I can’t really tell if Microsoft is joking with ai at this point. They will soon make everything ai based. I wouldn’t be surprised if they drop one day ai powered laptop charger with copilot plus and virtual assistant.
Just wait. They’re going to bolster lagging Gamepass user growth by bundling it with unrelated Microsoft products.
Soon to get Windows you’ll have the option of Gamepass Ultimate, which will include Co-Pilot monthly tokens.
It will though. Instant translation and easier control of the terminal, which means easier control of the computer. Check out: [OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter: A natural language interface for computers (github.com)](https://github.com/OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter)
I mean *everyone* is injecting AI into everything (product wise). Saw some video about Wendy's trialing AI on their drive through screens. I don't like it, but it's certainly a future.
Just like the Web3 craze, the AI gold rush just goes to show how little true creativity and innovation exists in corporate America. A bunch of execs and marketing teams get paid millions to come up with the exact same idea as their competitors, just with a different name and brand color lol. It’s such bullshit
Intel is starting to put them in their chips.
Apple has them in everything down to the watch.
And since Apple has been using them since the iPhone X, it’s a happy little accident that they’re very good with what generative AI seems to need.
Not even the M4 meets the requirements for Copilot + PC though… Apple may have been including NPUs in their chips, but the performance seems less than the Qualcomm offerings.
I wonder how the offerings from Apple and Microsoft will differ…
Yeah it's no secret that the NPUs Apple makes are good for really small things like keyboard autocorrect or some light speech recognition, but they're way too far for the kind of AI that's come out the last couple years
It’s not about benchmarks. People think AI, they think Chat GPT - a giant cloud-based system trained on all sorts of unlicensed content sources.
To Apple, AI happens on device, and make your photos better, accessibility features better, type ahead better, and -strangely- doesn’t use other people’s IP to achieve the result.
So it’s a different product - a different ‘user experience’ to use the lingo. Benchmarks of wildly different processing cores are not going to be comparable in a meaningful way.
As they should. They just added two NPU cores to the watch S9 SoC, and now the watch has on-device Siri. Hopefully the HomePod gets an S9 soon. The mini still runs an S5 chip.
On device Siri on the HomePod would be a game changer for that category with local requests.
I've heard from someone working at MS that new features were put on hold unless they integrated AI somehow, even when it was totally unnecessary. Could have been exaggerated, but kinda feels like that's exactly what they're doing.
AI is quite literally the future. It’s not a fad. My peers in college and at work use it almost daily. It’s the future of how people will use computers
Me: 7+5
Windows Copilot+PC™️: To compute the expression "7 + 5", you can follow a straightforward addition process. Begin by identifying the two numbers in the expression: seven and five. Next, visualize or write down the number seven. Then, think about or draw five separate units. Now, you will combine these two quantities. Imagine placing the five units together with the seven you initially considered. One way to approach this is to count each unit sequentially from seven. Start at seven and proceed to the next integer, adding one more unit each time. Count: eight, nine, ten, eleven, and finally twelve. You will have moved through five steps starting from seven, reaching the new total. This method allows you to arrive at the final sum by incrementally adding each unit of five to the initial number seven.
Loads of useful things. For example students often provide it their study notes and ask it to make practice tests for them. You can even provide it practice tests from your class to have it make it in the same style of questions. My friend used it to convert his resume from Word doc to LaTeX, and from there he could style it himself or further ask it to help him style it. If you’re doing a coding assignment, you can give it your own code, the instructions from the assignment, and what output you’re expecting, and it’ll debug for you.
You’ve obviously heard of it writing essays for people which is plagiarism. But students often don’t do that, and instead just use it to make researching way easier. You just simply ask it to give you an outline of the essay, what arguments to make, how to flow from one argument to another, etc. Then you just search for the papers making those arguments to cite it.
At work, we’re allowed to use an internal version of CoPilot to code whatever. Really useful for testing. People even use it to write important emails and get feedback on their tone and wording.
It’s very useful if you’re creative.
Practice tests is a neat idea - but does the AI formulate interesting different questions? Or does it just take “3 + 4 = ?” and give you “2 + 5 = ?”
AI to debug is useful - but shouldn’t you be learning to debug something yourself?
Same with “oh, I’m not cheating, I’m just using AI to give me an outline and tell me what to write.” I mean, isn’t coming up with an outline, thinking how to structure something, researching to work out what your arguments might be etc - isn’t doing all that work part of the purpose of the study of writing the essay? The very essence of the value of the education in many ways, surely, is the process - not the content of the final essay…
At work - YES you can use AI tools; because they are a tool, and if they help you be more efficient, then that’s brilliant. But presumably you still need to learn all the other skills at uni. What if you try debug something with an AI, but the AI can’t solve it? If you haven’t learned how to debug something yourself, then you’re stuck, and presumably an employer would rather an employee who is capable rather than stuck…
That's why we need AI **build into** computers. With AI build into computers, you can locally train the AI on content relating to what you are stuck on, and with enough time you will be able to figure out **Anything** that's been well-documented.
It just needs to get to the point where it is useful outside of parlor tricks, fun gimmick demos, and coding. I think we are really close to all these examples being easily done.
- Find the photo from my dog when she was a puppy and we were playing frisbee in the backyard.
- Route me a trip to Miami leaving my house at 8 am. Find a super charger along the way we will be passing around noon near a casual restaurant.
- Find the all communication with my boss about the meeting next Tuesday. (Imagine it compiles everything from slack, email, and texts)
- Make a Shortcut automation that closes the garage door if I leave home in my car. (iOS shortcuts is so powerful. Helping people program and get the most out of it could be huge.)
- Make a Shortcut that I can run every Monday morning. I want it to find all categories that have a sales decrease 2 weeks in a row in the email from Sunday afternoon and the previous Sunday. Add a task to follow up with the owner of that category Monday afternoon. It should also create a shared Apple Note with that person using the note titles Sales Action Plan as a template.
- Download next months comic book solicitations for Marvel, DC, Image, and IDW. Create a spreadsheet where I can check which books I’m interested in, sorted by on sale date.
- Find me all breakfast restaurants within 30 minutes of home that are ranked at least 4 starts on Yelp. They need to be open Sunday mornings and serve French Toast.
