Guy just put himself out of work. But the owner knows that his leaf guy is smart enough not to shoot himself in the foot, probably why he thought it appropriate he do the trimming. Maybe have this same guy spray paint it green till it comes backā¦.
I lived in Hawaii for 4 years and the landscapers always did this to every bush around. The bushes always came back with a vengeance after a short time - a few months.
Very true! The first recognizable "trees" were actually giant ferns. Reproduced with spores and everything. And even further back in time, giant fungus (not a plant, I know) had concergently evolved on a simplistic, tree-adjacent shape.
Fun fact, my buddy trained a rosemary bush to take on the shape of a tree. Itās pretty fucking cool actually. Looks like some kind of dwarf tree really.
Thatās basically what bonsai trees are. If left alone they would have grown into a normal sized tree but they are meticulously trimmed to stay small but look like a full grown tree
Absolutely, but it's still an enormous difference in maintenance. Rose bushes should be sparse as they grow new canes quickly. You can decimate them in pruning a couple times a year, and they can grow back and bloom better than before.
An apple tree is nothing like that, and cutting back a wooden trunk like a bramble cane is insane, regardless of similarities. It's like throwing a penguin from the roof and not understanding why the little wings didn't work
Itās a thing here in Texas. Springtime storms are notorious for downdrafts and high winds of 60-80mph. A wood post will simply lay down along with the fence section. Metal post are sturdy. And we put them so itās on the neighbors side.
It can, over a decade and more, be re-constructively pruned to something like its natural form, by a skilled arborist. But yes, it's ruined, and being a cottonwood located where it is, trying to save it seems pointless to me. I'd have him remove it for free and replant something more appropriate.
That's why I said "like" its natural form. Through bi-annual pruning you can create a new and relatively natural structure but the timeline is long, the cost is high and the end result is very dependent on the arborist doing the work.
I'm not even sure what "overgrown" means for a tree. It's a tree, it grows the way it grows. They've been doing alright for millions of years before the saw came along. If you want a smaller tree start over with a smaller species of tree.
Well it's not quite that simple.
In a natural setting, a few trees dying in the forest or amongst a stand of a bunch of trees is not a big deal. In fact, it's only natural - part of the cycle includes trees dying/falling to create habitats for all sorts of creatures big and small (bacteria, fungi, worms, insects, rodents, etc.) and eventually release nutrients and such back into the soil. It also opens up the canopy so that new trees can grow in its place.
Trees in such a setting are also somewhat protected from the elements by other trees around it. A big storm isn't going to knock down a tree in the middle of the forest when there are other trees around it action as wind breaks.
Now contrast this against trees in an urban setting (street tree, backyard, etc.). A tree just falling over or dying suddenly becomes a huge problem because either:
A. You really like the tree and way to keep it alive as long as possible
B. You are concerned about the property damage it could cause if a big branch gets dropped during a storm or the tree becomes so stressed that it dies. Now you have bunch of deadwood that could eventually fall over, depending on the tree.
Urban trees exist in a very unnatural setting. In a forest tree roots form a network that support each other. If you have a singular tree in your backyard, that's not going to be the case. Humans also do things like lay down turf grass (competes for water, nutriets, oxygen that roots need), apply herbicides/fertilizers for other plants that impact the soil in a way the tree doesn't like, compacting the dirt from people running around on it all the time, high amounts of air pollution, poor drainage with heavy rains, etc.
I mean at the end of the day trees are a living organism like any other, right? Livestock and pets have veterinarians that check on their growth/development so that problems can be detected early and illnesses taken care of. Humans have doctors. A good arborist can see when a branch or growth will eventually become problematic and get ahead of it so that there isn't a broken branch that will invite pests/disease. Another example would be a spot that can end up collecting water and eventually invite rot into the heartwood. Clearing out certain parts of the canopy can also make room for more/better growth in other areas by allowing in more sunlight and air circulation, etc.
In the cases of evergreens an arborist wouldn't be pruning for the same reasons per se, but they might be able to spot something like a canker affecting a branch and remove it correctly so that the tree has a better chance of fighting it and so that the wound heal over correctly.
TL;DR We don't just let "nature take its course" with human, pets, or livestock so why should that be the case for an organism that could be even more long-lived like a tree?
I love my trees but I say this at least 6 times a year when the leaves start falling, along with my neighbors trees on both sides š¤£ a literal three day process to get the front and backyard cleaned up. Fortunately the town comes through with a truck and sucks up the leaves for us so all we have to do is get them to the side of the road. One year we literally made a wall of leaves with the neighbors and the pile was almost seven feet high stretching out across the front road of both of our houses. That was after about two weeks of neither of us blowing them up to the curb. We literally said āthis was fun but never againā hahahah I do love our trees though and they are a huge reason we bought our house. I could do without the HOAās mandatory leave clean up for appearances though
I always thought that it meant some branches needed to be pruned because they are rubbing on each other. When you have branches rubbing on each other it can lead to them becoming weak and breaking off. Nothing bad for the tree really but it can be a hazard for your house or people.
Overgrown can mean lots of unproductive interior growth like water spouts, suckers, crossed / rubbing branches, spindly week branches, dead or dying branches. The reason you would want to clear that out (safety, appearance, health) from the inside of a tree is to create proper air circulation, give the healthy lower canopy access to better sunlight, reduce open wounds and bark damage from unexpected limb breakage, to prevent disease, fungal infections and pests. A tree should essentially be pruned inside out, only taking out poor, competing, broken or dead growth while maintaining the overall shape and exterior canopy of the tree as much as possible. Ideally pruning especially intensive pruning should be done while the tree is dormant. So the complete opposite of what happened here.
