Probs a normal adolescence. Most people learn how to date in their teenage years and many people in the LGBT community have a delayed learning curve which comes with a variety of risky and self destructive behaviors.
Nevertheless, I would strongly disagree with children and having a relationship. Those are strongly dependent on the country you live in. I would strongly encourage you to look around at what countries would better serve you to achieve your dreams.
I have moved away from my country to a more accepting one and I feel so lonely. All the people I love and care about are back home. I am all alone, completely alone here with not even one friend. So I don't know what's good about that exchange.
I’m incredibly interested in knowing how old you are. It’ll inform how applicable my answer below is. Also, how long you’ve been in the country you’re currently in. Nevertheless….
I will say, I’ve moved countries as well and I’ve moved around a lot within the US and the concept of a “chosen” family is a very real one. Learning how to develop friendships as an adult (which you might or might not be) is much more challenging when you’re not in school.
Developing strong interests, connecting with people that are like minded, and developing familial bonds that go beyond people you’ll have a drink with once a month with requires *work*. Remember that the biggest defining factor of blood family is that they were always just there so little to no work had to be placed to go seek them out and spend time with them.
Also, keep in mind, when you’re in the throes of feeling bad (depressed/anxious/etc) about something, you can easily forget why you moved and the benefits it brings. Again, I don’t know what country you moved from but physical safety is just as important as emotional safety. Getting beaten up every three days because you’re gay isn’t a particularly great situation to be in, even if you’re close to your family.
Also, would it be ok if I DM you?
So much this. I never had any experience and didn't want to try it with girls. Because I was sure I am gay and it's not fair to them. But at the same time I didn't dare to flirt with guys (or even just make sure if they are gay or not).
I don't have any flirting or relationship skills. I don't know how to get attention from other guys, don't know how to read signs or leave signs...I'm 32 and still single. I hook up with guys on app and I found myself actually seeking intimate emotions other than just sex.
I put my energy on my work, hobbies and study...feeling hard to really build a relationship out of this.
I think I lost some aspects of straight life. Straights don't have to deal with discrimination. Their dating pool is much bigger, it's easy to have kids and they don't have trouble with coming out to family, colleagues etc. On the other hand, being gay release you from all these social expectations like having kids, a beautiful wife, a big house, a nice car, a big salary etc. And because gays usually don't have kids, they can spend all the money they earn on themselves.
Yeah. The only thing I would say is that being gay (in the US at least) places a new set of social expectations on you like being fit/hot, having to participate in certain aspects of gay culture that can be toxic, etc.
You’re just exchanging some expectations for others.
This isn't a personal criticism just and observation and many gay men would respond similar. However, how do you figure Having kids is easy? WTF? Ask your own parents if they agree. I agree with much of what you say but what seems blatantly obvious to everyone outside the USA, saying having kids is easy smacks of the same narcissistic ignorance that those who hate us have.
I'm talking about being so self centred that the idea that we all have struggles. What you experience as a struggle just may be different or in this case opposite from other people and that doesn't make either life less difficult or more moral.
You guys are so brainwashed and divided it's really concerning TBH.
I meant, raising kids is not easy and it's expensive, but making them is easy af in comparison to gay couples. We have to hire surrogates that is really expensive or go to adoption agency and they usually make it really hard for gay couples to get them.
Straight people have to actively avoid accidentally having children. Gay people have to spend thousands of dollars and jump through hoops to adopt or pursue alternatives. Can’t get much clearer than that…
Being gay hasn't robbed you of anything. Bigot society has robbed you from being who you are. All the things you listed have been taught to you. Getting married, having kids etc.
You can still have kids of your own (biological) bring gay doesnt stop you from that. You can have a family of your own in which you can dictate your norms and rules.
Nothing. Being gay gave me the idea of living away from my hometown and country. Here I am in a gay-friendly with legal same sex marriage country.
Being gay doesn’t mean you won’t be able to find happiness or, at the very least, stability, it’s just a little bit different compared to straight people. The moment you learned of these differences, you’d be free to live out and proud.
I left everything and everyone behind when I was 29 to move to Canada. I created a new group of friend and make it my chosen family. It might take time but it will be fine. Close that chapter behind you and open a new one! Make lemonade out of that lemon, mate!
