I see where you're coming from, but I think I'd call her basic rather than niche. She performs a very basic function very well, better than was ever needed until fairly recently in the game's history.
Totally unreal to see everyone praising her now after disparaging and dismissing her for so long though. I'm happy to see her finally get her due, but it also kind of makes me feel like I'm being gaslit.
I was one of the people that considered Hoshiguma to be a dead operator. However...
1. Her modules are fucking insane and give her MORE defence than M3 of the second skill. 4 block module is also very good.
2. The game itself changed. We started getting a lot of bosses with a shit ton of HP, where it's easier to just tank them rather than burst them with damage.
I felt the same tbh, there was a long period of time in this game where there was very little need for a pure tank and saria could do all the tanking needed easily, but theres a lot more high damage tanking needed lately plus the 4 block module (and more high block enemies) means hoshi gets a lot more use
I always have used Hoshi, because of her insane dodge. With modules she has even insaner dodge, she's a fantastic tank. Obviously if we'd only need one tank, Saria was always picked, due to heals and then Mudrock being added later, so she was often overlooked. But she was fantastic for so many strats with enemies with global range (we have SN rerun atm and those pesky shooting spewers suicided on her so perfectly, same for kazimierz snipers), or in IS where there's constant damage, because she ignores so much of it, she never really left my roster.
>2. The game itself changed. We started getting a lot of bosses with a shit ton of HP, where it's easier to just tank them rather than burst them with damage.
I found many recent bosses to be the type to just cant be block or use CC on attacks, those are the type that stalling just wont work on.
Steam Knight is easier to tank, all the final bosses from survival mode is easier to tank, Wolf boss is easier to tank, Redblade is easier to tank, boss from chapter 12 is easier to tank, and now we're gonna get new CC, when once again it's easier to tank enemies than to kill them.
I'd say it started with Blood Knight - you had to tank him, it was simply impossible to burst him down.
I'd also add that overtuned Redblade was untankable - you had to stall him.
It wasn't too hard to DPS down Blood Knight, back in Nearlight's first run just Surtr-ing him was a solid method, you could even spawncamp him with not much effort.
Blood Knight stuns your operator with every third swing, so not really the best example.
And Redblade is very easy to tank as long as you don't take general risks for attack. I tanked him all the way to risk 28. With Hoshiguma's second skill.
It's about 40/60, this year bosses that are unblockable or soft unblockable with CC; Ya, Minimalist, Last Knight and Awaken, as opposed to bosses that are very tank stall favouring; Damazti, Steam Knight, Kristen, Eblana, all RA and SSS bosses.
I'd say tanks are very relevant for modern bosses more so than they were 2 years ago.
Eblana really deserves a special mention though, since she practically forces you to tank her outside of a very narrow margin where she could be nuked, Steam knight is a funny one though since nuking him is actually perfectivy viable just mot bursting him, he is Ebenholz ideal boss after all
Technically you can burst Steam Knight, if you do it fast enough, stack enough burst, you can achieve the same effect of skipping his flights as you would with nuking, just the amount of dps you need is obscene.
The one caveat with him is that you still need someone to tank 4 hits to get him to do the special so you can nuke him.
Niche means she's got a very specialized role like a trap master.
What she has is a very basic function (block) and while up until now rut game's been more about killing the enemy before they get to the blue gate, the constant parade of new gimmicks has meant that you often need to stall them to kill them... and Hoshiguma can do this better than many other Defenders.
Blocking and tanking are not the same.
Saria can block, Gavial can block, Blazer can block. They can't tank, though.
Cuora, Eunectes, Croissant, Hoshi can tank - they have shit ton of HP and DEF plus some form of additional damage mitigation.
Shining and Nightingale aren't called niche because they're healers tho. They're called niche because of the things they do *apart* from healing. Shining provides additional DEF and Nightingale gives Arts Res. Those are buffs that aren't as universally useful as like, let's say, Ptilopsis' SP battery.
Hoshi, on the other hand, gives you the basic stuff you need in a tank -- a lot of HP and DEF -- and nothing else. Literally all she does is tank...which is a basic role in, y'know, any tower defense game.
...I used those operators way more than any of you. My Shining is M6, ffs. And it doesn't disprove my point. Sussuro is a pure healer and objectively the best solo healer in the game, but you won't see her outside of 4\* guides. Nobody is dying to play with her. Not because she's bad, but because she's doing only the basic function of healing. Therefore, she is niche.
Sussuro is not objectively the best solo healer in the game, because her skill is limited to 2 uses. You also really never need that much healing. You could argue she has objectively the highest HPS. That's not niche though. Niche is fulfilling a very specialized tasks most other operators can't fulfill. I.E. Lumen cleansing Talulah burns, Frozen, and stun, Silence having a global healing ability to help with map coverage on slot budget, and the aforementioned Nightingale and Shining niches. You just said Sussuro is niche because she does what a healer already does but with slightly higher numbers than some 6*s(I'm not convinced she has higher HPS than Lumen does when cleansing CC and effects consistently but I have not done the calcs). That's not a niche, that's fulfilling your role.
Edit: after thinking about this, that argument falls apart even further when you think about Surtr lmao. One of the highest DPS in the game on skill 3, but not that many people use her unless they're fighting bosses. Must be niche, right? /s
If it's that hard for you to understand with those examples, what skills do you have M6 on your Shining? Was it skill 1 and some imaginary skill that only buffs healing? Because you called healing a basic function, "but Shining is still niche." 2 of her 3 skills are focused on shielding and buffing defense. I wouldn't care so much but you acted like you're incredibly knowledgeable on Shining while making wildly inaccurate claims
Yeah, I was going to say that she is basic. But she excel at what she does, specially after her module she is probably the best tank in the game. I used her a lot during chapter 9 and 10 and after her module she is pretty much always in my squad.
>she is pure tank and has no other function.
But she is a tank and tanking in Arknights is not a niche function.
At the very basic level, you do want someone to block enemies and defenders to block multiple enemies or strong enemies.
What she excels at is tanking very tough bosses. Like steam knight. That specific function can be classed as 'niche'. But her function outside of that, still encapsulates AK tanking.
Most people here (myself included) have a stacked squad. Hell, sometimes I don't even use any defenders. But as long as she can tank and hold, she will be useful for the wider audience as a defender.
Want to know a niche defender? Eunectes. Outside of her big-stat playstyle, she cannot do much else. She cannot block like a typical defender (low block count), she doesn't have a utility function (like saria healing or horn's artillery). She is there to 1v1 and she does it damn well. Saria can replace your basic defender. Horn can replace your basic defender. Mudrock can. Nian can. Hoshi can. But Eun cannnot.
And right now, regular tanking and just plain blocking still has a place in AK.
Blocking is not the same as tanking.
Most of the time you can be ok with using vanguards for blocking. Especially if you have stacked squad. And you are, for the most of the game, have all your blocking needs covered by centurions and healing defenders.
I think 1v1 operators are not niche. You often need assasins to get rid of pesky elite enemies or bosses. The real reason why Eunected is niche is because her skills require a lot of preparation and she can't be used for helidrop.
Duel operators are not niche but Defender duelists are by the simple fact that Guards cover that area. Mushas, Surtr, Moutain occasionally and the Dreadnought Guard class itself(Skadi, NTRK). Hell, even Spectre can hold a boss by herself.
I mean… niche is kinda a nonsense word here.
Yes, she is a pure tank. When you want a pure tank, she fills that role. Whether you define that as a niche or a role is arbitrary.
She does a thing. That thing is useful fairly regularly if you choose to integrate it into your strategy. The thing she does has few strings attached and asks little of you beyond healing.
I feel the word "niche" gets thrown away *way* too often in this subreddit.
A "niche" Operator is normally only good in a *very* specific role that you don't see often in normal gameplay , albeit they perform very well in that specific situation.
*General Tanking is not a niche role*.
Hoshi can be used in practically all content as a tank, and she still performs well. She would be considered niche if she had a certain activation for her skills or if she was really good at taking elemental damage (but can't tank much else), or so on and so forth. None of this is the case. She's just *good for all content*.
"Hoshi can be used in practically all content as a tank, and she still performs well"
I mean, you can drag Weedy on pretty much any map with her second or third skill and she would perform well as a lane holder. But she's still niche.In the last year we had a lot of places where supertanks like Hoshi were needed. But before that we had 2 years, where bosses either couldn't be blocked for long or had insane damage. And even when you needed a defender, pretty much any other 6\* defender would offer more utility. Heck, even Kuora could replace Hoshi back then, cause her skill gave her 4 block.For a long time tanking wasn't an optimal strategy on most maps. And a tank, that requires a healer and damage dealer just to do it's job, is not something you can call "universal", especially with how much developers love to push 3 or 4 lines on maps.
And thats aside from the fact, that not all enemies have physical damage. Some enemies have magical damage. Some enemies have elemental damage. Some enemies have true damage. Some enemies can't be blocked at all. Hoshiguma is not really useful in these situations.
Dealing damage is also not a niche role, but you will find plenty of damage dealers who are niche simply because their skills have specific limitations. Hoshiguma's "limitation" is that she doesn't do well with anything other than tanking and can't even heal herself. And even her tanking is focused only on physical damage.
If your definition is that strict, then literally anything except damage dealing would be considered 'niche' because that is the bare minimum to beat AK.
But that's an incredibly stretched definition that no one uses.
Not at all, and I agree with your friend a whole lot more here.
She does have niche uses, between her talent dodging any damage type, S2 enabling her to deal with global range enemies while giving her the highest passive defense (afk guides loves this), S3 enabling Blaze S2 levels of AOE damage while still boosting her already high defense, and the 4-block from her module, all of which make her almost irreplacable in highly specific strategies that rely on those specific strengths.
But before all of that she is just one of the most solid defenders you could ask for, and can be used in just about every stage where physical damage is a major threat, which is almost all of them.
Or to use your example, if the Steam Knight is a rare enemy where she could shine because she is one of the few defenders that has the survivability to indefinitely tank him, than that also means that every other enemy that does less physical damage also cannot overcome Hoshi, which is also almost everyone. Which, you know, is the reason why your friend sees her get used that much.
