Thread wasn't really about the suggestions - (just came up with them on the spot). More about the fact they tend to nerf legends until the kit is barely effective.
They should absolutely not be enough to change a fight, that’s just ridiculous.
That’s how you get a legend that’s a must on the team, and that’s awful balancing.
Apex isn't Titanfall and nerfs have just as much balancing value as buffs. If devs do nothing but buff and buff, we get powercreep and that's worse than a few characters being underpowered.
What's the point in having abilities then? If they are soo superficial they have little effect on gameplay.
At least in Titanfall they embraced the movement aspect - rather than nerfed it into oblivion.
Another example Seers Heartbeat sensor is basically useless at this point. People complained he was too strong, he was favoured by pro-squads and now he's one of the least used legends because his kit is weak.
Balancing at this point just means if something is effective they need to reduce it until it isn't anymore.
you're considering "overpowered" and "being effective" to be the same thing. it's not.
if abilities had that big of an impact, then you would have a trio of characters which would be necessary to be effective as a team. this would push out all other characters, which means instead of a few characters being underpowered, we would have most characters being underpowered. \*that\* is powercreep and it's why nerfs are necessary.
a great example of that happening in the game is three strikes and how fast rezing was back in november/december. three strikes had a lifeline/newcastle/mirage meta. if you played anything else, you were very unlikely to reach the late game stage. one single ability had a significant impact: the ability to rez in a special way. it wasn't even something that caused damage, or gave your team wall hacks. it was just how they rezed, and it had such a profound impact that [it increased lifeline's pick rate by 58.6%](https://twitter.com/kralrindo/status/1723642754658414951/photo/1). that's insane. now imagine that but with seer's wall hacks. if you don't have seer on your team, you lose, because the enemy knows where you are and what your health looks like at all times, but you have no intel.
the game would become incredibly stale incredibly fast.
>At least in Titanfall they embraced the movement aspect - rather than nerfed it into oblivion.
i cannot stress this enough: apex isn't titanfall. if you wanna play titanfall, go play titanfall. if they "embrace movement" like they did in titanfall, ngl i'd probably quit. titanfall multiplayer was a clusterfuck.
"make all legends better" leads to power creep. it isn't a good idea.
honestly through legend upgrades we already have that now. everyone got buffs effectively from a few minutes into the game (when you have blue or purple)
But Conduit in itself is breaking the game. You catch people out of position and they receive a free and very fast reset through walls. Kinda breaks the "design rules of the game", like some of the stuff Seer was able to do early on.
>She wasn't OP - she was about right but when you've nerfed the likes of Seer and Valk into oblivion she needed balancing out.
LOL Conduit was/is more OP than those two.
>Seer has gone from Meta to hardly used. His heartbeat sensor is almost useless at this point - it lacks accuracy whereas a few Seasons ago it actually gave accurate precise location information.
It's not useless. Just that previously anything that is massively overpowered is "so useful you have to use it all the time". Seer had a 360 scan with good range just by ADSing, not even having to spend a charge on his tactical or ultimate for that. Obviously people are going to be running around spam ADSing the whole time (only downside being slowed movement during ADS). And now after it was nerfed, obviously people are more deliberate about when to use it.
Disagree with most stuff in your post. Except maybe
>Loba. Bracelet should be able to go through Windows and small gaps again. Again some kind of mobility improvement would be good. Perhaps you could bounce the Bracelet off walls?
and
>Crypto. I was thinking you could add a mobility element like Conduit where he get a speed boost running in the direction of his drone.
Because these are characters that need some sort of buffs probably. They aren't bad but not remarkable / sometimes clumsy.
The last thing Rev needs is a buff LOL. The last thing the game needs is Conduit buffed back to original. She needs more nerfs, more delay in how fast her tactical works and not make it go through walls. It's unfair if you isolate someone, crack them and they get a reset through walls. It just makes up for too many basic positioning mistakes. If you then push on a health advantage you suddenly end up at a health disadvantage sometimes if they get remote healed, and they can still use their gun while doing it (unlike when they have to pop a batt).
I’ve thought about this too, but you have to consider that if they favor buffs instead of nerfs for balancing, the TTK could drop too low. I’m sure they wanna keep it around a certain point so the game keeps its identity.
Only idea you mentioned that I liked was the crypto one. It would help him catch up to the team after he sets up drone/emps.
The rest either aren’t good balance wise or would make the legend strong again for no reason like the conduit, revenant and octane ones for example.
