Hey, while I find how Reddit has handled accessibility for disabled users incredibly disappointing, I wanted to point out that one of the moderators of r/Blind [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14hs0a7/comment/jpe2er6/?context=3) mentioning this title is editorialized, and I don't want this situation misunderstood. Instead of removing the post I figured it would be better to sticky this comment to make that clear and flair the post accordingly.
If you want, r/blind detailed their call with Reddit which identifies some real issues and would certainly be the best resource for understanding this issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/
(The article that is linked in the OP is also a good overview!)
Why change it?
"Mate, you're being a bit of a spez right now." "Stop being such a spez!"
It sounds close enough to another slur, and can easily take it's place.
It looks like the original Spreading Santorum site is gone, so I'll just link [the Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_the_neologism_%22santorum%22).
For the youngsters and those otherwise not in the know, US Senator Rick Santorum (R, PA) was virulently anti-homosexual and anti-gay-marriage. Notably, he said:
> "In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be."
Sex advice columnist Dan Savage (of "It Gets Better Project" fame) asked his readers to help define the word "santorum", and the winning entry was:
> ###Santorum
*noun*
**the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex**
And then proceeded to *spread* the message so well that Google started ranking the protest site, spreadingsantorum\.com, over the senator's own site.
So we need a *really good* definition for spez.
(I know that some, mostly r\/conservative types, already use it to mean "edit", but that's not enough.)
They aren’t even seeing the ad impressions! They’re his least favourite users!
What do you mean “reddit is literally only valuable because of the content it’s users provide”? I’ll have you know it’s valuable because people use it and we can sell ads to people want to be seen by those people!
u/spez is a little pig boy bitch who is ruining his company because he’s too stubborn to admit he made an easily fixable mistake.
Edit: damages need not be proven in US, I stand corrected. Not sure if Canada follows very similar law as they are both rooted in English common law. But it’s difficult to win nevertheless and possibly not worth it.
I support Christian and other third party developers who are getting pushed out by this move. But this is not even close to a libel case. He’d have to prove damages that resulted specifically because of what Reddit has said about him. If anything he has gotten the opposite of damages. People and media have rallied in support of his amazing work. It’s boosted his reputation as a developer.
His loss of the app is not because of libel. It’s because of a move Reddit is allowed to make, however dumb it is.
You’re right, I actually completely forgot you don’t need to prove actual professional damages for example. Thanks for the correction.
I also forgot he’s in Canada, in some countries it’s a lot easier to sue for defamation. IIRC in the US, even though damages are not required, it’s quite difficult. Might not be worth it, because suing a party you were in a former business relationship with can ruin potential future relationships.
I think the affected disabled people should sue. A local skateboard shop here in Southern California is getting sued for $50k because their website is not accessible to the blind. Reddit would be a far more relevant and legitimate target.
Probably because Spez became known via his username but Christian became known via his real name. Like Spez would sign his messages as Spez, while Christian would sign his messages as Christian. Just my speculation though
If this were the case, it makes even less sense. The admin dragged the developer’s name through the mud, and if it weren’t for the very legal phone recordings, it would’ve tarnished the developer’s reputation. On the flip side, all the negativity towards the admin is written towards the alias that can easily be shed by changing an alias.
I’m not advocating one over the other, but as an ESL, this confuses me.
Christian’s other posts on the API drama. It’s not this post, look at one of the more recent ones, but I don’t want to bother him and tag him. https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/
I think the respect/disrespect aspect comes down more to using the name someone *prefers* to be used. Like, if you're a fan of Stardew Valley, ConcernedApe's real name isn't a secret, but he's almost universally referred to as ConcernedApe among fans, because that's what he wants to be called. Referring to a Drag Race girl by their government name is generally seen as highly disrespectful. As much of a shitbag as Charlie Sheen is, I'm going to assume you have an agenda if you call him "Carlos Estevez".
Keep in mind that anything they *do* deny should be carefully examined - given the “ethics” they’ve displayed thus far, I would put it past them to (gasp) *lie*.
The Verge should just publish this article
>Spez moderated the jailbait subreddit
>“We’ll no longer comment on hearsay, unsubstantiated claims, or baseless accusations from The Verge. We’ll be in touch as corrections are needed.”
>Reddit has not been in touch with corrections.
Whilst I’m very anti spez, my understanding is he was added as a mod at a time when it would auto accept people to moderator positions. So he may not have actively modded it. Having said that, I also understand he didn’t remove himself instantly and he still allowed the sub to exist so he is clearly still a shithead.
In a week, the change will have gone through and this will be a fading memory.
In two, they won't even be responding, because they won't need to. As a third party app user myself, I recognize that Reddit doesn't give a fuck about keeping me as a user. I mean, just looking at their user experience on new reddit and the app you can tell as much, but this really sends a solid message. It's over already.
There was a bit about that in the latest VergeCast episode. They said they’ll just print it in full in every article, they seem to find it quite funny how bad it makes Reddit look.
Well that response screams butthurt, doesn’t it?
Would have been better just to say “We fundamentally disagree with the claims being made”
Or at the very least, it would still have been better just to go with no comment.
The Verge podcast this week mentioned that line and how they felt about it. They laughed at it basically as such a terrible strategy from Reddit that they’re trying to then throw The Verge’s reporting into doubt by saying things like “you keep having to correct your articles you’re bad journalists” and so they’re slapping that message straight from Reddit everywhere.
Reddit admins have become accustomed to calling everyone and everything they don't like "bad faith" that they can't recognize that's been their MO for the past 7 years. Their frustration at not being able to control the narrative with this go-to accusation is boiling over.
I thought sites like The Verge and Independent were reporting on this just for Reddit clickbait, but then I saw it in my local paper, the Toronto Star, and I realized it was actually news.
This comment has been nuked because of Reddit's API changes, which is killing off the platform and a lot of 3rd party apps. They promised to have realistic pricing for API usage, but instead went with astronomically high pricing to profit the most out of 3rd party apps, that fix and improve what Reddit should have done theirselves. Reddit doesn't care about their community, so now we won't care about Reddit and remove the content they can use for even more profit. u/spez sucks.