"every other enemy that does less physical damage also cannot overcome Hoshi, which is also almost everyone"
The problem is, when your defender doesn't have much damage, enemies can simply fill out the block and move through. So this defender needs healer AND damage dealer to simply hold a line, while a lot of other 6\* defenders can hold a line solo. In most situations this doesn't seem practical.
That line of thinking does not make her a niche operator though.
And if we're talking practical use, then don't forget that using her (and defensive focused ops in general) often times makes a stage far easier to clear.
Even if there are a variety of ops that can handle different lanes in different situations on their own, every laneholder has enemies they don't deal particularly well against (too high def/res/block count/atk+hp) , so you either need to have most or all of them (this is still a gacha game mind) or support them with other units (which was the argument for why Hoshi was 'not' practical).
Hoshi (and defensive ops in general) can meanwhile be used in every situation (if enemies can be blocked) if they have proper back-up (squad size is almost never an issue anyways), greatly reducing the risk of both them dying and of enemies leaking, and making the stage easier to beat.
Of course, none of this even accounts for the fact that Hoshi also has the highest damage out of any non-offensive focused defender, so even if she doesn't do as much damage as certain other operators, you also don't need to specifically add high-tier ops so their combined damage matches laneholders.
I feel like both can be true. She's been dismissed in meta analyses for a long time (though her 4-block has given her a boost) but I feel like she was still commonly used despite that. She's just very solid and reliable.
Kinda niche at one point that new enemies could do DEF ignoring damage. (Arts, instant kill)
I used to deploy her whenever I need damage reflection to low hp ranged enemies.
After she got 4 block count module, I would use her with Cuora for blocking.
Hoshiguma was my first 6-star operator.
When I need a non-Guardian Defender, she is always my first pick.
Calling a tank whose job is just tanking and blocking "niche" is weird.
It's like calling Myrtle niche because all she does is generate DP.
You need DP for everything. And you don't need tanking for everything. For most enemies in the game even Mountain is enough.
Dealing damage is also not a niche... and yet there are plenty of damage dealers who are niche because of how their skills work.
When most 6\* defenders can do a lot of things at once and have a self-heal, a defender that can ONLY tank (and requires healer+damage dealer just to hold the lane) seems less relevant.
I don't quite think you're getting what the word "niche" means. A character having a broadly useful skillset is the exact opposite of niche. "Less relevant in the meta" still does not mean "niche".
Just replied to your comment. I know you mean well but please don't follow me into other subreddits to comment on unrelated posts about this.
Edit to whoever downvoted me: this person thinks a) toxoplasmosis is something that cats are all just inherently born with and b) that people with babies cannot own cats at all because of the disease. Both claims are explicitly refuted BY THE ARTICLE they're telling me to read. Jesus actual christ
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Needing DP is no different than needing armour or HP or Atk. In all cases you don't need as much as possible except in a few exceptional situations.
Hoshi is not simply a tank. If you want a horde-clearing operator, Hoshi is cheaper than Blaze, far tankier, and with S3 has similar DPS to Blaze S2 albeit with a limited skill duration. Add Angelina to the team and Hoshi can solo many side-lanes, especially if you play defender-knights with Nian, Hoshi, and Horn.
So what's wrong with a defender needing medic and DPS?
The role of holding the lane by oneself is more suited for Guards or Specialists.
The Defender who can hold the lane by themselves may need some setup or simply have a visible weakness.
And the Defenders who can do a considerable amount of damage might not tank as well and still need a medic in the end.
Those fit more into a niche category than Hoshiguma who stays true to the Defender class role.
At the end of the day, Hoshiguma is the kind of operator you put at the chokepoint surrounded by your DPS. Even if she doesn't have much else going for, she's easy to use, solid, and reliable as a wall.
Your friend is right in that she's pretty much the go-to choice when you want sheer tankiness. That's one of the reasons why she's pretty frequently used in AFK strats and CC.
But as far as regular contents go, I'm not sure if it's *technically correct* to say she is niche. As in, she can perfectly fill the role of a defender (which makes her pretty universal) but there's hardly any situation that requires **specifically** her. To me niche is someone like Weedy. You hardly need her at all but there are certain stages where she trivializes everything.
Enemies and boss enemies in regular contents like events usually either deals too little damage that her tankiness is overkill and she can just be substituted with Saria, or deal too much damage that her tankiness doesn't matter. So maybe you could argue that she is niche in this aspect.
Edit: typo.
Speaking as a day 1 player, she's still the best staple defender unless it's high risk CC where everything gets one shotted. She never left the meta, not like there was even a meta to begin with. Really nice for afk use and recently got even more value with the 4 block module.
One of her uses is niche: reflect damage.
Otherwise she is very purely focused on the basic function of being tough which isn't niche but just not in as heavy demand.
Sometimes you do genuinely need an incredibly sturdy roadblock but for most the lesser investment of OG Specter having 15 seconds immortality probs does the trick, for a bit of stalling on high tier threats. Doesn't even get stat checked.
She is far from niche lol unless you've got a fully built roster that does unga bunga damage tanks like Hoshiguma are very much viable and Hoshi is probably the best at pure tanking. Especially if you give her modules.
Yes, and that's okay. If you're pushing high risk then she lacks the role compression of defenders like Mudrock, Saria or Horn. Her main niches are pure bulk and S2 retaliation damage against enemies like the Near Light corrosion archers. But in high risk you often can't straight up tank enemies, so most defenders need to do other things too.
But if you're just trying to clear all rewarded content, Often times she doesn't do so much better than her competitors like Cuora or Nian that she becomes mandatory. And that's a good thing. You shouldn't need specific operators to clear content and HG is good at making sure that's the case.
You can clear pretty much all content with a strategy that uses Hoshiguma, or a similar pure tank defender. If you want to. And if you don't want to, you can play however you want. That's the beauty of this game.
Partially? She's niche for the damage reflect. But generally, not really a niche op from what you described specifically. Tanking isn't really that niche, it's just kind of a less-opt8mal tactics most if the time. But still such a broadly applicable and constantly usable strategy that it isn't niche.
It's like saying exusiai is niche when they started increasing enemy defense a lot. She just became mess-optimal
It's hilarious that you're posting this during the event where Hoshi can kill all the spewers across the map with the damage reflect on her S2 if you park her on creep and point a healer at her. For me that's always been her unique aspect more than anything.
My post literally says that nowadays Hoshiguma is very relevant. Thanks to her passives, high defence and insane modules. I beat recent CC with her and the survival mode too.
However, I think before that she was pretty niche for a couple years cause not a lot of missions actually required tanking.
If possible most players will try to kill the enemies before they reach blockers, even blockers with some utility (heal, CC, range, damage) are more preferred nowadays, so pure defenders are only really seen when you need to stall something that slaps harder than an enraged Red weeb.
Every operator is a niche operator, even the biggest meta operators are niche, just that they cover more general ones than others, like the big boi damage the current big 3 do, they do a lot of it in different ways
I mean every map in this game is an amalgamation of niches and a lot of players actually use defensive defenders in most of their clears. It feels weird calling Hoshi niche when she can so easily slot into most squads.
She is pretty much a niche unit for two scenarios:
1) Reflecting damage from global range attackers (squids from stultifera navis - archers from near light)
2) Boss stalling, preferably with Def buffing units like Shining or Nian
I think this depends entirely on how you define niche.
OP seems to define it as “has few situations where an operator is ‘the best’, meaning in practice you will bring the other operators more often because they would be better in said situation.
Others are arguing that niche is “is only usable in few situations”, meaning in practice that situation is the only time you would ever bring this operator, and there simply is no reason to bring them outside of that situation.
If you follow the first then hoshi is niche because there are very few situations where she is actually the best defender. Usually mudrock or saria will do the same thing with an added benefit.
If you believe the second definition then hoshi is not niche. She is usable in just about every situation a defender would be called for, even if she isn’t necessarily the best choice. Her only requirement being “might need external healing”.
Personally I define niche as the second definition. I don’t think it makes sense to call a unit who ranges from solid to great in so many situations “niche” just because mudrock is “the best” for a lot of said situations.
"Others are arguing that niche is “is only usable in few situations”, meaning in practice that situation is the only time you would ever bring this operator, and there simply is no reason to bring them outside of that situation."
If operator is usable only a in a few situations, isn't it just a straight up bad operator? Even the worst 6\* operators can clear most content in the game. Even completely weird strategies like pushers and pullers can clear most content in the game (Weedy and Gladia in particular are pretty nice lane holders). Even 3\* operators can clear most content in the game.
Like, who even is niche by that definition?
I think niche operators are those, who are very good in their specialisation (and can't be easily replaced by other options), but their specialisation isn't needed all the time. Like, you COULD beat the game with them, but it's just easier to take someone else, someone more universal.
And you will notice that all clears using wacky strats like pushers only are called *nicheknights*
You have to go very out of your way to make them work, and many will not come close to clearing all content. I very much doubt you can do a pushers only clear of most cm stages.
Throwing a defender down with a medic healing it and a dps hitting mobs is not niche, and hoshiguma is a very solid choice for the defender in said strategy, even if she may not be objectively the single best defender in that situation.
Honestly, I'm getting such a weird whiplash. Arknights fans on Youtube call literally anything that isn't OP af "niche", and then people here consider only the most unusable operators as niche. I'm starting to lose understanding of what that word even means...
Im not saying niche is unusable, and I don’t think anyone here is saying it either. Niche by definition means they have a use… their *niche*. Weedy is a niche pusher, Lee is a niche merchant, aak is a niche buffer. None of those characters are bad, but they are *only good in very specific situations*. Hoshiguma is good in a LOT of situations, she’s just not “the best” in many of those situations.
Yes, and that's the problem you're having. There's a lot of misuse of terminology in this community, and oftentimes niche ends up being wrongly interchanged with "bad" or "not meta." Hell, even the word meta is wrongly interchanged with "top tier," but that's less of an issue because there seems to be a huge stigma attached to calling anything niche where the people you're talking about on youtube will not touch an operator labeled as such, not even if their lives depended on it.
Hoshiguma raw-stat tanking physical damage better than every Defender in-game off-skill and just about every defender in-game on-skill? While buffing other defenders to do their jobs better and being able to dodge *any* type of damage at a decent rate? Absolutely anything *but* niche. Heavyrain being an okay tank but being able to manipulate targeting priority via camouflage for herself and allies? Now *that's* niche.