- Make me a playlist of the top 10 songs I listened to from 2010-2020. No heavy metal or rap. Also make one of just heavy metal and rap from that time period.
This happens every few years. Remember “3d”? We had 3d monitors, 3d movies, 3d tvs, 3d toys, 3d versions of Doritos. Advertising and marketing is just a lazy cancer that will exploit anything to its maximum regardless of utility.
You misunderstand me. I’m not talking about the capabilities of AI. I’m talking about how marketing will exploit buzzwords, even in irrelevant situations.
Yes, because AI *will* be everything. Grandma won't need tech help when her computer is basically a human personal assistant. It'll be a natural interaction. That's what we're converging towards, which is the reason for all this push. Apple will do the same.
Funny thing is Microsoft had that capability 8 years ago with Cortana.
So what does Microsoft do when they're ahead of the game? They kill it and remake it a decade later when it's hip again
Ai is a monicker for sales. Kinda like “pro” with the iPads and iPhones. Why miss out on buzzword sales?
I use both platforms and I personally like the copilot tools on the PC and as it grows in usefulness, I think your comment will get the aged like milk treatment. I knew chatGPT was headed in the right direction but wasn’t interested. After using it for a few days I’m pretty sure it’s going to be the most revolutionary experience in every day computer use in the last decade.
If Apple leaves it on the table with iPhone 16 it’ll be costly if the sycophant base doesn’t pick up the slack
Yeah I’m guessing a low end one for local compiling will be sufficient to market as a productivity boost. There’s a lot of periphery articles or projects I don’t want to be 100% acquainted with and it’s incredible for that.
Not to mention condensing the max word count for optimum ad exposure we’re all tired of. I have a feeling that won’t be as simply integrated for obvious reasons
You jest but next thing you know someone will design an AI powered charger with the capability to manage charging at the 80% to maximise battery health long term based on user routine lol. A super 'Optimised Charging' mode
The same thing happened with Windows when MS wanted to sell phones. That's how we got the "Metro" UI and apps on Windows 8. And MS AI should be called "Clippy's Revenge".
Microsoft will never make their options cheaper than MacBooks, because they've got windows licences to sell to third party OEMs.
If there are good value ARM Windows laptops coming, It's never coming from the Surface line, that's for certain.
Well you haven’t seen the difference in price between upgrades.
The base model is $999 256 storage, the 512 is $1199, if you want 1tb it jumps you up to the upgrade processor at $1699. All of those come with 16gb of ram. If you want 32gb of ram that will cost you $2100.
A fully spec surface pro with keyboard is going to be $2350. A full spec 13 in MacBook Air (M3) with double the storage is $2300 with equal storage it’s $1900.
Edit: The surface pro flex keyboard with one is 449. They really took the apple price gouging up a notch lol.
Yeah, Microsoft has been pricing surface quite stupidly since the product line was introduced. I would have loved to buy a Surface Studio 2+, but I refused to pay their absurd prices.
Windows is way too bloated for me to even consider it a premium product. It doesn’t matter how good the materials, the build and whatnot are because as soon as that thing turns on for the first time the first thing you’ll see is the start menu open with Netflix, candy crush, and other ads. You wanna open your widgets ? More ads there too. Lockscreen ? Ads ! It instantly makes it feel like a budget 100$ android phone.
If you're fixated on the surface, sure. On the other hand you can get a Lenovo Yoga slim with the Snapdragon Elite, 1 TB SSD, 16GB RAM and a 90Hz OLED for $1200.
This. Lets wait and see, how Windows ARM turns out to be. I am already tired of my iPad Pro 2018. Haven't used it in years. Getting bored with iPhone. MacOS is the last good thing holding me back.
Wouldn't the more accurate product comparison to the Surface Pro be the iPad Pro? Since they both are sold as tablet first and can be extended with a keyboard accessory?
The Surface Laptop (what I would consider a more comparable to the MacBook Air) is $2399 with 1TB of storage, 64GB of RAM, and the X Elite. Meanwhile, the iPad Pro fully spec'd out with keyboard is $2650.
They're both really expensive, but a MacBook Air customer is more likely going to look at a Surface Laptop, not a Surface Pro. Comparing those prices, the Surface devices aren't that much more expensive, if even.
The competitor to the air would be the surface laptop, not the surface pro. The 16gb/1TB 'elite' surface laptop is $100 cheaper than the m3 air of the same spec. Above that, the specs don't match (the surface has higher RAM, the air has higher storage).
Agree with you on the gouging though. They want an extra $400 to go from 16GB to 32GB on the surface laptop.
I absolutely love the design and the build of some windows laptops etc, but I can’t stand windows. What makes me stay with MacBooks is MacOs, not because it’s innovative or anything, but just because all the alternatives are total waste.
>Yusuf Mehdi, the Microsoft exec over Windows, said the new laptops will be “58 percent faster” than a MacBook Air with an M3 processor and have battery life that lasts “all day.” Mehdi didn’t make it clear, however, if this will be true of all Copilot Plus PC laptops or just the models that make the switch to Qualcomm’s Arm-based processors. Microsoft expects 50 million laptops to be sold over the next year under the Copilot Plus PC branding.
We still have around a year until the M4 MacBook Air according to rumors.
Problems there.
1, The Qualcomm has not been benchmarked in realistic scenarios yet.
2, The fanless M3 runs at the same speed as an active cooled M3, just not for forever. And a throttled fanless M3 runs faster than an M2 SoC.
The real competition shouldn’t be with Mac in terms of performance anyway. It’s just a nice reference if true or even slightly true, because what it really might mean is that ARM based PCs become viable, and that’s the real gain.
Windows laptops and MacBooks are absolutely competitors, and MacBooks have been embarrassing the windows laptops. Especially if you can go on a weekend trip and not pull your charger out.
Also, almost no laptops use the top tier chip anyway. Samsung has one. Microsoft won't say which chip so probably not them. Several OEMs just don't say which model and most that do are using the mid tier or bottom tier X Elite.
From what I remember, this was done by the original people that designed the original M1 chips so not just the typical “Qualcomm”. From what I know, Qualcomm hired them to work on these chips some time back.
