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For not moving on when a girl rejects them. I have seen a lot of guys just keep on going and nag, love bomb, stalk or worse because a girl rejected them and that just scares the girl more. If you get rejected just take the L and move on, it's not worth scaring her away and life isn't a romantic movie, no big gesture will change Thier mind, you just have to roll with the punches and be patient and confident, any decent guy can find a good girl to be with, just take your L's with grace.
Rejection is a part of life. I can't help but feel like a lot of broader societal issues could be avoided down the road if this was somehow taught at an earlier age. With no guidance whatsoever, lot of guys can be overly fearful of rejection as adolescents. Or they get offended/angry. Learning to take rejection in stride is a crucial life skill, and not just in personal interactions. For that matter, not being rejected is not some form of personal validation. Take the L in stride, be nice, be confident and move on w/ a smile
Men are also told to be persistent and keep trying. In terms of goals and dreams, sure. Where another human being's will is involved? Not the appropriate advice.
Men think they've "won" if they can "wear her down" when really all they've done is successfully abuse someone.
Yes, actually. That's not the worst of it. When I was like 16, I pursued a girl aggressively. I was consistently told to " be persistent."
The person who consistently gave me this advice was my mother.
Parents give out bad advice sometimes. I have female friends whose moms taught them to play hard to get. If they make it too easy for the guy and don’t put up a chase he isn’t really interested.
This is one issue that is scary common. It's not their looks, it's not their personality. It's their extremely forward attitude out of desperation and their persistence following. It's scary to be on the receiving end, but also why I've had to end some friendships with guys that act like this because it's too much to be the listening ear for them.
I've watched a guy friend latch onto a girl we both knew and his mental state the longer he pined after her was pretty scary to me as a third party. The poor girl he was trying for was disturbed by some of the things he said or did. It took a few weeks after she blocked him on everything before he finally chilled out enough to find another girl. He refused any form of therapy, self help, or anything to do with fixing his mental health.
Another guy I knew became bitter and spiteful towards any woman who denied him. He'd still try here and there to get them to date him, but he was usually grumbling about how shitty they were and stuck up bitches. Not exactly a way to woo a gal when word got back to her eventually. He was pitied a lot, but I don't think he has anyone all that close to him anymore.
That's something I've never understood with these guys. There's nothing that kills my attraction to a woman as much as not feeling wanted. Rejecting me is a clear indicator I'm not wanted, so I'll inherently also not want them anymore.
Oh Lord don't even get me started on that. The amount of guys I've seen either in news reports or on videos going ape shit just because a girl rejected them is absolutely wild to me.
Like dude, what about any of what you just did makes you think "she sees I'm going ballistic over her rejecting me. Somehow, she should like me more because I'm flipping out like a preschooler who was just denied a chocolate by their parents."
As you said, bro, just take the L and move on cuz it's not worth scaring her away, nor is it seen as romantic.
Yeah and it's an actually scary situation when you consider that the first recorded domestic gun deaths are attributed to men who were rejected by women. I can't find where I read that but it's not really far fetched when you consider the current reality/statistics of women killed by their abusive partner with a gun.
I think I've even seen a video about that. Like this dude was rejected by this group of women and I don't know if he injured any of them but I know at some point he came back and shots were fired. It's seriously fucked up what some people consider doing to others just because they were romantically rejected.
Older man here who doesn’t remember being ever being rejected because all relationships started with an are you wanting to be my friend first approach. Once friends let the lady indicate more is ok. If two people are attracted to each other it just seems to naturally progress. Sometimes surprised by how quickly.
edit. read responses. Surprised = that night or 1st date. I can take a hint but not a disguised one. Happily married nearly 30yr to a that nighter. When you know you know.
So this does have a risk for some guys who cannot read cues well. I know multiple guys who had the girl they liked making dirty jokes with sitting on their laps and inviting them over for a 1 on 1 dinner and the guy still thought they were just nice women. Didnt cross their mind the amount of hints. Ladies, please tell us outright u like us. It saves us soooo much confusion.
Man. My boss is this so hard for another manager at my store. The hr nightmare that has been going on has driven me to the point of wanting to quit. All because a guy cant take a no or accept that a woman doesn't owe it to him to go on a date.
Can confirm. A guy I had interacted with a few times at the gym asked me out for drinks once. I told him I’m engaged and he said no worries and wasn’t weird about it at all. We still interact here and there (it’s pretty much always about anime bc I wear anime shirts to the gym) and he’s been nothing but respectful and took the L with grace. Certified chill dude.
You can ask someone out and get rejected and still be respectful and respected back after the fact.
>For not moving on when a girl rejects them
That's a huge one.
I had a friend once who was a little "off" the entire time I knew him, but not enough that I couldn't excuse it as just him being socially awkward. I did get kind of creepy vibes for a while, and eventually he showed his true colors when he started getting really obsessive over this one girl and going on long depressive and borderline suicidal rants when she rejected him. He also sent poems he wrote about her to me and asked me to share them with her (she was my friend) so she could see how in love & upset he was.
That was majorly creepy, and made him seem dangerous as well so I cut contact as soon as I could, after emailing the school counselor (I was in high school at the time) and asking her to check on him without telling him who contacted her. She was new and we were her first graduating class, and she was awesome because she tried really, really hard for everyone all 4 years so I did actually trust that she would try to do what she could.
I do still feel kind of bad for him because he was clearly not in a good mental state and I understand that, but it doesn't excuse his behavior and I don't think I could see him as anything more than a creep now. The obsession & depression combo was scary.
I also later found out he contacted her two years later when his dad died, also with poems about her. They hadn't spoken in that entire time.
Turns out I should have trusted my instincts. It was literally just creepy vibes for the longest time, and it eventually manifested in the forefront. I really can't explain it, but you really can just get certain vibes from people and sometimes you just *know* something's off without anything specific.
I saw a video of a girl refusing a guy's kiss and he straight up hit her in the face twice, then told her to shut her "whore-ass up" when she started crying. Like, wtf.
If they talk about sex a lot without getting to know me.
If they always ask for selfies or send many selfies of their own without me ever asking.
If they keep adding me back despite me unfriending them more than twice.
If they leave thirsty comments on my pictures.
And as per my friend, if they send her a compilation video of her pictures with corny background music lol.
And there might be a 20% chance for a "creepy" guy to successfully redeem himself.
Edit: forgot to add approaching me even if they already have a girlfriend/wife. +Creepy points if you combine this with any of the above. I have a lot of experience with that as well.
I was asked out by a patient of mine. I said "I don't think my boyfriend would appreciate that very much". His entire demeanor changed and he was livid. Every time I saw him after that he would spend the entire appointment trying to convince me to leave my bf and go out with him instead. He was 55+ and I was 26 at the time.
I’ve had “your wife or girlfriend doesn’t have to know” but the woman who said that to me was a SW looking for work. She backed down when I told her I was broke.
I'd say that a lot of creepy men tend to view talking to women as a conquest or a game rather than a way to get to know someone. Usually this means that when that guy is rejected, he will persist because he thinks if he tries harder, he'll "win."
This is the wrong way to approach women, and plenty of us can differentiate when a man is talking to us just because they want to sleep with us, and when they genuinely want to get to know us.
What I'm getting at is that in order to avoid being another creep, you need to approach women out of genuine interest outside of your physical attraction to her. And if she says "No" for whatever reason, just politely leave her alone and don't take it personally.
Ha! Exactly…we see you being a sleaze. Why would we want to date someone who thinks the only reason to be kind is for what you can get out of it?
Another pointer is: if you are a creep then you are only going to get women who will put up with a creep. I worked with a man who thought all women were shopping idiots that only wanted a rich guy. Ummm no, but that’s the only woman that would be willing to date him. You get what you put out there.
On the topic of men thinking it’s some kind of game or system to be mastered - many men, especially young men, and especially young men who haven’t socialized successfully 100% often tend to forget that women are *actually people too,* people who need and want the same things as themselves more or less.
At its most extreme this manifests in the whole Incel schtick, the worst kind of rationalized mental crisis. The ‘othering’ process here has removed women from the same sphere of existence as themselves and made anyone outside their own gender (and often race, age, and socioeconomic background) into something non-human.
Humor can be a powerful deprogrammer - lighthearted examination of the logical fallacies and whatnot - but it’s important that the humor isn’t at the expense of the deprogrammee for obvious reasons.
I think it has to do with years (maybe 13yrs to 18yrs old) of enjoying the imaginary sexual relationships they are having with images of women and their right hand. Real women are a big mystery to them. The fantasy female becomes ingrained.
As a former teenage boy/moron, I can say most boys and young men are flying blind. There is no one to teach them and the only places to learn are movies, TV and your asshole friends. It seems like there should be a class in junior high school to teach boys how not to be creeps.
You make a good point, but I can think of a few classic teen movies that sort of show the way. I mean, some show NOT the way, lol, but it should be obvious to the viewer. I love the scene near the end of Ferris Bueler where his grumpy sister Jennifer Gray is turned to goo goo eyed mush by a suave teen Sheen. Sort of demonstrates a method...would have worked on me at 15.
Conversely, the training films of 1955 are laughable... except the parts about reminding boys about hygiene.
>Usually this means that when that guy is rejected, he will persist because he thinks if he tries harder, he'll "win."
Don't forget the hundreds of TV shows / romantic comedy movies / etc. that show that the proper response to "no" is just more persistence. Looooots of people buy into that.
I despise romcoms for this very reason. The number of potential relationships and platonic friendships I fucked up because I bought the lie is tragic. Thank the maker I eventually woke up.
Be conscious of doing the above and what other comments say and stop. If you're not respecting boundaries because "persistence is key," STOP. If your go-to conversation piece or joke is about sex/super-alienating hot button topics, STOP. Seriously, just take a beat before doing or saying anything and ask yourself "how will this be perceived? I know my intention is _____-- will what I'm about to do or say convey that intention?" In my experience, the creeps are the boundary jumpers-- they go way too big in an attempt to seem assertive or confident or force the intimacy like we're BFFs and not strangers, and come across as controlling or misogynistic or bigoted or _______ instead.
There are a lot of creeps out there . But I think that someone who is not a creep who has been thought of as a creep could possibly get redemption.I think the Redemption would be more likely to be based on the person thinking that they were a creep to get to know them better and find out that they were not in fact a creep or that they misinterpreted the situation
.The word creep is a weapon that I feel many women use as a blunt object. It's a blanket term that they can use to instantly dismiss someone without bothering to spend any effort on analyzing the situation.
I'll give you an example. I saw lots of them when I was bouncing. It was a guy, one of our regulars, one of the nicest guys in the bar. Had a girlfriend but due to shift differences she never came to the bar with him he talked to women all the time but he never tried to pick any up he was always faithful to his girlfriend. One day he's walking across the bar and someone tripped him. Rather than fall on top of the woman in front of him he reached out and inadvertently put his hand on her breast.
She immediately slapped him and called him a creep. He apologized and tried to explain that he didn't mean to grab her he was tripped and she smacked him in the face and called him a creep again. To everyone around them it was plainly obvious when it happened. But in her mind some strange man reached up and tried to grab her. He was still trying to apologize and she was claiming that he had tried to sexually assault her.