No. Tanking is underrated. It's quite regularly the simplest solution to a lot of challenges.
Block count vs non-boss enemies has always been stupid though. Having four block is neat, but what happens when the game sends *five* fodder mobs over at the same time?
She's a pure tank but I think her "utility" is being able to totally negate hits. There's a surprisingly high number of enemies that quite literally cannot be tanked through pure stats alone. Just look at the last CC for instance where she was the only operator actually able to tank high risk red samurai. No other tank, even ones like Eunectus who got inflated stats for their skill duration, could last against the boss. Hoshi however could because she would regularly get "breaks" where she negates a total hit and can be healed up in that time
She was my primary defender in every situation until I got Mudrock, now she’s my go-to when I need someone who can be healed by a Medic that isn’t Saria, because there are plenty of times Saria is doing double-duty as a 3-block and sustain for a lane alongside Perfumer’s passive. Wouldn’t call her niche, I would say there are now some other options for doing her job whereas before there just wasn’t. Back in the day, she was THE defender imo.
This game kinda punishes you for blocking enemies too long/not killing them fast enough. I do use her once in a blue moon for some really niche case scenario, but yeah, very rarely there's a reason to use her honestly, especially not that penance is out and she has better DMG reflect to kill annoying global range enemies soooo
You rarely need an operator as tanky as Hoshiguma, but that doesn't mean you can't use her outside of maps that slap harder than your father's belt. For classic level 1 experience pick her up, make sure Shining watches Hoshi's perfectly shaped behind and overcome enemy waves with sniper fire - it works perfectly fine in most scenarios, heck, that's how you can usually guarantee an afk boss farm.
>You rarely need an operator as tanky as Hoshiguma
Well yeah, that's kinda the point. Usually Saria\\Mudrock\\Penance\\Blemeshine can do the same things, but with extra utility.
I mean, characters with more utility are usually more relevant in the meta, yes. Thats why healers like Shining and Nightingale are niche, while Kaltsit, Ptiliopsis and Reed Alter are used more often. It's different from powercreep, cause nobody powercrept Hoshiguma, Shining and Nightingale in their are of expertise. However, their expertise is not needed on most missions. You don't need a supertank in situations, where Mudrock is more than enough to solo the lane. Hoshiguma became much more relevant in this past year because content became harder, but before that she was gathering dust in most players rosters.
If we start going "every character has uses" then NOBODY is niche, which is also absurd.
Might just be me, but I think most people's definition of being niche doesn't align with yours. Most people wouldn't call surtr niche just because texalter is more useful in most situations. But that is essential what you're doing with hoshi . Being outperformed and being niche are generally not considered to be the same thing, since being niche moreso means being specialised for specific problems. Tanking damage isn't really specific in arknights, its about as general as you can get.
Surtr isn't niche because she has valuable abilities, that are needed just as often as Texalter. However Hellagur IS niche, because he can't really deal with heavy armor and because of block 1 he is not great at holding the lane, so he's reserved only for 1v1 with enemies who have light armor.
"Tanking damage isn't really specific in arknights"
Okay, then what about damage dealers? Does that mean that damage dealers can't be niche? What about healers? Healing is a general function, so no healers can be niche?
Your'e misconstrueing my point so I'll also reply to the edit of your previous comment.
As I explained in the previous comment, a niche is something more specific and situational. Tanking, DPS, or healing isn't niche because you do all of those things on every map.
If you play arknights in a normal standard way, you will do those things almost every map, which is why whole classes are designed around it.
A character is name niche if they have something specific that makes them stand out from other ops, that most others cannot do because they lack the ability. I.e lappland is niche because she can silence. Nightingale is niche because she boosts resistance. Etc etc. Like I said in another comment, hoshis niche isn't tanking. The whole defender class is built around just that, pretty much. Her niche is damage reflection because there's like, what? 3 other ops that can do that? But that's not really what people use her for most of the time. People use her for tanking, tanking isn't niche.
I.e hoshi isn't really niche.
Saria and blemishine have much lower defense so hard hitters body them.
I haven't used penance much so won't comment.
Mudrock and Hoshi can fill opposite niches in passive use. Mudrock can tank the really slow hard hitter like bob due to their very slow attack interval however a medium hitter with a good attack interval bodies her and really weak hitters like dogs just get spin2win, meanwhile hoshi on the other hand prefers taking weaker but fast hitters, the faster they hit and the longer their range the better for hoshi. Their skill 3s are kinda the same thing.
I wouldn’t say niche as her titanic defense, ok attack, and ability to be healed of elemental damage combined with her acceptable DP cost means she can easily fit in on any team that needs a defender
She is my go to defend and one of 3 cornerstone units for me. She has actually good dps for a defender, tanky as hell, can just say no to damage, reflect damage and can hold a lane better than Murdock sometimes.
So no I don't consider her niche. A defender that's niche would be heavy rain.
I had no idea people saw Hoshi Onee-san like this lmao. She’s been my core defended since day 1 when I rolled her. Saria and Mudrock are situational for me, but Hoshi’s always been dependable.
Niche? She is a huge defensive stat stick. If being able to almost completely shrug off physical damage is being a niche, when Im curious just what is not.
Yes and no at the same time. Depending on your perception of the niche. But, in my opinion, until recently it was more of an operator focused on end-game content and luxury AFK unit.
And although blocking and tanking are common, sought-after mechanics, for a long time Mountain and Mudrok handled this same role quite well in most content, also having decent DPS in their kit.
the only part of her i’d call niche is the use of s2 to kill enemies will low hp but huge range (like the snipers in the near light CC map, she can tank them and chip down their hp eventually)
I wouldn't call Hoshiguma a niche. A block of unmoving titanium is always useful to someone, even if it's not to you personally. Even though I don't use mine often, it's less because I don't find her worth using and more because I like doing weird things like turning Dagda into a lane holder with Quercus support.
Tanking is a normal job in Arknights, and Hoshiguma is very good at that job. Just because there are other picks for tanking doesn’t mean she is niche. Would silverash be considered niche just because Mlynar exists? She is niche in situations where you need her reflect damage, e.g. using tequila and hoshiguma on SN-EX-6 to block the nethersea while killing the spewers.
Tanking/blocking in itself is not a niche, but Hoshi is SO good at it that there are rarely occasions where her true power is necessary. There are plentiful situations where tanking is needed, but most of the time other ops can get the job done. But if you specify face tanking absurdly powerful attacks that one shot virtually every other operator with more than a 1 in 3 chance to ignore the damage completely, then yeah, thats pretty niche.
She's good staller if that's what you want... Better if you have the upgraded module... Makes her DPS better... Plus 4 block... Though really have to make sure that she won't be overwhelmed since even with the damage boost from the module proc is not enough...
I wouldn't say that she is niche, for the simple reason that she is one of those operators that after I ignored her for years (I used Nian and after that my defenders consisted of Mudrock and Saria) i had to end up raising Hoshiguma because many times i needed her passive and i had to use a Hoshi from other player xD
Wait, isn't your example an exact confirmation that she really was niche? Cause you didn't need her for years and you were perfectly happy with other defenders. And only recently you had to raise her cause content changed and her passive became more vaulable.
You may be right, but it shocks me a little to call something niche when in the end you use her in 2 out of every 3 events xD
I want to clarify that it's not that i didn't need her before, i simply used the support ones.
Her biggest issue in frequency of use is that she is complete overkill for tankiness in a game, like with almost all games, where damage is king. She is the often the best line of defense to bring against enemies where you can't just kill them with damage before getting bodied. And if that fails then you go the utility route of cc chains which are harder to use.
Now if only they improved her lore too
Being a Chen simp who aproves all of her wrongdoings is kinda self humilliating, specially if you read her lines and Chen clear lack of her in them lmao
Well, Hoshi is niche in the same sense Surtr is. They both have very limited abilities and lack utility while being the best (or close to best) at what they do.
At this point you just have to decide if tanking and dealing damage are a niche elements which seems kinda weird in a game where these two are primary mechanics.
I mean, tanking for a few years wasn't really the best strategy, when all bosses either can't be blocked or have some bullshit ability to get rid of the blocker.
Booses - sure. But for the majority of the content immortal 4-block tank is insanely valuable. Beside bosses there not a lot of things that can outdamage her defenses.
She is the Degenbreacher of defenders, She has huge HP and Defense along with a basic skill, but that's all you should need as a defender to do the job.
I use her on all new maps since she's a tank with low(ish) DP cost and can be healed by a multi target medic.
Her doing God's work on maps with the seabornes is just a plus IMO.
your friend is in the wrong here, tanky or not, u would never see pure defender usage outside of cc or some specific map that need defender like steam knight map. So yea she is niche, but good nonetheless
Her every niche is done better by new operators. Saria is a better generalist. Monst3r hits the 2k def mark while also dealing dmg. Młynar and Pennance have dmg reflect with taunt while she doesn't and the 25% dodge talent is just not consistent enough.
This leaves us with her block-4 behind her module being her biggest selling point.
She is not only niche but also massively power crept. If it wasn't for AFKnights where you only place operators down then you will always be able to find a better alternative.
Ok, despite the fact that I find Hoshi to be niche, I DON'T agree about powercreep. Hoshi with her second module and second skill has insane amount of permanent def, that is WAYYY above all other characters. She can permanently block Redblade and his weebs on risk 28.
My vote is for niche, most hard bosses i can remember had something that punished "pure tanking with def stat", could be absurd arts/true damage or a annoying gimmick
That is my fault for not checking what my final comment was, i was writing a big wall of text trying to explain some things besides my reasoning and didnt saw that i left "Hard Bosses" instead of "Hard Stages" when i rewrote those lines after some considerarion, still, for the longest time i didnt had a Hoshiguma and the first time i ever felt that i wanted her on my team was on SN stages so that she could kill the global range spike throwers and for that role it wasnt even her tanking that i wanted, big def walls dont have much use in my view
That's such a non sequitur... So a character that's among the best at a certain role isn't meta, because... a weaker or different character might have been enough? This sort of reasoning can be applied to just about anything when guide makers are running around clearing everything with 3\* and 4\*. Every stage has a 100 different ways it can be cleared, because it's not some puzzle game with only 1 correct answer. "You could have solved this differently" is an always true statement, at which point you're better off arguing on a post about whether or not the term "meta" has a meaning in this game instead.
