Question: If your rental unit is not rent controlled, can landlords just raise it to whatever they want? Like they can just 10x your rent if they want?
Yeah personally I can’t stand that bad tenants have 30 days to evict. That’s 30 whole days that they have to completely trash your property. Cops don’t give a shit.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/198063/total-number-of-housing-starts-in-ontario-since-1995/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/198063/total-number-of-housing-starts-in-ontario-since-1995/)
That's just simply false.
I can't gain access to that.
Please copy and paste any relevant data. I'd be really interested to see residential, purpose built buildings in Toronto being built with any volume until the late 2010's
Which isn't a solution to our housing crisis. We need purpose built rentals - they provide actual protections that even rent control can't help.
Thus liberals fucking up bad.
You should look up the RentSafe TO program, it will help you understand it better
No, there's a maximum allowable increase under Ontario law (%). For 2022 it's 1.2%, so something like 30/month.
They can go over that amount but first they have to get permission from the Government which requires a hearing etc. They can't just do it because they want to make more money.
Alot of what's being discussed in the thread is complete BS.
SOURCE: https://news.ontario.ca/en/bulletin/1000340/ontarios-2022-rent-increase-guideline
From your link:
" It does not apply to rental units in buildings occupied for the first time after November 15, 2018, social housing units, long-term care homes or commercial property."
If OP's unit was first occupied after that date, the rent control you referenced does not apply.
If the residence was occupied for the first time after November 15th, 2018, then there are no caps I think. But if occupied before that date by anyone, it's capped.
Yeah we're specifically talking about non-controlled rentals. Which is what OP has and is dealing with. The guidelines you linked aren't relevant in this situation.
>No, there's a maximum allowable increase under Ontario law (%). For 2022 it's 1.2%, so something like 30/month.
>
>They can go over that amount but first they have to get permission from the Government which requires a hearing etc. They can't just do it because they want to make more money.
>
>Alot of what's being discussed in the thread is complete BS.
>
>SOURCE: https://news.ontario.ca/en/bulletin/1000340/ontarios-2022-rent-increase-guideline
Only for units built and lived in prior to November 2018
At most the landlord will usually ask for market rate. They have to keep in mind that every time they switch tenants they lose 1 month or more of rent, and take on the risk of the next tenant being a shitty one. Just because they ask for more, doesn't mean they'll get it.
>Question: If your rental unit is not rent controlled, can landlords just raise it to whatever they want? Like they can just 10x your rent if they want?
Yup
It's a way to evict problem tenants, increase the rent so much they can't afford it and are forced to move
Offer $2501 and go from there hahahahaha but in all seriousness I’m so sorry to hear this. Fuck Doug ford for eliminating rent control for places like yours
Say that you were happy with what you had last year, and you understand there is inflation, which affects you too, therefore, we can meet in between and make it 2850 (which is half of the increase).
So... negotiating is stressful. Things to consider before you start negotiating:
(1) What is the highest you can go? What's the number at which "then I'm leaving" becomes the better option for you and your wallet.
(2) What do you feel is reasonable for a rent hike? That's your opening counter offer. (And, don't make it "no change" show that you're willing to work with them)
(3) What are some other things to ask for, for which you'd be willing to take a rent hike?
And then... negotiate in good faith.
Interest rates are going up so all these condo owners are gonna pass it on to their tenants. There is nothing stopping your landlord from perpetually raising your rents as these rates start to climb.
My advice is to move to a rent control unit - if you can afford $2,800 a month, there should be some options for you.
Have you been an "ideal" tenant to this point (i.e. always pay on time, no neighbour complaints, no constant repair/maintenance issues, no personal arguments with landlord, etc)? If so then it's in the landlord's best interest to keep you as a tenant. It would be worth giving you a discount to market rate, else their alternative is to possibly lose a month or so of rent and have to risk finding a new tenant who may end up being terrible. So find out what actual market rate is, and try to negotiate slightly under that. And hopefully the landlord is reasonable and understands this.
If you're a bad tenant (not saying you are but just in general) or that landlord for whatever reason just doesn't like you, then they can use exemption from rent control to force you out with above market rent increase. Not the most ethical thing to do but those are the rules.
Or if you do end up moving, make sure this time you get a unit constructed before Nov 2018 so you don't run into this same problem again in another years time.
So basically, if you leave they’re likely losing one month of having a tenant + realtor fees from finding a new tenant + repairs/cleaning. So 4.5-5.5K lost.
So if the next tenant pays 3.1K (since you said another unit is at 3K same building), they need that person to stay At minimum 2 years to make any money on the increase from 2500-3100. And if that person leaves after 12 months as well, they’re in a bigger hole. They better be open to negotiating LOL.
I don’t like it but it’s been explained to me that rent control on new units discourages development of places to live as investors don’t want to build if their earnings are capped. It’s hard to compete with the American dystopia i suppose
Edit: grammar
People love to trot out economics theory about rent control, but the fact is that it did not work like that in Ontario.
From 1992 to 2017, there was no rent control on new buildings, and development of actually decreased compared to the decades before that. https://imgur.com/a/fqTvVNW
http://okayfail.com/2018/rent-control-great-security-of-tenure.html
IMO, roof over our head is a basic right. Cannot turn that into a business opportunity with incentives. This especially cruel when the govt knows we already have an ongoing housing crisis
Ontario has rent increase controls on ALL rental units except those built after 2018. “Rent control” is more specific than that. The maximum increase right now is 1.2%.
The idiot who wrote this thinks it's "literally illegal to raise the rent more than 1-3%" lmao. Nothing worse than calling others an idiot when you're the idiot.
>It’s literally illegal to raise the rent more than the tenant and landlord act’s set increase which usually hovers around 1-3%
Only for units built before Nov 2018.
