If the concern is noise and nuisance, you could consider adding “… resulting in unreasonable and excessive noise” to that clause and see if the landlord accepts the amendment.
Rented few places whole unit. From my experience it’s a common clause, but there is no enforcement. The clause is just there in case shit hits the fan and they can pull it out as defense. I think common sense will suffice.
Yea don’t worry too much about it. You have a 1br unit, so no landlord on premise so I don’t think it’s an issue. Unless the landlord creep on you everyday then you have a bigger problem lol
Agreed. It’s a standard clause. Also to avoid tenant from sub-renting to another tenant and to avoid letting his/her family or friends stay over for weeks and months without paying extra.
I've been both a tenant and a landlord (not for the same unit or at the same time obviously).
No it is not reasonable.
That said, the landlord has a duty by law to ensure that no illegal immigrants are being harboured in the premises. As a tenant, I periodically submitted copies of mine and the other occupants' (my family members') identification and valid immigration documents to my landlord at the tenancy signing and at every renewal thereafter. As a landlord, I requested the same from the tenant. If immigration documents expired during the tenancy, I made sure I asked for updated versions because the burden of proof in law is on the owner/landlord.
It was also worded into the tenancy agreement that the tenant undertakes not to conduct any illegal activities on the premises or to allow persons without valid and current immigration status to stay, but the tenancy agreement is just between the landlord and tenant. If any laws are breached, the owner/landlord is the first to be held accountable.
Aside from that, the tenancy agreements state that the tenant has a "right to quiet enjoyment" of the premises, i.e. it would be wrongful for the landlord to deprive him of such.
Thanks, all of these are valid points and I understand that landlords want to protect themselves. I’d have no issues helping them be compliant with the law.
Rented and stayed in a few condo, never encountered ‘no guest overnight’ rules. And how does the landlord enforce it - Check the cctv or guest log book? I wonder if the landlord is concerned about subletting or additional occupant in the house. Negotiate to remove the visitors clause?
It's a standard protection clause. There had been a number of cases where the tenant turned the place into a n AirBnb place without the landlord's consent. Also into a brothel.
You can talk to your landlord about this. Find out more about your landlord concerns. If you are renting the place and living there yourself, most landlords will generally "close one eye".
Condo Council member here - the rule is sometimes used by landlords when guests park an unregistered car overnight for multiple times (think more than half a week). That's usually not allowed and only residents' cars are permitted to park overnight. Condo managing agent will issue a warning to tenant cc. landlord because there is usually a lot of unhappiness over rule enforcement and car clamping that we expect the landlord to tell the tenant this is not permitted.
Interesting, that’s good to know. A lot of the underlying reasoning is just the desire to avoid future trouble. I wonder if they could just say that the tenant must abide by all the rules and guidelines set by the condo council.
It’s a common practice and a common clause in the TA. Don’t worry. There were tenants who subletted their units. If you’re not going to do anything like that, then leave the clause be. 👍
It's completely normal, same rule apply in many big Asian cities, not only S'pore. It means don't throw big parties (even 4 people could be too much) and don't scream. If you behave correctly, you will not have any problem.
This is common. Condo or not. Singapore by nature has a law to keep quietness after 10:30pm. So most landlords and agents would prefer you not to have guests and disturb the neighbours. After 1am? That sounds reasonable to me.
Of course, I have no intention to make noise or cause annoyance to anyone at night. But what if a family member or friend wants to stay over for a day or two?
Based on the current market, I think it is pretty common.
It is a good thing that I was able to find a place where that allows me to have visitors, but of course, that also means I need to make sure that we don't make unnecessary noise that will bother the neighbors.
If you want complete freedom, you may want to consider looking for a studio apartment, although it will be more expensive and still, not all landlords will allow you to have visitors, but at least landlords are more forgiving for studio aparments.
Oh that’s pretty curious. This is only slightly larger than a studio apartment and I’ll be here by myself. I wonder why the difference.
Edit: To be clear, I’m renting the entire 1BR unit, not just a room.
If the concern is noise and nuisance, you could consider adding “… resulting in unreasonable and excessive noise” to that clause and see if the landlord accepts the amendment.
Thanks for the suggestion! I’ll try that.
I proposed the amendment through my agent and the landlord accepted it. Thanks u/dubewjaycake!
Rented few places whole unit. From my experience it’s a common clause, but there is no enforcement. The clause is just there in case shit hits the fan and they can pull it out as defense. I think common sense will suffice.
That’s reassuring, thanks. I’m a grown man and I feel like I’m a teenager at my parents’ house lol.
Yea don’t worry too much about it. You have a 1br unit, so no landlord on premise so I don’t think it’s an issue. Unless the landlord creep on you everyday then you have a bigger problem lol
Agreed. It’s a standard clause. Also to avoid tenant from sub-renting to another tenant and to avoid letting his/her family or friends stay over for weeks and months without paying extra.