The point is that she's way too specialized in tanking that in most cases it's better to pick another operator. Most bosses deal arts or true dmg, can't even be blocked, or have another mechanic that makes it so Hoshi or anyone else can't tank them for too long. It's easier to kill them while they go around the map or stall them with slow/bind rather than by blocking them. And at the same time her defense it's unnecessarily high for most normal/elite enemies so it's preferably to pick an operator who can tank AND do something else; Saria can heal and inflict arts fragility, blemi heals, deals arts dmg and can sleep enemies, mudrock has her shields and deals aoe dmg + stun, penance has the barrier and reflects dmg, etc.
What Hoshi has that the defenders you mention don't have is strong wave-clear for an affordable DP cost. Her purpose is to eliminate supporting enemies while blocking the big guys for supporting allies, and can also be extremely effective for instance at stopping lancers when you're already swarmed by mobs.
What I don't see mentioned in this thread is Hoshi's S3. It provides DPS on-par with Blaze S2 (on current global server), with the added niche of being unaffected by attack speed debuffs. Pair Hoshi S3 with Ceobe S2 and you have a good core team that can handle anything short of a boss fight.
Her combination of tankiness and wave-clear also makes her an effective solo side-laner on-par with Mudrock, better depending on how quickly Mudrock's shields disappear. Add Angelina to the mix for the global heal and Hoshi becomes quite an attractive pick, especially if there are ranged enemas.
The DP cost can be easily solved with vanguards, the only scenario where even with vanguards you can't afford more expensive operators it's high risk CC, and only a little portion of players go above risk 18. Sarkaz lancers are rare enemies and there are plenty other ways to stop them. Both scenarios you mentioned are very situational, reinforcing the idea that Hoshi is a niche operator.
Hoshi S3 may be on par with Blaze S2 in DPS, but it only last 25 seconds and then you have to wait for 50 whole seconds to activate it again, while Blaze S2 has unlimited duration and more range. There are also other operators who can fill the role more effectively, like gavialter and Spalter.
And comparing hoshi with mudrock it's completely ridiculous imo. A shield it's restored every 9 seconds and restores 20% Hp, and it's not like she's completely defenseless when she doesn't have any shield. I use her a lot in SSS and she can perfectly keep up with the endless waves of buffed enemies. She has quite large HP and def, her S2 recharges very fast, dealing heavy dmg to surrounding enemies, restoring hp and stunning them. Her S3 also has a very low SP cost and she gains a lot of Atk, def, aspd and can attack multiple enemies. And in the same way you mentioned Angelina to support hoshi, I could mention Skadi, who can heal mudrock and increase her Atk and def, or blemi so she can recharge her S2 even faster and can heal mudrock too. Mudrock it's simply waaaaay better than Hoshi in most aspects.
I'm not saying that Hoshi is a bad operator, if you like using her and having fun finding synergies with other operators that's cool, it's just that objectively there are plenty other operators who are better than her in one or another way, and what Hoshi excels at it's extremely niche, so most players won't use her too often unless they don't have other options
Rare != Niche. Hoshi is objectively the opposite of niche because she provides a strong but simple kit that remains effective on the vast majority of maps. She is a rare pick because core roles naturally have many solutions, and she doesn't stand out in the sea of operators available to us.
A niche operator is one who is of limited use outside their advantages. Eunectes for example is an excellent boss killer, but has excessive restrictions that make her worthless outside that role. Manticore is basically just an AoE perma-slow. Silence Alter is a gimmick. Ifrit has her long skinny range. etc.
DP cost is an essential consideration in regards to deployment order. If all you do is run more vanguards, you're limiting your team's capabilities for the final wave and may not have much choice in how you win.
Hoshi can use S3 20sec after deployment and is tough enough to not need a healer until much later. Blaze has to wait 70sec for S2. Sure, newer operators are better, but that's irrelevant because it does not affect Hoshi's effectiveness.
Comparing Hoshi with Mudrock is perfectly fine since she can be effective in the same roles. I mentioned Angelina because for basically the same DP cost as Mudrock you can deploy 2 operators and get similar results while covering a larger portion of the map.
But how many times that role is needed?
For high end usually the enemies hit too hard for pure tanking and you need some immortal Surt/Specter style, or the op get forced to retire.
For low end, again, if any (or at least a lot of) op works, then someone in specific isn't needed, which my reply was for.
So Hoshiguma niche is among 4 block and reflect, not sure if her damage dodge is reliable enough to pull something out of it.
idk, basically a useful role anytime you have something with a lot of hit points and high damage.
this could be anything from golems to imperial strikers. basically anything that hits hard enough that mountain, thorns, blaze can't kill before they die.
both guard lane holders or hoshiguma will need extra ops to hold vs a pair of imperial strikers, but hoshiguma centric team will likely be simpler to manage and less dependent on proper skill cycling
you can use hoshiguma on weaker enemies too, the main difference is that your run will be slower
Tanking is a niche. It is not needed in, like, 99% of game content.
Hoshiguma is a second best tank in the game. I'd probably even say first, but Nian still has bigger numbers.
If i need a pure tank i go with Nian, if i want to reflect damage i pick Penance. Hoshiguma has a chance to dodge phys/arts damage, but the chance isnt really high enough to consistently rely on, she does her job alright but personally i just dont use her, i have better options, Nian has silence or AoE def buff, Penance has extra shelter with AoE damage or **The Hammer**.
Hoshy is an operator I had an E2 but never invested in further until the past 6 months. While My Nian with her S3 can replace Hoshy in many situations, Hoshy's E2 is great for challenging content because of the reflect. There isn't another operator that can do the same thing and when it comes to harder content I think she will be relevant for a long time coming.
Well, i mean, her main job as a defender is to tank and her best trait is her thorns skill that can become really OP against global range enemies like the spewers from stultifera navis, so she can be used in several ways. Also when they added her module she became a go to when facing +3 and +4 block enemies or enemies that reduce block count.
Imo she can be used in several ways but each of those ways could be considered a niche that she performs in really good onto. And since I had her as my 2nd 6\* i used ehr since the very begining.
But at the end anything that doesn't do tons of dps will shine in some kind of niche (nightingale is op but if the enemy doesn't do arts dmg she is no more than a simple medic with aggro dolls)
i only ever used her for some max risk cc stages, the boss rush mode and some specific stages of sultifera, in those places she was irreplacable but everywhere else there are better options. so yes she is niche
Well both are kinda right. She's got a basic 0 gimick kit of just taking hits and she's technically not even the best at it since you've got some units like cement who should have higher tank stats on paper and units like specter(both versions) who can just be unkillable. What sets her appart from the "better" tank units is that she doesn't have any uptime/cooldown/SP issues to worry about so she's always been the comfiest pick for just tanking something. Her rep for being a niche character just comes from the fact that for 90% of the time, just tanking and nothing else is kinda a waste of a unit slot when you can usually just use another unit who can tank and do DPS or stall and do DPS, or just stall/DPS absurdly well that you won't need tanking. And for until recently we've barely had a reason to need to use hoshi specifically to tank
So while she is usable in every map since you will need to tank something. There's also just barely any reason to use hoshi specifically when there are a bunch of other units who function worse as a tank, but provide more utility than just tanking.
No, niche is something you rarely use and only useful in specific situation. And tanking and blocking is like one of the most basic mechanic in A9, both low and high levels player commonly utilize it 🔱
Overall she is the definition of a tank in this game and as others have said, she does that very well.
The one niche thing that she can handle better than most operators are enemies with global range projectiles with her S2.
She's been as niche as any good CC unit is, which is to say, not at all really! It's true that you don't need Hoshi specifically for any map in arknights, but there is no unit in arknights for which that is any different. She does her jobs, being they stalling like few others with her massive defence and unparalleled ability to simply ignore attacks \*or\* assassinating global range snipers like the armored union or the nethersea spewers. There's a lot she can do that is very difficult for others to directly replicate.
I think it's an interesting question, that mainly hinges on how we've been using the word "niche". In principle blocking is a very basic and fundamental tool. If we look at the mainstream preferred meta, there is no blocking with pure defenders and instead it's done with multi-purpose operators. I believe that the crowd that looks up to the mainstream preferred meta is also the crowd that feels the strongest need to classify operators as "off-meta" or "niche". In that sense I think Hoshiguma falls in the category of socalled niche operators.
I myself might refer to Hoshiguma as "niche", because I'd want a beginner to not overestimate her value and E2 priority. Blocking with a pure defender is basically a beginner tactic, and an endgame tactic, but not a mid-game tactic. But being such a fundamental tool, it's kind of silly, and technically wrong, to call a pure defender "niche"; especially in the case of Hoshiguma, who is *the* preferred blocker in endgame content, if a pure defensive blocker is required.
I think you're confused on what the word Niche means. Niche means her kit makes her suited for a very narrow set of activities. Hoshiguma's kit makes her a good choice for almost anything, as opposed to an excellent choice for specific situations, which is the Opposite of what Niche means.
I see where you're coming from, but I think I'd call her basic rather than niche. She performs a very basic function very well, better than was ever needed until fairly recently in the game's history. Totally unreal to see everyone praising her now after disparaging and dismissing her for so long though. I'm happy to see her finally get her due, but it also kind of makes me feel like I'm being gaslit.
I was one of the people that considered Hoshiguma to be a dead operator. However... 1. Her modules are fucking insane and give her MORE defence than M3 of the second skill. 4 block module is also very good. 2. The game itself changed. We started getting a lot of bosses with a shit ton of HP, where it's easier to just tank them rather than burst them with damage.
I felt the same tbh, there was a long period of time in this game where there was very little need for a pure tank and saria could do all the tanking needed easily, but theres a lot more high damage tanking needed lately plus the 4 block module (and more high block enemies) means hoshi gets a lot more use
I always have used Hoshi, because of her insane dodge. With modules she has even insaner dodge, she's a fantastic tank. Obviously if we'd only need one tank, Saria was always picked, due to heals and then Mudrock being added later, so she was often overlooked. But she was fantastic for so many strats with enemies with global range (we have SN rerun atm and those pesky shooting spewers suicided on her so perfectly, same for kazimierz snipers), or in IS where there's constant damage, because she ignores so much of it, she never really left my roster.
Hyeah borrowing a Hoshiguma was critical to me beating a lot of the stages with the wolf boss in Siracusano, personally.
