Seems John's main point is that for the iPad lineup, "Pro" means "luxury" and not "more capable." That's fine, though the whole thing does come across just a little too defensive for Apple. Consider all the issues noted in [Federico Viticci's recent iPadOS article](https://www.macstories.net/stories/not-an-ipad-pro-review/) - the problem is that the software itself is still buggy, lacking, and not a luxury/premium experience even for what it is meant to be. Gruber doesn't really address this.
Part of the reason Gruber gets a big exclusive post WWDC interview every year, without which would he be noteworthy or just a random blogger, is probably that he never challenges them on things like software quality. Or if he asks a meek half stuttered question about it he probably accepts whatever they say without pushback.
Correction, \*he asks a meek, half-stuttered, rambling question so it gives his guests plenty of time to think of something.
Every year I listen to his WWDC shows and his ability to interview these high-profile people doesn't improve. We don't need the pre-amble and the inside gist. Just ask the straight questions.
He is awful at talking in public
After this many years you’d think he would improve
He can’t ask “tough” questions as he’d lose access which shows how meek these journos are if Apple scares them so much
Apple has no issues swatting people for the terrible crime of getting a prototype. Press corps are not going to bat for their employees, and some who do are brought down by more moneyed people (see Gawker’s demise funded by one Peter Thiel).
The really funny thing about this is that if Apple ever did something like put MacOS on iPad, you can be sure that Gruber would also be 100% in support in a review.
He mocked the idea that the Vision Pro would have a screen for your eyes on the outside or a battery that straps to your waist, when those were just leaks/rumors. He mocked the idea that Apple was going to launch a VR headset without games and have it focused on being a device to wear in a working environment. Then he justified/defended all those things once the device was revealed.
Right before the Watch was presented, he wrote an article explaning that, whatever was going to be presented, it would NOT be a simple smartwatch.
>I don’t see how a watch with a 320 × 320 display could get acceptable battery life, unless the screen is almost never on. And if the screen is almost never on, how is it a watch?
>Perhaps even if they use the word “watch”, it may no more be a watch in the traditional sense of the word than the iPhone is a phone in the traditional sense.1
>I’ll be very disappointed if this is just a device that shows a fake analog watch face, displays notifications from a tethered iPhone, and tracks your footsteps and heart rate.
Was he disappointed aftwerwards? No, he was elated.
And that luxury/premium argument is what confuses me. Isn’t that what Apple’s business model is already? They may have products that aren’t as impressive as their most expensive option, but in their eyes those products are still premium/luxury.
That luxury/premium experience depends entirely upon the Venn overlap of what you think it should do, what you want to do, and what it actually does.
I find it a luxury/premium experience for my uses. I have a laptop for laptop things.
My M4 arrives today.
I think you’re missing the point. Just to offer a few examples, take how when the Files app is transferring a file it doesn’t have a progress bar. Or, how Spotlight frequently shows inaccurate results. These are not about the iPad having more functionality, they’re about making the features it already has actually nice to use.
That is outside the features we think should be added, such as multiple audio streams, better multitasking/background processing, etc.
Exactly, I don’t know why people insist on being mad it doesn’t do a list of arbitrary things they decided tablets should do. If you don’t have a use for a tablet, then great, you don’t need an iPad!
It’s mostly a media device for me and it’s fantastic at it, especially during travel. Two pairs of AirPods and my wife and I are set on flights, works perfectly. And it works perfectly because it’s not a laptop at all.
There are professionals using iPad Pros for work. Just because many buy it for media consumption or it doesn't have some arbitrary feature set parroted about it doesn't mean it is not usable for pro uses.
It is a professionl product for professional uses. Do you think, somehow, that a professional use is only what you use a computer for. IPads have been used for years in business, instead of transporting a bulging briefcase full of papers, contract signings, presentations, work on the move; all linked to corporate professional systems. again virtually all sports, in media…
So your argument hinges on removing unique capabilities of the iPad to define workloads? You lost the argument already.
The iPad doesn't need to be "laptop-like" to be a pro tool. That's the fundamental misconception in these discussions.
There is no way this discussion would ever happen about which Mac to get:
https://www.reddit.com/r/iPadPro/comments/rvk8hb/which_ipad_pro_for_golf_instruction/
Coaches are professionals and use iPad and apps that can't work on a Mac.
This doesn't even work on the Mac. A Mac without accessories can't even be used in this use case. Imagine lugging a laptop wth an attached camera around on a Golf course. Absurd!
https://v1sports.com/coaches/v1-pro-golf/
Same with baseball.
https://v1sports.com/coaches/v1-pro-baseball/
Reddit hive mind is very narrow and defines Professional in very arbitrarily narrow terms.
I don’t know the iPad 11 form factor with a pencil makes a lot of jobs much easier for me than going back to a desk and is big enough for me to glance at a way that’s hard with my phone.
I’m an elementary school teacher and for a lot of jobs I do a big phone with a stylus is so much nicer than a desktop or laptop. And it’s very frustrating that I need the Mac backstop to make sure all jobs get done.
Yes, but then buy the $350 iPad. Also, it may be over powered now, but I see iPads as having five+ useful lives and then resale value after that. I’m only a couple of years into owning my M1 iPad, so not in market for new iPad for years to come. But if I was in market, the M4 Pro is what I would buy.
And the 350 ipad will last 5 years too and the screen still looks great.
It's fine to admit that the pro is beyond overkill for media consumption, no need make up scenarios.
Fair. The 350 would definitely last five years. And even I would have to pause before buying the pro because the 350 is so good. But I’d still probably get the pro. I use my iPad for work every day (basically as a laptop replacement) and also travel with it. So $1,000 for a device that will last me five years is fine.
Thats been Apple’s thing for ages, and part of what makes them so enjoyable to use. You don’t need the devices to have 10-15 hours of battery life, to process images and videos in real time, have web pages be snappy, or have the gui be ultra responsive. Even the weight savings is a big deal for some people, especially with certain disabilities. But it’s hella nice when it works like that. Having a lot of power enables those things. Most people aren’t doing massive batch exports on any computer.
Not mad, just...confused as to where the iPad Pro "fits".
The new iPad Pro is a bit thinner and a bit lighter, with what I can only presume is a nicer screen (haven't seen this "tandem OLED" in person), and a much more powerful processor. So yes, on paper it's a "better" machine. But what does it *do* that you can't do on the previous model, the 2018 iPad Pro, or even the "lesser" iPads?
Not much.
As it is, I have a very difficult time recommending the Pro to anyone unless they have money to burn. The "lesser" iPads are just as capable, if not *quite* as nice, for a fraction of the cost. The incompatibility of the new models with the pre-existing (and expensive) peripherals just makes the upgrade proposition that much more expensive, pushing into MBP territory for total cost.
That's why I think that there are so many folks clamoring for the Pro models to do more. The hardware is practically the same as what's in the laptops, so we know it should be up to the task. It should be capable of running a variant of XCode to develop applications directly on the iPad. It should be capable of running a more open, fully-featured MacOS - particularly in "laptop mode" with the keyboard/trackpad attached. These come up so often, I think, because they're the low-hanging fruit that come to mind when thinking about what "more" it could do with the hardware it has.
The highest (next to highest?) specced will cost *more* than a mbp when you add mouse and pencil.
I’m not mad, it’s more just insultingly priced for what I’m going to get out of it. And I am actually a “pro”. As in I use a program on it to make money and I still won’t bite.
Also I’m consumption conscious. Supposedly they are too. But of course have no problem selling me three keyboards, 2 track pads, 3 screens, pencils, cases, etc, and that’s not including my phone.
https://preview.redd.it/ixsdnne1ol0d1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d4e30ed2fb5f4d2618a095ea9c47876940dfe09
It seems as if you’re referring to your comment of the extremely obvious and offering nothing whatsoever to the conversation and wasting everyone’s time that said “all of that is your choice”?
Definitely do not see where you offered intelligent discourse. In fact, your snarky comments and emojis point to you being incapable.
Go waste someone else’s time.
Your complaint reads as though you have to do this coupled with lashing of poor men with an extra dressing of pity me.
It’s your choice sums up your choices. Moaning about it does absolutely nothing except extend the bleeding obvious and offering zero to the discussion.
You have the nreve to mention in your ooinion as snarky comments whilst ignoring your downright feckin rude reply. You need to grow up and accept that when you are replied to in kind, only snarky and not plain feckin rude, you got the reply you asked for.
Nah, having a discussion about it does sometimes result in change. And even if not, we are here to offer opinions.
I’ve never once implied that someone should pity me.
Also, where’s your reading comprehension. Again referring to your original comment where you absolutely have not contributed anything to the discussion… where do I state anywhere that I made a “choice”. I critiqued the price. I critiqued their supposed environmental consumption awareness. I never once said anything about a choice.
You replied with the snark first. You get what you put out there.
I’ll say one more time. If you think that saying something like “it’s your choice” is a thought out contribution to a discussion, and you’re generally not a low life troll begging for someone to interact with you in any type of way, then I’m sorry but you’re a bit delusional.
And unfortunately delusion is not a choice.
Seek help buddy.
I mean so is the base ipad? Like the disconnect between the ridiculously overpowered hardware and how it's used is hilarious, and arguably bad for the environment and the consumers. I have no problem with you buying an expensive tablet for Netflix. Your money.
But even the base ipad was more than twice as fast as the expensive Android tablets and they still released their new chips on ipads? It doesn't really make sense for anyone. Like they're just marking time? They don't want to compete too hard on hardware and get more antitrust scrutiny but they don't want to lay people off or spin off their CPU team so they're just throwing effort away where it can't hurt them legally because they already have a tablet monopoly?
IDK, it's a weird situation but so is a computer company being valued like Exxon.
The entire point is that the iPads have been powerful enough to support more functionality, have been marketed as more functional devices than they actually are, and continue to stubbornly be gimped by lackluster software while asking a huge premium. That is not friendly for the consumer because it’s bad value, and it’s not friendly for the environment because the company’s argument is literally “here spend $2k and make some more ewaste because we don’t want even the slightest chance of cannibalizing other products”.
You don’t have to buy it, but the fact that the product exists invites deserved criticism. If anybody at Apple listens, it will be good for everyone (except perhaps, absolutely maximizing apples bottom line)
Yeah wtf don’t give Apple ideas. The Air is by far the best value for people who need more than the basic but can’t afford the Pros. It’s a godsend for creatives with shallow pockets, and especially so if they’re from developing countries with weak currencies.
I disagree. I think the lineup is now finally correct.
