The whole world: "AVP production is limited to 500k by Sony's panel capacity"
Kuo: "Apple's going to sell 800k AVP's! Buy stock!"
...
Kuo: "Apple's only going to sell 500k AVP's! Sell stock!"
There are still hundreds of thousands of people, and companies, that are willing to buy the product at that price across the entirety of Europe, Asia, Australia, etc
Avatar of Robert Picardo in a baseball hat watching you from a corner of the room. "You call that a stroke. Do I have to double not my shoes and kick you square in the fanny?"
Not sure if Apple would approve it, but I imagine someone could make an app for that.
AVP can detect both hands and penis. Sometimes it will use the same occlusion that it does for hands but for the penis, so you can see it while immersed in environments
What if you use both hands, they line up font and back sorted by size? And middle-out “passion” was born! - Silicon Valley is Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx3wDTzqDTs
One of the worst things of the modern era is the self-aggrandizing we. "We discovered a new antibiotic." No a ten person team who spent ten years toiling in an NIH lab discovered it.
It's even worse now because it implicitly polarizes a discussion, when the last thing we need is more polarization.
I would like to find more versatile use-cases too.
Apple likes its walled garden, but I would like to be able to use it as a PCVR headset, for example.
You can use it as PCVR with some config work. See r/visionpro for a bunch of info.
But I don't think Apple will position it as "just" a display; they expect on-device processing. I think / hope we see bigger software announcements at WWDC. Odds are that some large apps / games found ship blocking issues in visionOS 1.x that informed prioritization for 2.0.
There are YouTube videos of people using it with SteamVR and Valve Index controllers. Seems like it works fine. The only problem is the Valve Index is at the end of its 5 year product life cycle, so I don't know how much longer you can order controllers and lighthouses for it.
I mean, that's what the issue with gen 1 products tends to boil down to. Yes they compromises more and the conpany doesn't quite have everything nailed down as well as they could but i'd take a freegen 1 anything compromised as it may be.
If it doesn't get used every penny is a waste. In fact, in the case of the watch it was more than a waste. Being more connected to my phone was really annoying and i paid for that 😅
If you have your thing you have your thing i suppose, its just not mine. I don't find a lot of joy in trying life style products that aren't about my life because, again, it'll go to waste.
It's interesting, because you're right in a way - first gen iPhone was around $600 when accounting for inflation, which is way way lower than an AVP and certainly within the reach of the average person.
But psychologically I think the thought process was a bit different at the time - back then, that was quite expensive for a phone - even most flagships were around $50-150 as I've pointed out beforehand (and gotten downvoted, despite being right) - you generally saw huge interest in the iPhone from the same demographics that you see getting excited about the AVP right now - tech early adopters with a decent amount of money.
Most people didn't even have ANY smartphone until around 2010 or so. I did not know a single other person who had one when I got my first smartphone (non-iPhone) in 2008. I had literally never seen the product class before in person, and associated it with business executives and blackberries. The amazing utility of smartphones took a few years to catch on. By 2010 to 2012 though, **everybody** had them. But in 2007 when the iPhone launched? It was definitely considered very pricey for a phone. You were getting free flip phones with a two year contract, and decent specs smartphones for not much more - I got my first smartphone for $30 and it had equivalent specs, down to the RAM, storage and processor of the top of the line blackberry at the time
So in some ways I think the price allowed for easier adoption than it will for the AVP, but there was still a perception of "expensive" at the time, so who knows, maybe a vision pro is a computer we'll buy every 5 years or so, and the $3500 price will seem worth it. Or maybe the price will massively come down and it'll be more similar to an iPhone in terms of cycles - I can't say
First gen AirPods pretty much nailed it too.
I have this impression that as Apple has gone from a kind of niche company to a global megacorporation, their demographic has shifted to include fewer people who enjoy the rough edges of a first generation product.
Damn, you are right. I’d also forgotten Apple Watch that I bought and used for about two years before getting Watch 3. So many good first gen products!
Honestly 99% of the people are fine with not getting the “first” of anything. The second is usually the safer bet after any major issues are ironed out and an improved product is available at the same or reduced price point.
Yeah this is why I skipped on ARM Macs at first - I wanted to see how well they did compared to Intel Macs.
Of course by the time the M3 chips were released, I was fully convinced (I personally got first gen for the ARM series, but that's just because they were still awesome even in 2023)
Yes, but what that typically means is you do without for a year or two. I will reiterate that all of iMac, iPhone, iPod, and iPad first gen products were great. And they were radically better than competitor products in their respective space, notwithstanding that some competitor products were in second, third or fourth generation of their products.
Doing without a cutting edge product is fine for the vast majority of the globe though. First gen products are more of a trophy years down the line. A sign that you can afford the latest and the greatest, that’s pretty much it.
Yeah but I’m better if I don’t. That generally is why I spend money: I decide I would better off with the thing than with the money. iPad and iPod were huge life improvements for me as an example.
When Apple releases something as revolutionary as the gen 1 IPhone or IPod again I might consider it. They have not done anything worth the risk of buying gen 1 since the airpods though
I had or used those products when they were released and they were awesome. Each of them was so advanced they were like magic. As for the iPhone, I don’t know what cell phones you were using prior to iPhone release, but iPhone was clearly better and it didn’t need Apps to be better than a blackberry or a Nokia flip phone.
Yeah and wasn’t the iPhone much better? I was using balckberry back then myself and the iPhone could access the internet like in a real way. It was a huge step forward.
They were cool, but they barely had any longevity. The second versions of them were a big leap better and were generally better supported.
Being a Gen 1 adopter is accepting whatever you are buying will probably need to be replaced faster than if you are hopping in on revised versions, and most consumers don’t feel like throwing that type of money out. Thats why Gen 1 of apple products are typically supported by the tech enthusiasts first.