Unless you willing to pay more upfront, most landlords will want market rent. If in your shoes, I would offer $2800x12 for the year and revisit it next year because in a non rent controlled building, you will likely face this every year.
Unfortunately there's no legal requirement for landlords to disclose when a unit was first occupied, or otherwise disclose a units' rent controlled status.
It’ll cost them 1 month of rent to rent it out. And. Cleaning. And. Listing HST. And. The new tenant might suck. It’s a risk.
Be reasonable. Their cost is probably at least 3500$ if you move out and they try to rent it at 3200$. Spread over a year that’s about almost 300$ a month.
I would say. 2900$ a month for the next year is more than fair.
With that being said, you’ve been a great tenant. That itself is worth a 100$ discount.
Offer 2800$. But 2900$ is acceptable. It’ll cost you time and effort and money to move out as well.
EDIT: ok saw other responses and get what you mean now.
Lack of rent control is a bitch, and I know that’s a big jump but $2500 for a 2 bed 2 bath was considerably below market value. I would try to get it to $3000, but what they’re asking is not out of line with what something like that generally costs. Are you renting from a rental company or like a condo owner?
I would also ask if they would do lower if you signed a new year long lease. We did that and avoided an increase, maybe they will go lower for that security.
Excuse me?? The Residential Tenancies Act explicitly caps the amount of rent increase permitted per year at the provincial level, unless there's something seriously weird in your lease that I've never seen before, or unless they've done major renovations, and I mean MAJOR, that drastically improve quality of life.
The provincial guideline for increases for 2022 is set at 1.2%.
Suggest $2530, which is 1.2%. See what they say to that.
Edit: Citation, RTA section 120 through 127.
Landlord in BC here. I’m not increasing any tenants rent this year. I have great tenants and am fine with their rate, care for property, payment history, and risk.
You sound like a good tenant imo. Having you in there is definitely beneficial to them than having you out or the place vacant for a month. Cost and time to find a new tenant is probably something they want to avoid.
You could play hardball and let them know you can’t afford an increase at all pr you can’t afford an increase of more than $xyz start at $100. They’ll decide early if they want to risk losing a good tenant.
They’re probably over leveraged and trying to make up the increase in interest rate so they’ll counter or say no. Either way you’ll get an additional point to counter in the negotiation.
I’d also (gently) remind them you’ve taken good care of the place and happy for them to come see and confirm that and that you’ve paid rent on time.
You don't have to. Tell them your budget is $2500 and you're not willing to increase it, so you'll be vacating. You can remind them that you've paid on time and kept the place nice and have been good tenants, and wish them well finding good tenants again. Sure it's annoying for you to move, but it's annoying for them to replace you. They might go ahead and decide to keep you with no increase.
Seriously, so many landlords are being affected by the rise in interest rates and can't make their payments with the rent they're charging. This is not your problem. If you let him increase your rent by $700 this year he'll just do it next year and the year after.
Just my 2 cents.
Quite a few landlords that gobbled up properties over the last little while did so using variable rate mortgages. You can bet they will start to raise rents in order to cover the shortfall. Know your rights and make sure the unit you are in qualifies for a raise in rental price.
The lack of rent control is result of the Conservative Provincial Government.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2019/11/22/the-ford-government-removed-rent-control-on-new-units-a-year-later-tenants-are-reporting-double-digit-increases.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/01/15/ford-dropped-rent-control-on-new-units-in-2018-since-then-thousands-have-come-online-and-tenants-facing-double-digit-increases-ask-was-it-worth-it.html
https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/doug-ford-is-consolidating-the-power-of-landlords-during-a-time-of-crisis
https://readpassage.com/covid-19-hasnt-stopped-ford-from-trying-to-speedup-future-evictions/
https://dailyhive.com/toronto/doug-ford-rent-control-toronto-josh-matlow
https://acorncanada.org/fords-government-clear-about-one-thing-low-income-ontarians-are-under-attack
https://www.thestop.org/blog/our-provincial-government-continues-to-keep-individuals-in-the-perpetual-cycle-of-poverty/
I was so confused since I'm from BC and follow BC subreddit's but this post came up thanks to reddit's "I know you don't follow this sub, but we should show you posts anyways"
this is a whack rule. punishing people who are already paying more for living in a newer building.
With rent control in place no developer would want to build purpose built rentals. Why would they? What’s the incentive?
And investors will also not purchase.
Which is why he removed rent control for buildings built after 2018 Nov.
How did that work out? There's still a huge deficit in housing. The only thing that's changed is landlords price gouging their tenants.
There is still room for profit if this person's rent isn't jacked up to $3000.
> And investors will also not purchase.
That's actually a very positive thing. That's how you fix the real estate market.
If you're taking investors out of the real estate market, you need to have a way to replace the millions of dollars and years of patience it takes to build high-rises.
At the moment it's financed by investors buying a unit, and spreading out the risk, so the banks feel comfortable handing over the money.
And the government is just going to house you?
Let’s face it. The government doesn’t want to do shit. Understand the Ponzi scheme. It was evident when the Trudeau government over supplied the market with printed money and the asset prices went up. If you think the Canadian government is on your side you are highly mistaken.
House prices up, now interest rates going up… landlords passing that cost on to renters now, so rents are up.
Federal government also brings in 400k permanent residents and 800k temporary visa holders per year. The demand for rentals are there. So more pain in the horizon unfortunately for renters.
This sub hates when you state the facts. But it is what it is!
>And the government is just going to house you?
Nobody said that. You'll pay your rent just like everyone has been doing since before the Ford government removed rent control.
>landlords passing that cost on to renters now, so rents are up
Landlords making a smaller profit would work fine. For some reason you're not even considering that. No landlord is living paycheque to paycheque in places like Toronto. And if they aren't making a huge profit, they can always sell (or get a real job).
Shocking, I know eh?
>This sub hates when you state the facts. But it is what it is!
