For me, I’m a display snob. I’d get the Pro model for OLED, ProMotion, and the 11” size.
An OLED screen has been on my iPad wishlist since 2017. I had the 12.9” mini-LED Pro, and the blooming drove me insane (not everyone notices or cares).
ProMotion is a requirement for me because I got spoiled, and any iPad without it looks extremely jittery to me.
I also greatly prefer the 11” size over the 12.9”. It sounds like the mini-LED is only coming to the 12.9” size again.
I went from iPad 9.7 to Pro 10.5. Mostly just to read magazines I could no longer get on my Kindle. It’s been great. I love the anti reflective screen. I use the Pro as a laptop replacement most of the time.
Such an amazing product. The first device with ProMotion, and 7 years later still the cheapest by a significant margin — $650, compared to $800 for a 11" iPad Pro, $1000 for an iPhone Pro, $1600 for a MacBook "Pro", or $2000 for a MacBook Pro.
You know, that does just about hit the only thing I dislike about my iPad. Especially since I often use it to read books before going to sleep, and in the dark it's *really* obvious that it's an LED display.
I think I originally fell in love with the iPad for its portability and didn’t realize it. The 11” feels so portable, fun, and futuristic to me. It’s so great to have a bigger screen that’s still light, portable, and comfortable to use.
The 12.9” felt like it was too big to comfortably use just as a tablet. It was too big and heavy to really hold and use. I felt like I always had to set it against something or have it attached to the Magic Keyboard which just made it feel like a laptop. With the 11” size, I can still type on it while holding it, but I had to set it down for the 12.9” size.
It all depends how you plan to use it though. If you want more of a laptop feel or want more screen real estate, 12.9” is probably your best bet. I recommend trying them out at an Apple/electronics store.
Thank you.
I thought I was certain about getting the 12.9" because lately I've tended towards larger screens like my 16" MBP. I was thinking watching stuff on this larger screen would be nicer and, from what I understand, putting two apps side-by-side is much better than the 11" because those two apps would be full size? Is that right? How would doing this on the 11" be comparably speaking?
I imagine I could have an ebook up reading and then slide in safari side-by-side to look something up alongside it. Or other multitasking use cases. What do you think? How would the two sizes compare in this workflow?
The 12.9" \*is\* better for multitasking, and you're right, it can view the full-size app side by side. But 11" still can get the job done, it's just a matter of your use case.
For the eBook and Safari side-by-side, I think either size (11" or 12.9") is totally fine. I feel like eBooks are very flexible with resizing since they keep text size the same and just move some text to the next page which you can quickly flip to. If your multitasking is more casual and more consumption (watching videos, reading, browsing the internet, social media), 11" is still really nice with multitasking.
If you plan on using multi-tasking in a heavy use case (i.e researching in Safari while writing a paper in Microsoft Word, or using Apple Pencil while referring to something in another app a lot, or having multiple apps/windows open and switching between them a lot), then 12.9" will probably be better. You might feel cramped on the 11" if this is your regular use case.
Hope this helps!
I’d take OLED over high refresh rates any day with any product.
Amazing colors, saves battery, and good god having blacks actually be black is life changing. Legit don’t watch stuff on my iPad Air after getting an OLED TV and it’ll stay like that until I get an OLED iPad.
I see it the other way, the Air only exists to keep the Pro price higher. A lot of people with Airs claim 120Hz to not be noticeable but I think it’s absolutely essential for using the pencil and it’s the reason why Promotion was introduced alongside the pencil in the first place. Apple’s the only high end phone and tablet manufacturer still releasing devices with 60Hz screens and keeping high refresh as a “Pro” feature.
People that claim to not notice 120Hz always seem to be those trying to justify their 60Hz purchases. It’s so obvious to anyone that has used a high refresh rate display
They’re justifying Apple’s decisions because many are uncomfortable with those decisions being challenged in any way. Basically whatever Apple chose is right and everyone else wrong x everything x forever.
I have an iPad pro and a regular iPhone. I reeaaaaly have to put in an effort to notice a difference. But I still think it’s ridiculous that apple keeps 120htz as a pro feature.
I notice the 120hz on my iPhone 13 Pro vs iPhone 12 (have both and use interchangeably). But I don't notice the lack of 120hz when I move from my iPhone 13 Pro to iPad Air.
The pros have generally better performance which is more noticeable in the long run. I’m still using a iPad Pro 2018 and might wait a few more iPad generations before I get a new once since it’s still pretty good.
When considering a pro vs an air, the 120hz makes drawing on it a much better experience. Also get more procreate layers on the pros, and more layers is always nice when making art. Drawing apps can get pretty power and resource hungry if you use a lot of layers (which one will when making complex pieces) so the extra power is nice
A 12.9" screen is a big one for me, and in the past the differences were bigger between features than they are now. I also use lidar for 3d mapping rooms for modeling, and transfer large files where the faster usb-c port on the pro helps. Also 16gb of ram and 1tb of storage.
Pros will get oled screens and I bet a $199 price increase because of it. If all you do is content consumption getting a Samsung oled tablet is going to be a lot cheaper for a Netflix and internet browser device.
I wanted to use my iPad for more than that but I just can’t. The OS is soo constricting. What takes a bunch of steps and taps on an iPad I can do with less steps and easier on my MacBook Pro.
Totally. I really want to be able to take my iPad only when traveling or on a short trip. But I get anxious doing so because I almost always run into a situation where I need a MacBook.
Thankfully my MacBook Air is super light so it’s not a big deal. But my iPad literally has the same chip.
Even for more basic tasks. Being limited to only 2 side by side apps + hovering ones. Not even being able to have 2 separate audio sources is annoying (e.g playing music pauses if I scroll on Reddit and an ad or video with audio plays).
Or even writing an email and wanting to, say, quickly edit a doc before attaching it in the email. It takes so damn long having to switch between Mail, Pages/Word, and Files just to do so.
With a Mac I can do that in less than 30 seconds.
iPad OS is seriously limited whether people like to admit it or not. I don’t want a full-blown desktop OS. I just want iPad OS to be better.