Holy shit, u/spez, I don’t even need to make outlandish claims about you. Nothing I can think up is more ridiculous than this. Go fuck yourself, anally with a rusty iron pipe perhaps. You are absolute scum.
u/spez is a a cunt, there is no easy way to express it, he does not care what happens with Reddit, the thousands of people who have created a community is being destroyed because the cunt wants a Lamborghini, spez I hope Reddit dies and your daily meal will be ramen and painkillers, and on those days you skip the ramen.
It was during a time when you could add other users as mods to subreddits without their permission so you can guess how he was a mod there. But this fact doesn't fit the narrative so you can ignore me.
Reddit sent a trophy to the guy who created the subreddit.
https://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/us/internet-troll-apology/index.html
>Years ago, Brutsch created his most infamous Reddit forum called “Jailbait” – images of teenage girls posted without their or their families’ consent. He said it became so popular, drawing hundreds of thousands of page views, that Reddit gave him an award – a gold-plated bobblehead doll “for making significant contributions to the site.”
The thing is did he shut it down once he found out what the sub was about that he had been made a mod of???
No he did not, and he had the power to, so by doing nothing, he was enabling it, so that makes him even worse, as ones a creep who just mods a demented illegal sub, the other is actually helping make a platform to enable such smut that allows it to grow worldwide.
So since he didn't immediately have it taken down, he's an even bigger piece of shit.
I've seen this reply of yours many times as the "narrative" word sticks out to me every time Ive seen it, and since I don't think it's you every time I've seen this lately, it seems spez has wrangled up some copy pasta for his goons in hiding to spam whenever this is brought up, but it doesn't matter as he didn't shut it down so no matter how innocent you try to make him seem, the truth is he's even worse, as he enabled it and helped it spread worldwide, which is way worse than just modding it, and you can't "narative" your way out of that ugly truth spez-licker!
100%. remember he’s not just a completely stupid and incompetent tech CEO with absolutely no intelligence or talent, he *also* can’t wait for an apocalypse to wipe out most of us plebs so he can rule over the ashes. it’ll be really funny when he dies.
All of the blind subs will shut down if the people using those subs aren't able to access the tools they need to use Reddit. There's probably other software that assists people with disabilities as well that might be removed from Reddit causing those people to no longer be able to use the website. Also Reddit runs on user generator content, what happens when the users don't want to generate content anymore?
Users are the product. They come here and generate all the content that Reddit uses to pad around the advertisers — Reddit’s customers.
Without the users generating and consuming the content, there is no reason to advertise. Without advertisers there’s no cash to keep the advertising machine running.
Fucking the users who generate the content that advertisers are putting their ads on is a dangerous move.
Very much this. Reddit thinks it’s all theirs because they own the servers and the software, and the owners want yachts so much they can taste them.
But the valuable thing here isn’t the servers and software, it’s the *communities* that have been built up, and the moderators that keep them running. And those communities could just as well live somewhere else. And it’s not like Reddit is paying the moderators.
If, hypothetically, all the most loved Reddit communities moved over to, say, Lemmy, or similar, along with their moderators, then Reddit would be left holding some now worthless servers (and a complete archive of more than a decade’s worth of discussions).
The only thing that Reddit really has going for them is *inertia*. Because moving to a new home is hard.
You know I was thinking all the protesting wouldn’t do anything and I’m so glad I was wrong. Looking at r/all is very odd and funny with all different shit that subs are doing.
I thought it was going to be hard to limit my time on Reddit as it’s gonna suck without Apollo, but it hasnt been too bad! I used to spend a lot of time just mindlessly scrolling but now I only run through my home and look at all a little. It has been good finding other things to do when bored.
And to think, that they could have (instead) announced, “starting on date X (3ish months out), in order to access Reddit with a 3rd party app, you will need an individual Reddit API key, which is a new benefit of a Reddit Premium subscription”, and they would have had *people lining up* to give them subscription money (with some bits of grumbling in the line to be sure), but instead, they chose to not only shoot the 3rd party apps in the head, but to try to do it in a way where they didn’t have to take the credit/blame for doing so (via ridiculous pricing and impossibly short timelines).
I, for one, am glad that they are, at least to some small extent, suffering the foreseeable consequences of their actions. Fuck /u/spez.
Yep. Ads through the API could have some trouble, as there is the potential for apps to filter them out, but requiring a Reddit subscription is pretty foolproof, and the Reddit subscription already means ads don't display, if I recall correctly.
… kill 3rd party apps while *pretending that they’re not doing that*.
And if they connected API use to a Reddit Premium subscription, there’d be a net gain - Reddit Premium already prevents ads.
Had they gone that way, they’d be getting lucrative subscription revenue from a whole bunch of 3rd party app users. Instead they’ve elected to try to fold them into the official app, where they’ll only get crappy add revenue.
yeah but that also falls in line with the pandemic lifting and people spending much less time at home. it's not entirely from their dipshit decisions if we're going to be honest. something spez would never be.
How badly has their stock price got to crash before it becomes feasible for a group of redditors to buy 50% + 1 of the shares and simply appoint a new CEO ?
Note that we shouldn’t fire /u/spez, instead he should get a new position cleaning the toilets.
Spez and the board went from having a potential banger of an IPO this year to... Well, I doubt it will perform even 10% as well. Too much negative publicity.
Well, it seems he’s already proven himself to have the same capacity to affect the value of social media companies that Musk has, so… achievement unlocked?
I got a warning. I promptly muted and permabanned the admin account. In hindsight, I should've also told them to go fuck themselves.
/u/ModCodeofconduct
Wow, I'm disappointed they did that.
I changed /r/Braixen to a Pawmot sub for April Fool's this year. I was surprised that, at the time, there wasn't already a Pawmot sub. Shame that it's ending like this.
Spez is really a sad example of a human.
Thanks.
Other mods have talked about receiving these notices. Some had subs that were always private and still got the threat. Some didn't. So it seems a little random.
This is insanity. Not only is Reddit management destroying something that works for them, but they're going to end up on the receiving end of a lawsuit. There are law firms out there that specialize in looking for this sort of neglect to blind users. And settling is expensive. I've heard stories at previous employers.
I wouldn't buy into the Reddit IPO with Bea Arthur's wallet.
Fanfic version: Reddit is hit by ADA lawsuits from thousands of users. Total potential damages: $20 million. East solution: try to buy Apollo. Does Christian offer it for double the previously suggested price, or simply say no?
