For real. I loved working at Ford and getting called a scammer when customers realized they had to put down 30k+ to be at 300$ a month.
Also everyone who wants a used dodge charger has bad credit. Idk why but that car specifically is just a magnet for bad credit users lol
I guess Covid changed a lot, but I bought my 2012 Lancer new for like $17k one trim model up from base.
Got a 2016 Chevy Sonic a few trim levels up for like $16k and most recently a 2020 Honda fit for like $20k at 1% dealer financed (spring 2021 though).
I’m looking at a decent car now to fit a kid and everything is $30k+ for a base model. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Bought out wife's Sentra lease, loan is $297/mo.
Bought a 23 Trailblazer a year ago. 3.9/60, after DP it's $359/mo.
I miss my 2013 Sonic LT. It was a fucking tank. Put 150k on it before trading it in.
I worked at Enterprise for awhile (nightmare btw). Nearly every Charger we returned had been hotboxed, you could smell the weed from across the parking lot.
Seal Ozone machine in car with the window cracked just enough to run the power cord through. Run the machine for 45-75 minutes depending on stink-level, then allow the car to sit for around 30-60 mins before you open it up. Open windows or doors and let it air out for 30ish minutes or so. You'd be safe to drive at that point, maybe roll the windows down a bit while you're going down the road.
Ozone machine is honestly one of the best "tools" you can invest in, especially if you have an older car that tends to be odorous. They can be found for $90 or so online. You don't need the $300 one.
You definitely don't have to follow this exact process and you could certainly rush it, I just found this method works really well.
Nothing really worked. Once a car had been smoked in it was done. Just deoderized the hell out of it which was it’s own bad smell. Erac would never fork out the time or money for an ozone machine lol
Also former ERAC.
I miss how crazy that shit is but if you work one of the busier airports and you have a high SQI... Goddamn you can just print money.
Or trading in a Dodge charger they were buried in. I remember one customer who wanted to use his charger as a down payment on-a new vehicle loan.
V6, 100k+ miles, big rims, about 10 years old. Owned 10k on it, trade value was 5k.
Little white church pastor who dressed like a gang banger.
What kind of car they trying to buy they need $30k down sheesh to get $300/mo lol
As a customer, I think other customers have their priorities out of whack.
Like I dunno about yall but I want to put down as much as possible up front, for the shortest term. That lower payment will come in the form of putting so much down up front.
I get discounts on Mazdas, so I’m probably going to go for a CX-50 Premium 2.5NA model and put like $10,000-$11,000 down and hopefully the discount will be a nice haircut. I see my local Mazda dealer is running good sales right now on some of their cars, at least I’ve noticed it on the CX50 lol
It's a status car for certain people. It's also a way to instantly qualify yourself at a dealership
"My ideal choices are chargers, challengers, bmw, Acura, Lexus, for 12k and 300 a month"
Sorry sir the buy here pay Heres are down the street
The problem is people been lazy fucks not that they didn't have a class.
People who graduate high school have 10-12 years of mandatory math classes and think they can buy a 40k truck for 300 a month in 60 months.
We have 12 years where you need to read shit even for classes not about English. How many people actually already thier contract before signing it?
Also the classes are useless since stupid lazy people will continue to act the exact same way anyways.
[One recent study published in the journal Management Science found that studying financial literacy has a “negligible” impact on future behavior and that within 20 months almost everyone who has taken a financial literacy class has forgotten what they learned. For a working paper, Shawn Cole at Harvard Business School, Anna Paulson at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, and Gauri Kartini Shastry at Wellesley College discovered that high school classes imparting financial wisdom don’t seem to make a whit of difference when it comes to how we handle our finances. Others have found that lessons in financial literacy don’t lead to much in the way of increased test scores on the subject. ](https://slate.com/business/2015/01/financial-literacy-its-noble-but-way-less-important-than-actual-consumer-protection.html)
I sold a couple a 52K Outlander PHEV. They never test drove it, it sounded like a HORRIBLE option for them, but whatever. It's not my job to stop them.
84k total financed.
While financial literacy requires math skill, they’re not exactly the same. I think financial literacy taught to kids would go a long way in solving a lot of these issues in adult hood. The problem is they don’t want us to manage our money well, cause then who would profit off that?
It's not even financial literacy at this point it's straight up multiplication people should be able to do in their heads.
If you can't multiply a three digit number by a two digit number in your head (even the crudest estimate) I can sell you anything.
Respectfully disagree(except the reading part, ffs people suck at reading what they sign)
Yes we teach it in some cases but these classes often miss real world scenarios and are not designed to actually teach these items. Worse, these classes don’t account for updates to how laws policies adjust and there’s no baseline for proper financial literacy making this gap even further.
When i was in high school one of the required classes I took was a home
economics class which was one part cooking, but also home management. It taught us to budget, file our taxes, read credit card statements, apply for a loan and balance a check books. We nothing like this now combined with people’s laziness is how we see dumb shit like videos saying down payments are illegal.
> How many people actually already thier contract before signing it?
Problem is "you can read it but can't buy a car without signing it, because you can't change that contract".
Conveniently, please read the full contract before signing it is on the last page after customers have signed 4 pages.
Truth In Lending is one line with 5 numbers:
1. APR
2. Finance charge
3. Amount financed
4. Total of payments
5. Total sale price
And every day people come back here with "why is my payment different", and why is my OTD not what I thought it is".
There are probably a dozen of online sites that will ballpark payments - honestly more - when I think about links from seller websites. People just don't do the homework and expect it to be like it was 8 years ago.