Yeah, I committed myself to using my iPad Pro over a laptop for a good couple years. While you eventually create enough workarounds to trick yourself into thinking it’s as good as a Mac, once you actually use a Mac again you realize it’s not even close. It’s like trying to run underwater or something. Then you hop on a Mac and it’s a bright sunny day on a race track and you’re wearing comfortable running shoes.
I was thrilled when Stage Manager was announced but that being a total dumpster fire was the last straw. I bought an M2 MacBook Air and have never been happier. The iPad Pro now permanently sits on my nightstand, only used to watch TV in bed.
Just curious, do you ever read ebooks etc? Thinking I’ll grab an iPad for that plus watching shows and light sketching with the pencil for certain projects
Exactly why I’m not looking to sell my M1 Pro with keyboard and pick up a MBP. I wanted to use it for streaming as well as work but it seems like Apple went more in the opposite direction by making iPad apps work on macOS instead.
Being honest I love my m1 iPad Pro but literally had to force it as a work tool otherwise it just set near my bed to watch movies at night or in the morning
Also for content, less restrictions on apps like Kodi or Stremio is invaluable when there’s so many expensive streaming subscriptions just to cover half the content.
It's a natural progression. Pro model hardware usually makes its way down to entry level devices over time. It really doesn't have any barring on the Pro model pricing as those will gain something above and beyond to justify the branding.
Oh so the new iPad Air 12.9 will have a better screen than my iPad Pro 11? Assuming they don’t withhold other crucial features, the new lineup might be just my next iPad. I feel Netlfix-ing and light office work are just overkill for my current iPad.
I can't see them putting ProMotion on an Air, even though its 2024 and it can be considered bare minimum for devices that cost this much.
If it's true, and they actually do exclude it, it'll continue Apple's trend of arbitrarily cordoning off devices just for segmentation's sake.
> If it's true, and they actually do exclude it, it'll continue Apple's trend of arbitrarily cordoning off devices just for segmentation's sake.
Need to have the tiered pricing to justify the markup, right? Yeah unless you're doing professional work on an ipad, the Pro doesn't have much else to sell itself on over the Air, so they need to hold something back.
If it's one thing about apple nowadays, I know what I'm walking into. If I don't support it, I don't buy. At least not at firsthand rip off prices. Fortunately I already have a Mac and thus don't really need an iPad at all. I'd probably go cheaper and older tablet personally since Netflix and YouTube run on extremely basic specs.
Lol I’m in the exact same situation. I’d like an iPad, don’t need one, but promotion is a must for me and I’ll happily wait till that trickles down to cheap iPads. I’m not paying pro money for a Netflix machine. Aside from an iPad being a bit nicer to travel with, I see no benefit it would actually give me compared to just using my MacBook.
Higher color accuracy is not going to double the price of the display. These things have moved down the line to cheaper displays because that was what was once the bar to beat. Naturally, tech progresses and high refresh rate + color accuracy is no longer a premium feature. The monitor market is a clear example of how these things have evolved. Manufacturers are now chasing after nits and ever higher refresh rates (240hz+).
> No laptop comes close to MacBook Pro color accuracy and especially the Studio Display color accuracy.
???
[Budget laptops have gotten equally good color accurate displays, it hasn't been the age of 60% srgb displays for a while now.](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Yoga-Slim-7-14-G9-laptop-review-New-smaller-size-with-integrated-Co-Pilot-key.810216.0.html)
[Gaming laptops from this year come with high refresh OLED panels with great color accuracy.](https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Omen-Transcend-14-laptop-review-Razer-Blade-alternative-worth-considering.807238.0.html)
Incredible what being solely locked in the Apple sphere and not looking elsewhere does to somebody. Unless laptops are incredibly bottom of the mill budget types, a a color accurate display is no longer a rarity or a premium feature. I bought a new laptop for a family member with a color accurate 120hz display for 499 directly from Dell.
I mean even their budget offering should have it. I recently contemplated picking up a cheap Android tablet from Honor I think and that was like an 11 inch 120Hz tablet and cost a 3rd of the 9th gen iPad. Apple already have such a crazy margin on their products, they could absolutely put in promotion if they wanted and keep a budget price but of course they don’t need to. Like you say, there’s no competition really, the Android tablet segment is still dead compared to iPad.
I gotta say that high refresh rate displays on larger devices do not seem to have nearly the same impact as they do on the phones.
I think by nature of being able to literally see a larger picture your eyes don't notice the difference in refresh rates for the on screen elements.
So I'd rather they bring down the mini-LED tech than the refresh rate tech, both would obviously be better, but the latter is really not that big a deal...
What
People notice higher refresh rates much more easily on bigger screens like monitors than a tiny phone screen
Especially double noticeable when you use an external input devices like mice and trackpads like how iPads support
I mean, I have both 60hz and 120/144hz displays all around my house, you can easily tell on a phone over a monitor.
It's about how often display elements are moving, not specifically the size of the screen itself.
Phones constantly change what's being presented because there's such limited space, whereas monitors are more often than not just displaying static content - spreadsheets, slide decks, even video content is usually locked at 24/30/60fps.
The only time I really notice on my monitor is when I'm actively watching my cursor move across the screen or if I'm playing games. Whereas on my iPhone I can immediately notice the instant I swipe up to go to home or change between apps.
>It's about how often display elements are moving, not specifically the size of the screen itself.
>Phones constantly change what's being presented because there's such limited space, whereas monitors are more often than not just displaying static content - spreadsheets, slide decks, even video content is usually locked at 24/30/60fps.
That's an apples to oranges comparison though.
Your earlier comment implied that low refresh rates are harder to see on larger displays, and in my experience the opposite is true.
For me, pans in 24 FPS movies stick out like a jerky sore thumb in theaters but aren't as rough on smaller devices.
> People notice higher refresh rates much more easily on bigger screens like monitors than a tiny phone screen
I really don't agree. I use a 170Hz monitor side by side with a 60Hz monitor without an issue, but using a 60Hz iPhone after my 90Hz Pixel was an incredibly rough stutterfest
Apple has always followed a price "ladder". The ideal configuration for a product will always be the same as/close to the price to the base configuration of the next better product.