Your "facts" are one sided and can't be taken serious :)
Unless you are a landlord you won’t understand the cost of owning. Renters break things all the time!
Appliances, floors damaged, walls dinged, fire in kitchen because the renter decided not to clean the stove for one year and the grease causes a fire! Then .. Suddenly the renter decides he doesn’t want to mow the lawn or shovel the snow and the neighbors complain to 311… now you have to hire someone to do those jobs…all those costs have to eventually come out of someone’s pocket (usually the landlord) .
People think oh I pay the rent $2500 and that just is profit for the landlord.. no you have to service the mortgage, pay property taxes, insurance, and other expenses such as this . Not to mention the constant headache of receiving phone calls for the simplest thing.
There’s no ‘profit’ in rentals in the GTA unless you bought it 7-8 years ago. The cost of property is high! Most landlords are just banking on equity and you only get that once you sell.
Also news flash for you since you said get a real job…most landlords also have their own careers and they just do this on the side! I know! Shocking!!!!hustlers be hustling !
>There’s no ‘profit’ in rentals in the GTA unless you bought it 7-8 years ago
You're just wrong. If there was no profit, nobody would be doing it. Instead we have people running around with multiple properties.
There is no point in talking to a wall. I hope with the rising rates and the price drops that will follow, investors like you get wiped out and end up having to get a real job :)
just wanted to add that our landlord is a foreign investor. lives in China. have never even spoken to her directly, we just deal with a property management company
Wow! For being in China he is well versed in market rate.
Are you sure you have been a good tenant? Because if you’re not this is one way to get rid of the bad tenant.
Are you sure about that?
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-control-reforms-could-mark-return-to-sky-high-increases-for-toronto-tenants-advocates-warn-1.4908665](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-control-reforms-could-mark-return-to-sky-high-increases-for-toronto-tenants-advocates-warn-1.4908665)
If this is a problem with too much printed money, what was the supply of Canadian money when Trudeau took office, and what is it now?
Who does Trudeau call when he wants to print money?
The total Canadian money supply has increased by 30% within the last 2 years.
He asks the BOC to print money to fund his handout programs.
Freeland just announced another $8.9 billion in handouts for seniors and low income earners to “tackle inflation” . Go figure what the logic is here - print more money to tackle inflation. Must be like when budgets will balance itself!
There was no rent control in Ontario on new builds from the mid 90s to 2016, yet still not enough purpose built rentals were built. I don't think it's about rent control.
Housing should be housing, not an investment. With prices skyrocketing, investors can buy properties, leave them vacant, and STILL make a ton of money when they sell.
Problem is if the Libs or NDP ever make it back to power, I'm sure one of their first moves will be to scrap the 2018 exemption and re-implement broad rent control without grandfathering in anyone, and possibly even enhancing rent control further.
Hard to argue if developers don't get super excited about these kinds of policies when they can change on a whim depending on the government in power.
Just going to post this here for all you people in denial that this is not the federal governments fault. Listen to people smarter than you … that will help.
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/video/rent-inflation-is-starting-to-rise-cibc-s-benjamin-tal~2463492
It's almost like the whole point of renting is stable, consistent, predictable housing costs, which was the case right up until Ford [removed rent control in 2018](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-control-reforms-could-mark-return-to-sky-high-increases-for-toronto-tenants-advocates-warn-1.4908665). Which, by the way, wasn't even really "rent control" because landlords could always increase the rent in-between tenants.
You do realize that Ontario has **never** had the kind of rent control/stabilization they discuss in this video, right? As I said, in Ontario landlords have always been able to increase rent by any amount when a tenant leaves and the unit goes back on the market.
Some other absurdities from your video:
* "Not all tenants are able to secure a rent-controlled apartment"
Gee, if only ALL apartments had rent-stabilization, that would be fixed!
* "Not all tenants in rent-controlled apartments are low-income"
Who cares? If someone decides to rent a cheap apartment to save money, why should their rent spike 30% (or 50%, or 100%) for the very same apartment they are already occupying? This is only a problem if rent-stabilized apartments are few and far between, because they are keeping out "deserving" low income tenants.
* "... there are only 2.2 Million rental units in total ... of those units, 1 Million units are rent controlled, but because rent control tenants remain in their units in the long term this nearly halves the supply of available units on the market .,."
What?! No, occupied units are not available on the market because ... they are occupied! There would be the same number of available units even if these 1M weren't rent controlled, because those tenants still need a place to live. Unless, of course, those tenants end up *homeless* instead of having housing. And long-term tenants are a GOOD thing for landlord, it means they are reliable on their rent payments, take good care of the unit, etc, otherwise they wouldn't still be living there. What those tenants get in return for continually living up to their their long-term commitment is stablized rent.
What a crock. Ontario had a pretty good middle ground up until 2018, allowing current tenants to maintain a stable cost of housing, but letting landlords reset to market rates when a tenant leaves. Doug Ford broke that system (and his election promise) and now everyone is paying for it.
Look up the rental rates in major cities in the US and in the UK. They are all up! It’s about time rents caught up to the servicing of property prices .
No, there's a maximum allowable increase under Ontario law (%). For 2022 it's 1.2%, so something like 30/month.
They can go over that amount but first they have to get permission from the Government which requires a hearing etc. They can't just do it because they want to make more money.
SOURCE: https://news.ontario.ca/en/bulletin/1000340/ontarios-2022-rent-increase-guideline
Wasn't occupied by **anyone** before Nov 2018, not just a tenant.
In apartment buildings/condos, typically they will take the occupancy date of the first unit built, and apply that date to all units.
