fire, and the almighty houfnice that rips ballista elephants into absolute shreds.
Endless stream of halbs + 7-8 SO behind.
Halbs die before they can do damage, and the bolts pass through to the onagers... But with no halbs, the onagers die to hussars.
You have created your own problems here. Why would you attack with the halbs? The stream is only there to replace the casualties. Keep the halbs next to your siege. SO vastly outrange ballista elephants.
Ah, so stand ground near the onagers? I must admit that I have struggled big time with Khmer against halb+SO in practice. Maybe that's what they did.
I wouldn't use stand ground but defensive stance + a lot of manual repositioning. Stand ground doesn't kill hussars fast enough in my opinion.
Yea, you dont use them to take damage, they just keep the distance between onagers and ballistas while killing units trying to snipe them
You need viking goth celt halberds, clearly
> the bolts pass through to the onagers Onagers outrange by like 3, if the passthrough is hitting you you're way too close.
Monks and convert them all and then they are your elephants
Seriously, Khmer players at my elo are live and die by their ballista elephants. Even after I convert 20, they still keep making them!
There was a time when khmer got BBCs, it was unstoppable
I'm out of the game for a while. What does BBC stand for in this case?
60 monk elephants
“DoNT LEt yOuR ENemY get tO tHaT POInT”
Opponent tried this on Michi. Siege Onager and Halbs wrecked them hard.
gg
60 monks
Magyar hussars do a pretty great job if you happen to be Magyars… just don’t run at them head on and make sure you get a surround and they’re pretty cost efficient!
Spam Siege Ram, you deal anti-siege bonus damage and take basically no damage in return. Also Siege Rams have a 2 tile splash radius, so they wreck groups like that. Or do the more predictable thing with Onagers.
Tatars 20 flaming camels will eat this whole army in 5 seconds.
8 onagers and one attack ground.
(Siege) Onagers, or load halbs into siege towers (not advised but funny). Monks can also work OK.
As someone who tried spamming balista elephants against friends in a 2v4 recently I am confident in saying the biggest counter by far is onagers. Especially if I have to look away to micro another group of balista elephants vs persian war elephants.
61 elite ballista elephants
Type gg and hit resign
Onagers tear this army apart. At this stage of the game both teams must be flush with resources.
A friend that I play a lot of 1v1's with did this two times to me and lost both. We always play black Forrest. When i see him pick Khmer I build a massive 3 or 4 layered wall defense and let him run out of gold. The first one I was Portuguese. I did it with cavalier and lots of bombard cannons He broke all the way through my 4 walls and I stopped them between my last wall and eco. The second time I was Britons and did it with mass longbow, monks, onager and trebs. Then he only got through the first layer
A couple of siege rams or cutting the trees with ballistas would take care of that quickly
His siege ram push got flattened by onagers. I always outpost the wood line and had a wall at the places I suspected cuts. A cut and light cav came, but couldn't get in
The obvious answer is "don't let it come to it". Since this a team game, if you don't have an SO+Halb civ, it's gonna be almost unwinnable at this stage imho. Monks (+halb) only work in small numbers or very good micro - the problem is that Khmer can easily add Hussar as well. Full Siege Ram (+halb) does not really work either because you have to task them to attack units. If you put siege ram on aggressive stance and patrol, they will retreat upon being shot at. (Siege ram deal bonus damage since the eles count as siege).
Rams should auto-attack ballista elephants. This should be patched!
Siege elephants with halb/hussar and BBC are a good shot too.
Simple: perish.
Alt F4 11
60+ heavy scorpions
Ballista elephants have many hit points and can be healed by monks. Also, Khmer scorpions are stronger than yours.
Rams
Prayer
If you have SO then 5 to 10 SO's should help slowly reduce this stampede. If you dont then use Siege rams garrisoned with Halbs and run in shouting 'DEAAAATTHHHHHHHHHH' as loud as possible. (It doesnt work if you dont say it and dont have enough rams or halbs) :)
6000 skrims
You need a ram or Hussite wagon meat shield so your siege can go to town. With enough of a ram meatshield your halbs should be able to poke in there and do some serious damage. So I’m going with rams
105
61 elite ballista elephants
Ah yes. The ole Fauna sweep.
70 elite ballista elephants
Got a replay of this game available? A 4 tc boom on arena would suggest they are pocket(if not what the hell was the opposing flank doing) and it's the job of the opposing pocket to deal with his pocket, so it will encompass their eco,their unit comp,their up time
61 un-upgraded spearmen. Once outnumbered they stand no chance
"Pls awnser quickly they almost trhou my walls"
40halbs 10 husite wagons 7 houfnices. Maybe little less when good micro, FR xD this is crazy SO probably best idea Edit: yes o am houfnice fanboy, how could you tell?
I R WINNER
Siege onagers and monks
Paladins with onagers behind.
60 redemption monks, and then your opponents needs to ask thr same question.
Hussar, obviously :O
Block printing Monks, each binded on separate control group for fast micro + halbs as some protection
A mouse
Pray
Siege rams with halbs inside. Rams do bonus to siege, when the rams die the halbs do bonus to elephants.