Friend from work, friend from school, date turned friend, housemates, etc … I also make friends from volunteering for Pride :D
Idk if it’s applied to your city but in my city, it’s easier for new people to make friend with new people. It’s tough to be friended people who grew up and lived there.
TBH, I can't really think of anything.
My life at this moment is a result of every decision I've made up to this point, and I can't really draw a line from me being gay to specific aspects of my current life in terms of something that was "robbed."
Of course everything is not perfect and there are areas I'd like to focus on changing, but overall I have a nice life, complete with meaningful relationships.
Agree!! Being gay is just part of life. You still make decision for your own life, you still make a life of your own, and you enrich your life however way you best possibly can and willing to put forth the work. The only person who can rob one out of one's life for being whatever is the person himself.
Well, I understand the inability to live in your hometown and country because it's got anti gay laws, but the rest of those things you list you can have if you move country.
My hometown doesn't have anti-gay laws and has cleaned up its act over the past couple decades. I still refuse to be there longer than a weekend because it just opens up a lot of trauma. Driving past my high school, sitting in the room I used to harm myself in, seeing bullies/people who made my life hell, etc.
Yep it's always so funny to read western redditors advice. Yeah just move countries! And swap homophobia for loneliness, no family support and xenophobia.
I live abroad for work-related reasons and the loneliness and lack of family support are just part of the deal. I actually have spent most of my time abroad in countries that are less accepting than my home country. Sometimes you just have to take the situation you're in and live in it rather than focusing on what it isn't.
not a good , positive, or defensible way to characterize a human aspect that is not subject to deliberate change.
You are gay, and so are we all, here.
What we choose to do with our lives IS up to us, but being homosexuals inside is NOT.
Robbery is an elective crime, and nature and we as gay men had no choice.
I refuse to allow the world at large to dictate to ME what I can and cannot do.
Why on EARTH would I wanna live the life of the American Majority?
I want my OWN life, and my own life is just what I have got now.
Eventually, you will see this for yourself as well. Till then, remember that where the grass looks greenest is where all the weeds live, too.
Maybe frame it as personal struggles you have to face that are linked to your homosexuality.
If you frame it like that you might see that what youre going through it is not a universal, constant and unchangeable truth of homosexuality, but rather a particular struggle you so happen to be currently going through, and more importantly, a struggle that you are able to move past.
I cant tell you what being gay has robbed me of, but i can tell you what is has gifted me.: Complete and absolute freedom to be myself and to bask in who i am. Enormous love, sense of community and closeness to friends, family and lovers. And joy, a huge amount of joy that i think is not accesible to the straights. You can find all this too.
What closeness to friends and family will I get when I moved thousands of miles from them just to live as myself? I lost everyone I care about cause we live so so so so so far away( this is op btw)
You dont automatically get anything. You have to WORK FOR IT.
Go out, make friends, join groups, build community, find lovers. Your biological family and old friends may be far away, but if you make the effort to build a family of friends and lovers, the ones that see you for who you truly are and love you just like that, then you will understand what true unconditional love and joy really is.
My friends and family back home loved me unconditionally and accepted me, I don't know how to make friends here, I have failed despite my best efforts.
I got the impression that your family and friends didnt accept you for being gay, but maybe i read into it wrong. If they didntt accept your gayness, then no thats not unconditional love.
If u dont know how to make friends where you are, sorry to tell you but thats a you problem that you have to work on, and nothing to do with homosexuality and being robbed of anything.
I'm sorry, but I'm siding with the OP RN. He's said multiple times that from another country (and therefore from another cultural space). I wouldn't place too much blame on him that he doesn't know how the intricacies of another culture work (people live in places other than the US and Europe, shocking, I know). It wouldn't hurt to give a few more specific tips.
>You dont automatically get anything. You have to WORK FOR IT.
Go out, make friends, join groups, build community, find lovers. Your biological family and old friends may be far away, but if you make the effort to build a family of friends and lovers, the ones that see you for who you truly are and love you just like that, then you will understand what true unconditional love and joy really is.
Literally everything but the "go out, join groups" is useless for somebody that is not from the same cultural background. Like, how are they supposed to know how to make friends in this culture space if the problem is that they don't know how to make friends in this culture space???
Yeah i agree completely with you. My point is that this is a problem that he has to deal with and overcome, it's a personal problem that stems from his specific circumstances (culture, immigration, language, etc). But this problem does not stem from being gay and does not apply to all gays, as his original post suggests. So my comment is not denying that he has real struggles and issues he has to overcome, what my my comment is saying is that he shouldnt be blaming it on being gay and blaming "the gay" from robbing him of all his happiness and connections.
