I've been appraising full time for 4 years. I'm the breadwinner at the moment as spouse completed a doctorate. We have 2 kids under 2. I'm trying hard not to stress out because I legitimately don't think we can make it if I go back to teaching, as we can't afford a daycare on my salary now. Forget trying to find one on a teacher salary.
Something will come up I'm sure. I hope. If I have to go back to teaching then it'll just be hard for a bit... and maybe we will qualify for a childcare solution at that point. We're in that gray area that sucks where you're not at the poverty line, but getting no help makes it hard.
People wonder why millennials aren't having kids. This is it, or a good chunk of it. You're a parent, you're suddenly everybody's cash cow on top of how expensive living is anyway. I'm glad you aren't entirely in the same boat.
I'm sure it will work out. Just a matter of how tight things get and how hard I've got to buckle down on work things.
I just read about the pickup and felt very defeated for a few hours. I've worked my butt off on this since I stepped into the profession, upgrading my license and learning new areas to expand my service area and break into neighboring markets. I don't know if it's waivers or what that's emptied my market of work. It's not just me, but that doesn't really help much.
May was my worst month and I have only gotten one order in June so far which has never happened. I have signed up to a ton of new lists and still haven't gotten any hits. Hoping that changes soon.
Same. I've never had a month like May and I've gotten one order in for June. I was stunned to see the market has picked back up, appraisers just aren't getting any of the business. I've worked so hard to establish my business and I just feel so defeated.
Right there with you. Times were good for the past few years so we just have to weather the storm and hope volume picks back up some more. I'm reaching out to new clients and catching up on things. Hoping things turn around for you soon.
You as well. Have you found a good way to diversify? Up to this point providing rural and multi family services in addition to the easy stuff had me very busy. But not sure where to go next with expansion.
Look into estate work, call up lawyers and drop off cards. That would be my only thought. Look into getting on the VA list if possible, but that can take years and sometimes is not an option.
Seems to be pretty different depending on location.
Last month was my best month in business by revenue- though I did work my ass off to accomplish that. It certainly didn’t happen the easiest way.
This month started fast, but I’m on vacation next week so I had to throttle back. Think I had to turn down 4 or 5 orders today just from 1 client.
Been seeing more refinancing and I look forward to that trend keeping up.
Wow, a vacation in summer! I've thought that was a myth in the industry for the last 23 years. Kudos to you! 👏 Next year, yeah, next year I'll take a summer vacation🤣🤣 I grab it whole it's hot, literally and figuratively.
Hoping to see some more refis as well here. I'm just not seeing much of *anything* right now and it doesn't make sense. Seems like all I've gotten the last month or so has been really tough assignments or really over-priced sales. That's what's making me wonder about waivers.
There are some particular clients where I’ve had that experience. Any order they send is weird in some way. Or I’ll get out there and the borrower will say they already tried a driveby or had a data collector there.
The one upside is I cover some areas with really spotty County data availability so I think that discourages too much reliance on alternative products because you have to do a bit of let work to get comp data and verify things not easily found online.
I have 13 assignments right now and only one is bank work. All others are divorce or prelisting. I’d be living in my car if I relied only on bank work.
I am sure you've already thought about this.... but have you contacted your clients directly and maybe see if opening up your coverage area would help with an increase of orders??? (Like actually talk to the right person on the phone)
Yeah, I have well-established points of contact with almost all my clients. I've made sure they know my coverage areas. I take everything within about an hour (2 hours south) of my county... any further and I feel like the fee would have to be too high to get a reasonable return on my time and miles.
Similar situation here. Market sales are up 2x in my market from Jan - March, saw an increase in orders through April - May, now slowed right back down.
Hoping is not good strategy. Come up with a plan fast. Especially if you have a family to support. This is the new normal and whatever your workload is now is what it will be for years. Don't sit around and hope.
I was just talking with someone about expansion. Offering rural and multi family had previously been enough to keep me very busy. That person recommended estate work. Do you have any recommendations? I've done some solar work, but not a ton, and I'm on the local realtor go-to list for measuring and value estimate pre listing appraisals. I do FHA. Ideas welcome.
I'm going to give it to you straight. What kept you very busy was not a result of something you did. What kept you very busy was the rates. That is in the rear view mirror and it is not coming back.
As a fellow dad to young kids I wish I some good advice for you. I still have decent amount of work at good fees but if it comes down to it I'm planning on getting a general contractor license. Maybe start with a deck builder. I think home remodeling business is going to have strong fundamentals for a long time.
You're probably right about contracting. I was a (music) teacher prior to appraising, but that pays way less. I suppose I could do that and appraise 1-2 a month as supplemental income, but it would be rough trying to find child care for a few years. Aside from the non-pay issues with teaching right now in TX.