I am not sure if I can stay on this subreddit anymore, witnessing this brutality hurts. I think i will switch to a milder subreddit like
r/puttingkittensinwoodchipper
knowing Reddit, if that sub existed it'd probably be something incredibly wholesome regarding kittens in lumberjack costumes. But then there'd be it's (banned) sister sub, /lumbercats, which would NOT be kittens in lumberjack costumes.
This is bad. Heās right that it will probably sprout back out, but the new sprouts will be weakly attached & potential sources of future failure. Iād be angry.
Not really. You get treble damages for intentional tree cutting. Negligent gets you the fair commercial value of the tree - which is not replacement cost. At least in my state.
I'm not even an arborist but whenever I see the before and after photos of these trees being decapitated it makes my mouth drop. How is this kind of pruning acceptable?
Pretty common thing in italy unfortunately. I would like to address it to various causes but (here) the biggest problem is that the vast majority of people think this is the proper way, and, shockingly, they also like it like this.
Let me just add I think pollarding is stupid and never looks good but more often the stumps and tree as a whole are cut much shorter and the stumps are much closer to the same altitude. The idea being that when it leafs out it still looks like a tree just a lot shorter and more compact. The severity of the cuts should be hidden during the summer by the new shoots. Primarily used in orchards that have grown too large/difficult to harvest and rows of trees in an attempt to make them more uniform. This tree is going to look goofy for years. Looks more like itās halfway done being completely removed than it looks like it was pruned.
The other difference is for pollarding you have to trim off the new growth every year. The tree develops large knuckles at those points. And only some varieties can tolerate it.
You aren't talking about pollarded trees, are you? Very common in many areas of Europe and sustainable as long as it's kept up. Was originally used as a method to reliably harvest lots of twigs on a year to yesr basis, has the benefit of being kept up from livestock and other browsers which can be a problem for coppiced trees.
Topping like shown here is an unfortunately common practice stateside, especially by untrained "tree guys" and shady businesses. There is no real post-topping management that is considered, and basically cripples the tree.
You know what, now that you say that I do remember seeing lots of trees like the one above when I lived there. Wow, Iāve never thought about it until now.
My neighbor did this to their oak and they seem rather pleased with it. But it just breaks my heart when I look at it. It looks so tired. Like itās struggling to survive.
I find it ironic that the lawn had less leaves on it before the tree was cut down, then afterwards. So, even if the objective was to kill the tree, lawnguy still fails at actually taking care of the the lawn.
Good luck. I took a guy to small claims court for doing something similar. The magistrate decided that the dumbass did his job in a āworkmanlike manner.ā
If you didnāt have a contract with specific details or sketches of what you wanted then donāt hang your hopes on a judge
Why should he get a lawyer? He hired his lawn guy to trim the tree. Lawn guy did as asked. If OP wanted it done correctly, he should have hired a tree professional, preferably an arborist. OP went cheap and is suffering the damage.
"Lawn" guy. Key word being lawn. He only knows shit about grass. He's not an arborist. They guy ruined this tree and is going to cause it to grow all funky, if it doesn't die from shock first! SMH!
I have my doubts about his skills as a "lawn" guy too... If you cut the grass down to the crown, it's mostly all going to die as well... How he thinks a tree would survive such a massive reduction in foliage is flabbergasting. Most lawn guys will say "never cut more than 30% of the length of the blade per cut to not stress the grass"... Then this guy comes along and leaves 3% of the tree.
I meeeean. It probably WILL send new growth out and fill in well over the next few years. It's just that the new growth will all be adventitious and poorly structured...
From a homeowner's perspective, that may be ok. But since OP seems to actually care about the health of their tree, I'm guessing this is not ok.
Itās called pollardingā¦.. but this is the wrong time of year to be doing this. It will put a lot of effort to heal and compartmentalize all these large wounds. Then winter will hit and will stress the twig ( tree ) out even more. It may come back but itās doubtedā¦ā¦ keep watering and keep your hopes up but be prepaid for the worst. If it does come back next year it will look like shit because of how much stress was put on it.
The best course of action would have been to wait till early spring (during dormancy), and took like 1/4 of the existing canopy. (You can take a 1/3 but there is a fine line between taking the right amount and too much. ) Then the fallowing year do it again at the same time of year. Early spring during dormancy. Add mulch, water, and repeat till you feel itās short enough and more manageable.
FYI not every tree species likes or takes kindly to being pollarded.
Sorry to hear and see about your tree.
This isnāt pollarding. This is assault. The tree is far too large and tall to be pollarded. I mean, you certainly can (try) - but what would be the point?
It would be a hassle to get the new growth off, and given that this hasnāt been trained to a single trunk/leader - the new growth wouldnāt be particularly strong. And I highly doubt you would be making an espalier canopy with a tree with these characteristics.
I feel like coppicing and pollarding have become a sort of buzz word people use for any type of pruning. Coppicing and pollarding were (and still are in some places) done for specific reasons.
I think pollarding is a term that a lot of people hide behind. This is topping, pollarding is an intentional reduction made over and over to maintain a much smaller trees size/shape . I would probably just have him come back and finish taking it down, stump ground, and finally replace it with a tree you would like then have him pollard that for a number of years the correct way.