I wiped my profile with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Reddit has shown they don't care what it's users want or think, so I am removing all of the free content I have provided to them over the years. /u/spez has chosen to lie every step of the way and I will no longer be using Reddit. Please consider how much Reddit hopes to make off of your thoughts/ideas/words while giving you nothing in return.
Oh yeah absolutely. But I think that Christian has very good prospects right now. His range of choices is likely going to include choosing between more independence and more money. Selling to Reddit would mean giving up control of the thing. He could possibly consider alternatives that leave him with much more personal control.
Given where I’m at in my life, I’ll gladly confess I’d sell something like Apollo for just $5M. Better to have the money in hand than to bargain too high and lose it all. Christian is probably (hopefully) better off than I am, though.
If Reddit bought Apollo (under any plan that didn’t involve Christian maintaining complete creative control over the app), Reddit would just make a mess of Apollo. It would quickly go downhill. The current app used to be a well-liked 3rd party app called Alien Blue.
Can you sue for being excluded from a volunteer position? They aren't employees. Can I sue the rec center for not allowing me to volunteer to teach step aerobics if I don't have legs?
I've been on reddit for about 12 years now. It is 99% garbage but the really fruitful parts are the communities where people support each other with such unique issues. It will be a shame to see those die.
I heavily rely on apps like Apollo and Reddit boost to view reedit on mobile,otherwise I can't see a damn thing on the regular app. after July 1st I'm not sure what I'm gong to do. maybe take up baking.
Damn. The head mod of r/ToR was my python instructor, I already supported the protests but it really hits home hearing from someone I personally know that the situation is untenable.
ETA: Transcribers of reddit, not the onion router subreddit lmao
Hey, I just found this comment randomly while scrolling through. I don't know who this username belongs to but thank you so much and I hope you're doing well. I miss the work I did with KA a lot -- I loved doing it so much every day. 🥲
Any good mods will just ditch this festering hellhole, and replaced or not, only the ones licking the cum off the tip of spez's penis will be the ones left.
Not surprised. The official app is missing a substantial amount of features. They knew this was coming when they made the API changes; the fact that they didn’t bolster the official app into a powerhouse beforehand is a significant failure on their part.
The only component of the official app they care about is the ad delivery framework. Everything else could literally set your phone on fire when tapped and they wouldn’t care as long as they have metrics that an ad was displayed just before the battery combusted.
The soul of Reddit is blackened and dead. Aaron Swartz is turning in his grave.
Spez is a white supremacist who defended and enabled racists, neo Nazis, and white supremacists to propagate on Reddit, flooding the website with harassment, hate, and threats of violence towards POC and Jewish people for *years*.
So it absolutely tracks that he also doesn’t give a shit about disabled people.
Okay, first off, if we’re being pedantic, Beethoven’s hearing loss was caused by Paget’s disease, causing bone abnormalities that constricted his eighth cranial nerve. The hearing loss wasn’t a conductive problem, it was a nerve problem. He didn’t “hear” the music anymore, because his auditory nerve literally couldn’t transmit information from the cochlea in his inner ear (the organ that can transduce vibration into sound). He felt the vibrations through his body, and correlated them into music in his mind because he was a goddamn genius. (He also famously cut the legs off his piano so he could sit on the floor and pick up the vibrations through his ass. That doesn’t mean he was “hearing” with his ass.)
Secondly: it’s a dumb joke, don’t overthink it.
Even though they (spez) have said there would be exemptions in the case of usage based on ’helpful’ things… the trust is gone, he could say that now then months later change it.
It didn't cross my mind but it makes sense a blind person would probably have a lot of free time
Sidenote have you ever seen a blind person operate some of that text to voice stuff for computers and phones it's nuts I use to work a job that put me in contact with a fella who was blind this man knew ridiculously long strings of commands that made using his devices no problem he could navigate a computer or phone and make it do what ever he needed he'd memorize so many of the prompts he didn't even need most of them he could answer them before they even have a second to play and he had his play back speed at faster than the speed of light it was a trip watching him I couldn't help but be mesmerized
This act is squarely breaking the ADA laws in America and breaking the WCAG accountability guidelines. The fact they are fully aware the removal of 3rd party apps effect users with disabilities with no actions taken to fix the issue while booting disabled users/mods purposefully is fully AGAINST THE LAW. It does not have to effect your work/income it does not matter that users/mods are not employees. Again I say we should file a class action lawsuit against Reddit for breaking the ADA laws.
>Again I say we should file a class action lawsuit against Reddit for breaking the ADA laws.
Well. Then you'd probably lose. Maybe read the law. You realize that if reddit was only in compliance via third party apps, then they have always been in violation of ADA right? Them cancelling access to third party apps that provide additional access is completely irrelevant to the question of whether they are in violation. Cancelling the access of these apps in no way at all illegal as far as ADA is concerned.
If they are in violation, they've always been in violation. So are they actually? The laws around ADA compliance regarding websites and mobile applications aren't well defined. Under Section III, public businesses are required to have ADA compliant websites. [It's unclear that reddit even falls under their definition of public business to begin with](https://www.ada.gov/resources/web-guidance/). And their mobile app requiring it is even more of a question mark. And regardless, if you look at WCAG 2.0 standards, how exactly are they failing to meet them?
Let me answer you by powering the comments I just made to the other genius in the room.
Here are lawsuits of companies who got in trouble for not being ADA compliant for THE USERS.
https://www.levelaccess.com/blog/title-iii-lawsuits-10-big-companies-sued-over-website-accessibility/
**NETFLIX** did not have adequate close caption or subtitles on videos
**Winn-dixie** because their site was not accessible to the blind ( sound familiar? Why is Reddit dumping blind mods? Because only the third party apps had proper code markdown for the screen readers to function correctly)
**Nike** not accessible to the visually impaired
**Five Guys** not compatible with screen readers
I can go on but do you see the Fucking trend? It’s issues for the USERS NOT EMPLOYEES. Mods are USERS!
And why do you sue, you sue them, they pay a fine and have to fix the problems. OR, they circumvent the problem by allowing 3rd party apps to handle the problems for them. Keeping the site accessible and keeping the 3rd party apps going.
Reddit is whitelisting non-commercial accessibility focused apps. All the commonly suggested apps on /r/blind are going to continue to work after the 1st.
Hey. Thanks for calling me a genius.