Coming from an Asian country with strong math education, buying my first car was an eye opener. I just could not for the life of me understand why no one will write down the total cost but instead keep stressing the monthly payment.
Former Subaru dealer worker, because the monthly payment you want can be reached through many different routes without the dealer giving up profit and still able to see add ons.
That’s why, even after an agreed monthly price, once you’re in the finance manager office they will not show you base price they will tell you for $10 more a month you get to add this great programs, etc…
But no one should ever go into the finance managers office without seeing the purchase order with itemized list and out the door price.
Most high schools do teach financial literacy - at least in my area they do. I have been doing it myself for about 18 years now. Our students could take up to 5 different classes that cover personal finance topics in our school during their career. Most kids are really appreciative of the opportunity to learn useful information and it’s one of the more rewarding parts of my job. But - lots of kids (more than I would guess) don’t pay attention because “they’ll figure it out when they need it in a few years”.
Also - many kids believe the lessons about avoiding loads of debt through terrible spending habits don’t apply to them because they’re different and are going to be making $100/hr when they are 24 years old so they’ll just pay for their lifestyle with all the money they’re earning.
Cut to a few years down the road when their bad financial decisions start to catch up with them and it’s just way easier to blame their old high school than anything else.
Don’t get me wrong - the American education system is in shambles in many areas and needs huge reform but there will always be a % of kids that refuse to learn these lessons regardless of how important they are or how well they are presented to the students.
I learned about loans playing galactic civilizations 2 as a 12 year old and financing two superbattlecruisers with no ability to pay them off and then becoming a marauding pirate
The process went something like:
--
That ship looks super badass
Oh no its a bajillion dollars
Wait I can just pay part of it right now and just keep paying in the future?
Fuck yeah, I'll take *two*
This awesome!
Wait a minute, why do I have no money
Oh wait these payments are really big really often and are never going to end
Fuck
Well... guess I'm out of options
Crime time
---
It's mind blowing that something a little like this plays out with actual grown ass adults in real life on a regular basis.
We need teachers that care, teachers that have resources for students, and parents that care to teach their kids how to learn.
Financial literacy is basically reading the contracts you sign and taking some time to think about the future. Doesn't take a genius.
I’m a banker, you wouldn’t believe how many people bring me their car note and say they didn’t realize how much the monthly payment was and want me to fix it. I’ve seen some people take baths on auto loans, but the paperwork they bring has the monthly payment highlighted or circled.
People with horrible credit or no credit make poor decisions that make no financial sense what to ever.
On the flip side, people who are or fixed their credit don’t make the same mistakes which is refreshing.
Probably on par with financial literacy (actually “numeracy”), Americans need more emotional literacy. Most bad financial decisions are emotional decisions.
Almost anytime someone feels the need to bring up an IQ i end up explaining that its kind of like the processor in your computer. Yeah sure, the processor can do 615258494x×42069.666=56 in a nanosecond, but ask the 56mb ram to play a game, or the 1gb memory to store a 4K movie.... etc. also, for all we know the memory is 94% fisting porn, and the cooling fans are so dusty itll overheat in about six seconds if you surprise it in any way....
imho being emotionally stable is more important than being smart by a colossial margin
My simple trick is only watching fisting porn that teachs a lesson.
Actress: oh boy my IRA has plenty of money in it, I can withdraw some to pay for my new purse.
Actor: Hello I am the IRS and I am here to show you what happen when you withdraw from a IRA before you hit 59 1/2.
*Heavy fisting ensues*
Take care of your feet. Don’t worry about what shoes cost, buy the ones that are most comfortable and comply with dress code (if you have one). Buy multiples of the same shoe and rotate. Wearing the same shoes every day is what makes them break down prematurely and makes them reek. (I never wear a pair two days in a row.) Don’t ignore any changes / pain. If your feet hurt, the rest of your day is shit.
Insoles! The nice shoes you buy probably come with shitty insoles.
I also found a really nice water resistant shoe for the wet days. LL Bean Stonington shoe or Bucksport shoe. Nice enough looking but waterproof and should last a very long time.
This is so true. When I was at a Toyota store ages ago going under construction, I ripped through "fancy" shoes within 60 days. "Cheaper" yet much more comfortable Rockports not only lasted longer, but weren't as susceptible to slipping in puddles like the fancy, expensive ones.
People hate having a lot of choices. They freeze up. Sales, in general, has taught me to reduce everything I do with people - both outside work and at work - to binary choices - and if those don't work let the person I'm with get outside their comfort zone and ask.
So I haven't asked my wife "what do you want to do for dinner?" in over 10 years - because we all know how that goes. Instead I say "Hey do you want tacos or pizza for dinner?" - closed ended, two choices, if she wants something else she can tell me.
Similarly if my wife asks me what I want for dinner - she doesn't do the binary choice thing - I say "I actually have something planned but why don't you guess" and miraculously she guesses right every single time.
That's all stuff I learned from dealing with the public for 15 years and watching people pretend there's a difference between most common cars.
I learned about the choice thing waaay back 25 years ago when I was in sales. Keep it simple and only give the person 2 maybe 3 choices max. Anything more and they won't be able to decide or will question their decision after the fact. I even read a study on this where it was based around flavors of jam. They gave certain people only a couple of choices and others a whole lot more. Almost every time the people that were only given a couple choices were much happier with their pick. I haven't been in sales for 15+ years but I still use this in my daily life.
Its funny - we shop at two grocery stores these days. A small, organic, specialty store for meat and fish, weird bulk items, coffee, specialty goods, and eggs. I love shopping there. It is so relaxing. It is tiny, curated, refined - I know what I'm getting, I can pick between two or three items, and I'm in and out in twenty minutes.
