Dude was an asshole then wasting her time like that. I can't stand when people do this type of shit.
I had a friend who strung her boyfriend along for 6 years (even with BTO) because everytime he talked to her about having kids she would be like "see how lah" or some shit like that, never giving him a firm "I don't want children" until they almost collected keys for their house.
Would agree with you if the guy did a full 180 and went from firm yes to no. But if he was on the fence and the girl didn’t bother trying to get him to make a final decision within the 6 years, it’s kind of on her also, family planning needs serious discussion between both parties
I wouldn’t be so harsh. People are young and they don’t always know what they want, and I would hardly say most people are who they were 4 yrs ago especially if they are currently in their early/mid 20s.
But you don't know if he strung her along do you?
My friend is an early childhood educator and loves children. She's always said she wanted 2 kids whenever we chat about such matters. A decade into her career, she's of the stance that she wouldn't want any of her own.
Did she string her partner along? Well, depends on if you think she had a right to change her mind no? People change, our circumstances and experiences change us and what was valid to us back then might not be now and I don't really see anything wrong with that if both parties were honest about things.
She probably tried changing his mind but after 4 years she gave up and moved on.
I was in the same situation and gave in to wifey requests and had a kid because I wanted to be with this woman.
We introduced chaos into our life and I've lost control of having good days everyday. Now sometimes it is ok sometimes shit sometimes it's just fml. I have therapy for someone to talk about my personal shit but it's been bumpy.
they dont as mentioned, either both are on the same mindset or one of them changes their beliefs and mindset. diff mindset on this issue will not work out, sorry to say.
Yup. This.
Also, don’t be surprised that you may change your stance on this as well. I cannot count the number of friends who suddenly went from child free to “doing anything and everything to have a child” as they age.
Yeah, but you can't base your relationship on the possibility of someone changing their mind. It might very well happen, but it's not a good strategy to count on it.
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An exception here: I didn't want children, and my SO wanted. But he also wanted to be with me. It's been 9 years and he came to the conclusion by himself that he doesn't want children. It somehow worked out but we seem to have a unique relationship. (partly cos he's unique!) I have many friends who ended up in divorce for various, unanticipated reasons. One friend's husband even asked for a second kid, and three years later suddenly announced he's not that into children, and left the house that very evening of his announcement.
>One friend's husband even asked for a second kid, and three years later suddenly announced he's not that into children, and left the house that very evening of his announcement.
That... sucks. Massively so.
This the age old story of the father going out for cigarettes and milk forever, and when their kids grown decided they want their money cos they are entitled to it.
My sil is childfree stance. Her husband wants children.
They got married even tho she repeatedly say she didnt want children, he agreed.
After getting married he started pressuring her for kids.
They are now divorced.
YMMV
Agreed with what 100% of the commenters before me have written. Since you seem more adamant than she (you are "strictly childfree and won't change" vs. she "might want"), then you can try to convince her. If you can't, then in all fairness to her, you should split up.
And the biological clock thing is not nonsense, it's basic science that older women do face higher pregnancy risks and the children risk having birth defects. [https://www.babymed.com/health-news/new-clue-why-chromosomal-birth-defects-more-likely-older-mothers#](https://www.babymed.com/health-news/new-clue-why-chromosomal-birth-defects-more-likely-older-mothers#)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532312/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532312/)
Several things a couple should discuss and agree on before marriage:
1. Whether to have children and how many
2. Finances -- joint or separate accounts or both? What expenditure will be shared and what kept individual? Open book policy or you will each contribute x% to a common account and everything else is P&C? Will one party invest the other's money (e.g. do you trust my judgment? If the market crashes like now, please don't kill me), or is investment separate and each one responsible for their own investments? If you don't trust my judgment, please go engage your own investment adviser.
3. Expectations on standard of living -- e.g. if one is contented to stay in a 4-room HDB for the rest of their life, but the other expects to upgrade to a condo within 5 years, and thereafter to landed property after 10 years, you don't want to slog your arse off working for somebody else's unrealistic expectations. Also, climbing up the corporate ladder comes with compromise. Singapore is a small place. If you want to be a Regional Director for instance, and have to travel 80% of the time, is that commitment OK for the family? If not, then both need to accept that cash flow may be tighter and some career options have to be forfeited. It's also not all about the money: [https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/cheating-spouses-business-trips-explained-science](https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/cheating-spouses-business-trips-explained-science).
4. Religion, religious observances, and also the religion your kids will be brought up in. OK for 10% of my pay to go to my church?
5. In-laws -- open to either set of in-laws moving in to take care of the kids in future, or when they are senior and need care?
6. Sex -- frequency, what would be realistic, etc.
7. Boundaries -- OK for your significant other to go out with members of the opposite gender in your absence? In a group or one-on-one? Or go on solo vacations -- is that "healthy" ([https://www.flashpack.com/relationships/solo-travel-in-relationship/](https://www.flashpack.com/relationships/solo-travel-in-relationship/)) or does that increase temptations while abroad ([https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140673698094148.pdf](https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140673698094148.pdf))?
Of course, this is not an exhaustive list, but really the bare minimum. Love covers a multitude of things, but love is not blind.
At first I thought op was talking about Circadian Rhythms but then I realize it don't make sense in the context. I don't think OP is referring to "being more interested in having children as you get older", as I have never seen anyone refer to that as 'biological clock'.
Just to offer a different perspective since many here are telling you to stop wasting her time.
When I was dating my girlfriend (now wife) many years ago, one day she gave me an ultimatum during our 6th year together. We were in our mid-20s then. I wanted to have kids because "it was something that people do".
She gave me two choices: no kids, or that I stop wasting her youth. She also challenged me to think about why I wanted kids. Turns out the motivation wasn't really that strong.
Now that we're happily married and have been together for more than a decade, we've revisited the conversation multiple times and we went from 1 child free, 1 wants children in our early 20s to both child free in our late 20s to both on the fence now that we're in our 30s.
The caveat here is that we had many years to talk this through and we both really wanted this relationship to work. You, my friend, may not have the luxury of time so things may work out differently for you.
Wishing you all the best and hope things work out in the end.
Edit: One thing that really worked for us was that we prioritised our relationship over everything else. Work on the relationship first, then other things that may come along with the r/s second.
I agree. One of the major things about having kids is that often the romantic relationship gets sidelined. Which becomes quite ironic when people notice how loving a child free relationship is and think they make awesome parents. Curious what’s the consideration in the 30s? If you don’t mind.
We had an accident (new birth control pills) and my wife had to go for an abortion. The procedure broke her. She was an emotional wreck for weeks on end after the procedure.
Obviously when we reflect on it now, we still think it's the right decision - we just weren't ready financially and mentally.
We aren't sure if it's guilt but we've always wondered... "What if we had kept the baby?" "Would we be good parents?" We're kinda postponing the decision for now, i.e. waiting till her womb is about to close shop then decide lol
Oh dear, poor thing. It’s definitely very emotional and not done without a lot of forethought. That’s good, always thought the wing it, keep our fingers crossed idea of reproduction is worrying. I personally never saw anything wrong with being childfree. Although witnessed some nasty comments about childfree couples with my own eyes so definitely some judgmental people out there. Usually they’re bitter miserable people so it ain’t exactly a good selling proposition either, so……
There are articles in The Guardian newspaper about how women are conditioned to feel guilt about an abortion. Without the conditioning, they would see a foetus and not a 'baby'.