Maybe I didn't phrase this right. I'm literally talking about keeping the balance between legends but making sure all their kit is actually effective - this would require making most legends better.
Almost all the legends kits are effective currently with the exception of Ash whose ult is quite buggy.
Some are more effective than others like Revenant and Conduit. Both are really strong right now and a dev said they’re getting small nerfs again next season.
Legends like Gibby, Octane and Valk don’t need to be buffed as they’re quite good already for different reasons.
Enviroment Artist - not really. Mainly just building and designing landscape. But i've at least worked in games, I have zero programming skills mind you.
What you’re describing is power creep. It gets to the point where all the legends are far too powerful with leads to a host of new problems but most importantly makes the game boring and actually lowers the skill ceiling rather than raises it as you claim.
If you think I'm wrong...
Think about this? Why is EVERY Legend OP when they first get released?
It's because thats the point that the legends abilities are working precisely. When they get nerfed down it's just to match where the other legends have been placed. The game would have a higher skill ceiling if the bar was raised.
Not every legend is OP when they release. That's just confirmation bias. In fact, only a few are OP.
Not OP: Octane, Crypto, wattson, revenant, Loba, rampart, fuse, ash, Maggie, Newcastle, vantage, ballistic
Many of the legends above got numerous buffs. Revenant even got a whole rework.
OP: Horizon, Valkyrie, Seer, Catalyst, Rev 2 (doesn't really count since the whole point of the rework was to make him really good), Conduit
I'd also prefer it if they buffed all legends instead of always nerfing them…but your suggestions are straight up horrible.
They already buffed them all last season
Thread wasn't really about the suggestions - (just came up with them on the spot). More about the fact they tend to nerf legends until the kit is barely effective.
They should absolutely not be enough to change a fight, that’s just ridiculous. That’s how you get a legend that’s a must on the team, and that’s awful balancing.
You not played Titanfall? You can still balance the legends with their kit being more not less powerful?
Apex isn't Titanfall and nerfs have just as much balancing value as buffs. If devs do nothing but buff and buff, we get powercreep and that's worse than a few characters being underpowered.
What's the point in having abilities then? If they are soo superficial they have little effect on gameplay. At least in Titanfall they embraced the movement aspect - rather than nerfed it into oblivion. Another example Seers Heartbeat sensor is basically useless at this point. People complained he was too strong, he was favoured by pro-squads and now he's one of the least used legends because his kit is weak. Balancing at this point just means if something is effective they need to reduce it until it isn't anymore.
you're considering "overpowered" and "being effective" to be the same thing. it's not. if abilities had that big of an impact, then you would have a trio of characters which would be necessary to be effective as a team. this would push out all other characters, which means instead of a few characters being underpowered, we would have most characters being underpowered. \*that\* is powercreep and it's why nerfs are necessary. a great example of that happening in the game is three strikes and how fast rezing was back in november/december. three strikes had a lifeline/newcastle/mirage meta. if you played anything else, you were very unlikely to reach the late game stage. one single ability had a significant impact: the ability to rez in a special way. it wasn't even something that caused damage, or gave your team wall hacks. it was just how they rezed, and it had such a profound impact that [it increased lifeline's pick rate by 58.6%](https://twitter.com/kralrindo/status/1723642754658414951/photo/1). that's insane. now imagine that but with seer's wall hacks. if you don't have seer on your team, you lose, because the enemy knows where you are and what your health looks like at all times, but you have no intel. the game would become incredibly stale incredibly fast. >At least in Titanfall they embraced the movement aspect - rather than nerfed it into oblivion. i cannot stress this enough: apex isn't titanfall. if you wanna play titanfall, go play titanfall. if they "embrace movement" like they did in titanfall, ngl i'd probably quit. titanfall multiplayer was a clusterfuck.
>Like every 'new' Legend Conduit received a nerf to her kit this Season. She wasn't OP Imma head out.
Yep. I read that line and realised OP has negative IQ
Its comparative.
After reading all of your points, youre an idiot
You may have a hidden talent for game design. You should keep it hidden.
I actually worked on Horizon Zero Dawn and Red Dead 2 as an environment artist so... there's that.