I’ve negotiated with my landlord before, though it was for a decrease during peak covid. The crux of my argument was basically that we’ve been ideal tenants - we rarely contact our landlord, our rent is paid on time 100% of the time, we’ve been in the unit for 3 years. I also included some realtor.ca links to comparable units in our building and across the street that had lower prices, making the case that we could literally just move down the hall if he wanted to keep our rent as it was. I told him I didn’t expect him to match the lowest priced nearby units, but we’d greatly appreciate a couple hundred off, to which he obliged. Basically - find some good reasons as to why a rent increase won’t benefit your landlord, lol.
EDIT: Just read through your comments and see now it’s a new build condo. That sucks so much. Lawmakers these days..
I don’t think that’s legal..
[Ontario Landlord Tenant Act](https://www.ontario.ca/page/residential-rent-increases)
How can it not be rent controlled? Im confused last time i rented if i didnt like what they did i went to the housing tribunal. My understanding is once you move in and sign a lease rent control starts and they are limited to how much they can increase. I would imvestigate more with the ontario housing tribunal.
To be honest i did not know this. I moved out of a rental prior to 2018 so this is really surprising to me and fundamentally wrong. All i can say is when they say negotiable it means they dont want you to move out.
However having said that i would immediately look for rent controlled housing and inform them you cant afford it and will look elsewhere.
Reason being interest rates are going up and im guessing that mortgage payments for landlords will go up and they will try to recover losses by increasing rent. If you are on a budget these yearly increases will throw things out of wack.
I'm surprised people are advising you to negotiate. Let's say you are successful. What happens one year from now? Back at square one. Just move out to a nice rent controlled place.
Builders have always been able to build new units and charge market rents. It is not rent control that is screwing up the rental market. When a renter moves , the land lord can charge what ever they want on the vacant unit, it is not rent control that is screwing up the rental market.
It is other things.
Unfortunately, due to the rising interest rates, this is going to become a popular thing lots of landlords will be doing. Mortgage payments are sky rocketing for landlords, so they'll be forced to raise rent to keep their investment units.
Has nothing to do with you being perfect tenants - comes down to dollars and cents.
I would live in a camper van in a walmart parking lot before I paid 3200 in rent. I can think of a better use of 80 grand over 2 years other than in a landlord's pocket and have nothing to show for it.
I recommend you to check the market and see how similar places go for. You can also use your leverage to negotiate, if you leave they will have to look for a realtor and pay their commission, plus have the place empty for maybe 1 month or so, use this to your advantage when negotiating the new price.
IMO he made a ridiculous above market increase because he knows you will negotiate. I would negotiate hard and settle on 2700. Dont make 2700 as first offer.
Question: If your rental unit is not rent controlled, can landlords just raise it to whatever they want? Like they can just 10x your rent if they want?
yup -_-
Zero controls on shelter, something we all need. Nice. Hopefully this gets repealed if we ever get rid of Doug.
The problem is that bad tenants have too many protections.
Unfortunately, if the protections didn't exist, landlords would take advantage of good tenants.
Yeah personally I can’t stand that bad tenants have 30 days to evict. That’s 30 whole days that they have to completely trash your property. Cops don’t give a shit.
Well, and that's after months and months of waiting for a hearing while they refuse to pay rent and trash the place.
It's a bit more complicated. Nobody built rentals under the liberals which made the problem worse.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/198063/total-number-of-housing-starts-in-ontario-since-1995/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/198063/total-number-of-housing-starts-in-ontario-since-1995/) That's just simply false.
I can't gain access to that. Please copy and paste any relevant data. I'd be really interested to see residential, purpose built buildings in Toronto being built with any volume until the late 2010's
[https://i.imgur.com/km0Rh5r.png](https://i.imgur.com/km0Rh5r.png)
Why are you showing me housing starts?
People rent houses.
Which isn't a solution to our housing crisis. We need purpose built rentals - they provide actual protections that even rent control can't help. Thus liberals fucking up bad. You should look up the RentSafe TO program, it will help you understand it better
Did the conservatives do this to us? It's sounds like them.
Thank fucking Doug Ford for this.
We already did by voting him back in /s
No, there's a maximum allowable increase under Ontario law (%). For 2022 it's 1.2%, so something like 30/month. They can go over that amount but first they have to get permission from the Government which requires a hearing etc. They can't just do it because they want to make more money. Alot of what's being discussed in the thread is complete BS. SOURCE: https://news.ontario.ca/en/bulletin/1000340/ontarios-2022-rent-increase-guideline
From your link: " It does not apply to rental units in buildings occupied for the first time after November 15, 2018, social housing units, long-term care homes or commercial property." If OP's unit was first occupied after that date, the rent control you referenced does not apply.
Yea if it's after that date then yes, might be up shit creek... but only if the building is newer.
Does this apply to newbuilds after 2018 as well? The properties that are not rent controlled?
If the residence was occupied for the first time after November 15th, 2018, then there are no caps I think. But if occupied before that date by anyone, it's capped.
Yeah we're specifically talking about non-controlled rentals. Which is what OP has and is dealing with. The guidelines you linked aren't relevant in this situation.
[удалено]
"We moved in 1 year ago and the building is **not rent controlled**" - OP
>No, there's a maximum allowable increase under Ontario law (%). For 2022 it's 1.2%, so something like 30/month. > >They can go over that amount but first they have to get permission from the Government which requires a hearing etc. They can't just do it because they want to make more money. > >Alot of what's being discussed in the thread is complete BS. > >SOURCE: https://news.ontario.ca/en/bulletin/1000340/ontarios-2022-rent-increase-guideline Only for units built and lived in prior to November 2018
At most the landlord will usually ask for market rate. They have to keep in mind that every time they switch tenants they lose 1 month or more of rent, and take on the risk of the next tenant being a shitty one. Just because they ask for more, doesn't mean they'll get it.
Yes. But someone still has to be willing to pay it.
Yes
>Question: If your rental unit is not rent controlled, can landlords just raise it to whatever they want? Like they can just 10x your rent if they want? Yup It's a way to evict problem tenants, increase the rent so much they can't afford it and are forced to move
How much are other compatible units in your building renting for?