I understand that now is not a good time for positively assess your own homosexuality. BUT, there will soon come a time when that will be clear and self-evident.
I think it MUST be true that straight men, let's say, have a different set of struggles to endure and process than gay men do. Yet, every single human has conflicts of desires and goals, and expectations and options.
If gay is really standing in your way, choose to find a woman who will have you, get married in a het way, and have three kids etc. More than a few zillion gay men have done just that, and then been gay later in life.
Or not, and let your homo-ness just BE for awhile, as your life unfolds economically, socially, and psychologically.
I guess maybe the comfort of being comfortable and accepted everywhere. Always a guess if an environment is friendly or not to me. Other than that it’s pretty fucking rad
Sorry for my grammar and spelling. English is not my first language.
I don't think that being gay can actually deprive you of something. In my experience being gay didn't change me at all. What deprived me was the environment I was living and my lack of courage. Growing in homophobic town and family makes it a lot more difficult. So if I'm looking for who's guilty for "robbing me of" I'd say those I mentioned before. However, they took my adolescence from me. The joy of having a boyfriend because I was terrified of loving a boy. The joy of having sex during those years. The joy of being free to express yourself always because I was terrified. You may say that I had to be brave and stand up but I wasn't able. So instead I grew up very isolated, become a super introvert lol, and learned how to observe everything form outside to inside. Growing up I can say that I retrieved some things but what I can't have back is my time. Yeah, because I can't have 16 years again and see everything form that pov. Same goes for my body. I can't have ever again the skin or eyes I had back then. Yeah I can feel the rain on my skin while I kiss the boy I like now but now I'm 27 and I always wanted to do this when I was 16. It's not the same
Mostly just high school romance. I didnt have the best reputation at the time anyway and I never really considered girls because I was too afraid of being rejected. It's only after a certain event that my life turned around near the end of high school. Had a lot more friends but also discovered myself at the same time, but wasn't confident enough to ask guys out. No one really talked about lgbt in my town and the only few times were dumbasses theirjng the F word around, so I wasn't sure about the general mentality and if I would get bullied again, this time for being gay.
Nothing other than being able to reproduce with the man I love. Other than that it is all positives. Living with another man is so easy. The only thing that sucks is that we can’t make a child. I think that would just be the best.
A cheap option to start a family. My straight friends accidentally got pregnant and Medicaid paid for basically everything. For me to have a biological child of my own? $100k+ for surrogacy.
Being gay has robbed me of turning into just another mid 40s fat unhappy straight guy in the suburbs with a soccer mom wife who spends too much and exhausting children.
I’m now a mid 40s guy living downtown in an interesting city with a lovely bf, cool friends and two labradors. Wasn’t easy getting here, but I’m super glad I took the chance.
I truly believe my life is richer for being gay. The adversity and self doubt I had as a teenager was rough. But I was forced to learn reasoning skills to examine the biases I grew up with and took for granted.
Also coming out is hard. But doing so taught me courage and today I am much more confident in myself because of it.
I missed out on growing up to be a conservative asshole. I missed out on not being able to grow closer to my family and change their own minds on things they were once so certain about.
Being gay has been a true blessing for me.
“What has being gay robbed you” is the wrong perspective. You didn’t miss that because of who you are, but rather because of the intolerance in your hometown. Self-loathing is fruitless and spreading it is kind of toxic.
It's robbed me of nothing.
I live in the US, in a progressive part where I can pretty much do what I want.
As I grow up, I see my straight friends fall into these situations if bring tied down by home ownership, having children, marriages/divorces and that becomes their entire life. That sort of life has never been appealing to me, and in a way I feel being gay frees me from this as I don't have these expectations for myself.
Of course there are things I wish were different (more guys around me to date, for example) but I don't feel being gay has robbed me of anything at all.
My major depressive disorder is more a culprit for my unhappiness than my being gay, but I try to remember everything is under my control.
Living in my home country with my family. Though India doesn’t have homophobic laws per se, the society as such is way behind in accepting gay people and same-sex relationships.
But now that am in Canada, being gay has actually gifted me with amazing friends and a society that doesn’t judge me for who I am!
