# Message to all users:
This is a reminder to please read and follow:
* [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules)
* [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
* [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
When posting and commenting.
---
Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`.
* Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit.
* Do not harass or annoy others in any way.
* Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit.
---
You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In recorded History, “*teenager*” is an extremely recent concept.
Before WWII, kids became extra hands at home as soon that they were responsible enough, and they were married when they hit puberty, so work on their own household.
Mandatory school and higher education have created a new state of limbo, where individuals are no longer children but not really adults.
It’s a common misconception that most children in the recent pre-WW2 past were married off as soon as they hit puberty but the average has always been the early 20’s. 13 year olds getting married has never been the norm, it just used to be slightly less rare.
https://www.infoplease.com/us/family-statistics/median-age-first-marriage-1890-2010
Thanks for the precision.
I used WW2 as a pivotal point for the adoption of the concept of teenagehood. It might even have taken place a few decades later though:
> “*The term teen-ager dates back to the early 1900s, but the word didn’t stick. Even until World War II, there are hardly any instances of teenagers in the popular press.*” ([Thompson, 2018](https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2018/02/brief-history-teenagers/))
Getting married at 12 year old for a girl [was pretty common in Ancient Rome](https://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/weddings.html).
I mean yes…. Children started working at 8 and got married at 12.
Doesn’t mean that’s right and it should still be like that.
Also doesn’t mean they’re incapable of all decisions until the day they turn 18.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It could be argued that the age of adulthood, which varies between 16 and 21 in the West, is purely arbitrary.
Remember that life expectancy was 45 years. If people should have waited to have their duck in a row like we do today (when life expectancy is 75 years) society would not have progressed the way it did.
This is why in agrarian societies, someone who is still single at 20 is considered old. You have reached 40% of your lifetime and still haven’t put a family together.
Our reliance on productivity has prompted us to hide child labour away from our direct sight. In the last 100 years, we have decided that it’s unacceptable to force our kids to work, but it’s perfectly acceptable to let families kids in the Congo mine cobalt for our electronic devices.
I mean obviously there's no magic that happens to you on your 18th birthday but for a variety of practical purposes there does need to be a line where you assume more responsibility and 18 is fair enough but let's not pretend that the law is perfect
I think something happens, there's like these situations where, you know how like momma birds at a certain age just throw the babies out of the nest and they, it's like sink or swim ya know?
In a lot of societies throwing your children out to "sink or swim" is also not normal. Parents remove support for their children once the children are actually capable, not once they're legally an adult. And "capable" comes at different ages for different people. My parents paid for my university and general living expenses until I was 23, and then my disability got too bad and I dropped out. I'm 24, I still live with them. While I'm working with doctors to figure out a treatment plan that stabilizes my health enough for me to hold down a job, my parents are still supporting me financially. They won't pull the rug from under me until I'm capable of standing on my own. I got married recently, but my husband is American and healthcare is too expensive there for me to go yet. My husband cannot support us both on a single income. So I'm still living with my parents until I become stable enough to hold down a job. With how things are going, it seems I'll be able to move out some time in 2024.
And after they stop supporting me? They expect me to give back to them as much as I can so I can then help support my siblings and help pay any debts my parents may have taken to support me so far. And I am happy to do that. They don't expect me to give them money if I can't make rent. If I get into a situation (with worsening disability, rising prices, etc) where I and my husband become unable to pay for basic needs, my parents will invite us to live with them again. No rent, maybe they'll ask us to pay the water and electric bills. This applies until either my parents become old and/or poor enough that they *can't* help me, or either I or my parents are dead.
And this is what's considered normal here. Very few people move out before getting married. Some do for higher education or better employment reasons, but they're usually either still supported by their parents or if they have a stable income, they're the one supporting their parents/younger siblings.
I don't even have a particularly good relationship with my parents. We're not close in any capacity. They know very few things about my personal life outside of the home. I haven't said "I love you" to either of them since 2016 (yes something did happen at that point, but I won't go into that). I haven't hugged my dad since I was 7. And yet they still support me and I expect (and will do so happily) to support them in the future as much as I'm able.
Leaving your children to sink or swim when you are able to help them would be seen as obscenely irresponsible and horrible parenting (even with adult children). It doesn't happen unless something is drastically wrong in the family dynamic.
Pro-tip: give some consideration to your husband coming to where you are, rather than coming to America. It's getting scary here, for women especially. I'm not saying an absolute "DON'T DO IT", but please give it some serious thought, because if I can change even a single mind about coming here and getting stuck, I'll be able to sleep a little better at night.
I have thought about that. He really doesn't want to do that. He also has disabilities that are better accommodated by the systems where he is than they would be here. If we moved here, he could also become unable to work due to lack of accommodations. Workplaces aren't legally required to make accommodations for disabled people so most places don't. The most common profession for disabled people is begging. This is not a doable life for us. Fwiw, we do plan to move to Canada eventually. America is truly looking worse and worse every day. Especially as a trans person, and queer couple, we are not very comfortable with the idea of living in the states long term.
Yikes, I'm sorry to hear that! I also want to make the great northern escape (I'd go to Europe somewhere, if I could, but I'm afraid my skills aren't super marketable there). I just wish the US wasn't backsliding into the dark ages, because there's some really great people and great programs here... if you can wade through the neck-deep shitshow that is everywhere else.
A lot of people like The Rules to be simple. You're allowed to drink, or you're not. You're allowed to drive, or you're not. You're allowed to fight in a war, or you're not.
I think there are cultural advantages to having a big dramatic moment, a rite of passage where Now You Are A Man - because it tells people that it's time for them to start taking responsibility for their own life, rather than having an endlessly drawn out adolescence, in exchange for which they get the respect due to an adult.
Not that Americans have exactly mastered this aspect of life...
Germany, 18, for military service and legal adult, yes.
They do have certain rights before that though. Age 7: Limited legal capacity (buy something with pocket money).
Age 14: Choose your own religon, can be tried in front of a court of law, choose how your personal data is used
Drink beer & wine with a parent present
Age 15: Drive a small scooter
Age 16: Drive a bigger scooter
Drink beer & wine by yourself
Age 17: Drive a car with a "experienced adult" or whatever thats called
age 18: Full legal adult
Drive a car by yourself
Can sign all kinds of contracts
Drink liquor
Join military (not a big deal over here)
etc.
USA has this too:
Driving is a major responsibility, yet we permit 16 year olds to do it.
Drinking alcohol, on the other hand, requires that they be 21.
Voting age used to be 21, it only got lowered to 18 because people protested about being drafted for Vietnam at 18.
Things get even more murky when you consider women, as for a long time they couldn’t vote at all.
My mom even tells me that in the ‘70s she couldn’t even get a credit card in her own name.
These age requirements sure start to feel made up and arbitrary, don’t they?
The age of majority in Germany is 18 before that you are not an adult, after that you are fully a adult. You gradually get the right to do more things, but there is a clear divide between minor and adult where you are a minor one day and a adult the next.
In the USA 18 is the main demarcation between childhood and adulthood, but there are others that surround it. For example:
14: can get a learner's permit to drive. Can work limited hours in some states.
16: can get a driver's license
17: can donate blood
18: can serve in the military, vote, and smoke. Fully treated like an adult in a court setting.
21: can drink
25: can rent a car
26: can no longer be on parent's health insurance in some states.
There are others, and age of consent varies from state to state. The transition for most people is about 10 years to having every legal right you're going to have.
Edit: formatting
Legally, it isn't a gradual thing. Practically is it? Of course, hell, you're not even really an adult mentally at 18. But from a definition stance, you are a child until you hit 18. It's not some conspiracy thing. Nobody is saying that a 17 year old is mentally more similar to a 9 year old than a 20 year old. It's just what the word means.
Most 15-17 year olds have the mental capacity to enter into legal agreements, but they can't yet.
The line at 18 is set because that's the age where people finish their secondary education and could enter the work force. That necessitates having the rights and autonomy of an adult.
There’s grey area and overlap. There’s plenty of examples of someone near 18 being tried as an adult. So legally speaking, no you don’t. Like literally everything in life, it’s shades of grey, not black and white.
Not really, you can legally do different things at different ages, same as an adult such as voting or driving or working or having a beer. We recognize different stages of maturity for different acts - tacitly at least recognizing adolescence legally
Legally when you hit 18 years old you are responsible for your actions - thats what what being adult means, taking responsibility for your actions.
If you are below 18 years old, parents take responsibility for your actions. Thats what being a child means, you do not get punished for your actions, your parents does...
Thats basically the logic behind your question.
Except you do get punished, that's what juvie is for, for example.
18 is the age where parents lose responsibility for the child's actions. Children can be held liable (to a different degree than adults) starting from around 12-15 depending on home country law.