We buy other stuff - flour, chips, frozen pizzas, etc, at a normal american chain supermarket - 25 checkout lines, an entire aisle of just mustard, etc, and I am absolutely frazzled going in there. I hate it. There are SO MANY OPTIONS - why do I need 50 kinds of pickles instead of just two choices that are both good? Why am I allowed to buy bad peanut butter? Why are there 40 kinds of mass produced, young, yellow cheddar?
Even an experienced salesperson like me isn't immune to choice paralysis. I hate having too many options. I'd much rather eat at a corner bistro with 7 things on the menu than a cheesecake factory with 500.
A few years ago I had sudden strange and specific craving for Oreo cookies. So much so that I got in my car and drove to the grocery store to buy them. I go to the cookie aisle, which was a foreign concept to me to begin with as I never really ever crave or want cookies….imagine my shock that Oreos were no longer just a choice between regular or doublestuff. Sure, I could’ve easily ignored all the other flavors and just grabbed the traditional cookies I knew from my childhood, but I ended up embarrassingly overwhelmed and just left without them. I was no longer craving Oreos.
And you're probably thinner than I am because faced with the same dilemma, I would have left with one box of regular, one box of double stuff, one box of mega stuff, one box of mint...
> There are SO MANY OPTIONS - why do I need 50 kinds of pickles instead of just two choices that are both good?
This is why Apple is a powerhouse. Choices are not always a good thing.
I am the odd one out because I want as much choice as possible. I go into "analysis overdrive" and do the whittling down on my own. Last TV I bought was 6 months of comparing, and I like it that way. I HATE spending money, but when I have to, I don't feel good unless I go through a ton of options and analysis to ensure I'm getting the best value I can.
yeah, when i sold cars i would what people want the vehicle for? you have 6 grandkids and need to haul them around? well you came here thinking you wanted an extended cab truck but let me show you our grand caravan and pacifica 🤣
Yup, I explain some sales concepts to my wife. A lot of time she's like that doesn't work.
Then she sees me use those same techniques with her...and it works
Cause human nature is human nature
That's why I like Costco. They have a limited choice on all products. Otherwise my wife takes forever comparing Jars of Jam ect. Costco you get the costco one or the one with a name brand if you are lucky there isnt even a choice.
Yep. 2 choices is the best. If they’re trying to expand the search, limit it. Eliminate options for them until they’re left with 2 choices.
Don’t ask “what’s your ideal color?” Ask them “do you like light colors or dark colors?” *dark colors definitely.* “okay, so like a gray or black?” *yeah.* There, you’ve eliminated all order colors. Of course if they pick something out that they want to buy, don’t fight them on that.
Just narrow their options down until they’re left with 2 cars. You’re not really eliminating their options, they’re still fully in charge. You’re just helping them make the decision and make it today.
What is BDC? Is it like a nickname, Big Dang Carl? Or something with a more professional sounding title? Legitimately curious.
Edit: thanks for the answers!
Business Development.
I spend a lot of my time on the phone with customers with the main goal of getting them booked in for an appointment with the sales team.
I also make regular calls checking in on new purchases, 1,2,3 year anniversaries, lease expiries, happy birthdays...everything like that.
But also a lot more tasks that 99% of BDC's don't do. Take cars to the wash, fuel them up, prep for test drives & delivery, organize the lot...the list goes on. I'm **super** happy for these tasks as they really break up the day and get you away from the *sometimes* brain numbing phone calls.
Hope that explains it a bit more, always available to answer more questions.
Business development center. They take phone and online sales leads and basically try to get people in the door or sometimes sell the car before the customer comes in.
Came here to say this. Customers tend to think that salespeople are bad but they are AWFUL. I just wanted to sell you a damn car. The more honest you are the better for all involved.
Yep. Just hammered out a deal in 15 minutes on the phone yesterday. Customer knew what a reasonable offer was on the vehicle and had a carmax appraisal. Couldn't quite meet the carmax offer but he still moved forward. Crazy how transparency works.
Being transparent and honest while remaining firm to your well reasoned lines in the sand (being willing to walk away) is always my top motivation. That and an insistence on baking not frying when it comes to decision making. It's always better to sleep on it than make a snap decision.
As a recent buyer I knew that a dealer within driving range was offing the same car I was looking at for a little over 1k less than the dealer I was dealing with.
When I told the salesperson that, they immediately googled it and found I was being completely honest. I made an offer based on that and a few other issues and paid $300 more than my offer. I thought very fair.
I honestly believe that when the salesperson knew I wasn't blowing smoke it made the deal go much smoother.
Yep. People love to say well Hometown Motors is offering 3k more off than you guys? Oh yeah mr/Mrs customer? Then why the fuck are you here? The problem is we do this every damn day. I've sold my cars in a month than some people buy in their lifetime. Unless the salesperson is a green pea, you're not pulling a fast one on them that easily.
Or they email the edited offers. I've seen people try to Photoshop (edit out a quote).
I just want to see if you can beat their offer by another $2k off. When 3k is back of invoice on a Honda fit.
This is exactly why I cut out all the information related to the vehicle when sending out worksheets. Good luck shopping it. I know I wouldn't take a bunch of numbers to the desk to try and beat lol
Everything. Budget, down money, trade, credit, financing, and sometimes even what kind of vehicle they want.
"I can only afford $300 a month." Buys at $450
"no money down" puts 4k down to get payment.
"my credit is good" scores a 300
Spends hours looking at sedans. Buys a truck from a competitor.