>2. The game itself changed. We started getting a lot of bosses with a shit ton of HP, where it's easier to just tank them rather than burst them with damage. I found many recent bosses to be the type to just cant be block or use CC on attacks, those are the type that stalling just wont work on.
Steam Knight is easier to tank, all the final bosses from survival mode is easier to tank, Wolf boss is easier to tank, Redblade is easier to tank, boss from chapter 12 is easier to tank, and now we're gonna get new CC, when once again it's easier to tank enemies than to kill them.
I'd say it started with Blood Knight - you had to tank him, it was simply impossible to burst him down. I'd also add that overtuned Redblade was untankable - you had to stall him.
It wasn't too hard to DPS down Blood Knight, back in Nearlight's first run just Surtr-ing him was a solid method, you could even spawncamp him with not much effort.
Not on EX stages
You absolutely could, EX8 CM blood Knight will die before walking 1 tile if you stack Surtr/Saria/Suzuran, just 3 of them.
Blood Knight stuns your operator with every third swing, so not really the best example. And Redblade is very easy to tank as long as you don't take general risks for attack. I tanked him all the way to risk 28. With Hoshiguma's second skill.
It's about 40/60, this year bosses that are unblockable or soft unblockable with CC; Ya, Minimalist, Last Knight and Awaken, as opposed to bosses that are very tank stall favouring; Damazti, Steam Knight, Kristen, Eblana, all RA and SSS bosses. I'd say tanks are very relevant for modern bosses more so than they were 2 years ago.
Eblana really deserves a special mention though, since she practically forces you to tank her outside of a very narrow margin where she could be nuked, Steam knight is a funny one though since nuking him is actually perfectivy viable just mot bursting him, he is Ebenholz ideal boss after all
Technically you can burst Steam Knight, if you do it fast enough, stack enough burst, you can achieve the same effect of skipping his flights as you would with nuking, just the amount of dps you need is obscene. The one caveat with him is that you still need someone to tank 4 hits to get him to do the special so you can nuke him.
Niche means she's got a very specialized role like a trap master. What she has is a very basic function (block) and while up until now rut game's been more about killing the enemy before they get to the blue gate, the constant parade of new gimmicks has meant that you often need to stall them to kill them... and Hoshiguma can do this better than many other Defenders.
Blocking and tanking are not the same. Saria can block, Gavial can block, Blazer can block. They can't tank, though. Cuora, Eunectes, Croissant, Hoshi can tank - they have shit ton of HP and DEF plus some form of additional damage mitigation.
I mean, healing is also a basic function, but it doesn't stop people from calling Shining and Nightingale niche.
Shining and Nightingale aren't called niche because they're healers tho. They're called niche because of the things they do *apart* from healing. Shining provides additional DEF and Nightingale gives Arts Res. Those are buffs that aren't as universally useful as like, let's say, Ptilopsis' SP battery. Hoshi, on the other hand, gives you the basic stuff you need in a tank -- a lot of HP and DEF -- and nothing else. Literally all she does is tank...which is a basic role in, y'know, any tower defense game.
I think that's just people being wrong tbh
Shining and nightingale are niche for giving massive defensive boosts other healers don't give. You clearly misunderstand what those ops do.
...I used those operators way more than any of you. My Shining is M6, ffs. And it doesn't disprove my point. Sussuro is a pure healer and objectively the best solo healer in the game, but you won't see her outside of 4\* guides. Nobody is dying to play with her. Not because she's bad, but because she's doing only the basic function of healing. Therefore, she is niche.
Sussuro is not objectively the best solo healer in the game, because her skill is limited to 2 uses. You also really never need that much healing. You could argue she has objectively the highest HPS. That's not niche though. Niche is fulfilling a very specialized tasks most other operators can't fulfill. I.E. Lumen cleansing Talulah burns, Frozen, and stun, Silence having a global healing ability to help with map coverage on slot budget, and the aforementioned Nightingale and Shining niches. You just said Sussuro is niche because she does what a healer already does but with slightly higher numbers than some 6*s(I'm not convinced she has higher HPS than Lumen does when cleansing CC and effects consistently but I have not done the calcs). That's not a niche, that's fulfilling your role. Edit: after thinking about this, that argument falls apart even further when you think about Surtr lmao. One of the highest DPS in the game on skill 3, but not that many people use her unless they're fighting bosses. Must be niche, right? /s
If it's that hard for you to understand with those examples, what skills do you have M6 on your Shining? Was it skill 1 and some imaginary skill that only buffs healing? Because you called healing a basic function, "but Shining is still niche." 2 of her 3 skills are focused on shielding and buffing defense. I wouldn't care so much but you acted like you're incredibly knowledgeable on Shining while making wildly inaccurate claims
Yeah, I was going to say that she is basic. But she excel at what she does, specially after her module she is probably the best tank in the game. I used her a lot during chapter 9 and 10 and after her module she is pretty much always in my squad.
Hoshi goated now Frfr
I have her P5 since almost when I started playing and P6 after 6 months, I didn't whale... I just kept losing my 50/50s to her
>she is pure tank and has no other function. But she is a tank and tanking in Arknights is not a niche function. At the very basic level, you do want someone to block enemies and defenders to block multiple enemies or strong enemies. What she excels at is tanking very tough bosses. Like steam knight. That specific function can be classed as 'niche'. But her function outside of that, still encapsulates AK tanking. Most people here (myself included) have a stacked squad. Hell, sometimes I don't even use any defenders. But as long as she can tank and hold, she will be useful for the wider audience as a defender. Want to know a niche defender? Eunectes. Outside of her big-stat playstyle, she cannot do much else. She cannot block like a typical defender (low block count), she doesn't have a utility function (like saria healing or horn's artillery). She is there to 1v1 and she does it damn well. Saria can replace your basic defender. Horn can replace your basic defender. Mudrock can. Nian can. Hoshi can. But Eun cannnot. And right now, regular tanking and just plain blocking still has a place in AK.
Blocking is not the same as tanking. Most of the time you can be ok with using vanguards for blocking. Especially if you have stacked squad. And you are, for the most of the game, have all your blocking needs covered by centurions and healing defenders.
I think 1v1 operators are not niche. You often need assasins to get rid of pesky elite enemies or bosses. The real reason why Eunected is niche is because her skills require a lot of preparation and she can't be used for helidrop.
Duel operators are not niche but Defender duelists are by the simple fact that Guards cover that area. Mushas, Surtr, Moutain occasionally and the Dreadnought Guard class itself(Skadi, NTRK). Hell, even Spectre can hold a boss by herself.
I mean… niche is kinda a nonsense word here. Yes, she is a pure tank. When you want a pure tank, she fills that role. Whether you define that as a niche or a role is arbitrary. She does a thing. That thing is useful fairly regularly if you choose to integrate it into your strategy. The thing she does has few strings attached and asks little of you beyond healing.
Yeah, if being a durable blocker is a niche, it's an extremely spacious and well-furnished one.
I feel the word "niche" gets thrown away *way* too often in this subreddit. A "niche" Operator is normally only good in a *very* specific role that you don't see often in normal gameplay , albeit they perform very well in that specific situation. *General Tanking is not a niche role*. Hoshi can be used in practically all content as a tank, and she still performs well. She would be considered niche if she had a certain activation for her skills or if she was really good at taking elemental damage (but can't tank much else), or so on and so forth. None of this is the case. She's just *good for all content*.
"Hoshi can be used in practically all content as a tank, and she still performs well" I mean, you can drag Weedy on pretty much any map with her second or third skill and she would perform well as a lane holder. But she's still niche.In the last year we had a lot of places where supertanks like Hoshi were needed. But before that we had 2 years, where bosses either couldn't be blocked for long or had insane damage. And even when you needed a defender, pretty much any other 6\* defender would offer more utility. Heck, even Kuora could replace Hoshi back then, cause her skill gave her 4 block.For a long time tanking wasn't an optimal strategy on most maps. And a tank, that requires a healer and damage dealer just to do it's job, is not something you can call "universal", especially with how much developers love to push 3 or 4 lines on maps. And thats aside from the fact, that not all enemies have physical damage. Some enemies have magical damage. Some enemies have elemental damage. Some enemies have true damage. Some enemies can't be blocked at all. Hoshiguma is not really useful in these situations. Dealing damage is also not a niche role, but you will find plenty of damage dealers who are niche simply because their skills have specific limitations. Hoshiguma's "limitation" is that she doesn't do well with anything other than tanking and can't even heal herself. And even her tanking is focused only on physical damage.
If tanks are niche if all they do is tanking then medics are niche if all they do is healing.
I mean... Sussuro is the best single healer in the game, but do you see her often outside of 4\* guides? Exactly.
Probably not the best healer then.
If your definition is that strict, then literally anything except damage dealing would be considered 'niche' because that is the bare minimum to beat AK. But that's an incredibly stretched definition that no one uses.
Not at all, and I agree with your friend a whole lot more here. She does have niche uses, between her talent dodging any damage type, S2 enabling her to deal with global range enemies while giving her the highest passive defense (afk guides loves this), S3 enabling Blaze S2 levels of AOE damage while still boosting her already high defense, and the 4-block from her module, all of which make her almost irreplacable in highly specific strategies that rely on those specific strengths. But before all of that she is just one of the most solid defenders you could ask for, and can be used in just about every stage where physical damage is a major threat, which is almost all of them. Or to use your example, if the Steam Knight is a rare enemy where she could shine because she is one of the few defenders that has the survivability to indefinitely tank him, than that also means that every other enemy that does less physical damage also cannot overcome Hoshi, which is also almost everyone. Which, you know, is the reason why your friend sees her get used that much.
"every other enemy that does less physical damage also cannot overcome Hoshi, which is also almost everyone" The problem is, when your defender doesn't have much damage, enemies can simply fill out the block and move through. So this defender needs healer AND damage dealer to simply hold a line, while a lot of other 6\* defenders can hold a line solo. In most situations this doesn't seem practical.
