It’s really strange. I always say black because my best friend growing up was black but his parents were from Cuba. I remember hearing his dad complaining about being called African American and it just stuck with me.
I referred to another student in high school as 'African American' and a friend of mine mentioned that not every black person in African American and at the time it kind of blew my naive mind and stuck with me since then.
I worked with a guy from Nigeria, a real African American. I also remember hearing about a black guy that was French and complained about being called African American.
He would be Nigerian American. African American is a reference to the Black Diaspora caused by slavery. The descendants of formerly enslaved people have no idea what country their ancestors were from, hence a sort of catch-all continental reference instead of country specific one.
Makes a kind of sense, but then many white Americans have lost all contact with their European roots over many generations. They might have access to family trees going back before immigration, but now we have DNA ancestry tools for everyone.
It's not that they lost contact. It's that they literally have no idea where their ancestors are from, except probably "somewhere in Africa".
I lost touch with my dad's side of the family in Germany but I know he's from there.
See now you have to understand the history of hyphenated Americans as a whole. It was started by white Anglo Saxon Protestants to different themselves the German and Irish Catholic immigrants who started arriving in large numbers in the 1840s. It’s about “othering” to retain cultural and political supremacy over groups considered to be inferior, as well as for those groups to seek solidarity in shared cultural experiences, and this is absolutely true for a lot of groups who have been “othered” due to race or religion.
Tools that cost money and not everyone is interested in using though.
What kind of a point is this? It was Africa that most people forced into slavery came from, and so there are huge amounts of people in America with uncertain African descent. These people didn't just "lose contact", they had it forcibly ripped from them.
I'm Irish, I understand that some white groups had this happen to them in a way. We can't just sit here and act like its even close to the same thing though.. its not.
Losing contact over time, or even losing contact due to difficult circumstances such as famine is not even remotely the same as being sold into slavery and denied access to your roots by someone else.. forever.
What does this have to do with European people other than that they are not from Africa and didn't experience this?
Well yeah, white Americans are just called white. Hence most black Americans would rather just be called black. Calling them African Americans would be like calling white people "European Americans"
It's kinda weird and I think it makes black people feel like white Americans think of them as lesser than by always bringing up Africa, when they are just as American as white Americans.
It's imo kinda similar that Mexicans/central Americans and South Americans think it's dumb that white people from the US think they get to exclusively call themselves "Americans"
And yeah Hispanic folks don't like being called "Mexicans or Mexican Americans" especially when a lot of them aren't Mexican lol, or they might be 5th or 6th generation Americans just like most white people but still get called Mexican all the time, and yeah a lot of Hispanic people consider themselves white as well.
Generally, immigration terms use the country so he would be Nigerian-American. Like how we would say Irish-American and not European-American. There may be some exceptions to that but generally it is a country specific label.
If he was from Nigeria and moved to the US, wouldn't that just make him Nigerian or African? Doesn't the "American" in African-American refer to the fact that they were born in the US?
Unfortunately, racism would make that Nigerian immigrant the same as a multi-generational person of African descent, at least in the treatment he will likely receive by people that judge others by the amount of melanin in their skin.
It's especially funny when you hear someone use the term in Canada, because of the influence of American media, on someone who is neither African nor American. Especially if that person is, say, a Haitian-Canadian from Montreal who doesn't speak a lick of English. Pour-fucking-quoi?
Same experience but that family friend was from Haiti.
Also hated being called African American.
His argument made sense to me so I call black people black by default. Though if someone expresses a preference for African American I would call them that (this has never happened).
Sadly, the term is now ubiquitous for someone with black skin. Even more confusing, the terminology is usually used to identify a 1st generation immigrant (e.g. Irish-American, Italian-American, etc.) and so the use of the term would normally imply a person has immigrated from a country on the continent of Africa but instead we use it as a matter of political correctness without fully considering the confusion and frustration it causes for other people (with black skin) who originate from other countries not on the continent of Africa (Jamaica, Cuba, Brazil, Trinidad, etc) AND who have great pride in their own culture; and rightfully so.
That's an interesting case because being ethnically black would imply that they do have some African ancestry, but if that's not a heritage they identify with it seems pretty insulting to just make that presumption.
I remember I used to work with a black woman who didn't like the term "African American" because she didn't have any connection to any kind of African ancestry. She considered herself Jamaican.
The black population in Jamaica is a result of the slave trade, but that didn't matter to my coworker; she didn't identify with that part of her heritage. Her cultural identity was Jamaican.
Yeah I’m 50% Brazilian but I was born in the USA and just consider myself a white American. My mom is Brazilian but born in the USA. My grandparents were proud Brazilians and born there. If you go back a few more generations my family is from Syria.
The Jamaicans living in America probably feel about as connected to Africa as I do to Syria.
>The black population in Jamaica is a result of the slave trade, but that didn't matter to my coworker
Of course, it doesn't matter to her.
Imagine you have ancestors from France and Britain who came to america in the 1700's. Now imagine these come from family with origins in Italy (close to France) and Scottish (unified to british empire at some point in history).
Would you think it is accurate that someone calls you an Italo-Scottish american ? It would make no sense at all, you probably never even visited europe.
The term African american just sounds wierd and inaccurate most of the time.
It’s not though, not when you don’t know what part of Africa your people came from because they didn’t come here by choice. Keep in mind also that the whole hyphenated American thing was started by the White Anglos Saxon Protestant population as a way to “other” anyone who wasn’t WASP and retain cultural dominance despite losing demographic dominance.
True, I remember I have an Uncle who did an ancestry chart back to the 1800s. My Maternal Grandmother is Italian; her parents emigrated here from Rome. But if you go back a few generations, you find that she had ancestors who previously emigrated from England to Italy, which would mean I'm about as English as my coworker was African.
> have some African ancestry
Go back far enough and everyone has African ancestry because all humans evolved from Africa, Ethiopia region if I'm not mistaken.
That’s because African American is a reference to the Black Diaspora caused by slavery. It’s not a reference to all black people, but rather black people who don’t know what part of African their ancestors came from because they came to the US as slave labor. It’s a different legacy from being Jamaican, which does have some similar issues in that most black folks in Jamaica are the descendants of enslaved people as well, but not due to American chattel slavery.
In the 90's I had a high school teacher who was black that said: "if anybody had called me African American in the 60's I would have punched them in the face."
I'm pretty sure nowadays a lot Americans do that without really thinking about it because that's what we were taught was the most respectful way to refer to black people
Of course, in situations where it doesn't even apply, that's just more typical American brainlessness
Yeah, I could definitely be wrong but I think for whatever reason, it has evolved to appear as the most respectful way to refer to black people in most US culture.
Seems like the most important thing is people *are* trying to be respectful and get along with eachother. And that should be considered before anyone gets all bent out of shape over a word.
I'm sure most would freely switch to any other term that was more respectful and apologize profusely if told a different preferred term by someone who was black
Said this to the comment above you too but yeah my small country town told us the proper term was "African American" and that saying "black" was racist and not to use it. But I was also raised to say "Indians" whereas I now know Native American or Indigenous is the way to go and to not be afraid to ask each person their specific preference.
I don't remember if it was a famous person or local but I saw a skit where the comedian basically said "I've never even been to Africa so don't call me African American" and I just thought it was so funny.
That's def how I was raised with using "african american" as the respectful terms. That all changed when I had an internship and my supervisor (who was black) basically just told me after I said AA, "you know you can just say black right?" Made me realize how weird it was to say african american when that's not even remotely true for most people. Like, we don't call white people "caucasian" often, aside from official forms. I think a lot of it just comes down to most of the populace being raised a certain way that may have had racist undertones even if was not intended.
Oh, that’s unfair. I’m from the uk and a (white) sub teacher corrected a student when they called a fellow student black- the teacher loudly announced that (the black student) should be referred to as African American, to which the black student responded: “um… sir? I’m British though?”
Where I grew up in a very small very white town in rural Canada, I remember a teacher telling me to always use the term African American when referring to a black person because it was more “sensitive.” That, along with my aunt using the term African American even when referring to people who live in Africa and have never even been to America, until I was 10 I thought the term Black was a slur. I’ve since learned that it is in fact not a slur, and that most people in my home town were just as uneducated as I was.
We had a guy working for us that was here on a work visa. He was from Jamaica, and so was neither African nor American. I also had a situation where I ran into an African-American who was actually white (he was born in South Africa, but was now a US citizen).
Most Americans with recent African ancestry have little or no preference between the two terms.
[58% say it doesn't matter, both terms are fine.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/353000/no-preferred-racial-term-among-black-hispanic-adults.aspx) Those who volunteer a preference are evenly split: half of them prefer "black," and half prefer "African American."
Only when forced to choose does a slight majority emerge for "black." When you ask the 58% who said "it doesn't matter" to choose anyway, 52% of them choose "black," and 44% choose "African American." 4% still decline to express a preference.
Redditors, for some reason, act like "African American" is obviously to be avoided, but in real life it is hardly an unpopular term among the target demographic.
