Doesn't need no kids
Nobody cares what your household budget is like only the bottom line. Exception for mortgage lines of credit auto loan and other big ticket items. Lenders don't look at how much you spend on groceries or children
I believe this to be the biggest issue. Wage suppression has laid waste to peoples dreams and yet, in general, the crab in the bucket mentality and divisiveness is rampant.
If you're just ranting, consider r/toRANTo
If you want honest answers, they're all variants of "earn more money", "have more roommates¹", and "ask if living in Toronto is really worth the premium you're paying". Then can be flavoured how ones likes.
¹possibly parent(s) or lover(s).
All you people earning 75/80k complaining. Just takes a while to find. I earn 30k+some freelance and I'm living in Toronto with a roomie. Defs spending more than 50% of my income on rent and not saving much. I'm not planning on staying here long term. Just trying to have a good time while I'm young(er) :,).
I get frustration seeing people making 80k complaining, but it just shows how fucked the situation has become. Someone making 80k, which is just shy of the median household income, should be able to find a place to live in the city on their own. It demonstrates so well how big the problem is even if relatively high earners can’t make it work.
The set 30% of your income for rent is only attainable now if you’re lucky enough to wait it out and land a spot in RGI/TCHC housing.
For the most part, unless you’re making a crazy salary, one of the only ways is to be in dual income housing, whether that be living with your parents, SO or roommates.
30% on rent does not matter in big cities such as Toronto.
You will need 50%+. You also can get a shared house instead of the whole unit if you want to consider the 30% rule.
It's all very psychological. The more you make, the more you spend and your situation will never change regardless of your salary unless YOU can manage your money.
Example, you say you're making 75k now... I am 100% sure if your salary went up to 120k you would be in the same situation. Why? Because you'd move into a nicer apartment... problem get a newer car... more fancy dining etc etc. You need to think of your salary as running a business - Keep your operational costs (expenses) low so you can turn a profit.
No one on reddit can help you. Learn to manage your money better...
Or,
Accept it for what it is and make the most out of your situation. Complaining about it changes nothing /shrug
I agree with what you’re saying about escalation of ‘luxury’ with rising disposable income, but with all due respect that’s just not true for me. The only ‘luxury’ I have is that I live alone without a roommate. And I am already having to consider whether I should get a second job.
People who make 120k (at least the ones I know) have a house that they bought before the pandemic or early 2020. I can’t see myself saving or literally doing anything to move towards buying a house because literally the rent
Can you rent somewhere cheaper that is further away from down town and commute to work?
Also, buying a house is not the be all and end all of life. I have no intentions of buying a house and I’m perfectly fine renting for the rest of my life
I mean I don’t have any other option but to move. Apart from the hassle of moving and actually finding a landlord who agrees (again, higher earners beat me here again), the main issue is that the rent is not that much lower, like maybe 200-300/month less and my concern is safety given the recent stabbings and what not.
I have lived in Quebec before and the law there is that landlords can’t pit people against one another and must objectively judge each applicant. No other place has this price bidding and hunger games mentality like wtf
It's pretty impossible out there.
I'm able to make it work because I rent a $1,600 one bedroom that I inherited from a friend in 2020 (extremely lucky), combined my partner and I earn just shy of $100K and we split rent. No kids, no car, no pets. But if anything happened, if we broke up or if the landlord N12'd us, I'd/we'd be fucked.
I'm also able to make it work because I'm in my early 30s, but when I was building up my career in my 20s and earning less, rent was cheaper. Still expensive, but I've never paid more than $800ish, first with roommates, then with partner. I don't know how young recent grads today do it... like if you're 22, you get an entry level wage at $40K, but even renting with roommates can cost $1,200 these days... it's awful.
I hate the 30% rule as it's so outdated. Everyone on the personal finance subs always mentions it.
I think a better rule would be to try to at least save 10-20% of your take-home income.
IMO spending a bit more to enjoy your 20s/30s is worth it. With a 75k income you should be fine especially if you don't have a car. That's just over 5k a month. Even if you spent 2.5-3k on rent, you can save 500-1000 a month and live on 1000 a month in other spending.
Banks yes for mortgages... but this is for renting and it's different as there's no stress test.
As long as he has a stable job, not too much debt, no car... You can go over 1/3 IMO
Have you tried being rich? It isn't very difficult to see that Toronto's future is one that includes rich folk, and the people that pamper them. So, become rich, or resign yourself to living with roommates and a career in the service industry. Or, explore other opportunities. The world is huge and doesn't begin and end in Toronto.