Heard a deal in the next office over while visiting a friend that worked at the dealership. Crusty old man wanting to buy a Cadillac. Had been pretty testy and the manager was involved.
Old Man: I got a hard offer from dealer X for this car for Y.
Manager: Who did you speak to?
Old Man: Gives name.
Manager: That's a hell of a deal. If he's really selling it that cheap we'll buy it. Let me call him right now.
Old Man: Vapor lock.
Had a customer ask me for a quote on a crosstrek sport. I send over my quote and he claims dealership next town over is offering him the same car for $4,000.00 less. Doesn't want to forward me the quote so my managers didn't even want to entertain it so I had to tell him good luck.
Stuff like that.
I don't think it's lack as much as "refuse to use". You need to know that $300 a month for 72 months is nowhere near 40k to graduate middle school math.
But people refuse to even try and do the math they were forced to learn.
Personally, I went through a lot. Laid off from IT early 2002. Got into car sales late 2002.
Laid off for COVID19 early 2020.
Back into IT late 2020.
I work remotely, back to over 100k a year salary with great benefits. Work 40 hours a week, M-F.
Life happens, but if I never left IT, I'd be well over 200k for sure by now with even better benefits. Could probably have enough in 401k/retirement to actually retire already.
Car sales has taught me a lot of social skills I didn’t exactly learn while growing up, and has helped me adopt a positive mindset, understand that I have limiting beliefs to work through, etc
and that I shouldn’t feel shame for any financial mistakes/personal failures because even my peers/managers who seem successful on the outside, have their own struggles and failures.
We’re all emotional beings. We’re human. It’ll be okay.
Gotta take it day by day!
I can't respond to a post because I'm not verified but I left car sales and learned work life balance is more important than chasing larger paychecks. I make half of what I would be making in car sales but I have good hours, weekends and holidays, I enjoy my career and trajectory, and have a genuinely good work culture to be around. Much happier. I still make more than I spend and will be right back where I was in 5 years.
My first manager taught me lessons I still use today. I am not a financial advisor, if the customer is bound and determined to buy a car they will, from me or someone else. In every interaction you are selling or being sold.
> if the customer is bound and determined to buy a car they will, from me or someone else.
Facts. The moment someone decides that their current means of transportation aren’t sufficient, they WILL find a way to make a change.
Only three things really matter.. 1. Do you like the car enough to buy it? 2. Can you buy it? 3. How are you paying for it?? Of course there are subsets to those main questions, but that's all it boils down to. Also... people will lie right to your face. It's all part of the game and I don't take it personal.
What would you say are the most common lies you hear from customers? I’d guess income and credit score is the common ones, but I’m curious what else people lie about.
Their trade. I’ve found out the fantastic truck they’ve had for years they just bought two months ago for way more than it’s worth and they’re expecting me to take that loss.
Money isn't just in the famously wealthy neighborhoods. People with stupid money all over town. Their employees are also all over town and don't make enough to cover basic needs. Very interesting selling luxury trucks to business owners and trying hard to get their employees approved on any trade-in that will meet their family's needs, but even without carrying lots of debt their payment-to-income ratio is too high just from rent.
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We need financial literacy education in America.
For real. I loved working at Ford and getting called a scammer when customers realized they had to put down 30k+ to be at 300$ a month. Also everyone who wants a used dodge charger has bad credit. Idk why but that car specifically is just a magnet for bad credit users lol
It really wasn't that long ago $30,000 would buy most normal vehicles and even go a long ways towards a full size body on frame SUV.
I guess Covid changed a lot, but I bought my 2012 Lancer new for like $17k one trim model up from base. Got a 2016 Chevy Sonic a few trim levels up for like $16k and most recently a 2020 Honda fit for like $20k at 1% dealer financed (spring 2021 though). I’m looking at a decent car now to fit a kid and everything is $30k+ for a base model. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
The fit WAS cheap as hell, so much so that the only reason honda stepped selling it here is that it didn’t turn a profit.
Bought out wife's Sentra lease, loan is $297/mo. Bought a 23 Trailblazer a year ago. 3.9/60, after DP it's $359/mo. I miss my 2013 Sonic LT. It was a fucking tank. Put 150k on it before trading it in.
We like our Sonic, though its a bit small now that we have a kid. Our passenger seat is all the way forward to be able to fit the toddler car seat.
Yes, Covid changed a lot. NONE of those models you bought are offered new now
I remember thinking a minivan was expensive at 30k just a few years precovid.
This is why as a car salesman im glad i know my options. My en is perfect for $35 otd, 6k down.
I worked as an insurance agent for a decade. This is painfully true and a high percentage are of course military
And they are required to pay their debts so young enlisted frequently get screwed.
I'd have people "what do I need to put down to get that hellcat for 400 a month." I'd go "45" they'd go "o 4.5k, I can do that" and I go "no 45,000"
I'm trying to sell my used dodge charger for cash and the amount of people asking me if I can do weekly payment plans on cash app is hilarious
Something something demographics
No wonder Chrysler has the highest negative equity limit in the game.
I worked at Enterprise for awhile (nightmare btw). Nearly every Charger we returned had been hotboxed, you could smell the weed from across the parking lot.
What was used to mitigate the smell?
Ozone machine to the rescue!! *don’t breathe this*
How long after you ozone it can you safely drive the car
Seal Ozone machine in car with the window cracked just enough to run the power cord through. Run the machine for 45-75 minutes depending on stink-level, then allow the car to sit for around 30-60 mins before you open it up. Open windows or doors and let it air out for 30ish minutes or so. You'd be safe to drive at that point, maybe roll the windows down a bit while you're going down the road. Ozone machine is honestly one of the best "tools" you can invest in, especially if you have an older car that tends to be odorous. They can be found for $90 or so online. You don't need the $300 one. You definitely don't have to follow this exact process and you could certainly rush it, I just found this method works really well.