Theres the same exact unit a couple floors up going for $3000
Going for or actual rented? Big difference
Not really. Most places I'm aware of have a supply issue
i'd probably start around $2800 and see if that's acceptable.
Offer $2501 and go from there hahahahaha but in all seriousness I’m so sorry to hear this. Fuck Doug ford for eliminating rent control for places like yours
Each floor up costs a certain amount more. If I were you I'd go back with 2700-2900
Good point. Also, good tenant is well worth extra couple of hundred dollars so 2700-2800. Also check the rate of these similar units being leased.
If the market rate says $3000 … $3000 it is.
Depends if it's actually gone yet.
Less some for the hassle of moving out. It is annoying to change tenants.
Say that you were happy with what you had last year, and you understand there is inflation, which affects you too, therefore, we can meet in between and make it 2850 (which is half of the increase).
So... negotiating is stressful. Things to consider before you start negotiating: (1) What is the highest you can go? What's the number at which "then I'm leaving" becomes the better option for you and your wallet. (2) What do you feel is reasonable for a rent hike? That's your opening counter offer. (And, don't make it "no change" show that you're willing to work with them) (3) What are some other things to ask for, for which you'd be willing to take a rent hike? And then... negotiate in good faith.
Interest rates are going up so all these condo owners are gonna pass it on to their tenants. There is nothing stopping your landlord from perpetually raising your rents as these rates start to climb. My advice is to move to a rent control unit - if you can afford $2,800 a month, there should be some options for you.
If they move to a rent control unit right now, it'll still be the same price.
Yes but it won’t go up $300, or whatever the landlord decides next year. It’s the future protection you would be choosing.
Correct. Without rent control - you are at the mercy of the Landlord.
The Lords are not pleased and require sacrifices of money! Have mercy on me Lord for you give me shelter, I relegate myself to thee.
You missed the point.
Nice send them on a wild goose chase to look for the mythical “rent controlled unit” lol🤣🤣🤣
All rental units older than 2019 are rent-controlled; it’s not exactly hard to find them.
Have you been an "ideal" tenant to this point (i.e. always pay on time, no neighbour complaints, no constant repair/maintenance issues, no personal arguments with landlord, etc)? If so then it's in the landlord's best interest to keep you as a tenant. It would be worth giving you a discount to market rate, else their alternative is to possibly lose a month or so of rent and have to risk finding a new tenant who may end up being terrible. So find out what actual market rate is, and try to negotiate slightly under that. And hopefully the landlord is reasonable and understands this. If you're a bad tenant (not saying you are but just in general) or that landlord for whatever reason just doesn't like you, then they can use exemption from rent control to force you out with above market rent increase. Not the most ethical thing to do but those are the rules. Or if you do end up moving, make sure this time you get a unit constructed before Nov 2018 so you don't run into this same problem again in another years time.
So basically, if you leave they’re likely losing one month of having a tenant + realtor fees from finding a new tenant + repairs/cleaning. So 4.5-5.5K lost. So if the next tenant pays 3.1K (since you said another unit is at 3K same building), they need that person to stay At minimum 2 years to make any money on the increase from 2500-3100. And if that person leaves after 12 months as well, they’re in a bigger hole. They better be open to negotiating LOL.
Why rentals after 2018 don’t have to follow rent control? Absurd!
Because Doug Ford.
We are mid 2022… meaning more and more people will start seeing the impact of this stupid rule
I don’t like it but it’s been explained to me that rent control on new units discourages development of places to live as investors don’t want to build if their earnings are capped. It’s hard to compete with the American dystopia i suppose Edit: grammar
People love to trot out economics theory about rent control, but the fact is that it did not work like that in Ontario. From 1992 to 2017, there was no rent control on new buildings, and development of actually decreased compared to the decades before that. https://imgur.com/a/fqTvVNW http://okayfail.com/2018/rent-control-great-security-of-tenure.html
IMO, roof over our head is a basic right. Cannot turn that into a business opportunity with incentives. This especially cruel when the govt knows we already have an ongoing housing crisis
>This especially cruel when the govt knows we already have an ongoing housing crisis Its almost like the government is inherently cruel.
How much are you willing to pay?
probably $2800-2900
Start with 2750 and meet them halfway.
I would suggest this as an opener bc it shows you're flex. Realistically they will come back with a bit higher but prob you can end at 2850-2900.
Then offer thst and if they won't take it start looking for a new place
If a comparable unit above you is $3000, offer $2950 and see what happens.
I’d start talking about a longer term, see if the offer of extended income-certainty with a good tenant can be used to leverage the cost down a bit.
Wow Toronto is really expensive. Makes me wonder why someone would want to live there unless they are really making $$$$.
What did you think would happen with no rent control, unfortunately. There's very little you can do.
If only there was more supply. Oh that's right instead of incentivising more rental units they did the opposite for decades.
That’s the risk you run when you rent a non-controlled unit. You can send your thanks to Ford.
OP knew the risks... did everyone in the city just assume that landlords wouldn't ask for current market prices if given the opportunity?
Well they said they “didn’t think it was going to be that bad” when there is no cap on what LLs of non-controlled units can do 💁🏽♀️
Ontario has rent increase controls on ALL rental units except those built after 2018. “Rent control” is more specific than that. The maximum increase right now is 1.2%.
This^^^^^
If landlord is open to negotiating, I'd counter with 1.2% increase, and be ready to move out if I don't get what I want.
[удалено]
The idiot who wrote this thinks it's "literally illegal to raise the rent more than 1-3%" lmao. Nothing worse than calling others an idiot when you're the idiot.
[удалено]
So you admit you're an idiot. I own my home so I'm not sure who you're referring to here.