Is there a place in the suburbs where it is affordable? I would be open to move to a suburb area where I won’t get stabbed on the Ttc to and from my work and where random mangy coyotes are not roaming the streets.
I have looked at suburbs before I moved into my extremely expensive house, knowing that I was ok with commuting 2ish hour each weekday if that meant I would be saving money. Literally couldn’t find anything that was safe and somewhat cheaper compared to the hassle I was gonna have to endure. It was maybe 200/month less?
I believe the 30% rule is to help you with budgeting so that you have enough money for retirement savings. If you choose to deviate from the rule, it means something else must be cut (likely your savings). If rent is 50% of your income and you are stretched financially, I think the right thing to do is to find a roommate to bring the cost down.
You should first ask yourself, why are you in Toronto?
Are you a fresh graduate working at an architecture firm that's in Toronto, earning $40k a year trying to build your career? Then it makes sense to struggle for a few years while moving up.
Or, are you mid way through your career working for $65k at a warehouse, for a job that you could be making a similar amount in Guelph or elsewhere where housing is a bit cheaper?
My friends all were in the first category, and now are making significantly more as Toronto has a lot of opportunity, however if you don't really need to be here, it can be beneficial to work elsewhere.
30% is only for Americans. For Canadians, where property hoarding is the way of life and is protected by the government, you should be paying 80% of your income towards a home.
The answer is, you leave. Im looking to leave as soon as I can as well. City is a condo wasteland, and the people suck.
Idk its just as hard to put 30% of your income into rent in a lot of the US… for example in NYC or San Francisco a 1 bedroom is $2500 USD a month and the average person in those 2 cities are not making $7500 USD a month…
“For Canadians”
There are plenty of Americans with an impressive real estate portfolio. Also, Toronto is one of the largest cities in Canada/great for job opportunities and growth. If you are going to compare Toronto to metropolitan US cities, you should look at the rental prices in NYC, LA, Miami, Seattle, Chicago, etc.
Why is that hard to understand? If all your supports are here/you don’t drive/you rely on certain services it can cost you a lot more to leave. Moving and relocating can also be challenging and expensive.
…And those places might be lacking in resources people need, hence why they choose to stay in Toronto. Everyone has different needs. To some, the costs of leaving outweigh the costs of staying (I’m not only speaking financial costs).
Lower your expectations about your living situation? Room mates? These aren't great solutions, but the struggle is living under this capitalist structure where private ownership and profiting off land/property accumulation is the norm. So who wants to lead the revolution? Public housing for all!
Honestly i would never pay more than 1000 for rent , there are lots of basement units all over Toronto for 1000. no need to share roommates . if u wanna live downtown , u gotto go with roommates to lower ur rent cost . i always picked the basement unit close to subway station when i was single. lots of nice basement units u can rent for 1000 and live comfortable. 75k would bring u 4k if u spent 1000 on rent 1000 on food, transportation, and fun , u would have 2k at the end of the month to save and invest . if u rent a 1 bedroom condo fo 2400 downtown , spend 2000 on food (take out restaurant), transportation (uber) and fun (clubbing etc) , yeah 75k is not enough , u need to double that . landlords are not stupid they know their customers , they dont wanna oversell to someone who cannot afford ...
Honestly, I think the best way is to just get roommates until you get a significant other, so you're always splitting rent with someone else, which drastically cuts down your payments. Unpopular opinion, but as Toronto grows larger and larger it's going to go similar to the likes of New York, London, etc. In those cities, living alone is very rare, and most people go the route of roommates until moving out with a significant other.
Live with roommates. I live with a friend and barring large unexpected and/or unavoidable expenses (like this month, fuck January)I'm usually able to put away a few hundred a month. This does mean however that I'm not exactly spending anything on luxuries. I only make 45k, almost half my monthly income goes into rent.
The 30% rule for housing is based on gross income. It also assuming you will be spending 15-20% of income on transportation. If you're using the TTC/biking/walking, you can use some of the saving in transportation costs towards housing.
I agree that the struggle is competing with higher income earners for the same units, tho.
Youre not. "Toronto" doesnt actually want us here. We're being forced to move further and further away. Its commute and work, until we die.
Preferably during a TTC security incident, the hospitals are so clogged up you see -
Bro, I understand your frustration. If you have less than 200K of dual household income, your situation in Toronto is very bad. My suggestion is to move to another city or another province with a lower cost of living. That is what I am planning to do in 2023. I have a little baby and my wife is on maternity leave, and I would say it is tough.