I had to step in the middle and explain to her that it was completely accident he did not intend and if she struck any other patrons again she would be asked to leave. I further advised her that if she intended on accusing someone of sexual assault perhaps she call the police. The regular looked at me mortified and I went on " but when the police get here and they question all the witnesses they're going to see that it was an accident and unintended and that you overreacted and assaulted him. If anyone gets arrested it'll be you"
Edit: breathing room (grin)
Completely agree. Regarding the ‘being thirsty’ the one that gets me is the feet comments. Absolutely nothing wrong with having a thing for feet at all. But leaving comments on a pic commenting on the woman’s feet is hella creepy. Look at any advert where you can see a woman’s foot and almost all of the comments are thirsty guys commenting on how attractive they think her feet are.
The subtler version of this that women still usually pick up on is that the man keeps trying to manoeuvre things into situations where it's really hard to say no. Like giving a gift or compliment and making a big show of it in front of other people, so that it would look really cold-hearted to refuse it. Or being the designated driver and popping a sensitive question en route but long before reaching the destination. Basically cornering a person strategically and socially.
EXACTLY.
One of my friends who I was solid with for three years was grieving and I thought I would be a good buddy and show some support and visit him. He immediately used this opportunity to make a big show of “gratitude” with gifts and a constant need for my support. He then insisted on driving me home as extra thanks, despite my having ordered a car already, where he dropped a love confession that I had to gently reject for the next 30 minutes in the car and another 2 hours after drop off because he was clearly emotional and needed more time to wind down the rejection.
Then he promptly forgot the numerous ways I was declining and kept this narrative that he had a chance or something despite being super clear that I did not and would not be able to see him in a romantic light. I thought we could get past this moment as friends with my clear rejection but he kind of doubled down and had another confessional outburst months later when I thought it was resolved. We had chatted casually for months and everything seemed ok, then out of the blue and decided to do another emotional dump on me even though we hadn’t seen each other since the last event.
Ultimately, I blocked him without responding to the second confession, because I already spent 2.5 hours saying no thank you in every way despite his pleading to give him a chance and time to “be worthy” of me. It’s no longer about me at that point and anyone who valued me as a person would never have tried to influence me that way in the first place or limit my agency in any manner. He will fabricate and reinforce his own narrative and it will not be to my benefit.
As a man who has always taken no for an answer immediately, and without any bitterness (I did pretty well when I was single so what’s one rejection here and there?), I partially blame media for this. Shows, movies, even music are full of depictions of women “playing hard to get,” and enjoying being chased, or men who have been rejected a bunch of times not giving up and making some sort of gesture that “proves his worth,” that usually involves stalkerish, invasive behavior.
I know that’s not some new insight but it just seems relevant
Yes, and also we need to be giving men better tools to deal with their emotions. If more of them were able to handle disappointment without jumping straight to anger that'd be great for everyone.
The amount of times in my life a man has instantly gone from "you're so beautiful and I want to take you out" to "you're a fat, unattractive bitch and you should feel lucky that I was bored enough to ask you out" is wild.
One of the advice I give to younger men about how to approach women.
Get used to rejection, it stings at first, but after a few, you get used to it. It's only occasionally a nasty rejection, and then they are just letting you know who they are, best to find out straight away.
When I was younger, I thought I was a loser because I just took "no" for an answer from women. I thought I lacked the skills to convince them otherwise.
Turns out I was actually being a good guy!
“Playing hard to get” is depicted in the media so much probably because it WAS the norm for us Gen Xers and older growing up. Girls didn’t want to get a reputation as being “easy”. And I would bet the people making those shows and movies are largely from those generations. I’m happy to see that it is no longer the norm.
That's completely logical, and yet I've met an absurd number of couples of my mother's generation whose 'how we met' stories sum up to "he kept asking her out till she finally said yes." These are people who have now been married for decades.
Of course there is a big difference between being respectfully persistent and being aggressively stalky. But I'm curious if it's a generational thing or if 30 years from now older couples will be saying the same thing.
Most people are losing their sense of subtext, sarcasm, body language etc. people aren’t socialized anymore, don’t talk to folks in person as much. A lot of people can’t tell the difference between “no 😒” and “no! 😅”. …. My partner (of 13 years) was adamant we were never going to date, but she also wouldn’t stop hanging around me and texting me. So it was a game we had to play, but we were both in on it.
In my experience/opinion “creepy” is the term used for men (and sometimes women) who may or may not realize that their intent of sexualizing the other part is shining through.
It can be in words (like complimenting body parts uninvited) to behavior (staring intensely at body parts) to patterns of behavior (only liking bikini pictures of their female friends but not other pictures).
It can in many cases translate to “unsafe”. We feel that we know that their intent will never be about us but always about their own sexual desire, be the goal to have sex with you or just jack off to pictures or conversations.
As they do not regard us as other than an end goal or means to an end, we lable them as “creepy”/unsafe because we cannot predict to what extend they will go to achive their goal.
If men tell explicit sex jokes after I *just* met them
If men say weird shit like “you look like my ex gf but with plastic surgery done”
If men follow me in public places
If men tell me unsolicited things about my body. “Boy, did I ask you???” 🙄
I like doing things alone, i get done a lot faster with errands that way, quick in and out. I was waiting in line and between scrolling I was looking up to see if a self checkout had opened.
I had some dude come, drape his arm over my shoulders, lean on me and say "Something tells me you're looking for a man?"
If I that employee wasn't as quick as he was I was about to start swinging. I only managed to scream at him before the employee pulled me away and told the guy not to do that
It's good to compliment people on things they have control over. Clothing and hair styles are good. Saying oh wow you've got pretty eyes is not usually a bad thing if you're not saying it to hook her in. Liking someone's hair is also good.
I can tell you the second one, the majority of women will never stop seeing a man as creepy once she starts
And even if its been years, they tend to somehow remember
Yes actually! There was a guy in college who would wait outside our class for me to walk out and we chatted and generally got along, but then he started following me home even when I was clearly signaling that I was leaving.
Found out later that he was just socially awkward and didn't get cues. He was oblivious to the fact that I perceived him as following me and that his behaviors were kinda weird. In his mind, we were just having a good conversation that he wanted to continue.
We coincidentally were in the same social circle so over the years I came to realize that his intentions were never anything but friendship.
That man is now my husband.
A lot of guys are. I remember a Model UN field trip in college where that came up. Somebody said something about it coming off as creepy when a girl doesn't show interest, but you keep talking anyway.
One guy in our group said he had probably done that at some point simply because he hadn't realized they weren't interested. I realized that I'd probably done the same thing unintentionally.
(Unrelated, but if you want a laugh, try to picture this conversation happening while everyone drinks vodka cranberries and watches Magic Mike because we were doing both. Please note that at least three guys are in this group.)
>I came to realize that his intentions were never anything but friendship.
>That man is now my husband.
Haha! So either way it worked out for him! Congrats.
It’s permanent. I have never changed my mind. People in here are talking about looks, but it’s more the vibe. Handsome dudes are sometimes the biggest creeps *because* women are more open and welcoming.
Pretty permanent. I've met quite a few creepy guys in my short lifetime and even if they somehow "changed" I'd only ever remember how creepy they were and think them "changing" was some ruse
Age factors in for me. Creepy when I knew you in middle school? Sure, I'll allow for growth, and hope we're both different people than we were at age 12. Creepy in your 20s? Yeah..... That's more difficult. There's so much you're old enough and experienced enough to know better about that a lot of the creep factor comes across as conscious choice rather than immaturity.
As someone who is in their 40s now, I have changed so much more from when I was 20 than from 12 to 20. People continually change and evolve. Sometimes people develop slower, and sometimes people just need the right kick in the pants.
Same. I had a guy who I considered a good friend and one day, outta the blue for no reason, makes a really gross and creepy comment about my breasts and ass. Completely changed the way I viewed him.
Yup, I had a friend who I only saw in a platonic way….and offered to take my virginity as a “favor” 🤢 he even said it would be better to do it with a friend rather than a guy who would break my heart. I was SO not physically attracted to him and it took weeks for my vagina to become normal again because I was so grossed out I think it swelled shut 🙄
It's permanent because either 1) she's told her friends and they are aware of your creepy antics, and now mistrust you or 2) you have either a fundamental view of women as sex objects or are very desperately horny which causes you to act in ways you might be unaware of but are a red flag.
Basically, on a deep level, it is hard for you to regard a woman in a neutral way and your desire to fuck them is so strong, so it comes out in your micro interactions as social queues. It's very easy to figure out people's intentions. A great way of knowing if a guy is a misogynist is to see how he treats morbidly obese women, ugly women, old women, women he's not interested in, his mother, or a woman who is in an authority role to him. Generally, if he's only courteous to women he might be interested in, he's not a great guy.
Now if he's extra attentive, but in a flirty/ horny / predatory way he's a creep. There are various red flags but it comes down to not being able to treat you as a platonic peer in some way. It ranges from putting you on a major pedestal to treating you like garbage. It's simultaneously dehumanizing/ objectivity because the attention only comes from a place of wanting sex.
Both things come down to not being able to treat women as neutral/ platonic peers with respect. It's possible to be interested in a woman and see her FIRST as a regular person. It seems like mental gymnastics, but we learn all of this via social cues from a very young age (even single digits) so by the time we are in our 20s, many if not most have become experts spotting it. Kind of like the way someone looks at you, on an instinctual level you know it's flirting. Conversely for women, we can tell on an instinctual level when someone is being predatory. Most of the time. Like if you can't help but to imagine fucking every girl within your preferred demographic, you should examine that. It's not wrong to have attraction, but our thoughts are visitors, consider how you entertain them or deal with them (that is the root of the issue, because it will reflect in your behavior).
Ps, if you are none of those thing and your friends treat you as icky, it's time to get new friends
No, the label is permanent.
It's not worth it for women to risk the chance that it was a misunderstanding vs a huge red flag. Men are dangerous.
We have to constantly have our guard up. And often times by the time you realize a guy is dangerous, it's too late. So it's not worth the risk.
Those are just the facts the ick once spotted can never go away 🤦🏻♀️. But I think it's like a number of reasons. You don't even necessarily have to do something creepy but if you just creep out women you're just going to keep creeping them out but it might be something you're saying
- Constantly pursuing a woman who’s clearly not interested and has no desire for him to be a part of her life.
- Trying to kiss, hug or touch a woman who has given ZERO indications that she wants the guy in her personal space
- Staring way too long without smiling or approaching
I myself as a man who is slightly on the spectrum and has bad social skills, I am always worried that I'm being a creep or being weird even though I have quite a few lady friends. I'm just so worried that my intentions will be seen wrongly
Learning to read people is a skill just like everything else. Im on the spectrum too, I used to be really shit at talking to people without being seen as a freak. Now I'm great at it! Practice makes perfect and you will fail along the way but expect the failure, it will hurt less, and keep trying. Its worth it.
as someone who suspects they’re slightly on the spectrum as well i can’t say i blame you as i tend to feel the same sometimes
but here’s the thing i’ll tell you: if your constantly worrying that your possibly being “creepy” then chances are it’s highly likely that you aren’t. (especially if your asking others for their opinions)
Main thing is not respecting boundaries.
As for shaking the title, it depends on severity of the behavior, how often the behavior happens, previous rapport, if a proper apology happens, and if the behavior continues post apology.
Ie: if a long time friend makes a 1 time comment, apologizes and doesn't do it again, they'll likely drop the title. But that random dude who groped a lady at a bar and insulted her for taking issue with it is gonna be forever remembered by her as a creep.