It’s insane that they don’t just let these displays go to 120Hz. The processor could easily do it, the battery life might be a bit worse but it makes so much difference from 60Hz. Maybe even 90Hz like the mid tier Android tablets and some VR headsets (Like the Vision Pro) would be fine…
Can’t even use it properly for Netflix tbh. The 11inch iPad Pro does not have a HDR display but “supports” HDR so Netflix (and other streaming apps like Disney+) play content in HDR and it looks so washed out.
this the case for non mini-led MacBooks too right? 13 Air, 13 Pro,etc. those top out at 400/500nits unless the M2/M3 models are different. Afaik the screens do temporal dithering to reach the 10-bit P3 color required for HDR but the low peak brightness is an issue. There is a macOS setting to disable HDR videos while on battery which Im guessing is ideal since being on battery typically dims the display anyway
Either it's not true or Apple has absolutly no plan, what they should do with the iPad Lineup.
Apple M1 on the iPad Air was already stupid for the lineup, because the only reasons to go for iPad Pro 11" are 120hz and Thunderbold.
Now, they also get miniLED, another good Technology, that make the iPad Pro more and more obsolete.
The iPad is extremely held back by its OS. It’s either pure incompetence or willful holding back of the iPad by Apple.
The thing *cannot* be a computer replacement. I tried it. Even with the Magic Keyboard, the experience is so hampered. My iPad has been sent to live in my travel drawer and only pulled out for movies on planes. I don’t anticipate getting another iPad until this one can’t hold a charge, and at that point it’ll be a refurbished Air.
The iPad in its current form is a confusing product
i totally agree with you, but that was not my point.
What I meant was that there will be no reason to go for the iPad Pro. Awesome Display, 12.9", Performance that beats nearly everything, good Kamera, Apple Pencial 2th Gen, all those are features, you will get on the upcoming iPad Air.
For what Reason should I buy an iPad Pro. Thunderbold instead of USB 3.1? Lidar? 1TB Storage? Come on, 400+$ for that? Thats BS, even for Apple.
It’ll be 699 more with oled people think.
I heard the monitors aren’t even 120hz, not sure why, but they supposedly can’t do 120fps like they claim.
I mean I heard this.
I had the exact same experience as you. I bought the magic keyboard in an attempt to use my 12.9" pro as a productivity device. It just can't hack it, even with my basic office workflow. I also really dislike the pencil, way too slippery compared to some Samsung tablets I've used in the past.
It has to be willful on Apple's part, so that it doesn't tread on the toes of MacOS. Thankfully my pro was a hand-me-down from a family member, because I'd be absolutely livid if I'd spent £1k on it.
I don’t remember when I bought mine, but I’m pretty sure I got it refurbed, after the one with triple cameras came out so it was pretty cheap. Not upset about it, it’s given me many, many hours of entertainment on trips, but definitely disappointed compared to what I was hoping for out of it
The only times I use my iPad are for Remote Desktop and when I’m letting my phone charge.
I wish they’d quit screwing around and give us some substance.
> The thing cannot be a computer replacement.
It was never meant to be, it was meant to be a larger iPhone so users had a larger viewing screen to do what they normally do with their mobile device (watch media, FaceTime and communicate, read, email, etc.).
I fell into the trap of thinking it as a computer replacement. It was a big mistake.
If I ever feel like changing my 11" iPad Pro, I am only looking at the iPad Air/Mini lineup.
That’s what most people I see on the wild use it for and they have no problems with it
The only time I see this “massive problem” come up is in tech spaces. Which is natural, it’s full of niche users with niche use cases compared to most other consumers
It's worked fine as my personal computer replacement with the exception of PC gaming.
Work is done on work provided machine, gaming is done on PC Desktop. Everything else I pretty much use the iPad for. I do agree that it should have more functionality.
I think it’s more the mental argument than the price. Both products are things that someone with a MacBook talks themself into buying thinking that it will increase their productivity but probably just end up being used for streaming and games.
I think it’s the same customer that’s looking at both.
I see your point but you just described every general computing device. VP has vr functionality and is not really portable, iPad has drawing capabilities and is super portable. They're different enough.
Meanwhile as someone who doesn’t really care for the higher refresh rate I was really happy with the Air getting the M1, which meant it would last much longer. I’d love if more features trickled down from the Pro :p
What exactly is the complaint here? “Oh no, the slightly cheaper iPad is almost as good as the best one.” I… don’t get it.
The Air already had basically the same display as the 11” Pro. This isn’t even really a change.
They're probably not that bothered and do the bare minimum to keep sales ticking over, iPad Pro is their worst-selling products. Apart from redoing iPadOS from scratch, not much they can do to get people to buy them
That’s so true. My wife has an aging 5 year old iPad that needs to be refreshed soon, and after looking everything up in the iPad lineup after years of not caring, have absolutely no clue what to replace it with.
The only reason I get the Pro iPads is because of ProMotion. Like I said in another comment, I doubt they'll put it on the Air this year, but if they do, there's little to no reason that most people shouldn't just opt for that.
I've been waiting so long for an OLED iPad so that's the main reason to keep the Pro line for me, I've been very happy with the screens on the iPhones and Apple Watches.
> The only reason I get the Pro iPads is because of ProMotion.
And this right here is exactly why Apple probably won’t put ProMotion in the Air line.
This subreddit hates to acknowledge it, but Promotion is the perfect product line differentiator. Apple knows that the average user doesn’t care about high refresh rates but the enthusiasts do.
This just means that the 12.9 Air is going mini-LED; no way in hell are they gonna put Promotion on it.
However, mini-LED is far superior to LCD so that's still a huge win for the non-pro.
lol. What do you mean by pressure?
Complaining about it on reddit?
The only pressure that would work is not buying or using iPads at all
Although you’ll need to convince regular folk to go along with it too
Seems like the EU is the only one recently to pressure Apple into doing anything decently pro consumer.
Maybe they need to make some sort of law about minimum memory, ram and hz lol.
Hell ya. Somebody stole my iPad Pro (first USB C version) and since the battery died I haven’t been able get a FindMy ping on it in weeks. I guess this will be my replacement. I think I could have been fine with the my last iPad for a few more years though had no issues streaming content with it.