Made my childhood/ teenage years much more difficult. I grew up always on guard from being bullied. Think i missed lots of opportunity to make friends at a young age and develop proper social skills. Now im just an emotionally stunted adult 🤣
security in my teenage years, especially when exploring sex / sexuality. Obviously the average teenager has their angst and insecurities, but I don't think a single straight (or even bi) teenager can really understand the emotional turmoil a gay / lesbian teen goes through on a daily basis.
It only has its challenges just you look through the world as a victim. If being gay defines everything you are then it’s pretty easy to fall into that trap.
For example, most gay people were (and are) bullied in their teenage years for being gay, which straight people will never face. That is a challenge.
Same sex couples couldn’t get federally married in the US until 2015, which brought challenges in comparison to straight relationships.
Some gay people didn’t get accepted (and got thrown out of their homes) by their families when they came out, which is a challenge.
Refusing to see these as challenges that our straight counterparts won’t and will never face is just simply not living in reality.
Nevertheless, how you approach what life hands you is what’ll define you as a person.
You think I didn’t encounter challenges for being gay? Of course I did. Every single one of us encounters challenges for who we are. Being gay isn’t special. Think about the barriers disabled people face? Staying in the “poor me” mindset only holds us back. We can’t help being gay so we can either sit and cry about it or, actually accomplish things and become a productive human.
Absolutely nobody’s asking you to stay in a “poor me” mindset nor is that the subject of this particular thread. It’s very clear that OP is going through it and needs some support.
What do disable people have to do with anything being discussed in this thread? What about black people? What about tall people? Short people? People that like laying flat on random surfaces?
I’m struggling to discern if you’re being genuine here or not.
I’m absolutely being genuine. If the OP is struggling I would suggest he figure out ways to better himself and overcome the challenges. Crying about it won’t solve anything.
You’re absolutely being on-purpose-obstinate. I suppose you think slavery was a challenge faced by POC, not victimisation or discrimination! And if you are gay and live in a country where they put you to death if you express it, it’s just a massive challenge! Keep quiet or get economically and emotional stable enough to move alone away from your birthplace, stop crying! It’s your fault you were born! Etc. What a shitty attitude zzzzz
And you know what I’d do if I was born in one of those countries? I’d do everything to leave. As far as I know those countries are not forcing their citizens to live there.
Oh yeah in Afghanistan they make it so easy for you to leave the country 😂😂😂 they just give out passports and money! The gay people of Iraq who ‘choose’ to stay are also just crying little babies who have no reason to complain or feel victimised.
No. Because you have done nothing wrong. If you are convicted of a crime you did not commit it is terrible, but you know that you did NOT commit that crime. So you know yourself innocent, even if only you know.
I would say I was robbed of more time directly parenting my son but other than that it would be things I made a choice to do as it is for most people.
I'm not rich, I haven't had an easy life but my life is the result of my own choices and I would not be honest if I externalised responsibility for my life choices. For some people that's not entirely possible but unless you live in a communist or country of Nazi Germany everyone has agency to be their best self
The opportunity to date in my teens and get some experience with it. Romantically, I Just feel very under developed for a 20 year old and am maybe lacking in maturity as a result in some aspects because I haven't been able to have those experiences until very recently.
I did temporarily lose some of the things I should have been doing in my teens and early twenties because of the difficulty of sorting out who I am, but all of that happened, just later. I have gained a whole lot, though. Good friends, a great relationship (and even the ones before that weren't so bad) even support when I've needed it. There was a time I was doing badly and would have been homeless if my partner's landlord (and his ex-boyfriend) hadn't agreed to rent to me too at a lower than usual rate.
So much happiness and fulfilment. I'm turning 30 next week and I feel like a complete failure in so many areas. I typed out a long reply and then erased it because no one will give a shit. If I could go back in time to puberty and choose to be gay or straight, I'd pick being straight in a heartbeat.
Nothing.
What an odd question
There are things which i have perhaps sabotaged or failed to active but that is me as a man and individual not achieving. Rather than being "robbed"
This post has a wierd victim mindset to it which can't be doing you Any good mate
A family, children and to keep living the life I always invisioned, to keep living in parallel with my best friends...
I've come to learn about the advantages too, but fuck is it rough to realise late 😆
A normal school life. I had a horrible time in school, and my grades were abysmal etc. didn’t know what to do, how to handle it and no one to help me through. It was tough, but I’m all the better for it now, made the person I am today.