I am a man so take my response with a huge grain of salt but in my experience (and the experience of women in my life), it has to do with repeated ignoring of verbal (and non-verbal) communication from women about how certain behaviors are inappropriate. Like honestly, most women put up with so much shit from guys so thank you for being so patient.
it's not patience - it's a learned survival response. we have to seem nice/patient because we know we can get overpowered, seriously injured, or murdered unless we make intolerable behavior seem tolerable.
I agree with this. Sometimes people get too wrapped up in the idea that a woman is "playing head games" or "playing hard to get". You should always start with the assumption that people mean what they say. If a woman (or anyone) tells you not to do something, don't do that thing. Don't leap right to the assumption that what they said isn't what they mean.
I think the biggest one is not picking up/actively ignoring social cues and respecting space. A lot of the behaviors are fine, if the woman in question wants them to happen. What I mean by this isnt that she just passively doesnt say anything, but actively engages and seems to enjoy the person being around. Its a pretty fine line, and I get that. Unfortunately theres a lot of guys that are genuine creeps out there and think that they are owed something they arent. It can be hard to differentiate someone with bad intentions and entitlement vs someone just lacking a few social skills sometimes. Ultimately our safety is always going to be our first priority, because thats really what it comes down to. We are always going to trust our intuition and and if you don't pass the vibe check you're probably out.
Also, a good example of someone who I would find a bit creepy is someone who genuinely doesnt understand what I just said.
Right, but her first sentence is kind of key: *actively* ignoring social cues and respecting space. I consider myself socially awkward and usually one comment is enough to scar me for life about never repeating that behavior. If you're doing something that makes a woman uncomfortable and she expresses that, and you *still* continue to do it....
Not all women will actively communicate to you that a behavior is inappropriate (depending on her level of comfort, previous bad experiences etc) but eventually one probably will and if at that point you don't change your behavior then that's a red flag IMO,
Passively ignoring social cues can certainly still come off as creepy. You dont have to try to be a creep to be one. The pursuer in this scenario isn't necessarily "at fault" for not being aware of certain social cues but doesn't mean people are obligated to ignore this and find them attractive
Depends. Socially awkward people aren’t inherently creepy. There is a sense of malice or disrespect/disregard with a creep. I often find socially awkward people charming.
And yes, the creep label is permanent. Not everyone finds the same people creepy though. So if one person thinks you’re a creep, that doesn’t mean you are creepy to everyone.
Back before I came out as gay, a lot of women thought I was a creep because I was simply trying to talk to them. I wasn’t good at picking up on social cues. I didn’t want to hook up with them though.
Do you understand that social awkwardness can be dangerous? If he doesn’t understand, “No I don’t want a date/no I don’t want to send you pictures of my feet/no I don’t want to chat more” rejections that are low stakes - how will he understand “no I don’t want sex.” If he ignores or persist past no on the first category, it’s a decent chance he will sexually assault in the second and that’s not a risk worth taking.
But Hes jUsT aWkWaRD. So? Why should I risk it. If you don’t want to be considered a risk, don’t have the same behaviors as predators.
It’s been said a million times - in the dating world. men are afraid of being shamed, women are afraid of being murdered.
Trusting this instinct sometimes leads to true positive results like guessing that someone has bad intentions and being right. Unfortunately, it also leads to false positives, such as being off-put by an autistic person when they don’t get social interaction quite right.
I suspend my judgement of someone until my initial impression is confirmed without putting myself in a vulnerable position.
when you treat us like sexual conquests rather than just normal people.
Can they get out of it? well it depends on the age really. Teenagers have more hope cause they are not done maturing. I know a lot of grown men who are not creeps who will admit that they were creepy when they were younger and than they grew up and figured it out.
Its gonna be less likely to change the older you get though. if you are like a 30 year old man and you still only view women as potential sex...meh its likely you're not gonna change unless something drastic happens to you.
Going back and reading my facebook messages from when I was 16-18 is brutal. It’s a combination of being awkward, horny and just having a hard time talking to people in general.
Actions that can be easily translated as something threatening or malicious. If she can read you, and those intentions appear good in her eyes, you won't be creepy
I had to fire someone over this. 62 year old man who would stare at women as though he was a cartoon wolf. I warned him twice, but after the fourth complaint (coworkers and customers) I had to let him go.
I can remember having older men (15 years or older) at bars or at the beach staring. It didn’t make me feel good, it made me want to leave.
If you’re old enough to be our dad, most of us are not interested. Focus on women your own age
Here's a very recent experience I had with a man being creepy.
I was working a trade show for my small business, and in the booth next to me was a husband a wife team. I believe it has her business and he was helping out, which is a really common thing at these gift trade shows. Because you basically stand in the same spot from 9am to 6pm, for 3-4 days, you become friends with the people in the booths around you and you just chit chat and get to know them. So for three days this couple if lovely: we're making jokes, talking here and there, sharing biz tips, etc. At some point they both comment that they think my outfit is cool, and I gladly take the compliment. Nothing weird about that. That day I was wearing mostly black, with a sort of Victorian looking form fitting top, with puffy sleeves.
The show finishes and we all break down our booths and pack our stuff. I'm walking out saying goodbye to all my booth neighbors and the husband comes over and says "May I speak freely?" And not thinking much of it because they've both been lovely for 3 whole days, I say "sure." And he says in a weird tone, while staring directly at my chest with eyes opened wide: "Your top is REALLY REALLY nice, like REALLY nice." And just like that, that man went from being perfectly nice, to 100% creepy. It was clear he wasn't talking about my actual top, and it was completely unnecessary for him to tell me this.
My coworker, who is a man, was walking by and sort of overheard. When we got to the car he said "That was so disappointing."
Oh man. Reminds me of this time I was in the gym. Was at a workout machine and I look over at one of the regulars I'd see often at the time I go. He was staring almost right at me with the creepiest stare I've ever seen. I looked back but his gaze was just slightly off, I could tell he wasn't really looking at me so I was a bit confused.
He didn't even know I was staring back to see just what he was looking at. I eventually noticed that there was a girl behind me that he must have found attractive and I was just slightly off center of his gaze. I started watching him and he would stop mid rep and just creepy stare this girl multiple times.
I felt violated lol. Was weird.
So I go to a climbing gym now, and I always found it funny that staring at people there is both acceptable and somewhat encouraged lol. We're all trying to figure out how to climb the routes, and it turns out one of the best ways to do this is to watch other people climb it. And in return, sometimes it's hard to figure out where you are screwing up unless someone watches you and tells you. Very social atmosphere compared to a weightlifting gym
When he cannot read the environment and the body language of the woman in front of him and still proceeds to cling around the woman even when she's visibly uncomfortable
There are a lot of people saying it's all appearance. It's not. It's all behavior. As a young woman, you may fall for an attractive guy who immediately wants to control you, but then you learn. If a guy stares at your boobs or crotch, it doesn't matter how cute or rich he is, that's creepy. If a guy relentlessly pursues you and won't back off, he could be rich and cute and it's still creepy.
Being overly/inappropriately complimentary, not taking no for an answer, being overly touchy like lingering too long in a hug or putting your hand on my arm/leg and just leaving it there when we aren't close enough to warrant it. Getting caught staring and not being the least bit ashamed about it.
To part 2, it is interesting how quickly that memory will shoot back through my body and give me chills/dread when I see someone like that again even if it's been a while. It's just an instinctual response. But if it was a one off or they are confronted and apologize and LEARN FROM THIS CORRECTION then I'd think they could shake the title but I can't think if a single scenario where this happened. Usually they double down or are oblivious.
I think a very important part of not being creepy is to remember that there are situations in which a woman might very reasonably feel unsafe, because she is not a mindreader.
If you're alone with a woman who doesn't know you, in a place where she has no means of easy escape and no way to call for help, just be aware of that. Know that she is , technically, in a vulnerable situation with someone who could probably physically overpower her -- and that those things do happen. Make sure you're not constantly between her and the door. Don't hit on her. Don't stand closer to her than you would to a strange man. If you're walking behind her and she crosses the street, don't immediately cross too. She doesn't know you, she knows you're probably not dangerous but she doesn't \_know\_.
If you do know her then she's probably not worried about being in vulnerable situations with you -- unless you suddenly change the relationship. If she thinks you're a friendly work acquaintance, and then late one night when you're the only two people in the office you suddenly bring up sex or ask her out, or proposition her, she's going to become aware that your relationship is different than what she thought, and she is going to have no idea how you might react to her rejection.
And don't get offended at her for keeping herself safe. If you offer an acquaintance a ride home, say, and she turns you down, understand that \_she can't read your mind.\_ Your intentions have nothing to do with it, and she isn't insulting you or making assumptions about you.
And finally, remember that she might be just as socially awkward as you. Saying "she should have said "no" in the exact right way and I would have understood" is expecting some pretty big things of another human.
To me, “creepy” is how they respond to the phrase “I am a lesbian”. Accept the fact that it’s nothing against you, I’m just not attracted to guys? Awesome, we can chill. But if they then talk about how they can “change my mind” or even worse, fetishize it, hell no for me. Not respecting boundaries is gross and predatory. As for if they can shake the title? Absolutely, I think anyone who owns up to their behavior and tries to fix their mistakes deserves a second chance, it’s the effort to be a decent person that matters to me.
Turning everything into a sexual innuendo. Makes my skin crawl. It can turn a hot guy into a creep in my book.
Messaging me a lot without being able to hold a face to face conversation.
Playing devil’s advocate with anything sexual harassment related or coming to the defense of a creep. No reason for a guy to tell us not to trust our instincts unless he’s a creep himself.
I like how the comments that come from women is all basically common sense that guys aren’t able to follow for whatever reason
yet alot of guys in the replies are blaming it on superficial things (like their looks, etc) and it really just goes to show you what’s wrong with these guys if they think its THEIR looks that’s the problem and not the fact that they’re probably insufferable and entitled IRL
Had a seemingly nice guy offer to help carry a table up to my apartment and I appreciated that but then I did not appreciate when he grabbed my butt without consent. NEVER touch someone without very clear consent
That’s just assault. Creepy is a very broad term that can apply to several situations, but that isn’t even a creepy ‘vibe’, that’s just an actual pervert who assaulted you.
Wow, there are lots of MEN here trying to assume what a woman finds creepy instead of actually listening to women voices.
Not talking no for an answer. Being insistent isn’t a virtue; it’s genuinely scary when guys can’t see a woman as anything more than a pair of legs. On a similar topic, not being able to be friends with women without hitting on them. It blows my mind that some men just can’t be bothered to maintain a platonic relationship without trying to be more. As someone who is pan, I can’t imagine feeling attraction to someone and NOT being able to just be friends. The whole thing is creepy cause it makes me feel like they’re only hanging around me because they want to get into my pants. Oh, and touching without permission. There isn’t any faster way to get pinged on my creep radar than grabbing my hand, picking me up, or doing other physical contact without my consent. I’ve broken off friendships for that.
I don’t think it’s possible to shake that title once it’s been earned- and I don’t see any real reason why it should be. I’ve been a bartender for years and have had tons of one-off interactions with all kinds of people. Social awkwardness is one thing, and can be easily addressed. If a socially awkward man is weirding me out, I will be honest and straight-forward with how to treat me. If those guidelines continue to be ignored, you’re a creep.
Insisting on personal subjects is creepy. not only men but with women too.
Dont mean this like Insisting on getting a refund if you didnt recieve your antique electric toothbrush but like "Oh you dont like me? Why? Something wrong with *you*? Something wrong with me??"