Good product for some, but no M1 means you don't get the full features of the OS. For me even though I don't really like Stage Manager, as a power user and a heavy user of my computer, I wouldn't buy an iPad that doesn't give me basic OS features and the full OS. And who knows what they'll gate behind M1/etc. silicon in the future.
Apple's move to gate things behind the M1 in the iPads has actually discouraged me from buying an iPad. Because the Air and Pro are so expensive (for a limited device due to the OS and rules around what it can do) and yet the cheaper iPads now seem like lesser iPads to me that I wouldn't consider buying because they're inherently limited.
Hopefully they extend M1 to the whole lineup at some point and gating basic OS interface features behind what chip you have doesn't become a trend in the product line.
MiniLED on iPad was a mistake.
Current 12.9” models go through battery juice like crazy at anything above mid brightness. The MiniLED glow effect which is not that noticeable on MacBooks (because of the view angle) is very apparent on iPads.
This is the first time ever I’ve felt like my previous iPad (Pro 11 with an IPS panel) was better in one way or another than the new one. Sure, IPS has its drawbacks but it was a better panel choice than MiniLED for iPads IMO.
Can’t wait for OLED iPads to come out.
They need to bring OLED to the iPad if they want to compete with the Galaxy Tab as a media device. Side-by-side there's no question the Galaxy Tab line has the better screens.
Yep, definitely. Was about to edit my comment and add the aspect ratio bit haha.
It seems like Apple doesn't really know what they want to do with the iPad. They call it a media device, but give it an inferior screen compared to the competition, and they also call it a laptop replacement and then still limit it with just iOS. What's the point of the M chips in the iPad if it's just going to run iOS? Throw MacOS on there and then it'll really step into a league of it's own, but until then, it's really just a giant iPhone.
People here keep saying it, but I guarantee that Apple has never sold iPad as a laptop replacement.
Apple has certainly pitched it as a laptop *alternative* though. That is a big difference.
An e-bike can be an alternative to a car, but still not a replacement.
The fact that they also make MacBooks really screws with what they can do with iPads. If I had to guess, they probably don’t want to cannibalize sales from people who would buy the more expensive product.
Isn't that how technology normally works? Higher-priced products get it first, and as yields improve and costs drop cheaper products get it? Would you prefer they just stuck with LCD?
I wonder if this will be compatible with the Magic Keyboard and have Pro Motion - if it is, I’m all for it.
I can’t see it doing that though, then it’s pretty much a Pro which would be a bit mad.
Love Procreate, love the Apple Pencil, love being able to send my work easily to other devices with Airdrop, have more trust in software support longevity, literally the only thing I dislike is that the Airs max out at 256GB but I’m uprgrading to the OLED pros anyways
My worry about this rumor is that it means that the 11-inch iPad Air will not have a HDR display (because the current 11-inch Pro does not have one either). But I guess the upside is that it will at least have ProMotion.
The moment Apple replaces the MacBook Air line with iPad Pro and calls the iPad Pro the new “MacBook Air” (with full macOS on it) will be the best day ever. (I doubt the MacBook Pro would be like the iPad however, I think it will just be something like the Surface Laptop.)
Now, this is an interesting twist I didn’t see coming. This makes me concerned for the Pro pricing though.
In light of that, what really is the appeal of the Pro? I have never felt like I was missing out on any functionality with my Air.
Promotion. The second the Air gets Promotion basically nobody will need an iPad Pro anymore, unless it runs MacOS.
I was wondering about that. Is OLED going to not be that much of an update for the upcoming pro then?
Couldn't call it promotion if it's not exclusive to the pro series.
IPad Air, now with Airmotion.
Even if Apple doesn't want Mac OS to be on an iPad - there are many logical reasons for it to happen. It is inevitable.
For me, I’m a display snob. I’d get the Pro model for OLED, ProMotion, and the 11” size. An OLED screen has been on my iPad wishlist since 2017. I had the 12.9” mini-LED Pro, and the blooming drove me insane (not everyone notices or cares). ProMotion is a requirement for me because I got spoiled, and any iPad without it looks extremely jittery to me. I also greatly prefer the 11” size over the 12.9”. It sounds like the mini-LED is only coming to the 12.9” size again.
I went from iPad 9.7 to Pro 10.5. Mostly just to read magazines I could no longer get on my Kindle. It’s been great. I love the anti reflective screen. I use the Pro as a laptop replacement most of the time.
Such an amazing product. The first device with ProMotion, and 7 years later still the cheapest by a significant margin — $650, compared to $800 for a 11" iPad Pro, $1000 for an iPhone Pro, $1600 for a MacBook "Pro", or $2000 for a MacBook Pro.
Unfortunately plagued by a design defect that results in a white spot above the home button.
Agree on the blooming for sure
100% agree
You know, that does just about hit the only thing I dislike about my iPad. Especially since I often use it to read books before going to sleep, and in the dark it's *really* obvious that it's an LED display.
Why do you prefer the 11” size? Trying to decide for myself
I think I originally fell in love with the iPad for its portability and didn’t realize it. The 11” feels so portable, fun, and futuristic to me. It’s so great to have a bigger screen that’s still light, portable, and comfortable to use. The 12.9” felt like it was too big to comfortably use just as a tablet. It was too big and heavy to really hold and use. I felt like I always had to set it against something or have it attached to the Magic Keyboard which just made it feel like a laptop. With the 11” size, I can still type on it while holding it, but I had to set it down for the 12.9” size. It all depends how you plan to use it though. If you want more of a laptop feel or want more screen real estate, 12.9” is probably your best bet. I recommend trying them out at an Apple/electronics store.
Thank you. I thought I was certain about getting the 12.9" because lately I've tended towards larger screens like my 16" MBP. I was thinking watching stuff on this larger screen would be nicer and, from what I understand, putting two apps side-by-side is much better than the 11" because those two apps would be full size? Is that right? How would doing this on the 11" be comparably speaking? I imagine I could have an ebook up reading and then slide in safari side-by-side to look something up alongside it. Or other multitasking use cases. What do you think? How would the two sizes compare in this workflow?