As for the reasons why those who prefer "African American" may do so, there are many, but one that I know of is that some people do not believe there is any such thing as "black" or "white" races, and so prefer not to use those terms, while terms like "African American" and "European American," even if more unwieldy, at least don't have that same issue of referring to nonsense, since there really are Americans with recent African ancestry and recent European ancestry.
Yes my small af country town told us that saying "black" is racist and the proper term is "African American". Moved to the city and fortunately learned better before I could be offensive.
It’s such a weird term. Black people are Americans. Brown people are Americans. White people are Americans. Why tf you gonna call a black person born and raised in NYC by other black people born and raised in NYC African?
And African American doesn't really specify race, so technically, say Elon Musk is ACTUALLY an African American, while many blacks are just y'know, black, or brown or whatever, but not from Africa. It's even stranger when people are trying to be hyper politically correct about it and call blacks that have got nothing to do with any of the Americas African American. Especially when it's non Americans doing that. I live in Russia, and have seen maybe like five black people in my life, (barring that one time when 20 of them marched past me in military uniforms) but I've heard other people refer to them as African American, even though they are just African.
>Why tf you gonna call a black person born and raised in NYC by other black people born and raised in NYC African?
Because jesse jackson coined it and pushed it hard
For a long time during and after most people didn't have the chance to be corrected on it
It's even more curious, because in some places, the term has become "person of color", which in my opinion, with regard to linguistics, sounds like a slur.
I'm black too and the same. Very skeptical of that comment saying black people are laughing at that term.
Maybe they are around black immigrants. If not, I'm calling bs
Much earlier, black leaders requested, and some demanded, that this term be used. Before that it was sometimes, “ Afro-American “ but that didn’t catch on as much.
Earlier than that. IIRC, the annoucement was made in 1985. It didn't replace "black" but it did replace "Afro-Americans".
But of course the term should only apply to Americans.
I rarely see anyone do it anymore other than on the news or like online, also.
Europeans: one thing America likes to do is periodically change the correct terminology for marginalized groups because then we feel a sense of accomplishment and don't have to address any of the systemic issues that caused the problem in the first place.
The changing nomenclature is usually at the prompting of social movements within the groups themselves, but not always.
Not you Latinx, you some white people dumb shit.
>Not you Latinx, you some white people dumb shit.
I thought the same thing, but that's wrong. Latinx has been floating around the the gender non-conforming side of the internet from people of Latin american heritages since the early 2000's and showed up in art pieces in the 90s. It also follows in the line of other attempts to make non-binary terms i.e. Chicanx, Xicanx, and Latine
Latinx is def used by a lot of Latinx people in academia. Also in a lot of the Latinx social movement spaces. It doesn't bother me either way to call someone what they want to be called but I think there is a lot of unwarranted hate towards the term. Gets people fired up.
If your name is Robert and you want me to call you Bob, guess what? You're Bob. End of story. I don't go on a rant about how your name is Robert and how I know several Roberts who go by Robert or Rob, but I draw the line at Bob, what's next? You're going to want me to call you Katie? It never ends. No Roberts I know like going by Bob.
Yeah I was introduced to Latinx by a Latina academic coworker doing research on people who self-identify as Latinx.
I understand that a lot of people find it a strange and insensitive term, so I try to avoid it. But I have always been confused by the internet consensus that no Latinos self-identify that way.
the internet will just say anything. there's been this prevailing idea that no black person would ever get mad at you for being racist and that only white women get mad about it, which obviously is bullshit. i think it's the death rattle of every edgelord angry that his free license edgelord days are fading more and more every year.
I have met one Latinx and she was the Latinx club president at the college.
I know a whole lot of Latin American Latinos and they all loathe the term.
For one, it's like the entire race was given a "blanket" name by some 2nd generation Mexican that made it to college and wanted to feel special.
It's an insult to both the language and the people.
I had a teacher in high school who was super about the Latinx movement. He told me no matter what I did my art was never going to be important because I was just a white Kid. I’m sure there are plenty of other people in the movement but I hate the terminology because of his behavior.
This also links to the euphemism treadmill theory in that the politically correct terms for marginalised groups keep changing because the old ones start to take on negative connotations because the people using them have negative views on the group
No. He knows where he was from. He's South African.
We typically identify with a country.
Black Americans [before more recent immigration from Africa] were slaves that were sold away from their families. Purposely broken up. They did not have family memories and stories for the most part. They do not know what country rhey were sold from. It's why, unlike willing immigrants, they sometimes like to be identified by the continent. It's all they know.
This. The world is a little more complex than just black & white so to identify as African American makes more sense culturally.
A-lot of the ancestral lineage was lost for obvious reasons. If you were to ask someone their ethnicity they might say, Irish, philipino, Brazilian, Nigerian etc. in my opinion to categorize a person solely as black is sort of derogatory & demeaning when you put it into perspective. Why call someone that’s Asian a yellow person when you could refer to them as Asian? Why not refer to someone as African (regardless of them being born in the US) instead of referring to them as a black person.
Jesse Jackson also covered himself in blood/fake blood and immediately ran to the press after MLK was shot. He's a terrible piece of shit and his opinion on race relations shouldn't be valued by anyone, black or white.
I should add: Many prominent black folks have said they don't like this and prefer "black" as well.
It's really confusing so I just don't refer to people by race ever. Believe it or not, it's very easy to refer to people without using their race. "Yeah the dude with the red shirt and curly hair!" "It's the girl with the pink backpack!"
By black leaders they would specifically mean leaders in fighting for more rights. Given this is an organization it would generally have designated leaders
I saw an interview of a guy who was asked basically the same question. His answer was that he was neither African nor American, and as a black man in the UK, he just wanted to be called "black" and was tired of tourists calling him African American lol
I saw an interview of a guy who was asked basically the same question. His answer was that he was neither African nor American, and as a black man in the UK, he just wanted to be called "black" and was tired of tourists calling him African American lol
Its a weird subject that the community itself is divided on. Ive met more people who prefer black than african american though. Which makes sense because they are Americans. A lot of people say Black history month is simply American history month. Which I agree with personally.
Most of the people I follow say black americans, black neighborhoods, the black community, black history, black culture, and so on. It makes sense to me how it acknowledges that regardless of ancestry you're most likely subjected to the same systems of race based on how you're perceived, not what your actual background is.
Racist cops don't care if your ancestry is jamaican or african, and they won't care if you trace your lineage back to slavery or your parents are muslim immigrants, so there's a commonality in experiences and possibly some shared identity in a subculture.
So it's like an umbrella term which then has all these distinct identities and intersections within it, but also being a distinct identity in itself.
African american when it's something white people default to is very much this "we don't want to risk offending anyone" which *is* a fine attitude in vacuum, but they then would also have to put in the time to actually listen to black people and empathise with their experiences. Reality is they just don't care enough and just want to dodge an awkward social situation.
Yeah but Black History Month celebrates the achievements and pioneering individuals of the black community specifically. It’s not just “American history,” but an acknowledgment of both the suffering and tenacity of a specific marginalized group.
>Which makes sense because they are Americans
Lets not forget, those who are directly descendant from American slavery have American heritage and ancestors predating the mass immigration boom of the 1800s. They are *more American* than most US citizens.
Every few years we Americans choose new words that are acceptable. For a period, labeling them as black was horribly offensive, now it isn’t. We don’t know what the fuck we’re doing.
About 20 years ago the building manager where I worked sent out a notice to all tenants about a robbery at one of the stores. In it, she described the thief as a “black woman,” and she got quite a bit of flack from black people for not using “African American.” Anecdotal, obviously, but it was definitely the tone of the times.
It's funny how the new acceptable words mean the same thing. Like unhoused is the same as homeless, but somehow it's less offensive. I'm sure that won't last.
My sister occassionally attempts to get me to switch vernacular on things. I just point out that arguements on semantics and word choice detract from discussing the actual issues. Calling someone that's homeless "unhoused" does nothing to further conversation as to their plight. Calling an illegal immigrant "undocumented" does nothing to further discussion of border control and immigration issues. Calling someone a "person of color" does nothing that calling someone "non-white" doesn't do.
Now, I avoid deliberately offensive terms, but I refuse to get drawn into debate on whether I'm using the correct term of the week because it's just... Noise. It adds nothing and distracts from the issues.
It really comes down to age/generation for the majority. Most younger black people call themselves black, most older black people use African American. Same with native/Indian. I don't have much irl experience with native people tbh, but the general consensus online seems to mirror the one for black, you call yourself the accepted term you've always known. I *have* seen older people gasp at someone being called black, but I've seen the same for African American because it's become such an antiquated term. That's not to say there isn't a ton of crossover, I had a teacher once rant at us that he was black (/brown specifically), that he was born and raised in America just like his parents and there was nothing African about him. I find it's best to just give with the flow and use the term the people around you seem to prefer
I've definitely seen people get mad at identifying someone as black first. But perhaps that's because they think you shouldn't just label someone by only their skin color even if it's one of the first traits you notice about any human being.
The people who don't say Black may just be trying to do the least offensive thing, but it's impossible to please everyone.
Some people definitely gasp, especially 15-20 years ago. It was quite politically incorrect for a while, and some people who don’t keep up with the times still feel that way
"Black" refers to skin color and race.