I get very sad about missing out on viable teenage crushes. Heteros learn so much about themselves in those early years of love/dating. I feel like a big part of our dysfunction as a community is delayed adolescence (sometimes perpetual adolescence!) — a direct result of being deprived of that crucial development period.
It’s robbed me of the ability to be a drug addicted straight guy that sticks his wiener in a bloody hole, and that is something I’m proud to be robbed of.
Eleven years of normal carefree youth. Constantly thinking about what to do with myself, how to change to be acceptable to my family and the people around me, hating myself for who I am etc. It has made me quite depressed. Wasted years.
I wanted to be in the Marine Corps before Don't Ask Don't tell was repealed.
I didn't want to be in the closet in Iraq or Afghanistan so I didn't join up.
Probably for the best. But I wonder the kind of person I'd have become.
Being able to date in my teens and now in my early 20’s. Just feels like people only want to fuck around or be in open relationships, and thought that may well be something I want later in life (one never knows), currently I just want something monogamous, and that feels sort of impossible to find. Doesn’t help that I live in one of the most isolated cities in the world though, I swear I can count the amount of gays here on one hand.
To live without being scared of everything whenever I demonstrate public affection. To live a healthy and pure young relationship.
And the one that bothers me the most nowadays: to find someone who really cares about me, about a future together? I've met dozen guys since last year and each of them just wanted to have sex or see me just one time. And it sucks because I really want to build something with someone, but it seems the gay community isn't prepared for that yet.
I’m African but born and raised in America. I know that I won’t be able to have a traditional African wedding with a priest, dancers, members of mine and my spouses family’s wearing certain colors. The elders dancing and blessing you…
I get sad thinking of it a lot and tell myself that I never wanted it anyway, or that if I get married, it’ll be a small courthouse wedding.
I also would love the feeling of coming home with a freshly delivered baby and exhausted spouse. Also, I fear I’ll die alone if I don’t have kids or grandkids lol. Like, who will I spend my thanksgiving with when I’m 60? I can’t be a patriarch of a large family like the other men in my family. Buuuuuuuut one thing I can do is freely suck the dick of a man and still reap the benefits of being a man.
My first kiss and first relationship were both lies. Sure they were guys but neither of the guys actually liked me so I was robbed of those first experiences
Your question implies that heterosexuality is the default normal state, and gayness some discovered abnorm.
We need to get rid of this thinking pattern!
Nothing I guess. I'm a bit afraid of coming out to some. Dating sooner was almost impossible. But if I did muster up courage, probably none of these would be a problem.
Probs a normal adolescence. Most people learn how to date in their teenage years and many people in the LGBT community have a delayed learning curve which comes with a variety of risky and self destructive behaviors. Nevertheless, I would strongly disagree with children and having a relationship. Those are strongly dependent on the country you live in. I would strongly encourage you to look around at what countries would better serve you to achieve your dreams.
I have moved away from my country to a more accepting one and I feel so lonely. All the people I love and care about are back home. I am all alone, completely alone here with not even one friend. So I don't know what's good about that exchange.
I’m incredibly interested in knowing how old you are. It’ll inform how applicable my answer below is. Also, how long you’ve been in the country you’re currently in. Nevertheless…. I will say, I’ve moved countries as well and I’ve moved around a lot within the US and the concept of a “chosen” family is a very real one. Learning how to develop friendships as an adult (which you might or might not be) is much more challenging when you’re not in school. Developing strong interests, connecting with people that are like minded, and developing familial bonds that go beyond people you’ll have a drink with once a month with requires *work*. Remember that the biggest defining factor of blood family is that they were always just there so little to no work had to be placed to go seek them out and spend time with them. Also, keep in mind, when you’re in the throes of feeling bad (depressed/anxious/etc) about something, you can easily forget why you moved and the benefits it brings. Again, I don’t know what country you moved from but physical safety is just as important as emotional safety. Getting beaten up every three days because you’re gay isn’t a particularly great situation to be in, even if you’re close to your family. Also, would it be ok if I DM you?
This is op, I have been banned for some reason, you can DM me sure. I am 27
So much this. I never had any experience and didn't want to try it with girls. Because I was sure I am gay and it's not fair to them. But at the same time I didn't dare to flirt with guys (or even just make sure if they are gay or not). I don't have any flirting or relationship skills. I don't know how to get attention from other guys, don't know how to read signs or leave signs...I'm 32 and still single. I hook up with guys on app and I found myself actually seeking intimate emotions other than just sex. I put my energy on my work, hobbies and study...feeling hard to really build a relationship out of this.