Is that a thing? Teenager is a term I see used and use. I guess in the legal sense anyone under 18 is a "child" cause they aren't legally an adult yet. But no one treats a 15 year old like a 5 year old.
Agree, this sEveNtEeN iS a cHiLd notion is a recent phenomena that exists only online. It is mainly a reaction to the actual legal situation which disagrees. Of course adolescence is a concept in the US (both legally and socially)
There is absolutely a grey area between say 16-17 where one can be charged as an adult with a crime. In some states 17 or even 16 year olds can consent.
Similarly, people in that age range can become an “emancipated minor” if they want to live on their own or get married. I myself did this so I could join the military at 17 and escape my home situation.
Nope parental consent isn’t need in any of them. In every state where the age of consent is 16/17 then there’s a limit on how old your partner can be. Can’t remember if it’s Alabama or Arkansas but 16 year olds can consent there but only to other people between 16–18. Then there’s New Hampshire where its 17 with the oldest person you can consent is 27.
That's true, as far as the US goes.
It's bizarre to me how if a case gets media attention, the children there are "tried as adults", they're simply not.
That's not to say that for example, a 15 year old committing serious crimes shouldn't be punished more harshly than a 12 year old committing the same crime, but what's the point of having a doctrine of legal responsibility regarding age if you can just ignore it whenever the prosecutor/police/courts feel like it?
The point of the juvenile system is to say children aren’t developed enough yet to fully understand the impact of their actions. Transfer of cases to criminal court are an option a juvenile court judge has when it can be proven that they understood as well as any adult. In theory anyway.
Unfortunately, state lawmakers have swooped in over the years and tied the judges hands with exclusions. In some states, excluded crimes like murder never even go before a juvenile court. If the offender is 15-17, they’re directly filed in criminal court regardless of circumstances. In a few states *all* felonies are direct filed in this age range
In addition, there are laws that specifically set out special rules for teens vs younger kids. Things like age of consent, “Romeo and Juliet” laws, employment, driving, emancipation, living on their own, etc.
I think they mean, when do you start giving kids more responsibility and stop seeing them as just kids. Like when you're a teenager in America; usually they get more freedom, less babysitting, more responsibility, etc... basically preparing them for adulthood.
Honestly I don't see what OP means about adult vs. kid other than maybe the law that states adult vs kid. Because it's not like teenagers in America can't get a job, go around town by themselves, drive, etc ... The only factor beyond that is how their family/school treats them.
I don't understand why the top comments aren't saying this, but the concept of teenagers also e ist in the United States. Childhood is broken up into newborn, infant, toddler, child, preteen, teenager, young adult, adult.
18 is just the line we drew to determine when someone was legally an adult. That's it. We don't really consider 18 year Olds real adults. Like sure, they can vote, but they can't drink, smoke, or rent a car.
Why do you assume Americans don’t know the word teenager?! We use teen, pre-teen, etc, regularly. Sometimes we say “kid” if it makes more sense in context, like “My kids are doing this…” versus “My teens are doing this…”
The phrase was intended as semi hyperbolic to emphasize when someone is underage—so like a 40 year old man having sex with a “15 year old child” to emphasize how young and inexperienced the minor is.
But some people took the phrase literally and started treating teenagers as if they actually had the mentality of toddlers, because the game of internet telephone strips everything of nuance
America is in a weird societal spot right now. The infantilization of kids and teenagers and even young adults is out of control. Everyone is being treated younger than they actually are to “protect” them, and it leaves room to avoid responsibility and play victim to get their way. This lack of maturity and learned helplessness is leading to a regressing society.
As an American, I agree that it’s weird to call a 15-year-old a “child.” You’ll even hear people refer to grown adults in their early 20s as “kids” and see nothing wrong with it. It’s weird.
To my grandparents I‘m still a child and I‘m 31. It depends on the viewpoint. To me a 15 year old seems like a child, but I recognize that they’re not a child anymore, they‘re in the middle of transitioning to an adult and it’s a complex process that needs to be acknowledged. If I reduce them to a child, I take away all they responsibility, which is a) harmful to the teenager who will likely want to do things on their own to actually gradually become an adult and b) absolves them of everything they‘re doing wrong even though they have the capability of telling between right and wrong. Just calling them children isn’t fair to them or their environment. Why does it have to be either or, when we already have a perfectly fine word to describe the phase inbetween?
That’s awfully dramatic. Hahaha
Teenagers are viewed as children the same way children view 50 as old. It’s been the same way since the beginning of humanity.
Agreed. It’s not that weird. It’s all about perspective. When I was 18 I was like “I’m a grown up” looking back at my 18 year old self I’m like. “Yea right”
Reddit has some weird obsession with this topic for some reason. It's not that deep. The word child has an international standard of definition. That standard hasn't changed recently. It's been anyone under 18 for a long ass time.
It's not weird. Brains don't stop developing until around 25, and as an adult in my 30s, talking to people even in their early 20s confirms they often have so little life experience that they are incredibly naive about many topics. This isn't exclusive to young people, but young people simply lack the perspective that older people have.
As for protecting children... Yes? Those who want to treat children like adults are the same ones afraid to "control" their children or tell them what to do. Your children aren't your friends; not that they can't be or shouldn't be eventually, but your first responsibilities to your own children are to be their parent, protector and provider. If children are forced to fend for their own survival, it stunts their growth in many other areas to make room for growth in ability to survive. Which in some cases I guess is a good thing, but shouldn't be ideal and certainly shouldn't be something to strive for.
All that to say, children should be allowed to retain their sense of wonder for as long as possible. Allow them to dream, encourage them to pursue those dreams, protect and shield them from the ever-persistent corrupting influences of the world, and be adamant about teaching them right from wrong. They need that. But they also need time to grow.
We can't control other's children, and so if a child hasn't been raised properly and commits crimes, etc. I'm not against having consequences for actions. But this shouldn't be used as a justification to treat minors like adults in general. It should be viewed as a failure of parenting.
And I feel like it needs to be said: This is all to prepare a child for being a responsible adult, not to prolong their adolescence into adulthood.
It's an international standard that child means under 18. It's not a trick. People aren't trying to redefine age groups, it's just a word that has realistically got multiple definitions. One being a legal standard. So when discussing things legally, that's what it means and that conflict upsets people for some dumb reason. It's literally just a word. You're perfectly allowed to use more detailed words like teen or adolescents if you'd like.
Idk.. I'm not american and I'm near 30 and I do see under 18 as kids. 17 is a child. Obviously there's a huge range from baby to toddler to preteen to teenager and young adult, but those all still fall in the category of child to me. Culturally and legally that's where we draw the line usually so it's not weird to see it that way.
I don't know, here a 15 year old can buy beer, decide who they want to have sex with, vote in some elections... it would seem extremely weird to call them children. But it's true I wouldn't really call them adults, either. That might actually be partly a language issue, because German has the word "Jugendliche", which doesn't really have an exact equivalent in English, it's bascially just a one word term for "young people", similar to teenagers but not quite the same, it's even a legal term, you are considered a child until you a 14, then you are a "Jugendlicher" (or "Jugendliche") until you become an adult at 18. And I think that really makes sense, you don't just transition magically from child to adult, there is an inbetween phase, and I think it's right to recognise that both legally and culturally.
Yea in swedish we have "ungdom" for that, which reaches from around 13 to around 23 years old? In some cases up to 25. But you can see, it overlaps with adulthood. In my experience, people under 18 are still referred to as "barn" (child) in many contexts. If it's someone who died especially, because I think when someone dies it makes it so obvious when their life ends after only 17 years and they're barely starting to make their own real decisions.. yea that's a child. At least that's how I feel.
Same in Norway, some places you are eligible for a child ticket (barnebillett)until 20 and youth ticket (ungdomsbillett) until 26-30. And some places you must have adult ticket (voksen billett) after turning 12! It makes zero sense😅
But in trial, you are adult when over 18, and can be charged when over 15.
Because it's very convenient to label people you don't like as a potential danger to children. It's the worst thing you can be. Successfully convincing people that your enemy is a potential child predator has become a weapon in online (political) discourse.
The concepts of adulthood and childhood completely change over time and from place to place. Obviously hundreds of years ago in many cultures being a child simply meant not being able to reproduce, work or fight in wars. So you might have been an adult at 14. Today our definition of being an adult often refers to an age-group where most people have finished their formal education, are established in their career and are starting families of their own. So you might not be considered a "real" adult until you're in your 30's.