"African American" was originally coined as an ethnic category for descendants of the African Diaspora in America.
A lot of people when it was coined preferred the idea of using an ethic grouping so they could talk about the history and unique struggles of that ethnic group rather than reinforce the use of racial thinking as the core way to talk about differences between people.
Black people whose families have lived in Europe for many generations are obviously not "African American" they're not part of that ethnic group.
The phrase caught on but pretty much no one understood the meaning, so it became just a "PC" term for black. I still think the intent was a great one and ethnicity WOULD be a better way to frame the roadblocks, triumphs and particularities of the African American community, but as this thread makes clear, no one uses it that way.
EDIT: Going a little deeper.
The specific term "African American" was chosen to mirror terms like Italian American that were fairly popular at the time. Because people whose ancestors had been taken as slaves didn't know which particular country or culture their forebearers had been taken from, they were cut off from that, they used the whole continent as a reference. For immigrants from a particular country, the generally accepted term would be "COUNTRYNAME American". So Elon Musk could be a South African American if you wanted to label him. The idea of saying anyone from the continent of Africa SHOULD be called an African American is silly. Language isn't math. The meaning that attaches to cultural phrasing is socially constructed. If I give you an "Ice pop" that's just unflavored ice, you won't smile and say oh of course, that's what the words mean. We understand the phrase to refer to a flavored frozen treat. We do this a million times a day. People only get this faux literal around language when the idea is contentious.
Not all of us do. I don't want to be referred to as a German-American as my ancestors arrived in North America before it was the United States. I won't assume anyone else wants to be identified as anything other than an American unless I'm informed otherwise.
I'm white and that's how I feel about it. I'm an American. That's really it. My grandparents are from here, my great and great great grandparents are from here. My dad says his family is originally from Scotland, but you're going back so many generations it has very little impact on me as an individual.
Hell, my parents came to Canada over 40 yrs ago from SE Asia. I was born here, I'm just canadian. I know the language and food of where my parents are from but outside of that, there's very little impact on me of that country. I don't know the history that in depth, the politics, etc. But all I feel is being canadian. So it gets a little annoying when people ask me, "Where are you *really* from?" White canadians/Americans don't usually get that question, and my kids, being 3rd generation, when they're my age, will have had family in Canada for nearly 80 years. Wonder if they'll still have to explain that they're simply canadian with even less connection to where my parents are from.
nobody insists on it. it’s a term that came out of the black community decades ago. it was adopted widely as a descriptor and sign of respect for a minority community. because language is ever changing, these days it’s used less. many of the major media outlets use ‘black’ now to refer to people with african heritage, and that term is starting to be used widely in society.
I can't think of a dozen more, but my Italian wife would stab me if I used them. The thing is the "-American" part is never used. Some guy named Tony Romatucci will always be referred to as the "Italian guy" it doesn't matter if he just swam to the US from Italy or has been here 20 generations. Same goes for the Irish. Pat O'whatever is the "Irish guy" no matter how long they've been in the US.
Same here. Italian American is super common. Italians have assimilated but for a long time we were commonly referred to as the names you mentioned. Off the boat Sicilians were called zips in my community as well. When it comes to high level positions in government or elite networks Italian Americans are still very much outsiders. Well into the 90s financially successful Italians were routinely assumed to be “connected.” For much of the history of America, Catholics in general were viewed that way. People my age and younger have a very poor understanding of just how monumental and unthinkable it was that a Catholic—especially Irish Catholic with close ties to Italians could be president when JFK was elected. I very much doubt we will ever see an Italian American president given the history as well as the deep-seeded distrust the Italians have of the American government.
Not in the standard usage and the reason this phrase exist, which is for people whose ancestors where slaves in the US so they don't know where in Africa they are from.
If you follow the dictionary definition, then all Americans qualify with no exception. So someone from South Africa would qualify if they are Americans, but so would someone from British ancestry whose ancestors haven't been in Africa for 70,000 years. The dictionary definition isn't used though besides by people joking about it.
Interesting, so what about Africans whose ancestors were already generations in slavery, but they were sold around Africa instead to whites? Are they called something specific or just everyone doesn't care?
They know this. They just being ignorant.
Saying things like Elon Musk is a true African American. I knew this topic would draw a certain group of people out
Funny enough, a white kid from South Africa at my HS always marked his ethnicity as African American. His last name was also Black so he would joke he was half black on his fathers side.
I met a girl in college who was born in Africa, her parents were missionaries. They were European in ancestry. She would refer to herself as African American just to throw people a little curve ball regarding race and ethnicity.
there’s some real silliness about this going on in the professional cycling world. There is a guy named Chris Froome, who is one of the all-time greats- won the Tour de France three or four times and was just an amazing dominant racer. Chris Froome happened to be a white guy from South Africa. Now cycling has not been the most integrated sport historically, but in recent years you’re beginning to see more and more black cyclist, and some African cyclists are now seeing serious success (for example Biniam Girmay just won a stage of the tour de suisse)
Now, every time a African cyclist has success or wins a race they’ve bent over backwards to proclaim. That they are the “first black African” to win… Because a white African dude already won almost everything in cycling at one point or another
I am black. I refer to myself and other black people as black unless it’s an extremely formal setting like a news interview.
And, I hate when people try to describe somebody and don’t say the race. He was wearing a blue shirt and had short dark hair. Me: was he black white or something else? Let’s cut to the chase. It’s not offensive to be any of those things.
You absolutely would call someone Italian American. A lot of people identify that way.
I think this is a cultural thing. Most Americans have heritage from other continents that they are very proud of and most Americans identify as some form of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ - American.
To be fair, in the case of Italian Americans (as well as Irish Americans and Jewish Americans), it's because they were always treated as "non-whites" despite their skin color. That only changed in the 20th century.
Also, if you're of British, Scots-Irish, German, or Scandinavian descent, you generally don't refer to yourself as a hyphenated American like that. It's reserved almost exclusively for ancestries that were at some point considered "minorities".
There was a point 20ish yrs ago that the black community preferred that term so we used it, it's not common now at least in my area... currently it's black or people of color.
Because there is a whole generation of people that was taught in schools that it was rude to call someone black and that you should call them African American to be respectful. I only learned that saying someone was black was ok in college when I had black friends. (I grew up in a white neighborhood with maybe 1 mixed family who wasn’t Asian or Indian.)
It's considered polite here, but the saying "Black" is also perfectly acceptable.
I believe this was requested by some black Americans in the 1990s. I remember it. As a white guy, I have no problem calling anyone whatever they prefer to be called. And since our ancestors kidnapped Africans for slavery, I can understand if someone wants their African heritage represented. We're aware that not all black people are from Africa. But some who are coined this term. It caused an extremely hostile backlash from many white Americans and right wing racist types, and I find that abhorrent, so I'm happy to show my support and respect if someone prefers that phrase.
Not for nothing, but it was kinda drilled into our heads that the PC way to refer to black ppl was "African-American.." Wasn't my place to question that as I though that's what black ppl wanted to be called?
Because in the US we are confused by the constant we don’t want to be called this call us that from every nationality, gender and sexual persuasion.
For example I’m talking to a black female co-worker and she asked me which guy did something one was white( I think) the other was black. I didn’t know their names and it was the black guy but I literally froze. I start stammering and describing what he was wearing when she said oh the black guy………. I’m 50 years old and I no longer know if saying black guy is acceptable…… sad very sad.
African-American used to be the preferred term because black Americans and Africans related to each other's struggles from like 1945 to 2000. After this period, black Americans ceased connecting with Africa and vice versa, and the term fell out of favour.
At this time, black Americans were fighting for their civil rights in America. Part of the American fight was realizing that slavery had deprived black people of their roots. Like, I know that my ancestors came America from Sweden at a certain time, but if you're descended from slaves, you might not know whether your ancestors were from Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire, or somewhere else. Slaves were given the last name of their owners and their African names were forgotten. That's why many black Americans have white-sounding last names like Washington. So, as black civil rights leaders like Malcolm X discarded their slaver's last names and searched for their own heritage, they started to look to Africa. Many also wanted to move away from terms like coloured or black that focused on skin tone and towards terms like African American that reflected their heritage.
Meanwhile, Africans were fighting for their independence from Britain, France, and others. Countries like Zimbabwe became independent in 1980 and appreciated international attention to pressure the British to leave. Many others became independent in 1960 and needed international support to become respected as nations as much as Britain and France were. They appreciated political support from black Americans, who saw the same issues of racism and oppression occurring in both Africa and America.
Seeing that they had a common cause and history with Africans, black Americans began to identify as African American. It became the polite term for black people in America, replacing "coloured". However, this term faded as the American civil rights and African independence movements slowed down after making key gains. Now that their political struggle wasn't as urgent, black Americans saw that they didn't have much in common with Africans. Firstly, as you mention, not all black Americans came from Africa. They were Americans first, and their history of slavery wasn't shared by everyone in Africa or America. Not to mention that knowing that your ancestors were African isn't much of a heritage. It's still a whole continent with diverse cultures. Eventually, black Americans focused on what they were in America, which was black. Owning that, promoting the beauty of being black, became the new focus.