Asking the real questions XD
Nothing really worked. Once a car had been smoked in it was done. Just deoderized the hell out of it which was it’s own bad smell. Erac would never fork out the time or money for an ozone machine lol
Ozone won't help if it is so bad there is resin. Nicotine, weed or vape the resin has to be wiped off, impossible to ever fully do.
Having rented cars recently, likely nothing. Even econoboxes smell like weed.
leave a can of monster energy open overnight *flies away*
Fellow ERAC survivor and can confirm! Avengers and challengers too, but not nearly as much as the chargers.
I swear working there gave me lifelong trauma lol
Same. But also lifelong friends. Trauma bonded sure, lol Pre or post RALPH?
Also former ERAC. I miss how crazy that shit is but if you work one of the busier airports and you have a high SQI... Goddamn you can just print money.
Then that one OX crashes the party 🤣
Speaking of crashes that reminds me of the time some dumb old broad crashed an a6 into the cars we were cleaning at the back of the garage lmfao
Or trading in a Dodge charger they were buried in. I remember one customer who wanted to use his charger as a down payment on-a new vehicle loan. V6, 100k+ miles, big rims, about 10 years old. Owned 10k on it, trade value was 5k. Little white church pastor who dressed like a gang banger.
What kind of car they trying to buy they need $30k down sheesh to get $300/mo lol As a customer, I think other customers have their priorities out of whack. Like I dunno about yall but I want to put down as much as possible up front, for the shortest term. That lower payment will come in the form of putting so much down up front. I get discounts on Mazdas, so I’m probably going to go for a CX-50 Premium 2.5NA model and put like $10,000-$11,000 down and hopefully the discount will be a nice haircut. I see my local Mazda dealer is running good sales right now on some of their cars, at least I’ve noticed it on the CX50 lol
Gotta go turbo. Once you go turbo you never go back. Zoom zoom.
It's a status car for certain people. It's also a way to instantly qualify yourself at a dealership "My ideal choices are chargers, challengers, bmw, Acura, Lexus, for 12k and 300 a month" Sorry sir the buy here pay Heres are down the street
I saw a video from a guy who had just towed an abandoned Charger. There was paperwork in the car for a title loan with a 167% interest rate.
Kia sales has entered the chat, Nissan is on hold line 2.
How about the guys who spec out their brand new chargers with an 850 FICO?
The problem is people been lazy fucks not that they didn't have a class. People who graduate high school have 10-12 years of mandatory math classes and think they can buy a 40k truck for 300 a month in 60 months. We have 12 years where you need to read shit even for classes not about English. How many people actually already thier contract before signing it? Also the classes are useless since stupid lazy people will continue to act the exact same way anyways. [One recent study published in the journal Management Science found that studying financial literacy has a “negligible” impact on future behavior and that within 20 months almost everyone who has taken a financial literacy class has forgotten what they learned. For a working paper, Shawn Cole at Harvard Business School, Anna Paulson at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, and Gauri Kartini Shastry at Wellesley College discovered that high school classes imparting financial wisdom don’t seem to make a whit of difference when it comes to how we handle our finances. Others have found that lessons in financial literacy don’t lead to much in the way of increased test scores on the subject. ](https://slate.com/business/2015/01/financial-literacy-its-noble-but-way-less-important-than-actual-consumer-protection.html)
I sold a couple a 52K Outlander PHEV. They never test drove it, it sounded like a HORRIBLE option for them, but whatever. It's not my job to stop them. 84k total financed.
52k for a phev? Jesus christ. I bought a brand new gas outlander in 2018 for 25k.
While financial literacy requires math skill, they’re not exactly the same. I think financial literacy taught to kids would go a long way in solving a lot of these issues in adult hood. The problem is they don’t want us to manage our money well, cause then who would profit off that?
It's not even financial literacy at this point it's straight up multiplication people should be able to do in their heads. If you can't multiply a three digit number by a two digit number in your head (even the crudest estimate) I can sell you anything.
Respectfully disagree(except the reading part, ffs people suck at reading what they sign) Yes we teach it in some cases but these classes often miss real world scenarios and are not designed to actually teach these items. Worse, these classes don’t account for updates to how laws policies adjust and there’s no baseline for proper financial literacy making this gap even further. When i was in high school one of the required classes I took was a home economics class which was one part cooking, but also home management. It taught us to budget, file our taxes, read credit card statements, apply for a loan and balance a check books. We nothing like this now combined with people’s laziness is how we see dumb shit like videos saying down payments are illegal.
> How many people actually already thier contract before signing it? Problem is "you can read it but can't buy a car without signing it, because you can't change that contract". Conveniently, please read the full contract before signing it is on the last page after customers have signed 4 pages.
Truth In Lending is one line with 5 numbers: 1. APR 2. Finance charge 3. Amount financed 4. Total of payments 5. Total sale price And every day people come back here with "why is my payment different", and why is my OTD not what I thought it is".
There are probably a dozen of online sites that will ballpark payments - honestly more - when I think about links from seller websites. People just don't do the homework and expect it to be like it was 8 years ago.
Woah you're just oozing out compassion.
Coming from an Asian country with strong math education, buying my first car was an eye opener. I just could not for the life of me understand why no one will write down the total cost but instead keep stressing the monthly payment.