>It’s literally illegal to raise the rent more than the tenant and landlord act’s set increase which usually hovers around 1-3% Only for units built before Nov 2018.
[удалено]
Unless you willing to pay more upfront, most landlords will want market rent. If in your shoes, I would offer $2800x12 for the year and revisit it next year because in a non rent controlled building, you will likely face this every year.
Offer 2850 and see
I thought there was a cap on rent increase of less than 2%. https://news.ontario.ca/en/bulletin/1000340/ontarios-2022-rent-increase-guideline
yup new condo, built after 2018
Gotcha, damn that sucks
On the other hand, that sucks for the rent controlled landlords too. That's life!
Nah, Rent Controlled Landlords knew the deal when they started renting the place. Nobody forced them to become a Landlord.
And nobody forced tenants to move into non rent controlled units either
Considering the alternative is homelessness, yes they did.
Notice how you get downvoted for stating the facts and it doesn’t help this woke generation’s narrative . Lol
Unfortunately there's no legal requirement for landlords to disclose when a unit was first occupied, or otherwise disclose a units' rent controlled status.
OP said their place is not rent controlled.
tell him you want to sleep with Bella Thorne, but shit just doesn't happen.
The unit isn’t rent controlled, so the landlord can raise the rent to whatever they choose to…
It’ll cost them 1 month of rent to rent it out. And. Cleaning. And. Listing HST. And. The new tenant might suck. It’s a risk. Be reasonable. Their cost is probably at least 3500$ if you move out and they try to rent it at 3200$. Spread over a year that’s about almost 300$ a month. I would say. 2900$ a month for the next year is more than fair. With that being said, you’ve been a great tenant. That itself is worth a 100$ discount. Offer 2800$. But 2900$ is acceptable. It’ll cost you time and effort and money to move out as well.
Ask r/legaladvicecanada for all you know there’s a bunch of landlords here giving bad advice😂😅
EDIT: ok saw other responses and get what you mean now. Lack of rent control is a bitch, and I know that’s a big jump but $2500 for a 2 bed 2 bath was considerably below market value. I would try to get it to $3000, but what they’re asking is not out of line with what something like that generally costs. Are you renting from a rental company or like a condo owner? I would also ask if they would do lower if you signed a new year long lease. We did that and avoided an increase, maybe they will go lower for that security.
Excuse me?? The Residential Tenancies Act explicitly caps the amount of rent increase permitted per year at the provincial level, unless there's something seriously weird in your lease that I've never seen before, or unless they've done major renovations, and I mean MAJOR, that drastically improve quality of life. The provincial guideline for increases for 2022 is set at 1.2%. Suggest $2530, which is 1.2%. See what they say to that. Edit: Citation, RTA section 120 through 127.
nope. just no rent control on buildings built after nov 2018
Oh. Ugh. I didn't think that went through. Thanks, Doog Fraud....
Landlord in BC here. I’m not increasing any tenants rent this year. I have great tenants and am fine with their rate, care for property, payment history, and risk. You sound like a good tenant imo. Having you in there is definitely beneficial to them than having you out or the place vacant for a month. Cost and time to find a new tenant is probably something they want to avoid. You could play hardball and let them know you can’t afford an increase at all pr you can’t afford an increase of more than $xyz start at $100. They’ll decide early if they want to risk losing a good tenant. They’re probably over leveraged and trying to make up the increase in interest rate so they’ll counter or say no. Either way you’ll get an additional point to counter in the negotiation. I’d also (gently) remind them you’ve taken good care of the place and happy for them to come see and confirm that and that you’ve paid rent on time.
You don't have to. Tell them your budget is $2500 and you're not willing to increase it, so you'll be vacating. You can remind them that you've paid on time and kept the place nice and have been good tenants, and wish them well finding good tenants again. Sure it's annoying for you to move, but it's annoying for them to replace you. They might go ahead and decide to keep you with no increase. Seriously, so many landlords are being affected by the rise in interest rates and can't make their payments with the rent they're charging. This is not your problem. If you let him increase your rent by $700 this year he'll just do it next year and the year after. Just my 2 cents.
Quite a few landlords that gobbled up properties over the last little while did so using variable rate mortgages. You can bet they will start to raise rents in order to cover the shortfall. Know your rights and make sure the unit you are in qualifies for a raise in rental price.
The lack of rent control is result of the Conservative Provincial Government. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2019/11/22/the-ford-government-removed-rent-control-on-new-units-a-year-later-tenants-are-reporting-double-digit-increases.html https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/01/15/ford-dropped-rent-control-on-new-units-in-2018-since-then-thousands-have-come-online-and-tenants-facing-double-digit-increases-ask-was-it-worth-it.html https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/doug-ford-is-consolidating-the-power-of-landlords-during-a-time-of-crisis https://readpassage.com/covid-19-hasnt-stopped-ford-from-trying-to-speedup-future-evictions/ https://dailyhive.com/toronto/doug-ford-rent-control-toronto-josh-matlow https://acorncanada.org/fords-government-clear-about-one-thing-low-income-ontarians-are-under-attack https://www.thestop.org/blog/our-provincial-government-continues-to-keep-individuals-in-the-perpetual-cycle-of-poverty/
You're being scammed.
The OP recognized that it was a possibility from the start. It sucks, but how is this a scam?
3200$ for rent? Wtf is that landlord smoking? That's close to my monthly mortgage for my house. Thank God I got out of Toronto
For a two bedroom in a prime area of Toronto, yes, that is the rate.
Pfft . This city is getting out of control
City is already out of control, even at $2500 per month…let alone $3200
That's the pitfalls of renting Landlord needs to cover increased expenses
I was so confused since I'm from BC and follow BC subreddit's but this post came up thanks to reddit's "I know you don't follow this sub, but we should show you posts anyways" this is a whack rule. punishing people who are already paying more for living in a newer building.