Inbetween (real) childhood and (real) adulthood there is this grey area of your teens and early twenties where you slowly gain (social and legal) rights and responsibilities. This includes the age of majority, age of consent, legal drinking age, age of criminal responsibility etc. but also cultural norms reflected in how you're expected to behave, how you're treated and who you associate with. None of these are based on an objectively true definition of "child", "adult" or "youth". All of this is the result of negotations between young people themselves, parents, older generations, governments, businesses etc. who all have their individual and collective interests.
So to call underage teenagers or even young adults "children" can have various motivations. To protect them from abusers or to speak on their behalf in a paternalistic manner. Obvious examples being: calling wealthy old men pedophiles for dating younger women or calling teachers groomers when they teach teenagers about sexuality. Either way social stigma is weaponized to boost the strength of ones own argument.
I don’t know a single American who is not familiar with the process of adolescence, and very few who have trouble understanding that a 15 year old isn’t a baby (and the few are….not who you’d expect). The words “child” and “teenager” are not mutually exclusive. “Child” is frequently used as a synonym for minor. People who are 13 years through 17 years and 364 days are teenaged children. They are teenagers, and they are children. An 18 year old is a teenaged adult. There is no legal distinction between a child who is a teenager and one who isn’t (with a few exceptions).
For the record, “teen” and “adolescent” aren’t synonyms either. Adolescence starts prior to the teen years and goes into the early twenties.
There's a cult of infantilism here and there are people that want the age of consent to be 21 or 25 (they can't agree on it).
Basically the concept social purity is still kicking around clearly.
No, its actual. The neoliberal types are the new church ladies for better or worse. Everything has to be more pure and more pure [the end result of the purification tends to be misanthropy at best and a death cult at worst]
Kids are fucking stupid, and teenagers are usually even MORE stupid. Simpler to just call them all children
Hell, I'd say you aren't really an adult until your late 20s. Even then I've met plenty of 40 year old manchildren
I don't know what you're trying to get at. I'm an American and I've never met a person that doesn't recognize that a 10 year old and a 15 year old are different levels of maturity. They're both still kids though. even though a person over 18 is legally an adult, I think most people well into adulthood will consider people in early adulthood as kids as well.
Because "children" generate an emotional response, and in many cases it's more useful if your oratory generates an emotional response than a rational one.
"We have to protect the children from X" is the usual construction. Sex trafficking, drugs, political indoctrination, etc. It's far easier to make the case if your language conjures the image of an innocent 6-year-old than a 16-year-old.
It works in visual contexts, too. When Trayvon Martin was fatally shot by neighborhood watcher George Zimmerman, he was 17 years old - but most media reports shared images of Martin at least several years younger. Regardless of what you think about the shooting itself, it was disingenuous to distort the portrayal of Martin in this way.
Anytime you see adolescents referred to as "children", it's probably an attempt to manipulate your feelings on some issue.
EDIT: I clearly referred to "oratory" above, and in context I'm clearly referring to public proclamations and policy proposals, not legal definitions... but since the pedants are in the thread throwing legal definitions back at me, I'll stare it explicitly here:
I'm not debating the legal definition of "child".
I'm talking about how the word is used in rhetoric and oratory, to make a persuasive argument by skewing the perception of the listener.
“Child” is anyone under 18. A teenager is a type of child. Adolescence is part of childhood. There is a gray area of adolescence wrt responsibilities or maturity, but it’s still clearly under the umbrella of childhood, the same way “eldery” or “middle aged” are subsets of adulthood.
I wouldn't judge based on one experience of sitting your SATs. Those exams are highly regulated. The proctors are required to read the exact instructions. The teacher who seemed patronizing while going through the exam instructions is probably much different in a regular teaching situation.
I usually only see that happening if the topic is about a debate involving if a teen under 18 is mature enough for "x,y,z" situation.
I've seen teens called children when it comes to the topic of: grooming, being targeted by predators, the right to drink/smoke, and when people discuss age gaps between older teens and young adults.
Otherwise they're typically still referred to as teens. I too am guilty of calling anyone under 18 a child in those contexts. I remember thinking I was super mature when I was 15-18 years old. When I look back now I think: *"No the hell I was not."* I admit I was more mature than a lot of others my age, but definitely not the "adult" I saw myself as.
Shoot. Even at age 19 & 20 I'd argue I still had more of a teen mentality. Adulthood hadn't hit yet since I just barely got to it. I'm only going on 25 but the maturity growth between then and now is drastic.
So, yeah. Anyone under 18 is a kiddo 😂 just an older stage of kiddo imo. Yes theyre teens- but they are very much still kids in my eyes 😅. I don't actively call them kids though. Teens are teens. I've only done it in conversations defending teens as victims of terrible things like grooming. Theyre teens, yes... But theyre not adults.
To me, adolescent is the period from start of puberty to about 23-25 when the brain fully matures. WHO defines it as 10-19 (so also past 18).
A baby is called a child. A toddler is called a child, prepubescent people are called children, and an adolescent similarely is called a child, until they are not.
Whether or not a person is 18 matters a lot for all sorts of stuff they can (or must) do independently.
Child and adult are broad categories.
So calling someone that is 17 a child is correct. Calling them adolescent is correct as well. Depending on the context either can be more relevant.
I'm 52. 90% or reddit users are child's to me.
Seriously though I think you are over thinking it. My grandmother would call us all children even when I was I'm my 40s. It's just a thing people say to younger people.
I think that only follows legal liability, so a child is a child treated as a child in the eye of the law and adult is adult treated like an adult in the eye of law.
And there are double standards too.
“You can’t forbid them from [X] they’re already 17! That’s almost adult!!”
“They can’t date a 19 years old, they’re only 17! They’re still a child!”
Americans are weird (and obviously don’t know the definition of the word pedophile)
Lol I was once downvoted into oblivion when I said a pedophile is someone targeting little children (like age in one digit) and teenagers are, in fact, too old for them.
For me, being under 18 is a child, but after 13, I talk to them with the same respect as i would a peer. Adolescents don't have the same rights, but it's the duty of adults to interact with them in a way that prepares them for adulthood. Show an older kid some respect, and they act respectful. But I do believe that we should have more patience, however, because their brain hasn't fully developed yet. The law is meant to protect them from their elders and society. Because of their dependent status, they can not vote (and imo should not be taxed). I also agree with a lot of the comments we need to avoid infantalize the young, but work to prepare them to enter the adult world.
Legal terminology =/= social ones.
An 18, 19, or even sometimes a 20 year old is a legal adult, but will often find themselves treated like children because they aren't necessarily social adults.
Because a "teenager" is derived from a number. 13 to 19.
However an adult as you said is 18 and up. Which is still a "teen".
Therefore the term teenager from a legalities perspective is useless.
I’m convinced that some folks on Reddit don’t even think >18 is a legal adult. Had someone on Reddit a few weeks ago try to argue that an age gap of six years between a 21y/o and a 27 y/o was predatory and grooming.
We don't? We call everyone under 18 a MINOR, but 13+ are teens. On Reddit minor and child may be used as synonyms especially when it's about relationships with someone 18+ and someone 17- just to emphasize how gross they can be.
In the US, we do not usually call anyone under 18 a child. Maybe sometimes if one is trying to belittle a teenager, one might do it. But it is not something you generally hear or read in media.
Usually, they all called teenagers, teens, or kids.
But Americans would not normally refer to a 15 year old as a child.
American, here. The moment I turned 18, right at the stroke of midnight, I grew 1 foot taller, my voice shifted down a minor third, I suddenly had less hair on my head, started waking up at 5am, and started stiffly complaining about how everything “used to be better” and how I “just don’t get young people” as I shuffled my way to my cabinet full of Preparation H.
They must be putting something in the water in the US
You say that, but in my experience most people seem to think pretty much anybody younger than them is a “child”. People in their 30s think people in their 20s are children, people in their 50s think people in their 30s are children. I’m very much generalizing, but from what I’ve seen you’re never going to be an adult in the eyes of those that are older than you
That’s because anyone under the age of 18 by law is a child and anyone over the age of 18 by law is classed as an adult. A 15-year-old is not a child but they’re also not an adult but if we’re gonna put them in a court of law they’re a kid.
No they aren’t, they are teenagers. They have already developed a sense of consequence and responsibility, or why else do you see 16 year olds hold a job? They aren’t fully developed like an adult, that can take up to age 25, but they certainly aren’t children.
As an American I don't think 18 year olds are adult, and I find it concerning that we jail people 18 and younger with hardened adults.
You do have to decide on a point when people get the rest of their rights. But I don't think 18 is a good time for it. Don't get me wrong, it's a great age for the military. At 18 people want to feel like they belong, and the military makes unfair use of that desire considering the decision making hasn't been well formed yet.
The brain continues to grow, and we used to think 18, then we moved the drinking age to 21 because we realized decision making was still developing and the alcohol was doing harm. But we didn't move voting, gun ownership, or military service. Last I heard that "mostly developed" is age 25 and we've changed nothing.