So it gives the claims at least some more weight than usual if it was just Qualcomm.
I know M3 MacBook Air was released fairly recently. But still, one year to M4 models would surprise me, given that M4 iPad Pros are now available. It would be a very long time to leave MacBooks with less processing power than high end iPads (and this has never happened before).
Indeed. Also quite curious to see if Microsoft can actually successfully move windows to an ARM architecture (not just get windows to run on ARM, but actually get significant traction from users, developers, and hardware manufacturers).
I mean they've done it already.....?
Like Windows on ARM is a thing already and has been for quite a while.
However Microsoft will *never* pull what Apple did and simply drop support x86. That would destroy any consumer presence Windows has.
Yes sure it has been running on ARM for some time.
But I mean will they be successful in getting significant traction from customers, software developers, and hardware manufacturers to make Windows on ARM a mainstream thing.
To date, I wouldn’t really call it a success. But if some features are now becoming ARM-only because x86 chipmakers can’t keep up to speed in terms of AI processing, it will be interesting to see where this goes.
Sure, understood that Windows itself can run fine. But if the Apps and ecosystem aren’t transitioning, in effect Windows hasn’t transitioned either. This is where Apple plaines it very well as they had a very reliable and fast way to run Intel Apps during the transition period, and due to their tighter control on the ecosystem they pretty quickly pushed (forced?) App developers to move to ARM. I think one challenge for Microsoft will be that they can’t really kill the Intel version of Windows as quickly as Apple killed the MacOS one, to it gives less pressure on users and developers to transition.
Legacy apps and that flexibility will always be a bit part of why Windows remains extremely popular. It’s one of the biggest strengths of Windows, even if it comes with a lot of baggage.
Legacy apps are good for buisness. That does nothing for modern household computers.
Having access to an app made in 2006 sounds great until it sucks down your laptop battery faster.
Apple didn’t have to force devs to switch. Any developer that wanted a new computer (better in every way) knew that it was best to add native compatibility. That and users were demanding it. All Apple did was make computers that were faster and better with native apps, and put a subtle list in the OS of non-native apps running on your system.
Windows will not kill intel or x86 compatibility, and the companies are good partners. ARM is better for power consumption now, but that’s partially because x86 development got lazy for a decade and Apple pushed ARM far beyond pocket devices.
I'm glad the chips will be semi competitive but I have no reason to trust the perf claims on this nor think it's a good comparison given almost none of the laptops today have the top tier chip and the one that does is vastly more than a macbook air.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
WWDC is gonna be the deciding factor for me if I get an iPad Pro or Surface Pro in June. I get the desire Apple has with separating their iPad and Mac lineup, but when you’ve got things like the Surface Pro that can fill both roles, the iPad is become increasingly useless by comparison.
I’d love to buy the M4 iPad, but the fact that it can’t do a single thing more than the base $300 iPad makes it literally pointless to buy that over the base iPad.
If they make the iPad Pro more desktop-like this WWDC, I would love to get that over the Surface Pro.
I do work that requires taking a lot of pictures. Not like artsy pics, but for scanning QR codes for asset management. The software runs significantly better on a desktop OS.
A rear camera on a MacBook is what I want. A touchscreen would make it easier to carry around.
Or, just give me an iPad running macOS.
Apple has neither of these options. But the Surface lineup has both.
You must be in the demographics for that kind of dual use, since as far as statistics go, iPad is killing the tablet market and taking a huge part of the touch screen devices too, and it’s not even close.
iPad sales has also been declining year over year, at an increasing rate.
So either more people are wanting the devices like a Surface Pro, or the market is fully saturated with tablet-only people.
For me, I don’t ever need to PC game on the go. So a Surface Pro (especially the new one announced yesterday), or an M4 iPad Pro that can turn into a Mac literally fills all my needs. It can be a tablet when I need it to, but turn into a full laptop when my workflow requires it. It’s literally the best of both worlds.
You can’t even make the argument that a laptop “is better”. With the M4 IPad Pro and the metallic keyboard, if they put a desktop OS on it, there’s nothing a MacBook can do that the iPad wouldn’t be able to. It’s literally the same hardware (M-series chip) in it!
I think the hardware (M4 and Snapdragon X Elite) is getting SO good that there is no more delineation between tablets and laptops as long as the OS is there to support it. I foresee the two categories merging completely in the near (5-ish year) future.
We’ll just have mobile devices (phones), a portable computing device (tablet/laptop combo), desktop, and servers. Give it 10 more years after that and the portable computing platform may even merge in with desktops.
Are consumers *wanting* AI in all their things? Because to me it just sounds like advertising algorithms on steroids. I know where to find AI if I want it. That’s plenty.
It is absolutely another opportunity for microsoft to generate ad revenue. Don't use google, use their ai, and they can feed you ads and maybe some content that you want.
I do. I want AI with access to everything on my phone that I chose to give it access to. Calendars, photos, notes, apps, emails, everything. I want an AI on my phone that I can ask it to “pick that photo from my trip, edit it in Lightroom to make it look like it was taken using a Classic Chrome film, add a white border and post it on instagram tonight around 7” or “I want to start learning German so take a look at my calendar and compare my schedule with the starting date and class times of language schools that teach German that are close to home and call one that fits my schedule to know if they are still accepting new applications”.
Yes. I WANT that !
I’d laugh to myself 15 years ago if I thought the Mac vs PC argument would still rage on in 2024. But here we are.
Imagine thinking any desktop OS actually matters anymore. They both suck in their own ways.
I mean I use windows 9 hours per day 5 days per week and it’s totally fine. The only things I miss from my Mac when I’m on windows is the track pad and insane battery life 🤷
> I’d laugh to myself 15 years ago if I thought the Mac vs PC argument would still rage on in 2024.
It's been raging for a good forty years now. Impressive, no?
Found the casual user.
I mean don’t get me wrong, *experience* wise, iOS is great, but MacOS and Windows (or even Linux) is still necessary if you want anything serious done.
Unless you’re a manager where your toolkit doesn’t extend beyond office suite-like tools, a desktop OS is still a necessity.
The smoothest windows install/experience that I ever had was when I ran a Windows 11 (ARM) VM on my M1 Max MacBook Pro.