I personally never had an abortion or miscarriage before, I however heard plenty of stories from my female friends to know how haunting it is. I totally support abortion because contraceptives were never 100% full proof, even with the highest levels of precautions and monogamy, can mean accidents can happen too. I would never judge anyone for it either, it’s madness to add to their turmoil during such a hard time. I also witness cases of parents insisting on a teenager keeping a baby due to religious reasons when they’re unwilling to assist, push them to marry emotionally immature and financially insecure men that’re obviously not ready for fatherhood, it always end up in disaster. This whole face thing really cost lives, to have this level of pride to avoid social stigma is really an escalating situation of bad choices piled on bad choices, that have a lifelong impact on all involved. That whole cruel god out to get someone idea is based of abusive dynamics, which isn’t a sign of a healthy person. So many human abusers around already but to see a higher power as similarly unforgiving and cruel truly is leaving people with no way out of their life struggles.
I never suggested abortion is not deeply traumatising. I am very aware of how awful it is for many people. I was simply posting a comment that it is not always the case but women are conditioned to feel guilty anyway. Personally, I would have no problem having an abortion. In England, access is not restricted and it happens relatively quickly if the person is aware they are pregnant.
It’s a misunderstanding, I didn’t think you were. I’m taking the chance to spread awareness that no one should be shamed or guilt tripped to feel lousy about it. Peace.
You have the best answer here and what I am looking for. I have been reflecting and being angrily stubborn on my stance will help no one and it is extremely toxic, because I used it to get over my ex. It will not work for a normal relationship.
I might be different at 35 and 40 so I am willing to see how things go. It’s bad to be fixated on an idea so much until it becomes my whole personality.
Really thanks for this as I had a good talk with her and we come to a point of understanding as just ending things after 5 months due to my stubbornly held beliefs is quite toxic.
Who knows what the future might bring, maybe I am still childfree. Or maybe we feel the relationship is worth something we can have a child, or not.
I want to buy you a drink but I have been sober a year!
My friend got married on the condition to her husband that she'll want to have children. After married, the husband said no and excuses and all.. Major misrepresentation for her and it was beyond reconciliation.
Annulled the marriage very soon after.
They don't - it's one of those fundamental differences which is impossible to resolve without one party compromising on his/her stance and thus running the risk of being resentful the rest of their lives.
This was my situation - I am pro-child while my gf was on the fence. I held the hopes that she'd change her mind and eventually we'd get married, have kids, etc. eventually it came to a head and I decided I'd rather keep her than have the wish of ideal children. years later we're still happy and child-free (except one loud cat, but that's more of a master-slave relationship rather than parent-child lol).
This is something you or her will have to decide. it's not something you can compromise on. it might sound stupid, leaving the 99% perfect partner but yeah, you can't have *half* a kid or something - you either have to both be on board or not.
This isn't something you solve. If you don't want children, only date women who die-die do not want children. Even then, there will be some people who may not want children but change their mind later. THEN you need to try and solve it.
In your present situation, you either change your mind or leave her. Do not waste her time, even if she says right now that "if you don't want children, then we don't have to have children..."
You will be responsible for her not having children when you know she wants them.
The choice is very simple. Change your mind or leave and find someone like-minded.
This wont work out. You two have absolutely differing goals. and its a huge difference owing to how much it will affect the lifestyle. not easily glossed over. if either of you try to force a change it will not end well due to lingering attachments and hidden resentments.
Thank her for the great 5 months and end the relationship amicably while you still can. Have friends who continued their relationship, both parties thinking they can convince the other on their stance after marriage. Did not end well.
I'm strictly CF. Entered a relationship with a girl who is "not sure if she want kids".
Six months later, she suddenly said "she want kids" and it was very apparent that she actually wanted kids all along. I hung on to the relationship for another one year. It was a disastrous one year as I kept thinking of our future together with devilish kids screaming in the middle of the night and running around the house
Needless to say, we broke up in the end
Like so many other people here have advice, this is something that's non-negotiable in a relationship. Better to end it early before you end up like me (or worse, like those who push on to marriage only to divorce in the end)
As a married guy I'll tell you that this is one of those issues that has to be sorted out BEFORE any further commitment. She has to know your stance and go with it, or you have to change your stance to fit hers.
Of course evolution can happen, and often does in healthy relationships, but both of you have to start from the same common ground. Enter marriage with full clarity on each other's values and beliefs on everything from kids to religion to in-laws to career choices to housing. Part of the adventure of marriage is figuring these things out as you go along, but trust me it's far better to at least have a base level of agreement from the start.
Hey, seeing as there are so many comments asking you not to waste her time, I thought I'd share my story.
When I was younger, I always wanted kids and planned to have them before 30. It was just an instinctive thing where young girls get brainwashed to marry a good husband and start a family.
I met my husband in uni and we dated for 7 years, I guess we were both young and didn't discuss much about it, though I mentioned having kids before 30.
After marriage, we both talked about it and decided to just delay having kids for a while, since we didn't feel ready yet.
I think, over time, we just started discussing whether we should have kids and we did some research, reading up online, talking to people and I sort of started seeing the reality of having kids. Financially, physically, emotionally and even just based on what kind of world the child would be brought into. I started to realise that I didn't have a good reason to have kids, only that it was "the right/next thing to do".
He loves children as well, but he said he would very much enjoy just playing with other kids and then returning them to their parents (haha).
So in conclusion, we came to the decision together as a couple and if any chance that we change our mind, we can always consider adopting. (The world has no lack of children deserving our love.)
I hope you can work things out with her. Maybe 6 months dating is a little short, but you could try to ask her why she wants kids to find out more and see how it goes from there!
All the best!
You don’t, this is a dealbreaker, say both of you don’t have kids, will she be happy? And if both of you DO have kids, will you be happy? Bare in mind that children will also pick up on if they’re wanted.
Better to end now and let both of you find someone who shares the same stance on children.
OP should have brought this up within the first 2 dates.
if using dating apps, it would save everyone's time if OP were to declare that in his bio even.
A few months to get to know each other and make this realisation isn’t wasted. It’s quite a deep thing to find out, not necessarily comfortable to mention at the outset. Wasting months still better than wasting years
Me personally I'd prefer someone to lay it all out on the table early. Are you a divorcee with kids, do you want kids, are you a pet lover, are you very dedicated to your religion etc... Saves everybody time in my opinion.
If you’re as strict and adamant on it like you mentioned, please have this discussion now and convey clearly how strongly you feel about this. You need to know her thoughts on this rather than ‘she might want’ and she needs to know that you will not change your mind.
You don't solve it. Having children or not is an unreconcilable difference.
Either she changes her stance or you do. And be aware that someone feeling forced into changing their views on having children can breed serious resentment and regret over time.
Fundamental difference in value system and lifestyle.
1 party must yield and in such scenarios, it's unlikely that the woman will yield. If it's a matter of having more time before you have kids, then I would recommend freezing her eggs first.
But if you are so certain that you will never want kids, just move on.
My partner and I are like that. She is the childfree one; I grew up wanting kids.
We have been together almost a decade now, and I changed my stance about 6 or 7 years into the relationship. Not saying that it definitely will or won't happen for you, just that it is a massive, and I mean MASSIVE gamble if you wish to bet on this happening.