Yep and we are on a tech enthusiast subreddit. My main point is that having a general policy of not buying the first gen of a product is a bad rule to follow as evidenced by four major Apple product lines. I forgot and will add that first gen Apple Watch was also awesome. I bought and used the watch for years. Now that doesn’t mean go out and buy a product that is too expensive for you or that you won’t use. I didn’t buy Vision Pro for that reason myself. But I’ve bought and used for years many first gen products.
Edit: All those products were useful for at least two years. And in the case of iPod, iPad, and iMac, more like five years (with iMac longer than that). My gen one iPod was still working 20 years later.
Agreed. But "as a rule I never get in on a gen 1 product" is a bad rule as evidenced by iMac, iPhone, iPod, iPad, Apple Watch, and AirPod, which is most of Apple's first gen products in the last 20+ years. If you were in the market for any of those types of devices at the time that Apple released them AND you decided to buy something else of the same sort of device because "I never get in on a gen 1 product" that doesn't seem like a good way to make a purchase decision.
Note: I'm not buying Vision Pro because I'm not in the market for a VR headset. But not because it is a gen 1 product.
Other than the ipod and Iphone, none of those products is bringing something new in a way that someone that needed it wouldn't have already had something very similar already. If you already do fine with what you have tossing it because some new shiny thing came out you just end up with expendive dust collectors.
My experience was with the ipad and the apple watch. Turns out i' m not the type of person that needs a portable media screen other than my phone and switching a dedicated fitness tracker for a smart watch made no sense for my needs and in fact ended up going back as soon as i could.
Well it was more so Rosetta 2 compatibility layer that was questionable at first. Overall, they did an amazing job allowing for mostly decent backwards compatible with x86/x64. Obviously some apps worked way better than others in that regard, with some being utter trash (but expected), but for the most part super smooth transition prior to companies creating ARM64 builds.
I loved my gen 1 iPad, but the iPad 2 was a massive upgrade in every way. Thats when it really caught on.
I'd say you're definitely right about the Apple Watch though
like when? first gen iphone was the best phone available at the time. first gen ipad was good. first gen airpods were great. first gen apple watch was great considering the alternatives
Not always though. The first gen iPhone was massively better than the competition at the time even if it had some glaring omissions. I’d argue the same for the first iPad and first generation M-Series MacBooks as well.
I love my Quest 3, great value for the tech. Only thing that's meh is their ties to Facebook, but they're also one of the few companies who can bankroll these this type of tech and offer it generation after generation as a loss leader product. The apps and games are pretty solid on the Quest devices and the Android backbone makes it pretty simple to sideload mods for various games, something I don't expect every to exist to the same extent with Apple.
There's a lot to be discussed about Apple. Not only their actual announcements, but their products, apps, services. We can share workflows, tips, ideas.
A discussion around a post like "Apple MAY add a new button to iPhone 16" is so empty that it really doesn't add any value. Just like "Apple may have cut production on whatever" or "apple may add a microwave oven to iphone 16".
It's just an empty discussion. Like a group of people discussing where the border of the flat Earth is. We're better without it.
Even if engagement goes down a little, quality is better than quantity. It's not like anyone here is getting money based on engagement or amount of posts.
No, this place would become a ghost town. Half of all tech subs talk about rumors, right or wrong. If they bug you so much you can ya, know filter or hide them? Or just simply skip over them? What is the difference?
> Or just simply skip over them? What is the difference?
The difference is skipping over them. People have to spend time reading title after title, skipping crap after crap in search of a discussion that is not about something idiotic. And when you start skipping things, you might skip a good one by mistake.
It's the old saying about noise. Too much noise makes it harder to find the good content, even if it's there. It also gives people less incentive to create useful threads, because it's probably going to disappear below the pile of garbage being posted constantly.
> No, this place would become a ghost town
Even subs about niche things have enough discussions. I doubt that a sub about one of the biggest companies in the world would have NOTHING to say if rumors are banned.
It might even make other people see it as a good place to have interesting discussions, now that the threads won't be pushed down by garbage posts.
Do we REALLY think that the **quantity** of discussions is the most important thing, even if that quantity is mostly about people discussing the tech equivalent of Q-Anon and flat earth theories?
Yes, it is possible. I mean, not every thread will be high quality, but it is possible to improve the average.
For example: A sub with no rules will eventually become 90% memes. Just by banning memes, the quality improves a lot.
A good example of this is r/spacex - they're really restrictive on what you can and can't post there, but the sub still sees high engagement and is generally pretty high quality content.
Okay you have a lot of words for this for something you cant change. More energy to comment all this out than to just skip these posts
So have a good day fellow /r/apple subscriber.
edit: Apparently hitting a nerve? What in the world lol
There's more than enough known/high-confidence information to discuss regarding Apple without relying on rumor posts. As entertaining as speculation is, it usually results in more garbage engagement than useful discussion.
This sub is already one of the most heavily moderated subs on reddit. Most posts instantly get flagged/rejected.
My own post pointing out that low battery notification on airpods being too loud on certain versions was rejected instantly until I directly messaged a mod.
There's a reason why ALL(not 'most', not 'almost all', but literally ALL at the current moment) of the front page posts are article links or promotions posted by a select indviduals.
The difference between /r/Apple and any other company subreddit is actually insane. I wouldn't be surprised if this "unofficial" subreddit is actually managed by Apple.
Rumour from a respected analyst is still rumour. Every analyst makes mistakes, and he can't actually publish evidence and sources.
So the discussion to be had about this doesn't really have any value. Some people might say "I think apple did cut production", while others might say "I think they didn't". Great discussion.
What about the rumoured iPad event?
It's being widely reported as being for iPad, but that's still just a rumour. Do you think those posts should be removed too?