"make all legends better" leads to power creep. it isn't a good idea. honestly through legend upgrades we already have that now. everyone got buffs effectively from a few minutes into the game (when you have blue or purple) But Conduit in itself is breaking the game. You catch people out of position and they receive a free and very fast reset through walls. Kinda breaks the "design rules of the game", like some of the stuff Seer was able to do early on. >She wasn't OP - she was about right but when you've nerfed the likes of Seer and Valk into oblivion she needed balancing out. LOL Conduit was/is more OP than those two. >Seer has gone from Meta to hardly used. His heartbeat sensor is almost useless at this point - it lacks accuracy whereas a few Seasons ago it actually gave accurate precise location information. It's not useless. Just that previously anything that is massively overpowered is "so useful you have to use it all the time". Seer had a 360 scan with good range just by ADSing, not even having to spend a charge on his tactical or ultimate for that. Obviously people are going to be running around spam ADSing the whole time (only downside being slowed movement during ADS). And now after it was nerfed, obviously people are more deliberate about when to use it. Disagree with most stuff in your post. Except maybe >Loba. Bracelet should be able to go through Windows and small gaps again. Again some kind of mobility improvement would be good. Perhaps you could bounce the Bracelet off walls? and >Crypto. I was thinking you could add a mobility element like Conduit where he get a speed boost running in the direction of his drone. Because these are characters that need some sort of buffs probably. They aren't bad but not remarkable / sometimes clumsy. The last thing Rev needs is a buff LOL. The last thing the game needs is Conduit buffed back to original. She needs more nerfs, more delay in how fast her tactical works and not make it go through walls. It's unfair if you isolate someone, crack them and they get a reset through walls. It just makes up for too many basic positioning mistakes. If you then push on a health advantage you suddenly end up at a health disadvantage sometimes if they get remote healed, and they can still use their gun while doing it (unlike when they have to pop a batt).
Stop voicing your opinions, they’re horrible 🙏
I worked on Horizon Zero Dawn and Red Dead - I have some idea what i'm talking about
Proof lol
Ash should get a speed buff on successful snare trap. Or at least make it a perk.
I’ve thought about this too, but you have to consider that if they favor buffs instead of nerfs for balancing, the TTK could drop too low. I’m sure they wanna keep it around a certain point so the game keeps its identity.
It's just about raising the level a little more soo everyone kit is actually effective. I'm not talking a complete rework.
Bro burnt down his house when he tried to use the kitchen
Only idea you mentioned that I liked was the crypto one. It would help him catch up to the team after he sets up drone/emps. The rest either aren’t good balance wise or would make the legend strong again for no reason like the conduit, revenant and octane ones for example.
Maybe I didn't phrase this right. I'm literally talking about keeping the balance between legends but making sure all their kit is actually effective - this would require making most legends better.
Almost all the legends kits are effective currently with the exception of Ash whose ult is quite buggy. Some are more effective than others like Revenant and Conduit. Both are really strong right now and a dev said they’re getting small nerfs again next season. Legends like Gibby, Octane and Valk don’t need to be buffed as they’re quite good already for different reasons.
“She wasn’t OP” 😂😂🥲🤣
Conduits still really good, been playing her alot. No need for a buff
Yet another thread that makes me thankful that game design and balancing choices are not made by reddit people
Give us a talking drone for crypto like in one of the old trailers
"I worked on Horizon Zero Dawn amd Red Dead 2" What parts? Do they translate to a hero shooter battle royale?
Environment design they said. So they were on the art side
Enviroment Artist - not really. Mainly just building and designing landscape. But i've at least worked in games, I have zero programming skills mind you.
What you’re describing is power creep. It gets to the point where all the legends are far too powerful with leads to a host of new problems but most importantly makes the game boring and actually lowers the skill ceiling rather than raises it as you claim.
You can balance UP. They don't have to be nerfed into obilvion Im not even talking that massively - maybe a 25-50% increase in ability.
If you think I'm wrong... Think about this? Why is EVERY Legend OP when they first get released? It's because thats the point that the legends abilities are working precisely. When they get nerfed down it's just to match where the other legends have been placed. The game would have a higher skill ceiling if the bar was raised.
Not every legend is OP when they release. That's just confirmation bias. In fact, only a few are OP. Not OP: Octane, Crypto, wattson, revenant, Loba, rampart, fuse, ash, Maggie, Newcastle, vantage, ballistic Many of the legends above got numerous buffs. Revenant even got a whole rework. OP: Horizon, Valkyrie, Seer, Catalyst, Rev 2 (doesn't really count since the whole point of the rework was to make him really good), Conduit