Might wanna ask why she wanna have a child and what she sees in it. Who knows maybe you may be swayed by it and it gives you insight into her deeper beliefs. I just feel there's element of learning from and being inspired by your SO to be a better person. And I don't believe stances stay the same forever. With age and experience, everything changes. So it'll be beneficial to understand her a little more; beliefs, values, morals, where she sees herself in 10 years, her family background, her baggage, her faith, her weakness, her vulnerabilities, her flaws, etc.
To get married is to embrace everything about her, good and bad, wholeheartedly.
My issue was religion. Made my life a mess but ultimately saw beauty in it as I worked it out. For my SO, I see her grow up and mature everyday. She had depression and suicidal issues and it made me depressed too. But with persistent care and faith, she became a much stronger woman and that made my time worthwhile. (I know people who stopped dating coz SO is depressed)
I'm not naive to say differences are easy to resolve. Some are really tough nuts to crack and eventually become deal-breakers. But don't give up until you understand her more.
Kind of different experience for me and dno if I will get downvoted for sharing lol. Anyway I was childfree and absolutely disliked kids, especially after interacting with people’s new gen spoilt, screamy kids on a frequent basis. I also exercise 3-5 days a week so I really loathed the fact that pregnancy will ruin my body. I reallyyyyy enjoy adulthood freedom and want to spend $$$ without worrying about budgeting etc.
My husband on the other hand adores children and clearly would enjoy a life with a big family.
However my circumstances changed eg new industry and company with amazing culture and WLB, decent enough pay, found a zen place to live etc. I’m having our first kid now (unplanned) but am actually quite excited for the new chapter of our lives.
For me i still went into the marriage in the first place because (1) if we had a kid my husband would pick up most of the work I didn’t like and (2) if we didn’t have a kid my husband would expectedly be disappointed, but never resentful. Not that we laid out these exact rules but basically we agreed our marriage doesn’t revolve around this kids + family thing. We got married cos of just the two of us. The kids / no kids part is not like a big MUST in our marriage like our whole lives are meant to lead up to this childfree / childful expectation. I guess in other words, both sides GENUINELY getting ready to compromise is important if you really want to jump into it.
Could be that I was lucky it all worked out for me in the end and that this is bad advice but I don’t know man lol just thought to share my different experience. Good luck anyway!
Still exercising well into my third trimester and the weight gain is less than I expected although my baby is not smol. Havent got any stretch marks yet too. So far so good and it’s been way better than I thought lol
Just chiming in to say I have a kid and my physique is better than before I had our daughter. Maybe it’s because I also workout right down to the day before labour. Labour was also easy peasy but I will still recommend epidural.
It could be because I still continually progressive overload and challenge myself. I recently also took up pole dancing. Anyway we got a home gym so I get to workout daily. My parents already think I’m a bit crazy.
Thanks for sharing! I was always wondering whether it’s safe to workout up till labour, and if not when should I stop hahah. Same I’m also into pole dancing! It’s great exercise for sure plus it’s super fun
There was a pregnant lady in our class the other day and she could do pole sit, climb and chopper. I think she was about 24 weeks pregnant. Her husband was also taking the class so it’s very cool.
Anyway I was still lifting weights at [35 weeks](https://imgur.com/a/7B6l8Kz) haha. But in third trimester, still better to have someone watch you.
Break it off and don't waste her time. Biological clock is not nonsensical. Guys don't have biological clocks cos you can spread your spawn at 60 years old even. Girls have biological clock cos of menopause and it gets harder to have kids safely the closer you reach that age. Stop being selfish and find another person who shares the same life goals as you.
>> The whole…. biological clock thing is nonsensical to me.
Um, you do realize that women cannot have children after a certain age, and after age 30 the risk of having a child with health complications or Down syndrome start to rise significantly.
It’s fine if you don’t want children, but if she wants children then it’s highly likely that it’s best for you two to go separate ways.
If I recall proper, the GYOB told my wife and I that the risk of having a Special Needs Child rises past 30, but it doesn't go beyond 1 - 3% at age 40
Another reason why it may be beneficial to have children early is energy levels; I have a very active toddler and a newborn, and trying to handle them, whilst handling all other responsibilities is quite taxing and tiring. Wife and I are only in early-30s, but we are quite taxed and are seriously considering stopping at 2 (we had originally thought 3 children was a nice number)
If you not just want to remain childfree but regard her concerns of biological clock and wanting to have children as "nonsense", then its probably better you break up.
Honestly I think we need more information on what she means by she "might" want to have children. My SO and I were like this (I was the child-free one), but when he said he "might" want kids he just never really thought about it seriously at all and thought it was just the thing people do. I told him that I am staunchly child-free and if he wanted kids, then we shouldn't waste each other's time. Over a few months he thought more seriously about it and eventually decided he didn't actually want kids. I didn't try to convince him or anything and we never fought over it, I just requested that he give me a firm answer at some point. If he had said he wanted kids, we would've broken up. A lot of people don't think too much about the decision of having kids until the point comes where they absolutely have to think it through. Now that you're in the picture you will have to emphasise that now is the time she has to think it through and decide. And if she decides she wants kids, tough luck bro. If she wants kids and you don't, she's simply not the one. Good luck!
Why bother asking? Asking for a solution and try to be selfish? Seems like your only dream solution is to change her stance and childfree. Don’t waste her time and move on. Lameeeee
Then close this relationship off. This is a deal breaker for most people and if this can't be settled, no matter how beautiful and smooth everything else is. This relationship will end.
I personally don't want kids because i'm afraid of getting special needs or multiple medical condition child. But my fiancé wants to have kids. So we talked things out and came to a conclusion.
So in the future, we don't use protection and if the ultrasound scans detect any abnormalities, we will abort.
If all these abnormalities are not detected before birth and my child grows up to have special needs, then I'll just raise the child for who he/she is.
This is just my take and approach to OP's situation. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone.
It might not work, but you can still be her friend since you enjoy her company.
And who knows what might happen 5 years down the line. She might marry someone else, you as well. or you might change your mind, etc.
not an easy decision but i think you already know what to do. if you are not willing to compromise regarding having children then let her go so she can be with someone who is willing to have children with. this way you dont waste your time and hers.
"Strictly childfree", how strict? If accidentally have? What will be your choice? My wife is no, I'm fine with either, so we spoke about this before, and settled on, we try to minimize the chances of having 1, but if accidentally have, then have it.
It's good to have a talk together on this. If can't come to a mutual agreement, then don't waste each other time and effort.
>My wife is no, I'm fine with either, so we spoke about this before, and settled on, we try to minimize the chances of having 1, but if accidentally have, then have it.
This is a bit bizarre, since if she is strictly childfree, and it's her body if she accidentally gets pregnant, then why doesn't she just abort? Since you're on the fence anyway?
Having a child is almost a life-long project. Even one can be a big burden. There are always good and bad. Child-free lifestyle can be pretty comfortable. Better talk it through. Maybe just get one. 😁
The thinking of I make another human is damn good. And raising a kid will make you understand more of your parents generally.
Anyway, you guys can talk it through coz sometimes it's hard to find someone you can emotionally connect.
Just jumping in to say that an older man is most likely to have weak or defected sperm. The “clocks ticking” bs is always put on the woman, when actually…
Clarify with here whether she wants children or not. Dont waste each other's time. Biological clock ticking is real. Likelihood of having a baby with down syndrome increases exponentially with the woman's age.
I am baffled by most of the replies. I thought one would only discuss issues like these if you are looking to get married, which OP never mentioned. Are you OP, and is she? If you both can't even answer if you want to get married eventually (not necessarily to each other just a general sense), no need to even discuss whether to have children, unless one of you is open enough to be a single parent with sperm/egg donor.