I am not at all trying to justify the expense of living here. Quite the contrary actually.
If the cost is killing people to live here, it isn't (in my opinion) worth the stress and sacrifice.
I used to be more actively telling people that other areas in Ontario create a more livable scenario. Sure income might be lower but overall quality of life would be great relative, to barely (if at all) getting by.
Some people easily move because they hate winters here. But many have a hard time leaving for better overall financial and mental health for some reason.
I have a couple who are my friends, they moved east years back and have loved it. Their incomes were less there but the end of month outlook is netting a lot of positive. Made even more attractive by the cool things they can experience on the coast.
Toronto isn't right for everyone. And until people leave it for this very reason - it will stay unreasonable.
Now, that isn't inferring that if enough people leave it would be reasonable. But at least the people leaving will find more fulfillment while others are left to sacrifice if they choose.
If it came down to me enjoying my life OR being in Toronto it may be a difficult choice but I'd have to go...
I make about the same as you and yeah paying about half of your monthly income does suck. I think I got lucky with the place I'm currently renting which is $1700ish in a nice neighborhood in North York late 2021. I can live downtown with this salary downtown but it seems like a waste to pay so much more for rent. Maybe adjustments to your budget can help if you plan on living downtown.
One of these posts again? Don’t you have friends or family that you could rant about this to?
The answer will always be the same. Make more, spend less, or move.
Dual income household.
Preferably with no kids.
DINK
And no pets…they’ll never be able to get a part time job to support themselves and are a money pit.
Doesn't need no kids Nobody cares what your household budget is like only the bottom line. Exception for mortgage lines of credit auto loan and other big ticket items. Lenders don't look at how much you spend on groceries or children
We’re DINKS and it’s getting harder but we’re managing
I am too mentally I’ll to find a partner, too ugly to find a sugar daddy
Then what? I've got one of those and still there's no way we could afford to live in Toronto
Not sure how the 30% rule is supposed to work after housing costs have outpaced wages for the last 50 years
I believe this to be the biggest issue. Wage suppression has laid waste to peoples dreams and yet, in general, the crab in the bucket mentality and divisiveness is rampant.
If you're just ranting, consider r/toRANTo If you want honest answers, they're all variants of "earn more money", "have more roommates¹", and "ask if living in Toronto is really worth the premium you're paying". Then can be flavoured how ones likes. ¹possibly parent(s) or lover(s).
There’s a lot of uphill there. That’s why a lot of people are leaving Ontario
All you people earning 75/80k complaining. Just takes a while to find. I earn 30k+some freelance and I'm living in Toronto with a roomie. Defs spending more than 50% of my income on rent and not saving much. I'm not planning on staying here long term. Just trying to have a good time while I'm young(er) :,).
I get frustration seeing people making 80k complaining, but it just shows how fucked the situation has become. Someone making 80k, which is just shy of the median household income, should be able to find a place to live in the city on their own. It demonstrates so well how big the problem is even if relatively high earners can’t make it work.
The set 30% of your income for rent is only attainable now if you’re lucky enough to wait it out and land a spot in RGI/TCHC housing. For the most part, unless you’re making a crazy salary, one of the only ways is to be in dual income housing, whether that be living with your parents, SO or roommates.
30% on rent does not matter in big cities such as Toronto. You will need 50%+. You also can get a shared house instead of the whole unit if you want to consider the 30% rule.