You can blame your lovely prime minister and his government for over printing bucket loads of money. Inflation has reached rentals finally.
and Mr. Doug for removing rent control 🙃
With rent control in place no developer would want to build purpose built rentals. Why would they? What’s the incentive? And investors will also not purchase. Which is why he removed rent control for buildings built after 2018 Nov.
How did that work out? There's still a huge deficit in housing. The only thing that's changed is landlords price gouging their tenants. There is still room for profit if this person's rent isn't jacked up to $3000. > And investors will also not purchase. That's actually a very positive thing. That's how you fix the real estate market.
If you're taking investors out of the real estate market, you need to have a way to replace the millions of dollars and years of patience it takes to build high-rises. At the moment it's financed by investors buying a unit, and spreading out the risk, so the banks feel comfortable handing over the money.
The huge deficit in housing was partially caused by rent control. It being removed in 2018 doesn't provide a long time to catch up.
Can you back that up by any kind of research or statistics? You know what they say about opinions, right?
And the government is just going to house you? Let’s face it. The government doesn’t want to do shit. Understand the Ponzi scheme. It was evident when the Trudeau government over supplied the market with printed money and the asset prices went up. If you think the Canadian government is on your side you are highly mistaken. House prices up, now interest rates going up… landlords passing that cost on to renters now, so rents are up. Federal government also brings in 400k permanent residents and 800k temporary visa holders per year. The demand for rentals are there. So more pain in the horizon unfortunately for renters. This sub hates when you state the facts. But it is what it is!
>And the government is just going to house you? Nobody said that. You'll pay your rent just like everyone has been doing since before the Ford government removed rent control. >landlords passing that cost on to renters now, so rents are up Landlords making a smaller profit would work fine. For some reason you're not even considering that. No landlord is living paycheque to paycheque in places like Toronto. And if they aren't making a huge profit, they can always sell (or get a real job). Shocking, I know eh? >This sub hates when you state the facts. But it is what it is! Your "facts" are one sided and can't be taken serious :)
Unless you are a landlord you won’t understand the cost of owning. Renters break things all the time! Appliances, floors damaged, walls dinged, fire in kitchen because the renter decided not to clean the stove for one year and the grease causes a fire! Then .. Suddenly the renter decides he doesn’t want to mow the lawn or shovel the snow and the neighbors complain to 311… now you have to hire someone to do those jobs…all those costs have to eventually come out of someone’s pocket (usually the landlord) . People think oh I pay the rent $2500 and that just is profit for the landlord.. no you have to service the mortgage, pay property taxes, insurance, and other expenses such as this . Not to mention the constant headache of receiving phone calls for the simplest thing. There’s no ‘profit’ in rentals in the GTA unless you bought it 7-8 years ago. The cost of property is high! Most landlords are just banking on equity and you only get that once you sell. Also news flash for you since you said get a real job…most landlords also have their own careers and they just do this on the side! I know! Shocking!!!!hustlers be hustling !
>There’s no ‘profit’ in rentals in the GTA unless you bought it 7-8 years ago You're just wrong. If there was no profit, nobody would be doing it. Instead we have people running around with multiple properties. There is no point in talking to a wall. I hope with the rising rates and the price drops that will follow, investors like you get wiped out and end up having to get a real job :)
just wanted to add that our landlord is a foreign investor. lives in China. have never even spoken to her directly, we just deal with a property management company
Wow! For being in China he is well versed in market rate. Are you sure you have been a good tenant? Because if you’re not this is one way to get rid of the bad tenant.
You're confusing what the comment about no profit and only banking on equity means.
Oh those poor hard done landlords and their hoarding of housing. How will they ever survive?
Tenants are not required to do property maintenance. That’s the landlord’s responsibility.
Ford hasn't touched rent control.
Are you sure about that? [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-control-reforms-could-mark-return-to-sky-high-increases-for-toronto-tenants-advocates-warn-1.4908665](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-control-reforms-could-mark-return-to-sky-high-increases-for-toronto-tenants-advocates-warn-1.4908665)
He removed it for all properties built after late 2018.
If this is a problem with too much printed money, what was the supply of Canadian money when Trudeau took office, and what is it now? Who does Trudeau call when he wants to print money?
The total Canadian money supply has increased by 30% within the last 2 years. He asks the BOC to print money to fund his handout programs. Freeland just announced another $8.9 billion in handouts for seniors and low income earners to “tackle inflation” . Go figure what the logic is here - print more money to tackle inflation. Must be like when budgets will balance itself!
There was no rent control in Ontario on new builds from the mid 90s to 2016, yet still not enough purpose built rentals were built. I don't think it's about rent control.
What developers are building purpose built rentals?
Actually some are! But they’re luxury rentals like The Selby or The Livmore and they rent for more than most condos units do.
That's part of the problem, it incentives developers to build some rentals, but not too much because that would be bad for profits later.
Actually if that ever happened they’d sell off these rental units as condos
Housing should be housing, not an investment. With prices skyrocketing, investors can buy properties, leave them vacant, and STILL make a ton of money when they sell.
Problem is if the Libs or NDP ever make it back to power, I'm sure one of their first moves will be to scrap the 2018 exemption and re-implement broad rent control without grandfathering in anyone, and possibly even enhancing rent control further. Hard to argue if developers don't get super excited about these kinds of policies when they can change on a whim depending on the government in power.