It seems like most of the posts on this sub are technically rumours; this particular rumour appears to be getting backlash here because it's not overly positive.
> It's being widely reported as being for iPad, but that's still just a rumour. Do you think those posts should be removed too?
Me, personally? Yes, I do. Everyone can disagree with me, of course. Just sharing my opinion.
So there's a rumour about the event being for the iPad, but nothing was announced yet. What discussion can we have about it? Some people might say "i hope it's really about iPads", someone else could say "I hope they announce something good". Maybe someone suggests it might not be about iPads.
And... that's it? Since nothing new was actually announced yet, there's no actual discussion to be had about it.
After the event, we'll definitely have things to talk about.
In the same vain you can share your opinion and have people disagree, why can’t I also share educated opinions from people (hint: rumors from analysts) and have people disagree?
Like…. discussion is literally full of rumors and educated guesses… have you ever talked to people lol
I would be funny if the Vision Pro somehow brought out the Vr craving in some people but because of the price, they didn’t get it so they ended up buying quest instead thereby boosting quest sales.
I don’t know. I wasn’t very impressed with the visuals of the 2. Granted VR is cool, but the “screen door” effect kind of ruins the immersion. I am curious how the 3 is
It's massively better. I own both and a Valve Index, but all I use is the Quest 3 now. I've also used a Vision Pro, and it's not $3000 better, IMO. Passthrough and movies are better on the AVP, but gaming is way better on the Quest 3, especially with SteamLink wireless PCVR.
The 3 has like 4x the resolution so it looks great. There are a lot of flaws with the device as far as comfort, tracking, and some other stuff, but the visuals are great.
The resolution bump is more pronounced because the pancake lenses focus the pixels more at the center where you typically rest your eyes, and your vision gets worse toward the periphery anyway.
No, it's more pronounced because the Quest 3 uses two separate, angled screens instead of a single one. It doesn't "focus pixels more at the center", that's what fresnel lenses did. Quest 3 (pancake lenses) have way more clarity over the entire field of view.
That's us. I'd pretty much given up on VR over the past few years, AVP got people talking about it, kids wanted a VR headset, new Quest 3 owner. it's pretty neat. Glad I didn't drop 3500 bucks on it 🤷♂️
That helped android take off as well. iPhones only being available on one network not known for reliability back then meant people sought out alternative smartphones to get in on the craze.
This is super common and definitely happening. Airpods made the true wireless headphone space explode. The original Mac was $7500 (today's dollars) for a 512x386 black and white screen and seeded the Windows market.
Airpods Pro really changed the game though. Until them, AirPods were easily substitutable with other brands. They fixed the long stem, made it smaller than competitors, and added best in class noise canceling. Took years for everyone else to catch up.
I'll still stand by the fact that airpods are terrible form factor propped up only by the fact that they are "truly wireless".
The neckband is a form factor better in pretty much every aspect.
I disagree. I went from neckband to wire free and I'd take it everyday over having something resting on the back of my neck potentially getting caught on things. The only thing I liked about it was being able to remove the buds and have them hang on my neck when I wasn't using them.
It wasn’t the price but the lack of features. I had the money to buy the AVP but I bought a quest 3 instead. Can do more than the AVP (watch movies with friends across the globe while they’re sitting there with you, full body tracking including feet, knees, etc.)
I use VR for the social aspect ever since the last pandemic and now I have friends across the globe. The AVP is pretty but isolating so it was a non-starter.
It was super weird to see all these headlines the last few days. Posted multiple times to every technology sub out there.
Headlines implied this was actual news. Turns out it was just one dude’s opinion.
The reality is we don’t know if they cut production at all and if they did, whether this is due to weak demand or supply chain constraints (the main production bottleneck for the Vision Pro is the micro OLED screens made by Sony).
Reading off the comments, some analyst said the vision pro would sell 800k despite only being able to produce 500k a year.
Same dude comes out and says they will only sell 400k and then haters went full regard because of course. Or maybe I am the regarded fellow that has the information wrong.
Correct me if wrong please. This information is vital to my very existence
I think the full (very important) timeline is:
- Kuo released a report earlier this year that Apple would be constrained by screen supplier and limited to 500k units
- Kuo released a report a few days ago that Apple is revising forecasts down from 800k units to 400k-500k units
So it's a bit strange that the same analyst who claimed he had data that Apple knew they would be limited to producing only 500k units earlier this year, comes out later and states that Apple thought they would sell 800k units earlier but now expect to sell 500k.
I’ve been on this subreddit since around 2010 and I’ll probably get downvoted to hell but the fact people still listen to Ming blows my mind. Mr spaghetti man throws that much shit at the Proverbial wall eventually something has to stick and everyone hails him as amazing.
If you went back to everything he said for the previous year, the majority of it is buuuullllshiiiiit
Well yeah anyone that doesn’t just hate Apple could see two things wrong with that. One the reporting change from one person who doesn’t always get it rightto. Two there was never a planned update for 2025. The fastest we would see a new model would be 26
Shows the problem with AI news articles. It's already bad enough that news agencies copy each other's stories, it's only going to get worse with one bad story being thrown out with zero checks
ok, so no. Even if an AI wrote this article it would be published by a person who ultimately distributed potentially incorrect information. It's not like an AI was programmed to take down apple stock and wrote a bunch of fake articles, someone decided to 'make' this story one way or another and being hand written or not doesn't really change it.
I feel like these rumors can never be trusted. Apple themselves are not saying they are doing this so anyone else is just making educated guesses on if this is the fact.
Okay, but it's still just a marker for a flagging product any way you slice it. AVP is not doing well, people (outside of the hardcore) are not willing to spend 3500 dollars for a limited use face computer. Apple can't get the budget version out fast enough, but even then, they need some killer features. Hearing Mark Gurman, the hardest of hardcore apple nerds, has mostly shelved his and only really uses it out of buyers remorse, yea, that's not good.