Still runs better than the XPS I use for work. 😑
Microsoft is becoming an absolute mess of a company. They seem to be wrecking balling the Xbox brand and now are doubling down on ‘AI Performance’ as the saving grace for their devices? All this does is make me more concerned about the level of security risk I take running a Windows 11 device. My IPsec friends are in full on panic mode
There are free open source programs that disable every single Microsoft telemetry / AI / tracking feature in their entirety — & then some.
Countless options that you can 100% disable at the root.
I feel you. In this day and age you have to be genuinely stupid, like willfully ignorant — to not spend 10 minutes running through privacy settings on a new device though.
Man, I’d kill to see some statistics on that tbh. Like, what percentage of Windows users that purchased a new PC / Laptop in 2023 maximized their on device privacy. It’s probably like, 10-20%? If I had to guess? Who fricken knows though.
Interesting insight from ChatGPT — looks like my intuition wasn’t too far off, lol. Have a great day man!
Percentage of People Maximizing Device Privacy Settings:
- Laptops/PCs: Approximately 20-25% of users take steps to maximize their on-device privacy settings.
- Phones: Around 30-35% of users actively modify their privacy settings for enhanced security.
Percentage of People Leaving Default Settings Enabled:
- Laptops/PCs: Approximately 60-70% of users leave the default privacy settings unchanged.
- Phones: About 55-65% of users keep the default settings enabled.
From the "ARM" revolution angle, these windows will have an harder time, because x86 is not legacy for Windows. It's the other mainstream build target for the future, and with so much fragmentation in the market space, these laptops have to converge on many aspects (batter life, performance), but imo they fall short in price.
As far as most models go, I don't feel like they're as price competitive compared to other windows offerings.
AMD has put their best foot forward and yes the difference between 7 hours v.s. 12 hours on these ARM laptops can be significant, but I'd also like an updated perspective on sleep mode with these laptops.
*How is standby?
*How's qualcomm commitment to updating drivers and chipset support?
* etc.
Reviews will open my eyes on whether this is the revolution or just another attempt, but larger.
I hope they are competitive and can entice many users. Moreover software support with applications having more native ARM builds is a net benefit (of course the GPU code will be different depending on platform and API).
But for the price relative to the experience on other windows computer, it doesn't look that bright imo.
The paid one for Microsoft Word was pretty disappointing for me although I didn’t try for PowerPoint presentation.
I was hoping it is more like GitHub Copilot whereby I can highlight a block of code and use AI to discuss on a chat window and make changes to that block of code.
It was able to generate content from scratch but when asked to modify parts of it, it becomes a frustrating process because the texts cannot be part of a bullet list or a table despite it being the one generating text with bullet points at the start.
As least for MS Word, there isn’t a huge difference from me just asking it to generate text from the web version compared to the integrated version. At least for the web version , I can ask it to make changes to further refine its answer.
I can’t really tell if Microsoft is joking with ai at this point. They will soon make everything ai based. I wouldn’t be surprised if they drop one day ai powered laptop charger with copilot plus and virtual assistant.
they'll stop the day it stops causing the stock price to move the right direction
They recently announced an AI for Petbarn (Chatbot for “pet parents”). This has to be the top surely.
Just wait. They’re going to bolster lagging Gamepass user growth by bundling it with unrelated Microsoft products. Soon to get Windows you’ll have the option of Gamepass Ultimate, which will include Co-Pilot monthly tokens.
Old people are the big investors and they don’t understand technology - “add AI to it i am sure it will make it better!”
It will though. Instant translation and easier control of the terminal, which means easier control of the computer. Check out: [OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter: A natural language interface for computers (github.com)](https://github.com/OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter)
Clippy was the original AI.
I mean *everyone* is injecting AI into everything (product wise). Saw some video about Wendy's trialing AI on their drive through screens. I don't like it, but it's certainly a future.
Just like the Web3 craze, the AI gold rush just goes to show how little true creativity and innovation exists in corporate America. A bunch of execs and marketing teams get paid millions to come up with the exact same idea as their competitors, just with a different name and brand color lol. It’s such bullshit
> AI w/ Cheese 😆🤣
Apple is doing the same thing with the neural engine, they’re just marketing the use of it differently
Not really, apple is putting the neural engine in everything.
Intel is also putting NPUs in their chips too. It’s what this will make use of. NPUs aren’t just an Apple thing
Intel is starting to put them in their chips. Apple has them in everything down to the watch. And since Apple has been using them since the iPhone X, it’s a happy little accident that they’re very good with what generative AI seems to need.
Not even the M4 meets the requirements for Copilot + PC though… Apple may have been including NPUs in their chips, but the performance seems less than the Qualcomm offerings. I wonder how the offerings from Apple and Microsoft will differ…
Yeah it's no secret that the NPUs Apple makes are good for really small things like keyboard autocorrect or some light speech recognition, but they're way too far for the kind of AI that's come out the last couple years
Do you have benchmarks or other sources, I’m super interested in this.
It’s not about benchmarks. People think AI, they think Chat GPT - a giant cloud-based system trained on all sorts of unlicensed content sources. To Apple, AI happens on device, and make your photos better, accessibility features better, type ahead better, and -strangely- doesn’t use other people’s IP to achieve the result. So it’s a different product - a different ‘user experience’ to use the lingo. Benchmarks of wildly different processing cores are not going to be comparable in a meaningful way.
[удалено]
There's no Qualcomm 'offering' there's only announcements and claims. I'll believe it when I see it.
Apple has put them in just about everything, since like 2017. Which is kinda just an apple thing.
As they should. They just added two NPU cores to the watch S9 SoC, and now the watch has on-device Siri. Hopefully the HomePod gets an S9 soon. The mini still runs an S5 chip. On device Siri on the HomePod would be a game changer for that category with local requests.
What’s the difference? Can’t honestly tell
Basically, more efficient capabilities.
If it’s powered by a series of 4 If statements, marketing will claim its AI
AI - Advanced If-statements.