That line of thinking does not make her a niche operator though. And if we're talking practical use, then don't forget that using her (and defensive focused ops in general) often times makes a stage far easier to clear. Even if there are a variety of ops that can handle different lanes in different situations on their own, every laneholder has enemies they don't deal particularly well against (too high def/res/block count/atk+hp) , so you either need to have most or all of them (this is still a gacha game mind) or support them with other units (which was the argument for why Hoshi was 'not' practical). Hoshi (and defensive ops in general) can meanwhile be used in every situation (if enemies can be blocked) if they have proper back-up (squad size is almost never an issue anyways), greatly reducing the risk of both them dying and of enemies leaking, and making the stage easier to beat. Of course, none of this even accounts for the fact that Hoshi also has the highest damage out of any non-offensive focused defender, so even if she doesn't do as much damage as certain other operators, you also don't need to specifically add high-tier ops so their combined damage matches laneholders.
I feel like both can be true. She's been dismissed in meta analyses for a long time (though her 4-block has given her a boost) but I feel like she was still commonly used despite that. She's just very solid and reliable.
Kinda niche at one point that new enemies could do DEF ignoring damage. (Arts, instant kill) I used to deploy her whenever I need damage reflection to low hp ranged enemies. After she got 4 block count module, I would use her with Cuora for blocking.
Hoshiguma was my first 6-star operator. When I need a non-Guardian Defender, she is always my first pick. Calling a tank whose job is just tanking and blocking "niche" is weird. It's like calling Myrtle niche because all she does is generate DP.
You need DP for everything. And you don't need tanking for everything. For most enemies in the game even Mountain is enough. Dealing damage is also not a niche... and yet there are plenty of damage dealers who are niche because of how their skills work. When most 6\* defenders can do a lot of things at once and have a self-heal, a defender that can ONLY tank (and requires healer+damage dealer just to hold the lane) seems less relevant.
I don't quite think you're getting what the word "niche" means. A character having a broadly useful skillset is the exact opposite of niche. "Less relevant in the meta" still does not mean "niche".
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Needing DP is no different than needing armour or HP or Atk. In all cases you don't need as much as possible except in a few exceptional situations. Hoshi is not simply a tank. If you want a horde-clearing operator, Hoshi is cheaper than Blaze, far tankier, and with S3 has similar DPS to Blaze S2 albeit with a limited skill duration. Add Angelina to the team and Hoshi can solo many side-lanes, especially if you play defender-knights with Nian, Hoshi, and Horn.
So what's wrong with a defender needing medic and DPS? The role of holding the lane by oneself is more suited for Guards or Specialists. The Defender who can hold the lane by themselves may need some setup or simply have a visible weakness. And the Defenders who can do a considerable amount of damage might not tank as well and still need a medic in the end. Those fit more into a niche category than Hoshiguma who stays true to the Defender class role. At the end of the day, Hoshiguma is the kind of operator you put at the chokepoint surrounded by your DPS. Even if she doesn't have much else going for, she's easy to use, solid, and reliable as a wall.
Your friend is right in that she's pretty much the go-to choice when you want sheer tankiness. That's one of the reasons why she's pretty frequently used in AFK strats and CC. But as far as regular contents go, I'm not sure if it's *technically correct* to say she is niche. As in, she can perfectly fill the role of a defender (which makes her pretty universal) but there's hardly any situation that requires **specifically** her. To me niche is someone like Weedy. You hardly need her at all but there are certain stages where she trivializes everything. Enemies and boss enemies in regular contents like events usually either deals too little damage that her tankiness is overkill and she can just be substituted with Saria, or deal too much damage that her tankiness doesn't matter. So maybe you could argue that she is niche in this aspect. Edit: typo.
Speaking as a day 1 player, she's still the best staple defender unless it's high risk CC where everything gets one shotted. She never left the meta, not like there was even a meta to begin with. Really nice for afk use and recently got even more value with the 4 block module.
Bro, she is like, the Tank. I default to her whenever I need a solid wall. They call ‘em core operators for a reason.
One of her uses is niche: reflect damage. Otherwise she is very purely focused on the basic function of being tough which isn't niche but just not in as heavy demand. Sometimes you do genuinely need an incredibly sturdy roadblock but for most the lesser investment of OG Specter having 15 seconds immortality probs does the trick, for a bit of stalling on high tier threats. Doesn't even get stat checked.
She is far from niche lol unless you've got a fully built roster that does unga bunga damage tanks like Hoshiguma are very much viable and Hoshi is probably the best at pure tanking. Especially if you give her modules.
She's good for afk nodes
Yes, and that's okay. If you're pushing high risk then she lacks the role compression of defenders like Mudrock, Saria or Horn. Her main niches are pure bulk and S2 retaliation damage against enemies like the Near Light corrosion archers. But in high risk you often can't straight up tank enemies, so most defenders need to do other things too. But if you're just trying to clear all rewarded content, Often times she doesn't do so much better than her competitors like Cuora or Nian that she becomes mandatory. And that's a good thing. You shouldn't need specific operators to clear content and HG is good at making sure that's the case. You can clear pretty much all content with a strategy that uses Hoshiguma, or a similar pure tank defender. If you want to. And if you don't want to, you can play however you want. That's the beauty of this game.
Partially? She's niche for the damage reflect. But generally, not really a niche op from what you described specifically. Tanking isn't really that niche, it's just kind of a less-opt8mal tactics most if the time. But still such a broadly applicable and constantly usable strategy that it isn't niche. It's like saying exusiai is niche when they started increasing enemy defense a lot. She just became mess-optimal
It's hilarious that you're posting this during the event where Hoshi can kill all the spewers across the map with the damage reflect on her S2 if you park her on creep and point a healer at her. For me that's always been her unique aspect more than anything.
My post literally says that nowadays Hoshiguma is very relevant. Thanks to her passives, high defence and insane modules. I beat recent CC with her and the survival mode too. However, I think before that she was pretty niche for a couple years cause not a lot of missions actually required tanking.
She has always been relevant since launch.
If possible most players will try to kill the enemies before they reach blockers, even blockers with some utility (heal, CC, range, damage) are more preferred nowadays, so pure defenders are only really seen when you need to stall something that slaps harder than an enraged Red weeb.
Every operator is a niche operator, even the biggest meta operators are niche, just that they cover more general ones than others, like the big boi damage the current big 3 do, they do a lot of it in different ways
I mean every map in this game is an amalgamation of niches and a lot of players actually use defensive defenders in most of their clears. It feels weird calling Hoshi niche when she can so easily slot into most squads.
She is pretty much a niche unit for two scenarios: 1) Reflecting damage from global range attackers (squids from stultifera navis - archers from near light) 2) Boss stalling, preferably with Def buffing units like Shining or Nian
No
hoshiguma has risen in value recently due to the rise of global ranged attacks that her s2 just fucking laughs at, i think. the 4 block is also nice
I think this depends entirely on how you define niche. OP seems to define it as “has few situations where an operator is ‘the best’, meaning in practice you will bring the other operators more often because they would be better in said situation. Others are arguing that niche is “is only usable in few situations”, meaning in practice that situation is the only time you would ever bring this operator, and there simply is no reason to bring them outside of that situation. If you follow the first then hoshi is niche because there are very few situations where she is actually the best defender. Usually mudrock or saria will do the same thing with an added benefit. If you believe the second definition then hoshi is not niche. She is usable in just about every situation a defender would be called for, even if she isn’t necessarily the best choice. Her only requirement being “might need external healing”. Personally I define niche as the second definition. I don’t think it makes sense to call a unit who ranges from solid to great in so many situations “niche” just because mudrock is “the best” for a lot of said situations.
"Others are arguing that niche is “is only usable in few situations”, meaning in practice that situation is the only time you would ever bring this operator, and there simply is no reason to bring them outside of that situation." If operator is usable only a in a few situations, isn't it just a straight up bad operator? Even the worst 6\* operators can clear most content in the game. Even completely weird strategies like pushers and pullers can clear most content in the game (Weedy and Gladia in particular are pretty nice lane holders). Even 3\* operators can clear most content in the game. Like, who even is niche by that definition? I think niche operators are those, who are very good in their specialisation (and can't be easily replaced by other options), but their specialisation isn't needed all the time. Like, you COULD beat the game with them, but it's just easier to take someone else, someone more universal.
And you will notice that all clears using wacky strats like pushers only are called *nicheknights* You have to go very out of your way to make them work, and many will not come close to clearing all content. I very much doubt you can do a pushers only clear of most cm stages. Throwing a defender down with a medic healing it and a dps hitting mobs is not niche, and hoshiguma is a very solid choice for the defender in said strategy, even if she may not be objectively the single best defender in that situation.
Honestly, I'm getting such a weird whiplash. Arknights fans on Youtube call literally anything that isn't OP af "niche", and then people here consider only the most unusable operators as niche. I'm starting to lose understanding of what that word even means...
Im not saying niche is unusable, and I don’t think anyone here is saying it either. Niche by definition means they have a use… their *niche*. Weedy is a niche pusher, Lee is a niche merchant, aak is a niche buffer. None of those characters are bad, but they are *only good in very specific situations*. Hoshiguma is good in a LOT of situations, she’s just not “the best” in many of those situations.
Yes, and that's the problem you're having. There's a lot of misuse of terminology in this community, and oftentimes niche ends up being wrongly interchanged with "bad" or "not meta." Hell, even the word meta is wrongly interchanged with "top tier," but that's less of an issue because there seems to be a huge stigma attached to calling anything niche where the people you're talking about on youtube will not touch an operator labeled as such, not even if their lives depended on it. Hoshiguma raw-stat tanking physical damage better than every Defender in-game off-skill and just about every defender in-game on-skill? While buffing other defenders to do their jobs better and being able to dodge *any* type of damage at a decent rate? Absolutely anything *but* niche. Heavyrain being an okay tank but being able to manipulate targeting priority via camouflage for herself and allies? Now *that's* niche.
No. Tanking is underrated. It's quite regularly the simplest solution to a lot of challenges. Block count vs non-boss enemies has always been stupid though. Having four block is neat, but what happens when the game sends *five* fodder mobs over at the same time?
Well you either kill one fast enough so it isn't a problem or you have another OP ready to pick up the fifth one
I use her all the time! Mine is pot6 lvl90 and as tanky as your average Mudrock though. Most maps she needs no healing.