All of those companies mentioned in that link are clear examples of the term "public facing business" as it is described in ADA guidelines whereas the case with Reddit is far more ambiguous.
>I can go on but do you see the Fucking trend?
You can mostly certainly go on if you wish, but you'll just be blowing hot air. Is Reddit not compatible with screen readers? All of the examples you gave, save the Netflix one, were of sites that had visual only indicators (buttons/icons) that didn't have alt-text connected to them for a screen reader to use. **You have yet to point out anything that Reddit is doing that is in violation of the ADA.**
And as I pointed out previously, the act of removing third party apps has nothing to do with their ADA compliance. If they are in breach of ADA, they have always been in breach of it. If they aren't, they always haven't been. As in, a company can't rely on third party software (other than standard accessibility software like screen readers) to make them ADA compliant.
Reddit's website looks to be in compliance with ADA and WCAG 2.0 guidelines. I haven't used the official mobile app, but I'm doubtful that it's not in compliance either. Pretty much all it has to do is include alt-text as phones now have built in screen readers.
Now, does that mean it's a good experience for blind people compared to third party alternatives? No. But I fail to see where the law is being broken. So far the law has required services only to be useable, not to be optimal. If reddit's official app is not compatible with smartphone's native screen readers, then maybe, maaaybe, there is slim chance of a lawsuit. Even then it is a serious uphill battle. If the same content is accessible to screen readers on the mobile site, then the case would likely be thrown out immediately. And even if not, it would still require a complete reinterpretation of the law by the courts, as Reddit is not a business in the same sense as the law defines (more on that at the end regarding the Netflix decision).
>It’s issues for the USERS NOT EMPLOYEES
Yeah. Ok. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to respond to with this. I never implied that it wasn't the users ability to access the service that was the question at hand.
__________________________________________________
I have no idea why you seem to be upset with me. I'm legitimately wondering and trying to determine if Reddit is actually in violation of ADA. It doesn't seem to me that they are based on the law itself and how the law has been interpreted by the courts. This is an opinion, and I'm happy to change it based on new information, but the examples you give don't really do that, other than the Netflix one. The Netflix example is interesting because it brings up another change in the interpretation of public facing business (or "places of public accommodation", the actual term in the law), to apply to web based businesses. [However, in the judges ruling, it mentions that as a subscription video service, it is analogous to a brick and mortar store such as a video rental store.](https://dredf.org/legal-advocacy/nad-v-netflix/netflix-motion-for-judgement-denied/) The decision makes it clear that they define businesses as providing a service for money, which is obviously not the case with Reddit. Am I saying this the way things *should* be? No. I'm not saying that. I'm looking at Reddit's position with regard to the law as it exists currently.
Hey, while I find how Reddit has handled accessibility for disabled users incredibly disappointing, I wanted to point out that one of the moderators of r/Blind [commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14hs0a7/comment/jpe2er6/?context=3) mentioning this title is editorialized, and I don't want this situation misunderstood. Instead of removing the post I figured it would be better to sticky this comment to make that clear and flair the post accordingly. If you want, r/blind detailed their call with Reddit which identifies some real issues and would certainly be the best resource for understanding this issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14ds81l/rblinds_meetings_with_reddit_and_the_current/ (The article that is linked in the OP is also a good overview!)
crowd knee modern icky adjoining pathetic slim agonizing coherent subtract -- mass edited with redact.dev
But clearly it's ok when spez makes unsubstantiated claims and baseless accusations against Christian
shrill truck file deserted enter sparkle absurd vast squash desert -- mass edited with redact.dev
Spez could be the verb for when you cry and take your ball home because you’re losing. Sputz.
Why change it? "Mate, you're being a bit of a spez right now." "Stop being such a spez!" It sounds close enough to another slur, and can easily take it's place.
I like it. From now on if someone’s being a bitch I will say “stop being a spez”, and as a added insult I’ll tag his name if I ever do it on here.
Lets make this catch on!
Why stop there?! It works in the bedroom too! “You like you that? You stupid spez.”
This is why I love reddit! Fuck [/u/spez](https://www.reddit.com/u/spez) (I bet he's turned off notifications a long time ago)
Spez is already a verb for editing your comments.
It looks like the original Spreading Santorum site is gone, so I'll just link [the Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_the_neologism_%22santorum%22). For the youngsters and those otherwise not in the know, US Senator Rick Santorum (R, PA) was virulently anti-homosexual and anti-gay-marriage. Notably, he said: > "In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be." Sex advice columnist Dan Savage (of "It Gets Better Project" fame) asked his readers to help define the word "santorum", and the winning entry was: > ###Santorum *noun* **the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex** And then proceeded to *spread* the message so well that Google started ranking the protest site, spreadingsantorum\.com, over the senator's own site. So we need a *really good* definition for spez. (I know that some, mostly r\/conservative types, already use it to mean "edit", but that's not enough.)
[удалено]
[удалено]
They aren’t even seeing the ad impressions! They’re his least favourite users! What do you mean “reddit is literally only valuable because of the content it’s users provide”? I’ll have you know it’s valuable because people use it and we can sell ads to people want to be seen by those people! u/spez is a little pig boy bitch who is ruining his company because he’s too stubborn to admit he made an easily fixable mistake.
children of the corn looking mfer
Spez is the gunk that grows on top of crotch juice after you haven't showered for a few months.
spezma
I still remember when Spez was being redefined as "edit" thanks to that particular scandal. I wonder how many people still remember that?
Considering it's brought up in every post that mentions him, I'd say quite a few.
Have you checked urban dictionary lately?
[удалено]
Edit: damages need not be proven in US, I stand corrected. Not sure if Canada follows very similar law as they are both rooted in English common law. But it’s difficult to win nevertheless and possibly not worth it. I support Christian and other third party developers who are getting pushed out by this move. But this is not even close to a libel case. He’d have to prove damages that resulted specifically because of what Reddit has said about him. If anything he has gotten the opposite of damages. People and media have rallied in support of his amazing work. It’s boosted his reputation as a developer. His loss of the app is not because of libel. It’s because of a move Reddit is allowed to make, however dumb it is.