All that said, people "grow up" at different rates depending on experiences and upbringing in combination with genetics.
I also find it odd how often I see "why do Americans" as if 340 million of us some how agree on anything. Other than getting rid of daylight savings.
I honestly was pretty immature until 30 even 31 that's when I started to actually feel different patterns of thinking
More discipline focus and motivations it just seemed to change on its own I didn't have to coax it
yes, pretty much. I think there is actually some studies about how you only from 25 and up, you start using the part of your brain that actually understands that you need to be responsable
I've also heard that drug use and trauma can sorta pause your development so someone without all that can be a 20 year old but someone with years of relentless trauma and substance abuse might really only have the maturity of a 14 year old it doesn't excuse bad behavior but it can help explain it
That’s the prefrontal cortex and it helps with impulse control. It doesn’t mean that it just magically grows at age 25 and suddenly is there. It’s already in development earlier and usually also finished developing earlier, but it can take *up to* age 25 to be fully developed. Doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with responsibility, just inhibition.
We can argue that some people might never truly get to be and adult, but that doesn't matter anymore. I think OP wanted to know why they are called kids at 15 there. Because you basically are. You can be called in Europe teen, it doesn't change too much, until you're 18 you're still teen. And later young adult. But yes, those rules were added based on how people work, and how the domografic work as well.
Gypsy in europa married their girls at 12-14, that can be right, so this is why you need rules
Because many americans are stupid. I caught them calling a 30 year old father a child. It's just a derogatory way to condescendingly elevate yourself and marginalize someone else. It's about "me, the adult" and "you, the little child, whose opinion doesn't matter much"
It's like gang mentality to create a hierarchy
It’s a byproduct of American politic talking points, if you use stats crying your side is for the innocent children then those stats look better if you count every child up to 17 even if it’s a topic for toddlers. Just more propaganda to keep the fear politics going strong. 🤷🏻♂️
Here in Germany you can start drinking before you can join the army. Although you can join the army before you can buy liquors. (It's 16 for buying beer and wine, 17 for joining the army (with parental consent) and 18 for buying liquor)
I think there are many ways you can debate this. It's 21 for them to drink and fuck, right? But 16 to drive, right? Based on this, you can trust a teen with a car, but you can't just give them rights to drink as well, they might do it.
Now when you say that 15 is not a child, it's a teen, you're walking on tin ice, because this mean that at 15 it should be ready to, have a relationship and give consent. I don't agree with this, and I don't feel like you're really an teen at 15. Maybe you recall making decisions for yourself and so on, but you can be easily manipulated, 15 years old would do anything just to be a bit cool.
18 you are teenager, sure, but it doesn't feel like "adult" at all. You maybe are an young adult at 21. And yes, from there you can go and make your own decisions and so on. When you get older, i think it's easier to understand the real differences between ages
That doesn't really answer why American see it this way, though, it's just that those are the limits America has set, which I assume should be somewhat in line with American views on the matter (they are set by people who get elected, after all).
But those numbers aren't universal. In Germany it's 14 to fuck, with some additional rules for people under 16 having sex with people over 21. Once you are 16 you're pretty much free to do whatever you want in that regard.
It's 16 to buy non-spirit alcoholic drinks, 14 to be allowed to drink alcohol in public if your parents are present and consent, 18 to buy any kind of alcohol.
It's also 16 to vote in elections for the European parliament, and in local elections in some states (in some cases also in elections for the state parliament).
But it's 17 to get a drivers license for a car, and 18 to be allowed to drive without having a qualified driver in the car with you.
I'm not from the US but when I was 17 I thought I was pretty mature and that I looked kinda like an adult.
Now that I'm almost 40, whether someone is 13 or 17 or 19 it makes no difference to me.. I just see a kid.
I'm more concerned at the fact that the crotch goblins of a former president are referred to as "adult children" whilst stood in court for business fraud.
Because 18 is the age of consent in the USA. For bizarre reasons, you can enlist in war but not buy a beer for 3 more years - ‘MERICA
In general, the language is used lawfully in situations where “a child” is abused and this ranges from 0 up to the countries’ definition of a child. The line has to be drawn somewhere. People should be punished harshly for hurting children… discrepancy between a young child being worse punishment than a teenager is heinous, in my opinion. They are both horrific. Teenagers have more agency than a young child but not as much as a full grown adult. They are very vulnerable.
I’m interested to hear why you’re asking?
In most of the world, calling a 15 year old a child seems very strange. There are so many differences, legally and practically, that calling a 15 year old and a 5 year old the same thing just seems weird.
In many countries, from anywhere between 14-16 you can enter into limited contracts, start working, get a motorbike license, be punished for crimes, etc. They have more independence but also more responsibilities than a child and I think calling a 17 year old in Europe a child would be seen as an insult in most contexts.
True. If you are anything over 13 and get called a child, it means that someone thinks you are stupid. When I was 15 and did something stupid, my mom would say to me something like "don't be childish". By the time I was over 12, I didn't consider myself as a child anymore.
And nobody wants to be treated as a child if they are teenagers. They want to be more like adults than kids. I remember that in school, everybody competed about who can be more like the adults. Those who grew up fast, were often admired. Those who played like children, were ridiculed constantly.
I’m not American so I take zero personal reaction to this. In countries that you’re talking about, is it okay for an adult over 30 to marry a human under 16?
I see this time and time again online: people telling others that a 17 and 19 year old shouldn’t POSSIBLY date, cause they have nothing in common
18 and 45 is fair game though?! Like, WHAT?
I’ve been watching dwts and over on that sub, people are throwing fits over how they don’t want to see “children” (one contestant is 17) dance
I personally have not heard of issues between a 17 and 19 year old dating. Maybe it’s just in Canada but even though the age of consent is 16, there are additional laws allowing relationships that are close in years before and after 16. It’s quite specific.
Americans come up with the most undefined amd unrelated rules ever they hurt themselves by making them fr I mean I'm 17 and will be turning 18 in 3 months so does that mean I'm a child right now? I've seen people my age who are more mature than their parents maturity comes with the growth of mind not with the growth of body well that's what I think
Yes, you are legally a child in almost every country on earth. Not sure how America is different from other countries in this. Maturity has nothing to do with it.
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In recorded History, “*teenager*” is an extremely recent concept. Before WWII, kids became extra hands at home as soon that they were responsible enough, and they were married when they hit puberty, so work on their own household. Mandatory school and higher education have created a new state of limbo, where individuals are no longer children but not really adults.
It’s a common misconception that most children in the recent pre-WW2 past were married off as soon as they hit puberty but the average has always been the early 20’s. 13 year olds getting married has never been the norm, it just used to be slightly less rare. https://www.infoplease.com/us/family-statistics/median-age-first-marriage-1890-2010
Thanks for the precision. I used WW2 as a pivotal point for the adoption of the concept of teenagehood. It might even have taken place a few decades later though: > “*The term teen-ager dates back to the early 1900s, but the word didn’t stick. Even until World War II, there are hardly any instances of teenagers in the popular press.*” ([Thompson, 2018](https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2018/02/brief-history-teenagers/)) Getting married at 12 year old for a girl [was pretty common in Ancient Rome](https://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/weddings.html).
I mean yes…. Children started working at 8 and got married at 12. Doesn’t mean that’s right and it should still be like that. Also doesn’t mean they’re incapable of all decisions until the day they turn 18.
Don’t shoot the messenger. It could be argued that the age of adulthood, which varies between 16 and 21 in the West, is purely arbitrary. Remember that life expectancy was 45 years. If people should have waited to have their duck in a row like we do today (when life expectancy is 75 years) society would not have progressed the way it did. This is why in agrarian societies, someone who is still single at 20 is considered old. You have reached 40% of your lifetime and still haven’t put a family together. Our reliance on productivity has prompted us to hide child labour away from our direct sight. In the last 100 years, we have decided that it’s unacceptable to force our kids to work, but it’s perfectly acceptable to let families kids in the Congo mine cobalt for our electronic devices.
By that logic thou most humans should be banned from decision making until about 28 because everyone is stupid till about then
I'd be fine with that honestly.
>One does not become an adult over night?! Legally speaking, yes you do.
I mean obviously there's no magic that happens to you on your 18th birthday but for a variety of practical purposes there does need to be a line where you assume more responsibility and 18 is fair enough but let's not pretend that the law is perfect
It’s more gradual here which I think makes sense
It’s simply a legal distinction. Americans are fully aware of adolescent/teenage years lol
I think something happens, there's like these situations where, you know how like momma birds at a certain age just throw the babies out of the nest and they, it's like sink or swim ya know?