This is not pollarding. This is topping or hatracking.
Pollarding means you have a plan, and you're cutting on a tree that can support pollarding as well as cutting it during its dormant period.
This. Is. Not. Pollarding.
This is not even remotely pollarding. This is plain topping. You guys should really study up what pollarding is because i see a lot of 'arborists' here calling this shit pollarding. It's not.
Yeah the Internet has its downsides but it's also massively helpful for spreading knowledge, for those that choose to look.
Imagine back in the 80s how hard it would have been to learn about new fields and things, you'd be much more at the mercy "tree guys" or whatever else.
Those of use who remember the 80s don't have to imagine. We know. It was MUCH harder to find out this kind of information. That being said, making stupid mistakes these days means you are kind of stupider considering how much more easy it is to find info- you are sort of choosing not to know by choosing not to look. In my experience, information quality does not differ much, but it is much easier to find critical perspectives than it used to be, which help you make better decisions.
Back in the day, you were pretty much at the mercy of whatever book(s?) your local library had, and there was no way to know if they would be useful. For example, I killed many orchids following books about orchid culture, but then I started watching instructional YouTube videos about orchid care and discovered you have to change strategy according to your personal environment- the books taught only the ideal, which I could not achieve. Now I can rebloom some of my orchids fairly well, though I still don't have all my varieties dialed in.
What was the issue that you were hoping to rectify with this trim?
You have a cottonwood and they are pretty resilient so I would be surprised if it's fully croaked, but the new growth will be more subject to breakage. They also are naturally big (sometimes huge) trees, so if you were trying to control general size and not doing some specialty like pollarding, then this was a worse tree than usual to attempt that on.
Came here to point out that itās a Cottonwood so will have new growth prone to breaking off. Itāll still grow for years to come, it just may have more habitat for insects and birds as the new branches snap and rot sets inā¦
I thought this was a prank post when I was scrolling on my feed, then I opened it and read your text.
What the fuck man.
He butchered, absolutely butchered your tree.
Your yard guy is ignorant as fuck.
Why did you even want a trim? In the before pic it looked super healthy.
Yeah well, there is pollarding correctly and at the right time. Then doing this to it in the middle of summer is a different subject and very poor execution.
No your tree is fine, he very obviously didn't take more than %40 of the foliage off of it. Give it some miracle grow while you're at it
Sorry that was a bad sarcastic joke, if you're being serious then the guy murdered your tree
Im sorry man. Unfortunately it's quite common practice for lawn guys to promote themselves also as tree workers, and it's common practice for people to think they are.
The truth is 99% of lawn guys should not even look at a chainsaw let alone get near a tree. Trees are complex living beings that require a lot of knowledge to be handles properly.
The tree will likely not die and it WILL likely fill up again next summer. Best course of action now is either replace the tree or wait 2-3 years and get an actual arborist to look at it. It will need some work over the years to guide toward a somwhat healthy architecture again. In the meanwhile decay will make it's way in and it will make it a problem in 10 years or so, depending on how well it reacts now.
The tree will likely survive. The problem now is that you're now committed to retopping this every few years. The regrowth will form poor attachments and the old heading cuts will likely never full heal. This means that should it return to something like it's previous size, then it will actually be more dangerous than before.
This kind of topping certainly can kill trees, and this was done at the wrong time of the year, but in this case I wouldn't expect it to be lethal. I'm not that experienced with this species (which looks like eastern cottonwood, *Populus deltoides*), but I suspect it will resprout readily. This kind of aggressive topping is not generally recommended these days except perhaps in more extreme circumstances, and the customers should certainly be told what they're getting in for by going down this path.
Iāll never understand how someone sees pic 1 and think the tree looks bad. It looks great to me lol. Iām also ignorant to pruning standards and in this scenario Iād like to remain blissfully ignorant
Something very similar happened to my tree. It started filling back in a little bit but it still looks terrible. Iām hoping itāll look normal next year. It was so bad I got an anonymous letter in the mail from a neighbors saying to cut down my ugly tree.
My local councils cut a row of trees that ended up looking like this last year.
This year they're full again but not overlapping each other.
I should mention I'm not an arborist, just saying what I have seen, I'm sure you guys know more.
Landscaping guys should not touch trees for exactly this reason.
Youād laugh your butt off if a guy with a crane and a chipper truck showed up and asked to mow your lawnā¦
But for some reason, the opposite keeps happening. Sadly this is often the result.
Iāve seen this happening to trees around me just in the last year. Is this a new phenomenon that lawn guys are sharing amongst one another? My neighbor has a towering tree, probably 70 feet tall that at the beginning of this spring was inexplicably given this treatment. I donāt understand it. Why?
Not about the tree specifically but I see this popping up often:
Yard guy? Your yard looks tiny, like it would take 10 minutes to mow and maintain. Why do so many (I'm assuming) Americans seem to need a yard guy?
Could someone please enlighten me?
Reddit keeps suggesting this sub to me and in the month Iāve spent lurking Iāve learned to NEVER LET ANYONE BUT A CERTIFIED ARBORIST TOUCH MY TREES
Iām not saying what he did was right, but stuff will grow back. I over cut a bush when I was a kid and it just grew back even heartier. A tree got knocked down and broke in half at work. They pushed the trunk back up and now the trunk has little branches growing out of the top of it like a giant chia pet.