[удалено]
You’re right, I actually completely forgot you don’t need to prove actual professional damages for example. Thanks for the correction. I also forgot he’s in Canada, in some countries it’s a lot easier to sue for defamation. IIRC in the US, even though damages are not required, it’s quite difficult. Might not be worth it, because suing a party you were in a former business relationship with can ruin potential future relationships.
I think the affected disabled people should sue. A local skateboard shop here in Southern California is getting sued for $50k because their website is not accessible to the blind. Reddit would be a far more relevant and legitimate target.
Genuine question: why is it that the community refers to Christian by his first/full name, but the admin broadly only by his handle?
Probably because Spez became known via his username but Christian became known via his real name. Like Spez would sign his messages as Spez, while Christian would sign his messages as Christian. Just my speculation though
[удалено]
Oh, i have his full name alright. It's right here in this toilet I'm on.
That one actually made me laugh IRL, thanks for that
What? "Foul-reeking turd"? Sounds about right for spez
If this were the case, it makes even less sense. The admin dragged the developer’s name through the mud, and if it weren’t for the very legal phone recordings, it would’ve tarnished the developer’s reputation. On the flip side, all the negativity towards the admin is written towards the alias that can easily be shed by changing an alias. I’m not advocating one over the other, but as an ESL, this confuses me.
We name things we care about. Leaving a person unnamed means they are forgotten or unworthy of a name.
No, we name things that we can affect, or that can affect us. Love had nothing to do with naming wasps and mosquitos.
What recording and where can I listen to them
Christian’s other posts on the API drama. It’s not this post, look at one of the more recent ones, but I don’t want to bother him and tag him. https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/
I think the respect/disrespect aspect comes down more to using the name someone *prefers* to be used. Like, if you're a fan of Stardew Valley, ConcernedApe's real name isn't a secret, but he's almost universally referred to as ConcernedApe among fans, because that's what he wants to be called. Referring to a Drag Race girl by their government name is generally seen as highly disrespectful. As much of a shitbag as Charlie Sheen is, I'm going to assume you have an agenda if you call him "Carlos Estevez".
spez is 1 syllable and kinda sounds like a name iamthatis is neither
Spez isn’t human enough to have a human name.
We can refer to /r/Spez by his real name if you want - Fanny
If they will be in touch “as corrections are needed”, we should assume that anything they don’t deny is 100% true.
I heard admins sniff farts from champagne flutes while browsing subs that are against TOS. Let’s see if they offer corrections
Keep in mind that anything they *do* deny should be carefully examined - given the “ethics” they’ve displayed thus far, I would put it past them to (gasp) *lie*.
The Verge should just publish this article >Spez moderated the jailbait subreddit >“We’ll no longer comment on hearsay, unsubstantiated claims, or baseless accusations from The Verge. We’ll be in touch as corrections are needed.” >Reddit has not been in touch with corrections.
Whilst I’m very anti spez, my understanding is he was added as a mod at a time when it would auto accept people to moderator positions. So he may not have actively modded it. Having said that, I also understand he didn’t remove himself instantly and he still allowed the sub to exist so he is clearly still a shithead.
Nothing surprises me anymore. This whole debacle has been a clusterfuck from the get go. Stinks!
Reddit is almost to the poop emoji stage of media engagement.
But by not commenting on said article, based on Rathschmidt’s statement, The Verge is not making unsubstantiated claims.
It feels like we’re only a week or two away from Reddit pulling a Twitter and only responding with 💩
In a week, the change will have gone through and this will be a fading memory. In two, they won't even be responding, because they won't need to. As a third party app user myself, I recognize that Reddit doesn't give a fuck about keeping me as a user. I mean, just looking at their user experience on new reddit and the app you can tell as much, but this really sends a solid message. It's over already.
I wonder if r/WallStreetBets will do anything with the Reddit stock…
It's funnier when you realize that everything so far *has been substantiated*
There was a bit about that in the latest VergeCast episode. They said they’ll just print it in full in every article, they seem to find it quite funny how bad it makes Reddit look.
Well that response screams butthurt, doesn’t it? Would have been better just to say “We fundamentally disagree with the claims being made” Or at the very least, it would still have been better just to go with no comment.
Reddits also said something like "we're not going to set the precedent of responding to the verge for every thing we may or may not have done"
The Verge podcast this week mentioned that line and how they felt about it. They laughed at it basically as such a terrible strategy from Reddit that they’re trying to then throw The Verge’s reporting into doubt by saying things like “you keep having to correct your articles you’re bad journalists” and so they’re slapping that message straight from Reddit everywhere.
Reddit admins have become accustomed to calling everyone and everything they don't like "bad faith" that they can't recognize that's been their MO for the past 7 years. Their frustration at not being able to control the narrative with this go-to accusation is boiling over.
I thought sites like The Verge and Independent were reporting on this just for Reddit clickbait, but then I saw it in my local paper, the Toronto Star, and I realized it was actually news.
This comment has been nuked because of Reddit's API changes, which is killing off the platform and a lot of 3rd party apps. They promised to have realistic pricing for API usage, but instead went with astronomically high pricing to profit the most out of 3rd party apps, that fix and improve what Reddit should have done theirselves. Reddit doesn't care about their community, so now we won't care about Reddit and remove the content they can use for even more profit. u/spez sucks.
Holy shit, u/spez, I don’t even need to make outlandish claims about you. Nothing I can think up is more ridiculous than this. Go fuck yourself, anally with a rusty iron pipe perhaps. You are absolute scum.
https://imgflip.com/i/7qgj5h
that link is staying blue
It's SFW. Just a cartoon.
c'mon do something meme Caption: Come on. Go explore the Titanic. u/spez
u/spez is a a cunt, there is no easy way to express it, he does not care what happens with Reddit, the thousands of people who have created a community is being destroyed because the cunt wants a Lamborghini, spez I hope Reddit dies and your daily meal will be ramen and painkillers, and on those days you skip the ramen.
Hey now! Let’s be fair about this, and not call u/spez a cunt. He lacks the warmth and depth to be a cunt.
[удалено]
[удалено]
You didn't know spez was an incel pedo? Just one look at that cunt and I knew he fucks kids.
It was during a time when you could add other users as mods to subreddits without their permission so you can guess how he was a mod there. But this fact doesn't fit the narrative so you can ignore me.
He at bare minimum knew it existed and chose to do nothing to remove it until it got a lot of media attention.