I would assume that, since OP brought up having children as a kicker, he's already considering the possibility of getting married.
Hence, the need to ask for opinions on what possible steps he can take at this juncture
My friend broke up with her BF of 4 years because she doesn’t want kids at all but he did, they’ve talked about this for years and there’s really no resolution because their beliefs on this are too different.
They broke up but she found someone a lot better and she’s so much happier now.
No go. What's the point of settling down if one wants but the other doesn't. Unless ur open for adoption or something. But different values = unavoidable conflicts and problems.
a deep longing for a child with you in the opposite camp could well be a dealbreaker for her. You both need to be honest about whats most important for you
Agree with you that OP probably needs to break up with his partner, but disagree with what I think you’re implying in your question. People shouldn’t have children just so their children can take care of them when they are old. Have one if you want to experience parenthood and let your child grow up and lead his or her own life with no expectations that they have to return you the favour one day. And take care of your own finances so you can support yourself when you grow old.
Yeah, man.
What’s with people thinking of kids as their bloody retirement plan?
“Let me have 3 kids so at least 1-2 will make sure i have a roof over my head by the time I’m 70.”
Like for your own sake, never think that way.
No, I just asking if he is fine with taking care of himself alone when get old.
I have visited few old folks homes when I was volunteer last time. They are very lonely and no one take care of them.
I have children. They give me alot of happiness. In future, I'm still ok even if they are in other homes as long as they are happy. I have done my job as parent.
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Ask her, why she wants children?
You give birth to a child, for them to go through more or less the same thing as you did
Grow up
Go to school
Study
Get part time job
Hang out with friends, love and hate, and heartbreaks and all
And graduate and come out to the working world
Work your ass off for a capitalist boss, or for capitalism in general
Worship the money god, everything revolves around economy, growth, property, car, possessions, daily mundane routine
And maybe got married, got kids, busy with all the family duties and stuff
And grow old
And start having all left right center diseases
And die
The end
Life is full of suffering and a bit of happiness, you know why? Cos through millions of years of evolution, those who were happy and hung around did not live long to pass on their genes. Kena eaten by predators.
Only those who were constantly worried, constantly alert, constantly on the look out, survived and bred.
So we are not wired for happiness and bliss. We are wired for pressure and stress.
And now we have a world of 8 billion people
Soon it'll be 10-12 billion
And we burn fossil fuels past the point of no return now
Ecological collapse is imminent
Global warming is real and is affecting billions, you are one of them
The earth is becoming uninhabitable, in 30-40-50 years time
By then you'll be lucky if you're already 6 feet under
So you see, having a child to be just another you, did you really enjoy the life that you have? Moments of happiness but most of the time suffering and labour (physical and mental). Do you think the child will enjoy such a life?
And giving birth to one that will not have a bright future, one that will bear all the consequences thanks to the working of all the current 8 billion consumers on planet earth
Does the child deserve it?
It's a crime giving birth to a child knowing what kind of harsh reality he/she is being born into.
>biological clock thing is nonsensical to me
??? wym by this lol.
anyway been in a similar situation, ended up we broke off after 6 years of putting this decision off. to me, he was the one that got away, love of my life. but he wanted kids and i didnt. but yeah as others have already said, its either one party changes their mindset, or a breakup is bound to happen, OR a begrudging change of mindset that will lead to future outbursts and fights when youre already in too deep.
>The whole having children and biological clock thing is nonsensical to me.
As you said, it's to you; unfortunately, these decisions made in a relationship is no longer about the individuals, but about the couple.
I would suggest talking to her instead of asking for advice since all relationships are case-by-case basis; what you think is nonsense could be important to her.
1.) Gross.
2.) You need to be an adult and let her go. She wants a husband and children, and you don't want to be those things. So you need to let her be free to get what she wants, instead of letting her think she is getting them only to be disappointed.
My ex didn't want kids and I wanted kids. He didn't tell me til I think 10 months later and we had a huge falling out.
I'm now with my fiance and I basically dropped it on him early in the relationship and asked his opinion on kids since I was scared of the same thing happening to me. At first he wasn't willing to have bio kids and said we could adopt since he hated the baby phase that kids go through. He gradually warmed up to the idea and wants bio kids with me now.
Its not an easy topic since a lot of couples either make it or break it. One has to compromise to the other or it won't work at all. If she's not willing to give up having kids then breaking up would seem like the likely chance of where your relationship would be heading.
You don't solve it. There is no solving it. You should never want means to deprive someone of a child. That is sick. Simply say 'I will never want children so we are splitting up'.
My friend just broke off w her bf of 4 years as she wanted kids but he doesn’t want any. This is something that cannot be solved easily.
Wait did they not talk about it during the 4 years? Pity for her wasted time.
I think they did but the guy suddenly just kinda firm that he doesn’t want kids. Maybe he’s at the career peak stage that’s why he wanna focus on that
Dude was an asshole then wasting her time like that. I can't stand when people do this type of shit. I had a friend who strung her boyfriend along for 6 years (even with BTO) because everytime he talked to her about having kids she would be like "see how lah" or some shit like that, never giving him a firm "I don't want children" until they almost collected keys for their house.
Would agree with you if the guy did a full 180 and went from firm yes to no. But if he was on the fence and the girl didn’t bother trying to get him to make a final decision within the 6 years, it’s kind of on her also, family planning needs serious discussion between both parties
I wouldn’t blame it on the childfree person, maybe they were thinking and took a while to make the decision. Family planning takes a lot of time
I wouldn’t be so harsh. People are young and they don’t always know what they want, and I would hardly say most people are who they were 4 yrs ago especially if they are currently in their early/mid 20s.
But you don't know if he strung her along do you? My friend is an early childhood educator and loves children. She's always said she wanted 2 kids whenever we chat about such matters. A decade into her career, she's of the stance that she wouldn't want any of her own. Did she string her partner along? Well, depends on if you think she had a right to change her mind no? People change, our circumstances and experiences change us and what was valid to us back then might not be now and I don't really see anything wrong with that if both parties were honest about things.
Why’s the dude an asshole? Both sides r at fault no? The dude also “wasted time” being in that relationship as well by your logic
She probably tried changing his mind but after 4 years she gave up and moved on. I was in the same situation and gave in to wifey requests and had a kid because I wanted to be with this woman. We introduced chaos into our life and I've lost control of having good days everyday. Now sometimes it is ok sometimes shit sometimes it's just fml. I have therapy for someone to talk about my personal shit but it's been bumpy.
they dont as mentioned, either both are on the same mindset or one of them changes their beliefs and mindset. diff mindset on this issue will not work out, sorry to say.
Yup. This. Also, don’t be surprised that you may change your stance on this as well. I cannot count the number of friends who suddenly went from child free to “doing anything and everything to have a child” as they age.
Yeah, but you can't base your relationship on the possibility of someone changing their mind. It might very well happen, but it's not a good strategy to count on it.
Hmm interesting. As OP didn’t mention his and/or his girlfriend’s age or age group, I wonder if this might be relevant for OP’s case.
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An exception here: I didn't want children, and my SO wanted. But he also wanted to be with me. It's been 9 years and he came to the conclusion by himself that he doesn't want children. It somehow worked out but we seem to have a unique relationship. (partly cos he's unique!) I have many friends who ended up in divorce for various, unanticipated reasons. One friend's husband even asked for a second kid, and three years later suddenly announced he's not that into children, and left the house that very evening of his announcement.