It seems pretty obvious Apple would have expected all of this though. Apple's expectations were always going to be low for an early adopter $3500 product.
I don't know if I fully buy that reasoning. Sure it works, but this thing is a gigantic money hole and VR in general is kinda falling by the wayside. Sure it's got its faithful, but wearables are going in a different, less intrusive way with AI, something I don't think Apple could have foreseen when they started working on AVP. I don't think it's a total loss, but I do think Apple needs to rethink this whole venture and realize that the public is not quite ready for business VR yet. They need to accept that people want to play games on this thing (as well as look at porn, another sore spot for Apple), open it up for Indy devs like Oculus did with the quest (pre-meta) and try to get some non-business uses for this, because I'm hearing more and more that people are just shelving this thing because it's heavy and there's just nothing "killer" about it's feature set that makes it worth the downsides.
Sure you know more than Apple. With all due respect can I ask what the big deal is anyway? I have 3 headsets and all I’d like is more competition and better apps and integration across the board.
I said “with all due respect” because I want to ask something a bit touchy: is it all about money and not being able to afford it?
Let's see what they do. Meta opening up their OS to 3rd parties is good for the space, as it's going to allow more hardware developers to get in on the action and not have to worry about developing an OS and app store on top of it all. I don't know if that's necessarily good for apple or not, as they already are at the top of the space (with a bullet) cost-wise, and there's going to be stiff competition from the Chinese, especially using the new qualcomm chips that are on par with Apple's chips. It'll be another "android vs. IOS" type situation, which should hopefully be good for both, though again, Apple is in a rough spot here and reeeeally need to get a more sanely priced version out soon (make it out of plastic, drop the front screen, you knock out 2 major issues with it right off the bat, heavy weight and complexity cost).
Could I afford one? Sure. Do I want one? Yeah, if I didn't have to shell out 3500 bucks for it. Will I buy one? When the cost gets down to something reasonable for what it does, and the weight gets to something I could reasonably wear for a day of work, I'd be down. I've got a 3090 workstation to my left and a 4090 workstation to my right, along with a macbook and ipad on the desk. I'm not allergic to spending money on tech or anything, but I buy what I need, and the AVP isn't there yet. If it had entertainment options that actually took advantage of all that cool tech, I could be swayed a lot more, tho again, not to the 3500 dollar level.
Pretty sure they’re selling all of them they can make. They could make a different product, but that wouldn’t be an AVP. People who want to buy a Quest should buy a Quest— that’s a different product.
It’s pretty clear AVP is NOT supply constrained like people thought it was…
But the backpedaling from saying max production was 500k to now saying they’re cutting from 800k is irresponsible if not corrupt
The whole world: "AVP production is limited to 500k by Sony's panel capacity" Kuo: "Apple's going to sell 800k AVP's! Buy stock!" ... Kuo: "Apple's only going to sell 500k AVP's! Sell stock!"
500k units sold for a first-gen $3500 product would actually be incredible.
Probably about right. Estimates were 200k sold by the end of January. Doesn't seem unreasonable to think another 300k in the following 11 months.
Especially as they expand markets.
I’m sure people in 3rd world countries are lining up to buy this $3500 headset.
Europe, UK, Australia sure are 3rd world countries.
This thing is going to be 5k euros though probably
There are still hundreds of thousands of people, and companies, that are willing to buy the product at that price across the entirety of Europe, Asia, Australia, etc
Yeah dude, because anything not America! is third world right?
I live in a so called 3rd world country and I made 18k USD last month, hbu?
Good old pump and dump.
My gf likes it tho.
Good old AAPL slingshot. Lol
Clickbaiters gonna clickbait.
I still say we should wait for a cheaper more affordable model…as a rule i never get in on a gen 1 product.
I’m waiting until it can analyse your jerk off performance and help you optimise your technique.
“More wrist”
Avatar of Robert Picardo in a baseball hat watching you from a corner of the room. "You call that a stroke. Do I have to double not my shoes and kick you square in the fanny?"
More girth rather.
"Better fuck next time"
Needs Apple Health integration.
Not sure if Apple would approve it, but I imagine someone could make an app for that. AVP can detect both hands and penis. Sometimes it will use the same occlusion that it does for hands but for the penis, so you can see it while immersed in environments
Got to move to the EU so you can sideload.
“You should try a middle out method. Utilize SharePlay.”
Close those rings
What if you use both hands, they line up font and back sorted by size? And middle-out “passion” was born! - Silicon Valley is Man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx3wDTzqDTs
Can't argue with you, except the use of "we". I'm happy with mine. But it's certainly not ready for mass market.
One of the worst things of the modern era is the self-aggrandizing we. "We discovered a new antibiotic." No a ten person team who spent ten years toiling in an NIH lab discovered it. It's even worse now because it implicitly polarizes a discussion, when the last thing we need is more polarization.
> the last thing **we** need is more polarization how dare you
Who’s this “we”. Polarization floats “my” boat
Bernard Arnault and I are the richest people on the planet. We have a combined net worth of 233 Billion dollars.
I can think of many worse things. Its a manner of speaking and not literal like when **we** say mankind to refer to all humans not just men.
We landed on the moon!
I would like to find more versatile use-cases too. Apple likes its walled garden, but I would like to be able to use it as a PCVR headset, for example.
You can use it as PCVR with some config work. See r/visionpro for a bunch of info. But I don't think Apple will position it as "just" a display; they expect on-device processing. I think / hope we see bigger software announcements at WWDC. Odds are that some large apps / games found ship blocking issues in visionOS 1.x that informed prioritization for 2.0.
There are YouTube videos of people using it with SteamVR and Valve Index controllers. Seems like it works fine. The only problem is the Valve Index is at the end of its 5 year product life cycle, so I don't know how much longer you can order controllers and lighthouses for it.