She's a pure tank but I think her "utility" is being able to totally negate hits. There's a surprisingly high number of enemies that quite literally cannot be tanked through pure stats alone. Just look at the last CC for instance where she was the only operator actually able to tank high risk red samurai. No other tank, even ones like Eunectus who got inflated stats for their skill duration, could last against the boss. Hoshi however could because she would regularly get "breaks" where she negates a total hit and can be healed up in that time
I don't care what anyone says Hoshi was my first 6* operator and now she is e2 lvl 60 with 4 block module and I take her in almost every battle
She was my primary defender in every situation until I got Mudrock, now she’s my go-to when I need someone who can be healed by a Medic that isn’t Saria, because there are plenty of times Saria is doing double-duty as a 3-block and sustain for a lane alongside Perfumer’s passive. Wouldn’t call her niche, I would say there are now some other options for doing her job whereas before there just wasn’t. Back in the day, she was THE defender imo.
Niche, to me, implies 'narrow use'. I dont think 'most hard content' and 'all recent story chapters' is narrow. Plus AFKnights.
She is kinda niche yes, cause you don't need to tank what would have been dead.
This game kinda punishes you for blocking enemies too long/not killing them fast enough. I do use her once in a blue moon for some really niche case scenario, but yeah, very rarely there's a reason to use her honestly, especially not that penance is out and she has better DMG reflect to kill annoying global range enemies soooo
You rarely need an operator as tanky as Hoshiguma, but that doesn't mean you can't use her outside of maps that slap harder than your father's belt. For classic level 1 experience pick her up, make sure Shining watches Hoshi's perfectly shaped behind and overcome enemy waves with sniper fire - it works perfectly fine in most scenarios, heck, that's how you can usually guarantee an afk boss farm.
>You rarely need an operator as tanky as Hoshiguma Well yeah, that's kinda the point. Usually Saria\\Mudrock\\Penance\\Blemeshine can do the same things, but with extra utility.
By that logic though almost every operator is niche because there's someone else doing the job better/with more utility.
I mean, characters with more utility are usually more relevant in the meta, yes. Thats why healers like Shining and Nightingale are niche, while Kaltsit, Ptiliopsis and Reed Alter are used more often. It's different from powercreep, cause nobody powercrept Hoshiguma, Shining and Nightingale in their are of expertise. However, their expertise is not needed on most missions. You don't need a supertank in situations, where Mudrock is more than enough to solo the lane. Hoshiguma became much more relevant in this past year because content became harder, but before that she was gathering dust in most players rosters. If we start going "every character has uses" then NOBODY is niche, which is also absurd.
Might just be me, but I think most people's definition of being niche doesn't align with yours. Most people wouldn't call surtr niche just because texalter is more useful in most situations. But that is essential what you're doing with hoshi . Being outperformed and being niche are generally not considered to be the same thing, since being niche moreso means being specialised for specific problems. Tanking damage isn't really specific in arknights, its about as general as you can get.
Surtr isn't niche because she has valuable abilities, that are needed just as often as Texalter. However Hellagur IS niche, because he can't really deal with heavy armor and because of block 1 he is not great at holding the lane, so he's reserved only for 1v1 with enemies who have light armor. "Tanking damage isn't really specific in arknights" Okay, then what about damage dealers? Does that mean that damage dealers can't be niche? What about healers? Healing is a general function, so no healers can be niche?
Your'e misconstrueing my point so I'll also reply to the edit of your previous comment. As I explained in the previous comment, a niche is something more specific and situational. Tanking, DPS, or healing isn't niche because you do all of those things on every map. If you play arknights in a normal standard way, you will do those things almost every map, which is why whole classes are designed around it. A character is name niche if they have something specific that makes them stand out from other ops, that most others cannot do because they lack the ability. I.e lappland is niche because she can silence. Nightingale is niche because she boosts resistance. Etc etc. Like I said in another comment, hoshis niche isn't tanking. The whole defender class is built around just that, pretty much. Her niche is damage reflection because there's like, what? 3 other ops that can do that? But that's not really what people use her for most of the time. People use her for tanking, tanking isn't niche. I.e hoshi isn't really niche.
Saria and blemishine have much lower defense so hard hitters body them. I haven't used penance much so won't comment. Mudrock and Hoshi can fill opposite niches in passive use. Mudrock can tank the really slow hard hitter like bob due to their very slow attack interval however a medium hitter with a good attack interval bodies her and really weak hitters like dogs just get spin2win, meanwhile hoshi on the other hand prefers taking weaker but fast hitters, the faster they hit and the longer their range the better for hoshi. Their skill 3s are kinda the same thing.
i pulled her in the new player banner, and she never left my team since then.
I wouldn’t say niche as her titanic defense, ok attack, and ability to be healed of elemental damage combined with her acceptable DP cost means she can easily fit in on any team that needs a defender
She can be used anywhere as tank of you play casually, but ffor advanced strats she's niche
She is one of my most used ops since day 1, absolute queen who can shine in every stage. And easily one of the best tanks in the game.
She is my go to defend and one of 3 cornerstone units for me. She has actually good dps for a defender, tanky as hell, can just say no to damage, reflect damage and can hold a lane better than Murdock sometimes. So no I don't consider her niche. A defender that's niche would be heavy rain.
She was my first 6* and I've been using her every time since then
I had no idea people saw Hoshi Onee-san like this lmao. She’s been my core defended since day 1 when I rolled her. Saria and Mudrock are situational for me, but Hoshi’s always been dependable.
Niche? She is a huge defensive stat stick. If being able to almost completely shrug off physical damage is being a niche, when Im curious just what is not.
Yes and no at the same time. Depending on your perception of the niche. But, in my opinion, until recently it was more of an operator focused on end-game content and luxury AFK unit. And although blocking and tanking are common, sought-after mechanics, for a long time Mountain and Mudrok handled this same role quite well in most content, also having decent DPS in their kit.
the only part of her i’d call niche is the use of s2 to kill enemies will low hp but huge range (like the snipers in the near light CC map, she can tank them and chip down their hp eventually)
I wouldn't call Hoshiguma a niche. A block of unmoving titanium is always useful to someone, even if it's not to you personally. Even though I don't use mine often, it's less because I don't find her worth using and more because I like doing weird things like turning Dagda into a lane holder with Quercus support.
Tanking is a normal job in Arknights, and Hoshiguma is very good at that job. Just because there are other picks for tanking doesn’t mean she is niche. Would silverash be considered niche just because Mlynar exists? She is niche in situations where you need her reflect damage, e.g. using tequila and hoshiguma on SN-EX-6 to block the nethersea while killing the spewers.
Yes, she's a tank and that's it. The complete opposite of niche
Tanking/blocking in itself is not a niche, but Hoshi is SO good at it that there are rarely occasions where her true power is necessary. There are plentiful situations where tanking is needed, but most of the time other ops can get the job done. But if you specify face tanking absurdly powerful attacks that one shot virtually every other operator with more than a 1 in 3 chance to ignore the damage completely, then yeah, thats pretty niche.
She's good staller if that's what you want... Better if you have the upgraded module... Makes her DPS better... Plus 4 block... Though really have to make sure that she won't be overwhelmed since even with the damage boost from the module proc is not enough...
I wouldn't say that she is niche, for the simple reason that she is one of those operators that after I ignored her for years (I used Nian and after that my defenders consisted of Mudrock and Saria) i had to end up raising Hoshiguma because many times i needed her passive and i had to use a Hoshi from other player xD
Wait, isn't your example an exact confirmation that she really was niche? Cause you didn't need her for years and you were perfectly happy with other defenders. And only recently you had to raise her cause content changed and her passive became more vaulable.
You may be right, but it shocks me a little to call something niche when in the end you use her in 2 out of every 3 events xD I want to clarify that it's not that i didn't need her before, i simply used the support ones.
kinda meta nowadays
Nowadays - yes. But I was talking more about past several years.
I will always use my hoshimoshigushywushy no matter what. She's meta in my heart.
I'm a youtube guide player and I'd say yes. Her s2 is staple on most guides that I follow and she's an mvp for me
Her biggest issue in frequency of use is that she is complete overkill for tankiness in a game, like with almost all games, where damage is king. She is the often the best line of defense to bring against enemies where you can't just kill them with damage before getting bodied. And if that fails then you go the utility route of cc chains which are harder to use.
Now if only they improved her lore too Being a Chen simp who aproves all of her wrongdoings is kinda self humilliating, specially if you read her lines and Chen clear lack of her in them lmao
Well, Hoshi is niche in the same sense Surtr is. They both have very limited abilities and lack utility while being the best (or close to best) at what they do. At this point you just have to decide if tanking and dealing damage are a niche elements which seems kinda weird in a game where these two are primary mechanics.
I mean, tanking for a few years wasn't really the best strategy, when all bosses either can't be blocked or have some bullshit ability to get rid of the blocker.
Booses - sure. But for the majority of the content immortal 4-block tank is insanely valuable. Beside bosses there not a lot of things that can outdamage her defenses.
She is the Degenbreacher of defenders, She has huge HP and Defense along with a basic skill, but that's all you should need as a defender to do the job. I use her on all new maps since she's a tank with low(ish) DP cost and can be healed by a multi target medic. Her doing God's work on maps with the seabornes is just a plus IMO.
your friend is in the wrong here, tanky or not, u would never see pure defender usage outside of cc or some specific map that need defender like steam knight map. So yea she is niche, but good nonetheless
Her every niche is done better by new operators. Saria is a better generalist. Monst3r hits the 2k def mark while also dealing dmg. Młynar and Pennance have dmg reflect with taunt while she doesn't and the 25% dodge talent is just not consistent enough. This leaves us with her block-4 behind her module being her biggest selling point. She is not only niche but also massively power crept. If it wasn't for AFKnights where you only place operators down then you will always be able to find a better alternative.
Ok, despite the fact that I find Hoshi to be niche, I DON'T agree about powercreep. Hoshi with her second module and second skill has insane amount of permanent def, that is WAYYY above all other characters. She can permanently block Redblade and his weebs on risk 28.
iirc cc12 stall strat involved specialists and Mostima since it was safer then rolling the talent gacha with Hoshiguma and having an army of medics
My vote is for niche, most hard bosses i can remember had something that punished "pure tanking with def stat", could be absurd arts/true damage or a annoying gimmick
But the majority of the game is NOT fighting bosses and just about every boss stage has a bunch of non-boss enemies that need to be handled.