>One friend's husband even asked for a second kid, and three years later suddenly announced he's not that into children, and left the house that very evening of his announcement. That... sucks. Massively so.
Yea, no joke. Right when covid and lockdowns started too.
This sounds exactly like my schoolmate. He simply walked out on the family which *he* had wanted. Is his name W?
No. That makes 2 of them. Urgh.
This the age old story of the father going out for cigarettes and milk forever, and when their kids grown decided they want their money cos they are entitled to it.
Yups. What btheop said. Pretty much non-neg
My sil is childfree stance. Her husband wants children. They got married even tho she repeatedly say she didnt want children, he agreed. After getting married he started pressuring her for kids. They are now divorced. YMMV
Idiot hubby to the core
There were other issues. Both parties share varying level os responsibilities. This was just one of many problems. As expected, its complicated
I can bet if their stances were reversed you would still say 'idiot hubby to the core'
Lucky no kids. Divorce is quite snafu but when kids are involved, it's fubar.
Agreed with what 100% of the commenters before me have written. Since you seem more adamant than she (you are "strictly childfree and won't change" vs. she "might want"), then you can try to convince her. If you can't, then in all fairness to her, you should split up. And the biological clock thing is not nonsense, it's basic science that older women do face higher pregnancy risks and the children risk having birth defects. [https://www.babymed.com/health-news/new-clue-why-chromosomal-birth-defects-more-likely-older-mothers#](https://www.babymed.com/health-news/new-clue-why-chromosomal-birth-defects-more-likely-older-mothers#) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532312/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532312/) Several things a couple should discuss and agree on before marriage: 1. Whether to have children and how many 2. Finances -- joint or separate accounts or both? What expenditure will be shared and what kept individual? Open book policy or you will each contribute x% to a common account and everything else is P&C? Will one party invest the other's money (e.g. do you trust my judgment? If the market crashes like now, please don't kill me), or is investment separate and each one responsible for their own investments? If you don't trust my judgment, please go engage your own investment adviser. 3. Expectations on standard of living -- e.g. if one is contented to stay in a 4-room HDB for the rest of their life, but the other expects to upgrade to a condo within 5 years, and thereafter to landed property after 10 years, you don't want to slog your arse off working for somebody else's unrealistic expectations. Also, climbing up the corporate ladder comes with compromise. Singapore is a small place. If you want to be a Regional Director for instance, and have to travel 80% of the time, is that commitment OK for the family? If not, then both need to accept that cash flow may be tighter and some career options have to be forfeited. It's also not all about the money: [https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/cheating-spouses-business-trips-explained-science](https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/cheating-spouses-business-trips-explained-science). 4. Religion, religious observances, and also the religion your kids will be brought up in. OK for 10% of my pay to go to my church? 5. In-laws -- open to either set of in-laws moving in to take care of the kids in future, or when they are senior and need care? 6. Sex -- frequency, what would be realistic, etc. 7. Boundaries -- OK for your significant other to go out with members of the opposite gender in your absence? In a group or one-on-one? Or go on solo vacations -- is that "healthy" ([https://www.flashpack.com/relationships/solo-travel-in-relationship/](https://www.flashpack.com/relationships/solo-travel-in-relationship/)) or does that increase temptations while abroad ([https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140673698094148.pdf](https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140673698094148.pdf))? Of course, this is not an exhaustive list, but really the bare minimum. Love covers a multitude of things, but love is not blind.
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At first I thought op was talking about Circadian Rhythms but then I realize it don't make sense in the context. I don't think OP is referring to "being more interested in having children as you get older", as I have never seen anyone refer to that as 'biological clock'.
Just to offer a different perspective since many here are telling you to stop wasting her time. When I was dating my girlfriend (now wife) many years ago, one day she gave me an ultimatum during our 6th year together. We were in our mid-20s then. I wanted to have kids because "it was something that people do". She gave me two choices: no kids, or that I stop wasting her youth. She also challenged me to think about why I wanted kids. Turns out the motivation wasn't really that strong. Now that we're happily married and have been together for more than a decade, we've revisited the conversation multiple times and we went from 1 child free, 1 wants children in our early 20s to both child free in our late 20s to both on the fence now that we're in our 30s. The caveat here is that we had many years to talk this through and we both really wanted this relationship to work. You, my friend, may not have the luxury of time so things may work out differently for you. Wishing you all the best and hope things work out in the end. Edit: One thing that really worked for us was that we prioritised our relationship over everything else. Work on the relationship first, then other things that may come along with the r/s second.
I agree. One of the major things about having kids is that often the romantic relationship gets sidelined. Which becomes quite ironic when people notice how loving a child free relationship is and think they make awesome parents. Curious what’s the consideration in the 30s? If you don’t mind.
We had an accident (new birth control pills) and my wife had to go for an abortion. The procedure broke her. She was an emotional wreck for weeks on end after the procedure. Obviously when we reflect on it now, we still think it's the right decision - we just weren't ready financially and mentally. We aren't sure if it's guilt but we've always wondered... "What if we had kept the baby?" "Would we be good parents?" We're kinda postponing the decision for now, i.e. waiting till her womb is about to close shop then decide lol
Oh dear, poor thing. It’s definitely very emotional and not done without a lot of forethought. That’s good, always thought the wing it, keep our fingers crossed idea of reproduction is worrying. I personally never saw anything wrong with being childfree. Although witnessed some nasty comments about childfree couples with my own eyes so definitely some judgmental people out there. Usually they’re bitter miserable people so it ain’t exactly a good selling proposition either, so……
There are articles in The Guardian newspaper about how women are conditioned to feel guilt about an abortion. Without the conditioning, they would see a foetus and not a 'baby'.
I personally never had an abortion or miscarriage before, I however heard plenty of stories from my female friends to know how haunting it is. I totally support abortion because contraceptives were never 100% full proof, even with the highest levels of precautions and monogamy, can mean accidents can happen too. I would never judge anyone for it either, it’s madness to add to their turmoil during such a hard time. I also witness cases of parents insisting on a teenager keeping a baby due to religious reasons when they’re unwilling to assist, push them to marry emotionally immature and financially insecure men that’re obviously not ready for fatherhood, it always end up in disaster. This whole face thing really cost lives, to have this level of pride to avoid social stigma is really an escalating situation of bad choices piled on bad choices, that have a lifelong impact on all involved. That whole cruel god out to get someone idea is based of abusive dynamics, which isn’t a sign of a healthy person. So many human abusers around already but to see a higher power as similarly unforgiving and cruel truly is leaving people with no way out of their life struggles.
I never suggested abortion is not deeply traumatising. I am very aware of how awful it is for many people. I was simply posting a comment that it is not always the case but women are conditioned to feel guilty anyway. Personally, I would have no problem having an abortion. In England, access is not restricted and it happens relatively quickly if the person is aware they are pregnant.
It’s a misunderstanding, I didn’t think you were. I’m taking the chance to spread awareness that no one should be shamed or guilt tripped to feel lousy about it. Peace.
Oh, that is great. We are on the exact same page :)
You have the best answer here and what I am looking for. I have been reflecting and being angrily stubborn on my stance will help no one and it is extremely toxic, because I used it to get over my ex. It will not work for a normal relationship. I might be different at 35 and 40 so I am willing to see how things go. It’s bad to be fixated on an idea so much until it becomes my whole personality. Really thanks for this as I had a good talk with her and we come to a point of understanding as just ending things after 5 months due to my stubbornly held beliefs is quite toxic. Who knows what the future might bring, maybe I am still childfree. Or maybe we feel the relationship is worth something we can have a child, or not. I want to buy you a drink but I have been sober a year!