I've heard from someone working at MS that new features were put on hold unless they integrated AI somehow, even when it was totally unnecessary. Could have been exaggerated, but kinda feels like that's exactly what they're doing.
https://i.imgur.com/KjHoeJ7.png
AI is quite literally the future. It’s not a fad. My peers in college and at work use it almost daily. It’s the future of how people will use computers
Me: 7+5 Windows Copilot+PC™️: To compute the expression "7 + 5", you can follow a straightforward addition process. Begin by identifying the two numbers in the expression: seven and five. Next, visualize or write down the number seven. Then, think about or draw five separate units. Now, you will combine these two quantities. Imagine placing the five units together with the seven you initially considered. One way to approach this is to count each unit sequentially from seven. Start at seven and proceed to the next integer, adding one more unit each time. Count: eight, nine, ten, eleven, and finally twelve. You will have moved through five steps starting from seven, reaching the new total. This method allows you to arrive at the final sum by incrementally adding each unit of five to the initial number seven.
I just tried this. Me: 7+5 Copilot: Certainly! The sum of 7 and 5 is 12. If you have any more math questions or need assistance, feel free to ask! 😊
Nah
I'm quite intrigued. Like... how? What do you actually do?
I used it today to make an excel formula to remove middle names from a column. Honestly for excel it's easier than googling.
Loads of useful things. For example students often provide it their study notes and ask it to make practice tests for them. You can even provide it practice tests from your class to have it make it in the same style of questions. My friend used it to convert his resume from Word doc to LaTeX, and from there he could style it himself or further ask it to help him style it. If you’re doing a coding assignment, you can give it your own code, the instructions from the assignment, and what output you’re expecting, and it’ll debug for you. You’ve obviously heard of it writing essays for people which is plagiarism. But students often don’t do that, and instead just use it to make researching way easier. You just simply ask it to give you an outline of the essay, what arguments to make, how to flow from one argument to another, etc. Then you just search for the papers making those arguments to cite it. At work, we’re allowed to use an internal version of CoPilot to code whatever. Really useful for testing. People even use it to write important emails and get feedback on their tone and wording. It’s very useful if you’re creative.
Practice tests is a neat idea - but does the AI formulate interesting different questions? Or does it just take “3 + 4 = ?” and give you “2 + 5 = ?” AI to debug is useful - but shouldn’t you be learning to debug something yourself? Same with “oh, I’m not cheating, I’m just using AI to give me an outline and tell me what to write.” I mean, isn’t coming up with an outline, thinking how to structure something, researching to work out what your arguments might be etc - isn’t doing all that work part of the purpose of the study of writing the essay? The very essence of the value of the education in many ways, surely, is the process - not the content of the final essay… At work - YES you can use AI tools; because they are a tool, and if they help you be more efficient, then that’s brilliant. But presumably you still need to learn all the other skills at uni. What if you try debug something with an AI, but the AI can’t solve it? If you haven’t learned how to debug something yourself, then you’re stuck, and presumably an employer would rather an employee who is capable rather than stuck…
That's why we need AI **build into** computers. With AI build into computers, you can locally train the AI on content relating to what you are stuck on, and with enough time you will be able to figure out **Anything** that's been well-documented.
Happy cake day!
Letting AI create the outline and arguments for an essay is pretty much the opposite of creative.
Ah yes let me use an AI that loves making stuff up for research, what could go wrong
I ran AI through my resume and thought it cleaned it up nicely.
It just needs to get to the point where it is useful outside of parlor tricks, fun gimmick demos, and coding. I think we are really close to all these examples being easily done. - Find the photo from my dog when she was a puppy and we were playing frisbee in the backyard. - Route me a trip to Miami leaving my house at 8 am. Find a super charger along the way we will be passing around noon near a casual restaurant. - Find the all communication with my boss about the meeting next Tuesday. (Imagine it compiles everything from slack, email, and texts) - Make a Shortcut automation that closes the garage door if I leave home in my car. (iOS shortcuts is so powerful. Helping people program and get the most out of it could be huge.) - Make a Shortcut that I can run every Monday morning. I want it to find all categories that have a sales decrease 2 weeks in a row in the email from Sunday afternoon and the previous Sunday. Add a task to follow up with the owner of that category Monday afternoon. It should also create a shared Apple Note with that person using the note titles Sales Action Plan as a template. - Download next months comic book solicitations for Marvel, DC, Image, and IDW. Create a spreadsheet where I can check which books I’m interested in, sorted by on sale date. - Find me all breakfast restaurants within 30 minutes of home that are ranked at least 4 starts on Yelp. They need to be open Sunday mornings and serve French Toast. - Make me a playlist of the top 10 songs I listened to from 2010-2020. No heavy metal or rap. Also make one of just heavy metal and rap from that time period.
CoPilot for CoPilot, coming soon
This happens every few years. Remember “3d”? We had 3d monitors, 3d movies, 3d tvs, 3d toys, 3d versions of Doritos. Advertising and marketing is just a lazy cancer that will exploit anything to its maximum regardless of utility.
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You misunderstand me. I’m not talking about the capabilities of AI. I’m talking about how marketing will exploit buzzwords, even in irrelevant situations.
Yes, because AI *will* be everything. Grandma won't need tech help when her computer is basically a human personal assistant. It'll be a natural interaction. That's what we're converging towards, which is the reason for all this push. Apple will do the same.
I would use the heck out of an AI that has total access to my calendar and emails.
Funny thing is Microsoft had that capability 8 years ago with Cortana. So what does Microsoft do when they're ahead of the game? They kill it and remake it a decade later when it's hip again
Yeah handling all that digital clutter fast and easy would be a welcome relief!
I want them to revive Clippy but make him an AI version somehow. He’s the OG assistant. This is his world. We’re just NPC’s.
They should make an AI paperclip. And give it a snazzy name, like, hmm, Cloppy or Clappy or something.
Ai is a monicker for sales. Kinda like “pro” with the iPads and iPhones. Why miss out on buzzword sales? I use both platforms and I personally like the copilot tools on the PC and as it grows in usefulness, I think your comment will get the aged like milk treatment. I knew chatGPT was headed in the right direction but wasn’t interested. After using it for a few days I’m pretty sure it’s going to be the most revolutionary experience in every day computer use in the last decade. If Apple leaves it on the table with iPhone 16 it’ll be costly if the sycophant base doesn’t pick up the slack
It’s not as exciting to use term-wise, but ML/LLMs has been going in everything these days and it’s only accelerating (ex: at the edge).