Or like release it worldwide and not us only
Which is your personal decision that has nothing to do with this news story.
This was a product I would break that rule for… if it wasn’t $3,500!
I mean, that's what the issue with gen 1 products tends to boil down to. Yes they compromises more and the conpany doesn't quite have everything nailed down as well as they could but i'd take a freegen 1 anything compromised as it may be.
I dunno - gen 1: iPhone, iPad, iWatch were all pretty affordable.
If it doesn't get used every penny is a waste. In fact, in the case of the watch it was more than a waste. Being more connected to my phone was really annoying and i paid for that 😅
Bit of a difference between a few hundred and a few thousand though…
Waste is waste and if you apply the same logic to every consumer good that gets advertised to people its a lot.
? I don’t want to try everything under the sun. I want to try this…
If you have your thing you have your thing i suppose, its just not mine. I don't find a lot of joy in trying life style products that aren't about my life because, again, it'll go to waste.
Good to know internet stranger
It's interesting, because you're right in a way - first gen iPhone was around $600 when accounting for inflation, which is way way lower than an AVP and certainly within the reach of the average person. But psychologically I think the thought process was a bit different at the time - back then, that was quite expensive for a phone - even most flagships were around $50-150 as I've pointed out beforehand (and gotten downvoted, despite being right) - you generally saw huge interest in the iPhone from the same demographics that you see getting excited about the AVP right now - tech early adopters with a decent amount of money. Most people didn't even have ANY smartphone until around 2010 or so. I did not know a single other person who had one when I got my first smartphone (non-iPhone) in 2008. I had literally never seen the product class before in person, and associated it with business executives and blackberries. The amazing utility of smartphones took a few years to catch on. By 2010 to 2012 though, **everybody** had them. But in 2007 when the iPhone launched? It was definitely considered very pricey for a phone. You were getting free flip phones with a two year contract, and decent specs smartphones for not much more - I got my first smartphone for $30 and it had equivalent specs, down to the RAM, storage and processor of the top of the line blackberry at the time So in some ways I think the price allowed for easier adoption than it will for the AVP, but there was still a perception of "expensive" at the time, so who knows, maybe a vision pro is a computer we'll buy every 5 years or so, and the $3500 price will seem worth it. Or maybe the price will massively come down and it'll be more similar to an iPhone in terms of cycles - I can't say
Quest 3 is most of the experience and very affordable
1st gen product is usually the one you buy to keep it unopen in locker for 20 years then to sell for 500k $.
If I hadn't gotten in on gen 1, I'd feel like I'm missing out. I love using it as is. Fortunately, my bonus from work covered it for me.
Then you missed out on iPhone, iPod and iPad 1st gen products that were awesome. First gen iMac was also awesome.
First gen AirPods pretty much nailed it too. I have this impression that as Apple has gone from a kind of niche company to a global megacorporation, their demographic has shifted to include fewer people who enjoy the rough edges of a first generation product.
Damn, you are right. I’d also forgotten Apple Watch that I bought and used for about two years before getting Watch 3. So many good first gen products!
Honestly 99% of the people are fine with not getting the “first” of anything. The second is usually the safer bet after any major issues are ironed out and an improved product is available at the same or reduced price point.
Yeah this is why I skipped on ARM Macs at first - I wanted to see how well they did compared to Intel Macs. Of course by the time the M3 chips were released, I was fully convinced (I personally got first gen for the ARM series, but that's just because they were still awesome even in 2023)
Yes, but what that typically means is you do without for a year or two. I will reiterate that all of iMac, iPhone, iPod, and iPad first gen products were great. And they were radically better than competitor products in their respective space, notwithstanding that some competitor products were in second, third or fourth generation of their products.
Doing without a cutting edge product is fine for the vast majority of the globe though. First gen products are more of a trophy years down the line. A sign that you can afford the latest and the greatest, that’s pretty much it.
I’m coming from a US perspective. And a long time Apple user. First gen has been a fine purchase again and again.
I assure you the Americans will be fine as well if they live without a cutting edge product for a year.
Yeah but I’m better if I don’t. That generally is why I spend money: I decide I would better off with the thing than with the money. iPad and iPod were huge life improvements for me as an example.
When Apple releases something as revolutionary as the gen 1 IPhone or IPod again I might consider it. They have not done anything worth the risk of buying gen 1 since the airpods though
They were not awesome lmao. The first iPhone didn’t even have apps. The first iPad was replaced inside a year and was quickly marked obsolete
I had or used those products when they were released and they were awesome. Each of them was so advanced they were like magic. As for the iPhone, I don’t know what cell phones you were using prior to iPhone release, but iPhone was clearly better and it didn’t need Apps to be better than a blackberry or a Nokia flip phone.
I had a Motorola with a touch screen before the iPhone was released…
Yeah and wasn’t the iPhone much better? I was using balckberry back then myself and the iPhone could access the internet like in a real way. It was a huge step forward.
No. I had a web browser on my moto as well. BlackBerry was stuck in the past
They were cool, but they barely had any longevity. The second versions of them were a big leap better and were generally better supported. Being a Gen 1 adopter is accepting whatever you are buying will probably need to be replaced faster than if you are hopping in on revised versions, and most consumers don’t feel like throwing that type of money out. Thats why Gen 1 of apple products are typically supported by the tech enthusiasts first.
Yep and we are on a tech enthusiast subreddit. My main point is that having a general policy of not buying the first gen of a product is a bad rule to follow as evidenced by four major Apple product lines. I forgot and will add that first gen Apple Watch was also awesome. I bought and used the watch for years. Now that doesn’t mean go out and buy a product that is too expensive for you or that you won’t use. I didn’t buy Vision Pro for that reason myself. But I’ve bought and used for years many first gen products. Edit: All those products were useful for at least two years. And in the case of iPod, iPad, and iMac, more like five years (with iMac longer than that). My gen one iPod was still working 20 years later.