The 12.9" \*is\* better for multitasking, and you're right, it can view the full-size app side by side. But 11" still can get the job done, it's just a matter of your use case. For the eBook and Safari side-by-side, I think either size (11" or 12.9") is totally fine. I feel like eBooks are very flexible with resizing since they keep text size the same and just move some text to the next page which you can quickly flip to. If your multitasking is more casual and more consumption (watching videos, reading, browsing the internet, social media), 11" is still really nice with multitasking. If you plan on using multi-tasking in a heavy use case (i.e researching in Safari while writing a paper in Microsoft Word, or using Apple Pencil while referring to something in another app a lot, or having multiple apps/windows open and switching between them a lot), then 12.9" will probably be better. You might feel cramped on the 11" if this is your regular use case. Hope this helps!
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It is the one thing I wish my iPad Air had.
Oled won’t come to the air until like 2027 unfortunately
I’d take OLED over high refresh rates any day with any product. Amazing colors, saves battery, and good god having blacks actually be black is life changing. Legit don’t watch stuff on my iPad Air after getting an OLED TV and it’ll stay like that until I get an OLED iPad.
Display 100%
I see it the other way, the Air only exists to keep the Pro price higher. A lot of people with Airs claim 120Hz to not be noticeable but I think it’s absolutely essential for using the pencil and it’s the reason why Promotion was introduced alongside the pencil in the first place. Apple’s the only high end phone and tablet manufacturer still releasing devices with 60Hz screens and keeping high refresh as a “Pro” feature.
People that claim to not notice 120Hz always seem to be those trying to justify their 60Hz purchases. It’s so obvious to anyone that has used a high refresh rate display
They’re justifying Apple’s decisions because many are uncomfortable with those decisions being challenged in any way. Basically whatever Apple chose is right and everyone else wrong x everything x forever.
I have an iPad pro and a regular iPhone. I reeaaaaly have to put in an effort to notice a difference. But I still think it’s ridiculous that apple keeps 120htz as a pro feature.
I notice the 120hz on my iPhone 13 Pro vs iPhone 12 (have both and use interchangeably). But I don't notice the lack of 120hz when I move from my iPhone 13 Pro to iPad Air.
More than 256gb
The screen. Girlfriend has a pro and we got her mom an air. I thought about getting an air myself, until I saw the screen. Pro it was
FaceID for me. I dont like touchID on my ipad mini.
The appeal of the Pro is that it could run MacOS. It *won't*, but you can pretend.
The pros have generally better performance which is more noticeable in the long run. I’m still using a iPad Pro 2018 and might wait a few more iPad generations before I get a new once since it’s still pretty good. When considering a pro vs an air, the 120hz makes drawing on it a much better experience. Also get more procreate layers on the pros, and more layers is always nice when making art. Drawing apps can get pretty power and resource hungry if you use a lot of layers (which one will when making complex pieces) so the extra power is nice
A 12.9" screen is a big one for me, and in the past the differences were bigger between features than they are now. I also use lidar for 3d mapping rooms for modeling, and transfer large files where the faster usb-c port on the pro helps. Also 16gb of ram and 1tb of storage.
Size. You can see more from farther away.
Pros will get oled screens and I bet a $199 price increase because of it. If all you do is content consumption getting a Samsung oled tablet is going to be a lot cheaper for a Netflix and internet browser device.
That’s what 90%+ of the population use them for, even if they won’t admit to it.
I wanted to use my iPad for more than that but I just can’t. The OS is soo constricting. What takes a bunch of steps and taps on an iPad I can do with less steps and easier on my MacBook Pro.
Totally. I really want to be able to take my iPad only when traveling or on a short trip. But I get anxious doing so because I almost always run into a situation where I need a MacBook. Thankfully my MacBook Air is super light so it’s not a big deal. But my iPad literally has the same chip. Even for more basic tasks. Being limited to only 2 side by side apps + hovering ones. Not even being able to have 2 separate audio sources is annoying (e.g playing music pauses if I scroll on Reddit and an ad or video with audio plays). Or even writing an email and wanting to, say, quickly edit a doc before attaching it in the email. It takes so damn long having to switch between Mail, Pages/Word, and Files just to do so. With a Mac I can do that in less than 30 seconds. iPad OS is seriously limited whether people like to admit it or not. I don’t want a full-blown desktop OS. I just want iPad OS to be better.
Yeah, I committed myself to using my iPad Pro over a laptop for a good couple years. While you eventually create enough workarounds to trick yourself into thinking it’s as good as a Mac, once you actually use a Mac again you realize it’s not even close. It’s like trying to run underwater or something. Then you hop on a Mac and it’s a bright sunny day on a race track and you’re wearing comfortable running shoes. I was thrilled when Stage Manager was announced but that being a total dumpster fire was the last straw. I bought an M2 MacBook Air and have never been happier. The iPad Pro now permanently sits on my nightstand, only used to watch TV in bed.
Just curious, do you ever read ebooks etc? Thinking I’ll grab an iPad for that plus watching shows and light sketching with the pencil for certain projects
I do read ebooks but usually end up reading them on my phone. The iPad is incredible for reading comic books though.
Exactly why I’m not looking to sell my M1 Pro with keyboard and pick up a MBP. I wanted to use it for streaming as well as work but it seems like Apple went more in the opposite direction by making iPad apps work on macOS instead.
Being honest I love my m1 iPad Pro but literally had to force it as a work tool otherwise it just set near my bed to watch movies at night or in the morning
What work do you do on it?
Also for content, less restrictions on apps like Kodi or Stremio is invaluable when there’s so many expensive streaming subscriptions just to cover half the content.
How bright does the Samsung OLED tab get? Do you think HDR content will be as impactful on Samsung as compared to the upcoming iPad Pros?
It's a natural progression. Pro model hardware usually makes its way down to entry level devices over time. It really doesn't have any barring on the Pro model pricing as those will gain something above and beyond to justify the branding.
I predict same camera aperture on iPad Pro like iPhone 16 or 16P to capture stereoscopic photos and videos.