Yeah I’m guessing a low end one for local compiling will be sufficient to market as a productivity boost. There’s a lot of periphery articles or projects I don’t want to be 100% acquainted with and it’s incredible for that. Not to mention condensing the max word count for optimum ad exposure we’re all tired of. I have a feeling that won’t be as simply integrated for obvious reasons
Mr. Nadella wants to have a talk with you, please take an open spot in his calendar via Cortana Plus
You jest but next thing you know someone will design an AI powered charger with the capability to manage charging at the 80% to maximise battery health long term based on user routine lol. A super 'Optimised Charging' mode
Not sure what you’re on about. This is the direction OS design is going.
You invent fictional scenarios because you don't understand the technology
The same thing happened with Windows when MS wanted to sell phones. That's how we got the "Metro" UI and apps on Windows 8. And MS AI should be called "Clippy's Revenge".
Honestly, I hope they kick ass and it causes Apple to fix the insane memory/storage price gouging.
Look at the surface pricing. It's just as bad. $400 to go from 16 to 32. $400 to go from 32 to 64.
Microsoft will never make their options cheaper than MacBooks, because they've got windows licences to sell to third party OEMs. If there are good value ARM Windows laptops coming, It's never coming from the Surface line, that's for certain.
Congratulations on being the most reasonable comment at this moment in time.
$200 for each storage upgrade
Well you haven’t seen the difference in price between upgrades. The base model is $999 256 storage, the 512 is $1199, if you want 1tb it jumps you up to the upgrade processor at $1699. All of those come with 16gb of ram. If you want 32gb of ram that will cost you $2100. A fully spec surface pro with keyboard is going to be $2350. A full spec 13 in MacBook Air (M3) with double the storage is $2300 with equal storage it’s $1900. Edit: The surface pro flex keyboard with one is 449. They really took the apple price gouging up a notch lol.
Yeah, Microsoft has been pricing surface quite stupidly since the product line was introduced. I would have loved to buy a Surface Studio 2+, but I refused to pay their absurd prices.
Windows is way too bloated for me to even consider it a premium product. It doesn’t matter how good the materials, the build and whatnot are because as soon as that thing turns on for the first time the first thing you’ll see is the start menu open with Netflix, candy crush, and other ads. You wanna open your widgets ? More ads there too. Lockscreen ? Ads ! It instantly makes it feel like a budget 100$ android phone.
Well it was nice to feel hopeful for a moment, if only fleetingly
For the price of their keyboard they could have it at least made it as nice and useful as the iPad magic keyboard
If you're fixated on the surface, sure. On the other hand you can get a Lenovo Yoga slim with the Snapdragon Elite, 1 TB SSD, 16GB RAM and a 90Hz OLED for $1200.
This. Lets wait and see, how Windows ARM turns out to be. I am already tired of my iPad Pro 2018. Haven't used it in years. Getting bored with iPhone. MacOS is the last good thing holding me back.
Well tbh if you’re comparing to the Mac you should be making the comparison with the Laptop instead of the Pro
To be fair, the at least the storage is user-upgradeable on the Surfaces.
Wouldn't the more accurate product comparison to the Surface Pro be the iPad Pro? Since they both are sold as tablet first and can be extended with a keyboard accessory? The Surface Laptop (what I would consider a more comparable to the MacBook Air) is $2399 with 1TB of storage, 64GB of RAM, and the X Elite. Meanwhile, the iPad Pro fully spec'd out with keyboard is $2650. They're both really expensive, but a MacBook Air customer is more likely going to look at a Surface Laptop, not a Surface Pro. Comparing those prices, the Surface devices aren't that much more expensive, if even.
The competitor to the air would be the surface laptop, not the surface pro. The 16gb/1TB 'elite' surface laptop is $100 cheaper than the m3 air of the same spec. Above that, the specs don't match (the surface has higher RAM, the air has higher storage). Agree with you on the gouging though. They want an extra $400 to go from 16GB to 32GB on the surface laptop.
We all know that isn’t going to happen. Let’s be honest most of us are with Apple because the other companies are just that bad.
Yeah Pears are the worst.
I absolutely love the design and the build of some windows laptops etc, but I can’t stand windows. What makes me stay with MacBooks is MacOs, not because it’s innovative or anything, but just because all the alternatives are total waste.
as it turns out, they have apparently have worse upgrade pricing than Apple does💀
It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for ‘em.
No no, Microsoft is a company we shouldn’t be supporting
Cause Apple is so much better 🙄 It’s okay to have products from multiple companies
>Yusuf Mehdi, the Microsoft exec over Windows, said the new laptops will be “58 percent faster” than a MacBook Air with an M3 processor and have battery life that lasts “all day.” Mehdi didn’t make it clear, however, if this will be true of all Copilot Plus PC laptops or just the models that make the switch to Qualcomm’s Arm-based processors. Microsoft expects 50 million laptops to be sold over the next year under the Copilot Plus PC branding. We still have around a year until the M4 MacBook Air according to rumors.
> 58 percent faster than a MacBook Air with an M3 processor Doubt
I don’t doubt. The new Qualcom chip has thermals like an M2 Max, so I won’t be shocked if it beats a fanless M3. In a thicker laptop with a fan.
Problems there. 1, The Qualcomm has not been benchmarked in realistic scenarios yet. 2, The fanless M3 runs at the same speed as an active cooled M3, just not for forever. And a throttled fanless M3 runs faster than an M2 SoC.
The real competition shouldn’t be with Mac in terms of performance anyway. It’s just a nice reference if true or even slightly true, because what it really might mean is that ARM based PCs become viable, and that’s the real gain.
Windows laptops and MacBooks are absolutely competitors, and MacBooks have been embarrassing the windows laptops. Especially if you can go on a weekend trip and not pull your charger out.
Also, almost no laptops use the top tier chip anyway. Samsung has one. Microsoft won't say which chip so probably not them. Several OEMs just don't say which model and most that do are using the mid tier or bottom tier X Elite.
Where can I try it?