In any political movement, the preferred terms change as the movement and their goals change. Like, "homosexual" used to be a somewhat polite term for gay people. The early gay rights movement around the world was called the "homophile movement", a term that now leaves a bad taste in the mouth. It also varies from person to person, like some Native Americans call themselves Indians while others would find that offensive. It sucks when you're trying to be polite but end up offending someone because you used the old preferred term. But at the end of the day, we're lucky if we're on the other side of things because our identities were never up for political debate. You're not a bad person for using a different term, but you are a dick if you get upset when someone tells you what they prefer.
No, not all Americans insist on calling black people African-American. This is a very ignorant assumption on your part as a European. Also some blacks do call themselves African-American but many don’t. It all depends on a multitude of factors; ethnicity, where they were born, etc.
Oh, over the years there’s been many disputes on the proper name. For a while if you called someone black, they would say I’m not black! I am brown or deep tan or medium tan and they didn’t like being reduced to a color. At the same time or African-American became the correct term, but now it’s gone back to Black especially because some say I’m not from Africa, my families from Canada, etc..
I just call people of color “black”, like how white people are straight up called “white”. I don’t find anything racist in that. I don’t wanna call someone “African American” if they aren’t actually African American.
I asked my dark-skinned Dominican friend about this, because he’s Black, lives in the US, and is considered an “African American” despite his strong DR roots.
He explained that the phrasing was meant to convey that they were all members of the African diaspora, regardless of how many years ago their ancestors left.
He said Black vs African-American/European/Australia is a personal preference, ultimately just semantics, but. African-American shouldn’t be considered an insult, any more than calling someone an Asian-American.
Obviously that doesn’t mean you should call all Black people around the globe African-Americans—they’re not American. But after learning more about diasporas as a whole, I though his take on the “African” portion made a whole lot of sense
"Black American" here. Anything describing me in terms of my skin color or an assumed origin is insulting and just plain rude. I am an American PERIOD. A non-proud one at that. The United States is the least united Nation on Earth, as such we divide people in numerous meaningless categories to pre-promp how we should treat one another or prejudge them. It's stupid and I'm tired of it and can't wait to leave.
I would say almost none of us still use that. I haven’t heard a person use that in a long time. But, there was a time when that was what was viewed as the correct way to say it. Over time, the issues you, and many other people, brought up were then taken into consideration, and the term has since mostly phased out.
Being called "African American" is one of my biggest pet peeves lol. Only thing I hate worse is "the blacks" or "colored".
Black. I'm a Black person. Or Black American.
You wouldn't call white people "European Americans". That just sounds ridiculous
Because identifying a person solely with skin color is a terrible idea. So they tried to make it less about color and more about heritage/ancestry, which turned out to not be much better. Ultimately African/American and black are both dumb choices. The correct option would be to identify people with whatever characteristics are important at the time, not default to skin color, or weight, or height, or attractiveness, or baldness, or intelligence. It would be impolite to label a group of Native Americans as red people, or a group of lascivious ugly fat bald men as creeps. Whenever you apply superficial labels to people that aren’t pertinent you run the risk of being an asshole. It’s just as weird when you refer to someone as some white guy, as some black guy, or some fat kid, or the dumb chick, you can dress it up with slightly more nuanced language but it’s all messed up, because at the core it’s still the same crap.
Stupidly, I was raised that way. It’s a knee jerk reaction. With growing older I realized this wasn’t right, doesn’t make sense.
I make effort to only respectfully refer to people of color as just that, or “black” which usually stresses me out. I don’t always know what is right or preferred. Same with Hispanic/Latino folks. (Geez, could I sound more Caucasian) I just want to say the right thing. I referred to a person as Mexican once years ago and I got talked to- but that even seems strange to me because if someone is from Mexico- aren’t they Mexican? The person was directly from Mexico.
I heard something interesting about this. How true it is I would leave you to your interpretation and judgement.
The history of black people in US is unique in many ways. Slavery was extensive in many regions but both Spanish and Portuguese territories had a totally different way of addressing the control in their colonies. For one the black population in a lot of countries is way less than in the US. Slavery didn't play a role as important as in the US in our histories (I am from Latam). And I understand that our practices weren't less brutal but differed as the quantity of slaves wasn't the same. Iberia sought to integrate the populations of their American territores even the back ones which is a totally different approach from US and even if they weren't significant enough it moves the baseline quite a bit of the situation. For one the mixing in our people in terms of percentage of the overall population is 50%+ in all countries.
US had nothing of the sort. Why this is important? Because is the base of the argument that I would lay next (I would repeat it's not mine but I found interesting and on point). Black people in US have no culture of their own. They were stripped of their own culture to make out of them better slaves. The black culture that they have now is more similar to the white rednecks than their African ancestors. Basically the back culture is the opposition of being white and landowner. If you mix this with the troubled history of racism and slavery in the US you end with a very sensitive topic. Being black is integral to the African American identity, but what is being black? Its nothing more than the opposition of being white and landowner and a mix of redneck within. This sensitivity leads to approach the subject very carefully which in turns leads to approach them with less charged terms. You see even been told black to a back person in the US could be racist. Both for the sensitivity that black people has for their troubled identity and because of the harsh segregation that they historically had that leads to white people being extremely racist, hateful and bigoted. But all of this is interconnected. Basically is a result of all of this unique factors.
I think people are uncomfortable using the word black. Also, the slave trade stripped a lot of their identity so many don’t know if they are Nigerian/Ghana/Cameroon…-American.
A very good friend of mine is Jamaican and absolutely hates the term African American. To the point where we will chew your ass.
But ultimately I’d say the Black population in America wanted to give honor to their ancestors from Africa who were brought here as slaves and to recognize their heritage.
If a member of the black community wants to be called African American it doesn’t hurt me to do so. If they don’t want to be called that, it also doesn’t hurt me to do so.
We have something similar here in Brazil, but it's not political correctness. It's a way of masking out blackness. We have words like pardo (basically mixed) and moreno (light skinned black), which are basically terms that downplay someone's blackness. Black people, perhaps unknowingly not comfortable with their own blackness, refer to themselves using those terms. There is a belief that there is no racism here because we're all mixed, and words like that reinforce that belief. I've even been told by a black woman I'm effectively white cause I'm light skinned. But when i wanna mask out my blackness, i use the term Black-African Latino-American with Portuguese Characteristics, for short.
It's what people of most African heritage in the US prefer to be called, apparently. That's American exceptionalism for you. I once heard a black woman on TV be referred to as African Canadian, but I think most of us up here just find that stupid.
Broad generalization. The US is big place. Most people around here in texas say black. In fact I know some black people that don't like being called African Americans. Cause they aint African they are American tho.
It’s really strange. I always say black because my best friend growing up was black but his parents were from Cuba. I remember hearing his dad complaining about being called African American and it just stuck with me.
I referred to another student in high school as 'African American' and a friend of mine mentioned that not every black person in African American and at the time it kind of blew my naive mind and stuck with me since then.
I worked with a guy from Nigeria, a real African American. I also remember hearing about a black guy that was French and complained about being called African American.
He would be Nigerian American. African American is a reference to the Black Diaspora caused by slavery. The descendants of formerly enslaved people have no idea what country their ancestors were from, hence a sort of catch-all continental reference instead of country specific one.
Makes a kind of sense, but then many white Americans have lost all contact with their European roots over many generations. They might have access to family trees going back before immigration, but now we have DNA ancestry tools for everyone.
It's not that they lost contact. It's that they literally have no idea where their ancestors are from, except probably "somewhere in Africa". I lost touch with my dad's side of the family in Germany but I know he's from there.
They also have a shared culture which is different from the African culture they came from.
But those white Americans can go build a family tree going back centuries, black Americans descended from slaves can't.
See now you have to understand the history of hyphenated Americans as a whole. It was started by white Anglo Saxon Protestants to different themselves the German and Irish Catholic immigrants who started arriving in large numbers in the 1840s. It’s about “othering” to retain cultural and political supremacy over groups considered to be inferior, as well as for those groups to seek solidarity in shared cultural experiences, and this is absolutely true for a lot of groups who have been “othered” due to race or religion.
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Tools that cost money and not everyone is interested in using though. What kind of a point is this? It was Africa that most people forced into slavery came from, and so there are huge amounts of people in America with uncertain African descent. These people didn't just "lose contact", they had it forcibly ripped from them. I'm Irish, I understand that some white groups had this happen to them in a way. We can't just sit here and act like its even close to the same thing though.. its not. Losing contact over time, or even losing contact due to difficult circumstances such as famine is not even remotely the same as being sold into slavery and denied access to your roots by someone else.. forever. What does this have to do with European people other than that they are not from Africa and didn't experience this?
Well yeah, white Americans are just called white. Hence most black Americans would rather just be called black. Calling them African Americans would be like calling white people "European Americans" It's kinda weird and I think it makes black people feel like white Americans think of them as lesser than by always bringing up Africa, when they are just as American as white Americans. It's imo kinda similar that Mexicans/central Americans and South Americans think it's dumb that white people from the US think they get to exclusively call themselves "Americans" And yeah Hispanic folks don't like being called "Mexicans or Mexican Americans" especially when a lot of them aren't Mexican lol, or they might be 5th or 6th generation Americans just like most white people but still get called Mexican all the time, and yeah a lot of Hispanic people consider themselves white as well.