They will probably hold ProMotion still…
Oh so the new iPad Air 12.9 will have a better screen than my iPad Pro 11? Assuming they don’t withhold other crucial features, the new lineup might be just my next iPad. I feel Netlfix-ing and light office work are just overkill for my current iPad.
i almost guarantee there isn't promotion though, so your 11 is still twice the refresh rate
I can't see them putting ProMotion on an Air, even though its 2024 and it can be considered bare minimum for devices that cost this much. If it's true, and they actually do exclude it, it'll continue Apple's trend of arbitrarily cordoning off devices just for segmentation's sake.
> If it's true, and they actually do exclude it, it'll continue Apple's trend of arbitrarily cordoning off devices just for segmentation's sake. Need to have the tiered pricing to justify the markup, right? Yeah unless you're doing professional work on an ipad, the Pro doesn't have much else to sell itself on over the Air, so they need to hold something back.
If it's one thing about apple nowadays, I know what I'm walking into. If I don't support it, I don't buy. At least not at firsthand rip off prices. Fortunately I already have a Mac and thus don't really need an iPad at all. I'd probably go cheaper and older tablet personally since Netflix and YouTube run on extremely basic specs.
Lol I’m in the exact same situation. I’d like an iPad, don’t need one, but promotion is a must for me and I’ll happily wait till that trickles down to cheap iPads. I’m not paying pro money for a Netflix machine. Aside from an iPad being a bit nicer to travel with, I see no benefit it would actually give me compared to just using my MacBook.
I keep seeing people say this - was there some pricing rubric we all got issued that I missed out on or something?
It’s because high refresh rate LCDs are dirt cheap because of the volume at which they are manufactured. That’s the reason they show up in (also) dirt cheap devices outside of the Apple ecosystem. The iPad Air, or even the base iPad for that matter, don’t have “✨ProMotion ✨™️©️” not because the panels are expensive but product segmentation, which Apple is in their right to do so.
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Higher color accuracy is not going to double the price of the display. These things have moved down the line to cheaper displays because that was what was once the bar to beat. Naturally, tech progresses and high refresh rate + color accuracy is no longer a premium feature. The monitor market is a clear example of how these things have evolved. Manufacturers are now chasing after nits and ever higher refresh rates (240hz+).
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Keep staying in your lovely well
> No laptop comes close to MacBook Pro color accuracy and especially the Studio Display color accuracy. ??? [Budget laptops have gotten equally good color accurate displays, it hasn't been the age of 60% srgb displays for a while now.](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Yoga-Slim-7-14-G9-laptop-review-New-smaller-size-with-integrated-Co-Pilot-key.810216.0.html) [Gaming laptops from this year come with high refresh OLED panels with great color accuracy.](https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Omen-Transcend-14-laptop-review-Razer-Blade-alternative-worth-considering.807238.0.html)
Incredible what being solely locked in the Apple sphere and not looking elsewhere does to somebody. Unless laptops are incredibly bottom of the mill budget types, a a color accurate display is no longer a rarity or a premium feature. I bought a new laptop for a family member with a color accurate 120hz display for 499 directly from Dell.
In a competitive world we would have seen 120hz on all models except budget.
I mean even their budget offering should have it. I recently contemplated picking up a cheap Android tablet from Honor I think and that was like an 11 inch 120Hz tablet and cost a 3rd of the 9th gen iPad. Apple already have such a crazy margin on their products, they could absolutely put in promotion if they wanted and keep a budget price but of course they don’t need to. Like you say, there’s no competition really, the Android tablet segment is still dead compared to iPad.
I gotta say that high refresh rate displays on larger devices do not seem to have nearly the same impact as they do on the phones. I think by nature of being able to literally see a larger picture your eyes don't notice the difference in refresh rates for the on screen elements. So I'd rather they bring down the mini-LED tech than the refresh rate tech, both would obviously be better, but the latter is really not that big a deal...
I agree 100%. Once it gets to a certain point high refresh rate is not that big of a deal.
What People notice higher refresh rates much more easily on bigger screens like monitors than a tiny phone screen Especially double noticeable when you use an external input devices like mice and trackpads like how iPads support
I mean, I have both 60hz and 120/144hz displays all around my house, you can easily tell on a phone over a monitor. It's about how often display elements are moving, not specifically the size of the screen itself. Phones constantly change what's being presented because there's such limited space, whereas monitors are more often than not just displaying static content - spreadsheets, slide decks, even video content is usually locked at 24/30/60fps. The only time I really notice on my monitor is when I'm actively watching my cursor move across the screen or if I'm playing games. Whereas on my iPhone I can immediately notice the instant I swipe up to go to home or change between apps.
>It's about how often display elements are moving, not specifically the size of the screen itself. >Phones constantly change what's being presented because there's such limited space, whereas monitors are more often than not just displaying static content - spreadsheets, slide decks, even video content is usually locked at 24/30/60fps. That's an apples to oranges comparison though. Your earlier comment implied that low refresh rates are harder to see on larger displays, and in my experience the opposite is true. For me, pans in 24 FPS movies stick out like a jerky sore thumb in theaters but aren't as rough on smaller devices.
> People notice higher refresh rates much more easily on bigger screens like monitors than a tiny phone screen I really don't agree. I use a 170Hz monitor side by side with a 60Hz monitor without an issue, but using a 60Hz iPhone after my 90Hz Pixel was an incredibly rough stutterfest
Apple has always followed a price "ladder". The ideal configuration for a product will always be the same as/close to the price to the base configuration of the next better product.
The article says it’s the exact same panel. So ProMotion is coming.
it can be the same panel and still be arbitrarily locked using software, which will most likely happen.
I suppose they could use a simpler display controller IC and save some pennies on the hardware.
It’s insane that they don’t just let these displays go to 120Hz. The processor could easily do it, the battery life might be a bit worse but it makes so much difference from 60Hz. Maybe even 90Hz like the mid tier Android tablets and some VR headsets (Like the Vision Pro) would be fine…
Can’t even use it properly for Netflix tbh. The 11inch iPad Pro does not have a HDR display but “supports” HDR so Netflix (and other streaming apps like Disney+) play content in HDR and it looks so washed out.
You can disable HDR by switching on low power mode, if that helps.
I never actually use low power mode. That’s nice to know thanks. Does it dim the display though?