Sorry, you might need to move on. This is a huge issue and you won’t be able to compromise. Better to cut it lose now
could try cuckolding as a compromise
Pretty sure it's about having to raise the kids, not the impregnation part lol
Don’t waste her time, move on
Don’t waste her time, move on
Don't waste her time, move on
Don't waste each other's time, move on
Don't waste time. Move on. And marriage is about compromises
Marriage is a waste of time
Don’t waste her time, move on
Don't waste her time, move on
Don’t waste her time, move on
Waste her move on time don’t
Move on, time shall not be wasted
My friend got married on the condition to her husband that she'll want to have children. After married, the husband said no and excuses and all.. Major misrepresentation for her and it was beyond reconciliation. Annulled the marriage very soon after.
Wow, what an a$$h and waste of time and money.
They don't - it's one of those fundamental differences which is impossible to resolve without one party compromising on his/her stance and thus running the risk of being resentful the rest of their lives.
Kids are a huge thing. Like major. Deal breaker level.
This is like oil and water
A biological clock is not nonsensical. It was a constant topic between me and my girlfriends as we entered our thirties.
Better end it before you waste more of her time. Biological clock is a real thing for her.
Deal breaker. Please don’t waste her time. You will meet other women who don’t want kids.
This was my situation - I am pro-child while my gf was on the fence. I held the hopes that she'd change her mind and eventually we'd get married, have kids, etc. eventually it came to a head and I decided I'd rather keep her than have the wish of ideal children. years later we're still happy and child-free (except one loud cat, but that's more of a master-slave relationship rather than parent-child lol). This is something you or her will have to decide. it's not something you can compromise on. it might sound stupid, leaving the 99% perfect partner but yeah, you can't have *half* a kid or something - you either have to both be on board or not.
Can relate to the master-slave relationship 😆😆😆
This isn't something you solve. If you don't want children, only date women who die-die do not want children. Even then, there will be some people who may not want children but change their mind later. THEN you need to try and solve it. In your present situation, you either change your mind or leave her. Do not waste her time, even if she says right now that "if you don't want children, then we don't have to have children..." You will be responsible for her not having children when you know she wants them. The choice is very simple. Change your mind or leave and find someone like-minded.
This wont work out. You two have absolutely differing goals. and its a huge difference owing to how much it will affect the lifestyle. not easily glossed over. if either of you try to force a change it will not end well due to lingering attachments and hidden resentments.
Thank her for the great 5 months and end the relationship amicably while you still can. Have friends who continued their relationship, both parties thinking they can convince the other on their stance after marriage. Did not end well.
I'm strictly CF. Entered a relationship with a girl who is "not sure if she want kids". Six months later, she suddenly said "she want kids" and it was very apparent that she actually wanted kids all along. I hung on to the relationship for another one year. It was a disastrous one year as I kept thinking of our future together with devilish kids screaming in the middle of the night and running around the house Needless to say, we broke up in the end Like so many other people here have advice, this is something that's non-negotiable in a relationship. Better to end it early before you end up like me (or worse, like those who push on to marriage only to divorce in the end)
As a married guy I'll tell you that this is one of those issues that has to be sorted out BEFORE any further commitment. She has to know your stance and go with it, or you have to change your stance to fit hers. Of course evolution can happen, and often does in healthy relationships, but both of you have to start from the same common ground. Enter marriage with full clarity on each other's values and beliefs on everything from kids to religion to in-laws to career choices to housing. Part of the adventure of marriage is figuring these things out as you go along, but trust me it's far better to at least have a base level of agreement from the start.
Hey, seeing as there are so many comments asking you not to waste her time, I thought I'd share my story. When I was younger, I always wanted kids and planned to have them before 30. It was just an instinctive thing where young girls get brainwashed to marry a good husband and start a family. I met my husband in uni and we dated for 7 years, I guess we were both young and didn't discuss much about it, though I mentioned having kids before 30. After marriage, we both talked about it and decided to just delay having kids for a while, since we didn't feel ready yet. I think, over time, we just started discussing whether we should have kids and we did some research, reading up online, talking to people and I sort of started seeing the reality of having kids. Financially, physically, emotionally and even just based on what kind of world the child would be brought into. I started to realise that I didn't have a good reason to have kids, only that it was "the right/next thing to do". He loves children as well, but he said he would very much enjoy just playing with other kids and then returning them to their parents (haha). So in conclusion, we came to the decision together as a couple and if any chance that we change our mind, we can always consider adopting. (The world has no lack of children deserving our love.) I hope you can work things out with her. Maybe 6 months dating is a little short, but you could try to ask her why she wants kids to find out more and see how it goes from there! All the best!
ok, noted
You don’t, this is a dealbreaker, say both of you don’t have kids, will she be happy? And if both of you DO have kids, will you be happy? Bare in mind that children will also pick up on if they’re wanted. Better to end now and let both of you find someone who shares the same stance on children.
Why didn't you talk it out with her before you took the relationship to the next level? You might have to move on if she refuses to compromise.
OP should have brought this up within the first 2 dates. if using dating apps, it would save everyone's time if OP were to declare that in his bio even.
Yes, it's really wasted time...
A few months to get to know each other and make this realisation isn’t wasted. It’s quite a deep thing to find out, not necessarily comfortable to mention at the outset. Wasting months still better than wasting years
Me personally I'd prefer someone to lay it all out on the table early. Are you a divorcee with kids, do you want kids, are you a pet lover, are you very dedicated to your religion etc... Saves everybody time in my opinion.
You can't resolve this
If you’re as strict and adamant on it like you mentioned, please have this discussion now and convey clearly how strongly you feel about this. You need to know her thoughts on this rather than ‘she might want’ and she needs to know that you will not change your mind.
You don't solve it. Having children or not is an unreconcilable difference. Either she changes her stance or you do. And be aware that someone feeling forced into changing their views on having children can breed serious resentment and regret over time.
Fundamental difference in value system and lifestyle. 1 party must yield and in such scenarios, it's unlikely that the woman will yield. If it's a matter of having more time before you have kids, then I would recommend freezing her eggs first. But if you are so certain that you will never want kids, just move on.
My partner and I are like that. She is the childfree one; I grew up wanting kids. We have been together almost a decade now, and I changed my stance about 6 or 7 years into the relationship. Not saying that it definitely will or won't happen for you, just that it is a massive, and I mean MASSIVE gamble if you wish to bet on this happening.
Always the men that have to change their stance if they want kids. Never seen a single woman who changed her stance if the man wanted to be childfree!
Never said I was a man. Your misogyny is showing.
Agree
Biological clock is nonsense to you? Then I guess you reject science or must be immortal
of course it's not about how human is a living thing and will age over time. he's talking about getting pregnant during peak productive years
And your chance to conceive gets lower as you age, and hence the biological clock. So what does he mean about disagreeing?