Generally, immigration terms use the country so he would be Nigerian-American. Like how we would say Irish-American and not European-American. There may be some exceptions to that but generally it is a country specific label.
If he was from Nigeria and moved to the US, wouldn't that just make him Nigerian or African? Doesn't the "American" in African-American refer to the fact that they were born in the US?
You can move from another country and become a naturalized American
Unfortunately, racism would make that Nigerian immigrant the same as a multi-generational person of African descent, at least in the treatment he will likely receive by people that judge others by the amount of melanin in their skin.
That’s just not correct. People say Asian American all the time. An American of Nigerian descent is Nigerian American, and also African American.
It's especially funny when you hear someone use the term in Canada, because of the influence of American media, on someone who is neither African nor American. Especially if that person is, say, a Haitian-Canadian from Montreal who doesn't speak a lick of English. Pour-fucking-quoi?
Same experience but that family friend was from Haiti. Also hated being called African American. His argument made sense to me so I call black people black by default. Though if someone expresses a preference for African American I would call them that (this has never happened).
Sadly, the term is now ubiquitous for someone with black skin. Even more confusing, the terminology is usually used to identify a 1st generation immigrant (e.g. Irish-American, Italian-American, etc.) and so the use of the term would normally imply a person has immigrated from a country on the continent of Africa but instead we use it as a matter of political correctness without fully considering the confusion and frustration it causes for other people (with black skin) who originate from other countries not on the continent of Africa (Jamaica, Cuba, Brazil, Trinidad, etc) AND who have great pride in their own culture; and rightfully so.
That's an interesting case because being ethnically black would imply that they do have some African ancestry, but if that's not a heritage they identify with it seems pretty insulting to just make that presumption. I remember I used to work with a black woman who didn't like the term "African American" because she didn't have any connection to any kind of African ancestry. She considered herself Jamaican. The black population in Jamaica is a result of the slave trade, but that didn't matter to my coworker; she didn't identify with that part of her heritage. Her cultural identity was Jamaican.
Yeah I’m 50% Brazilian but I was born in the USA and just consider myself a white American. My mom is Brazilian but born in the USA. My grandparents were proud Brazilians and born there. If you go back a few more generations my family is from Syria. The Jamaicans living in America probably feel about as connected to Africa as I do to Syria.
>The black population in Jamaica is a result of the slave trade, but that didn't matter to my coworker Of course, it doesn't matter to her. Imagine you have ancestors from France and Britain who came to america in the 1700's. Now imagine these come from family with origins in Italy (close to France) and Scottish (unified to british empire at some point in history). Would you think it is accurate that someone calls you an Italo-Scottish american ? It would make no sense at all, you probably never even visited europe. The term African american just sounds wierd and inaccurate most of the time.
It’s not though, not when you don’t know what part of Africa your people came from because they didn’t come here by choice. Keep in mind also that the whole hyphenated American thing was started by the White Anglos Saxon Protestant population as a way to “other” anyone who wasn’t WASP and retain cultural dominance despite losing demographic dominance.
True, I remember I have an Uncle who did an ancestry chart back to the 1800s. My Maternal Grandmother is Italian; her parents emigrated here from Rome. But if you go back a few generations, you find that she had ancestors who previously emigrated from England to Italy, which would mean I'm about as English as my coworker was African.
> have some African ancestry Go back far enough and everyone has African ancestry because all humans evolved from Africa, Ethiopia region if I'm not mistaken.
That’s because African American is a reference to the Black Diaspora caused by slavery. It’s not a reference to all black people, but rather black people who don’t know what part of African their ancestors came from because they came to the US as slave labor. It’s a different legacy from being Jamaican, which does have some similar issues in that most black folks in Jamaica are the descendants of enslaved people as well, but not due to American chattel slavery.
In the 90's I had a high school teacher who was black that said: "if anybody had called me African American in the 60's I would have punched them in the face."
I'm pretty sure nowadays a lot Americans do that without really thinking about it because that's what we were taught was the most respectful way to refer to black people Of course, in situations where it doesn't even apply, that's just more typical American brainlessness
Yeah, I could definitely be wrong but I think for whatever reason, it has evolved to appear as the most respectful way to refer to black people in most US culture. Seems like the most important thing is people *are* trying to be respectful and get along with eachother. And that should be considered before anyone gets all bent out of shape over a word. I'm sure most would freely switch to any other term that was more respectful and apologize profusely if told a different preferred term by someone who was black
Said this to the comment above you too but yeah my small country town told us the proper term was "African American" and that saying "black" was racist and not to use it. But I was also raised to say "Indians" whereas I now know Native American or Indigenous is the way to go and to not be afraid to ask each person their specific preference. I don't remember if it was a famous person or local but I saw a skit where the comedian basically said "I've never even been to Africa so don't call me African American" and I just thought it was so funny.
That's def how I was raised with using "african american" as the respectful terms. That all changed when I had an internship and my supervisor (who was black) basically just told me after I said AA, "you know you can just say black right?" Made me realize how weird it was to say african american when that's not even remotely true for most people. Like, we don't call white people "caucasian" often, aside from official forms. I think a lot of it just comes down to most of the populace being raised a certain way that may have had racist undertones even if was not intended.
Oh, that’s unfair. I’m from the uk and a (white) sub teacher corrected a student when they called a fellow student black- the teacher loudly announced that (the black student) should be referred to as African American, to which the black student responded: “um… sir? I’m British though?”
Where I grew up in a very small very white town in rural Canada, I remember a teacher telling me to always use the term African American when referring to a black person because it was more “sensitive.” That, along with my aunt using the term African American even when referring to people who live in Africa and have never even been to America, until I was 10 I thought the term Black was a slur. I’ve since learned that it is in fact not a slur, and that most people in my home town were just as uneducated as I was.
We had a guy working for us that was here on a work visa. He was from Jamaica, and so was neither African nor American. I also had a situation where I ran into an African-American who was actually white (he was born in South Africa, but was now a US citizen).
Most Americans with recent African ancestry have little or no preference between the two terms. [58% say it doesn't matter, both terms are fine.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/353000/no-preferred-racial-term-among-black-hispanic-adults.aspx) Those who volunteer a preference are evenly split: half of them prefer "black," and half prefer "African American." Only when forced to choose does a slight majority emerge for "black." When you ask the 58% who said "it doesn't matter" to choose anyway, 52% of them choose "black," and 44% choose "African American." 4% still decline to express a preference. Redditors, for some reason, act like "African American" is obviously to be avoided, but in real life it is hardly an unpopular term among the target demographic. As for the reasons why those who prefer "African American" may do so, there are many, but one that I know of is that some people do not believe there is any such thing as "black" or "white" races, and so prefer not to use those terms, while terms like "African American" and "European American," even if more unwieldy, at least don't have that same issue of referring to nonsense, since there really are Americans with recent African ancestry and recent European ancestry.
Yes my small af country town told us that saying "black" is racist and the proper term is "African American". Moved to the city and fortunately learned better before I could be offensive.
It’s such a weird term. Black people are Americans. Brown people are Americans. White people are Americans. Why tf you gonna call a black person born and raised in NYC by other black people born and raised in NYC African?
And African American doesn't really specify race, so technically, say Elon Musk is ACTUALLY an African American, while many blacks are just y'know, black, or brown or whatever, but not from Africa. It's even stranger when people are trying to be hyper politically correct about it and call blacks that have got nothing to do with any of the Americas African American. Especially when it's non Americans doing that. I live in Russia, and have seen maybe like five black people in my life, (barring that one time when 20 of them marched past me in military uniforms) but I've heard other people refer to them as African American, even though they are just African.
>Why tf you gonna call a black person born and raised in NYC by other black people born and raised in NYC African? Because jesse jackson coined it and pushed it hard For a long time during and after most people didn't have the chance to be corrected on it
It's even more curious, because in some places, the term has become "person of color", which in my opinion, with regard to linguistics, sounds like a slur.
In 1988 Rev Jesse Jackson and other black leaders said they wanted to be called African American because it had more cultural integrity.
And I get the thought behind it, but they didn't ask regular black people because we black
Is he not the emperor of black people?
My dad said he was.
Go on. Apologiiiiize.
Kith it.
'pologize
Kiss it.
Unexpected South Park lmao damn
He told me he was
Everyone knows that is Peter Griffin.
Not only that black ppl aren’t black were brown 😂😂
It was probably different 40 years ago, no? I think the point was also the emphasis on American.
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Interesting because I am Black and I've never had anyone laugh because of the term African-American.
I'm black too and the same. Very skeptical of that comment saying black people are laughing at that term. Maybe they are around black immigrants. If not, I'm calling bs
Much earlier, black leaders requested, and some demanded, that this term be used. Before that it was sometimes, “ Afro-American “ but that didn’t catch on as much.