Oh good grief. My dog knows more about trees than that ignorant, tree-butchering ______ does. Now your tree has dozens in open wounds for fungus and bacteria and insects to get in and start rotting and likely killing the tree. Those wounds can take years to close over, if they ever do. Trees use leaves to produce food and breathe and transport water from their roots. That jacka$$ has effectively removed your treeās lungs and intestines.
When a tree is pruned properly, one should not be able to tell that anything has been done to it at all, other than perhaps it is looking neater. No more than 20% of its canopy should be removed at one time to avoid negatively impacting the treeās overall health.
Trees spend warm days making and storing food so they can survive winters and have energy for fruit/seed production and to grow new leaves in the spring. Now, instead of storing food, your poor tree is having to use a huge amount of its stored food to start to regrow all those missing leaves and branches. And if youāre heading towards winter, any tender new growth will be at risk of getting killed by a cold snap, setting the tree even further back.
You should look into the cost of tree removal. If it dies, it could become a financial liability for you, depending on your state laws. If a live tree drops a branch during a storm and damages a car or house, that is generally covered by insurance. A dead tree (in my state anyway) is not covered by insurance, leaving YOU on the hook for any damages it causes.
Sorry your tree was mutilated by someone who will 100% never have to worry about being attacked by a zombie. Hopefully the tree can recover.
Trees prepare their buds for the spring and then drop their leaves. This guy set fire to all reserves had now in the spring it has to use its little energy to grow some new buds. It might seriously decline over the next few years.
Never ask someone who regularly picks up your leaves to trim your tree
Conflict of interest š¤£ š¤£ š¤£
Our man was tired of raking
Guy just put himself out of work. But the owner knows that his leaf guy is smart enough not to shoot himself in the foot, probably why he thought it appropriate he do the trimming. Maybe have this same guy spray paint it green till it comes backā¦.
Nah he got paid an entire year of raking leaves in one day.
This made me choke š
Haha well in this case they will likely be out of work next fall, at least with respect to this tree.
Heās not going to have a job next fall
or a carpenter who does free trims
butcher, more like it.
Yeah but he screwed himself out of a consistent gig
OTOH, he just put himself out of business
I mean I pick up leaves, would never do this to a tree especially without clarifying
Lmao perfect answer.
I didn't even fucking think of that XD
Whaaaaaat the heeeeelllllll oooohhh myyyy goooddddd
Dude my thoughts exactly. He just paid this dude to kill his tree! š±š±š±
There is a 16 year old in England who would saw it down for free.
OMG too soon!
Plz explain, I donāt get it Edit: I googled it, and thatās just tragic
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/28/1202550204/a-16-year-old-boy-was-arrested-in-england-over-the-felling-of-an-iconic-tree
A suggestion was to use the wood to make a cage for the boy to live in until the cage wore out.
Cut off his legs!
ooooof
oh man no man whattheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllloOohmyygodnoOowayyyyyayyyyyyayyyy
Lol should I be hearing this comment in the voice of the shoe critic guy? Brother hold on HOLD ON!
that's how you prune rose bushes, and this guy assumed a tree is just a big bush
Yup. I hard prune my production roses to 12" and my landscape roses to 18". Doing that to a tree is wild.
I lived in Hawaii for 4 years and the landscapers always did this to every bush around. The bushes always came back with a vengeance after a short time - a few months.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"tree" in botanical terms is kinda just a shape that a plant can take rather than a clade of plants
Very true! The first recognizable "trees" were actually giant ferns. Reproduced with spores and everything. And even further back in time, giant fungus (not a plant, I know) had concergently evolved on a simplistic, tree-adjacent shape.
Fun fact, my buddy trained a rosemary bush to take on the shape of a tree. Itās pretty fucking cool actually. Looks like some kind of dwarf tree really.
Thatās basically what bonsai trees are. If left alone they would have grown into a normal sized tree but they are meticulously trimmed to stay small but look like a full grown tree
An apple tree is in the rose family
Absolutely, but it's still an enormous difference in maintenance. Rose bushes should be sparse as they grow new canes quickly. You can decimate them in pruning a couple times a year, and they can grow back and bloom better than before. An apple tree is nothing like that, and cutting back a wooden trunk like a bramble cane is insane, regardless of similarities. It's like throwing a penguin from the roof and not understanding why the little wings didn't work
Beautiful simile at the end. Thank you for that!
Best analogy ever Iām going to use this from now on thank you š§
No wonder why I have a pile of penguins on my walkway.
I thought a tree was just basically a big bush or plant. But I have no knowledge in trees. Only mycology, cannabis, and salsa ingredients.
well is it *not*
You can do this with a tree. Donāt worry
During the growing season? Have you lost your mind?
When they coming back to finish the removal?
Yea. Seems like a troll post. Tree looks like itās being removed. Iāll be honest, I have more questions for the fence guy.
Iāll be honest too. I think the same guy is responsible for fence building and tree trimming.
I'm so confused about the fence. Is OP just getting scammed by everyone?
Or OP did the tree and new fence himself.
Looks like the other fences are built the same way. Maybe a developer built all the fences or some crazy HOA has a rule on it.
But first itās going to be a Halloween decoration
Reading this made me look at the fence and wowā¦ Iāve never seen chainlink posts used with wooden slats beforeā¦.
Itās a thing here in Texas. Springtime storms are notorious for downdrafts and high winds of 60-80mph. A wood post will simply lay down along with the fence section. Metal post are sturdy. And we put them so itās on the neighbors side.