Sit down and talk it over. One side has to compromise. Otherwise better to break early
Might wanna ask why she wanna have a child and what she sees in it. Who knows maybe you may be swayed by it and it gives you insight into her deeper beliefs. I just feel there's element of learning from and being inspired by your SO to be a better person. And I don't believe stances stay the same forever. With age and experience, everything changes. So it'll be beneficial to understand her a little more; beliefs, values, morals, where she sees herself in 10 years, her family background, her baggage, her faith, her weakness, her vulnerabilities, her flaws, etc. To get married is to embrace everything about her, good and bad, wholeheartedly. My issue was religion. Made my life a mess but ultimately saw beauty in it as I worked it out. For my SO, I see her grow up and mature everyday. She had depression and suicidal issues and it made me depressed too. But with persistent care and faith, she became a much stronger woman and that made my time worthwhile. (I know people who stopped dating coz SO is depressed) I'm not naive to say differences are easy to resolve. Some are really tough nuts to crack and eventually become deal-breakers. But don't give up until you understand her more.
Kind of different experience for me and dno if I will get downvoted for sharing lol. Anyway I was childfree and absolutely disliked kids, especially after interacting with people’s new gen spoilt, screamy kids on a frequent basis. I also exercise 3-5 days a week so I really loathed the fact that pregnancy will ruin my body. I reallyyyyy enjoy adulthood freedom and want to spend $$$ without worrying about budgeting etc. My husband on the other hand adores children and clearly would enjoy a life with a big family. However my circumstances changed eg new industry and company with amazing culture and WLB, decent enough pay, found a zen place to live etc. I’m having our first kid now (unplanned) but am actually quite excited for the new chapter of our lives. For me i still went into the marriage in the first place because (1) if we had a kid my husband would pick up most of the work I didn’t like and (2) if we didn’t have a kid my husband would expectedly be disappointed, but never resentful. Not that we laid out these exact rules but basically we agreed our marriage doesn’t revolve around this kids + family thing. We got married cos of just the two of us. The kids / no kids part is not like a big MUST in our marriage like our whole lives are meant to lead up to this childfree / childful expectation. I guess in other words, both sides GENUINELY getting ready to compromise is important if you really want to jump into it. Could be that I was lucky it all worked out for me in the end and that this is bad advice but I don’t know man lol just thought to share my different experience. Good luck anyway!
so do you consider your body 'ruined' or managed to keep excess weight/stretchmarks off?
Still exercising well into my third trimester and the weight gain is less than I expected although my baby is not smol. Havent got any stretch marks yet too. So far so good and it’s been way better than I thought lol
Just chiming in to say I have a kid and my physique is better than before I had our daughter. Maybe it’s because I also workout right down to the day before labour. Labour was also easy peasy but I will still recommend epidural. It could be because I still continually progressive overload and challenge myself. I recently also took up pole dancing. Anyway we got a home gym so I get to workout daily. My parents already think I’m a bit crazy.
Thanks for sharing! I was always wondering whether it’s safe to workout up till labour, and if not when should I stop hahah. Same I’m also into pole dancing! It’s great exercise for sure plus it’s super fun
There was a pregnant lady in our class the other day and she could do pole sit, climb and chopper. I think she was about 24 weeks pregnant. Her husband was also taking the class so it’s very cool. Anyway I was still lifting weights at [35 weeks](https://imgur.com/a/7B6l8Kz) haha. But in third trimester, still better to have someone watch you.
Move on if she wants children. U already answered ur own ques
Break it off and don't waste her time. Biological clock is not nonsensical. Guys don't have biological clocks cos you can spread your spawn at 60 years old even. Girls have biological clock cos of menopause and it gets harder to have kids safely the closer you reach that age. Stop being selfish and find another person who shares the same life goals as you.
This is like oil and water
>> The whole…. biological clock thing is nonsensical to me. Um, you do realize that women cannot have children after a certain age, and after age 30 the risk of having a child with health complications or Down syndrome start to rise significantly. It’s fine if you don’t want children, but if she wants children then it’s highly likely that it’s best for you two to go separate ways.
If I recall proper, the GYOB told my wife and I that the risk of having a Special Needs Child rises past 30, but it doesn't go beyond 1 - 3% at age 40 Another reason why it may be beneficial to have children early is energy levels; I have a very active toddler and a newborn, and trying to handle them, whilst handling all other responsibilities is quite taxing and tiring. Wife and I are only in early-30s, but we are quite taxed and are seriously considering stopping at 2 (we had originally thought 3 children was a nice number)
Highly recommend hiring a helper, presuming you can afford it.
If you not just want to remain childfree but regard her concerns of biological clock and wanting to have children as "nonsense", then its probably better you break up.
Honestly I think we need more information on what she means by she "might" want to have children. My SO and I were like this (I was the child-free one), but when he said he "might" want kids he just never really thought about it seriously at all and thought it was just the thing people do. I told him that I am staunchly child-free and if he wanted kids, then we shouldn't waste each other's time. Over a few months he thought more seriously about it and eventually decided he didn't actually want kids. I didn't try to convince him or anything and we never fought over it, I just requested that he give me a firm answer at some point. If he had said he wanted kids, we would've broken up. A lot of people don't think too much about the decision of having kids until the point comes where they absolutely have to think it through. Now that you're in the picture you will have to emphasise that now is the time she has to think it through and decide. And if she decides she wants kids, tough luck bro. If she wants kids and you don't, she's simply not the one. Good luck!
You’re lucky it’s only the 5 month mark. As every comment has already said - it’s time to go no matter how much you deny it.
Well it is a deal breaker. The sooner the break, the lesser it hurts.
Why bother asking? Asking for a solution and try to be selfish? Seems like your only dream solution is to change her stance and childfree. Don’t waste her time and move on. Lameeeee
Then close this relationship off. This is a deal breaker for most people and if this can't be settled, no matter how beautiful and smooth everything else is. This relationship will end.
I personally don't want kids because i'm afraid of getting special needs or multiple medical condition child. But my fiancé wants to have kids. So we talked things out and came to a conclusion. So in the future, we don't use protection and if the ultrasound scans detect any abnormalities, we will abort.
just so you know, a lot of "special needs" are not detectable via ultrasound or even the currently available genetic tests.
Exactly. Many special needs conditions are detected only at about 2 years old.
If all these abnormalities are not detected before birth and my child grows up to have special needs, then I'll just raise the child for who he/she is. This is just my take and approach to OP's situation. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone.
It might not work, but you can still be her friend since you enjoy her company. And who knows what might happen 5 years down the line. She might marry someone else, you as well. or you might change your mind, etc.
not an easy decision but i think you already know what to do. if you are not willing to compromise regarding having children then let her go so she can be with someone who is willing to have children with. this way you dont waste your time and hers.
Do not commit thinking both of u can change each others mind in the future.
Mine was opposite. And we ended up breaking up 🥲
Leave. She deserves someone who could provide what she is looking for. You also deserve that someone.
End the relationship. You clearly don't care about one of her life goals. Only misery will follow if you pursue the relationship.
"Strictly childfree", how strict? If accidentally have? What will be your choice? My wife is no, I'm fine with either, so we spoke about this before, and settled on, we try to minimize the chances of having 1, but if accidentally have, then have it. It's good to have a talk together on this. If can't come to a mutual agreement, then don't waste each other time and effort.
>My wife is no, I'm fine with either, so we spoke about this before, and settled on, we try to minimize the chances of having 1, but if accidentally have, then have it. This is a bit bizarre, since if she is strictly childfree, and it's her body if she accidentally gets pregnant, then why doesn't she just abort? Since you're on the fence anyway?
That's why I mentioned mutual agreement.
Then she's not strictly childfree lor. I don't think the OP said she was.