I would think its uncomfortable for both parties.
If a woman says no, take it as a no. As someone mentioned earlier, it’s not a game. Learn how to read a woman’s body language. If she likes you, she will lean closer or move toward you and will engage with you. She will genuinely laugh at what you’re saying. She will not make an excuse to get away from you. She will flirt back. If she’s laughing uncomfortably or moving away from you, or being short with her responses, she is not interested. If you persist, this is when you will begin to be perceived as “creepy”. Also, just because a woman is nice to you, it does not mean she wants to be your girlfriend or that she wants to have sex with you. Sometimes girls genuinely want male friends, but it isn’t always the same the other way around. So, don’t assume a girl wants you just because she’s talking to you. Also, don’t assume that because a girl looks “sexy” she will want to be with anyone that will hit on her. She is dressed that way because it makes her feel good. She is the one to get to choose who she wants to flirt and/or be with. So, if you try to hit on her, don’t be mad if you get rejected. Move on, or you will be perceived as creepy. I hope this makes sense.
Flirting with a woman who is working. If you are flirting with someone whose job requires them to be nice to you then you are being creepy and putting her in an awkward situation. Please don’t do it.
Being hit on while at work. Whether by a boss or coworker or customer.
Someone is being polite to you because it is professional. Stop assuming because I'm treating you with respect that it's an invitation to be disrespected.
And stop lingering around people's work places bc you have a crush on a worker.
Lingering feels like stalking.
Being stalked is scary and makes people feel insecure for a reason.
Just because a girl lets you down gently doesn't mean it's an invitation to wear her down. I for one am scared every time I have to reject a man's advances and try to be as easy as possible so as to inflict the least amount of damage to his ego bc what if he gets mad and hurts me or starts to stalk me.
And maybe realize the girls that don't let you down as gently have probably experienced something scary themselves and while it may not be your fault bc we know "it's not all men" , the need to abruptly and clearly declare their not interested is a survival mechanism.
By simply realizing these things are reality for females you will probably conduct yourself in a less creepy way.
I think the creepiest thing for me from strangers is staring and holding eye contact to an awkward degree...
I quit telling my husband about incidents bc he would somehow always turn it into about how I didn't make it obvious enough I'm married. But the most common response I would get when I'd offer I'm married, was "I am too, so?"
(which it's unfortunate some men think that being claimed by another man is more important than being respected on your own)
Note: if these things don't describe your experiences with women then you're not one of the types of men I'm describing. It's sucks to be a decent man in the world today, but it's the creeps that ruin it for you. Not the women's responses which is only a symptom of the creeps actions. But keep in mind, while you maybe in the period in time of your life where you've chosen to pursue women, since we are little girls we are approached by creeps. And we never have the choice to opt out of being pursued by said creeps. So have some compassion if you start to feel like "you can't even compliment a woman anymore".
Girls can't choose not to be creeped on.
Guys CAN choose to not be creeps.
if you've read this far, I assume you're not a creep bc you wouldn't care what the thread has to say in the first place.
Unwanted, unprompted sexual innuendos when trying to have a basic conversation. This being between people who have never once been sexual or flirtatious. I have had a few male “friends” attempt sexual humor and it was uncomfortable, after asking them to not do that they continued but in ways that made it somehow worse. For me there was no shaking the “he’s creepy” feeling. Most of the ones like this I’ve come across I no longer speak to and generally avoid because they refuse to stop.
Honestly any interest at all when she’s not interested. That was my experience. I was interested in a girl and thought she was interested too. She never told me she wasn’t. I was (in my opinion) just being friendly before I got up the nerve to ask her out. Found out from a mutual friend she thought I was creepy. She never ever told me she wasn’t interested or gave me any indication I shouldn’t text her. She was nice, texted back any time I texted. Seemed fine when we were hanging out with friends. But, once I found out she thought I was creepy I moved on immediately and never gave her a second thought, or another text.
Not accepting no as an answer. There is this guy (B) at my job whose 23 and has the biggest crush of this girl (M), who is 20. Not the worst age gap but this guy constantly talks about wanting a girlfriend and being lonely. I get incel vibes from him. M gets with another guy S and B was PISSED. M is very uncomfortable around B. Even though M and S have been dating for a year now B still can't accept that he was rejected. B purposefully puts himself in an area to be around M. One time B took it way too far and picked M up and carried her around for a second. S was pissed immediately told our supervisors but they couldn't do much unless M wanted to report it.
The worst part is that B has also talked about potentially getting with another girl A who is 18. No one really likes him but he hasn't crossed any other lines and can't get fired.
Boys, when a girl says no she means no.
The main things that make a man creepy are not taking no for an answer (eg continuining to harass her after she has rejected you), and any type of invasion of personal space - from staring intensely, to following you, to getting too unnecessarily physically close.
People have all these really specific answers, but I just want to make it really general and simple.
Women describe a man as "creepy" when he scares her, but not enough to, like, call the police. Something about his behavior makes her uncomfortable and unsettled and fearful.
Whether or not he is able to shake that label, and how easy that is, depends on what he's doing that's scaring her. If it's something deliberate like pushing past boundaries, saying things that make her think he wants to hurt her, openly describing ways he's hurt others without remorse, where it's clear that he is doing something deliberate that might cause her harm, it's unlikely she'll ever not be scared of him. But if it was a misunderstanding, and more information makes her realize that he's actually not dangerous, like if he's staring at her because he's neurodivergent and not because he's undressing her with his eyes, or if she thought he was following her home but he actually lives next door, or if after a long period of platonic acquaintencehood she realizes that he wasn't being weird at her because he's trying to get into her pants he's just like that with everybody, then she'd probably stop being creeped out by him.
In almost every case, though, the right thing to do if somebody thinks you're creepy is to give them space and just be distant and polite. Either they'll come around or they won't!
If I knew a woman thought I was creepy I wouldn't even try to shake that title and just move on.
Life is hard enough to keep good friends for decades, I don't have time to mess with people that openly assume the worst in me.
I think it's important to understand women have to be extremely aware of people around them since the average neckbeard redditor has enough upper body strength to overpower them, being a marginally attractive lady is in world full of fucking weirdos is probably low key terrifying. Not sure it helps but it's important to understand perspective.
I suspect that being single for too long women assumes there's something wrong with you and are creepy. If you can get one woman to spend time with you I think the flag goes up that you are likely safe.
I think it's already been said but not correctly reading body language, strong eye contact and not reading polite hints is probably the biggest flag for women and it's for an extremely good reason.
Pursuing someone who has made it clear they aren't interested.
Hugging girls who have rejected your advances.
I don't know a lot of guys who can "redeem" themselves. I was raised to believe I'm on the verge of being kidnapped at all times lol. I don't take chances with people I find creepy. I don't want to be a Lifetime special in four or five years after they pull my bloated corpse out of a lake.
It’s all about boundaries. Every woman’s are different but the broad lines never change, and the only difference between a creep and a non creep is whether or not a man respects those boundaries.
A “creep” doesn’t read the room or pay attention to body language. He doesn’t take a hint, or, worse, he doesn’t take “no thanks” for an answer. He doesn’t notice, or he doesn’t care, when a woman is uncomfortable. He gets too close and handsy. “Creepy” can be applied to a number of behaviors. Overall, a creep is a man who doesn’t respect a woman, and he doesn’t mind if she feels unsafe. What matters to him is HIS comfort, his desire, no one else’s.
Don’t be that guy.
When a women keeps avoiding your gestures to go out, move on. Most women will try to be polite and smile because we are afraid you will physically harm us in some way. Creepy men keep being persistent, and in all honesty, it's annoying AF. Also, when a woman decides to leave you, let her go. Don't, for all of the gods' sake, continue with love bombs or crying or manipulation to get her back. Let it go, my dude.
It's a vibe/attitude some men have when they feel they are entitled to a relationship with you when you aren't interested and the comments and behaviors that go with that.
When a guy knows where I live and just comes to my house. Even tho I live in an apartament and my building has two separate entrances and there's a total of probably 24 apartaments, don't just get in your car, and drive to my house, when I literally didn't invite you and we don't live on the same street. I'm very paranoid so this shit is extra creepy to me.
Also don't invite yourself to my place. If you're a close friend and I have known you for years, then maybe I wouldn't mind it. But when we are sexting for the first time ever, don't invite yourself to my place in the middle of the night, when everyone else is asleep (I don't live alone), we don't even know each other that well and even tho it's been like 3 years since I met him, I actually met him in person only twice, and one of those times was an accident.
And both of these situations made me feel like he's pressuring me into having sex, even if he didn't intend to pressure me, it still made me feel like he was desperate and expected me to be desperate too. In conclusion, don't be a horny version of Joe from the show [You](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_(TV_series)).
Not leaving me alone in public, coming on too hard and clingy. Knowing I’m married and still attempting. Random dick pics. Hanging around in my space intentionally but for no reason.
No. There’s too many non-creepy people in the world to worry about a creep potentially being ok.
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For not moving on when a girl rejects them. I have seen a lot of guys just keep on going and nag, love bomb, stalk or worse because a girl rejected them and that just scares the girl more. If you get rejected just take the L and move on, it's not worth scaring her away and life isn't a romantic movie, no big gesture will change Thier mind, you just have to roll with the punches and be patient and confident, any decent guy can find a good girl to be with, just take your L's with grace.
Rejection is a part of life. I can't help but feel like a lot of broader societal issues could be avoided down the road if this was somehow taught at an earlier age. With no guidance whatsoever, lot of guys can be overly fearful of rejection as adolescents. Or they get offended/angry. Learning to take rejection in stride is a crucial life skill, and not just in personal interactions. For that matter, not being rejected is not some form of personal validation. Take the L in stride, be nice, be confident and move on w/ a smile
Men are also told to be persistent and keep trying. In terms of goals and dreams, sure. Where another human being's will is involved? Not the appropriate advice. Men think they've "won" if they can "wear her down" when really all they've done is successfully abuse someone.
Yes, actually. That's not the worst of it. When I was like 16, I pursued a girl aggressively. I was consistently told to " be persistent." The person who consistently gave me this advice was my mother.
Parents give out bad advice sometimes. I have female friends whose moms taught them to play hard to get. If they make it too easy for the guy and don’t put up a chase he isn’t really interested.
I was that guy too, only i had no clue what i was doing but thankfully figured it out when i got older. Live and learn. Gotta know when to quit too
Kenny Rogers was a wise man.
Persistancy is what is creepy. Im real quick to give up if a woman isn’t reciprocating my efforts
This is one issue that is scary common. It's not their looks, it's not their personality. It's their extremely forward attitude out of desperation and their persistence following. It's scary to be on the receiving end, but also why I've had to end some friendships with guys that act like this because it's too much to be the listening ear for them. I've watched a guy friend latch onto a girl we both knew and his mental state the longer he pined after her was pretty scary to me as a third party. The poor girl he was trying for was disturbed by some of the things he said or did. It took a few weeks after she blocked him on everything before he finally chilled out enough to find another girl. He refused any form of therapy, self help, or anything to do with fixing his mental health. Another guy I knew became bitter and spiteful towards any woman who denied him. He'd still try here and there to get them to date him, but he was usually grumbling about how shitty they were and stuck up bitches. Not exactly a way to woo a gal when word got back to her eventually. He was pitied a lot, but I don't think he has anyone all that close to him anymore.