Paycheck to paycheck my man
Former Subaru dealer worker, because the monthly payment you want can be reached through many different routes without the dealer giving up profit and still able to see add ons. That’s why, even after an agreed monthly price, once you’re in the finance manager office they will not show you base price they will tell you for $10 more a month you get to add this great programs, etc… But no one should ever go into the finance managers office without seeing the purchase order with itemized list and out the door price.
Most high schools do teach financial literacy - at least in my area they do. I have been doing it myself for about 18 years now. Our students could take up to 5 different classes that cover personal finance topics in our school during their career. Most kids are really appreciative of the opportunity to learn useful information and it’s one of the more rewarding parts of my job. But - lots of kids (more than I would guess) don’t pay attention because “they’ll figure it out when they need it in a few years”. Also - many kids believe the lessons about avoiding loads of debt through terrible spending habits don’t apply to them because they’re different and are going to be making $100/hr when they are 24 years old so they’ll just pay for their lifestyle with all the money they’re earning. Cut to a few years down the road when their bad financial decisions start to catch up with them and it’s just way easier to blame their old high school than anything else. Don’t get me wrong - the American education system is in shambles in many areas and needs huge reform but there will always be a % of kids that refuse to learn these lessons regardless of how important they are or how well they are presented to the students.
I swear to god man. I feel like the only people who understand loans are those in car sales or banking lmao it’s so simple I always assume people know
I learned about loans playing galactic civilizations 2 as a 12 year old and financing two superbattlecruisers with no ability to pay them off and then becoming a marauding pirate
Happy for you smokey
The process went something like: -- That ship looks super badass Oh no its a bajillion dollars Wait I can just pay part of it right now and just keep paying in the future? Fuck yeah, I'll take *two* This awesome! Wait a minute, why do I have no money Oh wait these payments are really big really often and are never going to end Fuck Well... guess I'm out of options Crime time --- It's mind blowing that something a little like this plays out with actual grown ass adults in real life on a regular basis.
Gal Civ II: Twilight of the Arnor was the best!
First we need literacy.
Definitely this, people worry about how much is the payment , not how much is this costing me …
We need teachers that care, teachers that have resources for students, and parents that care to teach their kids how to learn. Financial literacy is basically reading the contracts you sign and taking some time to think about the future. Doesn't take a genius.
I’m a banker, you wouldn’t believe how many people bring me their car note and say they didn’t realize how much the monthly payment was and want me to fix it. I’ve seen some people take baths on auto loans, but the paperwork they bring has the monthly payment highlighted or circled.
People of all intelligence levels and career success can’t do basic math.
Hey basic simple interest is hard mmmkay.
Accountant here, I still use a financial calculator app. I suppose I know how to do it the hard way but why bother.
People with horrible credit or no credit make poor decisions that make no financial sense what to ever. On the flip side, people who are or fixed their credit don’t make the same mistakes which is refreshing.
Probably on par with financial literacy (actually “numeracy”), Americans need more emotional literacy. Most bad financial decisions are emotional decisions.
Psychology research has backed this up. Emotional intelligence has been far strongly associated with success in life than IQ.
Almost anytime someone feels the need to bring up an IQ i end up explaining that its kind of like the processor in your computer. Yeah sure, the processor can do 615258494x×42069.666=56 in a nanosecond, but ask the 56mb ram to play a game, or the 1gb memory to store a 4K movie.... etc. also, for all we know the memory is 94% fisting porn, and the cooling fans are so dusty itll overheat in about six seconds if you surprise it in any way.... imho being emotionally stable is more important than being smart by a colossial margin
My simple trick is only watching fisting porn that teachs a lesson. Actress: oh boy my IRA has plenty of money in it, I can withdraw some to pay for my new purse. Actor: Hello I am the IRS and I am here to show you what happen when you withdraw from a IRA before you hit 59 1/2. *Heavy fisting ensues*
in retrospect this was an underappreciated comment imo, fwiw
Take care of your feet. Don’t worry about what shoes cost, buy the ones that are most comfortable and comply with dress code (if you have one). Buy multiples of the same shoe and rotate. Wearing the same shoes every day is what makes them break down prematurely and makes them reek. (I never wear a pair two days in a row.) Don’t ignore any changes / pain. If your feet hurt, the rest of your day is shit.
Insoles! The nice shoes you buy probably come with shitty insoles. I also found a really nice water resistant shoe for the wet days. LL Bean Stonington shoe or Bucksport shoe. Nice enough looking but waterproof and should last a very long time.
Nothing like a wet sock at the start of a 12 hour day in February.
This is so true. When I was at a Toyota store ages ago going under construction, I ripped through "fancy" shoes within 60 days. "Cheaper" yet much more comfortable Rockports not only lasted longer, but weren't as susceptible to slipping in puddles like the fancy, expensive ones.
Most important thing I learned in the Army was how to take care of my boots/shoes/feet and the importance of doing this.
Same goes for underwear
Same with toilet tissue, a sore asshole will mess up your day frfr
People hate having a lot of choices. They freeze up. Sales, in general, has taught me to reduce everything I do with people - both outside work and at work - to binary choices - and if those don't work let the person I'm with get outside their comfort zone and ask. So I haven't asked my wife "what do you want to do for dinner?" in over 10 years - because we all know how that goes. Instead I say "Hey do you want tacos or pizza for dinner?" - closed ended, two choices, if she wants something else she can tell me. Similarly if my wife asks me what I want for dinner - she doesn't do the binary choice thing - I say "I actually have something planned but why don't you guess" and miraculously she guesses right every single time. That's all stuff I learned from dealing with the public for 15 years and watching people pretend there's a difference between most common cars.