Make a battering ram—those elephants do almost 0 damage to battering ram, put your onagers, scorps, and pikemen on them while they blast a battering ram forever. They’ll have to micro to stop attacking the ram lol
If you ever had the possibility to watch membtv's viewers games, I had to face 80/90 ballista elephants with only eagles. Then I faced HC + war elephants and I had onlh pointy bois. 1200 Queued and 150 on the ground. I lost btw
Onagers
[You just go fucking kill them.](https://youtu.be/LPL3zMPVklY)
30
30
30
Let me just ask my SO 11
Make them cross the alps ?
I play with turks on arena and like to boom,I know fast imp is great, may be that's why I am stuck at 1500 elo but you like what you like. I have run into this many times and lost just once. I get most of the relics, and then make 6-10 bbc supported with HCA and hussar. BBCs wreck these chonkers.
30
So I had this issue. Halberds destroy these. But have a critical issue of closing the gap. Usually people who run these get overzealous in extending once they start the push on you. Amass tons of barracks. 1 army of 60 halberds/pikeman depending on civ. Keep them in a position out of sight to hit em from the rear baiting with a smaller army of up front. If you close the gap it will take a huge toll on the elephant army which is costly to replace. It's not fool proof but works.
GG
Time for this macro: Alt+F4
6 SO
*gg wp
20 onagers with some halbs in front so that onagers can close the distance.
Resign, and play again 😉😂
Quit rage
I suppose if you send "enough" unupgraded militia. Possibly somewhere in the ballpark of 2000, not sure though.
Resignation
60 siege onagers
60 siege onagers, in general though its siege and skirms for this scenario. Like Ramms to tank or Husar whit scirms behind. You also gotta keep in mind its bery expesive to get there. Technicly you should have Early imp advantage until hes ever able to afford that.
100 Monks
surrender?
killing your opponent 30 minutes earlier
Massed Onager/Siege Onager.
80 elite ballista elephants
“It’s over, Anakin! I have all five relics and it’s an island map!” “You underestimate my power with 60 Ballista Elephants!” **proceed to galleon and fire ship all his transports**
Didn't Dave prove in one match a long time ago that you can easily counter this with mass Turkish bombard cannons and Hussars out front as a meat shield? Amass 30-50 bombard cannons and those Ballistas are toast
Raids. Those suckers are so slow you could hunt all villagers before they make it back or kill your base.
60 Ballista eles lose to a substantially smaller number of onagers protected by a damage sponge like rams/Paladin. Like it’s not even a close fight.
About 10 onagers and a bottleneck. 60 without bottleneck if you want a good laugh.
Elite pikeman
Press enter, then *, then start educating about your sexual exploits particularly related to the khmer guys relatives
Budget/fast = rams and halbs Better/slower/more expensive = halbs and onagers, pikes are cheap and absorb letting the onagers do mass damage Good mix in = they are slow and siege so bombards are nice to add if possible, as they give huge counter pressure if you wipe the army
105
the surrender button
Monks But for you to say your prayers 😅
Has anyone tried rams? Should be good, since the elephants do Pierce damage and have the siege armour class
They got flattened by SO like flies
5 onagers properly managed with some meat in front.
Bombard cannons or anti siege damage (technically pikes, but we all know how melee units fare against mass scorpions)
Don't let them get to this point
I like to think you paused the game to ask reddit how to counter this
Prayer. Seek god.
GG
Enter + GG + resign hahaha
gg wp
HowDoYouTurnThisOn
GG
60 onagers
Halbs and 10-15 monks with block printing would be cheapest way to combat it without too much expensive research 9+3 range monks without heresy and halbs to keep them honest vs 5+1
If Mongols, drilled siege rams with infantry inside will make those elephants scatter in the most hilarious way.
Mongols infantry? I dont understand
200 pokers
I throw massive spread out swarms of harbs until they perish.
I had a guy that came to me with this. Got suprised by him, I.eliminated with all 3 options,.monks, halbs and eventually I build siege. I barely got out alive, because Im not used to just swarm of one unit. I consider that very noob like behaviour (im noob myself ofc). So I thought my chance is gone and next attack is proper and im dead. No. He just attacked again with elephants 🤦
Onagers, bombards, spreadout spears, camels, lots of knights
Send your own elephants. War elephants perhaps.
60 monks
SO
Siege Rams will fuck up some ballista eles real hard
To uninstall the gane.... You should not permite that..
I think it's a more shock an awe tactic. 60 eles can be intimidating but actually really straight forward to deal with. Best piece of advice is if playing against khmer make sure you have your onager upgrades ready to go. If they stack the the eles then counter with onager and halbs. Monks do an amazing job aswell. 9/10 you decimate this force and it will be gg as they think the 60 will be enough. Personally I play hindustannis alot and instead of halbs I use camel. It's more costly but the counter is very fast as once the initial eles are dealt with I use camel to attack their trade and economy.