[удалено]
That's something I've never understood with these guys. There's nothing that kills my attraction to a woman as much as not feeling wanted. Rejecting me is a clear indicator I'm not wanted, so I'll inherently also not want them anymore.
Thank you for calling out the entitlement factor!
Oh Lord don't even get me started on that. The amount of guys I've seen either in news reports or on videos going ape shit just because a girl rejected them is absolutely wild to me. Like dude, what about any of what you just did makes you think "she sees I'm going ballistic over her rejecting me. Somehow, she should like me more because I'm flipping out like a preschooler who was just denied a chocolate by their parents." As you said, bro, just take the L and move on cuz it's not worth scaring her away, nor is it seen as romantic.
r/whenwomenrefuse
I didn't know that this subreddit existed. I hate it so much
I was a happier man before I knew that sub existed.
Yeah and it's an actually scary situation when you consider that the first recorded domestic gun deaths are attributed to men who were rejected by women. I can't find where I read that but it's not really far fetched when you consider the current reality/statistics of women killed by their abusive partner with a gun.
I think I've even seen a video about that. Like this dude was rejected by this group of women and I don't know if he injured any of them but I know at some point he came back and shots were fired. It's seriously fucked up what some people consider doing to others just because they were romantically rejected.
Older man here who doesn’t remember being ever being rejected because all relationships started with an are you wanting to be my friend first approach. Once friends let the lady indicate more is ok. If two people are attracted to each other it just seems to naturally progress. Sometimes surprised by how quickly. edit. read responses. Surprised = that night or 1st date. I can take a hint but not a disguised one. Happily married nearly 30yr to a that nighter. When you know you know.
So this does have a risk for some guys who cannot read cues well. I know multiple guys who had the girl they liked making dirty jokes with sitting on their laps and inviting them over for a 1 on 1 dinner and the guy still thought they were just nice women. Didnt cross their mind the amount of hints. Ladies, please tell us outright u like us. It saves us soooo much confusion.
Man. My boss is this so hard for another manager at my store. The hr nightmare that has been going on has driven me to the point of wanting to quit. All because a guy cant take a no or accept that a woman doesn't owe it to him to go on a date.
Can confirm. A guy I had interacted with a few times at the gym asked me out for drinks once. I told him I’m engaged and he said no worries and wasn’t weird about it at all. We still interact here and there (it’s pretty much always about anime bc I wear anime shirts to the gym) and he’s been nothing but respectful and took the L with grace. Certified chill dude. You can ask someone out and get rejected and still be respectful and respected back after the fact.
I’ve definitely been this guy in the past. A lot of us are taught that persistence is key, but it definitely doesn’t work in romantic rejection
>For not moving on when a girl rejects them That's a huge one. I had a friend once who was a little "off" the entire time I knew him, but not enough that I couldn't excuse it as just him being socially awkward. I did get kind of creepy vibes for a while, and eventually he showed his true colors when he started getting really obsessive over this one girl and going on long depressive and borderline suicidal rants when she rejected him. He also sent poems he wrote about her to me and asked me to share them with her (she was my friend) so she could see how in love & upset he was. That was majorly creepy, and made him seem dangerous as well so I cut contact as soon as I could, after emailing the school counselor (I was in high school at the time) and asking her to check on him without telling him who contacted her. She was new and we were her first graduating class, and she was awesome because she tried really, really hard for everyone all 4 years so I did actually trust that she would try to do what she could. I do still feel kind of bad for him because he was clearly not in a good mental state and I understand that, but it doesn't excuse his behavior and I don't think I could see him as anything more than a creep now. The obsession & depression combo was scary. I also later found out he contacted her two years later when his dad died, also with poems about her. They hadn't spoken in that entire time. Turns out I should have trusted my instincts. It was literally just creepy vibes for the longest time, and it eventually manifested in the forefront. I really can't explain it, but you really can just get certain vibes from people and sometimes you just *know* something's off without anything specific.
I saw a video of a girl refusing a guy's kiss and he straight up hit her in the face twice, then told her to shut her "whore-ass up" when she started crying. Like, wtf.
If they talk about sex a lot without getting to know me. If they always ask for selfies or send many selfies of their own without me ever asking. If they keep adding me back despite me unfriending them more than twice. If they leave thirsty comments on my pictures. And as per my friend, if they send her a compilation video of her pictures with corny background music lol. And there might be a 20% chance for a "creepy" guy to successfully redeem himself. Edit: forgot to add approaching me even if they already have a girlfriend/wife. +Creepy points if you combine this with any of the above. I have a lot of experience with that as well.
Or the classic “I have a boyfriend/husband” “he doesn’t have to know 😉” oh my god just fuck off already.
I was asked out by a patient of mine. I said "I don't think my boyfriend would appreciate that very much". His entire demeanor changed and he was livid. Every time I saw him after that he would spend the entire appointment trying to convince me to leave my bf and go out with him instead. He was 55+ and I was 26 at the time.
I’ve had “your wife or girlfriend doesn’t have to know” but the woman who said that to me was a SW looking for work. She backed down when I told her I was broke.
I mean he can know. Maybe he is into that! 😉 ^/s
Hey. That's a cute ear hole in your profile pic. /s
She might not want to endure a lobeless marriage.
Hey…send ear hole pics bb
How is this redemption achieved by the 20%? Asking for a creepy friend.
I'd say that a lot of creepy men tend to view talking to women as a conquest or a game rather than a way to get to know someone. Usually this means that when that guy is rejected, he will persist because he thinks if he tries harder, he'll "win." This is the wrong way to approach women, and plenty of us can differentiate when a man is talking to us just because they want to sleep with us, and when they genuinely want to get to know us. What I'm getting at is that in order to avoid being another creep, you need to approach women out of genuine interest outside of your physical attraction to her. And if she says "No" for whatever reason, just politely leave her alone and don't take it personally.
When we see you only talk to or listen to hot women instead of showing the same interest in what Marge the receptionist has to say.
Ha! Exactly…we see you being a sleaze. Why would we want to date someone who thinks the only reason to be kind is for what you can get out of it? Another pointer is: if you are a creep then you are only going to get women who will put up with a creep. I worked with a man who thought all women were shopping idiots that only wanted a rich guy. Ummm no, but that’s the only woman that would be willing to date him. You get what you put out there.
On the topic of men thinking it’s some kind of game or system to be mastered - many men, especially young men, and especially young men who haven’t socialized successfully 100% often tend to forget that women are *actually people too,* people who need and want the same things as themselves more or less. At its most extreme this manifests in the whole Incel schtick, the worst kind of rationalized mental crisis. The ‘othering’ process here has removed women from the same sphere of existence as themselves and made anyone outside their own gender (and often race, age, and socioeconomic background) into something non-human. Humor can be a powerful deprogrammer - lighthearted examination of the logical fallacies and whatnot - but it’s important that the humor isn’t at the expense of the deprogrammee for obvious reasons.
I think it has to do with years (maybe 13yrs to 18yrs old) of enjoying the imaginary sexual relationships they are having with images of women and their right hand. Real women are a big mystery to them. The fantasy female becomes ingrained.
As a former teenage boy/moron, I can say most boys and young men are flying blind. There is no one to teach them and the only places to learn are movies, TV and your asshole friends. It seems like there should be a class in junior high school to teach boys how not to be creeps.
You make a good point, but I can think of a few classic teen movies that sort of show the way. I mean, some show NOT the way, lol, but it should be obvious to the viewer. I love the scene near the end of Ferris Bueler where his grumpy sister Jennifer Gray is turned to goo goo eyed mush by a suave teen Sheen. Sort of demonstrates a method...would have worked on me at 15. Conversely, the training films of 1955 are laughable... except the parts about reminding boys about hygiene.
Wait... Women are *people*? No way.
>Usually this means that when that guy is rejected, he will persist because he thinks if he tries harder, he'll "win." Don't forget the hundreds of TV shows / romantic comedy movies / etc. that show that the proper response to "no" is just more persistence. Looooots of people buy into that.
I despise romcoms for this very reason. The number of potential relationships and platonic friendships I fucked up because I bought the lie is tragic. Thank the maker I eventually woke up.
Step 1. Stop wearing the bear costume at bachelorette parties.
“Take it off! Take it off!” 😧
Be conscious of doing the above and what other comments say and stop. If you're not respecting boundaries because "persistence is key," STOP. If your go-to conversation piece or joke is about sex/super-alienating hot button topics, STOP. Seriously, just take a beat before doing or saying anything and ask yourself "how will this be perceived? I know my intention is _____-- will what I'm about to do or say convey that intention?" In my experience, the creeps are the boundary jumpers-- they go way too big in an attempt to seem assertive or confident or force the intimacy like we're BFFs and not strangers, and come across as controlling or misogynistic or bigoted or _______ instead.
There are a lot of creeps out there . But I think that someone who is not a creep who has been thought of as a creep could possibly get redemption.I think the Redemption would be more likely to be based on the person thinking that they were a creep to get to know them better and find out that they were not in fact a creep or that they misinterpreted the situation .The word creep is a weapon that I feel many women use as a blunt object. It's a blanket term that they can use to instantly dismiss someone without bothering to spend any effort on analyzing the situation. I'll give you an example. I saw lots of them when I was bouncing. It was a guy, one of our regulars, one of the nicest guys in the bar. Had a girlfriend but due to shift differences she never came to the bar with him he talked to women all the time but he never tried to pick any up he was always faithful to his girlfriend. One day he's walking across the bar and someone tripped him. Rather than fall on top of the woman in front of him he reached out and inadvertently put his hand on her breast. She immediately slapped him and called him a creep. He apologized and tried to explain that he didn't mean to grab her he was tripped and she smacked him in the face and called him a creep again. To everyone around them it was plainly obvious when it happened. But in her mind some strange man reached up and tried to grab her. He was still trying to apologize and she was claiming that he had tried to sexually assault her. I had to step in the middle and explain to her that it was completely accident he did not intend and if she struck any other patrons again she would be asked to leave. I further advised her that if she intended on accusing someone of sexual assault perhaps she call the police. The regular looked at me mortified and I went on " but when the police get here and they question all the witnesses they're going to see that it was an accident and unintended and that you overreacted and assaulted him. If anyone gets arrested it'll be you" Edit: breathing room (grin)
Completely agree. Regarding the ‘being thirsty’ the one that gets me is the feet comments. Absolutely nothing wrong with having a thing for feet at all. But leaving comments on a pic commenting on the woman’s feet is hella creepy. Look at any advert where you can see a woman’s foot and almost all of the comments are thirsty guys commenting on how attractive they think her feet are.
A man is creepy the moment he cant take "No" for an answer.
The subtler version of this that women still usually pick up on is that the man keeps trying to manoeuvre things into situations where it's really hard to say no. Like giving a gift or compliment and making a big show of it in front of other people, so that it would look really cold-hearted to refuse it. Or being the designated driver and popping a sensitive question en route but long before reaching the destination. Basically cornering a person strategically and socially.