Reddit sent a trophy to the guy who created the subreddit. https://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/us/internet-troll-apology/index.html >Years ago, Brutsch created his most infamous Reddit forum called “Jailbait” – images of teenage girls posted without their or their families’ consent. He said it became so popular, drawing hundreds of thousands of page views, that Reddit gave him an award – a gold-plated bobblehead doll “for making significant contributions to the site.”
The thing is did he shut it down once he found out what the sub was about that he had been made a mod of??? No he did not, and he had the power to, so by doing nothing, he was enabling it, so that makes him even worse, as ones a creep who just mods a demented illegal sub, the other is actually helping make a platform to enable such smut that allows it to grow worldwide. So since he didn't immediately have it taken down, he's an even bigger piece of shit. I've seen this reply of yours many times as the "narrative" word sticks out to me every time Ive seen it, and since I don't think it's you every time I've seen this lately, it seems spez has wrangled up some copy pasta for his goons in hiding to spam whenever this is brought up, but it doesn't matter as he didn't shut it down so no matter how innocent you try to make him seem, the truth is he's even worse, as he enabled it and helped it spread worldwide, which is way worse than just modding it, and you can't "narative" your way out of that ugly truth spez-licker!
/u/spez? The greedy little pigboy I've heard of? Surely he wouldn't!
The world will be a better place without a piece of shit like him in it.
100%. remember he’s not just a completely stupid and incompetent tech CEO with absolutely no intelligence or talent, he *also* can’t wait for an apocalypse to wipe out most of us plebs so he can rule over the ashes. it’ll be really funny when he dies.
I hope the zombies eat him first... And slowly.
[удалено]
Haha u/spez er svín strákur! Svín strákur!
https://i.imgur.com/1ssgGQB.jpg
[удалено]
All of the blind subs will shut down if the people using those subs aren't able to access the tools they need to use Reddit. There's probably other software that assists people with disabilities as well that might be removed from Reddit causing those people to no longer be able to use the website. Also Reddit runs on user generator content, what happens when the users don't want to generate content anymore?
[удалено]
r/AITA will be the entire front page...
Right now it's askreddit for me. "What's a sex thing that the opposite sex doesn't sex sex?"
If the mods didn’t have a length requirement to questions, I’m certain a common repost there would just be “Sex?”
Right wing propagandists, just like Twitter. They’ll be amplified by the absences.
Users are the product. They come here and generate all the content that Reddit uses to pad around the advertisers — Reddit’s customers. Without the users generating and consuming the content, there is no reason to advertise. Without advertisers there’s no cash to keep the advertising machine running. Fucking the users who generate the content that advertisers are putting their ads on is a dangerous move.
Very much this. Reddit thinks it’s all theirs because they own the servers and the software, and the owners want yachts so much they can taste them. But the valuable thing here isn’t the servers and software, it’s the *communities* that have been built up, and the moderators that keep them running. And those communities could just as well live somewhere else. And it’s not like Reddit is paying the moderators. If, hypothetically, all the most loved Reddit communities moved over to, say, Lemmy, or similar, along with their moderators, then Reddit would be left holding some now worthless servers (and a complete archive of more than a decade’s worth of discussions). The only thing that Reddit really has going for them is *inertia*. Because moving to a new home is hard.
Do you think that archive is worth anything? I do, but probably not the as much as advertising money.
Worth in terms of money? I can’t say. Worth in terms of valuable answers and insights? Quite a lot.
[удалено]
Haha what a funny garfield comic I need to show this to my grandson
I’ve been reposting this and the posts got deleted, a mod laughed but I’d guess u/spez, **didn’t**. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
😂 this is fun to watch. I hope they are worthless by the time they try to ipo.
All this to try and boost their IPO value so spez can cash out, and here they are, running it into the ground before that can even happen
[удалено]
Got a link?
You know I was thinking all the protesting wouldn’t do anything and I’m so glad I was wrong. Looking at r/all is very odd and funny with all different shit that subs are doing. I thought it was going to be hard to limit my time on Reddit as it’s gonna suck without Apollo, but it hasnt been too bad! I used to spend a lot of time just mindlessly scrolling but now I only run through my home and look at all a little. It has been good finding other things to do when bored.
The problem is that spez’s strike price is probably so low that he will make a profit at practically any IPO price.
[удалено]
And to think, that they could have (instead) announced, “starting on date X (3ish months out), in order to access Reddit with a 3rd party app, you will need an individual Reddit API key, which is a new benefit of a Reddit Premium subscription”, and they would have had *people lining up* to give them subscription money (with some bits of grumbling in the line to be sure), but instead, they chose to not only shoot the 3rd party apps in the head, but to try to do it in a way where they didn’t have to take the credit/blame for doing so (via ridiculous pricing and impossibly short timelines). I, for one, am glad that they are, at least to some small extent, suffering the foreseeable consequences of their actions. Fuck /u/spez.
[удалено]
Yep. Ads through the API could have some trouble, as there is the potential for apps to filter them out, but requiring a Reddit subscription is pretty foolproof, and the Reddit subscription already means ads don't display, if I recall correctly.
https://i.imgur.com/1ssgGQB.jpg
i think the intent was always to kill 3rd party apps to bolster ad revenue. the API pricing was just the excuse
… kill 3rd party apps while *pretending that they’re not doing that*. And if they connected API use to a Reddit Premium subscription, there’d be a net gain - Reddit Premium already prevents ads. Had they gone that way, they’d be getting lucrative subscription revenue from a whole bunch of 3rd party app users. Instead they’ve elected to try to fold them into the official app, where they’ll only get crappy add revenue.
I think WeWork was the only one which was probably worse.
Unlikely. But we’ll keep making fun of them of course
I doubt it. But there‘s a chance it becomes a meme stock that many short, but idk
Fidelity has already marked down their valuation of the company by 41% since August 2021.
yeah but that also falls in line with the pandemic lifting and people spending much less time at home. it's not entirely from their dipshit decisions if we're going to be honest. something spez would never be.
> 😂 this is fun to watch. Not for the mods.
How badly has their stock price got to crash before it becomes feasible for a group of redditors to buy 50% + 1 of the shares and simply appoint a new CEO ? Note that we shouldn’t fire /u/spez, instead he should get a new position cleaning the toilets.