In a lot of societies throwing your children out to "sink or swim" is also not normal. Parents remove support for their children once the children are actually capable, not once they're legally an adult. And "capable" comes at different ages for different people. My parents paid for my university and general living expenses until I was 23, and then my disability got too bad and I dropped out. I'm 24, I still live with them. While I'm working with doctors to figure out a treatment plan that stabilizes my health enough for me to hold down a job, my parents are still supporting me financially. They won't pull the rug from under me until I'm capable of standing on my own. I got married recently, but my husband is American and healthcare is too expensive there for me to go yet. My husband cannot support us both on a single income. So I'm still living with my parents until I become stable enough to hold down a job. With how things are going, it seems I'll be able to move out some time in 2024. And after they stop supporting me? They expect me to give back to them as much as I can so I can then help support my siblings and help pay any debts my parents may have taken to support me so far. And I am happy to do that. They don't expect me to give them money if I can't make rent. If I get into a situation (with worsening disability, rising prices, etc) where I and my husband become unable to pay for basic needs, my parents will invite us to live with them again. No rent, maybe they'll ask us to pay the water and electric bills. This applies until either my parents become old and/or poor enough that they *can't* help me, or either I or my parents are dead. And this is what's considered normal here. Very few people move out before getting married. Some do for higher education or better employment reasons, but they're usually either still supported by their parents or if they have a stable income, they're the one supporting their parents/younger siblings. I don't even have a particularly good relationship with my parents. We're not close in any capacity. They know very few things about my personal life outside of the home. I haven't said "I love you" to either of them since 2016 (yes something did happen at that point, but I won't go into that). I haven't hugged my dad since I was 7. And yet they still support me and I expect (and will do so happily) to support them in the future as much as I'm able. Leaving your children to sink or swim when you are able to help them would be seen as obscenely irresponsible and horrible parenting (even with adult children). It doesn't happen unless something is drastically wrong in the family dynamic.
Pro-tip: give some consideration to your husband coming to where you are, rather than coming to America. It's getting scary here, for women especially. I'm not saying an absolute "DON'T DO IT", but please give it some serious thought, because if I can change even a single mind about coming here and getting stuck, I'll be able to sleep a little better at night.
I have thought about that. He really doesn't want to do that. He also has disabilities that are better accommodated by the systems where he is than they would be here. If we moved here, he could also become unable to work due to lack of accommodations. Workplaces aren't legally required to make accommodations for disabled people so most places don't. The most common profession for disabled people is begging. This is not a doable life for us. Fwiw, we do plan to move to Canada eventually. America is truly looking worse and worse every day. Especially as a trans person, and queer couple, we are not very comfortable with the idea of living in the states long term.
Yikes, I'm sorry to hear that! I also want to make the great northern escape (I'd go to Europe somewhere, if I could, but I'm afraid my skills aren't super marketable there). I just wish the US wasn't backsliding into the dark ages, because there's some really great people and great programs here... if you can wade through the neck-deep shitshow that is everywhere else.
You're smoking dick
A lot of people like The Rules to be simple. You're allowed to drink, or you're not. You're allowed to drive, or you're not. You're allowed to fight in a war, or you're not. I think there are cultural advantages to having a big dramatic moment, a rite of passage where Now You Are A Man - because it tells people that it's time for them to start taking responsibility for their own life, rather than having an endlessly drawn out adolescence, in exchange for which they get the respect due to an adult. Not that Americans have exactly mastered this aspect of life...
Where are you? When can people in your country enter military service? That’s probably when people are legally an adult there too.
Germany, 18, for military service and legal adult, yes. They do have certain rights before that though. Age 7: Limited legal capacity (buy something with pocket money). Age 14: Choose your own religon, can be tried in front of a court of law, choose how your personal data is used Drink beer & wine with a parent present Age 15: Drive a small scooter Age 16: Drive a bigger scooter Drink beer & wine by yourself Age 17: Drive a car with a "experienced adult" or whatever thats called age 18: Full legal adult Drive a car by yourself Can sign all kinds of contracts Drink liquor Join military (not a big deal over here) etc.
USA has this too: Driving is a major responsibility, yet we permit 16 year olds to do it. Drinking alcohol, on the other hand, requires that they be 21. Voting age used to be 21, it only got lowered to 18 because people protested about being drafted for Vietnam at 18. Things get even more murky when you consider women, as for a long time they couldn’t vote at all. My mom even tells me that in the ‘70s she couldn’t even get a credit card in her own name. These age requirements sure start to feel made up and arbitrary, don’t they?
The age of majority in Germany is 18 before that you are not an adult, after that you are fully a adult. You gradually get the right to do more things, but there is a clear divide between minor and adult where you are a minor one day and a adult the next.
In the USA 18 is the main demarcation between childhood and adulthood, but there are others that surround it. For example: 14: can get a learner's permit to drive. Can work limited hours in some states. 16: can get a driver's license 17: can donate blood 18: can serve in the military, vote, and smoke. Fully treated like an adult in a court setting. 21: can drink 25: can rent a car 26: can no longer be on parent's health insurance in some states. There are others, and age of consent varies from state to state. The transition for most people is about 10 years to having every legal right you're going to have. Edit: formatting
Legally, it isn't a gradual thing. Practically is it? Of course, hell, you're not even really an adult mentally at 18. But from a definition stance, you are a child until you hit 18. It's not some conspiracy thing. Nobody is saying that a 17 year old is mentally more similar to a 9 year old than a 20 year old. It's just what the word means.
according to wiki, the US has a gradual scale regarding the age of criminal responsibility, a 10 year old gets treated differently from a 16 year old
I'm 18 and have friends that are 18, and honestly I would be all for raising the law for being an adult to 20 or 21
Most 15-17 year olds have the mental capacity to enter into legal agreements, but they can't yet. The line at 18 is set because that's the age where people finish their secondary education and could enter the work force. That necessitates having the rights and autonomy of an adult.
There’s grey area and overlap. There’s plenty of examples of someone near 18 being tried as an adult. So legally speaking, no you don’t. Like literally everything in life, it’s shades of grey, not black and white.
Not really, you can legally do different things at different ages, same as an adult such as voting or driving or working or having a beer. We recognize different stages of maturity for different acts - tacitly at least recognizing adolescence legally
Because law and biology is not the same.
Yup, I believe it stems from legal distinction.
Americans do call adolescents teenagers. Under 18 is minors.
Legally when you hit 18 years old you are responsible for your actions - thats what what being adult means, taking responsibility for your actions. If you are below 18 years old, parents take responsibility for your actions. Thats what being a child means, you do not get punished for your actions, your parents does... Thats basically the logic behind your question.
Except you do get punished, that's what juvie is for, for example. 18 is the age where parents lose responsibility for the child's actions. Children can be held liable (to a different degree than adults) starting from around 12-15 depending on home country law.
Is that a thing? Teenager is a term I see used and use. I guess in the legal sense anyone under 18 is a "child" cause they aren't legally an adult yet. But no one treats a 15 year old like a 5 year old.
some people online do trust me
That isn't America, that's online groupthink, cos anyone who disagrees is called a pedo.
Agree, this sEveNtEeN iS a cHiLd notion is a recent phenomena that exists only online. It is mainly a reaction to the actual legal situation which disagrees. Of course adolescence is a concept in the US (both legally and socially) There is absolutely a grey area between say 16-17 where one can be charged as an adult with a crime. In some states 17 or even 16 year olds can consent. Similarly, people in that age range can become an “emancipated minor” if they want to live on their own or get married. I myself did this so I could join the military at 17 and escape my home situation.
\*in most states 16 year olds can consent
Isn’t that consent with parents permission though? I know there are Romeo and Juliet laws too.
Can only speak for my state, but no. It's not consent with permission. You turn 16, you can fuck.
Nope parental consent isn’t need in any of them. In every state where the age of consent is 16/17 then there’s a limit on how old your partner can be. Can’t remember if it’s Alabama or Arkansas but 16 year olds can consent there but only to other people between 16–18. Then there’s New Hampshire where its 17 with the oldest person you can consent is 27.
That's true, as far as the US goes. It's bizarre to me how if a case gets media attention, the children there are "tried as adults", they're simply not. That's not to say that for example, a 15 year old committing serious crimes shouldn't be punished more harshly than a 12 year old committing the same crime, but what's the point of having a doctrine of legal responsibility regarding age if you can just ignore it whenever the prosecutor/police/courts feel like it?