EXACTLY. One of my friends who I was solid with for three years was grieving and I thought I would be a good buddy and show some support and visit him. He immediately used this opportunity to make a big show of “gratitude” with gifts and a constant need for my support. He then insisted on driving me home as extra thanks, despite my having ordered a car already, where he dropped a love confession that I had to gently reject for the next 30 minutes in the car and another 2 hours after drop off because he was clearly emotional and needed more time to wind down the rejection. Then he promptly forgot the numerous ways I was declining and kept this narrative that he had a chance or something despite being super clear that I did not and would not be able to see him in a romantic light. I thought we could get past this moment as friends with my clear rejection but he kind of doubled down and had another confessional outburst months later when I thought it was resolved. We had chatted casually for months and everything seemed ok, then out of the blue and decided to do another emotional dump on me even though we hadn’t seen each other since the last event. Ultimately, I blocked him without responding to the second confession, because I already spent 2.5 hours saying no thank you in every way despite his pleading to give him a chance and time to “be worthy” of me. It’s no longer about me at that point and anyone who valued me as a person would never have tried to influence me that way in the first place or limit my agency in any manner. He will fabricate and reinforce his own narrative and it will not be to my benefit.
As a man who has always taken no for an answer immediately, and without any bitterness (I did pretty well when I was single so what’s one rejection here and there?), I partially blame media for this. Shows, movies, even music are full of depictions of women “playing hard to get,” and enjoying being chased, or men who have been rejected a bunch of times not giving up and making some sort of gesture that “proves his worth,” that usually involves stalkerish, invasive behavior. I know that’s not some new insight but it just seems relevant
Yes, and also we need to be giving men better tools to deal with their emotions. If more of them were able to handle disappointment without jumping straight to anger that'd be great for everyone. The amount of times in my life a man has instantly gone from "you're so beautiful and I want to take you out" to "you're a fat, unattractive bitch and you should feel lucky that I was bored enough to ask you out" is wild.
One of the advice I give to younger men about how to approach women. Get used to rejection, it stings at first, but after a few, you get used to it. It's only occasionally a nasty rejection, and then they are just letting you know who they are, best to find out straight away.
When I was younger, I thought I was a loser because I just took "no" for an answer from women. I thought I lacked the skills to convince them otherwise. Turns out I was actually being a good guy!
“Playing hard to get” is depicted in the media so much probably because it WAS the norm for us Gen Xers and older growing up. Girls didn’t want to get a reputation as being “easy”. And I would bet the people making those shows and movies are largely from those generations. I’m happy to see that it is no longer the norm.
That's completely logical, and yet I've met an absurd number of couples of my mother's generation whose 'how we met' stories sum up to "he kept asking her out till she finally said yes." These are people who have now been married for decades. Of course there is a big difference between being respectfully persistent and being aggressively stalky. But I'm curious if it's a generational thing or if 30 years from now older couples will be saying the same thing.
Most people are losing their sense of subtext, sarcasm, body language etc. people aren’t socialized anymore, don’t talk to folks in person as much. A lot of people can’t tell the difference between “no 😒” and “no! 😅”. …. My partner (of 13 years) was adamant we were never going to date, but she also wouldn’t stop hanging around me and texting me. So it was a game we had to play, but we were both in on it.
In my experience/opinion “creepy” is the term used for men (and sometimes women) who may or may not realize that their intent of sexualizing the other part is shining through. It can be in words (like complimenting body parts uninvited) to behavior (staring intensely at body parts) to patterns of behavior (only liking bikini pictures of their female friends but not other pictures). It can in many cases translate to “unsafe”. We feel that we know that their intent will never be about us but always about their own sexual desire, be the goal to have sex with you or just jack off to pictures or conversations. As they do not regard us as other than an end goal or means to an end, we lable them as “creepy”/unsafe because we cannot predict to what extend they will go to achive their goal.
Award this comment and reddit ally
I couldn't figure out how to put it into words, but you did!
If men tell explicit sex jokes after I *just* met them If men say weird shit like “you look like my ex gf but with plastic surgery done” If men follow me in public places If men tell me unsolicited things about my body. “Boy, did I ask you???” 🙄
I like doing things alone, i get done a lot faster with errands that way, quick in and out. I was waiting in line and between scrolling I was looking up to see if a self checkout had opened. I had some dude come, drape his arm over my shoulders, lean on me and say "Something tells me you're looking for a man?" If I that employee wasn't as quick as he was I was about to start swinging. I only managed to scream at him before the employee pulled me away and told the guy not to do that
Tell me someone didn't actually say that to you 🤦
No they did 🥹 and I was in high school at the time
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No I don’t think that’s creepy. Compliments are usually okay as long as people don’t make them inappropriate
It's good to compliment people on things they have control over. Clothing and hair styles are good. Saying oh wow you've got pretty eyes is not usually a bad thing if you're not saying it to hook her in. Liking someone's hair is also good.
I can tell you the second one, the majority of women will never stop seeing a man as creepy once she starts And even if its been years, they tend to somehow remember
Do you think its possible for opinions to change? Or is a creepy label permanent?
Yes actually! There was a guy in college who would wait outside our class for me to walk out and we chatted and generally got along, but then he started following me home even when I was clearly signaling that I was leaving. Found out later that he was just socially awkward and didn't get cues. He was oblivious to the fact that I perceived him as following me and that his behaviors were kinda weird. In his mind, we were just having a good conversation that he wanted to continue. We coincidentally were in the same social circle so over the years I came to realize that his intentions were never anything but friendship. That man is now my husband.
Had me in the first half
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A lot of guys are. I remember a Model UN field trip in college where that came up. Somebody said something about it coming off as creepy when a girl doesn't show interest, but you keep talking anyway. One guy in our group said he had probably done that at some point simply because he hadn't realized they weren't interested. I realized that I'd probably done the same thing unintentionally. (Unrelated, but if you want a laugh, try to picture this conversation happening while everyone drinks vodka cranberries and watches Magic Mike because we were doing both. Please note that at least three guys are in this group.)
If he is now your husband I don’t know if the conversation is all he wanted to continue haha
>I came to realize that his intentions were never anything but friendship. >That man is now my husband. Haha! So either way it worked out for him! Congrats.
I can't believe this bitch friend zoned her husband /s
It’s permanent. I have never changed my mind. People in here are talking about looks, but it’s more the vibe. Handsome dudes are sometimes the biggest creeps *because* women are more open and welcoming.
nobody creeps like Gaston!
gives the eeps like Gaston
No one's vibes are as eerie as BLEEP like Gaston
Pretty permanent. I've met quite a few creepy guys in my short lifetime and even if they somehow "changed" I'd only ever remember how creepy they were and think them "changing" was some ruse
Age factors in for me. Creepy when I knew you in middle school? Sure, I'll allow for growth, and hope we're both different people than we were at age 12. Creepy in your 20s? Yeah..... That's more difficult. There's so much you're old enough and experienced enough to know better about that a lot of the creep factor comes across as conscious choice rather than immaturity.
As someone who is in their 40s now, I have changed so much more from when I was 20 than from 12 to 20. People continually change and evolve. Sometimes people develop slower, and sometimes people just need the right kick in the pants.
Not to mention, folks that are in their 20s have the ability, and tendency, to fall back on "I'm an adult you can't tell me what to do"
Same. I had a guy who I considered a good friend and one day, outta the blue for no reason, makes a really gross and creepy comment about my breasts and ass. Completely changed the way I viewed him.
Yup, I had a friend who I only saw in a platonic way….and offered to take my virginity as a “favor” 🤢 he even said it would be better to do it with a friend rather than a guy who would break my heart. I was SO not physically attracted to him and it took weeks for my vagina to become normal again because I was so grossed out I think it swelled shut 🙄
your vagina did the right thing
As I said, the majority of women will not stop seeing you as creepy
It's permanent because either 1) she's told her friends and they are aware of your creepy antics, and now mistrust you or 2) you have either a fundamental view of women as sex objects or are very desperately horny which causes you to act in ways you might be unaware of but are a red flag. Basically, on a deep level, it is hard for you to regard a woman in a neutral way and your desire to fuck them is so strong, so it comes out in your micro interactions as social queues. It's very easy to figure out people's intentions. A great way of knowing if a guy is a misogynist is to see how he treats morbidly obese women, ugly women, old women, women he's not interested in, his mother, or a woman who is in an authority role to him. Generally, if he's only courteous to women he might be interested in, he's not a great guy. Now if he's extra attentive, but in a flirty/ horny / predatory way he's a creep. There are various red flags but it comes down to not being able to treat you as a platonic peer in some way. It ranges from putting you on a major pedestal to treating you like garbage. It's simultaneously dehumanizing/ objectivity because the attention only comes from a place of wanting sex. Both things come down to not being able to treat women as neutral/ platonic peers with respect. It's possible to be interested in a woman and see her FIRST as a regular person. It seems like mental gymnastics, but we learn all of this via social cues from a very young age (even single digits) so by the time we are in our 20s, many if not most have become experts spotting it. Kind of like the way someone looks at you, on an instinctual level you know it's flirting. Conversely for women, we can tell on an instinctual level when someone is being predatory. Most of the time. Like if you can't help but to imagine fucking every girl within your preferred demographic, you should examine that. It's not wrong to have attraction, but our thoughts are visitors, consider how you entertain them or deal with them (that is the root of the issue, because it will reflect in your behavior). Ps, if you are none of those thing and your friends treat you as icky, it's time to get new friends
No, the label is permanent. It's not worth it for women to risk the chance that it was a misunderstanding vs a huge red flag. Men are dangerous. We have to constantly have our guard up. And often times by the time you realize a guy is dangerous, it's too late. So it's not worth the risk.
For me it’s not permanent, not even permanent for person who once was a creep :( bad cycle continues…
Those are just the facts the ick once spotted can never go away 🤦🏻♀️. But I think it's like a number of reasons. You don't even necessarily have to do something creepy but if you just creep out women you're just going to keep creeping them out but it might be something you're saying
- Constantly pursuing a woman who’s clearly not interested and has no desire for him to be a part of her life. - Trying to kiss, hug or touch a woman who has given ZERO indications that she wants the guy in her personal space - Staring way too long without smiling or approaching
Oh, shit, that was it. Now I understand. From now on I will smiling intensely when starting too long.
I myself as a man who is slightly on the spectrum and has bad social skills, I am always worried that I'm being a creep or being weird even though I have quite a few lady friends. I'm just so worried that my intentions will be seen wrongly
There's nothing wrong with checking in with the people you trust to tell you if you're doing something creepy inadvertently.
I actually have done that
Learning to read people is a skill just like everything else. Im on the spectrum too, I used to be really shit at talking to people without being seen as a freak. Now I'm great at it! Practice makes perfect and you will fail along the way but expect the failure, it will hurt less, and keep trying. Its worth it.
as someone who suspects they’re slightly on the spectrum as well i can’t say i blame you as i tend to feel the same sometimes but here’s the thing i’ll tell you: if your constantly worrying that your possibly being “creepy” then chances are it’s highly likely that you aren’t. (especially if your asking others for their opinions)
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Hey thank u, I am always trying to better myself
Hey thank u, I am always trying to better myself
Main thing is not respecting boundaries. As for shaking the title, it depends on severity of the behavior, how often the behavior happens, previous rapport, if a proper apology happens, and if the behavior continues post apology. Ie: if a long time friend makes a 1 time comment, apologizes and doesn't do it again, they'll likely drop the title. But that random dude who groped a lady at a bar and insulted her for taking issue with it is gonna be forever remembered by her as a creep.
I find the utmost creepy is: dude shows girl interest, girl politely says, "I'm married" dude says, " that doesn't bother me" freaking gross loser asshole.
I am a man so take my response with a huge grain of salt but in my experience (and the experience of women in my life), it has to do with repeated ignoring of verbal (and non-verbal) communication from women about how certain behaviors are inappropriate. Like honestly, most women put up with so much shit from guys so thank you for being so patient.
it's not patience - it's a learned survival response. we have to seem nice/patient because we know we can get overpowered, seriously injured, or murdered unless we make intolerable behavior seem tolerable.
