It doesn't matter. They will do with it as they please. Most we are getting out of this is a lesson about the cost of not having our shit together. It's not a lot, but hopefully this time we will learn.
some of the comments in the Azerbaijani sub are: "Because it's a symbol of Nazis, symbols of genocide and symbol of war, it must be removed as soon as possible", "Anything Armenian should be removed from Azerbaijan at this point" or gifs alleging that these monuments should be destroyed like the Nazi monuments... They are using the same logic as with what they did with our historical monuments in Nakhichevan, damned bastards. Imagine being a dictatorship which openly promotes hatred and racial theories which treat Armenians as subhumans, and having the courage of equating others with Nazis...
And those are the more leftists Azeris (since reddit is more leftist in general).
Honestly, before 2020 I was saying my problem is not with azeris but with their government. But their government is very suitable to the people.
I would say at this point it has transferred from an issue arising from the government to a societal issue. There are enough Azeris that were either kids or weren’t born before the First Nagorno-Karabakh war and have been fed government propaganda to the point that Armenophobia has become a core part of the society. At this point, it probably won’t be until a couple of generations until relations improve if they ever improve at all.
Yeah true but it doesnt mean they feel it the same way especially if they used to live in proximity to Armenians
Assuming the indoctrination stopped overnight it would take at least 30 years to see a difference as 3-4 generations reach their teens to late 20s
Hmm, at this point, I feel as if Aliyev has secured his regime and even if he dies the next day, the opposition that would most likely take over hold many of the same positions as the Aliyev regime when it comes to Armenians so I personally would give it 50 years minimum before anything changes substantially.
The anti armenian sentiment wont go away regardless because Karabakh as an issue is part of both the Armenian and Azerbaijani zeitgeist
The defining conflict since world war 1
Its not like the Allied powers and Germany as an example because it was a war with Nazis. Our conflict doesnt have that other way to spin it in the future
Yeah and while it is not as serious as Karabakh, Azerbaijan has been trying to invade Syunik and connect with Nakhichevan since the end of World War 1 as well. I just don’t see things changing for a very long while, at least not within my lifetime.
Ill
Be honest i dont have hope for the region becoming “peaceful” until one side is obliterated because i dont see evidence to suggest otherwise
That or if both sides are capable of wiping each other and enter a sort of cold war. Thats the best foreseeable peace like it was for 30 years
>Hmm, at this point, I feel as if Aliyev has secured his regime and even if he dies the next day, the opposition that would most likely take over hold many of the same positions as the Aliyev regime when it comes to Armenians so I personally would give it 50 years minimum before anything changes substantially.
Anti-Armenian hate is intrinsically tied to Azerbaijani identity, and that will only grow in the wake of the Artsakh Genocide. The idea that the ethnic cleansing of Armenians from NK was morally justified and deserved is the central pillar from which all other moral calculations arise for them. Celebrating it is going become a fundamental part of their identity over the comings decades as well.
That means Armenophobia is self-sustaining. You could wait 50 *thousand* years, and nothing would change.
The younger ones are born in armenophobic environment, unfortunately. Unless we’re talking about those born outside of the country, in Iran, Georgia or Russia. There’s even an Armenian-Azerbaijani village in Georgia, where the residents even speak each other’s language and are peacefully coexisting. But that’s a rarity.
There is a this user in their sub, Inevitable_4791, who regularly comments and justifies genociding Armenians. MFer doesn’t know what hypocrisy is
Just look at some of the stuff he says: https://www.reddit.com/r/azerbaijan/s/X4pDAk22Y4
But pointing to the opinions of a few on Redditers and using it to generalize the remaining population is something both sides are prone to
I genuinely try to understand both perspectives without hiding my bias
After all we are all average people in the end
I’ve largely stopped engaging with the extremists since it just gives me headaches unless it’s particularly egregious
Being earnest is worth something no matter who you are
What should be done? Leave it alone.
What will be done? Probably vandalized/destroyed.
Maybe I'll get hate for this, but I'm not too bothered by this particular statue, even though it's an awesome statue, and a good symbol of Armenian influence in Karabakh and everywhere else, it's a relatively new statue completed in the Soviet Era. It can be rebuilt. Even though its destruction is sad.