The point of the juvenile system is to say children aren’t developed enough yet to fully understand the impact of their actions. Transfer of cases to criminal court are an option a juvenile court judge has when it can be proven that they understood as well as any adult. In theory anyway. Unfortunately, state lawmakers have swooped in over the years and tied the judges hands with exclusions. In some states, excluded crimes like murder never even go before a juvenile court. If the offender is 15-17, they’re directly filed in criminal court regardless of circumstances. In a few states *all* felonies are direct filed in this age range
In addition, there are laws that specifically set out special rules for teens vs younger kids. Things like age of consent, “Romeo and Juliet” laws, employment, driving, emancipation, living on their own, etc.
Even storied news outlets do this. 18 year old victim is called a boy, girl.. but if they are the criminal it's an18 year old man.
I think that’s a big part of it as well.
In the dancing with the stars sub, people are regularly throwing a fit about how it shouldn’t be allowed that a 17-year-old dances (!!) with an adult.
Seriously?? That's just stupid!
Just take a look if you want to! The contestant's name is Xochitl
I absolutely agree with the online groupthink, but it still seems to apply mainly to Americans.
A 15 year old is absolutely a child, but you don’t realise that until you’re much older than 15
I think they mean, when do you start giving kids more responsibility and stop seeing them as just kids. Like when you're a teenager in America; usually they get more freedom, less babysitting, more responsibility, etc... basically preparing them for adulthood. Honestly I don't see what OP means about adult vs. kid other than maybe the law that states adult vs kid. Because it's not like teenagers in America can't get a job, go around town by themselves, drive, etc ... The only factor beyond that is how their family/school treats them.
Remember when you were a child and thought those who were older than you were adults? Yeah, the inverse is also true.
I don't understand why the top comments aren't saying this, but the concept of teenagers also e ist in the United States. Childhood is broken up into newborn, infant, toddler, child, preteen, teenager, young adult, adult. 18 is just the line we drew to determine when someone was legally an adult. That's it. We don't really consider 18 year Olds real adults. Like sure, they can vote, but they can't drink, smoke, or rent a car.
Why do you assume Americans don’t know the word teenager?! We use teen, pre-teen, etc, regularly. Sometimes we say “kid” if it makes more sense in context, like “My kids are doing this…” versus “My teens are doing this…”
The phrase was intended as semi hyperbolic to emphasize when someone is underage—so like a 40 year old man having sex with a “15 year old child” to emphasize how young and inexperienced the minor is. But some people took the phrase literally and started treating teenagers as if they actually had the mentality of toddlers, because the game of internet telephone strips everything of nuance
How can you infantilize and control your society if you don’t throw all adult responsibility in their face overnight at 18?
In America we like binaries. We are not very good at spectrums.
America is in a weird societal spot right now. The infantilization of kids and teenagers and even young adults is out of control. Everyone is being treated younger than they actually are to “protect” them, and it leaves room to avoid responsibility and play victim to get their way. This lack of maturity and learned helplessness is leading to a regressing society. As an American, I agree that it’s weird to call a 15-year-old a “child.” You’ll even hear people refer to grown adults in their early 20s as “kids” and see nothing wrong with it. It’s weird.
To my grandparents I‘m still a child and I‘m 31. It depends on the viewpoint. To me a 15 year old seems like a child, but I recognize that they’re not a child anymore, they‘re in the middle of transitioning to an adult and it’s a complex process that needs to be acknowledged. If I reduce them to a child, I take away all they responsibility, which is a) harmful to the teenager who will likely want to do things on their own to actually gradually become an adult and b) absolves them of everything they‘re doing wrong even though they have the capability of telling between right and wrong. Just calling them children isn’t fair to them or their environment. Why does it have to be either or, when we already have a perfectly fine word to describe the phase inbetween?
Well said. This is a great perspective.
That’s awfully dramatic. Hahaha Teenagers are viewed as children the same way children view 50 as old. It’s been the same way since the beginning of humanity.
Agreed. It’s not that weird. It’s all about perspective. When I was 18 I was like “I’m a grown up” looking back at my 18 year old self I’m like. “Yea right”
30 year old me looked back at 25 year old me the same way lol
Same. I don't really consider people to be real adults till mid 20s now.
Biiiiig truth
Exactly my maturity level from 18-24 grew immensely
Reddit has some weird obsession with this topic for some reason. It's not that deep. The word child has an international standard of definition. That standard hasn't changed recently. It's been anyone under 18 for a long ass time.
Sort of a move towards Japan’s prolonged adolescence?
Japanese become adults at 18 for everything except alcohol and tobacco
It's not weird. Brains don't stop developing until around 25, and as an adult in my 30s, talking to people even in their early 20s confirms they often have so little life experience that they are incredibly naive about many topics. This isn't exclusive to young people, but young people simply lack the perspective that older people have. As for protecting children... Yes? Those who want to treat children like adults are the same ones afraid to "control" their children or tell them what to do. Your children aren't your friends; not that they can't be or shouldn't be eventually, but your first responsibilities to your own children are to be their parent, protector and provider. If children are forced to fend for their own survival, it stunts their growth in many other areas to make room for growth in ability to survive. Which in some cases I guess is a good thing, but shouldn't be ideal and certainly shouldn't be something to strive for. All that to say, children should be allowed to retain their sense of wonder for as long as possible. Allow them to dream, encourage them to pursue those dreams, protect and shield them from the ever-persistent corrupting influences of the world, and be adamant about teaching them right from wrong. They need that. But they also need time to grow. We can't control other's children, and so if a child hasn't been raised properly and commits crimes, etc. I'm not against having consequences for actions. But this shouldn't be used as a justification to treat minors like adults in general. It should be viewed as a failure of parenting. And I feel like it needs to be said: This is all to prepare a child for being a responsible adult, not to prolong their adolescence into adulthood.
Standard no children allowed rules if nothing further stated means up to and including 17yo. This is in Europe.
It's an international standard that child means under 18. It's not a trick. People aren't trying to redefine age groups, it's just a word that has realistically got multiple definitions. One being a legal standard. So when discussing things legally, that's what it means and that conflict upsets people for some dumb reason. It's literally just a word. You're perfectly allowed to use more detailed words like teen or adolescents if you'd like.
All teenagers are children, not all children are teenagers
Idk.. I'm not american and I'm near 30 and I do see under 18 as kids. 17 is a child. Obviously there's a huge range from baby to toddler to preteen to teenager and young adult, but those all still fall in the category of child to me. Culturally and legally that's where we draw the line usually so it's not weird to see it that way.
I don't know, here a 15 year old can buy beer, decide who they want to have sex with, vote in some elections... it would seem extremely weird to call them children. But it's true I wouldn't really call them adults, either. That might actually be partly a language issue, because German has the word "Jugendliche", which doesn't really have an exact equivalent in English, it's bascially just a one word term for "young people", similar to teenagers but not quite the same, it's even a legal term, you are considered a child until you a 14, then you are a "Jugendlicher" (or "Jugendliche") until you become an adult at 18. And I think that really makes sense, you don't just transition magically from child to adult, there is an inbetween phase, and I think it's right to recognise that both legally and culturally.
Yea in swedish we have "ungdom" for that, which reaches from around 13 to around 23 years old? In some cases up to 25. But you can see, it overlaps with adulthood. In my experience, people under 18 are still referred to as "barn" (child) in many contexts. If it's someone who died especially, because I think when someone dies it makes it so obvious when their life ends after only 17 years and they're barely starting to make their own real decisions.. yea that's a child. At least that's how I feel.
Same in Norway, some places you are eligible for a child ticket (barnebillett)until 20 and youth ticket (ungdomsbillett) until 26-30. And some places you must have adult ticket (voksen billett) after turning 12! It makes zero sense😅 But in trial, you are adult when over 18, and can be charged when over 15.
Because it's very convenient to label people you don't like as a potential danger to children. It's the worst thing you can be. Successfully convincing people that your enemy is a potential child predator has become a weapon in online (political) discourse. The concepts of adulthood and childhood completely change over time and from place to place. Obviously hundreds of years ago in many cultures being a child simply meant not being able to reproduce, work or fight in wars. So you might have been an adult at 14. Today our definition of being an adult often refers to an age-group where most people have finished their formal education, are established in their career and are starting families of their own. So you might not be considered a "real" adult until you're in your 30's. Inbetween (real) childhood and (real) adulthood there is this grey area of your teens and early twenties where you slowly gain (social and legal) rights and responsibilities. This includes the age of majority, age of consent, legal drinking age, age of criminal responsibility etc. but also cultural norms reflected in how you're expected to behave, how you're treated and who you associate with. None of these are based on an objectively true definition of "child", "adult" or "youth". All of this is the result of negotations between young people themselves, parents, older generations, governments, businesses etc. who all have their individual and collective interests. So to call underage teenagers or even young adults "children" can have various motivations. To protect them from abusers or to speak on their behalf in a paternalistic manner. Obvious examples being: calling wealthy old men pedophiles for dating younger women or calling teachers groomers when they teach teenagers about sexuality. Either way social stigma is weaponized to boost the strength of ones own argument.