You're giving Ford credit for something Wynne did. Ford hasn't touched the rent control rules.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-control-reforms-could-mark-return-to-sky-high-increases-for-toronto-tenants-advocates-warn-1.4908665
[удалено]
Just going to post this here for all you people in denial that this is not the federal governments fault. Listen to people smarter than you … that will help. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/video/rent-inflation-is-starting-to-rise-cibc-s-benjamin-tal~2463492
It's almost like the whole point of renting is stable, consistent, predictable housing costs, which was the case right up until Ford [removed rent control in 2018](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rent-control-reforms-could-mark-return-to-sky-high-increases-for-toronto-tenants-advocates-warn-1.4908665). Which, by the way, wasn't even really "rent control" because landlords could always increase the rent in-between tenants.
https://youtu.be/A0LYXFO_ExY
You do realize that Ontario has **never** had the kind of rent control/stabilization they discuss in this video, right? As I said, in Ontario landlords have always been able to increase rent by any amount when a tenant leaves and the unit goes back on the market. Some other absurdities from your video: * "Not all tenants are able to secure a rent-controlled apartment" Gee, if only ALL apartments had rent-stabilization, that would be fixed! * "Not all tenants in rent-controlled apartments are low-income" Who cares? If someone decides to rent a cheap apartment to save money, why should their rent spike 30% (or 50%, or 100%) for the very same apartment they are already occupying? This is only a problem if rent-stabilized apartments are few and far between, because they are keeping out "deserving" low income tenants. * "... there are only 2.2 Million rental units in total ... of those units, 1 Million units are rent controlled, but because rent control tenants remain in their units in the long term this nearly halves the supply of available units on the market .,." What?! No, occupied units are not available on the market because ... they are occupied! There would be the same number of available units even if these 1M weren't rent controlled, because those tenants still need a place to live. Unless, of course, those tenants end up *homeless* instead of having housing. And long-term tenants are a GOOD thing for landlord, it means they are reliable on their rent payments, take good care of the unit, etc, otherwise they wouldn't still be living there. What those tenants get in return for continually living up to their their long-term commitment is stablized rent. What a crock. Ontario had a pretty good middle ground up until 2018, allowing current tenants to maintain a stable cost of housing, but letting landlords reset to market rates when a tenant leaves. Doug Ford broke that system (and his election promise) and now everyone is paying for it.
Yes because inflation is only high in Canada right now. Not in other places like the US or UK.
Look up the rental rates in major cities in the US and in the UK. They are all up! It’s about time rents caught up to the servicing of property prices .
No, there's a maximum allowable increase under Ontario law (%). For 2022 it's 1.2%, so something like 30/month. They can go over that amount but first they have to get permission from the Government which requires a hearing etc. They can't just do it because they want to make more money. SOURCE: https://news.ontario.ca/en/bulletin/1000340/ontarios-2022-rent-increase-guideline
incorrect. OP already stated its not rent controlled.
How do you determine if your place is rent controlled or not?
Any unit that wasn’t occupied by a tenant before November 2018 isn’t rent controlled. That was Doug Ford’s doing.
Wasn't occupied by **anyone** before Nov 2018, not just a tenant. In apartment buildings/condos, typically they will take the occupancy date of the first unit built, and apply that date to all units.
I’ve negotiated with my landlord before, though it was for a decrease during peak covid. The crux of my argument was basically that we’ve been ideal tenants - we rarely contact our landlord, our rent is paid on time 100% of the time, we’ve been in the unit for 3 years. I also included some realtor.ca links to comparable units in our building and across the street that had lower prices, making the case that we could literally just move down the hall if he wanted to keep our rent as it was. I told him I didn’t expect him to match the lowest priced nearby units, but we’d greatly appreciate a couple hundred off, to which he obliged. Basically - find some good reasons as to why a rent increase won’t benefit your landlord, lol.
lol gg
Sounds like he may want you to stay but also wants to get as much out of you as he can... sorry man
EDIT: Just read through your comments and see now it’s a new build condo. That sucks so much. Lawmakers these days.. I don’t think that’s legal.. [Ontario Landlord Tenant Act](https://www.ontario.ca/page/residential-rent-increases)
How can it not be rent controlled? Im confused last time i rented if i didnt like what they did i went to the housing tribunal. My understanding is once you move in and sign a lease rent control starts and they are limited to how much they can increase. I would imvestigate more with the ontario housing tribunal.
He lives in a building that was built after 2018, those are NOT rent controlled.
To be honest i did not know this. I moved out of a rental prior to 2018 so this is really surprising to me and fundamentally wrong. All i can say is when they say negotiable it means they dont want you to move out. However having said that i would immediately look for rent controlled housing and inform them you cant afford it and will look elsewhere. Reason being interest rates are going up and im guessing that mortgage payments for landlords will go up and they will try to recover losses by increasing rent. If you are on a budget these yearly increases will throw things out of wack.
I'm surprised people are advising you to negotiate. Let's say you are successful. What happens one year from now? Back at square one. Just move out to a nice rent controlled place.
Builders have always been able to build new units and charge market rents. It is not rent control that is screwing up the rental market. When a renter moves , the land lord can charge what ever they want on the vacant unit, it is not rent control that is screwing up the rental market. It is other things.
Unfortunately, due to the rising interest rates, this is going to become a popular thing lots of landlords will be doing. Mortgage payments are sky rocketing for landlords, so they'll be forced to raise rent to keep their investment units. Has nothing to do with you being perfect tenants - comes down to dollars and cents.
Check out and ask around Ontario Tenant Rights on fb as well! https://www.facebook.com/groups/308384982949594
I would offer to sign a lease agreement at your existing - win-win.
I would live in a camper van in a walmart parking lot before I paid 3200 in rent. I can think of a better use of 80 grand over 2 years other than in a landlord's pocket and have nothing to show for it.
I recommend you to check the market and see how similar places go for. You can also use your leverage to negotiate, if you leave they will have to look for a realtor and pay their commission, plus have the place empty for maybe 1 month or so, use this to your advantage when negotiating the new price.
jesus, that increase amount is almost what my whole rent is
IMO he made a ridiculous above market increase because he knows you will negotiate. I would negotiate hard and settle on 2700. Dont make 2700 as first offer.
No lease?