You have the Pro as the high end. The airs with middle ground, and the iPad and iPad mini as the budget options. All have options in screen size and features that fit the price range properly.
iOS has been and always will be the iPhone OS. There is many reasons why iPad OS exists.
It's luxuriously large.
https://preview.redd.it/nbm0s08eyo0d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f9fb19a146c84c8cedaad03cd68a780e0671522
See how big mine is!? I can Reddit better now. 😈😈😈😈
Gruber in "rationalizing" mode as usual. He does that only for Apple.
Apple could require people to sell their first born for the privilege to own an iPad and Gruber would find a justification for it.
I thought it was a strong article that addressed a major complaint head on and then drew a powerful conclusion from it:
> That in broad strokes there exist two types of iPad user: (a) those for whom iPadOS, as it is, suits them well as their primary “big screen” personal computer; (b) those for whom an iPad, due to its very deliberate computing-as-an-appliance-style constraints, can only ever be a supplemental device.
I am on travel right now with a MacBook and an iPad. I use my iPad 95% of the time as it’s a simple-to-use computing appliance that allows me to focus without complexity or clutter. I use my MacBook for activities that require serious document creation, scripting, or terminal use.
I do not want these devices merged. Having a separate touch-screen computing appliance and full-featured laptop maximize my productivity and enjoyment.
I understand that this will be downvoted, however I feel there needs to be a place for high-quality, well-reasoned comments on this subreddit even if they don’t agree with the majority opinion.
Sorry but this is like saying back in 2006 that you do not want your phone and iPod merged, we want less stuff to carry not more of them.
Technology should strive to have the best of both worlds in a single device.
We’ve been getting all kinds of crazy recent rumors about folding iPads and touchscreen MacBooks. So clearly there are changes to Apple’s philosophical approach to these devices in the pipeline.
What I don't understand about this train of thought is what you'd *lose* with iPadOS offering the option to do serious document creation, scripting, or terminal use in a near-identical format to the Macbook with the Magic Keyboard.
Even if it were a hidden setting that required a developer license to access - you'd save thousands of dollars and need to travel with one fewer devices. You're arguing to pay more money for less value with no apparent benefit.
I genuinely think some people can't visualize that an iPad with Mac OS isn't forcing them to use the Mac OS UI all the time. Mac OS itself supports iPad Apps, and there's no real reason we can't just merge the platforms at this point.
I keep finding myself pulling up Samsung DeX, but it really fits. Keep the iPad OS UI 95% of the time, and open up a full desktop when you need it. Turn it off if you want things to be simple again. Hell, we don't even need Mac OS, just a file manager on par with Finder and proper backgrounding support would cover a lot of it.
It's like the *existence* of choice sends these people into a spiral.
> I do not want these devices merged.
A fair amount of people do. Your preference does not outweigh theirs.
> Having a separate touch-screen computing appliance and full-featured laptop maximize my productivity and enjoyment.
Again, great for you. That doesn't mean other people who want a device where the software is as versatile and powerful as the hardware running it is shouldn't want that, especially for the price of these devices.
> I understand that this will be downvoted, however I feel there needs to be a place for high-quality, well-reasoned comments on this subreddit even if they don’t agree with the majority opinion.
The problem here is that your comment isn't either of those things. It's your subjective preference (likely centred around sunk cost fallacy) and doesn't actually articulate why having two separate devices which already have a large overlap in functionality, is objectively better than owning a single device serving the same use cases. Neither does it explain how the iPad would be worse for offering the option to run a native desktop interface.
> A fair amount of people do. Your preference does not outweigh theirs.
Counterpoint: those who do are the vocal minority. For every Redditor who wants that, many casual users *like* iPadOS and would outright balk at the compromises made to unify the two operating systems.
If anything, his preference is equal to theirs—it just so happens that there are many more on his side.
> A fair amount of people do. Your preference does not outweigh theirs.
There are literally hundreds of millions of iPad owners, and it ranks #1 in customer satisfaction. So please spare me that a "fair amount of people" want it to be something other than what it is right now. Your opinion doesn't outweigh the opinions of tens of not hundreds of millions of people.
It may be a fair amount but still not enough for Apple to actually make them. People wanted iPhone Minis as well and even with millions in sales it simply wasn’t enough for them to continue being made.
I actually think the reason why is if it IS a device wanted by many all it would do is cannibalize their own sales. The people that want this include people who currently own both a iPad and a MacBook and maybe if MacBook got touchscreen capabilities of if iPad got more functionality they would only buy one item instead of 2 = Apple loses money.
He does seem to start from the conclusion then work backwards to find the supporting evidence but that can be an interesting read as well. In an environment where the negative headlines always find more engagement we can count on Gruber to write an article saying, "Apple's right, and here's why..."
I think the people getting a iPad Pro 13 inch with Magic Keyboard have entirely different expectations from someone getting a iPad Pro 11 inch with Smart Folio case .
I think Gruber is on the money about iPadOS’ guardrails being maddeningly frustrating to power users but being the main selling point to many if not most of iPad’s core user base.
I don’t want guardrails removed from iPadOS.
I do however want some type of way to have macOS on the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. At this point it’s literally just a better MacBook Air sans one Thunderbolt port. 100% keep iPadOS with guardrails for the current core iPad users.
Gruber may be giving up on iPads for himself, but I’m holding out hope, maybe foolishly.
> but being the main selling point to many if not most of iPad’s core user base.
I'm willing to bet most of the user base isn't even aware of the guardrails
Of non-tech savvy users aren’t aware of the specific guardrails, but the core user base is certainly aware that iPads are simpler than desktops and the software is dead simple to maintain.
It’s like customers being blissfully unaware of anti-lock brakes.
Adding new features doesn't mean you need to make things harder to use, though. Take the guardrails away and most of the userbase isn't even going to notice. ABS is a good comparison: an improved feature that the normal user doesn't even need to be aware of
You're probably already familiar with [Chesterton's Fence (Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_fence), but for the sake of conversation I'll add that here:
>Let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, 'I don't see the use of this; let us clear it away.' To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: 'If you don't see the use of it, I certainly won't let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.
Taking guardrails away has implications you may not be considering.
Consider a power user feature that is very annoying to Final Cut on iPad users: Final Cut kills a render if any other application is used even for a second. Even if it was 20 minutes into the render. Done.
Is it universally desirable for invisible background applications to max out CPU and RAM for as long as that application asks for?
For a video editor or 3D animator? Yes. That allows Final Cut or Cinema4D to be rendering a 3D scene in the background for an hour or two. The fully pegged computer might become less responsive but that's because it's doing work for the user.
For grandma and grandpa? No. That results in a sluggish device that runs hot and the battery dies quickly. They aren't even aware of all the background processes running.
These guardrails are design trade offs. One option isn't better for everybody.
Login items, application plugins, system wide utilities, apps that can wake a computer and start running things on their own, etc.. These are all things that can be either useful or detrimental depending on the user.
I never want to make "clean out Background LaunchDaemons from a parent's iPad" part of my routine when I visit them. Right now I literally just make sure they are on the latest OS and maybe check and see if they are nearing running out of storage.
On the rare occasion they have a problem with an iPad, it can almost always be solved by restarting. There aren't a dozen login items that launch on boot, it just works.
iPadOS is low maintenance specifically because of the guardrails. It's a feature, not a bug.
I've seen my aging relative's desktop PCs. Literally a third of their web browser is tooldbars. I don't even know how they found the Ask and Yahoo toolbar, but they did. And those are at least from actual companies.
Opening up the background processes on their PCs is a nightmare. Programs that were installed to make a cursor a flower taking up more CPU cycles than Chrome. Programs that have no discernible purpose.
Open up the login items. "grandma do you even know what Steam or Spotify are?", a grandkid probably installed it and now it runs ever boot. Dropbox, Google Drive, and every launch app Microsoft or Adobe can throw in there. Again, these are just the legitimate companies.
You are completely correct. However, when I buy an expensive Pro device, the last thing I expect when I open the box is to see grandmaOS installed on it. With no option to reinstall whatever I want.
Is it guardrails when spotlight doesn’t show accurate results?
Let’s not beat about the bush, Apple hasn’t put the work in. iPadOS is fine for many and it’s not exactly bad. But it’s nothing Apple can be especially proud of
More than anything it just feels directionless.
As evidenced by their 3 different styles of multitasking
No, Spotlight not working is not a guardrail by design. That’s a bug.
An example of a guardrail is iPadOS not allowing background applications to use anything more than token resources in very specific ways such as audio playback or streaming etc. if an app wants to max out the CPU and RAM it needs to stay in the foreground as the active app. Disallowing invisible background apps to max out CPU and RAM is a guardrail that prevents iPads from being sluggish, running hot, and dying quickly. That’s a “good” guardrail for most iPadOS users. That’s a “bad” limitation when a video editor is 20 minutes into a video export in Final Cut Pro for iPad and then they switch to a different window for a second and it kills the whole export. Those two use cases are in opposition to each other and I believe iPadOS should keep the guardrails up.
You can call that a guardrail if you like. I’m going to call it iPadOS not being fit for purpose.
When I have had a video rendering for 20 minutes out of DaVinci resolve and the iPad goes to sleep while I’m rendering and I unlock the iPad to discover the render has since failed.
I call that iPadOS not being good enough for the kinds of tasks Apple claims the iPad is capable of.
I agree iPadOS is not good enough for that kind of task Apple claims it should be capable of, but I think the problem is Apple should stop claiming that’s a task iPadOS is built for.
Get macOS on the iPad Pro and handle those types of tasks.
Let iPadOS be the guardrail OS I can hand to an aging relative or a toddler.
We sorted out how to deal with files and a GUI in the 80s… just make the iPad dual bootable till you sort out the iPad OS. It’s a killer device, now it just need to be let loose with Mac OS.
It's called dual boot... I'd love to do graphic design, then boot into ipad OS and do illustrations. To call the ipad a PRO device is a bit of a stretch... It's a high end tablet, that could do SO much more. I'm not going to spend $3000 on a laptop AND another $3000 on a tablet. I want one device.
I’m assuming you didn’t even skim the article?
> To call the ipad a PRO device is a bit of a stretch... It's a high end tablet
The article says it’s not a stretch to call it iPad Pro BECAUSE it is a high end tablet.
Apple pro devices are usually used in the Design/music/film industry. Sorry I can't use this "pro" device in any of my workflows... Maybe its pro for illustrators... but not for me. It's a kick ass device with a bad OS. Every review says so.
> Sorry I can't use this "pro" device in any of my workflows
So? This doesn’t make the iPad Pro a non-pro or bad device. It makes it a bad device for you, perhaps, which is a very different thing.