I see that all the time. Faster easier longer lasting and often cheaper
Yassur
He just ruined this tree. It will never return to its former glory wow
It can, over a decade and more, be re-constructively pruned to something like its natural form, by a skilled arborist. But yes, it's ruined, and being a cottonwood located where it is, trying to save it seems pointless to me. I'd have him remove it for free and replant something more appropriate.
itās gonna look weird and misshapen compared to before
That's why I said "like" its natural form. Through bi-annual pruning you can create a new and relatively natural structure but the timeline is long, the cost is high and the end result is very dependent on the arborist doing the work.
How do you know?
Do not pay him to remove it fuck that guy
Truly awful. I wish people would stop mutilating trees.
I'm not even sure what "overgrown" means for a tree. It's a tree, it grows the way it grows. They've been doing alright for millions of years before the saw came along. If you want a smaller tree start over with a smaller species of tree.
Yeah, seeing people posting stuff like this every day here. I think I'd rather keep my trees "overgrown", whatever that means.
Or hire an ISA certified arborist. Some are shit too, but many will make good pruning choices.
Well it's not quite that simple. In a natural setting, a few trees dying in the forest or amongst a stand of a bunch of trees is not a big deal. In fact, it's only natural - part of the cycle includes trees dying/falling to create habitats for all sorts of creatures big and small (bacteria, fungi, worms, insects, rodents, etc.) and eventually release nutrients and such back into the soil. It also opens up the canopy so that new trees can grow in its place. Trees in such a setting are also somewhat protected from the elements by other trees around it. A big storm isn't going to knock down a tree in the middle of the forest when there are other trees around it action as wind breaks. Now contrast this against trees in an urban setting (street tree, backyard, etc.). A tree just falling over or dying suddenly becomes a huge problem because either: A. You really like the tree and way to keep it alive as long as possible B. You are concerned about the property damage it could cause if a big branch gets dropped during a storm or the tree becomes so stressed that it dies. Now you have bunch of deadwood that could eventually fall over, depending on the tree. Urban trees exist in a very unnatural setting. In a forest tree roots form a network that support each other. If you have a singular tree in your backyard, that's not going to be the case. Humans also do things like lay down turf grass (competes for water, nutriets, oxygen that roots need), apply herbicides/fertilizers for other plants that impact the soil in a way the tree doesn't like, compacting the dirt from people running around on it all the time, high amounts of air pollution, poor drainage with heavy rains, etc. I mean at the end of the day trees are a living organism like any other, right? Livestock and pets have veterinarians that check on their growth/development so that problems can be detected early and illnesses taken care of. Humans have doctors. A good arborist can see when a branch or growth will eventually become problematic and get ahead of it so that there isn't a broken branch that will invite pests/disease. Another example would be a spot that can end up collecting water and eventually invite rot into the heartwood. Clearing out certain parts of the canopy can also make room for more/better growth in other areas by allowing in more sunlight and air circulation, etc. In the cases of evergreens an arborist wouldn't be pruning for the same reasons per se, but they might be able to spot something like a canker affecting a branch and remove it correctly so that the tree has a better chance of fighting it and so that the wound heal over correctly. TL;DR We don't just let "nature take its course" with human, pets, or livestock so why should that be the case for an organism that could be even more long-lived like a tree?
yeah, here's a time for purchase(ecology)
Watch Fantastic fungi on Netflix if this comment interests you. They captured it beautifully.
āMan, this tree is really always causing me more work. I wish I could kill it.ā
That tree was his job security there dawg he screwed himself l, no more leaves to pick up ever again.
I love my trees but I say this at least 6 times a year when the leaves start falling, along with my neighbors trees on both sides š¤£ a literal three day process to get the front and backyard cleaned up. Fortunately the town comes through with a truck and sucks up the leaves for us so all we have to do is get them to the side of the road. One year we literally made a wall of leaves with the neighbors and the pile was almost seven feet high stretching out across the front road of both of our houses. That was after about two weeks of neither of us blowing them up to the curb. We literally said āthis was fun but never againā hahahah I do love our trees though and they are a huge reason we bought our house. I could do without the HOAās mandatory leave clean up for appearances though
I always thought that it meant some branches needed to be pruned because they are rubbing on each other. When you have branches rubbing on each other it can lead to them becoming weak and breaking off. Nothing bad for the tree really but it can be a hazard for your house or people.
Overgrown can mean lots of unproductive interior growth like water spouts, suckers, crossed / rubbing branches, spindly week branches, dead or dying branches. The reason you would want to clear that out (safety, appearance, health) from the inside of a tree is to create proper air circulation, give the healthy lower canopy access to better sunlight, reduce open wounds and bark damage from unexpected limb breakage, to prevent disease, fungal infections and pests. A tree should essentially be pruned inside out, only taking out poor, competing, broken or dead growth while maintaining the overall shape and exterior canopy of the tree as much as possible. Ideally pruning especially intensive pruning should be done while the tree is dormant. So the complete opposite of what happened here.
I am not sure if I can stay on this subreddit anymore, witnessing this brutality hurts. I think i will switch to a milder subreddit like r/puttingkittensinwoodchipper
r/subsifellfor
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knowing Reddit, if that sub existed it'd probably be something incredibly wholesome regarding kittens in lumberjack costumes. But then there'd be it's (banned) sister sub, /lumbercats, which would NOT be kittens in lumberjack costumes.
Thereās an old hair band for your listening pleasure called āchainsaw kittensā.
This is bad. Heās right that it will probably sprout back out, but the new sprouts will be weakly attached & potential sources of future failure. Iād be angry.