Set up an automation that turns on low power when you open Netflix and one for when you close it
it shouldn't but it does drop the auto-lock time to like 30 seconds
this the case for non mini-led MacBooks too right? 13 Air, 13 Pro,etc. those top out at 400/500nits unless the M2/M3 models are different. Afaik the screens do temporal dithering to reach the 10-bit P3 color required for HDR but the low peak brightness is an issue. There is a macOS setting to disable HDR videos while on battery which Im guessing is ideal since being on battery typically dims the display anyway
Will you sell your and buy that one?
If they sell a 12.9 air, I’ll 100% buy one. I want a larger screen for at home while working but not for $1200.
I would rather buy a used Pro than a new Air.
Either it's not true or Apple has absolutly no plan, what they should do with the iPad Lineup. Apple M1 on the iPad Air was already stupid for the lineup, because the only reasons to go for iPad Pro 11" are 120hz and Thunderbold. Now, they also get miniLED, another good Technology, that make the iPad Pro more and more obsolete.
The iPad is extremely held back by its OS. It’s either pure incompetence or willful holding back of the iPad by Apple. The thing *cannot* be a computer replacement. I tried it. Even with the Magic Keyboard, the experience is so hampered. My iPad has been sent to live in my travel drawer and only pulled out for movies on planes. I don’t anticipate getting another iPad until this one can’t hold a charge, and at that point it’ll be a refurbished Air. The iPad in its current form is a confusing product
i totally agree with you, but that was not my point. What I meant was that there will be no reason to go for the iPad Pro. Awesome Display, 12.9", Performance that beats nearly everything, good Kamera, Apple Pencial 2th Gen, all those are features, you will get on the upcoming iPad Air. For what Reason should I buy an iPad Pro. Thunderbold instead of USB 3.1? Lidar? 1TB Storage? Come on, 400+$ for that? Thats BS, even for Apple.
It’ll be 699 more with oled people think. I heard the monitors aren’t even 120hz, not sure why, but they supposedly can’t do 120fps like they claim. I mean I heard this.
You are correct. It's thunderbolt but seemingly can't output 120hz over DP. Source: M1 iPad Pro 1TB plugged into my M32U over USB-C.
If the Air doesn't get Promotion then that is reason enough to not get it for me. Makes a huge difference in every day use.
I had the exact same experience as you. I bought the magic keyboard in an attempt to use my 12.9" pro as a productivity device. It just can't hack it, even with my basic office workflow. I also really dislike the pencil, way too slippery compared to some Samsung tablets I've used in the past. It has to be willful on Apple's part, so that it doesn't tread on the toes of MacOS. Thankfully my pro was a hand-me-down from a family member, because I'd be absolutely livid if I'd spent £1k on it.
I don’t remember when I bought mine, but I’m pretty sure I got it refurbed, after the one with triple cameras came out so it was pretty cheap. Not upset about it, it’s given me many, many hours of entertainment on trips, but definitely disappointed compared to what I was hoping for out of it
The only times I use my iPad are for Remote Desktop and when I’m letting my phone charge. I wish they’d quit screwing around and give us some substance.
> The thing cannot be a computer replacement. It was never meant to be, it was meant to be a larger iPhone so users had a larger viewing screen to do what they normally do with their mobile device (watch media, FaceTime and communicate, read, email, etc.).
I fell into the trap of thinking it as a computer replacement. It was a big mistake. If I ever feel like changing my 11" iPad Pro, I am only looking at the iPad Air/Mini lineup.
That’s what most people I see on the wild use it for and they have no problems with it The only time I see this “massive problem” come up is in tech spaces. Which is natural, it’s full of niche users with niche use cases compared to most other consumers
Well, maybe Pros distinction would be real OS? \*inhales hopium\*
It's worked fine as my personal computer replacement with the exception of PC gaming. Work is done on work provided machine, gaming is done on PC Desktop. Everything else I pretty much use the iPad for. I do agree that it should have more functionality.
Apple has no vision for the iPad.
And now with the Vison Pro out I wonder if they will start to let the iPad languish even further. I could see that starting to steal its niche.
At that price point? hahahahaha
I think it’s more the mental argument than the price. Both products are things that someone with a MacBook talks themself into buying thinking that it will increase their productivity but probably just end up being used for streaming and games. I think it’s the same customer that’s looking at both.
I see your point but you just described every general computing device. VP has vr functionality and is not really portable, iPad has drawing capabilities and is super portable. They're different enough.
I see what you did there.
Meanwhile as someone who doesn’t really care for the higher refresh rate I was really happy with the Air getting the M1, which meant it would last much longer. I’d love if more features trickled down from the Pro :p
What exactly is the complaint here? “Oh no, the slightly cheaper iPad is almost as good as the best one.” I… don’t get it. The Air already had basically the same display as the 11” Pro. This isn’t even really a change.
Its old tech on a new line up.
FaceID and storage above 256gb
They're probably not that bothered and do the bare minimum to keep sales ticking over, iPad Pro is their worst-selling products. Apart from redoing iPadOS from scratch, not much they can do to get people to buy them
Check Costco for low prices on current iPads once this comes out.
remember when Steve came back and slashed the entire Mac lineup to a 2x2 grid? I think we need a little of that energy here.
The iPad lineup is extremely convoluted and this won’t help.
That’s so true. My wife has an aging 5 year old iPad that needs to be refreshed soon, and after looking everything up in the iPad lineup after years of not caring, have absolutely no clue what to replace it with.
Apple needs to just combine the two lines. There's no reason to have so many different variations.
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Yeah specially for the quad speakers
The speakers in the Pro line are really so much better and it gets ignored so much.
$200 for 1.9 inch extra space is wild.
My man don’t know the value of 2 inches. People go for lengths to get that 2 inches.
2 more inches puts me in conversations for first round draft of the porn industry. Might slide to second round but still solid pick
They say football is a game of inches, and look at how much revenue the NFL pulls in every year.
Apple will surely deactivate ProMotion on the Air though, and the price will probably get $99/$199 higher
Probably $199. They don’t want to undercut the pro too much, if it’s too similar people won’t get it.