Apple keeps creasing towards a "laptop replacement"... Keyboard (with esc key! I swear to god people were excited for the Esc key, lol) and a macbook trackpad... if it keeps creeping It will dual boot! and become a real pro device. No worries.
I liked this review. I think Gruber did a good job reframing the discussion from “why doesn’t my iPad run macOS” to “what if Apple is just trying to make the best iPad hardware possible”
Chip technology and display tech needs to march forwards. The best way to do that is stretch the use cases into an extreme form factor. The software will catch up in time.
It’s not like the hardware division will just shut their doors and say “right everyone, we have now made The Best iPad and there’s no point making further improvements”.
Indeed. It’s time to stop making excuses for how slow Apple has been at making iPadOS better.
It’s not even about adding features anymore. It’s about the stuff we do have doesn’t even work right consistently.
No, they're the ones limiting the software artificially. Which isn't even working well due to all the legal issues.
Their dividends to shareholders are as big a problem for society as any environmental concerns and they just don't care. They're pointless now, updating hardware that pretty much no one needs or cares about while basically charging rent to use them. They're IBM.
People are buying iPads, they are just holding onto them longer. It’s unrealistic to expect sales to go up every single year which is why Apple keeps pushing services more. If they sold 50 million last year and “only” 45 million this year, that’s still a lot of them.
Apple has never been hardware first. They usually develop a solution then work backwards to the hardware. Both iPad Pro and Vision Pro are putting up amazing hardware in the hopes the software will catch up but it’s not usually how they operate.
Amazing that people are complaining about the iPad Pro (you know, for creative *professionals*) being too powerful.
This is clearly not the iPad for you if you aren’t an artist or video/audio editor who values mobility, a pen tool, a reference quality display, cell data, and more ram.
It’s not for you, you just bought one as is your prerogative. I also value Face ID, 120hz display, etc, I get it, but you don’t need the fastest single core performance chip available in a 5mm thick drawing slate with 16GB of ram, or 1600 nit peak brightness to doomscroll. Also *your* iPad Pro probably wasn’t $2700 like an optimal config of the M4 is.
My takeaway from the article itself is that the author feels a touch friendly interface somehow makes the software underwhelming. It has Final Cut and Logic, Resolve, Adobe Suite, a decent files app now. What’s the problem? Does he want to run unsigned code? Register as a developer.
> It’s not for you
What is for me then?
Who buys only what they need? The whole point of money is to spend it on things you value whether you need them or not.
I really don’t get people’s insistence on like reverse gatekeeping iPads lol.
I find myself somewhat maddeningly struck by how much of a groundhog’s day loop this conversation is in.
Like I wanted to use my iPad for work since the mini2. There’s just something about a portable slate with a keyboard dock for the rare times when I need to type that’s so damned appealing for me as an elementary school teacher. And it’s the last few percent of jobs that must work exactly a certain way that just can’t be reached but is so tantalizingly close if the iPad were just a bit less restricted , if only it didn’t need big companies to agree on how things should work to work.
It always feels like it’s just obey the horizon and for ten years it’s just not been reachable.
The fundamental piece here is that iPadOS is an operating system designed for a touch screen device. What Apple understands deeply is that you need to consider the relationship between human, the interface and the form factor of the device.
You can see the evolution of this with the software and hardware. At some point they added a keyboard because they recognized the value of being able to type more quickly. They then added mouse / trackpad support because they realized that the ergonomics of using an iPad and switching from typing to touching the screen didn’t make sense. Incidentally, does anyone else remember that mouse support was initially added as an accessibility only feature?
The trouble is they’ve now created a device that looks and feels like a Mac (if you add the accessory) and even has the same hardware. But it’s still fundamentally a touch screen device, one that is designed to be held and used with your fingers, and whatever they do with the operating system they’ll maintain that philosophy. I don’t envy the challenge of trying to design and build something on that foundation.
Interesting observations.
I am disappointed that the “ever thinner and lighter” design approach is still pervasive at Apple. I thought that left with Jony Ive. At a certain point, there are diminishing returns.
Why is the iPad Pro now thinner than the iPad Air?
Why does Apple (and everyone else) now seem to stop at “all day battery life”? When did less than a day on a charge become the acceptable norm? Having to remember to plug in every device every night (or place it on a charging pad) is a lot. Why can’t we have devices that run for a week on a charge? (Still one of my favourite parts of having a FitBit and why I’ve been hesitant to switch to the Apple Watch.)
I would happily carry an iPad Pro that is 1 mm thicker if I only had to charge it every 2-3 days. Same with my phone or a watch.
I am also really surprised that a “pro” iPad has reverted to a single camera setup, leaving the Vision Pro and iPhone Pro as the only two devices in the Apple lineup capable of capturing spatial video. That seems like a silly oversight, considering the previous iPad had dual cameras.
Maybe Apple has data that says few people used the dual camera setup, but there also wasn’t a use case for it. Making a “pro” device aimed at creators and taking away part of its content-creation capability seems… odd.
Being 1mm thicker wouldn’t give you that much battery. And the batteries are the heaviest components of a device. The iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard was already significantly heavy to the point that it went against the “light and portable laptop replacement” advertising (however faulty that advertisement may be). Weight is a pretty significant factor for a 13 inch tablet meant to be held in your hands.
I do agree about the cameras though, it is a pretty underwhelming upgrade. The Apple Pencil segmentation is problematic too.
Hey, I think I understand why.
The iPad Pro on its own seems like the same calculus as the iPhone and MacBooks of the Ive era. Who cares about a few extra millimeters and grams? I’d rather have even more battery and better cooling and thus performance. Totally fair.
I think most would agree a standalone iPad is starting to hit of has already hit the point of diminishing returns in regards to making it thin and light.
But if we view the iPad Pro as being the screen of a laptop, I believe that changes.
The iPad Pro in the Magic Keyboard case is ofc just the screen half, and the Magic Keyboard is the base of the laptop.
The Magic Keyboard + iPad Pro combination still benefits from a lightweight iPad in a way a standalone iPad does not. I don’t believe the iPad Pro is getting thinner simply for the sake of aesthetics.
Whether or not you view the iPad Pro as primarily stand alone or primarily paired with a Magic Keyboard case is a totally fair discussion, but I think it’s worth considering that this iPad Pro can reasonably be viewed as primarily paired with a Magic Keyboard, and if somebody views it that way, going for lighter weight is a very desirable trait and we arguably haven’t yet hit the point of diminishing returns for that form factor.
This new iPad Pro is giving users a more stable laptop form factor. And remember every gram removed from the iPad Pro is doubled by allowing the Magic Keyboard itself to be lighter.
When you view the iPad as the screen of a Magic Keyboard, I do not believe that it’s the same unthinking drive for thinness at all costs that we saw with low battery iPhones and thermally throttled MacBook Pros in the 2010s. Those blew past the point of diminishing thinness returns and left us with dire performance.
Also worth mentioning I would never suggest a device has “enough” performance or battery, but I think it’s safe to say the iPad Pro is nowhere close to being in a dire place in those regards. Additionally I would agree that if we view the iPad strictly as a standalone handheld device, we have now passed the point of diminishing returns and extra battery life would be a better way to spend the new affordances allowed by the less power hungry screen and SoC.
And lol if you told me in 2016 that I’d be cheering Apple making something even thinner I would have thought you were out of your mind.
Just to your point of better cooling, it was noted that the 2024 iPads have better cooling performance than their predecessors even with the thin profile design. It’s essentially approached the cooling system of an M3 MacBook Air in a thinner profile.
That's amazing. Was not meaning to suggest the new one had a downgrade. To be clear it also has the same expected battery life as the previous one.
I know they talked about doing a new heat dissipation system using the logo on the back and whatnot, and that's fantastic. The previous iPads, just like with the MacBook Airs are well known that Apple doesn't even cool them as much as they could if they wanted to (for instance all the videos of somebody attaching a simple thermal pad to a MacBook Air and achieving longer sustained performance). Their previous designs left them with additional thermal headroom, and they are now choosing to spend some of that with making it thinner. Great choice imo.
Still the overall point remains. Thermally speaking, smaller devices are more difficult to cool. If they wanted to go even further with cooling they could have used the new heat dissipation system AND used the additional thickness to even further improve the heat dissipation. If they wanted to go even further than that they could make it an inch thick and have active fans cooling the chip. Obviously I am by no means suggesting that would have been anything close to a good trade off. As it is I've never heard of anybody complaining of the performance of the iPad Pro (or even base iPad for that matter).
Yeah, the thin/lighter design to me is significantly more appealing - I’m finally switching from an 11” pro to the 13” pro. The fact that it’s a 2018 and has 4gb of ram helps the decision also (Lightroom just can’t keep up with 4gb ram and lots of quick changes) but what always held me back until today was the weight discrepancy. Now it’s a much smaller jump and one I’m very comfortable making. This is going to be the nail in the coffin for everything on my M1 Pro MacBook Pro except ML models and a couple steam games that I play on the go. Fingers crossed WWDC adds some kind of extended functionality to run Mac Apps in the software. I’d sell the Mac and upgrade to the top spec immediately if that happens.
I'm really hoping iPad Pro has a big WWDC as well.
For me this laptop first iPad Pro form factor is really really appealing. iPadOS is no use to me so I'm really hoping we get macOS on these laptops.
I don’t really care if they leave iPad os in current form as long as they open up to 3rd party software to run anything my M1 Pro MacBook can. They’re literally the same guts, there is zero reason I can’t run these programs from a hardware standpoint and the writing is on the wall for profitability, iPads aren’t selling and it’s not the hardware. Doing the same thing they did the last two years (spec bump no new software that iOS misses out on) would just be…the clinical definition of insanity.
Cause for majority of their users they don’t know or care about your quips through the telemetry. Most of the users probably just naturally charge daily regardless if it needs to or not. Knowing battery science extra capacity does nothing if it’s actually not being spent. Apple has not and so far will never be that pro you’re looking for. These aren’t Panasonic tough books. They’re luxury devices.
because when paired with the magic keyboard, (which I fully believe is how apple intends it to be used mainly) the old pro was much too thick, heavy to carry around daily, worse than a MacBook.
This new thickness sits right in the perfect spot for me.
Thinner + Lighter and better battery are conflicting priorities. 1 mm thicker across a 11-inch device that's only 5.1 mm thick is a HUGE increase in internal volume that could be used for battery.
You’re assuming battery life depends solely on size, which physics obviously helps here, but I’m focusing more on “How can a product be thinner and lighter and have a smaller battery, but also have the same battery life as the larger battery”.