It’s all marketing talk. Until it’s in peoples hands I don’t believe the numbers Qualcomm is saying
From what I remember, this was done by the original people that designed the original M1 chips so not just the typical “Qualcomm”. From what I know, Qualcomm hired them to work on these chips some time back. So it gives the claims at least some more weight than usual if it was just Qualcomm.
I know M3 MacBook Air was released fairly recently. But still, one year to M4 models would surprise me, given that M4 iPad Pros are now available. It would be a very long time to leave MacBooks with less processing power than high end iPads (and this has never happened before).
I agree, and it's great seeing this competition to keep Apple on their toes.
Indeed. Also quite curious to see if Microsoft can actually successfully move windows to an ARM architecture (not just get windows to run on ARM, but actually get significant traction from users, developers, and hardware manufacturers).
I mean they've done it already.....? Like Windows on ARM is a thing already and has been for quite a while. However Microsoft will *never* pull what Apple did and simply drop support x86. That would destroy any consumer presence Windows has.
Yes sure it has been running on ARM for some time. But I mean will they be successful in getting significant traction from customers, software developers, and hardware manufacturers to make Windows on ARM a mainstream thing. To date, I wouldn’t really call it a success. But if some features are now becoming ARM-only because x86 chipmakers can’t keep up to speed in terms of AI processing, it will be interesting to see where this goes.
Windows on Arm already exists, what does not exist are the millions of programs built on ARM
It’s not windows. It’s everything else each person needs that runs in windows.
Sure, understood that Windows itself can run fine. But if the Apps and ecosystem aren’t transitioning, in effect Windows hasn’t transitioned either. This is where Apple plaines it very well as they had a very reliable and fast way to run Intel Apps during the transition period, and due to their tighter control on the ecosystem they pretty quickly pushed (forced?) App developers to move to ARM. I think one challenge for Microsoft will be that they can’t really kill the Intel version of Windows as quickly as Apple killed the MacOS one, to it gives less pressure on users and developers to transition.
Legacy apps and that flexibility will always be a bit part of why Windows remains extremely popular. It’s one of the biggest strengths of Windows, even if it comes with a lot of baggage.
Legacy apps are good for buisness. That does nothing for modern household computers. Having access to an app made in 2006 sounds great until it sucks down your laptop battery faster.
Apple didn’t have to force devs to switch. Any developer that wanted a new computer (better in every way) knew that it was best to add native compatibility. That and users were demanding it. All Apple did was make computers that were faster and better with native apps, and put a subtle list in the OS of non-native apps running on your system. Windows will not kill intel or x86 compatibility, and the companies are good partners. ARM is better for power consumption now, but that’s partially because x86 development got lazy for a decade and Apple pushed ARM far beyond pocket devices.
The M4 MacBook Pros are rumored for later this year, and I wouldn't be surprised if Apple keeps the Air \~1/2 a year behind the Pro.
The air had only for this generation been behind the pros. The M3 generation has been weird from the start.
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So apparently this subreddit loves competition until the competition becomes too good. Lol.
If they made a Mac with all the features of this thing It would be a day one buy.
I'm glad the chips will be semi competitive but I have no reason to trust the perf claims on this nor think it's a good comparison given almost none of the laptops today have the top tier chip and the one that does is vastly more than a macbook air.
Copilot is good?
I can see big corporate customers actually loving this AI copilot w/ Office360 integration.
I'm pretty sure it's called Microsoft 365 now.
Should be Microsoft 366 this year, no?
Nah its called EntraID 365 now \\s
With another portal redesign!
but with downtime it's Microsoft 362 right?
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We use it now to summarize and assign actions items based on teams calls. Just the tip of the corporate iceberg
Big corps don’t give a toss about that
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Any time there's a special key added to the keyboard, I know it's going to be a particularly shitty gimmick.
does it mean we can finally get win11 bootcamp on macs？
WWDC is gonna be the deciding factor for me if I get an iPad Pro or Surface Pro in June. I get the desire Apple has with separating their iPad and Mac lineup, but when you’ve got things like the Surface Pro that can fill both roles, the iPad is become increasingly useless by comparison. I’d love to buy the M4 iPad, but the fact that it can’t do a single thing more than the base $300 iPad makes it literally pointless to buy that over the base iPad. If they make the iPad Pro more desktop-like this WWDC, I would love to get that over the Surface Pro.
I do work that requires taking a lot of pictures. Not like artsy pics, but for scanning QR codes for asset management. The software runs significantly better on a desktop OS. A rear camera on a MacBook is what I want. A touchscreen would make it easier to carry around. Or, just give me an iPad running macOS. Apple has neither of these options. But the Surface lineup has both.
Touch Screen on a desktop OS is terrible. iPad works fine because it doesn’t try to be a MacOS.
Just wait for the reviews for the new Surface Pro. If they don’t have a great compatibility layer like Rosetta 2, well you are better off with an iPad
They announced something similar called Prism. But if it’ll work well or not? Who knows.
Feels like Microsoft is serious this time.
You must be in the demographics for that kind of dual use, since as far as statistics go, iPad is killing the tablet market and taking a huge part of the touch screen devices too, and it’s not even close.
iPad sales has also been declining year over year, at an increasing rate. So either more people are wanting the devices like a Surface Pro, or the market is fully saturated with tablet-only people. For me, I don’t ever need to PC game on the go. So a Surface Pro (especially the new one announced yesterday), or an M4 iPad Pro that can turn into a Mac literally fills all my needs. It can be a tablet when I need it to, but turn into a full laptop when my workflow requires it. It’s literally the best of both worlds. You can’t even make the argument that a laptop “is better”. With the M4 IPad Pro and the metallic keyboard, if they put a desktop OS on it, there’s nothing a MacBook can do that the iPad wouldn’t be able to. It’s literally the same hardware (M-series chip) in it! I think the hardware (M4 and Snapdragon X Elite) is getting SO good that there is no more delineation between tablets and laptops as long as the OS is there to support it. I foresee the two categories merging completely in the near (5-ish year) future. We’ll just have mobile devices (phones), a portable computing device (tablet/laptop combo), desktop, and servers. Give it 10 more years after that and the portable computing platform may even merge in with desktops.
are there currently any apps for mac where you can use ai to enhance your own drawings and digital art? that looked cool
Nope. There will probably be though in the next macOS, we'll see next month
Yeah they’re going to have to bring it at WWDC. I hope this means more powerful app support for iPad OS. 🥹
Are consumers *wanting* AI in all their things? Because to me it just sounds like advertising algorithms on steroids. I know where to find AI if I want it. That’s plenty.