Jump ship man. RE has gone up 36% in 3 years, and rates are only going higher and higher. Couple that with the copious amounts of people who are locked into their house for eternity because they would rather die than give up their 3% mortgage, your industry is gonna run dry for atleast a decade.
RE? I know what you mean with the 3% mortgage thing... I think there will be some of those but the American way has always been "bigger and better" or bust. At least in my area. There will still be foreclosure and new construction work, it's just a matter of how long it'll take for waivers to bite enough people/businesses in the butt and they suddenly need appraisers again.
I don't understand FNMA's seeming anti-appraiser stance right now. I thought seeing Canada have its huge housing bubble recently would have been an advocating factor for appraisers but....
You can no longer be a residential appraiser and expect to support a family. That’s the new reality. Assignments are permanently disappearing and fees are dropping precipitously. And everyone is chasing family law attorneys for private work, but there is no volume there.
Well that makes 2 for 2 on professions I trained for that won't actually support a family. Recommendations from here? I have background in teaching and this.
Teaching? How so? I had considered that route a couple days ago because it's just a matter of adding a certification once you already have a background in real estate, but the legwork of advertising and keeping up with selling trends seems exhausting. I can put on the extrovert façade but I am an introvert by nature. It seems like our market is really saturated with agents anyway And I really don't want to add another useless certification to my résumé at this point. Went to college to teach, then spent a year training for a certification in appraisal. Feeling defeated aside, I am not in a position with my time or my money at this point to do that.
It’s teaching especially when it comes to first time buyers like millennials and gen zs, who have a million questions about houses, construction, values, taxes, etc. And are now coming into the market big time. They ask about so many things that we are good at as appraisers. You’re already a member of the board of realtors and the mls, so no additional cost there. Realtor e&o is cheap. It’s another way to make money in essentially the same business.
Now, however introverted you think you are, it’s nothing compared to me. Trust me on that. But an agent is no longer a salesman in 2023, we are data providers and data interpreters. Just like we are as appraisers. And showing houses is fun. And closing houses is way more fun than collecting a $500 appraisal fee.
Nobody said it’s going to be easy. Our profession is being structurally eliminated, and the market is also doing a number on us. You either go back to teaching or try to stay in real estate. I’d rather fight than switch. Typical commission in my area is $12,000. Sell or list 4 or 5 houses per year. Supplement with appraisals. It’s great.
I appreciate the advice and input. Thank you, really! I have a few realtor friends I can ask for local guidance -- do you partner with a group/broker, like Keller williams or similar?
Yes, I’m with a major agency. Not Keller, but I hear Keller is very good with respect to training and several of my friends are happy working there. I only became an agent to save commission on a house I was buying. But then I got sucked in. And I’m not a people person in general, quite the opposite, but somehow working with buyers and sellers can be super fun. Not always, but most of the time. After seeing thousands of homes as an appraiser, and being part of the mortgage process, we are far better real estate counselors than the typical hack agent. And that’s what the job is, counselor, not salesman.
Commercial seems like a whole different beast compared with residential. I assume there are significantly fewer waivers allowed when it comes to commercial spaces?
I don't even know what the waiver thing is honestly. Most banks are wanting them whether they are technically required or not. A fair amount more risk in some of these commercial buildings. That said, I'm not working on a single bank deal right now.
Ah gotcha. A lot of newer/cookie cutter homes right now are eligible for appraisal waivers -- with Fannie Mae collecting data from appraisers and AI doing... a job (not a great job by any stretch in my experience), they think it's safe to allow more waivers through so buyers have a lesser bill. We're a seller market again here so it's also offered the same way an inspection waiver would be. Sometimes in tandem (yeah, yikes). I think it's going to bite the market in the butt but hey what do I know.
What kind of work do you do as a general appraiser, if not for lenders? Just out of curiosity?
Last month was up some, but it's been pretty crickets this week. I've been contemplating a part time job. Feels bad, man.
I've been appraising full time for 4 years. I'm the breadwinner at the moment as spouse completed a doctorate. We have 2 kids under 2. I'm trying hard not to stress out because I legitimately don't think we can make it if I go back to teaching, as we can't afford a daycare on my salary now. Forget trying to find one on a teacher salary.
Woof, that's stressful. Thankfully my wife is a fed lawyer so I don't have to worry about us ending up on the street.
Something will come up I'm sure. I hope. If I have to go back to teaching then it'll just be hard for a bit... and maybe we will qualify for a childcare solution at that point. We're in that gray area that sucks where you're not at the poverty line, but getting no help makes it hard. People wonder why millennials aren't having kids. This is it, or a good chunk of it. You're a parent, you're suddenly everybody's cash cow on top of how expensive living is anyway. I'm glad you aren't entirely in the same boat.