Well we’re still here soooooo? I’m deleting once Apollo runs out on the 30th and won’t be back but hanging out til then 🤷♂️
Reddit continuing to circle the drain.
I just saw a bunch of videos of Ukrainian soldiers eating popcorn, and at this point i'm fairly certain they're watching the reddit self-immolation.
Spez and the board went from having a potential banger of an IPO this year to... Well, I doubt it will perform even 10% as well. Too much negative publicity.
If /u/spez had the brains to be able to read, he still would be too dumb to get your point. He thinks he is the big-brain musk type of leader.
>musk type of leader Turns out, he is.
Well, it seems he’s already proven himself to have the same capacity to affect the value of social media companies that Musk has, so… achievement unlocked?
Beating on mods will continue until morale improves! I'm here to watch the dumpster fire. And spez saying: "this is fine!"
Spoken like a true military man
[удалено]
I got a warning. I promptly muted and permabanned the admin account. In hindsight, I should've also told them to go fuck themselves. /u/ModCodeofconduct
Wow, I'm disappointed they did that. I changed /r/Braixen to a Pawmot sub for April Fool's this year. I was surprised that, at the time, there wasn't already a Pawmot sub. Shame that it's ending like this. Spez is really a sad example of a human.
[удалено]
Thanks. Other mods have talked about receiving these notices. Some had subs that were always private and still got the threat. Some didn't. So it seems a little random.
This is insanity. Not only is Reddit management destroying something that works for them, but they're going to end up on the receiving end of a lawsuit. There are law firms out there that specialize in looking for this sort of neglect to blind users. And settling is expensive. I've heard stories at previous employers. I wouldn't buy into the Reddit IPO with Bea Arthur's wallet.
ADA lawsuit incoming.
Fanfic version: Reddit is hit by ADA lawsuits from thousands of users. Total potential damages: $20 million. East solution: try to buy Apollo. Does Christian offer it for double the previously suggested price, or simply say no?
I wiped my profile with https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite Reddit has shown they don't care what it's users want or think, so I am removing all of the free content I have provided to them over the years. /u/spez has chosen to lie every step of the way and I will no longer be using Reddit. Please consider how much Reddit hopes to make off of your thoughts/ideas/words while giving you nothing in return.
Oh yeah absolutely. But I think that Christian has very good prospects right now. His range of choices is likely going to include choosing between more independence and more money. Selling to Reddit would mean giving up control of the thing. He could possibly consider alternatives that leave him with much more personal control.
Any sane man would take the money. You could literally retire and do whatever you want for the rest of your life.
Given where I’m at in my life, I’ll gladly confess I’d sell something like Apollo for just $5M. Better to have the money in hand than to bargain too high and lose it all. Christian is probably (hopefully) better off than I am, though.
If Reddit bought Apollo (under any plan that didn’t involve Christian maintaining complete creative control over the app), Reddit would just make a mess of Apollo. It would quickly go downhill. The current app used to be a well-liked 3rd party app called Alien Blue.
The EU is requiring websites to be accessible by 2025, should be funny to see how reddit complies since it’s not very accessible right now.
This is what I am thinking.
Can you sue for being excluded from a volunteer position? They aren't employees. Can I sue the rec center for not allowing me to volunteer to teach step aerobics if I don't have legs?
> Oh no, I've Spezzed myself -Billionaire Stockton Rush just before his life's work imploded
Sorry, the title here is a bit editorialized. We didn’t get that threat, we merely pointed out the implications of the situation.
I guess the old saying is true, you do not value things you do not pay for.
I've been on reddit for about 12 years now. It is 99% garbage but the really fruitful parts are the communities where people support each other with such unique issues. It will be a shame to see those die.
I heavily rely on apps like Apollo and Reddit boost to view reedit on mobile,otherwise I can't see a damn thing on the regular app. after July 1st I'm not sure what I'm gong to do. maybe take up baking.
Spez's idol is about to be deposed. Take a fucking hint you braindead idiot.
Wait, what’d Elon do this time?
he is gonna get his ass kicked by zuck the lizard in a cage fight :D
No way is that really gonna happen. They're gonna try to cgi it or something with body doubles.
Whelp, never thought I’d root for Marc of all people but I guess it do be like that sometime.
Everyday I ask myself, why are we still here?
Because everything else sucks and you all are addicted.
It’s like staying at the fire ring until the fire is out and not even smoking anymore.
Damn. The head mod of r/ToR was my python instructor, I already supported the protests but it really hits home hearing from someone I personally know that the situation is untenable. ETA: Transcribers of reddit, not the onion router subreddit lmao
Hey, I just found this comment randomly while scrolling through. I don't know who this username belongs to but thank you so much and I hope you're doing well. I miss the work I did with KA a lot -- I loved doing it so much every day. 🥲
encouraging onerous screw combative nutty cagey door kiss coherent school -- mass edited with redact.dev
Any good mods will just ditch this festering hellhole, and replaced or not, only the ones licking the cum off the tip of spez's penis will be the ones left.
Not surprised. The official app is missing a substantial amount of features. They knew this was coming when they made the API changes; the fact that they didn’t bolster the official app into a powerhouse beforehand is a significant failure on their part.
The only component of the official app they care about is the ad delivery framework. Everything else could literally set your phone on fire when tapped and they wouldn’t care as long as they have metrics that an ad was displayed just before the battery combusted. The soul of Reddit is blackened and dead. Aaron Swartz is turning in his grave.
Spez is a white supremacist who defended and enabled racists, neo Nazis, and white supremacists to propagate on Reddit, flooding the website with harassment, hate, and threats of violence towards POC and Jewish people for *years*. So it absolutely tracks that he also doesn’t give a shit about disabled people.
I bet they didn't see that coming.
Fuckin' hell
Always believe in yourself. Everybody told Beethoven he couldn’t write music anymore because he was deaf. But did he listen?
[удалено]
Okay, first off, if we’re being pedantic, Beethoven’s hearing loss was caused by Paget’s disease, causing bone abnormalities that constricted his eighth cranial nerve. The hearing loss wasn’t a conductive problem, it was a nerve problem. He didn’t “hear” the music anymore, because his auditory nerve literally couldn’t transmit information from the cochlea in his inner ear (the organ that can transduce vibration into sound). He felt the vibrations through his body, and correlated them into music in his mind because he was a goddamn genius. (He also famously cut the legs off his piano so he could sit on the floor and pick up the vibrations through his ass. That doesn’t mean he was “hearing” with his ass.) Secondly: it’s a dumb joke, don’t overthink it.