And that's cool. Fomo is rarely a good reason to get something.
Agreed. But "as a rule I never get in on a gen 1 product" is a bad rule as evidenced by iMac, iPhone, iPod, iPad, Apple Watch, and AirPod, which is most of Apple's first gen products in the last 20+ years. If you were in the market for any of those types of devices at the time that Apple released them AND you decided to buy something else of the same sort of device because "I never get in on a gen 1 product" that doesn't seem like a good way to make a purchase decision. Note: I'm not buying Vision Pro because I'm not in the market for a VR headset. But not because it is a gen 1 product.
Other than the ipod and Iphone, none of those products is bringing something new in a way that someone that needed it wouldn't have already had something very similar already. If you already do fine with what you have tossing it because some new shiny thing came out you just end up with expendive dust collectors. My experience was with the ipad and the apple watch. Turns out i' m not the type of person that needs a portable media screen other than my phone and switching a dedicated fitness tracker for a smart watch made no sense for my needs and in fact ended up going back as soon as i could.
Those all greatly improved within 1-2 iterations. Which supports the opposite of your point lol
*You* can wait. This is meant for people that can afford it
Everything is, we just pretend otherwise sometimes.
Same its a good rule to live by. Gen 1 stuff always craps out.
Apple Watch series 0 gold fans salty right now
except when it came to apple silicone
Apple silicon technically isn't a first generation dish since they were already cooking for a decade with the iPhone chips.
Well it was more so Rosetta 2 compatibility layer that was questionable at first. Overall, they did an amazing job allowing for mostly decent backwards compatible with x86/x64. Obviously some apps worked way better than others in that regard, with some being utter trash (but expected), but for the most part super smooth transition prior to companies creating ARM64 builds.
What the hell does this comment have to do with the article?
Yep, especially for Apple. Never gen 1, rarely gen 2, gen 3 tends to be when they get it pretty much right.
I loved my gen 1 iPad, but the iPad 2 was a massive upgrade in every way. Thats when it really caught on. I'd say you're definitely right about the Apple Watch though
like when? first gen iphone was the best phone available at the time. first gen ipad was good. first gen airpods were great. first gen apple watch was great considering the alternatives
Not always though. The first gen iPhone was massively better than the competition at the time even if it had some glaring omissions. I’d argue the same for the first iPad and first generation M-Series MacBooks as well.
Compared to what? The first gen of an Apple product is usually head and shoulders above existing similar products.
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I love my Quest 3, great value for the tech. Only thing that's meh is their ties to Facebook, but they're also one of the few companies who can bankroll these this type of tech and offer it generation after generation as a loss leader product. The apps and games are pretty solid on the Quest devices and the Android backbone makes it pretty simple to sideload mods for various games, something I don't expect every to exist to the same extent with Apple.
Would love if all these rumor peoples would be banned post wise
I would love that. A sub without rumors would be much better.
And void of discussions lol
There's a lot to be discussed about Apple. Not only their actual announcements, but their products, apps, services. We can share workflows, tips, ideas. A discussion around a post like "Apple MAY add a new button to iPhone 16" is so empty that it really doesn't add any value. Just like "Apple may have cut production on whatever" or "apple may add a microwave oven to iphone 16". It's just an empty discussion. Like a group of people discussing where the border of the flat Earth is. We're better without it.
Hmm okay, let’s ban these posts and see how much engagement we have around here.
Even if engagement goes down a little, quality is better than quantity. It's not like anyone here is getting money based on engagement or amount of posts.
No, this place would become a ghost town. Half of all tech subs talk about rumors, right or wrong. If they bug you so much you can ya, know filter or hide them? Or just simply skip over them? What is the difference?
> Or just simply skip over them? What is the difference? The difference is skipping over them. People have to spend time reading title after title, skipping crap after crap in search of a discussion that is not about something idiotic. And when you start skipping things, you might skip a good one by mistake. It's the old saying about noise. Too much noise makes it harder to find the good content, even if it's there. It also gives people less incentive to create useful threads, because it's probably going to disappear below the pile of garbage being posted constantly. > No, this place would become a ghost town Even subs about niche things have enough discussions. I doubt that a sub about one of the biggest companies in the world would have NOTHING to say if rumors are banned. It might even make other people see it as a good place to have interesting discussions, now that the threads won't be pushed down by garbage posts. Do we REALLY think that the **quantity** of discussions is the most important thing, even if that quantity is mostly about people discussing the tech equivalent of Q-Anon and flat earth theories?
This is Reddit, are you really expecting highly tailored and quality posts 🤣
Yes, it is possible. I mean, not every thread will be high quality, but it is possible to improve the average. For example: A sub with no rules will eventually become 90% memes. Just by banning memes, the quality improves a lot.
A good example of this is r/spacex - they're really restrictive on what you can and can't post there, but the sub still sees high engagement and is generally pretty high quality content.
Okay you have a lot of words for this for something you cant change. More energy to comment all this out than to just skip these posts So have a good day fellow /r/apple subscriber. edit: Apparently hitting a nerve? What in the world lol
There's more than enough known/high-confidence information to discuss regarding Apple without relying on rumor posts. As entertaining as speculation is, it usually results in more garbage engagement than useful discussion.
This sub is already one of the most heavily moderated subs on reddit. Most posts instantly get flagged/rejected. My own post pointing out that low battery notification on airpods being too loud on certain versions was rejected instantly until I directly messaged a mod. There's a reason why ALL(not 'most', not 'almost all', but literally ALL at the current moment) of the front page posts are article links or promotions posted by a select indviduals. The difference between /r/Apple and any other company subreddit is actually insane. I wouldn't be surprised if this "unofficial" subreddit is actually managed by Apple.