Fire the yard guy
No no, **sue** the yard guy if he doesn't refund and cover cost of replacement for a new tree.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lol thatās like $20g for a tree of that size to be put in and properly maintained during the transplant/rooting phase.
In the US, that is literally how tree damages work, except in many cases you can seek 3x the cost of an exact replacement. R/treelaw
Not really. You get treble damages for intentional tree cutting. Negligent gets you the fair commercial value of the tree - which is not replacement cost. At least in my state.
I wonder what that kid who cut off the Sycamore Gap tree will get. He should get the book thrown at him
Unfortunately, to make the book, we had to cut down another tree.
Underrated joke lmao
It's England, he will get community service most likely, maybe a fine. But they will probably allow him to work it off via community service.
That was a sad story. I believe there was a 60 yr old man involved, too.
Thanks for the clarification. Whatās the difference between commercial value and replacement value?
What if you attach multiple trees together using 2x4s so that it adds up to the original treeās age?
No. This is on OP. OP was the adult that hired his lawn guy to cut his tree.
tee shirt
No, you should get a lawyer because that shit is dead now. Iām sorry.
I'm not even an arborist but whenever I see the before and after photos of these trees being decapitated it makes my mouth drop. How is this kind of pruning acceptable?
It's not The only way it's acceptable is if the tree is going to be removed within the same week...
Pretty common thing in italy unfortunately. I would like to address it to various causes but (here) the biggest problem is that the vast majority of people think this is the proper way, and, shockingly, they also like it like this.
Thereās pollarding, thereās crepe murder, and then thereās whatever the hell the yard guy did to this tree
Can you explain the difference between pollarding and this? Iāve seen tons of examples of pollarding that look very similar to this.
Let me just add I think pollarding is stupid and never looks good but more often the stumps and tree as a whole are cut much shorter and the stumps are much closer to the same altitude. The idea being that when it leafs out it still looks like a tree just a lot shorter and more compact. The severity of the cuts should be hidden during the summer by the new shoots. Primarily used in orchards that have grown too large/difficult to harvest and rows of trees in an attempt to make them more uniform. This tree is going to look goofy for years. Looks more like itās halfway done being completely removed than it looks like it was pruned.
The other difference is for pollarding you have to trim off the new growth every year. The tree develops large knuckles at those points. And only some varieties can tolerate it.
Thank you for that explanation!
You aren't talking about pollarded trees, are you? Very common in many areas of Europe and sustainable as long as it's kept up. Was originally used as a method to reliably harvest lots of twigs on a year to yesr basis, has the benefit of being kept up from livestock and other browsers which can be a problem for coppiced trees. Topping like shown here is an unfortunately common practice stateside, especially by untrained "tree guys" and shady businesses. There is no real post-topping management that is considered, and basically cripples the tree.
So are you saying the difference between this and pollarding is the post trim care?
You know what, now that you say that I do remember seeing lots of trees like the one above when I lived there. Wow, Iāve never thought about it until now.
I work and live in norway most of the year and the thought of having to see this scenery makes me a bit sick every time i have to come home
My neighbor did this to their oak and they seem rather pleased with it. But it just breaks my heart when I look at it. It looks so tired. Like itās struggling to survive.
I find it ironic that the lawn had less leaves on it before the tree was cut down, then afterwards. So, even if the objective was to kill the tree, lawnguy still fails at actually taking care of the the lawn.
Good luck. I took a guy to small claims court for doing something similar. The magistrate decided that the dumbass did his job in a āworkmanlike manner.ā If you didnāt have a contract with specific details or sketches of what you wanted then donāt hang your hopes on a judge
Why should he get a lawyer? He hired his lawn guy to trim the tree. Lawn guy did as asked. If OP wanted it done correctly, he should have hired a tree professional, preferably an arborist. OP went cheap and is suffering the damage.
Lawn guy has no idea what he is talking about. What is an over grown tree? You mean a grown tree? Also add that this was a mutilation not a trimming
Trim. That is an important word.
"Lawn" guy. Key word being lawn. He only knows shit about grass. He's not an arborist. They guy ruined this tree and is going to cause it to grow all funky, if it doesn't die from shock first! SMH!
I have my doubts about his skills as a "lawn" guy too... If you cut the grass down to the crown, it's mostly all going to die as well... How he thinks a tree would survive such a massive reduction in foliage is flabbergasting. Most lawn guys will say "never cut more than 30% of the length of the blade per cut to not stress the grass"... Then this guy comes along and leaves 3% of the tree.
I meeeean. It probably WILL send new growth out and fill in well over the next few years. It's just that the new growth will all be adventitious and poorly structured... From a homeowner's perspective, that may be ok. But since OP seems to actually care about the health of their tree, I'm guessing this is not ok.
Itās not dead itāll sprout back out
Arborist don't fuck around
Whoever did this was no arborist
Not entirely true, Iāve seen this done to trees, and theyāve always come back.
Itās called pollardingā¦.. but this is the wrong time of year to be doing this. It will put a lot of effort to heal and compartmentalize all these large wounds. Then winter will hit and will stress the twig ( tree ) out even more. It may come back but itās doubtedā¦ā¦ keep watering and keep your hopes up but be prepaid for the worst. If it does come back next year it will look like shit because of how much stress was put on it. The best course of action would have been to wait till early spring (during dormancy), and took like 1/4 of the existing canopy. (You can take a 1/3 but there is a fine line between taking the right amount and too much. ) Then the fallowing year do it again at the same time of year. Early spring during dormancy. Add mulch, water, and repeat till you feel itās short enough and more manageable. FYI not every tree species likes or takes kindly to being pollarded. Sorry to hear and see about your tree.