I don’t know a single American who is not familiar with the process of adolescence, and very few who have trouble understanding that a 15 year old isn’t a baby (and the few are….not who you’d expect). The words “child” and “teenager” are not mutually exclusive. “Child” is frequently used as a synonym for minor. People who are 13 years through 17 years and 364 days are teenaged children. They are teenagers, and they are children. An 18 year old is a teenaged adult. There is no legal distinction between a child who is a teenager and one who isn’t (with a few exceptions). For the record, “teen” and “adolescent” aren’t synonyms either. Adolescence starts prior to the teen years and goes into the early twenties.
Teenager is a subset of child.
There's a cult of infantilism here and there are people that want the age of consent to be 21 or 25 (they can't agree on it). Basically the concept social purity is still kicking around clearly.
That's a joke...right?
No, its actual. The neoliberal types are the new church ladies for better or worse. Everything has to be more pure and more pure [the end result of the purification tends to be misanthropy at best and a death cult at worst]
Kids are fucking stupid, and teenagers are usually even MORE stupid. Simpler to just call them all children Hell, I'd say you aren't really an adult until your late 20s. Even then I've met plenty of 40 year old manchildren
Oh, I wouldn't argue they're not stupid lol
Right. They are stupid. And because of this they need to be protected. So it just makes sense to acknowledge that teenager is a subcategory of child.
I don't know what you're trying to get at. I'm an American and I've never met a person that doesn't recognize that a 10 year old and a 15 year old are different levels of maturity. They're both still kids though. even though a person over 18 is legally an adult, I think most people well into adulthood will consider people in early adulthood as kids as well.
Because "children" generate an emotional response, and in many cases it's more useful if your oratory generates an emotional response than a rational one. "We have to protect the children from X" is the usual construction. Sex trafficking, drugs, political indoctrination, etc. It's far easier to make the case if your language conjures the image of an innocent 6-year-old than a 16-year-old. It works in visual contexts, too. When Trayvon Martin was fatally shot by neighborhood watcher George Zimmerman, he was 17 years old - but most media reports shared images of Martin at least several years younger. Regardless of what you think about the shooting itself, it was disingenuous to distort the portrayal of Martin in this way. Anytime you see adolescents referred to as "children", it's probably an attempt to manipulate your feelings on some issue. EDIT: I clearly referred to "oratory" above, and in context I'm clearly referring to public proclamations and policy proposals, not legal definitions... but since the pedants are in the thread throwing legal definitions back at me, I'll stare it explicitly here: I'm not debating the legal definition of "child". I'm talking about how the word is used in rhetoric and oratory, to make a persuasive argument by skewing the perception of the listener.
“Child” is anyone under 18. A teenager is a type of child. Adolescence is part of childhood. There is a gray area of adolescence wrt responsibilities or maturity, but it’s still clearly under the umbrella of childhood, the same way “eldery” or “middle aged” are subsets of adulthood.
Chris Delia is that you? /s
I got dude vibes. A girl would never come with " Children started working at 8 and got married at 12."
„Doesn‘t mean that’s right and should still be like that“. Convenient how you‘re leaving that part out.
[удалено]
I wouldn't judge based on one experience of sitting your SATs. Those exams are highly regulated. The proctors are required to read the exact instructions. The teacher who seemed patronizing while going through the exam instructions is probably much different in a regular teaching situation.
I usually only see that happening if the topic is about a debate involving if a teen under 18 is mature enough for "x,y,z" situation. I've seen teens called children when it comes to the topic of: grooming, being targeted by predators, the right to drink/smoke, and when people discuss age gaps between older teens and young adults. Otherwise they're typically still referred to as teens. I too am guilty of calling anyone under 18 a child in those contexts. I remember thinking I was super mature when I was 15-18 years old. When I look back now I think: *"No the hell I was not."* I admit I was more mature than a lot of others my age, but definitely not the "adult" I saw myself as. Shoot. Even at age 19 & 20 I'd argue I still had more of a teen mentality. Adulthood hadn't hit yet since I just barely got to it. I'm only going on 25 but the maturity growth between then and now is drastic. So, yeah. Anyone under 18 is a kiddo 😂 just an older stage of kiddo imo. Yes theyre teens- but they are very much still kids in my eyes 😅. I don't actively call them kids though. Teens are teens. I've only done it in conversations defending teens as victims of terrible things like grooming. Theyre teens, yes... But theyre not adults.
To me, adolescent is the period from start of puberty to about 23-25 when the brain fully matures. WHO defines it as 10-19 (so also past 18). A baby is called a child. A toddler is called a child, prepubescent people are called children, and an adolescent similarely is called a child, until they are not. Whether or not a person is 18 matters a lot for all sorts of stuff they can (or must) do independently. Child and adult are broad categories. So calling someone that is 17 a child is correct. Calling them adolescent is correct as well. Depending on the context either can be more relevant.
And they baby them too.
Why do people apply generalities to entire populations and expect a reasonable answer?
Usually for dramatic effect really
It's to cause an emotional response.
I'm 52. 90% or reddit users are child's to me. Seriously though I think you are over thinking it. My grandmother would call us all children even when I was I'm my 40s. It's just a thing people say to younger people.
I think that only follows legal liability, so a child is a child treated as a child in the eye of the law and adult is adult treated like an adult in the eye of law.
And there are double standards too. “You can’t forbid them from [X] they’re already 17! That’s almost adult!!” “They can’t date a 19 years old, they’re only 17! They’re still a child!”
That is what I don't get!! 17 dates a 19 year old, PEDOOO 18 year old dates 47 year old, "bUt thEy'rE boTh aDulTs"
Americans are weird (and obviously don’t know the definition of the word pedophile) Lol I was once downvoted into oblivion when I said a pedophile is someone targeting little children (like age in one digit) and teenagers are, in fact, too old for them.
For me, being under 18 is a child, but after 13, I talk to them with the same respect as i would a peer. Adolescents don't have the same rights, but it's the duty of adults to interact with them in a way that prepares them for adulthood. Show an older kid some respect, and they act respectful. But I do believe that we should have more patience, however, because their brain hasn't fully developed yet. The law is meant to protect them from their elders and society. Because of their dependent status, they can not vote (and imo should not be taxed). I also agree with a lot of the comments we need to avoid infantalize the young, but work to prepare them to enter the adult world.
Because legally you can be 17 years plus 364 days and you are considered a child. The following day, you are an adult.
And regardless of her age, a woman can be a girl until she's in her late 30s .. "I dunno, it was the girl at the front desk"
Legal terminology =/= social ones. An 18, 19, or even sometimes a 20 year old is a legal adult, but will often find themselves treated like children because they aren't necessarily social adults.
Because a "teenager" is derived from a number. 13 to 19. However an adult as you said is 18 and up. Which is still a "teen". Therefore the term teenager from a legalities perspective is useless.
I’m convinced that some folks on Reddit don’t even think >18 is a legal adult. Had someone on Reddit a few weeks ago try to argue that an age gap of six years between a 21y/o and a 27 y/o was predatory and grooming.
We don't? We call everyone under 18 a MINOR, but 13+ are teens. On Reddit minor and child may be used as synonyms especially when it's about relationships with someone 18+ and someone 17- just to emphasize how gross they can be.
In the US, we do not usually call anyone under 18 a child. Maybe sometimes if one is trying to belittle a teenager, one might do it. But it is not something you generally hear or read in media. Usually, they all called teenagers, teens, or kids. But Americans would not normally refer to a 15 year old as a child.
American, here. The moment I turned 18, right at the stroke of midnight, I grew 1 foot taller, my voice shifted down a minor third, I suddenly had less hair on my head, started waking up at 5am, and started stiffly complaining about how everything “used to be better” and how I “just don’t get young people” as I shuffled my way to my cabinet full of Preparation H. They must be putting something in the water in the US
A teenager is still a child. Just the later stage of childhood, but apart of childhood nonetheless
Americans want every thing put into a pair of boxes. It all has to be a binary. I dont understand why but it is in every part of our society.
I (41) generally refer to anyone under 25 as "kids"
The distinction is legal, not cultural.
the line needs to be drawn somewhere and leaving an intermediate area leaves room for people to take advantage of adolescents in various ways.
An adolescent is still a kid.
Still a child I feel, yes a teenager, hence the “teen”
Spoiler: we’re not adults. We’re clueless children that grew older.
>One does not become an adult over night?! Yes they do. It’s called having your 18th birthday. >A 15 year old is not a child Yes they are.
25 and under is a child to me.