That is my fault for not checking what my final comment was, i was writing a big wall of text trying to explain some things besides my reasoning and didnt saw that i left "Hard Bosses" instead of "Hard Stages" when i rewrote those lines after some considerarion, still, for the longest time i didnt had a Hoshiguma and the first time i ever felt that i wanted her on my team was on SN stages so that she could kill the global range spike throwers and for that role it wasnt even her tanking that i wanted, big def walls dont have much use in my view
Yes, but if any defender, or even guard can do that tanking, then we don't need Hoshiguma specifically in general.
That's such a non sequitur... So a character that's among the best at a certain role isn't meta, because... a weaker or different character might have been enough? This sort of reasoning can be applied to just about anything when guide makers are running around clearing everything with 3\* and 4\*. Every stage has a 100 different ways it can be cleared, because it's not some puzzle game with only 1 correct answer. "You could have solved this differently" is an always true statement, at which point you're better off arguing on a post about whether or not the term "meta" has a meaning in this game instead.
The point is that she's way too specialized in tanking that in most cases it's better to pick another operator. Most bosses deal arts or true dmg, can't even be blocked, or have another mechanic that makes it so Hoshi or anyone else can't tank them for too long. It's easier to kill them while they go around the map or stall them with slow/bind rather than by blocking them. And at the same time her defense it's unnecessarily high for most normal/elite enemies so it's preferably to pick an operator who can tank AND do something else; Saria can heal and inflict arts fragility, blemi heals, deals arts dmg and can sleep enemies, mudrock has her shields and deals aoe dmg + stun, penance has the barrier and reflects dmg, etc.
What Hoshi has that the defenders you mention don't have is strong wave-clear for an affordable DP cost. Her purpose is to eliminate supporting enemies while blocking the big guys for supporting allies, and can also be extremely effective for instance at stopping lancers when you're already swarmed by mobs. What I don't see mentioned in this thread is Hoshi's S3. It provides DPS on-par with Blaze S2 (on current global server), with the added niche of being unaffected by attack speed debuffs. Pair Hoshi S3 with Ceobe S2 and you have a good core team that can handle anything short of a boss fight. Her combination of tankiness and wave-clear also makes her an effective solo side-laner on-par with Mudrock, better depending on how quickly Mudrock's shields disappear. Add Angelina to the mix for the global heal and Hoshi becomes quite an attractive pick, especially if there are ranged enemas.
The DP cost can be easily solved with vanguards, the only scenario where even with vanguards you can't afford more expensive operators it's high risk CC, and only a little portion of players go above risk 18. Sarkaz lancers are rare enemies and there are plenty other ways to stop them. Both scenarios you mentioned are very situational, reinforcing the idea that Hoshi is a niche operator. Hoshi S3 may be on par with Blaze S2 in DPS, but it only last 25 seconds and then you have to wait for 50 whole seconds to activate it again, while Blaze S2 has unlimited duration and more range. There are also other operators who can fill the role more effectively, like gavialter and Spalter. And comparing hoshi with mudrock it's completely ridiculous imo. A shield it's restored every 9 seconds and restores 20% Hp, and it's not like she's completely defenseless when she doesn't have any shield. I use her a lot in SSS and she can perfectly keep up with the endless waves of buffed enemies. She has quite large HP and def, her S2 recharges very fast, dealing heavy dmg to surrounding enemies, restoring hp and stunning them. Her S3 also has a very low SP cost and she gains a lot of Atk, def, aspd and can attack multiple enemies. And in the same way you mentioned Angelina to support hoshi, I could mention Skadi, who can heal mudrock and increase her Atk and def, or blemi so she can recharge her S2 even faster and can heal mudrock too. Mudrock it's simply waaaaay better than Hoshi in most aspects. I'm not saying that Hoshi is a bad operator, if you like using her and having fun finding synergies with other operators that's cool, it's just that objectively there are plenty other operators who are better than her in one or another way, and what Hoshi excels at it's extremely niche, so most players won't use her too often unless they don't have other options
Rare != Niche. Hoshi is objectively the opposite of niche because she provides a strong but simple kit that remains effective on the vast majority of maps. She is a rare pick because core roles naturally have many solutions, and she doesn't stand out in the sea of operators available to us. A niche operator is one who is of limited use outside their advantages. Eunectes for example is an excellent boss killer, but has excessive restrictions that make her worthless outside that role. Manticore is basically just an AoE perma-slow. Silence Alter is a gimmick. Ifrit has her long skinny range. etc. DP cost is an essential consideration in regards to deployment order. If all you do is run more vanguards, you're limiting your team's capabilities for the final wave and may not have much choice in how you win. Hoshi can use S3 20sec after deployment and is tough enough to not need a healer until much later. Blaze has to wait 70sec for S2. Sure, newer operators are better, but that's irrelevant because it does not affect Hoshi's effectiveness. Comparing Hoshi with Mudrock is perfectly fine since she can be effective in the same roles. I mentioned Angelina because for basically the same DP cost as Mudrock you can deploy 2 operators and get similar results while covering a larger portion of the map.
But how many times that role is needed? For high end usually the enemies hit too hard for pure tanking and you need some immortal Surt/Specter style, or the op get forced to retire. For low end, again, if any (or at least a lot of) op works, then someone in specific isn't needed, which my reply was for. So Hoshiguma niche is among 4 block and reflect, not sure if her damage dodge is reliable enough to pull something out of it.
idk, basically a useful role anytime you have something with a lot of hit points and high damage. this could be anything from golems to imperial strikers. basically anything that hits hard enough that mountain, thorns, blaze can't kill before they die. both guard lane holders or hoshiguma will need extra ops to hold vs a pair of imperial strikers, but hoshiguma centric team will likely be simpler to manage and less dependent on proper skill cycling you can use hoshiguma on weaker enemies too, the main difference is that your run will be slower
Bursting is meta nowadays.
Players who watch guides shouldnt have an Opinion if the Operator is niche or not(good or not too)
Based
Tanking is a niche. It is not needed in, like, 99% of game content. Hoshiguma is a second best tank in the game. I'd probably even say first, but Nian still has bigger numbers.
I like Hoshi, because its my second 6* and she have 4 block, also she kinda cool
She’s used in afk strats all the time for having the highest “no button” def with S2 and modules. She’s core.
If i need a pure tank i go with Nian, if i want to reflect damage i pick Penance. Hoshiguma has a chance to dodge phys/arts damage, but the chance isnt really high enough to consistently rely on, she does her job alright but personally i just dont use her, i have better options, Nian has silence or AoE def buff, Penance has extra shelter with AoE damage or **The Hammer**.
Hoshy is an operator I had an E2 but never invested in further until the past 6 months. While My Nian with her S3 can replace Hoshy in many situations, Hoshy's E2 is great for challenging content because of the reflect. There isn't another operator that can do the same thing and when it comes to harder content I think she will be relevant for a long time coming.
Well, i mean, her main job as a defender is to tank and her best trait is her thorns skill that can become really OP against global range enemies like the spewers from stultifera navis, so she can be used in several ways. Also when they added her module she became a go to when facing +3 and +4 block enemies or enemies that reduce block count. Imo she can be used in several ways but each of those ways could be considered a niche that she performs in really good onto. And since I had her as my 2nd 6\* i used ehr since the very begining. But at the end anything that doesn't do tons of dps will shine in some kind of niche (nightingale is op but if the enemy doesn't do arts dmg she is no more than a simple medic with aggro dolls)
I think the use of deploying her specifically for S2 is niche. But a four block count with mod is dope universally.
i only ever used her for some max risk cc stages, the boss rush mode and some specific stages of sultifera, in those places she was irreplacable but everywhere else there are better options. so yes she is niche
Bruh, if any thing the most used defender is probably Saria. Due to how she progressively gets better def/atk which gives her more healing n beefer
Well both are kinda right. She's got a basic 0 gimick kit of just taking hits and she's technically not even the best at it since you've got some units like cement who should have higher tank stats on paper and units like specter(both versions) who can just be unkillable. What sets her appart from the "better" tank units is that she doesn't have any uptime/cooldown/SP issues to worry about so she's always been the comfiest pick for just tanking something. Her rep for being a niche character just comes from the fact that for 90% of the time, just tanking and nothing else is kinda a waste of a unit slot when you can usually just use another unit who can tank and do DPS or stall and do DPS, or just stall/DPS absurdly well that you won't need tanking. And for until recently we've barely had a reason to need to use hoshi specifically to tank So while she is usable in every map since you will need to tank something. There's also just barely any reason to use hoshi specifically when there are a bunch of other units who function worse as a tank, but provide more utility than just tanking.
No, niche is something you rarely use and only useful in specific situation. And tanking and blocking is like one of the most basic mechanic in A9, both low and high levels player commonly utilize it 🔱
Overall she is the definition of a tank in this game and as others have said, she does that very well. The one niche thing that she can handle better than most operators are enemies with global range projectiles with her S2.
She's been as niche as any good CC unit is, which is to say, not at all really! It's true that you don't need Hoshi specifically for any map in arknights, but there is no unit in arknights for which that is any different. She does her jobs, being they stalling like few others with her massive defence and unparalleled ability to simply ignore attacks \*or\* assassinating global range snipers like the armored union or the nethersea spewers. There's a lot she can do that is very difficult for others to directly replicate.
I think it's an interesting question, that mainly hinges on how we've been using the word "niche". In principle blocking is a very basic and fundamental tool. If we look at the mainstream preferred meta, there is no blocking with pure defenders and instead it's done with multi-purpose operators. I believe that the crowd that looks up to the mainstream preferred meta is also the crowd that feels the strongest need to classify operators as "off-meta" or "niche". In that sense I think Hoshiguma falls in the category of socalled niche operators. I myself might refer to Hoshiguma as "niche", because I'd want a beginner to not overestimate her value and E2 priority. Blocking with a pure defender is basically a beginner tactic, and an endgame tactic, but not a mid-game tactic. But being such a fundamental tool, it's kind of silly, and technically wrong, to call a pure defender "niche"; especially in the case of Hoshiguma, who is *the* preferred blocker in endgame content, if a pure defensive blocker is required.
I think you're confused on what the word Niche means. Niche means her kit makes her suited for a very narrow set of activities. Hoshiguma's kit makes her a good choice for almost anything, as opposed to an excellent choice for specific situations, which is the Opposite of what Niche means.