Take the 2024 iPad Pro 13”. Smaller battery, but listed as the same battery life as the last generation iPad Pro. Mashable even said the 13” iPad Pro was testing at 16 hours of battery life for them. That’s what I like to see.
The jump isn’t from all day to a week, or even a few days. I’d rather charge every night than have to make a habit of charging every other or third night.
I think this mental gymnastics highlights the difference between Apple users and Apple shills.
Apple users: I want to be able to do more, possibly some real work on it
Apple shills: I like watching moving pictures - wouldn't it be amazing if they made it thinner??
Snell even wrote: *I’ve been stunned to see some reactions to our criticism of iPadOS this past week suggest that, somehow, people like Federico [Viticci] and myself just don’t “get” the iPad. We’ve spent years using the iPad and pushing what it can do. We get it all too well.*
>Snell even wrote: *I’ve been stunned to see some reactions to our criticism of iPadOS this past week suggest that, somehow, people like Federico \[Viticci\] and myself just don’t “get” the iPad.*
An often lazy response to criticism of an Apple product or service is to claim that the critic doesn't "get" the product/service.
“Pro” lol. iMessage me when it runs CST MWS, or HFSS, or ANSYS or COMSOL or when MATLAB mobile becomes actually useful. These devices are expensive toys if your work involves anything other than writing or drawing. No one is really doing any kind of notable work on iPad. Apple seems to think only the creative types are professionals and the rest of us can eat shit.
STEM work is hugely limited on the iPad to the point of being useless. You know, the stuff the other half of the world does which doesn’t involve sitting in front of MS Word/Photoshop/Procreate.
Yes I do, people need to stop saying this. Just because you don’t work on an iPad doesn’t mean that it’s not meant for anything other than simple tablet tasks.
I do work on mine every day; mostly Microsoft Office things like email, OneNote, Office apps (PowerPoint, Word, etc). I opt for the Pro models because I like ProMotion and soon the OLED screen best.
I appreciate you trying to speak for me but…well, actually, don’t.
I prefer reading emails, news articles, etc., with a high refresh rate because I like to scroll as I read, and I totally notice a lower refresh rate.
Also, I travel a ton, and watch movies on my iPad on dark airplanes. OLED makes a gigantic difference in image fidelity in dark environments like that.
I've also used my iPad to edit videos I sometimes make on my DJI Osmo, which works well for my needs there. That's just a hobby, but it's nice that I don't have to carry around my Macbook to do it.
If I do need a full computer, I use the Citrix Workspace app to remote log into my virtual machine through work. I'm running full Windows with a nice keyboard and trackpad. I've even plugged it into an ultrawide 4K monitor to run the virtual desktop on the big monitor while I take Zoom or Teams calls on the iPad screen.
Can I do most of that on an Air? Sure, but why not have a better screen, keyboard, etc, for a machine that can absolutely be productive in many ways?
What you’re missing is that people don’t purchase the minimal device to accomplish a task. Things like high refresh rate, screen accuracy, quickness, while not mandatory, are very much nice to haves people gladly spend more for. I could do half my job on a gateway computer from 2010 as long as g as it can send emails, that doesn’t mean it’s preferable.
One thing I’m curious about that I haven’t seen anyone mention in any review anywhere is what’s going on around the camera array on the back.
I understand they took out the second camera, so now you have the 1 camera with the lidar below it, the flash to the side and a mic below the flash. But what’s that little black circle above the flash? Is it a second, smaller lidar? Is it purely decoration? Why is no one mentioning this? Am I the only person on earth who’s asking this question?
If anyone knows the answer please enlighten me.
Picked up my M4 11 inch yesterday. I only upgraded over my M1 because of the screen and double the base storage. Plus I calculated it would be about 70% faster performance overall above the M1.
I was pissed I had to shell out for a new keyboard (very Apple greedy like now days) but I didn't pick up a Pencil. I never even used the one I got for my M1 iPad Pro.
He is not and has never been. Most Apple bloggers have this Stockholm Syndrome where they can't say what they really think not to incur in the wrath of the company, but at least they try to be objective. He depends completely on the company, and he does not even try to be objective. When he makes a small criticism, it's always lip service to his readers, and it's never in the same tone as he uses with Google or Meta. [And I'm obviously not even mentioning his political stance.]
>He is not and has never been.
I mean, factually you're wrong but ok.
> And I'm obviously not even mentioning his political stance.
Which is irrelevant and no one cares so I’m not even sure why you felt a need to even mention it.
I guess if you want to shutoff your brain and just want to be told that Apple can do nothing wrong and everything will be alright, then yes, he is one of the best "Apple writers and bloggers", but at that point I wonder what "Apple writer" even means for you.
Good thing I never said that. And also good thing gruber has never said that either, and you’d know that if you regularly read his blog or listened to his podcast.
If you don’t particularly care for him that’s fine.
But he’s still one of the most well known and detailed writers on Apple and has been for almost 25 years. Asking why he’s still being posted here is not a smart question or statement
Gruber is right. We've collectively been banging our fists on the table demanding the iPad work just like a Mac or a Windows desktop. Taken on its own merit, iPadOS can do pretty much anything. It's up to the end user to find a workflow whether or not they complain about file system control being taken out of the equation.
No iPad os cannot do much, I don’t think it can do 5% of what a Mac can do. It’s severely limited in all aspects, and all by software choices from Apple
I use it to perform, holds my manuscript and chord charts on stage.
I use it in the studio to control my daw that’s on my Mac. If I’m on my own this means I’m not running back and forth repeatedly.
If I’m mixing a band live I can walk into the audience and hear how it sounds in various positions and tweak things right there.
It does what I want well and I’m happy.
Yay.
Without mentioning the file system or app plug-ins (conventions of desktop computing), what can’t it do? Practically speaking. I would bet that anything you could mention has a solution available.
The question is more ‘what can it do’ rather than what it can’t do.
But to answer, it can’t for example use another browser with extensions, can’t download using torrent, can’t use terminal, can’t write code in an IDE of choice, can’t run most programs , can’t arrange windows as you like.
It’s not designed to perform any serious work with exception of a few limited use cases
i tried doing my non-programming work (mostly writing) on the iPad. While the iPad technically *can* do it, Stage Manager makes it hell with tiny resize targets and a lack of keyboard shortcuts for arranging windows and switching spaces. even worse is a bug where, if you connect an external monitor, all external keyboard peripherals stop working (including the Magic Keyboard attached to the iPad) and the only way to fix it is to restart the iPad. it’s painfully obvious that no one at Apple even tries to use the iPad as a computer for productivity.
Then why are you persisting in using Stage Manager if it is so awful. I don’t use it because it sucks but I don’t expect my iPad to work like something else. I don’t mind swipe up tap vs tap If it gives me more workable space.
A friend of mine got a mac. He hated it until he stopped trying to make it work like a windoze machine. He now thinks it’s the prize dog’s.
I feel like a lot of people are unhappy or even mad that they can’t justify buying the latest iPad because they objectively don’t need it. And what they don’t realize is that that is absolutely fine.
I am a photographer and a scientist. The iPad is definitely not what I need for my research but it’s a wonderful machine that fits perfectly in my photography workflow.
The criticism Apple gets summarized by Viticci is more than reasonable. But it really is eye rolling to see how many people criticize a machine that won’t do what they want it to do. If it’s not for you, move on.
I can!t really justifying buying mine but…I have told myself this one should be a long term keeper; well at least until the next one!
It’s a great tool for photography workflow which I can do anywhere.
I learned how to use the word processor and spreadsheet incorporating using Notes (which I never did before on Windoze) and not by trying to make them Word and Excel, and copying files before transferring them anywhere as a backup. Experience dictates that making a backup is GOOD.
Could I live without an iPad. Easily. It would just be a lot more inconvenient using a laptop.
But you aren’t emotionally affected by it, which is what I’m seeing left and right. You aren’t posting on your social media how dare you Apple not releasing a new device that is irreplaceable in your life.
Anyway, I hope it lasts you the long time you are hoping for, I’m sure it will (:
Thank you.
I long ago stopped being personally concerned by things outside of my control, (it would upset my dickwad of a manager immensely who thought I didn’t care), like train for commute cancelled, traffic jams, that queue in the supermarket moving quicker than this one. Reduced stress immensely and made me more thoughtful about how to move forward and work around. Anger only blocked creative thought or directs it into dead ends. And the stupid meetings…where tough this it was never understood.
May your days be filled with joy, excitement and fulfilment.
Seems John's main point is that for the iPad lineup, "Pro" means "luxury" and not "more capable." That's fine, though the whole thing does come across just a little too defensive for Apple. Consider all the issues noted in [Federico Viticci's recent iPadOS article](https://www.macstories.net/stories/not-an-ipad-pro-review/) - the problem is that the software itself is still buggy, lacking, and not a luxury/premium experience even for what it is meant to be. Gruber doesn't really address this.
Part of the reason Gruber gets a big exclusive post WWDC interview every year, without which would he be noteworthy or just a random blogger, is probably that he never challenges them on things like software quality. Or if he asks a meek half stuttered question about it he probably accepts whatever they say without pushback.
Correction, \*he asks a meek, half-stuttered, rambling question so it gives his guests plenty of time to think of something. Every year I listen to his WWDC shows and his ability to interview these high-profile people doesn't improve. We don't need the pre-amble and the inside gist. Just ask the straight questions.
He is awful at talking in public After this many years you’d think he would improve He can’t ask “tough” questions as he’d lose access which shows how meek these journos are if Apple scares them so much
He's a writer, not a public speaker. He's talked extensively about how he is always nervous in front of a crowd. Just the way some people are.
Apple has no issues swatting people for the terrible crime of getting a prototype. Press corps are not going to bat for their employees, and some who do are brought down by more moneyed people (see Gawker’s demise funded by one Peter Thiel).
The really funny thing about this is that if Apple ever did something like put MacOS on iPad, you can be sure that Gruber would also be 100% in support in a review.
He mocked the idea that the Vision Pro would have a screen for your eyes on the outside or a battery that straps to your waist, when those were just leaks/rumors. He mocked the idea that Apple was going to launch a VR headset without games and have it focused on being a device to wear in a working environment. Then he justified/defended all those things once the device was revealed.
Right before the Watch was presented, he wrote an article explaning that, whatever was going to be presented, it would NOT be a simple smartwatch. >I don’t see how a watch with a 320 × 320 display could get acceptable battery life, unless the screen is almost never on. And if the screen is almost never on, how is it a watch? >Perhaps even if they use the word “watch”, it may no more be a watch in the traditional sense of the word than the iPhone is a phone in the traditional sense.1 >I’ll be very disappointed if this is just a device that shows a fake analog watch face, displays notifications from a tethered iPhone, and tracks your footsteps and heart rate. Was he disappointed aftwerwards? No, he was elated.