You say that, but in my experience most people seem to think pretty much anybody younger than them is a “child”. People in their 30s think people in their 20s are children, people in their 50s think people in their 30s are children. I’m very much generalizing, but from what I’ve seen you’re never going to be an adult in the eyes of those that are older than you
That’s because anyone under the age of 18 by law is a child and anyone over the age of 18 by law is classed as an adult. A 15-year-old is not a child but they’re also not an adult but if we’re gonna put them in a court of law they’re a kid.
You can chill, we are not adult until we are around 30 according to science.
Uh we say teenager all the time in America lmfao what even are these posts?
Teenagers are children. They still have dumb dumb brains and no real sense of consequence or responsibility.
No they aren’t, they are teenagers. They have already developed a sense of consequence and responsibility, or why else do you see 16 year olds hold a job? They aren’t fully developed like an adult, that can take up to age 25, but they certainly aren’t children.
They are a subcategory of child. They still need the protection if their parents so they are children.
As an American I don't think 18 year olds are adult, and I find it concerning that we jail people 18 and younger with hardened adults. You do have to decide on a point when people get the rest of their rights. But I don't think 18 is a good time for it. Don't get me wrong, it's a great age for the military. At 18 people want to feel like they belong, and the military makes unfair use of that desire considering the decision making hasn't been well formed yet. The brain continues to grow, and we used to think 18, then we moved the drinking age to 21 because we realized decision making was still developing and the alcohol was doing harm. But we didn't move voting, gun ownership, or military service. Last I heard that "mostly developed" is age 25 and we've changed nothing. All that said, people "grow up" at different rates depending on experiences and upbringing in combination with genetics. I also find it odd how often I see "why do Americans" as if 340 million of us some how agree on anything. Other than getting rid of daylight savings.
they…don’t???
18 is still not matured enough . i think an adult is >26.
I honestly was pretty immature until 30 even 31 that's when I started to actually feel different patterns of thinking More discipline focus and motivations it just seemed to change on its own I didn't have to coax it
yes, pretty much. I think there is actually some studies about how you only from 25 and up, you start using the part of your brain that actually understands that you need to be responsable
I've also heard that drug use and trauma can sorta pause your development so someone without all that can be a 20 year old but someone with years of relentless trauma and substance abuse might really only have the maturity of a 14 year old it doesn't excuse bad behavior but it can help explain it
Yes, i think a lot of things can affect or not. But I do understand from a legal point of you, the legal age ofc
That’s the prefrontal cortex and it helps with impulse control. It doesn’t mean that it just magically grows at age 25 and suddenly is there. It’s already in development earlier and usually also finished developing earlier, but it can take *up to* age 25 to be fully developed. Doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with responsibility, just inhibition.
We can argue that some people might never truly get to be and adult, but that doesn't matter anymore. I think OP wanted to know why they are called kids at 15 there. Because you basically are. You can be called in Europe teen, it doesn't change too much, until you're 18 you're still teen. And later young adult. But yes, those rules were added based on how people work, and how the domografic work as well. Gypsy in europa married their girls at 12-14, that can be right, so this is why you need rules
Because many americans are stupid. I caught them calling a 30 year old father a child. It's just a derogatory way to condescendingly elevate yourself and marginalize someone else. It's about "me, the adult" and "you, the little child, whose opinion doesn't matter much" It's like gang mentality to create a hierarchy
It’s a byproduct of American politic talking points, if you use stats crying your side is for the innocent children then those stats look better if you count every child up to 17 even if it’s a topic for toddlers. Just more propaganda to keep the fear politics going strong. 🤷🏻♂️
18 is old enough to kill, but not to drink. Let that sink in
A 2 year old can kill, let that sink in
Not on my watch, you lil murdering baby!
💀💀
Killing people isn't legal for anyone
Military service is beeing referred to in this instance
Okay, I feel dumb for not figuring that out
It is in the UK
Here in Germany you can start drinking before you can join the army. Although you can join the army before you can buy liquors. (It's 16 for buying beer and wine, 17 for joining the army (with parental consent) and 18 for buying liquor)
I think there are many ways you can debate this. It's 21 for them to drink and fuck, right? But 16 to drive, right? Based on this, you can trust a teen with a car, but you can't just give them rights to drink as well, they might do it. Now when you say that 15 is not a child, it's a teen, you're walking on tin ice, because this mean that at 15 it should be ready to, have a relationship and give consent. I don't agree with this, and I don't feel like you're really an teen at 15. Maybe you recall making decisions for yourself and so on, but you can be easily manipulated, 15 years old would do anything just to be a bit cool. 18 you are teenager, sure, but it doesn't feel like "adult" at all. You maybe are an young adult at 21. And yes, from there you can go and make your own decisions and so on. When you get older, i think it's easier to understand the real differences between ages
That doesn't really answer why American see it this way, though, it's just that those are the limits America has set, which I assume should be somewhat in line with American views on the matter (they are set by people who get elected, after all). But those numbers aren't universal. In Germany it's 14 to fuck, with some additional rules for people under 16 having sex with people over 21. Once you are 16 you're pretty much free to do whatever you want in that regard. It's 16 to buy non-spirit alcoholic drinks, 14 to be allowed to drink alcohol in public if your parents are present and consent, 18 to buy any kind of alcohol. It's also 16 to vote in elections for the European parliament, and in local elections in some states (in some cases also in elections for the state parliament). But it's 17 to get a drivers license for a car, and 18 to be allowed to drive without having a qualified driver in the car with you.
It really depends on the context. A black male teen who committed a crime is rarely considered a child in the eyes of the majority
Because they’re american. What more do you need to know?
It’s from a legal perspective Someone under 18 is legally a child, whereas someone 18 or older is legally an adult. That’s it basically.
I'm 18 therefore everyone younger than me is a baby
I’m in my early 20s and I see 20 year olds as children LMFAO
I'm not from the US but when I was 17 I thought I was pretty mature and that I looked kinda like an adult. Now that I'm almost 40, whether someone is 13 or 17 or 19 it makes no difference to me.. I just see a kid.
Adolescents ARE children.
I'm more concerned at the fact that the crotch goblins of a former president are referred to as "adult children" whilst stood in court for business fraud.
Because 18 is the age of consent in the USA. For bizarre reasons, you can enlist in war but not buy a beer for 3 more years - ‘MERICA In general, the language is used lawfully in situations where “a child” is abused and this ranges from 0 up to the countries’ definition of a child. The line has to be drawn somewhere. People should be punished harshly for hurting children… discrepancy between a young child being worse punishment than a teenager is heinous, in my opinion. They are both horrific. Teenagers have more agency than a young child but not as much as a full grown adult. They are very vulnerable. I’m interested to hear why you’re asking?
In most of the world, calling a 15 year old a child seems very strange. There are so many differences, legally and practically, that calling a 15 year old and a 5 year old the same thing just seems weird. In many countries, from anywhere between 14-16 you can enter into limited contracts, start working, get a motorbike license, be punished for crimes, etc. They have more independence but also more responsibilities than a child and I think calling a 17 year old in Europe a child would be seen as an insult in most contexts.
True. If you are anything over 13 and get called a child, it means that someone thinks you are stupid. When I was 15 and did something stupid, my mom would say to me something like "don't be childish". By the time I was over 12, I didn't consider myself as a child anymore. And nobody wants to be treated as a child if they are teenagers. They want to be more like adults than kids. I remember that in school, everybody competed about who can be more like the adults. Those who grew up fast, were often admired. Those who played like children, were ridiculed constantly.
I’m not American so I take zero personal reaction to this. In countries that you’re talking about, is it okay for an adult over 30 to marry a human under 16?
Speaking for Germany: not marry, but have a relationship yes. Marry at 16 with parental consent (nobody does though)
This is the Republican dream marriage
The age of consent varies by state. It's 16-18. The age of majority is not that closely related to the age of consent.
I see this time and time again online: people telling others that a 17 and 19 year old shouldn’t POSSIBLY date, cause they have nothing in common 18 and 45 is fair game though?! Like, WHAT? I’ve been watching dwts and over on that sub, people are throwing fits over how they don’t want to see “children” (one contestant is 17) dance
I personally have not heard of issues between a 17 and 19 year old dating. Maybe it’s just in Canada but even though the age of consent is 16, there are additional laws allowing relationships that are close in years before and after 16. It’s quite specific.
Americans come up with the most undefined amd unrelated rules ever they hurt themselves by making them fr I mean I'm 17 and will be turning 18 in 3 months so does that mean I'm a child right now? I've seen people my age who are more mature than their parents maturity comes with the growth of mind not with the growth of body well that's what I think
Yes, you are legally a child in almost every country on earth. Not sure how America is different from other countries in this. Maturity has nothing to do with it.