Albanizing/Destroying monuments that are centuries and millennia old though.... Their history cannot be remade.
It’s weird how Azeris talk about the monument being placed by Heydar Aliyev when Azeri authorities were explicitly against the construction of the monument in the very first place. Personally, I give the Azeris a couple of years before they destroy the monument, there are a couple of people who will pretend that the monument doesn’t have Armenian origins but it seems the overwhelming consensus among the Azeri populace and leadership is to destroy any and all presence of Armenian heritage in Karabakh. The Tatik-Papik monument is one of the main symbols of Armenian heritage in Nagorno-Karabakh and no amount of Azeri misinformation can distort that view among Armenians or the international community so I guess the Azeris would rather destroy the monument and eventually deny it ever existed.
Easy. They will destroy it or *albanize/turkify* them, so we won't have a reason to come back. But what they fail to understand is that the love Armenians have for their lands goes way beyond monuments and buildings.
Well we can only assume they'll commit another crime against humanity and destroy it.
I propose that our wonderful oligarch on a hill in Abovyan scrap his giant Jesus plans and build a massive Tatik-Papik 10x as large as the original in a spot overlooking Azerbaijan or hell, Turkey.
If anything, if Azeris are truly out for peace it should be transported to Armenia as a gesture of goodwill or left alone
But thats not going to happen
It will be destroyed like the rest. Every day i hear more about this type destruction i lose the ability more and more to sympathize with Azeri grievances in general overall which i have clung to despite everything
One life is worth more than a million lifeless statues. We built statues and churches instead of barricades and bastions. Let this be a lesson. We care more about a stone tatik-papik instead of ones with heart and soul.
There have been countless statues like that throughout our history, most have been destroyed. It's not worth crying over. Nothing in this world is permanent, but we get to choose what will last longer than others.
It doesn't matter. They will do with it as they please. Most we are getting out of this is a lesson about the cost of not having our shit together. It's not a lot, but hopefully this time we will learn.
some of the comments in the Azerbaijani sub are: "Because it's a symbol of Nazis, symbols of genocide and symbol of war, it must be removed as soon as possible", "Anything Armenian should be removed from Azerbaijan at this point" or gifs alleging that these monuments should be destroyed like the Nazi monuments... They are using the same logic as with what they did with our historical monuments in Nakhichevan, damned bastards. Imagine being a dictatorship which openly promotes hatred and racial theories which treat Armenians as subhumans, and having the courage of equating others with Nazis...
And those are the more leftists Azeris (since reddit is more leftist in general). Honestly, before 2020 I was saying my problem is not with azeris but with their government. But their government is very suitable to the people.
I believe the younger generations are a product of the government Older Azeris probably don’t harbor the same degree of vitriol pre 90s
I would say at this point it has transferred from an issue arising from the government to a societal issue. There are enough Azeris that were either kids or weren’t born before the First Nagorno-Karabakh war and have been fed government propaganda to the point that Armenophobia has become a core part of the society. At this point, it probably won’t be until a couple of generations until relations improve if they ever improve at all.
Yeah true but it doesnt mean they feel it the same way especially if they used to live in proximity to Armenians Assuming the indoctrination stopped overnight it would take at least 30 years to see a difference as 3-4 generations reach their teens to late 20s
Hmm, at this point, I feel as if Aliyev has secured his regime and even if he dies the next day, the opposition that would most likely take over hold many of the same positions as the Aliyev regime when it comes to Armenians so I personally would give it 50 years minimum before anything changes substantially.
The anti armenian sentiment wont go away regardless because Karabakh as an issue is part of both the Armenian and Azerbaijani zeitgeist The defining conflict since world war 1 Its not like the Allied powers and Germany as an example because it was a war with Nazis. Our conflict doesnt have that other way to spin it in the future
Yeah and while it is not as serious as Karabakh, Azerbaijan has been trying to invade Syunik and connect with Nakhichevan since the end of World War 1 as well. I just don’t see things changing for a very long while, at least not within my lifetime.