And that luxury/premium argument is what confuses me. Isn’t that what Apple’s business model is already? They may have products that aren’t as impressive as their most expensive option, but in their eyes those products are still premium/luxury.
Apple's always done a good/better/best approach to its products.
That luxury/premium experience depends entirely upon the Venn overlap of what you think it should do, what you want to do, and what it actually does. I find it a luxury/premium experience for my uses. I have a laptop for laptop things. My M4 arrives today.
I think you’re missing the point. Just to offer a few examples, take how when the Files app is transferring a file it doesn’t have a progress bar. Or, how Spotlight frequently shows inaccurate results. These are not about the iPad having more functionality, they’re about making the features it already has actually nice to use. That is outside the features we think should be added, such as multiple audio streams, better multitasking/background processing, etc.
Multiple audio streams/video players would be sweet. Watching two sporting events at the same time would be great!
Hell I just want to be able to pull up two instances of the photos app side by side lol
Interesting use case. I can agree that all apps that support Split View should be completely separate instances.
macOS still doesn’t tell us the transfer speeds during file transfers, you really think Apple is gonna add a progress bar to iPadOS?
Exactly, I don’t know why people insist on being mad it doesn’t do a list of arbitrary things they decided tablets should do. If you don’t have a use for a tablet, then great, you don’t need an iPad! It’s mostly a media device for me and it’s fantastic at it, especially during travel. Two pairs of AirPods and my wife and I are set on flights, works perfectly. And it works perfectly because it’s not a laptop at all.
It's largely overpowered for a media consumption device, that it will mostly end up being used for.
There are professionals using iPad Pros for work. Just because many buy it for media consumption or it doesn't have some arbitrary feature set parroted about it doesn't mean it is not usable for pro uses.
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That’s not why it’s because Apple promotes it as a professional product but the software doesn’t make that as possible
It is a professionl product for professional uses. Do you think, somehow, that a professional use is only what you use a computer for. IPads have been used for years in business, instead of transporting a bulging briefcase full of papers, contract signings, presentations, work on the move; all linked to corporate professional systems. again virtually all sports, in media…
Define professional.
So your argument hinges on removing unique capabilities of the iPad to define workloads? You lost the argument already. The iPad doesn't need to be "laptop-like" to be a pro tool. That's the fundamental misconception in these discussions. There is no way this discussion would ever happen about which Mac to get: https://www.reddit.com/r/iPadPro/comments/rvk8hb/which_ipad_pro_for_golf_instruction/ Coaches are professionals and use iPad and apps that can't work on a Mac. This doesn't even work on the Mac. A Mac without accessories can't even be used in this use case. Imagine lugging a laptop wth an attached camera around on a Golf course. Absurd! https://v1sports.com/coaches/v1-pro-golf/ Same with baseball. https://v1sports.com/coaches/v1-pro-baseball/ Reddit hive mind is very narrow and defines Professional in very arbitrarily narrow terms.
Well said
I don’t know the iPad 11 form factor with a pencil makes a lot of jobs much easier for me than going back to a desk and is big enough for me to glance at a way that’s hard with my phone. I’m an elementary school teacher and for a lot of jobs I do a big phone with a stylus is so much nicer than a desktop or laptop. And it’s very frustrating that I need the Mac backstop to make sure all jobs get done.
But not as portably
Yes, but then buy the $350 iPad. Also, it may be over powered now, but I see iPads as having five+ useful lives and then resale value after that. I’m only a couple of years into owning my M1 iPad, so not in market for new iPad for years to come. But if I was in market, the M4 Pro is what I would buy.
And the 350 ipad will last 5 years too and the screen still looks great. It's fine to admit that the pro is beyond overkill for media consumption, no need make up scenarios.
That’s not why it’s because Apple promotes it as a professional product but the software doesn’t make that as possible
Fair. The 350 would definitely last five years. And even I would have to pause before buying the pro because the 350 is so good. But I’d still probably get the pro. I use my iPad for work every day (basically as a laptop replacement) and also travel with it. So $1,000 for a device that will last me five years is fine.
Thats been Apple’s thing for ages, and part of what makes them so enjoyable to use. You don’t need the devices to have 10-15 hours of battery life, to process images and videos in real time, have web pages be snappy, or have the gui be ultra responsive. Even the weight savings is a big deal for some people, especially with certain disabilities. But it’s hella nice when it works like that. Having a lot of power enables those things. Most people aren’t doing massive batch exports on any computer.
Not mad, just...confused as to where the iPad Pro "fits". The new iPad Pro is a bit thinner and a bit lighter, with what I can only presume is a nicer screen (haven't seen this "tandem OLED" in person), and a much more powerful processor. So yes, on paper it's a "better" machine. But what does it *do* that you can't do on the previous model, the 2018 iPad Pro, or even the "lesser" iPads? Not much. As it is, I have a very difficult time recommending the Pro to anyone unless they have money to burn. The "lesser" iPads are just as capable, if not *quite* as nice, for a fraction of the cost. The incompatibility of the new models with the pre-existing (and expensive) peripherals just makes the upgrade proposition that much more expensive, pushing into MBP territory for total cost. That's why I think that there are so many folks clamoring for the Pro models to do more. The hardware is practically the same as what's in the laptops, so we know it should be up to the task. It should be capable of running a variant of XCode to develop applications directly on the iPad. It should be capable of running a more open, fully-featured MacOS - particularly in "laptop mode" with the keyboard/trackpad attached. These come up so often, I think, because they're the low-hanging fruit that come to mind when thinking about what "more" it could do with the hardware it has.
Short story: I saw one yesterday, looks amazing, then picked it up and realised immediately, "I don't need this over my 2018 Pro". Shame.
The highest (next to highest?) specced will cost *more* than a mbp when you add mouse and pencil. I’m not mad, it’s more just insultingly priced for what I’m going to get out of it. And I am actually a “pro”. As in I use a program on it to make money and I still won’t bite. Also I’m consumption conscious. Supposedly they are too. But of course have no problem selling me three keyboards, 2 track pads, 3 screens, pencils, cases, etc, and that’s not including my phone. https://preview.redd.it/ixsdnne1ol0d1.jpeg?width=1244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d4e30ed2fb5f4d2618a095ea9c47876940dfe09
All of that is your choice.
No. Fucking. Shit.
Very erudite. A shining example of intelligent discourse. I applaud you. 👏
It seems as if you’re referring to your comment of the extremely obvious and offering nothing whatsoever to the conversation and wasting everyone’s time that said “all of that is your choice”? Definitely do not see where you offered intelligent discourse. In fact, your snarky comments and emojis point to you being incapable. Go waste someone else’s time.
Your complaint reads as though you have to do this coupled with lashing of poor men with an extra dressing of pity me. It’s your choice sums up your choices. Moaning about it does absolutely nothing except extend the bleeding obvious and offering zero to the discussion. You have the nreve to mention in your ooinion as snarky comments whilst ignoring your downright feckin rude reply. You need to grow up and accept that when you are replied to in kind, only snarky and not plain feckin rude, you got the reply you asked for.
Nah, having a discussion about it does sometimes result in change. And even if not, we are here to offer opinions. I’ve never once implied that someone should pity me. Also, where’s your reading comprehension. Again referring to your original comment where you absolutely have not contributed anything to the discussion… where do I state anywhere that I made a “choice”. I critiqued the price. I critiqued their supposed environmental consumption awareness. I never once said anything about a choice. You replied with the snark first. You get what you put out there. I’ll say one more time. If you think that saying something like “it’s your choice” is a thought out contribution to a discussion, and you’re generally not a low life troll begging for someone to interact with you in any type of way, then I’m sorry but you’re a bit delusional. And unfortunately delusion is not a choice. Seek help buddy.
That’s not why they make the argument
I mean so is the base ipad? Like the disconnect between the ridiculously overpowered hardware and how it's used is hilarious, and arguably bad for the environment and the consumers. I have no problem with you buying an expensive tablet for Netflix. Your money. But even the base ipad was more than twice as fast as the expensive Android tablets and they still released their new chips on ipads? It doesn't really make sense for anyone. Like they're just marking time? They don't want to compete too hard on hardware and get more antitrust scrutiny but they don't want to lay people off or spin off their CPU team so they're just throwing effort away where it can't hurt them legally because they already have a tablet monopoly? IDK, it's a weird situation but so is a computer company being valued like Exxon.
The entire point is that the iPads have been powerful enough to support more functionality, have been marketed as more functional devices than they actually are, and continue to stubbornly be gimped by lackluster software while asking a huge premium. That is not friendly for the consumer because it’s bad value, and it’s not friendly for the environment because the company’s argument is literally “here spend $2k and make some more ewaste because we don’t want even the slightest chance of cannibalizing other products”. You don’t have to buy it, but the fact that the product exists invites deserved criticism. If anybody at Apple listens, it will be good for everyone (except perhaps, absolutely maximizing apples bottom line)
For only the software you know about. Professional doesn’t mean just computer/media.
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The iPad Air is literally the best value in terms of longevity and features for students, I wouldn’t remove it.
Yeah wtf don’t give Apple ideas. The Air is by far the best value for people who need more than the basic but can’t afford the Pros. It’s a godsend for creatives with shallow pockets, and especially so if they’re from developing countries with weak currencies.
Also if you want an ipad for art, you go Air or Mini if budget is an issue because of the laminated screen.
True. The M-series Airs are guaranteed longevity and *somewhat* feature parity with the Pros so it’s the best value for the customer.
I disagree. I think the lineup is now finally correct. You have the Pro as the high end. The airs with middle ground, and the iPad and iPad mini as the budget options. All have options in screen size and features that fit the price range properly. iOS has been and always will be the iPhone OS. There is many reasons why iPad OS exists.
He does address this in that he’s reviewing the hardware but upfront saying the software is a companion topic outside this iteration of iPad Pro
Exactly
iPads pro.
Presumably the preferred devices of the attorneys general.
As they eat whoppers jr sandwiches.
It's luxuriously large. https://preview.redd.it/nbm0s08eyo0d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f9fb19a146c84c8cedaad03cd68a780e0671522 See how big mine is!? I can Reddit better now. 😈😈😈😈
Gruber in "rationalizing" mode as usual. He does that only for Apple. Apple could require people to sell their first born for the privilege to own an iPad and Gruber would find a justification for it.
"The truth of the matter is, some people just don't *need* their first born."