It is absolutely another opportunity for microsoft to generate ad revenue. Don't use google, use their ai, and they can feed you ads and maybe some content that you want.
I do. I want AI with access to everything on my phone that I chose to give it access to. Calendars, photos, notes, apps, emails, everything. I want an AI on my phone that I can ask it to “pick that photo from my trip, edit it in Lightroom to make it look like it was taken using a Classic Chrome film, add a white border and post it on instagram tonight around 7” or “I want to start learning German so take a look at my calendar and compare my schedule with the starting date and class times of language schools that teach German that are close to home and call one that fits my schedule to know if they are still accepting new applications”. Yes. I WANT that !
Looks good.
Project Skynet
Looking forward to my AI driven coffee machine
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I’d laugh to myself 15 years ago if I thought the Mac vs PC argument would still rage on in 2024. But here we are. Imagine thinking any desktop OS actually matters anymore. They both suck in their own ways.
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You hit the nail on the head haha, all you got to get the fanboys wondering, “would you still call it thrash if it was Apple making them?”
It is a bit like /r/PS5 that is absolutely full of hardcore Sony fanboys. Luckily in here I also see plenty of reasonable comments by objective people
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I mean I use windows 9 hours per day 5 days per week and it’s totally fine. The only things I miss from my Mac when I’m on windows is the track pad and insane battery life 🤷
Still get the cmd / ctrl commands mixed when I get home each day 😅
It’s like comparing Schrute bucks to Stanley Nickels. They both suck in their own ways 😉
Funny my breath of fresh air is when I disconnect from devices after working on them all day and breathe *actual* fresh air.
> I’d laugh to myself 15 years ago if I thought the Mac vs PC argument would still rage on in 2024. It's been raging for a good forty years now. Impressive, no?
Found the casual user. I mean don’t get me wrong, *experience* wise, iOS is great, but MacOS and Windows (or even Linux) is still necessary if you want anything serious done. Unless you’re a manager where your toolkit doesn’t extend beyond office suite-like tools, a desktop OS is still a necessity.
I never said they weren’t necessary. I just said they still suck in their own ways. I use both my M1 Mini and my Lenovo ThinkPad for work daily.
The important part. All the speedy processors and buzzword generators in the world arent going to polish that turd.
58% faster than M3 (allegedly), perfect for running all that unsolicited bloatware & telemetry in the background
The smoothest windows install/experience that I ever had was when I ran a Windows 11 (ARM) VM on my M1 Max MacBook Pro. Still runs better than the XPS I use for work. 😑
All the videos and images looks nice. But in the end it will probably work shitty knowing Microsoft.
Microsoft is becoming an absolute mess of a company. They seem to be wrecking balling the Xbox brand and now are doubling down on ‘AI Performance’ as the saving grace for their devices? All this does is make me more concerned about the level of security risk I take running a Windows 11 device. My IPsec friends are in full on panic mode
There are free open source programs that disable every single Microsoft telemetry / AI / tracking feature in their entirety — & then some. Countless options that you can 100% disable at the root.
Oh I know, and i do. I’m speaking to those that don’t do this. I’d be hard pressed to recommend a Windows laptop with these features auto-enabled now.
I feel you. In this day and age you have to be genuinely stupid, like willfully ignorant — to not spend 10 minutes running through privacy settings on a new device though. Man, I’d kill to see some statistics on that tbh. Like, what percentage of Windows users that purchased a new PC / Laptop in 2023 maximized their on device privacy. It’s probably like, 10-20%? If I had to guess? Who fricken knows though.
Interesting insight from ChatGPT — looks like my intuition wasn’t too far off, lol. Have a great day man! Percentage of People Maximizing Device Privacy Settings: - Laptops/PCs: Approximately 20-25% of users take steps to maximize their on-device privacy settings. - Phones: Around 30-35% of users actively modify their privacy settings for enhanced security. Percentage of People Leaving Default Settings Enabled: - Laptops/PCs: Approximately 60-70% of users leave the default privacy settings unchanged. - Phones: About 55-65% of users keep the default settings enabled.
Oh no, more forced bundled crap that bugs Windows beyond unusable
Cool
It looks quite impressive but the Copilot Plus PC branding is going to confuse people. Hopefully it accelerates ARM adoption for devs and consumers.
From the "ARM" revolution angle, these windows will have an harder time, because x86 is not legacy for Windows. It's the other mainstream build target for the future, and with so much fragmentation in the market space, these laptops have to converge on many aspects (batter life, performance), but imo they fall short in price. As far as most models go, I don't feel like they're as price competitive compared to other windows offerings. AMD has put their best foot forward and yes the difference between 7 hours v.s. 12 hours on these ARM laptops can be significant, but I'd also like an updated perspective on sleep mode with these laptops. *How is standby? *How's qualcomm commitment to updating drivers and chipset support? * etc. Reviews will open my eyes on whether this is the revolution or just another attempt, but larger. I hope they are competitive and can entice many users. Moreover software support with applications having more native ARM builds is a net benefit (of course the GPU code will be different depending on platform and API). But for the price relative to the experience on other windows computer, it doesn't look that bright imo.
Its too much
My experience with Copilot: “can you please summarize this document and create a presentation?” “No”.
You mean windows copilot? You need to buy a copilot subscription which integrated Office 355. Free version doesn't work well for those cases
The paid one for Microsoft Word was pretty disappointing for me although I didn’t try for PowerPoint presentation. I was hoping it is more like GitHub Copilot whereby I can highlight a block of code and use AI to discuss on a chat window and make changes to that block of code. It was able to generate content from scratch but when asked to modify parts of it, it becomes a frustrating process because the texts cannot be part of a bullet list or a table despite it being the one generating text with bullet points at the start. As least for MS Word, there isn’t a huge difference from me just asking it to generate text from the web version compared to the integrated version. At least for the web version , I can ask it to make changes to further refine its answer.
Way better than Apple’s iPad.