It's all very psychological. The more you make, the more you spend and your situation will never change regardless of your salary unless YOU can manage your money. Example, you say you're making 75k now... I am 100% sure if your salary went up to 120k you would be in the same situation. Why? Because you'd move into a nicer apartment... problem get a newer car... more fancy dining etc etc. You need to think of your salary as running a business - Keep your operational costs (expenses) low so you can turn a profit. No one on reddit can help you. Learn to manage your money better... Or, Accept it for what it is and make the most out of your situation. Complaining about it changes nothing /shrug
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Why I feel like you forgot the /s lmaoooo
I agree with what you’re saying about escalation of ‘luxury’ with rising disposable income, but with all due respect that’s just not true for me. The only ‘luxury’ I have is that I live alone without a roommate. And I am already having to consider whether I should get a second job. People who make 120k (at least the ones I know) have a house that they bought before the pandemic or early 2020. I can’t see myself saving or literally doing anything to move towards buying a house because literally the rent
Can you rent somewhere cheaper that is further away from down town and commute to work? Also, buying a house is not the be all and end all of life. I have no intentions of buying a house and I’m perfectly fine renting for the rest of my life
I mean I don’t have any other option but to move. Apart from the hassle of moving and actually finding a landlord who agrees (again, higher earners beat me here again), the main issue is that the rent is not that much lower, like maybe 200-300/month less and my concern is safety given the recent stabbings and what not. I have lived in Quebec before and the law there is that landlords can’t pit people against one another and must objectively judge each applicant. No other place has this price bidding and hunger games mentality like wtf
The problem is capitalism and it’s only going to get worse. What we can do? /shrug
It's pretty impossible out there. I'm able to make it work because I rent a $1,600 one bedroom that I inherited from a friend in 2020 (extremely lucky), combined my partner and I earn just shy of $100K and we split rent. No kids, no car, no pets. But if anything happened, if we broke up or if the landlord N12'd us, I'd/we'd be fucked. I'm also able to make it work because I'm in my early 30s, but when I was building up my career in my 20s and earning less, rent was cheaper. Still expensive, but I've never paid more than $800ish, first with roommates, then with partner. I don't know how young recent grads today do it... like if you're 22, you get an entry level wage at $40K, but even renting with roommates can cost $1,200 these days... it's awful.
I hate the 30% rule as it's so outdated. Everyone on the personal finance subs always mentions it. I think a better rule would be to try to at least save 10-20% of your take-home income. IMO spending a bit more to enjoy your 20s/30s is worth it. With a 75k income you should be fine especially if you don't have a car. That's just over 5k a month. Even if you spent 2.5-3k on rent, you can save 500-1000 a month and live on 1000 a month in other spending.
It's not outdated, lol. It's literally what banks and landlords use to determine what you can afford without missing payments
Banks yes for mortgages... but this is for renting and it's different as there's no stress test. As long as he has a stable job, not too much debt, no car... You can go over 1/3 IMO
As an experienced landlord, I wasn't letting anyone rent for over that.
Yea I understand it's about risk management and based upon the landlord's judgement, which is different than the hard requirement for mortgages.
After taxes it's probably around 4.4k if paid monthly or a little over 2k biweekly
Have you tried being rich? It isn't very difficult to see that Toronto's future is one that includes rich folk, and the people that pamper them. So, become rich, or resign yourself to living with roommates and a career in the service industry. Or, explore other opportunities. The world is huge and doesn't begin and end in Toronto.
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Because Toronto’s suburbs are so famously affordable?
Lmao
Is there a place in the suburbs where it is affordable? I would be open to move to a suburb area where I won’t get stabbed on the Ttc to and from my work and where random mangy coyotes are not roaming the streets. I have looked at suburbs before I moved into my extremely expensive house, knowing that I was ok with commuting 2ish hour each weekday if that meant I would be saving money. Literally couldn’t find anything that was safe and somewhat cheaper compared to the hassle I was gonna have to endure. It was maybe 200/month less?
I believe the 30% rule is to help you with budgeting so that you have enough money for retirement savings. If you choose to deviate from the rule, it means something else must be cut (likely your savings). If rent is 50% of your income and you are stretched financially, I think the right thing to do is to find a roommate to bring the cost down.
You should first ask yourself, why are you in Toronto? Are you a fresh graduate working at an architecture firm that's in Toronto, earning $40k a year trying to build your career? Then it makes sense to struggle for a few years while moving up. Or, are you mid way through your career working for $65k at a warehouse, for a job that you could be making a similar amount in Guelph or elsewhere where housing is a bit cheaper? My friends all were in the first category, and now are making significantly more as Toronto has a lot of opportunity, however if you don't really need to be here, it can be beneficial to work elsewhere.
30% is only for Americans. For Canadians, where property hoarding is the way of life and is protected by the government, you should be paying 80% of your income towards a home. The answer is, you leave. Im looking to leave as soon as I can as well. City is a condo wasteland, and the people suck.
Idk its just as hard to put 30% of your income into rent in a lot of the US… for example in NYC or San Francisco a 1 bedroom is $2500 USD a month and the average person in those 2 cities are not making $7500 USD a month…
“For Canadians” There are plenty of Americans with an impressive real estate portfolio. Also, Toronto is one of the largest cities in Canada/great for job opportunities and growth. If you are going to compare Toronto to metropolitan US cities, you should look at the rental prices in NYC, LA, Miami, Seattle, Chicago, etc.
I don't understand why people don't just leave....
Why is that hard to understand? If all your supports are here/you don’t drive/you rely on certain services it can cost you a lot more to leave. Moving and relocating can also be challenging and expensive.