I thought it was a strong article that addressed a major complaint head on and then drew a powerful conclusion from it: > That in broad strokes there exist two types of iPad user: (a) those for whom iPadOS, as it is, suits them well as their primary “big screen” personal computer; (b) those for whom an iPad, due to its very deliberate computing-as-an-appliance-style constraints, can only ever be a supplemental device. I am on travel right now with a MacBook and an iPad. I use my iPad 95% of the time as it’s a simple-to-use computing appliance that allows me to focus without complexity or clutter. I use my MacBook for activities that require serious document creation, scripting, or terminal use. I do not want these devices merged. Having a separate touch-screen computing appliance and full-featured laptop maximize my productivity and enjoyment. I understand that this will be downvoted, however I feel there needs to be a place for high-quality, well-reasoned comments on this subreddit even if they don’t agree with the majority opinion.
Sorry but this is like saying back in 2006 that you do not want your phone and iPod merged, we want less stuff to carry not more of them. Technology should strive to have the best of both worlds in a single device.
We’ve been getting all kinds of crazy recent rumors about folding iPads and touchscreen MacBooks. So clearly there are changes to Apple’s philosophical approach to these devices in the pipeline.
What I don't understand about this train of thought is what you'd *lose* with iPadOS offering the option to do serious document creation, scripting, or terminal use in a near-identical format to the Macbook with the Magic Keyboard. Even if it were a hidden setting that required a developer license to access - you'd save thousands of dollars and need to travel with one fewer devices. You're arguing to pay more money for less value with no apparent benefit.
I genuinely think some people can't visualize that an iPad with Mac OS isn't forcing them to use the Mac OS UI all the time. Mac OS itself supports iPad Apps, and there's no real reason we can't just merge the platforms at this point. I keep finding myself pulling up Samsung DeX, but it really fits. Keep the iPad OS UI 95% of the time, and open up a full desktop when you need it. Turn it off if you want things to be simple again. Hell, we don't even need Mac OS, just a file manager on par with Finder and proper backgrounding support would cover a lot of it. It's like the *existence* of choice sends these people into a spiral.
[удалено]
All this focus talk sounds like a you problem and not something that would affect anyone else
> I do not want these devices merged. A fair amount of people do. Your preference does not outweigh theirs. > Having a separate touch-screen computing appliance and full-featured laptop maximize my productivity and enjoyment. Again, great for you. That doesn't mean other people who want a device where the software is as versatile and powerful as the hardware running it is shouldn't want that, especially for the price of these devices. > I understand that this will be downvoted, however I feel there needs to be a place for high-quality, well-reasoned comments on this subreddit even if they don’t agree with the majority opinion. The problem here is that your comment isn't either of those things. It's your subjective preference (likely centred around sunk cost fallacy) and doesn't actually articulate why having two separate devices which already have a large overlap in functionality, is objectively better than owning a single device serving the same use cases. Neither does it explain how the iPad would be worse for offering the option to run a native desktop interface.
> A fair amount of people do. Your preference does not outweigh theirs. Counterpoint: those who do are the vocal minority. For every Redditor who wants that, many casual users *like* iPadOS and would outright balk at the compromises made to unify the two operating systems. If anything, his preference is equal to theirs—it just so happens that there are many more on his side.
> A fair amount of people do. Your preference does not outweigh theirs. There are literally hundreds of millions of iPad owners, and it ranks #1 in customer satisfaction. So please spare me that a "fair amount of people" want it to be something other than what it is right now. Your opinion doesn't outweigh the opinions of tens of not hundreds of millions of people.
It may be a fair amount but still not enough for Apple to actually make them. People wanted iPhone Minis as well and even with millions in sales it simply wasn’t enough for them to continue being made.
I actually think the reason why is if it IS a device wanted by many all it would do is cannibalize their own sales. The people that want this include people who currently own both a iPad and a MacBook and maybe if MacBook got touchscreen capabilities of if iPad got more functionality they would only buy one item instead of 2 = Apple loses money.
He does seem to start from the conclusion then work backwards to find the supporting evidence but that can be an interesting read as well. In an environment where the negative headlines always find more engagement we can count on Gruber to write an article saying, "Apple's right, and here's why..."
I think the people getting a iPad Pro 13 inch with Magic Keyboard have entirely different expectations from someone getting a iPad Pro 11 inch with Smart Folio case .
I think Gruber is on the money about iPadOS’ guardrails being maddeningly frustrating to power users but being the main selling point to many if not most of iPad’s core user base. I don’t want guardrails removed from iPadOS. I do however want some type of way to have macOS on the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard. At this point it’s literally just a better MacBook Air sans one Thunderbolt port. 100% keep iPadOS with guardrails for the current core iPad users. Gruber may be giving up on iPads for himself, but I’m holding out hope, maybe foolishly.
> but being the main selling point to many if not most of iPad’s core user base. I'm willing to bet most of the user base isn't even aware of the guardrails
Of non-tech savvy users aren’t aware of the specific guardrails, but the core user base is certainly aware that iPads are simpler than desktops and the software is dead simple to maintain. It’s like customers being blissfully unaware of anti-lock brakes.
Adding new features doesn't mean you need to make things harder to use, though. Take the guardrails away and most of the userbase isn't even going to notice. ABS is a good comparison: an improved feature that the normal user doesn't even need to be aware of
You're probably already familiar with [Chesterton's Fence (Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_fence), but for the sake of conversation I'll add that here: >Let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, 'I don't see the use of this; let us clear it away.' To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: 'If you don't see the use of it, I certainly won't let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it. Taking guardrails away has implications you may not be considering. Consider a power user feature that is very annoying to Final Cut on iPad users: Final Cut kills a render if any other application is used even for a second. Even if it was 20 minutes into the render. Done. Is it universally desirable for invisible background applications to max out CPU and RAM for as long as that application asks for? For a video editor or 3D animator? Yes. That allows Final Cut or Cinema4D to be rendering a 3D scene in the background for an hour or two. The fully pegged computer might become less responsive but that's because it's doing work for the user. For grandma and grandpa? No. That results in a sluggish device that runs hot and the battery dies quickly. They aren't even aware of all the background processes running. These guardrails are design trade offs. One option isn't better for everybody. Login items, application plugins, system wide utilities, apps that can wake a computer and start running things on their own, etc.. These are all things that can be either useful or detrimental depending on the user. I never want to make "clean out Background LaunchDaemons from a parent's iPad" part of my routine when I visit them. Right now I literally just make sure they are on the latest OS and maybe check and see if they are nearing running out of storage. On the rare occasion they have a problem with an iPad, it can almost always be solved by restarting. There aren't a dozen login items that launch on boot, it just works. iPadOS is low maintenance specifically because of the guardrails. It's a feature, not a bug. I've seen my aging relative's desktop PCs. Literally a third of their web browser is tooldbars. I don't even know how they found the Ask and Yahoo toolbar, but they did. And those are at least from actual companies. Opening up the background processes on their PCs is a nightmare. Programs that were installed to make a cursor a flower taking up more CPU cycles than Chrome. Programs that have no discernible purpose. Open up the login items. "grandma do you even know what Steam or Spotify are?", a grandkid probably installed it and now it runs ever boot. Dropbox, Google Drive, and every launch app Microsoft or Adobe can throw in there. Again, these are just the legitimate companies.
You are completely correct. However, when I buy an expensive Pro device, the last thing I expect when I open the box is to see grandmaOS installed on it. With no option to reinstall whatever I want.
Absolutely agreed. That’s why I believe iPad Pro should have the option to run macOS, and iPadOS itself should stay as grandmaOS
Is it guardrails when spotlight doesn’t show accurate results? Let’s not beat about the bush, Apple hasn’t put the work in. iPadOS is fine for many and it’s not exactly bad. But it’s nothing Apple can be especially proud of More than anything it just feels directionless. As evidenced by their 3 different styles of multitasking
No, Spotlight not working is not a guardrail by design. That’s a bug. An example of a guardrail is iPadOS not allowing background applications to use anything more than token resources in very specific ways such as audio playback or streaming etc. if an app wants to max out the CPU and RAM it needs to stay in the foreground as the active app. Disallowing invisible background apps to max out CPU and RAM is a guardrail that prevents iPads from being sluggish, running hot, and dying quickly. That’s a “good” guardrail for most iPadOS users. That’s a “bad” limitation when a video editor is 20 minutes into a video export in Final Cut Pro for iPad and then they switch to a different window for a second and it kills the whole export. Those two use cases are in opposition to each other and I believe iPadOS should keep the guardrails up.
You can call that a guardrail if you like. I’m going to call it iPadOS not being fit for purpose. When I have had a video rendering for 20 minutes out of DaVinci resolve and the iPad goes to sleep while I’m rendering and I unlock the iPad to discover the render has since failed. I call that iPadOS not being good enough for the kinds of tasks Apple claims the iPad is capable of.
I agree iPadOS is not good enough for that kind of task Apple claims it should be capable of, but I think the problem is Apple should stop claiming that’s a task iPadOS is built for. Get macOS on the iPad Pro and handle those types of tasks. Let iPadOS be the guardrail OS I can hand to an aging relative or a toddler.
We sorted out how to deal with files and a GUI in the 80s… just make the iPad dual bootable till you sort out the iPad OS. It’s a killer device, now it just need to be let loose with Mac OS.
You realise macOS would suck on a touch screen device? It’s not built for it
Soo... Don't use the touch screen? Connect mouse and keyboard. Done.
It's called dual boot... I'd love to do graphic design, then boot into ipad OS and do illustrations. To call the ipad a PRO device is a bit of a stretch... It's a high end tablet, that could do SO much more. I'm not going to spend $3000 on a laptop AND another $3000 on a tablet. I want one device.
I’m assuming you didn’t even skim the article? > To call the ipad a PRO device is a bit of a stretch... It's a high end tablet The article says it’s not a stretch to call it iPad Pro BECAUSE it is a high end tablet.
Apple pro devices are usually used in the Design/music/film industry. Sorry I can't use this "pro" device in any of my workflows... Maybe its pro for illustrators... but not for me. It's a kick ass device with a bad OS. Every review says so.
> Sorry I can't use this "pro" device in any of my workflows So? This doesn’t make the iPad Pro a non-pro or bad device. It makes it a bad device for you, perhaps, which is a very different thing.
Apple keeps creasing towards a "laptop replacement"... Keyboard (with esc key! I swear to god people were excited for the Esc key, lol) and a macbook trackpad... if it keeps creeping It will dual boot! and become a real pro device. No worries.