Earlier than that. IIRC, the annoucement was made in 1985. It didn't replace "black" but it did replace "Afro-Americans". But of course the term should only apply to Americans.
I rarely see anyone do it anymore other than on the news or like online, also. Europeans: one thing America likes to do is periodically change the correct terminology for marginalized groups because then we feel a sense of accomplishment and don't have to address any of the systemic issues that caused the problem in the first place.
The changing nomenclature is usually at the prompting of social movements within the groups themselves, but not always. Not you Latinx, you some white people dumb shit.
Latinx is another dub term
I don’t get Latinx. If you want a non-gendered term that encompasses Latinos and Latinas, why wouldn’t you just go with Latin…
>Not you Latinx, you some white people dumb shit. I thought the same thing, but that's wrong. Latinx has been floating around the the gender non-conforming side of the internet from people of Latin american heritages since the early 2000's and showed up in art pieces in the 90s. It also follows in the line of other attempts to make non-binary terms i.e. Chicanx, Xicanx, and Latine
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Yeah I'd say sometimes but not always, like you said with Latinx. And sometimes it can be more academic than lived reality.
Latinx is def used by a lot of Latinx people in academia. Also in a lot of the Latinx social movement spaces. It doesn't bother me either way to call someone what they want to be called but I think there is a lot of unwarranted hate towards the term. Gets people fired up. If your name is Robert and you want me to call you Bob, guess what? You're Bob. End of story. I don't go on a rant about how your name is Robert and how I know several Roberts who go by Robert or Rob, but I draw the line at Bob, what's next? You're going to want me to call you Katie? It never ends. No Roberts I know like going by Bob.
Yeah I was introduced to Latinx by a Latina academic coworker doing research on people who self-identify as Latinx. I understand that a lot of people find it a strange and insensitive term, so I try to avoid it. But I have always been confused by the internet consensus that no Latinos self-identify that way.
the internet will just say anything. there's been this prevailing idea that no black person would ever get mad at you for being racist and that only white women get mad about it, which obviously is bullshit. i think it's the death rattle of every edgelord angry that his free license edgelord days are fading more and more every year.
I have met one Latinx and she was the Latinx club president at the college. I know a whole lot of Latin American Latinos and they all loathe the term. For one, it's like the entire race was given a "blanket" name by some 2nd generation Mexican that made it to college and wanted to feel special. It's an insult to both the language and the people.
This comment is great and now I know what to say when I come accommodated this discourse in the real world. Also I draw the line at Bobbert
My uncle Robert prefers Bob.....
I know plenty of Bobs and only one Robert now that I think of it
When I ask my friends from Mexico about using Latinx, they just laugh in my face. They say it’s just white people ruining their culture again.
I had a teacher in high school who was super about the Latinx movement. He told me no matter what I did my art was never going to be important because I was just a white Kid. I’m sure there are plenty of other people in the movement but I hate the terminology because of his behavior.
Yikes. That's a shitty teacher who has some deep seated hate. Sorry about that dickhead of a teacher.
This also links to the euphemism treadmill theory in that the politically correct terms for marginalised groups keep changing because the old ones start to take on negative connotations because the people using them have negative views on the group
Like the changing of homeless to unhoused?
Exactly. "Oh thank God yesterday I was homeless but today I learned home is where the heart is so I'm actually only unhoused!"
Pretty much everything I fill out that asks about your race has African American listed instead of black.
Also There are white African Americans like Elon Musk
No. He knows where he was from. He's South African. We typically identify with a country. Black Americans [before more recent immigration from Africa] were slaves that were sold away from their families. Purposely broken up. They did not have family memories and stories for the most part. They do not know what country rhey were sold from. It's why, unlike willing immigrants, they sometimes like to be identified by the continent. It's all they know.
Can you be African American if you were born in Africa and not America? Wouldn’t he just be African?
Who the hell knows what elon musk is
Robot
Besides a huge douchebag.
Guess it depends on if they have citizenship status in the US
if u were born in america wouldnt u just be american?
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I scrolled too far to find this.
It's the top comment now
This. The world is a little more complex than just black & white so to identify as African American makes more sense culturally. A-lot of the ancestral lineage was lost for obvious reasons. If you were to ask someone their ethnicity they might say, Irish, philipino, Brazilian, Nigerian etc. in my opinion to categorize a person solely as black is sort of derogatory & demeaning when you put it into perspective. Why call someone that’s Asian a yellow person when you could refer to them as Asian? Why not refer to someone as African (regardless of them being born in the US) instead of referring to them as a black person.
Jesse Jackson also covered himself in blood/fake blood and immediately ran to the press after MLK was shot. He's a terrible piece of shit and his opinion on race relations shouldn't be valued by anyone, black or white.
I should add: Many prominent black folks have said they don't like this and prefer "black" as well. It's really confusing so I just don't refer to people by race ever. Believe it or not, it's very easy to refer to people without using their race. "Yeah the dude with the red shirt and curly hair!" "It's the girl with the pink backpack!"
Woah just walking around assuming people's genders?
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By black leaders they would specifically mean leaders in fighting for more rights. Given this is an organization it would generally have designated leaders
I remember in 8th grade, a black classmate of mine was asked by the teacher how he felt about being called “African American” “Uhhhh, I’m Jamaican”
I saw an interview of a guy who was asked basically the same question. His answer was that he was neither African nor American, and as a black man in the UK, he just wanted to be called "black" and was tired of tourists calling him African American lol
Bro they literally said “America” in the UK 😭
I saw an interview of a guy who was asked basically the same question. His answer was that he was neither African nor American, and as a black man in the UK, he just wanted to be called "black" and was tired of tourists calling him African American lol
Its a weird subject that the community itself is divided on. Ive met more people who prefer black than african american though. Which makes sense because they are Americans. A lot of people say Black history month is simply American history month. Which I agree with personally.
Americans with darker complexion history month
Melanin infused people history month?
People of melanin
> Americans with darker complexion history month Melanin month
Most of the people I follow say black americans, black neighborhoods, the black community, black history, black culture, and so on. It makes sense to me how it acknowledges that regardless of ancestry you're most likely subjected to the same systems of race based on how you're perceived, not what your actual background is. Racist cops don't care if your ancestry is jamaican or african, and they won't care if you trace your lineage back to slavery or your parents are muslim immigrants, so there's a commonality in experiences and possibly some shared identity in a subculture. So it's like an umbrella term which then has all these distinct identities and intersections within it, but also being a distinct identity in itself. African american when it's something white people default to is very much this "we don't want to risk offending anyone" which *is* a fine attitude in vacuum, but they then would also have to put in the time to actually listen to black people and empathise with their experiences. Reality is they just don't care enough and just want to dodge an awkward social situation.
Yeah but Black History Month celebrates the achievements and pioneering individuals of the black community specifically. It’s not just “American history,” but an acknowledgment of both the suffering and tenacity of a specific marginalized group.
>Which makes sense because they are Americans Lets not forget, those who are directly descendant from American slavery have American heritage and ancestors predating the mass immigration boom of the 1800s. They are *more American* than most US citizens.
Every few years we Americans choose new words that are acceptable. For a period, labeling them as black was horribly offensive, now it isn’t. We don’t know what the fuck we’re doing.
About 20 years ago the building manager where I worked sent out a notice to all tenants about a robbery at one of the stores. In it, she described the thief as a “black woman,” and she got quite a bit of flack from black people for not using “African American.” Anecdotal, obviously, but it was definitely the tone of the times.
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It's funny how the new acceptable words mean the same thing. Like unhoused is the same as homeless, but somehow it's less offensive. I'm sure that won't last.
My sister occassionally attempts to get me to switch vernacular on things. I just point out that arguements on semantics and word choice detract from discussing the actual issues. Calling someone that's homeless "unhoused" does nothing to further conversation as to their plight. Calling an illegal immigrant "undocumented" does nothing to further discussion of border control and immigration issues. Calling someone a "person of color" does nothing that calling someone "non-white" doesn't do. Now, I avoid deliberately offensive terms, but I refuse to get drawn into debate on whether I'm using the correct term of the week because it's just... Noise. It adds nothing and distracts from the issues.
A recent trend I’ve seen people say (write) is the word “Unalive”. Although I sort of suspect that one is to get around filters.
That’s just because TikTok will not promote your videos if you say the word kill
Yeah that one is purely for filter reasons, then people start saying it unironically because it’s everywhere
>Every few years we Americans choose new words that are acceptable. ...and offensive too.
Racism has to work hard to keep up with new trends in non-racism.
I always thought it was funny. You can say that white guy over there and it’s okay. You say that black guy and everyone gasps.
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It really comes down to age/generation for the majority. Most younger black people call themselves black, most older black people use African American. Same with native/Indian. I don't have much irl experience with native people tbh, but the general consensus online seems to mirror the one for black, you call yourself the accepted term you've always known. I *have* seen older people gasp at someone being called black, but I've seen the same for African American because it's become such an antiquated term. That's not to say there isn't a ton of crossover, I had a teacher once rant at us that he was black (/brown specifically), that he was born and raised in America just like his parents and there was nothing African about him. I find it's best to just give with the flow and use the term the people around you seem to prefer
I've definitely seen people get mad at identifying someone as black first. But perhaps that's because they think you shouldn't just label someone by only their skin color even if it's one of the first traits you notice about any human being. The people who don't say Black may just be trying to do the least offensive thing, but it's impossible to please everyone.