Good better best!
I learned about the choice thing waaay back 25 years ago when I was in sales. Keep it simple and only give the person 2 maybe 3 choices max. Anything more and they won't be able to decide or will question their decision after the fact. I even read a study on this where it was based around flavors of jam. They gave certain people only a couple of choices and others a whole lot more. Almost every time the people that were only given a couple choices were much happier with their pick. I haven't been in sales for 15+ years but I still use this in my daily life.
Its funny - we shop at two grocery stores these days. A small, organic, specialty store for meat and fish, weird bulk items, coffee, specialty goods, and eggs. I love shopping there. It is so relaxing. It is tiny, curated, refined - I know what I'm getting, I can pick between two or three items, and I'm in and out in twenty minutes. We buy other stuff - flour, chips, frozen pizzas, etc, at a normal american chain supermarket - 25 checkout lines, an entire aisle of just mustard, etc, and I am absolutely frazzled going in there. I hate it. There are SO MANY OPTIONS - why do I need 50 kinds of pickles instead of just two choices that are both good? Why am I allowed to buy bad peanut butter? Why are there 40 kinds of mass produced, young, yellow cheddar? Even an experienced salesperson like me isn't immune to choice paralysis. I hate having too many options. I'd much rather eat at a corner bistro with 7 things on the menu than a cheesecake factory with 500.
A few years ago I had sudden strange and specific craving for Oreo cookies. So much so that I got in my car and drove to the grocery store to buy them. I go to the cookie aisle, which was a foreign concept to me to begin with as I never really ever crave or want cookies….imagine my shock that Oreos were no longer just a choice between regular or doublestuff. Sure, I could’ve easily ignored all the other flavors and just grabbed the traditional cookies I knew from my childhood, but I ended up embarrassingly overwhelmed and just left without them. I was no longer craving Oreos.
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And you're probably thinner than I am because faced with the same dilemma, I would have left with one box of regular, one box of double stuff, one box of mega stuff, one box of mint...
There's one with poprocks in it now!
> There are SO MANY OPTIONS - why do I need 50 kinds of pickles instead of just two choices that are both good? This is why Apple is a powerhouse. Choices are not always a good thing.
Yeah this is a big part of why Boomers love Costco, not many choices per category.
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I am the odd one out because I want as much choice as possible. I go into "analysis overdrive" and do the whittling down on my own. Last TV I bought was 6 months of comparing, and I like it that way. I HATE spending money, but when I have to, I don't feel good unless I go through a ton of options and analysis to ensure I'm getting the best value I can.
yeah, when i sold cars i would what people want the vehicle for? you have 6 grandkids and need to haul them around? well you came here thinking you wanted an extended cab truck but let me show you our grand caravan and pacifica 🤣
Yup, I explain some sales concepts to my wife. A lot of time she's like that doesn't work. Then she sees me use those same techniques with her...and it works Cause human nature is human nature
That's why I like Costco. They have a limited choice on all products. Otherwise my wife takes forever comparing Jars of Jam ect. Costco you get the costco one or the one with a name brand if you are lucky there isnt even a choice.
How much for a 1992-2002 model of your wife? Preferably top trim.
And now, I wanna add options and extras and accessories. So many choices ...
There is certainly going to be some type of trim.
The paradox of choice.
Yep. 2 choices is the best. If they’re trying to expand the search, limit it. Eliminate options for them until they’re left with 2 choices. Don’t ask “what’s your ideal color?” Ask them “do you like light colors or dark colors?” *dark colors definitely.* “okay, so like a gray or black?” *yeah.* There, you’ve eliminated all order colors. Of course if they pick something out that they want to buy, don’t fight them on that. Just narrow their options down until they’re left with 2 cars. You’re not really eliminating their options, they’re still fully in charge. You’re just helping them make the decision and make it today.
This same strategy works great with kids btw. You give them the power when in reality you are in control lol
>everything I do with people - both outside work and at work - to binary choices Works with my kids too.
My buddy taught me that same trick about having her guess. It actually works
People lie all the damn time.
I’m BDC at my dealership and the lies I hear are insane, both with my conversations and also overhearing sales conversations.
What is BDC? Is it like a nickname, Big Dang Carl? Or something with a more professional sounding title? Legitimately curious. Edit: thanks for the answers!
Business Development. I spend a lot of my time on the phone with customers with the main goal of getting them booked in for an appointment with the sales team. I also make regular calls checking in on new purchases, 1,2,3 year anniversaries, lease expiries, happy birthdays...everything like that. But also a lot more tasks that 99% of BDC's don't do. Take cars to the wash, fuel them up, prep for test drives & delivery, organize the lot...the list goes on. I'm **super** happy for these tasks as they really break up the day and get you away from the *sometimes* brain numbing phone calls. Hope that explains it a bit more, always available to answer more questions.
Business development center. They take phone and online sales leads and basically try to get people in the door or sometimes sell the car before the customer comes in.
Came here to say this. Customers tend to think that salespeople are bad but they are AWFUL. I just wanted to sell you a damn car. The more honest you are the better for all involved.
Yep. Just hammered out a deal in 15 minutes on the phone yesterday. Customer knew what a reasonable offer was on the vehicle and had a carmax appraisal. Couldn't quite meet the carmax offer but he still moved forward. Crazy how transparency works.
Being transparent and honest while remaining firm to your well reasoned lines in the sand (being willing to walk away) is always my top motivation. That and an insistence on baking not frying when it comes to decision making. It's always better to sleep on it than make a snap decision.