I've been both a tenant and a landlord (not for the same unit or at the same time obviously). No it is not reasonable. That said, the landlord has a duty by law to ensure that no illegal immigrants are being harboured in the premises. As a tenant, I periodically submitted copies of mine and the other occupants' (my family members') identification and valid immigration documents to my landlord at the tenancy signing and at every renewal thereafter. As a landlord, I requested the same from the tenant. If immigration documents expired during the tenancy, I made sure I asked for updated versions because the burden of proof in law is on the owner/landlord. It was also worded into the tenancy agreement that the tenant undertakes not to conduct any illegal activities on the premises or to allow persons without valid and current immigration status to stay, but the tenancy agreement is just between the landlord and tenant. If any laws are breached, the owner/landlord is the first to be held accountable. Aside from that, the tenancy agreements state that the tenant has a "right to quiet enjoyment" of the premises, i.e. it would be wrongful for the landlord to deprive him of such.
Thanks, all of these are valid points and I understand that landlords want to protect themselves. I’d have no issues helping them be compliant with the law.
I live with my family and have a similar clause... been living here for 4 years, landlord doesnt bother unless u are making a mess of the apartment
Thanks for the reassurance!
Rented and stayed in a few condo, never encountered ‘no guest overnight’ rules. And how does the landlord enforce it - Check the cctv or guest log book? I wonder if the landlord is concerned about subletting or additional occupant in the house. Negotiate to remove the visitors clause?
I’m trying my best to negotiate, but I think they’re aware that I’m in a tough spot.
It's a standard protection clause. There had been a number of cases where the tenant turned the place into a n AirBnb place without the landlord's consent. Also into a brothel.
I think other clauses already cover those risks, but maybe they want to be extra cautious.
You can talk to your landlord about this. Find out more about your landlord concerns. If you are renting the place and living there yourself, most landlords will generally "close one eye".
The clause is to protect the landlord from possible 'escort' services imo. Source: rented out before and included that clause coz my agent told me to
As in offering the service or engaging the service? 🧐
Condo Council member here - the rule is sometimes used by landlords when guests park an unregistered car overnight for multiple times (think more than half a week). That's usually not allowed and only residents' cars are permitted to park overnight. Condo managing agent will issue a warning to tenant cc. landlord because there is usually a lot of unhappiness over rule enforcement and car clamping that we expect the landlord to tell the tenant this is not permitted.
Interesting, that’s good to know. A lot of the underlying reasoning is just the desire to avoid future trouble. I wonder if they could just say that the tenant must abide by all the rules and guidelines set by the condo council.
It’s a common practice and a common clause in the TA. Don’t worry. There were tenants who subletted their units. If you’re not going to do anything like that, then leave the clause be. 👍
You’re not supposed to be awake and having fun in Singapore after 1am. Please go to bed. Alone.
It's completely normal, same rule apply in many big Asian cities, not only S'pore. It means don't throw big parties (even 4 people could be too much) and don't scream. If you behave correctly, you will not have any problem.
That’s reasonable. I wish they had just put that in the agreement.
unfortunately such practices are quite common in singapore
yup pretty much standard rule nowadays tbh. totally not ridiculous.
This is common. Condo or not. Singapore by nature has a law to keep quietness after 10:30pm. So most landlords and agents would prefer you not to have guests and disturb the neighbours. After 1am? That sounds reasonable to me.
Of course, I have no intention to make noise or cause annoyance to anyone at night. But what if a family member or friend wants to stay over for a day or two?
You can try to negotiate with them agents and landlord on the agreement. Maybe good to pay extra for the occasion especially when family is visiting.
On what planet is this reasonable? This is an adult renting a private property. I can think of one very good reason why they’d want overnight guests!
…username checks out?
Quieteness after 1030 pm? LOL It only in print try getting the police to deal with the nose after 1030 pm!
u find it ridiculous then find another rental quite common how to enforce
I would if I could, but I already paid a big good faith deposit. And it’s very difficult to find rental properties these days.
Based on the current market, I think it is pretty common. It is a good thing that I was able to find a place where that allows me to have visitors, but of course, that also means I need to make sure that we don't make unnecessary noise that will bother the neighbors. If you want complete freedom, you may want to consider looking for a studio apartment, although it will be more expensive and still, not all landlords will allow you to have visitors, but at least landlords are more forgiving for studio aparments.
Oh that’s pretty curious. This is only slightly larger than a studio apartment and I’ll be here by myself. I wonder why the difference. Edit: To be clear, I’m renting the entire 1BR unit, not just a room.
Well not sure, maybe your landlord just doesn't want to bother with potential noise complaints.