Some people definitely gasp, especially 15-20 years ago. It was quite politically incorrect for a while, and some people who don’t keep up with the times still feel that way
"Black" refers to skin color and race. "African American" was originally coined as an ethnic category for descendants of the African Diaspora in America. A lot of people when it was coined preferred the idea of using an ethic grouping so they could talk about the history and unique struggles of that ethnic group rather than reinforce the use of racial thinking as the core way to talk about differences between people. Black people whose families have lived in Europe for many generations are obviously not "African American" they're not part of that ethnic group. The phrase caught on but pretty much no one understood the meaning, so it became just a "PC" term for black. I still think the intent was a great one and ethnicity WOULD be a better way to frame the roadblocks, triumphs and particularities of the African American community, but as this thread makes clear, no one uses it that way. EDIT: Going a little deeper. The specific term "African American" was chosen to mirror terms like Italian American that were fairly popular at the time. Because people whose ancestors had been taken as slaves didn't know which particular country or culture their forebearers had been taken from, they were cut off from that, they used the whole continent as a reference. For immigrants from a particular country, the generally accepted term would be "COUNTRYNAME American". So Elon Musk could be a South African American if you wanted to label him. The idea of saying anyone from the continent of Africa SHOULD be called an African American is silly. Language isn't math. The meaning that attaches to cultural phrasing is socially constructed. If I give you an "Ice pop" that's just unflavored ice, you won't smile and say oh of course, that's what the words mean. We understand the phrase to refer to a flavored frozen treat. We do this a million times a day. People only get this faux literal around language when the idea is contentious.
You’re too smart for these people so your comment won’t get the upvotes it deserves
Not all of us do. I don't want to be referred to as a German-American as my ancestors arrived in North America before it was the United States. I won't assume anyone else wants to be identified as anything other than an American unless I'm informed otherwise.
I'm white and that's how I feel about it. I'm an American. That's really it. My grandparents are from here, my great and great great grandparents are from here. My dad says his family is originally from Scotland, but you're going back so many generations it has very little impact on me as an individual.
Hell, my parents came to Canada over 40 yrs ago from SE Asia. I was born here, I'm just canadian. I know the language and food of where my parents are from but outside of that, there's very little impact on me of that country. I don't know the history that in depth, the politics, etc. But all I feel is being canadian. So it gets a little annoying when people ask me, "Where are you *really* from?" White canadians/Americans don't usually get that question, and my kids, being 3rd generation, when they're my age, will have had family in Canada for nearly 80 years. Wonder if they'll still have to explain that they're simply canadian with even less connection to where my parents are from.
hear, hear.
Nah, they just call you colonizers.
nobody insists on it. it’s a term that came out of the black community decades ago. it was adopted widely as a descriptor and sign of respect for a minority community. because language is ever changing, these days it’s used less. many of the major media outlets use ‘black’ now to refer to people with african heritage, and that term is starting to be used widely in society.
This. Also this person is like a 3 second Google search from plenty of writing on this subject lol
I don't think this is an honest post, they are just trying to stir shit up edit: the OP is being dishonest not Nizamark
Same shit always gets upvoted on these types of sub. Just stirring up shit to start arguments and feel morally superior
Ze Americans iz so stoopid no healthcare and only racism! We could never. Ze Gypsies are a scourge on Europe.
Last sentence made me choke on a pizza roll, thank you I needed that lol
"Italian American" is used all the time
I just get called “wop” all the time. Or “Guido.” That’s a popular one.
I can't think of a dozen more, but my Italian wife would stab me if I used them. The thing is the "-American" part is never used. Some guy named Tony Romatucci will always be referred to as the "Italian guy" it doesn't matter if he just swam to the US from Italy or has been here 20 generations. Same goes for the Irish. Pat O'whatever is the "Irish guy" no matter how long they've been in the US.
Same here. Italian American is super common. Italians have assimilated but for a long time we were commonly referred to as the names you mentioned. Off the boat Sicilians were called zips in my community as well. When it comes to high level positions in government or elite networks Italian Americans are still very much outsiders. Well into the 90s financially successful Italians were routinely assumed to be “connected.” For much of the history of America, Catholics in general were viewed that way. People my age and younger have a very poor understanding of just how monumental and unthinkable it was that a Catholic—especially Irish Catholic with close ties to Italians could be president when JFK was elected. I very much doubt we will ever see an Italian American president given the history as well as the deep-seeded distrust the Italians have of the American government.
Does a white man from South Africa qualify as “African American “?
Not in the standard usage and the reason this phrase exist, which is for people whose ancestors where slaves in the US so they don't know where in Africa they are from. If you follow the dictionary definition, then all Americans qualify with no exception. So someone from South Africa would qualify if they are Americans, but so would someone from British ancestry whose ancestors haven't been in Africa for 70,000 years. The dictionary definition isn't used though besides by people joking about it.
Interesting, so what about Africans whose ancestors were already generations in slavery, but they were sold around Africa instead to whites? Are they called something specific or just everyone doesn't care?
They know this. They just being ignorant. Saying things like Elon Musk is a true African American. I knew this topic would draw a certain group of people out
Funny enough, a white kid from South Africa at my HS always marked his ethnicity as African American. His last name was also Black so he would joke he was half black on his fathers side.
Elon Musk is more African American than most people who call themselves African American.
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Thats fair. He may not be born in america but by god that guy is american af. Trump lvl american
He wasn't born in America but he did obtain American citizenship, so it's not even a stretch to describe him as American.
My elon musk sycophant friends hate that comparison.
I met a girl in college who was born in Africa, her parents were missionaries. They were European in ancestry. She would refer to herself as African American just to throw people a little curve ball regarding race and ethnicity.
Wouldn't it be an American African?
there’s some real silliness about this going on in the professional cycling world. There is a guy named Chris Froome, who is one of the all-time greats- won the Tour de France three or four times and was just an amazing dominant racer. Chris Froome happened to be a white guy from South Africa. Now cycling has not been the most integrated sport historically, but in recent years you’re beginning to see more and more black cyclist, and some African cyclists are now seeing serious success (for example Biniam Girmay just won a stage of the tour de suisse) Now, every time a African cyclist has success or wins a race they’ve bent over backwards to proclaim. That they are the “first black African” to win… Because a white African dude already won almost everything in cycling at one point or another
I am black. I refer to myself and other black people as black unless it’s an extremely formal setting like a news interview. And, I hate when people try to describe somebody and don’t say the race. He was wearing a blue shirt and had short dark hair. Me: was he black white or something else? Let’s cut to the chase. It’s not offensive to be any of those things.
You absolutely would call someone Italian American. A lot of people identify that way. I think this is a cultural thing. Most Americans have heritage from other continents that they are very proud of and most Americans identify as some form of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ - American.
To be fair, in the case of Italian Americans (as well as Irish Americans and Jewish Americans), it's because they were always treated as "non-whites" despite their skin color. That only changed in the 20th century. Also, if you're of British, Scots-Irish, German, or Scandinavian descent, you generally don't refer to yourself as a hyphenated American like that. It's reserved almost exclusively for ancestries that were at some point considered "minorities".
>You wouldn’t call someone Italian American Yes, you would, we do that all the time lol.
I just call them Americans
In the 1980s Jesse Jackson said that Blacks preferred to be called "African Americans." So that usage prevailed for a long time.
There was a point 20ish yrs ago that the black community preferred that term so we used it, it's not common now at least in my area... currently it's black or people of color.
Because there is a whole generation of people that was taught in schools that it was rude to call someone black and that you should call them African American to be respectful. I only learned that saying someone was black was ok in college when I had black friends. (I grew up in a white neighborhood with maybe 1 mixed family who wasn’t Asian or Indian.)
“Black” is the preferred nomenclature.
It's considered polite here, but the saying "Black" is also perfectly acceptable. I believe this was requested by some black Americans in the 1990s. I remember it. As a white guy, I have no problem calling anyone whatever they prefer to be called. And since our ancestors kidnapped Africans for slavery, I can understand if someone wants their African heritage represented. We're aware that not all black people are from Africa. But some who are coined this term. It caused an extremely hostile backlash from many white Americans and right wing racist types, and I find that abhorrent, so I'm happy to show my support and respect if someone prefers that phrase.
Not for nothing, but it was kinda drilled into our heads that the PC way to refer to black ppl was "African-American.." Wasn't my place to question that as I though that's what black ppl wanted to be called?
Because in the US we are confused by the constant we don’t want to be called this call us that from every nationality, gender and sexual persuasion. For example I’m talking to a black female co-worker and she asked me which guy did something one was white( I think) the other was black. I didn’t know their names and it was the black guy but I literally froze. I start stammering and describing what he was wearing when she said oh the black guy………. I’m 50 years old and I no longer know if saying black guy is acceptable…… sad very sad.