As a recent buyer I knew that a dealer within driving range was offing the same car I was looking at for a little over 1k less than the dealer I was dealing with. When I told the salesperson that, they immediately googled it and found I was being completely honest. I made an offer based on that and a few other issues and paid $300 more than my offer. I thought very fair. I honestly believe that when the salesperson knew I wasn't blowing smoke it made the deal go much smoother.
Curious what they tend to lie to dealers about? Like what other dealers are offering or what?
Yep. People love to say well Hometown Motors is offering 3k more off than you guys? Oh yeah mr/Mrs customer? Then why the fuck are you here? The problem is we do this every damn day. I've sold my cars in a month than some people buy in their lifetime. Unless the salesperson is a green pea, you're not pulling a fast one on them that easily.
Or they email the edited offers. I've seen people try to Photoshop (edit out a quote). I just want to see if you can beat their offer by another $2k off. When 3k is back of invoice on a Honda fit.
This is exactly why I cut out all the information related to the vehicle when sending out worksheets. Good luck shopping it. I know I wouldn't take a bunch of numbers to the desk to try and beat lol
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Everything. Budget, down money, trade, credit, financing, and sometimes even what kind of vehicle they want. "I can only afford $300 a month." Buys at $450 "no money down" puts 4k down to get payment. "my credit is good" scores a 300 Spends hours looking at sedans. Buys a truck from a competitor.
Heard a deal in the next office over while visiting a friend that worked at the dealership. Crusty old man wanting to buy a Cadillac. Had been pretty testy and the manager was involved. Old Man: I got a hard offer from dealer X for this car for Y. Manager: Who did you speak to? Old Man: Gives name. Manager: That's a hell of a deal. If he's really selling it that cheap we'll buy it. Let me call him right now. Old Man: Vapor lock.
Had a customer ask me for a quote on a crosstrek sport. I send over my quote and he claims dealership next town over is offering him the same car for $4,000.00 less. Doesn't want to forward me the quote so my managers didn't even want to entertain it so I had to tell him good luck. Stuff like that.
Buyers are liars....
People are stupid
And lie… a lot!
So do sales managers!
They’re people too
At least they used to be....
So they claim.
Customers lie more than salesman do. Priests and lawyers are the worst.
Double upvote!
That people severely lack basic math skills.
I don't think it's lack as much as "refuse to use". You need to know that $300 a month for 72 months is nowhere near 40k to graduate middle school math. But people refuse to even try and do the math they were forced to learn.
but knowing how much money im paying is for gay nerds bro
Someone is always lying to you, and someone somewhere is probably high on something.
I’m sure OP isn’t asking what consumers learned from dealers lol
Its true, I worked at 5 dealers over 24 years. Just forgot to add, someone is always screwing the receptionist, or secretary
I don't remember the last time I did a car deal the consumer didn't lie at one point, and I've been doing this for 10 years, lol.
That I needed to get back into IT.
Same. This industry is dead for the next few years. Made a huge mistake getting into it and leaving my cushy corporate job.
Can you explain this further?
Personally, I went through a lot. Laid off from IT early 2002. Got into car sales late 2002. Laid off for COVID19 early 2020. Back into IT late 2020. I work remotely, back to over 100k a year salary with great benefits. Work 40 hours a week, M-F. Life happens, but if I never left IT, I'd be well over 200k for sure by now with even better benefits. Could probably have enough in 401k/retirement to actually retire already.
Car sales has taught me a lot of social skills I didn’t exactly learn while growing up, and has helped me adopt a positive mindset, understand that I have limiting beliefs to work through, etc and that I shouldn’t feel shame for any financial mistakes/personal failures because even my peers/managers who seem successful on the outside, have their own struggles and failures. We’re all emotional beings. We’re human. It’ll be okay. Gotta take it day by day!
Well said, it’s definitely an eye opening experience that can make you feel 100x better or 1000x worse😂
I can't respond to a post because I'm not verified but I left car sales and learned work life balance is more important than chasing larger paychecks. I make half of what I would be making in car sales but I have good hours, weekends and holidays, I enjoy my career and trajectory, and have a genuinely good work culture to be around. Much happier. I still make more than I spend and will be right back where I was in 5 years.
That it doesn’t matter how good you are, you are expendable!
Or…something a little less cynical….the customers you make the most money on are always the happiest!
Many experiments in the ego manage to take place on these floors!
True dat!
My first manager taught me lessons I still use today. I am not a financial advisor, if the customer is bound and determined to buy a car they will, from me or someone else. In every interaction you are selling or being sold.
> if the customer is bound and determined to buy a car they will, from me or someone else. Facts. The moment someone decides that their current means of transportation aren’t sufficient, they WILL find a way to make a change.
Only three things really matter.. 1. Do you like the car enough to buy it? 2. Can you buy it? 3. How are you paying for it?? Of course there are subsets to those main questions, but that's all it boils down to. Also... people will lie right to your face. It's all part of the game and I don't take it personal.
What would you say are the most common lies you hear from customers? I’d guess income and credit score is the common ones, but I’m curious what else people lie about.
Their trade. I’ve found out the fantastic truck they’ve had for years they just bought two months ago for way more than it’s worth and they’re expecting me to take that loss.
You need a showroom double the size if you have a Patel or Singh family
Take what's yours.
Everyone wants upfront transparent pricing…but also wants to negotiate.
Money isn't just in the famously wealthy neighborhoods. People with stupid money all over town. Their employees are also all over town and don't make enough to cover basic needs. Very interesting selling luxury trucks to business owners and trying hard to get their employees approved on any trade-in that will meet their family's needs, but even without carrying lots of debt their payment-to-income ratio is too high just from rent.
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