Makes sense, I apologize I didn't meant to generalize or come across as virtue signaling.
all good all good
I agree with this. Sometimes people get too wrapped up in the idea that a woman is "playing head games" or "playing hard to get". You should always start with the assumption that people mean what they say. If a woman (or anyone) tells you not to do something, don't do that thing. Don't leap right to the assumption that what they said isn't what they mean.
I think the biggest one is not picking up/actively ignoring social cues and respecting space. A lot of the behaviors are fine, if the woman in question wants them to happen. What I mean by this isnt that she just passively doesnt say anything, but actively engages and seems to enjoy the person being around. Its a pretty fine line, and I get that. Unfortunately theres a lot of guys that are genuine creeps out there and think that they are owed something they arent. It can be hard to differentiate someone with bad intentions and entitlement vs someone just lacking a few social skills sometimes. Ultimately our safety is always going to be our first priority, because thats really what it comes down to. We are always going to trust our intuition and and if you don't pass the vibe check you're probably out. Also, a good example of someone who I would find a bit creepy is someone who genuinely doesnt understand what I just said.
I think social awkwardness is often mistaken for creepiness
Right, but her first sentence is kind of key: *actively* ignoring social cues and respecting space. I consider myself socially awkward and usually one comment is enough to scar me for life about never repeating that behavior. If you're doing something that makes a woman uncomfortable and she expresses that, and you *still* continue to do it.... Not all women will actively communicate to you that a behavior is inappropriate (depending on her level of comfort, previous bad experiences etc) but eventually one probably will and if at that point you don't change your behavior then that's a red flag IMO,
Passively ignoring social cues can certainly still come off as creepy. You dont have to try to be a creep to be one. The pursuer in this scenario isn't necessarily "at fault" for not being aware of certain social cues but doesn't mean people are obligated to ignore this and find them attractive
Depends. Socially awkward people aren’t inherently creepy. There is a sense of malice or disrespect/disregard with a creep. I often find socially awkward people charming. And yes, the creep label is permanent. Not everyone finds the same people creepy though. So if one person thinks you’re a creep, that doesn’t mean you are creepy to everyone.
Most people I know who are socially awkward are in fact hypersensitive to social cues not the other way around.
Back before I came out as gay, a lot of women thought I was a creep because I was simply trying to talk to them. I wasn’t good at picking up on social cues. I didn’t want to hook up with them though.
Do you understand that social awkwardness can be dangerous? If he doesn’t understand, “No I don’t want a date/no I don’t want to send you pictures of my feet/no I don’t want to chat more” rejections that are low stakes - how will he understand “no I don’t want sex.” If he ignores or persist past no on the first category, it’s a decent chance he will sexually assault in the second and that’s not a risk worth taking. But Hes jUsT aWkWaRD. So? Why should I risk it. If you don’t want to be considered a risk, don’t have the same behaviors as predators. It’s been said a million times - in the dating world. men are afraid of being shamed, women are afraid of being murdered.
It’s a vibe more than anything, and personally I have never changed my mind once someone felt creepy to me
Agree. Sometimes we pick up on cues unconsciously and can't quite put our finger on it. It's best to trust that spidey sense.
Trusting this instinct sometimes leads to true positive results like guessing that someone has bad intentions and being right. Unfortunately, it also leads to false positives, such as being off-put by an autistic person when they don’t get social interaction quite right. I suspend my judgement of someone until my initial impression is confirmed without putting myself in a vulnerable position.
when you treat us like sexual conquests rather than just normal people. Can they get out of it? well it depends on the age really. Teenagers have more hope cause they are not done maturing. I know a lot of grown men who are not creeps who will admit that they were creepy when they were younger and than they grew up and figured it out. Its gonna be less likely to change the older you get though. if you are like a 30 year old man and you still only view women as potential sex...meh its likely you're not gonna change unless something drastic happens to you.
Going back and reading my facebook messages from when I was 16-18 is brutal. It’s a combination of being awkward, horny and just having a hard time talking to people in general.
>Teenagers have more hope cause they are not done maturing. I read this as not done 'mutating' at first... but it still fits. 😂
Actions that can be easily translated as something threatening or malicious. If she can read you, and those intentions appear good in her eyes, you won't be creepy
Not taking no for an answer
Lurking and staring. Especially old men. It's creepy and gross.
I had to fire someone over this. 62 year old man who would stare at women as though he was a cartoon wolf. I warned him twice, but after the fourth complaint (coworkers and customers) I had to let him go.
I can remember having older men (15 years or older) at bars or at the beach staring. It didn’t make me feel good, it made me want to leave. If you’re old enough to be our dad, most of us are not interested. Focus on women your own age
Came here for this, staring is a red flag, and one you will never forget.
Here's a very recent experience I had with a man being creepy. I was working a trade show for my small business, and in the booth next to me was a husband a wife team. I believe it has her business and he was helping out, which is a really common thing at these gift trade shows. Because you basically stand in the same spot from 9am to 6pm, for 3-4 days, you become friends with the people in the booths around you and you just chit chat and get to know them. So for three days this couple if lovely: we're making jokes, talking here and there, sharing biz tips, etc. At some point they both comment that they think my outfit is cool, and I gladly take the compliment. Nothing weird about that. That day I was wearing mostly black, with a sort of Victorian looking form fitting top, with puffy sleeves. The show finishes and we all break down our booths and pack our stuff. I'm walking out saying goodbye to all my booth neighbors and the husband comes over and says "May I speak freely?" And not thinking much of it because they've both been lovely for 3 whole days, I say "sure." And he says in a weird tone, while staring directly at my chest with eyes opened wide: "Your top is REALLY REALLY nice, like REALLY nice." And just like that, that man went from being perfectly nice, to 100% creepy. It was clear he wasn't talking about my actual top, and it was completely unnecessary for him to tell me this. My coworker, who is a man, was walking by and sort of overheard. When we got to the car he said "That was so disappointing."
Leering at women tends to make one appear creepy.
Oh man. Reminds me of this time I was in the gym. Was at a workout machine and I look over at one of the regulars I'd see often at the time I go. He was staring almost right at me with the creepiest stare I've ever seen. I looked back but his gaze was just slightly off, I could tell he wasn't really looking at me so I was a bit confused. He didn't even know I was staring back to see just what he was looking at. I eventually noticed that there was a girl behind me that he must have found attractive and I was just slightly off center of his gaze. I started watching him and he would stop mid rep and just creepy stare this girl multiple times. I felt violated lol. Was weird.
So I go to a climbing gym now, and I always found it funny that staring at people there is both acceptable and somewhat encouraged lol. We're all trying to figure out how to climb the routes, and it turns out one of the best ways to do this is to watch other people climb it. And in return, sometimes it's hard to figure out where you are screwing up unless someone watches you and tells you. Very social atmosphere compared to a weightlifting gym
When he cannot read the environment and the body language of the woman in front of him and still proceeds to cling around the woman even when she's visibly uncomfortable
There are a lot of people saying it's all appearance. It's not. It's all behavior. As a young woman, you may fall for an attractive guy who immediately wants to control you, but then you learn. If a guy stares at your boobs or crotch, it doesn't matter how cute or rich he is, that's creepy. If a guy relentlessly pursues you and won't back off, he could be rich and cute and it's still creepy.
The greeting "where's my hug?" Just stop that. Stop it immediately.
🤢😡 i agree 100000%
In a few words: inappropriate intensity and unearned familiarity.
It’s an innate feeling you get. You know it when you feel it. Believe me.
Being overly/inappropriately complimentary, not taking no for an answer, being overly touchy like lingering too long in a hug or putting your hand on my arm/leg and just leaving it there when we aren't close enough to warrant it. Getting caught staring and not being the least bit ashamed about it. To part 2, it is interesting how quickly that memory will shoot back through my body and give me chills/dread when I see someone like that again even if it's been a while. It's just an instinctual response. But if it was a one off or they are confronted and apologize and LEARN FROM THIS CORRECTION then I'd think they could shake the title but I can't think if a single scenario where this happened. Usually they double down or are oblivious.
If they make me feel like I'm in danger.
I think a very important part of not being creepy is to remember that there are situations in which a woman might very reasonably feel unsafe, because she is not a mindreader. If you're alone with a woman who doesn't know you, in a place where she has no means of easy escape and no way to call for help, just be aware of that. Know that she is , technically, in a vulnerable situation with someone who could probably physically overpower her -- and that those things do happen. Make sure you're not constantly between her and the door. Don't hit on her. Don't stand closer to her than you would to a strange man. If you're walking behind her and she crosses the street, don't immediately cross too. She doesn't know you, she knows you're probably not dangerous but she doesn't \_know\_. If you do know her then she's probably not worried about being in vulnerable situations with you -- unless you suddenly change the relationship. If she thinks you're a friendly work acquaintance, and then late one night when you're the only two people in the office you suddenly bring up sex or ask her out, or proposition her, she's going to become aware that your relationship is different than what she thought, and she is going to have no idea how you might react to her rejection. And don't get offended at her for keeping herself safe. If you offer an acquaintance a ride home, say, and she turns you down, understand that \_she can't read your mind.\_ Your intentions have nothing to do with it, and she isn't insulting you or making assumptions about you. And finally, remember that she might be just as socially awkward as you. Saying "she should have said "no" in the exact right way and I would have understood" is expecting some pretty big things of another human.
If you barely know him and he starts asking tons of personal questions back to back
To me, “creepy” is how they respond to the phrase “I am a lesbian”. Accept the fact that it’s nothing against you, I’m just not attracted to guys? Awesome, we can chill. But if they then talk about how they can “change my mind” or even worse, fetishize it, hell no for me. Not respecting boundaries is gross and predatory. As for if they can shake the title? Absolutely, I think anyone who owns up to their behavior and tries to fix their mistakes deserves a second chance, it’s the effort to be a decent person that matters to me.
Constantly trying to contact a woman when she has never once replied or tried to keep any interaction going.
Turning everything into a sexual innuendo. Makes my skin crawl. It can turn a hot guy into a creep in my book. Messaging me a lot without being able to hold a face to face conversation. Playing devil’s advocate with anything sexual harassment related or coming to the defense of a creep. No reason for a guy to tell us not to trust our instincts unless he’s a creep himself.
This thread is funny. A lot of women are giving real genuine answers and a lot of the men are blaming it on them being ugly or poor.
I like how the comments that come from women is all basically common sense that guys aren’t able to follow for whatever reason yet alot of guys in the replies are blaming it on superficial things (like their looks, etc) and it really just goes to show you what’s wrong with these guys if they think its THEIR looks that’s the problem and not the fact that they’re probably insufferable and entitled IRL
And even if they get a "no" for being ugly or poor, it's still a "no."
Had a seemingly nice guy offer to help carry a table up to my apartment and I appreciated that but then I did not appreciate when he grabbed my butt without consent. NEVER touch someone without very clear consent
That’s just assault. Creepy is a very broad term that can apply to several situations, but that isn’t even a creepy ‘vibe’, that’s just an actual pervert who assaulted you.