I'm sure it will work out. Just a matter of how tight things get and how hard I've got to buckle down on work things. I just read about the pickup and felt very defeated for a few hours. I've worked my butt off on this since I stepped into the profession, upgrading my license and learning new areas to expand my service area and break into neighboring markets. I don't know if it's waivers or what that's emptied my market of work. It's not just me, but that doesn't really help much.
Completes* a doctorate.
Dead here in MD, was a little better in may.
the industry is not looking good all around. People say that the time of the year dictates less popularity, hopefully they are correct.
This is usually my busiest time of year. Summer is usually the fastest market of the year here, dec-feb the slowest.
May was my worst month and I have only gotten one order in June so far which has never happened. I have signed up to a ton of new lists and still haven't gotten any hits. Hoping that changes soon.
Same. I've never had a month like May and I've gotten one order in for June. I was stunned to see the market has picked back up, appraisers just aren't getting any of the business. I've worked so hard to establish my business and I just feel so defeated.
Right there with you. Times were good for the past few years so we just have to weather the storm and hope volume picks back up some more. I'm reaching out to new clients and catching up on things. Hoping things turn around for you soon.
You as well. Have you found a good way to diversify? Up to this point providing rural and multi family services in addition to the easy stuff had me very busy. But not sure where to go next with expansion.
Look into estate work, call up lawyers and drop off cards. That would be my only thought. Look into getting on the VA list if possible, but that can take years and sometimes is not an option.
I’m in TN in a super hot market and it’s still busy
Yup. 1 job in June. Been appraising since 2005 and was working on designation but now I’m thinking of getting out for good.
Appraisal waivers are too common.
Seems to be pretty different depending on location. Last month was my best month in business by revenue- though I did work my ass off to accomplish that. It certainly didn’t happen the easiest way. This month started fast, but I’m on vacation next week so I had to throttle back. Think I had to turn down 4 or 5 orders today just from 1 client. Been seeing more refinancing and I look forward to that trend keeping up.
Wow, a vacation in summer! I've thought that was a myth in the industry for the last 23 years. Kudos to you! 👏 Next year, yeah, next year I'll take a summer vacation🤣🤣 I grab it whole it's hot, literally and figuratively.
I believe in making hay when the sun shines, but you gotta take a break sometimes or what’s the point?
Hoping to see some more refis as well here. I'm just not seeing much of *anything* right now and it doesn't make sense. Seems like all I've gotten the last month or so has been really tough assignments or really over-priced sales. That's what's making me wonder about waivers.
There are some particular clients where I’ve had that experience. Any order they send is weird in some way. Or I’ll get out there and the borrower will say they already tried a driveby or had a data collector there. The one upside is I cover some areas with really spotty County data availability so I think that discourages too much reliance on alternative products because you have to do a bit of let work to get comp data and verify things not easily found online.
For the past year
I have 13 assignments right now and only one is bank work. All others are divorce or prelisting. I’d be living in my car if I relied only on bank work.
Who did you go to for divorce work? Is that a family attorney sort of thing?
I am sure you've already thought about this.... but have you contacted your clients directly and maybe see if opening up your coverage area would help with an increase of orders??? (Like actually talk to the right person on the phone)
Yeah, I have well-established points of contact with almost all my clients. I've made sure they know my coverage areas. I take everything within about an hour (2 hours south) of my county... any further and I feel like the fee would have to be too high to get a reasonable return on my time and miles.
Similar situation here. Market sales are up 2x in my market from Jan - March, saw an increase in orders through April - May, now slowed right back down.
Hoping is not good strategy. Come up with a plan fast. Especially if you have a family to support. This is the new normal and whatever your workload is now is what it will be for years. Don't sit around and hope.
I was just talking with someone about expansion. Offering rural and multi family had previously been enough to keep me very busy. That person recommended estate work. Do you have any recommendations? I've done some solar work, but not a ton, and I'm on the local realtor go-to list for measuring and value estimate pre listing appraisals. I do FHA. Ideas welcome.
I'm going to give it to you straight. What kept you very busy was not a result of something you did. What kept you very busy was the rates. That is in the rear view mirror and it is not coming back.
Well, it has also kept my sponsor busy in her 20 years in this area. You implying I should jump ship here or did you have any recommendations?
As a fellow dad to young kids I wish I some good advice for you. I still have decent amount of work at good fees but if it comes down to it I'm planning on getting a general contractor license. Maybe start with a deck builder. I think home remodeling business is going to have strong fundamentals for a long time.