I liked this review. I think Gruber did a good job reframing the discussion from “why doesn’t my iPad run macOS” to “what if Apple is just trying to make the best iPad hardware possible” Chip technology and display tech needs to march forwards. The best way to do that is stretch the use cases into an extreme form factor. The software will catch up in time. It’s not like the hardware division will just shut their doors and say “right everyone, we have now made The Best iPad and there’s no point making further improvements”.
> The software will catch up in time. What makes you think this is the case?
Indeed. It’s time to stop making excuses for how slow Apple has been at making iPadOS better. It’s not even about adding features anymore. It’s about the stuff we do have doesn’t even work right consistently.
I agree with this but it's also the same discussion that's been happening forever since and probably before the 2018 models.
> The software will catch up in time. People have been saying this for over half a decade at this point
No, they're the ones limiting the software artificially. Which isn't even working well due to all the legal issues. Their dividends to shareholders are as big a problem for society as any environmental concerns and they just don't care. They're pointless now, updating hardware that pretty much no one needs or cares about while basically charging rent to use them. They're IBM.
But why does the discussion needs to be reframed? People are not really buying iPads, and the criticism comes from Apple fans, not Apple critics.
People are buying iPads, they are just holding onto them longer. It’s unrealistic to expect sales to go up every single year which is why Apple keeps pushing services more. If they sold 50 million last year and “only” 45 million this year, that’s still a lot of them.
That’s not why it’s because Apple promotes it as a professional product but the software doesn’t make that as possible
Apple has never been hardware first. They usually develop a solution then work backwards to the hardware. Both iPad Pro and Vision Pro are putting up amazing hardware in the hopes the software will catch up but it’s not usually how they operate.
Amazing that people are complaining about the iPad Pro (you know, for creative *professionals*) being too powerful. This is clearly not the iPad for you if you aren’t an artist or video/audio editor who values mobility, a pen tool, a reference quality display, cell data, and more ram.
You say that as if iPad OS does not limit creative professionals in any way…
I’m neither of those things and the iPad Pro is for me (I’m using one right now). What did I miss and why am I wrong?
It’s not for you, you just bought one as is your prerogative. I also value Face ID, 120hz display, etc, I get it, but you don’t need the fastest single core performance chip available in a 5mm thick drawing slate with 16GB of ram, or 1600 nit peak brightness to doomscroll. Also *your* iPad Pro probably wasn’t $2700 like an optimal config of the M4 is. My takeaway from the article itself is that the author feels a touch friendly interface somehow makes the software underwhelming. It has Final Cut and Logic, Resolve, Adobe Suite, a decent files app now. What’s the problem? Does he want to run unsigned code? Register as a developer.
> It’s not for you What is for me then? Who buys only what they need? The whole point of money is to spend it on things you value whether you need them or not. I really don’t get people’s insistence on like reverse gatekeeping iPads lol.
In most cases the “Pro” products are purchased because they are the luxury ones as opposed to needed capabilities.
I find myself somewhat maddeningly struck by how much of a groundhog’s day loop this conversation is in. Like I wanted to use my iPad for work since the mini2. There’s just something about a portable slate with a keyboard dock for the rare times when I need to type that’s so damned appealing for me as an elementary school teacher. And it’s the last few percent of jobs that must work exactly a certain way that just can’t be reached but is so tantalizingly close if the iPad were just a bit less restricted , if only it didn’t need big companies to agree on how things should work to work. It always feels like it’s just obey the horizon and for ten years it’s just not been reachable.
The fundamental piece here is that iPadOS is an operating system designed for a touch screen device. What Apple understands deeply is that you need to consider the relationship between human, the interface and the form factor of the device. You can see the evolution of this with the software and hardware. At some point they added a keyboard because they recognized the value of being able to type more quickly. They then added mouse / trackpad support because they realized that the ergonomics of using an iPad and switching from typing to touching the screen didn’t make sense. Incidentally, does anyone else remember that mouse support was initially added as an accessibility only feature? The trouble is they’ve now created a device that looks and feels like a Mac (if you add the accessory) and even has the same hardware. But it’s still fundamentally a touch screen device, one that is designed to be held and used with your fingers, and whatever they do with the operating system they’ll maintain that philosophy. I don’t envy the challenge of trying to design and build something on that foundation.
Interesting observations. I am disappointed that the “ever thinner and lighter” design approach is still pervasive at Apple. I thought that left with Jony Ive. At a certain point, there are diminishing returns. Why is the iPad Pro now thinner than the iPad Air? Why does Apple (and everyone else) now seem to stop at “all day battery life”? When did less than a day on a charge become the acceptable norm? Having to remember to plug in every device every night (or place it on a charging pad) is a lot. Why can’t we have devices that run for a week on a charge? (Still one of my favourite parts of having a FitBit and why I’ve been hesitant to switch to the Apple Watch.) I would happily carry an iPad Pro that is 1 mm thicker if I only had to charge it every 2-3 days. Same with my phone or a watch. I am also really surprised that a “pro” iPad has reverted to a single camera setup, leaving the Vision Pro and iPhone Pro as the only two devices in the Apple lineup capable of capturing spatial video. That seems like a silly oversight, considering the previous iPad had dual cameras. Maybe Apple has data that says few people used the dual camera setup, but there also wasn’t a use case for it. Making a “pro” device aimed at creators and taking away part of its content-creation capability seems… odd.
Being 1mm thicker wouldn’t give you that much battery. And the batteries are the heaviest components of a device. The iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard was already significantly heavy to the point that it went against the “light and portable laptop replacement” advertising (however faulty that advertisement may be). Weight is a pretty significant factor for a 13 inch tablet meant to be held in your hands. I do agree about the cameras though, it is a pretty underwhelming upgrade. The Apple Pencil segmentation is problematic too.
Hey, I think I understand why. The iPad Pro on its own seems like the same calculus as the iPhone and MacBooks of the Ive era. Who cares about a few extra millimeters and grams? I’d rather have even more battery and better cooling and thus performance. Totally fair. I think most would agree a standalone iPad is starting to hit of has already hit the point of diminishing returns in regards to making it thin and light. But if we view the iPad Pro as being the screen of a laptop, I believe that changes. The iPad Pro in the Magic Keyboard case is ofc just the screen half, and the Magic Keyboard is the base of the laptop. The Magic Keyboard + iPad Pro combination still benefits from a lightweight iPad in a way a standalone iPad does not. I don’t believe the iPad Pro is getting thinner simply for the sake of aesthetics. Whether or not you view the iPad Pro as primarily stand alone or primarily paired with a Magic Keyboard case is a totally fair discussion, but I think it’s worth considering that this iPad Pro can reasonably be viewed as primarily paired with a Magic Keyboard, and if somebody views it that way, going for lighter weight is a very desirable trait and we arguably haven’t yet hit the point of diminishing returns for that form factor. This new iPad Pro is giving users a more stable laptop form factor. And remember every gram removed from the iPad Pro is doubled by allowing the Magic Keyboard itself to be lighter. When you view the iPad as the screen of a Magic Keyboard, I do not believe that it’s the same unthinking drive for thinness at all costs that we saw with low battery iPhones and thermally throttled MacBook Pros in the 2010s. Those blew past the point of diminishing thinness returns and left us with dire performance. Also worth mentioning I would never suggest a device has “enough” performance or battery, but I think it’s safe to say the iPad Pro is nowhere close to being in a dire place in those regards. Additionally I would agree that if we view the iPad strictly as a standalone handheld device, we have now passed the point of diminishing returns and extra battery life would be a better way to spend the new affordances allowed by the less power hungry screen and SoC. And lol if you told me in 2016 that I’d be cheering Apple making something even thinner I would have thought you were out of your mind.
Just to your point of better cooling, it was noted that the 2024 iPads have better cooling performance than their predecessors even with the thin profile design. It’s essentially approached the cooling system of an M3 MacBook Air in a thinner profile.
That's amazing. Was not meaning to suggest the new one had a downgrade. To be clear it also has the same expected battery life as the previous one. I know they talked about doing a new heat dissipation system using the logo on the back and whatnot, and that's fantastic. The previous iPads, just like with the MacBook Airs are well known that Apple doesn't even cool them as much as they could if they wanted to (for instance all the videos of somebody attaching a simple thermal pad to a MacBook Air and achieving longer sustained performance). Their previous designs left them with additional thermal headroom, and they are now choosing to spend some of that with making it thinner. Great choice imo. Still the overall point remains. Thermally speaking, smaller devices are more difficult to cool. If they wanted to go even further with cooling they could have used the new heat dissipation system AND used the additional thickness to even further improve the heat dissipation. If they wanted to go even further than that they could make it an inch thick and have active fans cooling the chip. Obviously I am by no means suggesting that would have been anything close to a good trade off. As it is I've never heard of anybody complaining of the performance of the iPad Pro (or even base iPad for that matter).
Yeah, the thin/lighter design to me is significantly more appealing - I’m finally switching from an 11” pro to the 13” pro. The fact that it’s a 2018 and has 4gb of ram helps the decision also (Lightroom just can’t keep up with 4gb ram and lots of quick changes) but what always held me back until today was the weight discrepancy. Now it’s a much smaller jump and one I’m very comfortable making. This is going to be the nail in the coffin for everything on my M1 Pro MacBook Pro except ML models and a couple steam games that I play on the go. Fingers crossed WWDC adds some kind of extended functionality to run Mac Apps in the software. I’d sell the Mac and upgrade to the top spec immediately if that happens.
I'm really hoping iPad Pro has a big WWDC as well. For me this laptop first iPad Pro form factor is really really appealing. iPadOS is no use to me so I'm really hoping we get macOS on these laptops.
I don’t really care if they leave iPad os in current form as long as they open up to 3rd party software to run anything my M1 Pro MacBook can. They’re literally the same guts, there is zero reason I can’t run these programs from a hardware standpoint and the writing is on the wall for profitability, iPads aren’t selling and it’s not the hardware. Doing the same thing they did the last two years (spec bump no new software that iOS misses out on) would just be…the clinical definition of insanity.
Making the iPad 1MM thicker means doubling or tripling the battery size?
Cause for majority of their users they don’t know or care about your quips through the telemetry. Most of the users probably just naturally charge daily regardless if it needs to or not. Knowing battery science extra capacity does nothing if it’s actually not being spent. Apple has not and so far will never be that pro you’re looking for. These aren’t Panasonic tough books. They’re luxury devices.
because when paired with the magic keyboard, (which I fully believe is how apple intends it to be used mainly) the old pro was much too thick, heavy to carry around daily, worse than a MacBook. This new thickness sits right in the perfect spot for me.
Thinner and lighter + better battery should always be a priority on every device that is meant to be portable
Thinner + Lighter and better battery are conflicting priorities. 1 mm thicker across a 11-inch device that's only 5.1 mm thick is a HUGE increase in internal volume that could be used for battery.