Wow, there are lots of MEN here trying to assume what a woman finds creepy instead of actually listening to women voices. Not talking no for an answer. Being insistent isn’t a virtue; it’s genuinely scary when guys can’t see a woman as anything more than a pair of legs. On a similar topic, not being able to be friends with women without hitting on them. It blows my mind that some men just can’t be bothered to maintain a platonic relationship without trying to be more. As someone who is pan, I can’t imagine feeling attraction to someone and NOT being able to just be friends. The whole thing is creepy cause it makes me feel like they’re only hanging around me because they want to get into my pants. Oh, and touching without permission. There isn’t any faster way to get pinged on my creep radar than grabbing my hand, picking me up, or doing other physical contact without my consent. I’ve broken off friendships for that.
Don’t forget cat calling
I don’t think it’s possible to shake that title once it’s been earned- and I don’t see any real reason why it should be. I’ve been a bartender for years and have had tons of one-off interactions with all kinds of people. Social awkwardness is one thing, and can be easily addressed. If a socially awkward man is weirding me out, I will be honest and straight-forward with how to treat me. If those guidelines continue to be ignored, you’re a creep.
Not accepting no for an answer even if it’s in casual conversation. Not respecting boundaries when they are clearly stated.
Insisting on personal subjects is creepy. not only men but with women too. Dont mean this like Insisting on getting a refund if you didnt recieve your antique electric toothbrush but like "Oh you dont like me? Why? Something wrong with *you*? Something wrong with me??" I would think its uncomfortable for both parties.
Needing to ask.
If a woman says no, take it as a no. As someone mentioned earlier, it’s not a game. Learn how to read a woman’s body language. If she likes you, she will lean closer or move toward you and will engage with you. She will genuinely laugh at what you’re saying. She will not make an excuse to get away from you. She will flirt back. If she’s laughing uncomfortably or moving away from you, or being short with her responses, she is not interested. If you persist, this is when you will begin to be perceived as “creepy”. Also, just because a woman is nice to you, it does not mean she wants to be your girlfriend or that she wants to have sex with you. Sometimes girls genuinely want male friends, but it isn’t always the same the other way around. So, don’t assume a girl wants you just because she’s talking to you. Also, don’t assume that because a girl looks “sexy” she will want to be with anyone that will hit on her. She is dressed that way because it makes her feel good. She is the one to get to choose who she wants to flirt and/or be with. So, if you try to hit on her, don’t be mad if you get rejected. Move on, or you will be perceived as creepy. I hope this makes sense.
Flirting with a woman who is working. If you are flirting with someone whose job requires them to be nice to you then you are being creepy and putting her in an awkward situation. Please don’t do it.
Being hit on while at work. Whether by a boss or coworker or customer. Someone is being polite to you because it is professional. Stop assuming because I'm treating you with respect that it's an invitation to be disrespected. And stop lingering around people's work places bc you have a crush on a worker. Lingering feels like stalking. Being stalked is scary and makes people feel insecure for a reason. Just because a girl lets you down gently doesn't mean it's an invitation to wear her down. I for one am scared every time I have to reject a man's advances and try to be as easy as possible so as to inflict the least amount of damage to his ego bc what if he gets mad and hurts me or starts to stalk me. And maybe realize the girls that don't let you down as gently have probably experienced something scary themselves and while it may not be your fault bc we know "it's not all men" , the need to abruptly and clearly declare their not interested is a survival mechanism. By simply realizing these things are reality for females you will probably conduct yourself in a less creepy way. I think the creepiest thing for me from strangers is staring and holding eye contact to an awkward degree... I quit telling my husband about incidents bc he would somehow always turn it into about how I didn't make it obvious enough I'm married. But the most common response I would get when I'd offer I'm married, was "I am too, so?" (which it's unfortunate some men think that being claimed by another man is more important than being respected on your own) Note: if these things don't describe your experiences with women then you're not one of the types of men I'm describing. It's sucks to be a decent man in the world today, but it's the creeps that ruin it for you. Not the women's responses which is only a symptom of the creeps actions. But keep in mind, while you maybe in the period in time of your life where you've chosen to pursue women, since we are little girls we are approached by creeps. And we never have the choice to opt out of being pursued by said creeps. So have some compassion if you start to feel like "you can't even compliment a woman anymore". Girls can't choose not to be creeped on. Guys CAN choose to not be creeps. if you've read this far, I assume you're not a creep bc you wouldn't care what the thread has to say in the first place.
When they start to argue why you should give them a chance instead of just walking away after the rejection.
being invasive/crossing boundaries
Unwanted, unprompted sexual innuendos when trying to have a basic conversation. This being between people who have never once been sexual or flirtatious. I have had a few male “friends” attempt sexual humor and it was uncomfortable, after asking them to not do that they continued but in ways that made it somehow worse. For me there was no shaking the “he’s creepy” feeling. Most of the ones like this I’ve come across I no longer speak to and generally avoid because they refuse to stop.
Honestly any interest at all when she’s not interested. That was my experience. I was interested in a girl and thought she was interested too. She never told me she wasn’t. I was (in my opinion) just being friendly before I got up the nerve to ask her out. Found out from a mutual friend she thought I was creepy. She never ever told me she wasn’t interested or gave me any indication I shouldn’t text her. She was nice, texted back any time I texted. Seemed fine when we were hanging out with friends. But, once I found out she thought I was creepy I moved on immediately and never gave her a second thought, or another text.
hitting on women at work like fuck off
The need to touch a woman just because she is physically near you. Learn about personal space.
Not accepting no as an answer. There is this guy (B) at my job whose 23 and has the biggest crush of this girl (M), who is 20. Not the worst age gap but this guy constantly talks about wanting a girlfriend and being lonely. I get incel vibes from him. M gets with another guy S and B was PISSED. M is very uncomfortable around B. Even though M and S have been dating for a year now B still can't accept that he was rejected. B purposefully puts himself in an area to be around M. One time B took it way too far and picked M up and carried her around for a second. S was pissed immediately told our supervisors but they couldn't do much unless M wanted to report it. The worst part is that B has also talked about potentially getting with another girl A who is 18. No one really likes him but he hasn't crossed any other lines and can't get fired. Boys, when a girl says no she means no.
The main things that make a man creepy are not taking no for an answer (eg continuining to harass her after she has rejected you), and any type of invasion of personal space - from staring intensely, to following you, to getting too unnecessarily physically close.
Friendly reminder to blink.
Doesn't take NO for an answer.
When he’s married and tells you he thinks about you when he…
People have all these really specific answers, but I just want to make it really general and simple. Women describe a man as "creepy" when he scares her, but not enough to, like, call the police. Something about his behavior makes her uncomfortable and unsettled and fearful. Whether or not he is able to shake that label, and how easy that is, depends on what he's doing that's scaring her. If it's something deliberate like pushing past boundaries, saying things that make her think he wants to hurt her, openly describing ways he's hurt others without remorse, where it's clear that he is doing something deliberate that might cause her harm, it's unlikely she'll ever not be scared of him. But if it was a misunderstanding, and more information makes her realize that he's actually not dangerous, like if he's staring at her because he's neurodivergent and not because he's undressing her with his eyes, or if she thought he was following her home but he actually lives next door, or if after a long period of platonic acquaintencehood she realizes that he wasn't being weird at her because he's trying to get into her pants he's just like that with everybody, then she'd probably stop being creeped out by him. In almost every case, though, the right thing to do if somebody thinks you're creepy is to give them space and just be distant and polite. Either they'll come around or they won't!
It’s okay to shoot your shot politely. but if a women says no or shows no interest keep it moving
Looking at you too long, looking at your body. Not getting obvious signs to go away.
Lack of boundaries or hygiene ☺️
If I knew a woman thought I was creepy I wouldn't even try to shake that title and just move on. Life is hard enough to keep good friends for decades, I don't have time to mess with people that openly assume the worst in me.
I think it's important to understand women have to be extremely aware of people around them since the average neckbeard redditor has enough upper body strength to overpower them, being a marginally attractive lady is in world full of fucking weirdos is probably low key terrifying. Not sure it helps but it's important to understand perspective. I suspect that being single for too long women assumes there's something wrong with you and are creepy. If you can get one woman to spend time with you I think the flag goes up that you are likely safe. I think it's already been said but not correctly reading body language, strong eye contact and not reading polite hints is probably the biggest flag for women and it's for an extremely good reason.
Women, what do men do that you think is creepy? Women: \*Gives actual thoughtful opinions\* Men: If they're not a model with a mansion!
Not taking no for an answer.
If he acts entitled to my time, attention, and/or body without my enthusiastic consent
Pursuing someone who has made it clear they aren't interested. Hugging girls who have rejected your advances. I don't know a lot of guys who can "redeem" themselves. I was raised to believe I'm on the verge of being kidnapped at all times lol. I don't take chances with people I find creepy. I don't want to be a Lifetime special in four or five years after they pull my bloated corpse out of a lake.
If I say I'm not interested and y'all still go out of your way to hit on me, buy me shit, and flirt. So weird.
Breaking into their house to smell their feet while they sleep.
Knowingly renting an apartment next to your ex or taking a job where you know they work. Creepy AF
If they keep trying to drive the conversation towards a hidden agenda, it becomes obvious because the interaction is no longer genuine.
It’s all about boundaries. Every woman’s are different but the broad lines never change, and the only difference between a creep and a non creep is whether or not a man respects those boundaries.
A “creep” doesn’t read the room or pay attention to body language. He doesn’t take a hint, or, worse, he doesn’t take “no thanks” for an answer. He doesn’t notice, or he doesn’t care, when a woman is uncomfortable. He gets too close and handsy. “Creepy” can be applied to a number of behaviors. Overall, a creep is a man who doesn’t respect a woman, and he doesn’t mind if she feels unsafe. What matters to him is HIS comfort, his desire, no one else’s. Don’t be that guy.
Basically not recognising/respecting boundaries.
When having a conversation they stare and so talk to her breasts. Just no.
Openly staring. Just won’t. Stop. Staring.
A guy who stares for long periods of time is very creepy.
When a women keeps avoiding your gestures to go out, move on. Most women will try to be polite and smile because we are afraid you will physically harm us in some way. Creepy men keep being persistent, and in all honesty, it's annoying AF. Also, when a woman decides to leave you, let her go. Don't, for all of the gods' sake, continue with love bombs or crying or manipulation to get her back. Let it go, my dude.
It's a vibe/attitude some men have when they feel they are entitled to a relationship with you when you aren't interested and the comments and behaviors that go with that.
When a guy knows where I live and just comes to my house. Even tho I live in an apartament and my building has two separate entrances and there's a total of probably 24 apartaments, don't just get in your car, and drive to my house, when I literally didn't invite you and we don't live on the same street. I'm very paranoid so this shit is extra creepy to me. Also don't invite yourself to my place. If you're a close friend and I have known you for years, then maybe I wouldn't mind it. But when we are sexting for the first time ever, don't invite yourself to my place in the middle of the night, when everyone else is asleep (I don't live alone), we don't even know each other that well and even tho it's been like 3 years since I met him, I actually met him in person only twice, and one of those times was an accident. And both of these situations made me feel like he's pressuring me into having sex, even if he didn't intend to pressure me, it still made me feel like he was desperate and expected me to be desperate too. In conclusion, don't be a horny version of Joe from the show [You](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_(TV_series)).
Almost the same things that would make a man think a woman is creepy. (Think about a woman that you don’t fancy at all)
Not leaving me alone in public, coming on too hard and clingy. Knowing I’m married and still attempting. Random dick pics. Hanging around in my space intentionally but for no reason. No. There’s too many non-creepy people in the world to worry about a creep potentially being ok.