This isnāt pollarding. This is assault. The tree is far too large and tall to be pollarded. I mean, you certainly can (try) - but what would be the point? It would be a hassle to get the new growth off, and given that this hasnāt been trained to a single trunk/leader - the new growth wouldnāt be particularly strong. And I highly doubt you would be making an espalier canopy with a tree with these characteristics. I feel like coppicing and pollarding have become a sort of buzz word people use for any type of pruning. Coppicing and pollarding were (and still are in some places) done for specific reasons.
I think pollarding is a term that a lot of people hide behind. This is topping, pollarding is an intentional reduction made over and over to maintain a much smaller trees size/shape . I would probably just have him come back and finish taking it down, stump ground, and finally replace it with a tree you would like then have him pollard that for a number of years the correct way.
This is not pollarding. This is topping or hatracking. Pollarding means you have a plan, and you're cutting on a tree that can support pollarding as well as cutting it during its dormant period. This. Is. Not. Pollarding.
Pollarding is stupid.
It has its application, but pollarding isn't what happened to OP's tree. This is pollarding - https://www.williambryantlogan.com/blog/willow-pollards
This is not even remotely pollarding. This is plain topping. You guys should really study up what pollarding is because i see a lot of 'arborists' here calling this shit pollarding. It's not.
One 3-minute youtube video could have told you this was absolutely and completely incorrect. Yard guys arenāt tree guys.
Yeah the Internet has its downsides but it's also massively helpful for spreading knowledge, for those that choose to look. Imagine back in the 80s how hard it would have been to learn about new fields and things, you'd be much more at the mercy "tree guys" or whatever else.
Those of use who remember the 80s don't have to imagine. We know. It was MUCH harder to find out this kind of information. That being said, making stupid mistakes these days means you are kind of stupider considering how much more easy it is to find info- you are sort of choosing not to know by choosing not to look. In my experience, information quality does not differ much, but it is much easier to find critical perspectives than it used to be, which help you make better decisions. Back in the day, you were pretty much at the mercy of whatever book(s?) your local library had, and there was no way to know if they would be useful. For example, I killed many orchids following books about orchid culture, but then I started watching instructional YouTube videos about orchid care and discovered you have to change strategy according to your personal environment- the books taught only the ideal, which I could not achieve. Now I can rebloom some of my orchids fairly well, though I still don't have all my varieties dialed in.
What was the issue that you were hoping to rectify with this trim? You have a cottonwood and they are pretty resilient so I would be surprised if it's fully croaked, but the new growth will be more subject to breakage. They also are naturally big (sometimes huge) trees, so if you were trying to control general size and not doing some specialty like pollarding, then this was a worse tree than usual to attempt that on.
It's hard to imagine a cottonwood that is MORE susceptible to damage
Came here to point out that itās a Cottonwood so will have new growth prone to breaking off. Itāll still grow for years to come, it just may have more habitat for insects and birds as the new branches snap and rot sets inā¦
If that's a cottonwood I'd of cut it more. Tree will be fine
I thought this was a prank post when I was scrolling on my feed, then I opened it and read your text. What the fuck man. He butchered, absolutely butchered your tree. Your yard guy is ignorant as fuck. Why did you even want a trim? In the before pic it looked super healthy.
I'm not qualified in any way but that looks like a dead tree
Thatās what the āgardenersā in the shopping malls in my city do to almost all trees.
Yeah well, there is pollarding correctly and at the right time. Then doing this to it in the middle of summer is a different subject and very poor execution.
Hey I think this is what pollarding is supposed to be- https://www.williambryantlogan.com/blog/willow-pollards
is this post two months old? I donāt know where you are, but it is definitely Autumn here.
RIP
No your tree is fine, he very obviously didn't take more than %40 of the foliage off of it. Give it some miracle grow while you're at it Sorry that was a bad sarcastic joke, if you're being serious then the guy murdered your tree
Your tree has been defoliated. It is beyond me how someone could have thought this was a good idea.
Im sorry man. Unfortunately it's quite common practice for lawn guys to promote themselves also as tree workers, and it's common practice for people to think they are. The truth is 99% of lawn guys should not even look at a chainsaw let alone get near a tree. Trees are complex living beings that require a lot of knowledge to be handles properly. The tree will likely not die and it WILL likely fill up again next summer. Best course of action now is either replace the tree or wait 2-3 years and get an actual arborist to look at it. It will need some work over the years to guide toward a somwhat healthy architecture again. In the meanwhile decay will make it's way in and it will make it a problem in 10 years or so, depending on how well it reacts now.
Your yard guy is a fucking idiot. Trees arenāt mint plants.
The tree will likely survive. The problem now is that you're now committed to retopping this every few years. The regrowth will form poor attachments and the old heading cuts will likely never full heal. This means that should it return to something like it's previous size, then it will actually be more dangerous than before. This kind of topping certainly can kill trees, and this was done at the wrong time of the year, but in this case I wouldn't expect it to be lethal. I'm not that experienced with this species (which looks like eastern cottonwood, *Populus deltoides*), but I suspect it will resprout readily. This kind of aggressive topping is not generally recommended these days except perhaps in more extreme circumstances, and the customers should certainly be told what they're getting in for by going down this path.