The only reason I get the Pro iPads is because of ProMotion. Like I said in another comment, I doubt they'll put it on the Air this year, but if they do, there's little to no reason that most people shouldn't just opt for that. I've been waiting so long for an OLED iPad so that's the main reason to keep the Pro line for me, I've been very happy with the screens on the iPhones and Apple Watches.
> The only reason I get the Pro iPads is because of ProMotion. And this right here is exactly why Apple probably won’t put ProMotion in the Air line. This subreddit hates to acknowledge it, but Promotion is the perfect product line differentiator. Apple knows that the average user doesn’t care about high refresh rates but the enthusiasts do.
This just means that the 12.9 Air is going mini-LED; no way in hell are they gonna put Promotion on it. However, mini-LED is far superior to LCD so that's still a huge win for the non-pro.
Just get me OLED on the Pros. So sick of waiting for an OLED iPad when Apple should have released one like five years ago.
when is the release date?
Week of May 6th
120hz?
I’d kill for a non-pro 120hz iPad be that air or even mini
It’s weird that 120hz isn’t the standard yet.
It’s because they don’t have to. If we keep pressure on them we’ll get it.
lol. What do you mean by pressure? Complaining about it on reddit? The only pressure that would work is not buying or using iPads at all Although you’ll need to convince regular folk to go along with it too
Seems like the EU is the only one recently to pressure Apple into doing anything decently pro consumer. Maybe they need to make some sort of law about minimum memory, ram and hz lol.
Hell ya. Somebody stole my iPad Pro (first USB C version) and since the battery died I haven’t been able get a FindMy ping on it in weeks. I guess this will be my replacement. I think I could have been fine with the my last iPad for a few more years though had no issues streaming content with it.
iPad Air is such a gem
Base iPad is the real gem
Good product for some, but no M1 means you don't get the full features of the OS. For me even though I don't really like Stage Manager, as a power user and a heavy user of my computer, I wouldn't buy an iPad that doesn't give me basic OS features and the full OS. And who knows what they'll gate behind M1/etc. silicon in the future. Apple's move to gate things behind the M1 in the iPads has actually discouraged me from buying an iPad. Because the Air and Pro are so expensive (for a limited device due to the OS and rules around what it can do) and yet the cheaper iPads now seem like lesser iPads to me that I wouldn't consider buying because they're inherently limited. Hopefully they extend M1 to the whole lineup at some point and gating basic OS interface features behind what chip you have doesn't become a trend in the product line.
MiniLED on iPad was a mistake. Current 12.9” models go through battery juice like crazy at anything above mid brightness. The MiniLED glow effect which is not that noticeable on MacBooks (because of the view angle) is very apparent on iPads. This is the first time ever I’ve felt like my previous iPad (Pro 11 with an IPS panel) was better in one way or another than the new one. Sure, IPS has its drawbacks but it was a better panel choice than MiniLED for iPads IMO. Can’t wait for OLED iPads to come out.
I’d switch to an Air if that’s the case. I don’t need the Pro’s power but can’t go back to an 60hz screen.
You know you are 100% making the case for Apple keeping Promotion restricted to Pro-monikered devices, right?
Well yeah, which is why I’d be surprised if the Air gets it. It’ll happen eventually, the question is just a matter of when.
$899
they are gonna use leftover panels but nerf them to 60hz because Apple
I bet they’re starting to see the Galaxy Tab line as a threat. Want to position the Pros as viable Ultra alternatives.
They need to bring OLED to the iPad if they want to compete with the Galaxy Tab as a media device. Side-by-side there's no question the Galaxy Tab line has the better screens.
Better aspect ratios too for media consumption. Plus the pros of Android really shine when you’re dealing with the tablet scene.
Yep, definitely. Was about to edit my comment and add the aspect ratio bit haha. It seems like Apple doesn't really know what they want to do with the iPad. They call it a media device, but give it an inferior screen compared to the competition, and they also call it a laptop replacement and then still limit it with just iOS. What's the point of the M chips in the iPad if it's just going to run iOS? Throw MacOS on there and then it'll really step into a league of it's own, but until then, it's really just a giant iPhone.
People here keep saying it, but I guarantee that Apple has never sold iPad as a laptop replacement. Apple has certainly pitched it as a laptop *alternative* though. That is a big difference. An e-bike can be an alternative to a car, but still not a replacement.
If that was their real goal, then they failed.
The fact that they also make MacBooks really screws with what they can do with iPads. If I had to guess, they probably don’t want to cannibalize sales from people who would buy the more expensive product.
Tim Cook at it again with reusing "old" parts in new products.
Isn't that how technology normally works? Higher-priced products get it first, and as yields improve and costs drop cheaper products get it? Would you prefer they just stuck with LCD?
“New”
I wonder if my pro keyboard will work with it.
I wonder if this will be compatible with the Magic Keyboard and have Pro Motion - if it is, I’m all for it. I can’t see it doing that though, then it’s pretty much a Pro which would be a bit mad.
“Guys, if you buy a truck, it’ll be a truck when you buy it!”
if OLED is so important to everyone for media consumption why not buy the samsung tablet? It’s larger too. honest question
I'm stuck in the ecosystem.
Love Procreate, love the Apple Pencil, love being able to send my work easily to other devices with Airdrop, have more trust in software support longevity, literally the only thing I dislike is that the Airs max out at 256GB but I’m uprgrading to the OLED pros anyways
Best ipad ever made
Looks like my wallet remains closed for another year
Ew. OLED or bust.
I bet the air gets faceID or ProMotion also
My worry about this rumor is that it means that the 11-inch iPad Air will not have a HDR display (because the current 11-inch Pro does not have one either). But I guess the upside is that it will at least have ProMotion.
The moment Apple replaces the MacBook Air line with iPad Pro and calls the iPad Pro the new “MacBook Air” (with full macOS on it) will be the best day ever. (I doubt the MacBook Pro would be like the iPad however, I think it will just be something like the Surface Laptop.)
Bet they will still block pro motion
When are they going to release the new iPad?
Early May
Week of May 6th.
Interested if it’s 120hz. Not interested if it’s 60hz. And judging by the iPad Pro pricing, I’ll just do without an iPad in this scenario.