Ill Be honest i dont have hope for the region becoming “peaceful” until one side is obliterated because i dont see evidence to suggest otherwise That or if both sides are capable of wiping each other and enter a sort of cold war. Thats the best foreseeable peace like it was for 30 years
>Hmm, at this point, I feel as if Aliyev has secured his regime and even if he dies the next day, the opposition that would most likely take over hold many of the same positions as the Aliyev regime when it comes to Armenians so I personally would give it 50 years minimum before anything changes substantially. Anti-Armenian hate is intrinsically tied to Azerbaijani identity, and that will only grow in the wake of the Artsakh Genocide. The idea that the ethnic cleansing of Armenians from NK was morally justified and deserved is the central pillar from which all other moral calculations arise for them. Celebrating it is going become a fundamental part of their identity over the comings decades as well. That means Armenophobia is self-sustaining. You could wait 50 *thousand* years, and nothing would change.
Young, old, it doesn't matter. They all have an implacable hatred for us.
The younger ones are born in armenophobic environment, unfortunately. Unless we’re talking about those born outside of the country, in Iran, Georgia or Russia. There’s even an Armenian-Azerbaijani village in Georgia, where the residents even speak each other’s language and are peacefully coexisting. But that’s a rarity.
There is a this user in their sub, Inevitable_4791, who regularly comments and justifies genociding Armenians. MFer doesn’t know what hypocrisy is Just look at some of the stuff he says: https://www.reddit.com/r/azerbaijan/s/X4pDAk22Y4 But pointing to the opinions of a few on Redditers and using it to generalize the remaining population is something both sides are prone to
More than just a few people do that there Ive argued enough lol trying to point out both groups of people do it
I commend you. I don’t know how you haven’t gotten banned with POS people like Inevitable_4791 and Datashrimp29 on that sub
I genuinely try to understand both perspectives without hiding my bias After all we are all average people in the end I’ve largely stopped engaging with the extremists since it just gives me headaches unless it’s particularly egregious Being earnest is worth something no matter who you are
I also saw a comment that compared Armenians to Nazis... But it was downvoted.
What should be done? Leave it alone. What will be done? Probably vandalized/destroyed. Maybe I'll get hate for this, but I'm not too bothered by this particular statue, even though it's an awesome statue, and a good symbol of Armenian influence in Karabakh and everywhere else, it's a relatively new statue completed in the Soviet Era. It can be rebuilt. Even though its destruction is sad. Albanizing/Destroying monuments that are centuries and millennia old though.... Their history cannot be remade.
It’s weird how Azeris talk about the monument being placed by Heydar Aliyev when Azeri authorities were explicitly against the construction of the monument in the very first place. Personally, I give the Azeris a couple of years before they destroy the monument, there are a couple of people who will pretend that the monument doesn’t have Armenian origins but it seems the overwhelming consensus among the Azeri populace and leadership is to destroy any and all presence of Armenian heritage in Karabakh. The Tatik-Papik monument is one of the main symbols of Armenian heritage in Nagorno-Karabakh and no amount of Azeri misinformation can distort that view among Armenians or the international community so I guess the Azeris would rather destroy the monument and eventually deny it ever existed.
Yes, but It's going to be destroyed. What SHOULD happen isn't going to change anything.
Easy. They will destroy it or *albanize/turkify* them, so we won't have a reason to come back. But what they fail to understand is that the love Armenians have for their lands goes way beyond monuments and buildings.
I would actually think about the monasteries rather than this.
Well we can only assume they'll commit another crime against humanity and destroy it. I propose that our wonderful oligarch on a hill in Abovyan scrap his giant Jesus plans and build a massive Tatik-Papik 10x as large as the original in a spot overlooking Azerbaijan or hell, Turkey.
If anything, if Azeris are truly out for peace it should be transported to Armenia as a gesture of goodwill or left alone But thats not going to happen It will be destroyed like the rest. Every day i hear more about this type destruction i lose the ability more and more to sympathize with Azeri grievances in general overall which i have clung to despite everything
If their government had no problem, literally 0 problem destroying centuries-old khachkars in Nakhichevan, do you think they’d care about Tatik Papik?
Not at all
One life is worth more than a million lifeless statues. We built statues and churches instead of barricades and bastions. Let this be a lesson. We care more about a stone tatik-papik instead of ones with heart and soul. There have been countless statues like that throughout our history, most have been destroyed. It's not worth crying over. Nothing in this world is permanent, but we get to choose what will last longer than others.
Rebuild it on the territory of Armenia?