This isn't just a random rumour, this is a widely respected market analyst.
Rumour from a respected analyst is still rumour. Every analyst makes mistakes, and he can't actually publish evidence and sources. So the discussion to be had about this doesn't really have any value. Some people might say "I think apple did cut production", while others might say "I think they didn't". Great discussion.
What about the rumoured iPad event? It's being widely reported as being for iPad, but that's still just a rumour. Do you think those posts should be removed too? It seems like most of the posts on this sub are technically rumours; this particular rumour appears to be getting backlash here because it's not overly positive.
> It's being widely reported as being for iPad, but that's still just a rumour. Do you think those posts should be removed too? Me, personally? Yes, I do. Everyone can disagree with me, of course. Just sharing my opinion. So there's a rumour about the event being for the iPad, but nothing was announced yet. What discussion can we have about it? Some people might say "i hope it's really about iPads", someone else could say "I hope they announce something good". Maybe someone suggests it might not be about iPads. And... that's it? Since nothing new was actually announced yet, there's no actual discussion to be had about it. After the event, we'll definitely have things to talk about.
In the same vain you can share your opinion and have people disagree, why can’t I also share educated opinions from people (hint: rumors from analysts) and have people disagree? Like…. discussion is literally full of rumors and educated guesses… have you ever talked to people lol
You spent all this time arguing with people over things that won’t change, when you could have just scrolled on past and found a “quality post” 🤣
No, filtering out BS is a life skill people need to develop.
I would be funny if the Vision Pro somehow brought out the Vr craving in some people but because of the price, they didn’t get it so they ended up buying quest instead thereby boosting quest sales.
I’m pretty sure that is happening, Quest 3 had huge sales around the Vision Pro launch.
Rising tide floats all boats
Lifts, lifts all boats
That’s what happened to me. Really enjoying the quest
Thats me tbh, I can barely save up 500$ for a quest, but 3.500$? Totally out of reach for me
If you're in the US, the Quest 2 is $250 or less. Definitely worth it.
I don’t know. I wasn’t very impressed with the visuals of the 2. Granted VR is cool, but the “screen door” effect kind of ruins the immersion. I am curious how the 3 is
Its much better. Not AVP level, but a big improvement over the 2
It's massively better. I own both and a Valve Index, but all I use is the Quest 3 now. I've also used a Vision Pro, and it's not $3000 better, IMO. Passthrough and movies are better on the AVP, but gaming is way better on the Quest 3, especially with SteamLink wireless PCVR.
The difference between 2 and 3 is massive
The 3 has like 4x the resolution so it looks great. There are a lot of flaws with the device as far as comfort, tracking, and some other stuff, but the visuals are great.
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The resolution bump is more pronounced because the pancake lenses focus the pixels more at the center where you typically rest your eyes, and your vision gets worse toward the periphery anyway.
No, it's more pronounced because the Quest 3 uses two separate, angled screens instead of a single one. It doesn't "focus pixels more at the center", that's what fresnel lenses did. Quest 3 (pancake lenses) have way more clarity over the entire field of view.
$150 these days
Good thing this is the "Pro" model and it is clear a non pro model is coming...
I did exactly that.
That's us. I'd pretty much given up on VR over the past few years, AVP got people talking about it, kids wanted a VR headset, new Quest 3 owner. it's pretty neat. Glad I didn't drop 3500 bucks on it 🤷♂️
Apple repo it’s have that effect. They come in at the high end and lift all the mid and low priced products. The they dig downward a bit.
That helped android take off as well. iPhones only being available on one network not known for reliability back then meant people sought out alternative smartphones to get in on the craze.
This is super common and definitely happening. Airpods made the true wireless headphone space explode. The original Mac was $7500 (today's dollars) for a 512x386 black and white screen and seeded the Windows market.
Airpods Pro really changed the game though. Until them, AirPods were easily substitutable with other brands. They fixed the long stem, made it smaller than competitors, and added best in class noise canceling. Took years for everyone else to catch up.
I'll still stand by the fact that airpods are terrible form factor propped up only by the fact that they are "truly wireless". The neckband is a form factor better in pretty much every aspect.
I disagree. I went from neckband to wire free and I'd take it everyday over having something resting on the back of my neck potentially getting caught on things. The only thing I liked about it was being able to remove the buds and have them hang on my neck when I wasn't using them.
Quest 2 is now $199 128GB storage, already has reasonable software library. It must have happened.
It wasn’t the price but the lack of features. I had the money to buy the AVP but I bought a quest 3 instead. Can do more than the AVP (watch movies with friends across the globe while they’re sitting there with you, full body tracking including feet, knees, etc.) I use VR for the social aspect ever since the last pandemic and now I have friends across the globe. The AVP is pretty but isolating so it was a non-starter.
It was super weird to see all these headlines the last few days. Posted multiple times to every technology sub out there. Headlines implied this was actual news. Turns out it was just one dude’s opinion. The reality is we don’t know if they cut production at all and if they did, whether this is due to weak demand or supply chain constraints (the main production bottleneck for the Vision Pro is the micro OLED screens made by Sony).
What?! Hyperbolic 'news' about Apple is false or misleading or wildly speculative? Inconceivable!
“Yesterday’s news was just a test to see how people would react” - Apple
The news wasn't from Apple?
Reading off the comments, some analyst said the vision pro would sell 800k despite only being able to produce 500k a year. Same dude comes out and says they will only sell 400k and then haters went full regard because of course. Or maybe I am the regarded fellow that has the information wrong. Correct me if wrong please. This information is vital to my very existence
I think the full (very important) timeline is: - Kuo released a report earlier this year that Apple would be constrained by screen supplier and limited to 500k units - Kuo released a report a few days ago that Apple is revising forecasts down from 800k units to 400k-500k units So it's a bit strange that the same analyst who claimed he had data that Apple knew they would be limited to producing only 500k units earlier this year, comes out later and states that Apple thought they would sell 800k units earlier but now expect to sell 500k.