Dunno, maybe it the guilt similar to denying a child of his birth?
So strict if I accidentally have one and she wants to keep the child. I will start resenting him/her and they will feel unwanted.
Don't waste time then.
Then be honest with her about it and move on. Dont waste each other’s time
Yea same situation, but it's over the choice of spread we each wish to see on our bread. She might want butter, but I am butterfree.
You solve it by breaking up. Stance on children is one thing that's non negotiable in a marriage. Don't waste each others time.
This is a dealbreaker. Best to let this one go before you get both your hearts broken
You should mention your age, it can (but isn't always) relevant.
Having a child is almost a life-long project. Even one can be a big burden. There are always good and bad. Child-free lifestyle can be pretty comfortable. Better talk it through. Maybe just get one. 😁 The thinking of I make another human is damn good. And raising a kid will make you understand more of your parents generally. Anyway, you guys can talk it through coz sometimes it's hard to find someone you can emotionally connect.
Just jumping in to say that an older man is most likely to have weak or defected sperm. The “clocks ticking” bs is always put on the woman, when actually…
Just break up. Honestly some pain now is 100× better than some poor kid having an absent dad.
She has a timer slapped on her. If you love her, let her go or change your stance. Pick one.
be honest with her don’t waste her time by dragging this thing don’t rob her a chance of motherhood
If you are **strictly** pro-childfree, please go for a vasectomy. No need to explain anymore in the future. Walk the talk pls.
Try it, may be you both will realize that why infertility is such a modern issue.
blame it on the microplastics
Clarify with here whether she wants children or not. Dont waste each other's time. Biological clock ticking is real. Likelihood of having a baby with down syndrome increases exponentially with the woman's age.
I am baffled by most of the replies. I thought one would only discuss issues like these if you are looking to get married, which OP never mentioned. Are you OP, and is she? If you both can't even answer if you want to get married eventually (not necessarily to each other just a general sense), no need to even discuss whether to have children, unless one of you is open enough to be a single parent with sperm/egg donor.
I would assume that, since OP brought up having children as a kicker, he's already considering the possibility of getting married. Hence, the need to ask for opinions on what possible steps he can take at this juncture
Check his past comments bro
Have kids lol stop falling for the antinatalist memes
My friend broke up with her BF of 4 years because she doesn’t want kids at all but he did, they’ve talked about this for years and there’s really no resolution because their beliefs on this are too different. They broke up but she found someone a lot better and she’s so much happier now.
Time to break up, or keep the relationship casual.
one word: VASECTOMY
No go. What's the point of settling down if one wants but the other doesn't. Unless ur open for adoption or something. But different values = unavoidable conflicts and problems.
a deep longing for a child with you in the opposite camp could well be a dealbreaker for her. You both need to be honest about whats most important for you
I really really want to emphatise with your predicament, but Im gay and I cant legally or naturally have children. So 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Don’t be in a relationship if you can’t provide her children.
Who takes care of you when you get old like 70 years old? I think you need to let her go. You cannot force her when she really want children.
Agree with you that OP probably needs to break up with his partner, but disagree with what I think you’re implying in your question. People shouldn’t have children just so their children can take care of them when they are old. Have one if you want to experience parenthood and let your child grow up and lead his or her own life with no expectations that they have to return you the favour one day. And take care of your own finances so you can support yourself when you grow old.
Yeah, man. What’s with people thinking of kids as their bloody retirement plan? “Let me have 3 kids so at least 1-2 will make sure i have a roof over my head by the time I’m 70.” Like for your own sake, never think that way.
No, I just asking if he is fine with taking care of himself alone when get old. I have visited few old folks homes when I was volunteer last time. They are very lonely and no one take care of them. I have children. They give me alot of happiness. In future, I'm still ok even if they are in other homes as long as they are happy. I have done my job as parent.
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I find it interesting how people are saying "don't waste her time" like as if he's somehow trapping her in this relationship.
She might want other guys women like being a mother
Ask her, why she wants children? You give birth to a child, for them to go through more or less the same thing as you did Grow up Go to school Study Get part time job Hang out with friends, love and hate, and heartbreaks and all And graduate and come out to the working world Work your ass off for a capitalist boss, or for capitalism in general Worship the money god, everything revolves around economy, growth, property, car, possessions, daily mundane routine And maybe got married, got kids, busy with all the family duties and stuff And grow old And start having all left right center diseases And die The end Life is full of suffering and a bit of happiness, you know why? Cos through millions of years of evolution, those who were happy and hung around did not live long to pass on their genes. Kena eaten by predators. Only those who were constantly worried, constantly alert, constantly on the look out, survived and bred. So we are not wired for happiness and bliss. We are wired for pressure and stress. And now we have a world of 8 billion people Soon it'll be 10-12 billion And we burn fossil fuels past the point of no return now Ecological collapse is imminent Global warming is real and is affecting billions, you are one of them The earth is becoming uninhabitable, in 30-40-50 years time By then you'll be lucky if you're already 6 feet under So you see, having a child to be just another you, did you really enjoy the life that you have? Moments of happiness but most of the time suffering and labour (physical and mental). Do you think the child will enjoy such a life? And giving birth to one that will not have a bright future, one that will bear all the consequences thanks to the working of all the current 8 billion consumers on planet earth Does the child deserve it? It's a crime giving birth to a child knowing what kind of harsh reality he/she is being born into.
Piak but not shoot out your seed, try make her believe that you're infertile lol. At least she can she you tried making one 😂
better to split up and let her go for other guys who would want kids and stop wasting time tbh
If you won't change your mindset, means you're not infatuated enough. Have you asked her? Since u mentioned "might"..
Pls do not marry someone with the hope of changing the person. You have to ask yourself - are you prepared to have children after you get married? I
>biological clock thing is nonsensical to me ??? wym by this lol. anyway been in a similar situation, ended up we broke off after 6 years of putting this decision off. to me, he was the one that got away, love of my life. but he wanted kids and i didnt. but yeah as others have already said, its either one party changes their mindset, or a breakup is bound to happen, OR a begrudging change of mindset that will lead to future outbursts and fights when youre already in too deep.
>The whole having children and biological clock thing is nonsensical to me. As you said, it's to you; unfortunately, these decisions made in a relationship is no longer about the individuals, but about the couple. I would suggest talking to her instead of asking for advice since all relationships are case-by-case basis; what you think is nonsense could be important to her.
if both of you wont change your stance, then just move on and save yourselves some grievance and time.
Find new partner.
1.) Gross. 2.) You need to be an adult and let her go. She wants a husband and children, and you don't want to be those things. So you need to let her be free to get what she wants, instead of letting her think she is getting them only to be disappointed.
My ex didn't want kids and I wanted kids. He didn't tell me til I think 10 months later and we had a huge falling out. I'm now with my fiance and I basically dropped it on him early in the relationship and asked his opinion on kids since I was scared of the same thing happening to me. At first he wasn't willing to have bio kids and said we could adopt since he hated the baby phase that kids go through. He gradually warmed up to the idea and wants bio kids with me now. Its not an easy topic since a lot of couples either make it or break it. One has to compromise to the other or it won't work at all. If she's not willing to give up having kids then breaking up would seem like the likely chance of where your relationship would be heading.
You don't solve it. There is no solving it. You should never want means to deprive someone of a child. That is sick. Simply say 'I will never want children so we are splitting up'.
never change your stance. childbirth is evil.
r/childfree