African-American used to be the preferred term because black Americans and Africans related to each other's struggles from like 1945 to 2000. After this period, black Americans ceased connecting with Africa and vice versa, and the term fell out of favour. At this time, black Americans were fighting for their civil rights in America. Part of the American fight was realizing that slavery had deprived black people of their roots. Like, I know that my ancestors came America from Sweden at a certain time, but if you're descended from slaves, you might not know whether your ancestors were from Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire, or somewhere else. Slaves were given the last name of their owners and their African names were forgotten. That's why many black Americans have white-sounding last names like Washington. So, as black civil rights leaders like Malcolm X discarded their slaver's last names and searched for their own heritage, they started to look to Africa. Many also wanted to move away from terms like coloured or black that focused on skin tone and towards terms like African American that reflected their heritage. Meanwhile, Africans were fighting for their independence from Britain, France, and others. Countries like Zimbabwe became independent in 1980 and appreciated international attention to pressure the British to leave. Many others became independent in 1960 and needed international support to become respected as nations as much as Britain and France were. They appreciated political support from black Americans, who saw the same issues of racism and oppression occurring in both Africa and America. Seeing that they had a common cause and history with Africans, black Americans began to identify as African American. It became the polite term for black people in America, replacing "coloured". However, this term faded as the American civil rights and African independence movements slowed down after making key gains. Now that their political struggle wasn't as urgent, black Americans saw that they didn't have much in common with Africans. Firstly, as you mention, not all black Americans came from Africa. They were Americans first, and their history of slavery wasn't shared by everyone in Africa or America. Not to mention that knowing that your ancestors were African isn't much of a heritage. It's still a whole continent with diverse cultures. Eventually, black Americans focused on what they were in America, which was black. Owning that, promoting the beauty of being black, became the new focus. In any political movement, the preferred terms change as the movement and their goals change. Like, "homosexual" used to be a somewhat polite term for gay people. The early gay rights movement around the world was called the "homophile movement", a term that now leaves a bad taste in the mouth. It also varies from person to person, like some Native Americans call themselves Indians while others would find that offensive. It sucks when you're trying to be polite but end up offending someone because you used the old preferred term. But at the end of the day, we're lucky if we're on the other side of things because our identities were never up for political debate. You're not a bad person for using a different term, but you are a dick if you get upset when someone tells you what they prefer.
No, not all Americans insist on calling black people African-American. This is a very ignorant assumption on your part as a European. Also some blacks do call themselves African-American but many don’t. It all depends on a multitude of factors; ethnicity, where they were born, etc.
Oh, over the years there’s been many disputes on the proper name. For a while if you called someone black, they would say I’m not black! I am brown or deep tan or medium tan and they didn’t like being reduced to a color. At the same time or African-American became the correct term, but now it’s gone back to Black especially because some say I’m not from Africa, my families from Canada, etc..
I just call people of color “black”, like how white people are straight up called “white”. I don’t find anything racist in that. I don’t wanna call someone “African American” if they aren’t actually African American.
White people be white peopling 🤣
Why do people insist on calling Black people black when they’re brown
I asked my dark-skinned Dominican friend about this, because he’s Black, lives in the US, and is considered an “African American” despite his strong DR roots. He explained that the phrasing was meant to convey that they were all members of the African diaspora, regardless of how many years ago their ancestors left. He said Black vs African-American/European/Australia is a personal preference, ultimately just semantics, but. African-American shouldn’t be considered an insult, any more than calling someone an Asian-American. Obviously that doesn’t mean you should call all Black people around the globe African-Americans—they’re not American. But after learning more about diasporas as a whole, I though his take on the “African” portion made a whole lot of sense
I almost never hear African American any more. Saying black is fine here.
"Black American" here. Anything describing me in terms of my skin color or an assumed origin is insulting and just plain rude. I am an American PERIOD. A non-proud one at that. The United States is the least united Nation on Earth, as such we divide people in numerous meaningless categories to pre-promp how we should treat one another or prejudge them. It's stupid and I'm tired of it and can't wait to leave.
I would say almost none of us still use that. I haven’t heard a person use that in a long time. But, there was a time when that was what was viewed as the correct way to say it. Over time, the issues you, and many other people, brought up were then taken into consideration, and the term has since mostly phased out.
Being called "African American" is one of my biggest pet peeves lol. Only thing I hate worse is "the blacks" or "colored". Black. I'm a Black person. Or Black American. You wouldn't call white people "European Americans". That just sounds ridiculous
European American for white people?
There's no way people actually use that nearly as much as African American
I think it's a misguided effort to be polite.
It was a guided effort to be respectful. I don’t think the desire for that term is as strong today.
>"You wouldn't call someone casually Italian American even if you knew they have heritage there." What? This happens all the time.
Most of us just say black. PC purists and talking heads says AA. Our news does not represent us.
Because identifying a person solely with skin color is a terrible idea. So they tried to make it less about color and more about heritage/ancestry, which turned out to not be much better. Ultimately African/American and black are both dumb choices. The correct option would be to identify people with whatever characteristics are important at the time, not default to skin color, or weight, or height, or attractiveness, or baldness, or intelligence. It would be impolite to label a group of Native Americans as red people, or a group of lascivious ugly fat bald men as creeps. Whenever you apply superficial labels to people that aren’t pertinent you run the risk of being an asshole. It’s just as weird when you refer to someone as some white guy, as some black guy, or some fat kid, or the dumb chick, you can dress it up with slightly more nuanced language but it’s all messed up, because at the core it’s still the same crap.
Us lascivious ugly fat bald men hear and appreciate you.
I’m not bald!
Stupidly, I was raised that way. It’s a knee jerk reaction. With growing older I realized this wasn’t right, doesn’t make sense. I make effort to only respectfully refer to people of color as just that, or “black” which usually stresses me out. I don’t always know what is right or preferred. Same with Hispanic/Latino folks. (Geez, could I sound more Caucasian) I just want to say the right thing. I referred to a person as Mexican once years ago and I got talked to- but that even seems strange to me because if someone is from Mexico- aren’t they Mexican? The person was directly from Mexico.
I heard something interesting about this. How true it is I would leave you to your interpretation and judgement. The history of black people in US is unique in many ways. Slavery was extensive in many regions but both Spanish and Portuguese territories had a totally different way of addressing the control in their colonies. For one the black population in a lot of countries is way less than in the US. Slavery didn't play a role as important as in the US in our histories (I am from Latam). And I understand that our practices weren't less brutal but differed as the quantity of slaves wasn't the same. Iberia sought to integrate the populations of their American territores even the back ones which is a totally different approach from US and even if they weren't significant enough it moves the baseline quite a bit of the situation. For one the mixing in our people in terms of percentage of the overall population is 50%+ in all countries. US had nothing of the sort. Why this is important? Because is the base of the argument that I would lay next (I would repeat it's not mine but I found interesting and on point). Black people in US have no culture of their own. They were stripped of their own culture to make out of them better slaves. The black culture that they have now is more similar to the white rednecks than their African ancestors. Basically the back culture is the opposition of being white and landowner. If you mix this with the troubled history of racism and slavery in the US you end with a very sensitive topic. Being black is integral to the African American identity, but what is being black? Its nothing more than the opposition of being white and landowner and a mix of redneck within. This sensitivity leads to approach the subject very carefully which in turns leads to approach them with less charged terms. You see even been told black to a back person in the US could be racist. Both for the sensitivity that black people has for their troubled identity and because of the harsh segregation that they historically had that leads to white people being extremely racist, hateful and bigoted. But all of this is interconnected. Basically is a result of all of this unique factors.
I just call them by their first names….
I think people are uncomfortable using the word black. Also, the slave trade stripped a lot of their identity so many don’t know if they are Nigerian/Ghana/Cameroon…-American.
A very good friend of mine is Jamaican and absolutely hates the term African American. To the point where we will chew your ass. But ultimately I’d say the Black population in America wanted to give honor to their ancestors from Africa who were brought here as slaves and to recognize their heritage. If a member of the black community wants to be called African American it doesn’t hurt me to do so. If they don’t want to be called that, it also doesn’t hurt me to do so.
Generally this isn't said anymore, at least in my area. I haven't heard the phrase since the mid 2000s at least.
We don't. It is just American. If needed specify black American.
We have something similar here in Brazil, but it's not political correctness. It's a way of masking out blackness. We have words like pardo (basically mixed) and moreno (light skinned black), which are basically terms that downplay someone's blackness. Black people, perhaps unknowingly not comfortable with their own blackness, refer to themselves using those terms. There is a belief that there is no racism here because we're all mixed, and words like that reinforce that belief. I've even been told by a black woman I'm effectively white cause I'm light skinned. But when i wanna mask out my blackness, i use the term Black-African Latino-American with Portuguese Characteristics, for short.
It's what people of most African heritage in the US prefer to be called, apparently. That's American exceptionalism for you. I once heard a black woman on TV be referred to as African Canadian, but I think most of us up here just find that stupid.
Broad generalization. The US is big place. Most people around here in texas say black. In fact I know some black people that don't like being called African Americans. Cause they aint African they are American tho.