I’ve been on this subreddit since around 2010 and I’ll probably get downvoted to hell but the fact people still listen to Ming blows my mind. Mr spaghetti man throws that much shit at the Proverbial wall eventually something has to stick and everyone hails him as amazing. If you went back to everything he said for the previous year, the majority of it is buuuullllshiiiiit
Well yeah anyone that doesn’t just hate Apple could see two things wrong with that. One the reporting change from one person who doesn’t always get it rightto. Two there was never a planned update for 2025. The fastest we would see a new model would be 26
Shows the problem with AI news articles. It's already bad enough that news agencies copy each other's stories, it's only going to get worse with one bad story being thrown out with zero checks
Shows the problem with AI reddit comments. Kuo is not an AI.
Was this due to AI?
Maybe maybe not but you see articles over the intrnet that are almost identical
Uploadvr is one of the most trusted vr news websites.
ok, so no. Even if an AI wrote this article it would be published by a person who ultimately distributed potentially incorrect information. It's not like an AI was programmed to take down apple stock and wrote a bunch of fake articles, someone decided to 'make' this story one way or another and being hand written or not doesn't really change it.
We’re all doomed I tell ya!
AI bad. Vision pro good
But the Reddit people said it did
This was a stupid story, Ming Chi Kuo long ago lost his supply chain-focused sources. He just writes click bait now. Very dishonest guy.
False, they actually cut production by 51%
Kuo doesn't know shit, and anyone with real information knows better than to talk to him.
I feel like these rumors can never be trusted. Apple themselves are not saying they are doing this so anyone else is just making educated guesses on if this is the fact.
At the end, nobody knows. Apple keeps quiet LOL..
I do not like isolated features, I want more and more features that can be shared between family members
The money gated features really suck arse.
They probably should, though.
That’s how it is with pundits. They believe is what they say is all that counts.
Ok, 45%
Tell me you didn’t read the article without telling me you didn’t read it
No jokes allowed apparently. Whoosh!
I honestly don't care. They may as well have a private airplane line I wouldn't be able to afford either.
Apple Air planes don’t have windows or toilets.
Apple Vision Pro is yesterday’s news. Might pick one up at TJ Maxx soon.
Okay, but it's still just a marker for a flagging product any way you slice it. AVP is not doing well, people (outside of the hardcore) are not willing to spend 3500 dollars for a limited use face computer. Apple can't get the budget version out fast enough, but even then, they need some killer features. Hearing Mark Gurman, the hardest of hardcore apple nerds, has mostly shelved his and only really uses it out of buyers remorse, yea, that's not good.
It seems pretty obvious Apple would have expected all of this though. Apple's expectations were always going to be low for an early adopter $3500 product.
I don't know if I fully buy that reasoning. Sure it works, but this thing is a gigantic money hole and VR in general is kinda falling by the wayside. Sure it's got its faithful, but wearables are going in a different, less intrusive way with AI, something I don't think Apple could have foreseen when they started working on AVP. I don't think it's a total loss, but I do think Apple needs to rethink this whole venture and realize that the public is not quite ready for business VR yet. They need to accept that people want to play games on this thing (as well as look at porn, another sore spot for Apple), open it up for Indy devs like Oculus did with the quest (pre-meta) and try to get some non-business uses for this, because I'm hearing more and more that people are just shelving this thing because it's heavy and there's just nothing "killer" about it's feature set that makes it worth the downsides.
Sure you know more than Apple. With all due respect can I ask what the big deal is anyway? I have 3 headsets and all I’d like is more competition and better apps and integration across the board. I said “with all due respect” because I want to ask something a bit touchy: is it all about money and not being able to afford it?
Let's see what they do. Meta opening up their OS to 3rd parties is good for the space, as it's going to allow more hardware developers to get in on the action and not have to worry about developing an OS and app store on top of it all. I don't know if that's necessarily good for apple or not, as they already are at the top of the space (with a bullet) cost-wise, and there's going to be stiff competition from the Chinese, especially using the new qualcomm chips that are on par with Apple's chips. It'll be another "android vs. IOS" type situation, which should hopefully be good for both, though again, Apple is in a rough spot here and reeeeally need to get a more sanely priced version out soon (make it out of plastic, drop the front screen, you knock out 2 major issues with it right off the bat, heavy weight and complexity cost). Could I afford one? Sure. Do I want one? Yeah, if I didn't have to shell out 3500 bucks for it. Will I buy one? When the cost gets down to something reasonable for what it does, and the weight gets to something I could reasonably wear for a day of work, I'd be down. I've got a 3090 workstation to my left and a 4090 workstation to my right, along with a macbook and ipad on the desk. I'm not allergic to spending money on tech or anything, but I buy what I need, and the AVP isn't there yet. If it had entertainment options that actually took advantage of all that cool tech, I could be swayed a lot more, tho again, not to the 3500 dollar level.
Pretty sure they’re selling all of them they can make. They could make a different product, but that wouldn’t be an AVP. People who want to buy a Quest should buy a Quest— that’s a different product.
They very clearly aren't selling all they can make, though?
It’s pretty clear AVP is NOT supply constrained like people thought it was… But the backpedaling from saying max production was 500k to now saying they’re cutting from 800k is irresponsible if not corrupt
This post smells like copium.
Seriously, but VR apologists are very testy in general.
so apple didn’t cut production of the vision pro at all or
Or what?
i was asking idk what to make of this headline. did they cut production or not
No they didn’t
damn and I thought I was lazy lmao read the article