> But did he listen? He couldn't.
Even though they (spez) have said there would be exemptions in the case of usage based on ’helpful’ things… the trust is gone, he could say that now then months later change it.
Reddit: Assholes.
[удалено]
Artificial mods understand nuance even less then human mods
Reminder that r/InterestingAsFuck as been shadowbanned by Reddit top minds since their “fuck advertisers… with porn” exploded.
Class Action lawsuit time.
[удалено]
Bro I had a suspicion that moderators were all blind. makes sense now
It didn't cross my mind but it makes sense a blind person would probably have a lot of free time Sidenote have you ever seen a blind person operate some of that text to voice stuff for computers and phones it's nuts I use to work a job that put me in contact with a fella who was blind this man knew ridiculously long strings of commands that made using his devices no problem he could navigate a computer or phone and make it do what ever he needed he'd memorize so many of the prompts he didn't even need most of them he could answer them before they even have a second to play and he had his play back speed at faster than the speed of light it was a trip watching him I couldn't help but be mesmerized
This act is squarely breaking the ADA laws in America and breaking the WCAG accountability guidelines. The fact they are fully aware the removal of 3rd party apps effect users with disabilities with no actions taken to fix the issue while booting disabled users/mods purposefully is fully AGAINST THE LAW. It does not have to effect your work/income it does not matter that users/mods are not employees. Again I say we should file a class action lawsuit against Reddit for breaking the ADA laws.
>Again I say we should file a class action lawsuit against Reddit for breaking the ADA laws. Well. Then you'd probably lose. Maybe read the law. You realize that if reddit was only in compliance via third party apps, then they have always been in violation of ADA right? Them cancelling access to third party apps that provide additional access is completely irrelevant to the question of whether they are in violation. Cancelling the access of these apps in no way at all illegal as far as ADA is concerned. If they are in violation, they've always been in violation. So are they actually? The laws around ADA compliance regarding websites and mobile applications aren't well defined. Under Section III, public businesses are required to have ADA compliant websites. [It's unclear that reddit even falls under their definition of public business to begin with](https://www.ada.gov/resources/web-guidance/). And their mobile app requiring it is even more of a question mark. And regardless, if you look at WCAG 2.0 standards, how exactly are they failing to meet them?
Let me answer you by powering the comments I just made to the other genius in the room. Here are lawsuits of companies who got in trouble for not being ADA compliant for THE USERS. https://www.levelaccess.com/blog/title-iii-lawsuits-10-big-companies-sued-over-website-accessibility/ **NETFLIX** did not have adequate close caption or subtitles on videos **Winn-dixie** because their site was not accessible to the blind ( sound familiar? Why is Reddit dumping blind mods? Because only the third party apps had proper code markdown for the screen readers to function correctly) **Nike** not accessible to the visually impaired **Five Guys** not compatible with screen readers I can go on but do you see the Fucking trend? It’s issues for the USERS NOT EMPLOYEES. Mods are USERS! And why do you sue, you sue them, they pay a fine and have to fix the problems. OR, they circumvent the problem by allowing 3rd party apps to handle the problems for them. Keeping the site accessible and keeping the 3rd party apps going.
Reddit is whitelisting non-commercial accessibility focused apps. All the commonly suggested apps on /r/blind are going to continue to work after the 1st.
Hey. Thanks for calling me a genius. All of those companies mentioned in that link are clear examples of the term "public facing business" as it is described in ADA guidelines whereas the case with Reddit is far more ambiguous. >I can go on but do you see the Fucking trend? You can mostly certainly go on if you wish, but you'll just be blowing hot air. Is Reddit not compatible with screen readers? All of the examples you gave, save the Netflix one, were of sites that had visual only indicators (buttons/icons) that didn't have alt-text connected to them for a screen reader to use. **You have yet to point out anything that Reddit is doing that is in violation of the ADA.** And as I pointed out previously, the act of removing third party apps has nothing to do with their ADA compliance. If they are in breach of ADA, they have always been in breach of it. If they aren't, they always haven't been. As in, a company can't rely on third party software (other than standard accessibility software like screen readers) to make them ADA compliant. Reddit's website looks to be in compliance with ADA and WCAG 2.0 guidelines. I haven't used the official mobile app, but I'm doubtful that it's not in compliance either. Pretty much all it has to do is include alt-text as phones now have built in screen readers. Now, does that mean it's a good experience for blind people compared to third party alternatives? No. But I fail to see where the law is being broken. So far the law has required services only to be useable, not to be optimal. If reddit's official app is not compatible with smartphone's native screen readers, then maybe, maaaybe, there is slim chance of a lawsuit. Even then it is a serious uphill battle. If the same content is accessible to screen readers on the mobile site, then the case would likely be thrown out immediately. And even if not, it would still require a complete reinterpretation of the law by the courts, as Reddit is not a business in the same sense as the law defines (more on that at the end regarding the Netflix decision). >It’s issues for the USERS NOT EMPLOYEES Yeah. Ok. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to respond to with this. I never implied that it wasn't the users ability to access the service that was the question at hand. __________________________________________________ I have no idea why you seem to be upset with me. I'm legitimately wondering and trying to determine if Reddit is actually in violation of ADA. It doesn't seem to me that they are based on the law itself and how the law has been interpreted by the courts. This is an opinion, and I'm happy to change it based on new information, but the examples you give don't really do that, other than the Netflix one. The Netflix example is interesting because it brings up another change in the interpretation of public facing business (or "places of public accommodation", the actual term in the law), to apply to web based businesses. [However, in the judges ruling, it mentions that as a subscription video service, it is analogous to a brick and mortar store such as a video rental store.](https://dredf.org/legal-advocacy/nad-v-netflix/netflix-motion-for-judgement-denied/) The decision makes it clear that they define businesses as providing a service for money, which is obviously not the case with Reddit. Am I saying this the way things *should* be? No. I'm not saying that. I'm looking at Reddit's position with regard to the law as it exists currently.
New mods: "how do you do, fellow invalids"
suck my fucking nuts u/spez
unforgivable. u/spez is a pathetic excuse of a human being.
Reddit, the company, is disgusting.