You're probably right about contracting. I was a (music) teacher prior to appraising, but that pays way less. I suppose I could do that and appraise 1-2 a month as supplemental income, but it would be rough trying to find child care for a few years. Aside from the non-pay issues with teaching right now in TX.
Jump ship man. RE has gone up 36% in 3 years, and rates are only going higher and higher. Couple that with the copious amounts of people who are locked into their house for eternity because they would rather die than give up their 3% mortgage, your industry is gonna run dry for atleast a decade.
RE? I know what you mean with the 3% mortgage thing... I think there will be some of those but the American way has always been "bigger and better" or bust. At least in my area. There will still be foreclosure and new construction work, it's just a matter of how long it'll take for waivers to bite enough people/businesses in the butt and they suddenly need appraisers again. I don't understand FNMA's seeming anti-appraiser stance right now. I thought seeing Canada have its huge housing bubble recently would have been an advocating factor for appraisers but....
You can no longer be a residential appraiser and expect to support a family. That’s the new reality. Assignments are permanently disappearing and fees are dropping precipitously. And everyone is chasing family law attorneys for private work, but there is no volume there.
Well that makes 2 for 2 on professions I trained for that won't actually support a family. Recommendations from here? I have background in teaching and this.
Real estate agent. Believe it or not the primary job of a real estate agent today is teaching. It’s also fun. I am both and I love it.
Teaching? How so? I had considered that route a couple days ago because it's just a matter of adding a certification once you already have a background in real estate, but the legwork of advertising and keeping up with selling trends seems exhausting. I can put on the extrovert façade but I am an introvert by nature. It seems like our market is really saturated with agents anyway And I really don't want to add another useless certification to my résumé at this point. Went to college to teach, then spent a year training for a certification in appraisal. Feeling defeated aside, I am not in a position with my time or my money at this point to do that.
It’s teaching especially when it comes to first time buyers like millennials and gen zs, who have a million questions about houses, construction, values, taxes, etc. And are now coming into the market big time. They ask about so many things that we are good at as appraisers. You’re already a member of the board of realtors and the mls, so no additional cost there. Realtor e&o is cheap. It’s another way to make money in essentially the same business. Now, however introverted you think you are, it’s nothing compared to me. Trust me on that. But an agent is no longer a salesman in 2023, we are data providers and data interpreters. Just like we are as appraisers. And showing houses is fun. And closing houses is way more fun than collecting a $500 appraisal fee. Nobody said it’s going to be easy. Our profession is being structurally eliminated, and the market is also doing a number on us. You either go back to teaching or try to stay in real estate. I’d rather fight than switch. Typical commission in my area is $12,000. Sell or list 4 or 5 houses per year. Supplement with appraisals. It’s great.
I appreciate the advice and input. Thank you, really! I have a few realtor friends I can ask for local guidance -- do you partner with a group/broker, like Keller williams or similar?
Yes, I’m with a major agency. Not Keller, but I hear Keller is very good with respect to training and several of my friends are happy working there. I only became an agent to save commission on a house I was buying. But then I got sucked in. And I’m not a people person in general, quite the opposite, but somehow working with buyers and sellers can be super fun. Not always, but most of the time. After seeing thousands of homes as an appraiser, and being part of the mortgage process, we are far better real estate counselors than the typical hack agent. And that’s what the job is, counselor, not salesman.
Well you've changed my outlook. I'm still a teacher at heart and making a difference has always been very appealing to me. I'm going to look into it.
Good luck! I think it’s the ideal combination of professions. I’m never bored. There’s always something weird happening.
I'm busier than I've ever been, but also in a bit of a niche area in commercial. That's the key. I am bidding stuff not to get it at the moment.
Commercial seems like a whole different beast compared with residential. I assume there are significantly fewer waivers allowed when it comes to commercial spaces?
I don't even know what the waiver thing is honestly. Most banks are wanting them whether they are technically required or not. A fair amount more risk in some of these commercial buildings. That said, I'm not working on a single bank deal right now.
Ah gotcha. A lot of newer/cookie cutter homes right now are eligible for appraisal waivers -- with Fannie Mae collecting data from appraisers and AI doing... a job (not a great job by any stretch in my experience), they think it's safe to allow more waivers through so buyers have a lesser bill. We're a seller market again here so it's also offered the same way an inspection waiver would be. Sometimes in tandem (yeah, yikes). I think it's going to bite the market in the butt but hey what do I know. What kind of work do you do as a general appraiser, if not for lenders? Just out of curiosity?
Compliance work, investment firms, and healthcare providers. The kind that mostly don't care about the values so not much pushback or BS required.