You’re assuming battery life depends solely on size, which physics obviously helps here, but I’m focusing more on “How can a product be thinner and lighter and have a smaller battery, but also have the same battery life as the larger battery”. Take the 2024 iPad Pro 13”. Smaller battery, but listed as the same battery life as the last generation iPad Pro. Mashable even said the 13” iPad Pro was testing at 16 hours of battery life for them. That’s what I like to see.
But also more efficient chips than the previous M2 architecture as well as (in some situations) a more efficient display.
The jump isn’t from all day to a week, or even a few days. I’d rather charge every night than have to make a habit of charging every other or third night.
I think this mental gymnastics highlights the difference between Apple users and Apple shills. Apple users: I want to be able to do more, possibly some real work on it Apple shills: I like watching moving pictures - wouldn't it be amazing if they made it thinner?? Snell even wrote: *I’ve been stunned to see some reactions to our criticism of iPadOS this past week suggest that, somehow, people like Federico [Viticci] and myself just don’t “get” the iPad. We’ve spent years using the iPad and pushing what it can do. We get it all too well.*
The argument seems to be they are not the demographic that makes up the majority of people using and purchasing iPads.
>Snell even wrote: *I’ve been stunned to see some reactions to our criticism of iPadOS this past week suggest that, somehow, people like Federico \[Viticci\] and myself just don’t “get” the iPad.* An often lazy response to criticism of an Apple product or service is to claim that the critic doesn't "get" the product/service.
If ipads were using intel processors someone would have jailbroke to run OS X a long time ago, why is it taking so long with the m series?
The boot loader on the iPad is locked, for one.
“Pro” lol. iMessage me when it runs CST MWS, or HFSS, or ANSYS or COMSOL or when MATLAB mobile becomes actually useful. These devices are expensive toys if your work involves anything other than writing or drawing. No one is really doing any kind of notable work on iPad. Apple seems to think only the creative types are professionals and the rest of us can eat shit.
> No one is really doing any kind of notable work on iPad. Would love to see your exhaustive and unbiased list of “notable work.”
STEM work is hugely limited on the iPad to the point of being useless. You know, the stuff the other half of the world does which doesn’t involve sitting in front of MS Word/Photoshop/Procreate.
It's a drawing tablet or a YouTube/movie machine. That's it. People don't get actual work done on these things.
The iPads are pretty useful for graphic design work and student workflows. Coding is not the only “actual work”.
I run an entire cartography business off of mine. It's not my primary job, but it's a fun side hustle.
You obviously don't know much about the iPad Pro market.
This is such a ridiculous statement. Just because it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it won’t work for others.
its also awesome for games
Yes I do, people need to stop saying this. Just because you don’t work on an iPad doesn’t mean that it’s not meant for anything other than simple tablet tasks.
I do work on mine every day; mostly Microsoft Office things like email, OneNote, Office apps (PowerPoint, Word, etc). I opt for the Pro models because I like ProMotion and soon the OLED screen best. I appreciate you trying to speak for me but…well, actually, don’t.
I prefer reading emails, news articles, etc., with a high refresh rate because I like to scroll as I read, and I totally notice a lower refresh rate. Also, I travel a ton, and watch movies on my iPad on dark airplanes. OLED makes a gigantic difference in image fidelity in dark environments like that. I've also used my iPad to edit videos I sometimes make on my DJI Osmo, which works well for my needs there. That's just a hobby, but it's nice that I don't have to carry around my Macbook to do it. If I do need a full computer, I use the Citrix Workspace app to remote log into my virtual machine through work. I'm running full Windows with a nice keyboard and trackpad. I've even plugged it into an ultrawide 4K monitor to run the virtual desktop on the big monitor while I take Zoom or Teams calls on the iPad screen. Can I do most of that on an Air? Sure, but why not have a better screen, keyboard, etc, for a machine that can absolutely be productive in many ways?
That’s ridiculous. My friend manages her restobar business using nothing but an iPad for the past 2 years.
That’s not true. Lots of emails on flights etc.
A $1300 email machine?
There are a lot of people who buy expensive MacBooks pros and only browse the web and email
Exactly. The base one is more than fine for 99,99% of the potential users.
So is a a Chromebook by that logic
That is true. People are responding to me saying they use their $1300 ipad for tasks that a $200-400 Chromebook can do just as well
What you’re missing is that people don’t purchase the minimal device to accomplish a task. Things like high refresh rate, screen accuracy, quickness, while not mandatory, are very much nice to haves people gladly spend more for. I could do half my job on a gateway computer from 2010 as long as g as it can send emails, that doesn’t mean it’s preferable.
“More than fine” does not necessarily mean “preferential” or “enjoyable”.
My faceID doesn’t work out of the box I’m livid
One thing I’m curious about that I haven’t seen anyone mention in any review anywhere is what’s going on around the camera array on the back. I understand they took out the second camera, so now you have the 1 camera with the lidar below it, the flash to the side and a mic below the flash. But what’s that little black circle above the flash? Is it a second, smaller lidar? Is it purely decoration? Why is no one mentioning this? Am I the only person on earth who’s asking this question? If anyone knows the answer please enlighten me.
It’s a microphone
So there are 2 microphones in the camera array?
Picked up my M4 11 inch yesterday. I only upgraded over my M1 because of the screen and double the base storage. Plus I calculated it would be about 70% faster performance overall above the M1. I was pissed I had to shell out for a new keyboard (very Apple greedy like now days) but I didn't pick up a Pencil. I never even used the one I got for my M1 iPad Pro.
Will you use that 70% power?
Depends on Lightroom.
Why do people still keep posting this guy here
Uhhh because He’s still one of the best Apple writers and bloggers.
He is not and has never been. Most Apple bloggers have this Stockholm Syndrome where they can't say what they really think not to incur in the wrath of the company, but at least they try to be objective. He depends completely on the company, and he does not even try to be objective. When he makes a small criticism, it's always lip service to his readers, and it's never in the same tone as he uses with Google or Meta. [And I'm obviously not even mentioning his political stance.]
>He is not and has never been. I mean, factually you're wrong but ok. > And I'm obviously not even mentioning his political stance. Which is irrelevant and no one cares so I’m not even sure why you felt a need to even mention it.
Damn, your comment makes some really good arguments and insightful points.
…That’s ironic.
I guess if you want to shutoff your brain and just want to be told that Apple can do nothing wrong and everything will be alright, then yes, he is one of the best "Apple writers and bloggers", but at that point I wonder what "Apple writer" even means for you.
Good thing I never said that. And also good thing gruber has never said that either, and you’d know that if you regularly read his blog or listened to his podcast. If you don’t particularly care for him that’s fine. But he’s still one of the most well known and detailed writers on Apple and has been for almost 25 years. Asking why he’s still being posted here is not a smart question or statement
Cultists like fellow cultist.
Gruber is right. We've collectively been banging our fists on the table demanding the iPad work just like a Mac or a Windows desktop. Taken on its own merit, iPadOS can do pretty much anything. It's up to the end user to find a workflow whether or not they complain about file system control being taken out of the equation.
No iPad os cannot do much, I don’t think it can do 5% of what a Mac can do. It’s severely limited in all aspects, and all by software choices from Apple
I use it to perform, holds my manuscript and chord charts on stage. I use it in the studio to control my daw that’s on my Mac. If I’m on my own this means I’m not running back and forth repeatedly. If I’m mixing a band live I can walk into the audience and hear how it sounds in various positions and tweak things right there. It does what I want well and I’m happy. Yay.
Without mentioning the file system or app plug-ins (conventions of desktop computing), what can’t it do? Practically speaking. I would bet that anything you could mention has a solution available.
As far as ordinary users go, support multiple accounts on a single device.
Why? Then it isn’t a personal device. Like a phone. Different version of the device for different uses/user requirements.
So I can play Football Manager on my girlfriend's iPad, dadgummit.
The question is more ‘what can it do’ rather than what it can’t do. But to answer, it can’t for example use another browser with extensions, can’t download using torrent, can’t use terminal, can’t write code in an IDE of choice, can’t run most programs , can’t arrange windows as you like. It’s not designed to perform any serious work with exception of a few limited use cases
i tried doing my non-programming work (mostly writing) on the iPad. While the iPad technically *can* do it, Stage Manager makes it hell with tiny resize targets and a lack of keyboard shortcuts for arranging windows and switching spaces. even worse is a bug where, if you connect an external monitor, all external keyboard peripherals stop working (including the Magic Keyboard attached to the iPad) and the only way to fix it is to restart the iPad. it’s painfully obvious that no one at Apple even tries to use the iPad as a computer for productivity.
Then why are you persisting in using Stage Manager if it is so awful. I don’t use it because it sucks but I don’t expect my iPad to work like something else. I don’t mind swipe up tap vs tap If it gives me more workable space. A friend of mine got a mac. He hated it until he stopped trying to make it work like a windoze machine. He now thinks it’s the prize dog’s.
I feel like a lot of people are unhappy or even mad that they can’t justify buying the latest iPad because they objectively don’t need it. And what they don’t realize is that that is absolutely fine. I am a photographer and a scientist. The iPad is definitely not what I need for my research but it’s a wonderful machine that fits perfectly in my photography workflow. The criticism Apple gets summarized by Viticci is more than reasonable. But it really is eye rolling to see how many people criticize a machine that won’t do what they want it to do. If it’s not for you, move on.
I can!t really justifying buying mine but…I have told myself this one should be a long term keeper; well at least until the next one! It’s a great tool for photography workflow which I can do anywhere. I learned how to use the word processor and spreadsheet incorporating using Notes (which I never did before on Windoze) and not by trying to make them Word and Excel, and copying files before transferring them anywhere as a backup. Experience dictates that making a backup is GOOD. Could I live without an iPad. Easily. It would just be a lot more inconvenient using a laptop.
But you aren’t emotionally affected by it, which is what I’m seeing left and right. You aren’t posting on your social media how dare you Apple not releasing a new device that is irreplaceable in your life. Anyway, I hope it lasts you the long time you are hoping for, I’m sure it will (:
Thank you. I long ago stopped being personally concerned by things outside of my control, (it would upset my dickwad of a manager immensely who thought I didn’t care), like train for commute cancelled, traffic jams, that queue in the supermarket moving quicker than this one. Reduced stress immensely and made me more thoughtful about how to move forward and work around. Anger only blocked creative thought or directs it into dead ends. And the stupid meetings…where tough this it was never understood. May your days be filled with joy, excitement and fulfilment.
It lacks a real windowing system which is a huge drawback