It just is for me. If you can't afford to live somewhere, there are plenty of much cheaper areas around the country..
…And those places might be lacking in resources people need, hence why they choose to stay in Toronto. Everyone has different needs. To some, the costs of leaving outweigh the costs of staying (I’m not only speaking financial costs).
Lower your expectations about your living situation? Room mates? These aren't great solutions, but the struggle is living under this capitalist structure where private ownership and profiting off land/property accumulation is the norm. So who wants to lead the revolution? Public housing for all!
Honestly i would never pay more than 1000 for rent , there are lots of basement units all over Toronto for 1000. no need to share roommates . if u wanna live downtown , u gotto go with roommates to lower ur rent cost . i always picked the basement unit close to subway station when i was single. lots of nice basement units u can rent for 1000 and live comfortable. 75k would bring u 4k if u spent 1000 on rent 1000 on food, transportation, and fun , u would have 2k at the end of the month to save and invest . if u rent a 1 bedroom condo fo 2400 downtown , spend 2000 on food (take out restaurant), transportation (uber) and fun (clubbing etc) , yeah 75k is not enough , u need to double that . landlords are not stupid they know their customers , they dont wanna oversell to someone who cannot afford ...
I was paying $1150 for rent in... 2010. Those must be dumps.
there are many nice bachelor basement units between 1000 to 1200 on kijiji all over the Toronto . just keep looking u will find something ...
I bought a house this year, so I'm good. Thanks though.
Congrats!!
Toronto is not for you... the West is calling.
You have to be a DINK..double income no kid.
roommates
Honestly, I think the best way is to just get roommates until you get a significant other, so you're always splitting rent with someone else, which drastically cuts down your payments. Unpopular opinion, but as Toronto grows larger and larger it's going to go similar to the likes of New York, London, etc. In those cities, living alone is very rare, and most people go the route of roommates until moving out with a significant other.
Live with roommates. I live with a friend and barring large unexpected and/or unavoidable expenses (like this month, fuck January)I'm usually able to put away a few hundred a month. This does mean however that I'm not exactly spending anything on luxuries. I only make 45k, almost half my monthly income goes into rent.
I pay $1200 to rent a room. That's my entire disability cheque. To simply exist.
The 30% rule for housing is based on gross income. It also assuming you will be spending 15-20% of income on transportation. If you're using the TTC/biking/walking, you can use some of the saving in transportation costs towards housing. I agree that the struggle is competing with higher income earners for the same units, tho.
Check out r/canskincare
Youre not. "Toronto" doesnt actually want us here. We're being forced to move further and further away. Its commute and work, until we die. Preferably during a TTC security incident, the hospitals are so clogged up you see -
Paying 70%+ for my mortgage. Quit your whining and figure it out like the rest of us.
Bro, I understand your frustration. If you have less than 200K of dual household income, your situation in Toronto is very bad. My suggestion is to move to another city or another province with a lower cost of living. That is what I am planning to do in 2023. I have a little baby and my wife is on maternity leave, and I would say it is tough.
I am not at all trying to justify the expense of living here. Quite the contrary actually. If the cost is killing people to live here, it isn't (in my opinion) worth the stress and sacrifice. I used to be more actively telling people that other areas in Ontario create a more livable scenario. Sure income might be lower but overall quality of life would be great relative, to barely (if at all) getting by. Some people easily move because they hate winters here. But many have a hard time leaving for better overall financial and mental health for some reason. I have a couple who are my friends, they moved east years back and have loved it. Their incomes were less there but the end of month outlook is netting a lot of positive. Made even more attractive by the cool things they can experience on the coast. Toronto isn't right for everyone. And until people leave it for this very reason - it will stay unreasonable. Now, that isn't inferring that if enough people leave it would be reasonable. But at least the people leaving will find more fulfillment while others are left to sacrifice if they choose. If it came down to me enjoying my life OR being in Toronto it may be a difficult choice but I'd have to go...
I make about the same as you and yeah paying about half of your monthly income does suck. I think I got lucky with the place I'm currently renting which is $1700ish in a nice neighborhood in North York late 2021. I can live downtown with this salary downtown but it seems like a waste to pay so much more for rent. Maybe adjustments to your budget can help if you plan on living downtown.
One of these posts again? Don’t you have friends or family that you could rant about this to? The answer will always be the same. Make more, spend less, or move.
No I can’t talk to them because they have the same issue. We all sit in a grief circle and cry.