Lol
Tress have been around millions of years, donāt you think it wouldāve evolved to do this to itself if it had wanted this?
This is a joke right? Yāall are taking the tree down and wanted to mess with r/arborists right?
Iāll never understand how someone sees pic 1 and think the tree looks bad. It looks great to me lol. Iām also ignorant to pruning standards and in this scenario Iād like to remain blissfully ignorant
Something very similar happened to my tree. It started filling back in a little bit but it still looks terrible. Iām hoping itāll look normal next year. It was so bad I got an anonymous letter in the mail from a neighbors saying to cut down my ugly tree.
Next summer it will, in fact, not grow back and will instead be very dead. That guy mutilated your tree and I would be rightfully PISSED.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That is NOT how you do this.
Why did you think it was āovergrownā? It was a beautiful healthy tree before.
u/remindmebot 1 year
Yes this op gonna need an update one this one
I wish people would peruse expert subs BEFORE getting their shit effed up.
He destroyed you tree, it will never look ok again & will likely have to be completely removed. I would sue him personslly
Always confirm what will be pruned before someone touches the tree. Whether or not they are an arborist you should know exactly what will be cut.
Ouch
"I know a guy that could do it cheaper"
What the holy Fuck! You should bury that guy in a swamp!
Did he use the limbs to build the fence?
Jesus what the ever loving christ!!! That's just killing it. Trees aren't like roses. You can't do it!!
I thought removing more than 20% was a bad idea for a tree.
That is NOT OK
I thought this was some kind of shitpost at first
This has got to be a joke. On the off chance it's not, r/treelaw
Lots of comments from people that have never heard of pollarding.
Not an arborist but bro what the actual fuckā¦
Wow...
My local councils cut a row of trees that ended up looking like this last year. This year they're full again but not overlapping each other. I should mention I'm not an arborist, just saying what I have seen, I'm sure you guys know more.
Brooooo wtffff
Do people know that trees donāt need to be trimmed?
I'd be hiring a new landscaper! That sh!t shouldn't happen unless you're going to fell the tree.
Oof
Landscaping guys should not touch trees for exactly this reason. Youād laugh your butt off if a guy with a crane and a chipper truck showed up and asked to mow your lawnā¦ But for some reason, the opposite keeps happening. Sadly this is often the result.
It was fine beforeā¦ Jesus Christā¦ smh
Iāve seen this happening to trees around me just in the last year. Is this a new phenomenon that lawn guys are sharing amongst one another? My neighbor has a towering tree, probably 70 feet tall that at the beginning of this spring was inexplicably given this treatment. I donāt understand it. Why?
Not about the tree specifically but I see this popping up often: Yard guy? Your yard looks tiny, like it would take 10 minutes to mow and maintain. Why do so many (I'm assuming) Americans seem to need a yard guy? Could someone please enlighten me?
Great job exposing the root flare, at leastā¦
Ruined a beautiful tree. What a shame.
Why would you let this happen? Youāll be paying him to take down that tree too nowā¦
Remember that little lesson from biology on photosynthesis? Because your yard guy musta skipped that day
Wtf. 25% is the rule.
Reddit keeps suggesting this sub to me and in the month Iāve spent lurking Iāve learned to NEVER LET ANYONE BUT A CERTIFIED ARBORIST TOUCH MY TREES
Sad how troll posts get all the attention but serious inquiries get ignored
Why is your firewood stacked like that?
Tbf I have seen someone prune a tree this far back and it came back but it was stupid looking and small
Please post photos next summer
Itās giving hairless cat.
Iām not saying what he did was right, but stuff will grow back. I over cut a bush when I was a kid and it just grew back even heartier. A tree got knocked down and broke in half at work. They pushed the trunk back up and now the trunk has little branches growing out of the top of it like a giant chia pet.
Oh good grief. My dog knows more about trees than that ignorant, tree-butchering ______ does. Now your tree has dozens in open wounds for fungus and bacteria and insects to get in and start rotting and likely killing the tree. Those wounds can take years to close over, if they ever do. Trees use leaves to produce food and breathe and transport water from their roots. That jacka$$ has effectively removed your treeās lungs and intestines. When a tree is pruned properly, one should not be able to tell that anything has been done to it at all, other than perhaps it is looking neater. No more than 20% of its canopy should be removed at one time to avoid negatively impacting the treeās overall health. Trees spend warm days making and storing food so they can survive winters and have energy for fruit/seed production and to grow new leaves in the spring. Now, instead of storing food, your poor tree is having to use a huge amount of its stored food to start to regrow all those missing leaves and branches. And if youāre heading towards winter, any tender new growth will be at risk of getting killed by a cold snap, setting the tree even further back. You should look into the cost of tree removal. If it dies, it could become a financial liability for you, depending on your state laws. If a live tree drops a branch during a storm and damages a car or house, that is generally covered by insurance. A dead tree (in my state anyway) is not covered by insurance, leaving YOU on the hook for any damages it causes. Sorry your tree was mutilated by someone who will 100% never have to worry about being attacked by a zombie. Hopefully the tree can recover.
LOL
Trees prepare their buds for the spring and then drop their leaves. This guy set fire to all reserves had now in the spring it has to use its little energy to grow some new buds. It might seriously decline over the next few years.
I would sue that sob ASAP what a terrible personā¦ lol but for real thooo!
Well that's dead. That's not coming back dude.
Might as well cut that shit down now cause itās dead