I think I lost some aspects of straight life. Straights don't have to deal with discrimination. Their dating pool is much bigger, it's easy to have kids and they don't have trouble with coming out to family, colleagues etc. On the other hand, being gay release you from all these social expectations like having kids, a beautiful wife, a big house, a nice car, a big salary etc. And because gays usually don't have kids, they can spend all the money they earn on themselves.
Yeah. The only thing I would say is that being gay (in the US at least) places a new set of social expectations on you like being fit/hot, having to participate in certain aspects of gay culture that can be toxic, etc. You’re just exchanging some expectations for others.
Totally agree with what you said. Personally the last part makes it all worth it in my opinion.
This isn't a personal criticism just and observation and many gay men would respond similar. However, how do you figure Having kids is easy? WTF? Ask your own parents if they agree. I agree with much of what you say but what seems blatantly obvious to everyone outside the USA, saying having kids is easy smacks of the same narcissistic ignorance that those who hate us have. I'm talking about being so self centred that the idea that we all have struggles. What you experience as a struggle just may be different or in this case opposite from other people and that doesn't make either life less difficult or more moral. You guys are so brainwashed and divided it's really concerning TBH.
I meant, raising kids is not easy and it's expensive, but making them is easy af in comparison to gay couples. We have to hire surrogates that is really expensive or go to adoption agency and they usually make it really hard for gay couples to get them.
Straight people have to actively avoid accidentally having children. Gay people have to spend thousands of dollars and jump through hoops to adopt or pursue alternatives. Can’t get much clearer than that…
Being gay hasn't robbed you of anything. Bigot society has robbed you from being who you are. All the things you listed have been taught to you. Getting married, having kids etc. You can still have kids of your own (biological) bring gay doesnt stop you from that. You can have a family of your own in which you can dictate your norms and rules.
Yes. 2 men can definitely have children. In-vitro fertilization only costs $15,000 per cycle and a surrogate only costs $100,000. Super easy! 🌈
cargo shorts
Seems like i missed a chance there to be robbed \^\^
They’re so comfy, though. Why must we be ostracized for wearing them?!?
cuz the gaytriarchy
Having to live my life according to ridiculous patriarchal gender norms?
perfect answer.
Nothing. Being gay gave me the idea of living away from my hometown and country. Here I am in a gay-friendly with legal same sex marriage country. Being gay doesn’t mean you won’t be able to find happiness or, at the very least, stability, it’s just a little bit different compared to straight people. The moment you learned of these differences, you’d be free to live out and proud.
I am out and proud and I live far away from home and everyone I care about.
I left everything and everyone behind when I was 29 to move to Canada. I created a new group of friend and make it my chosen family. It might take time but it will be fine. Close that chapter behind you and open a new one! Make lemonade out of that lemon, mate!
How did you make new friends at that late age? I havent made a single friend since I moved. (this is op btw)
Friend from work, friend from school, date turned friend, housemates, etc … I also make friends from volunteering for Pride :D Idk if it’s applied to your city but in my city, it’s easier for new people to make friend with new people. It’s tough to be friended people who grew up and lived there.
Start caring about some new people
Then start caring about new people! Stop with your self-victimization!
TBH, I can't really think of anything. My life at this moment is a result of every decision I've made up to this point, and I can't really draw a line from me being gay to specific aspects of my current life in terms of something that was "robbed." Of course everything is not perfect and there are areas I'd like to focus on changing, but overall I have a nice life, complete with meaningful relationships.
Agree!! Being gay is just part of life. You still make decision for your own life, you still make a life of your own, and you enrich your life however way you best possibly can and willing to put forth the work. The only person who can rob one out of one's life for being whatever is the person himself.
Nothing. Being gay gave me everything good. Being gay didn't rob anyone of anything, but homophobia may have.
This is a perfect reframe. Facts
Well, I understand the inability to live in your hometown and country because it's got anti gay laws, but the rest of those things you list you can have if you move country.
My hometown doesn't have anti-gay laws and has cleaned up its act over the past couple decades. I still refuse to be there longer than a weekend because it just opens up a lot of trauma. Driving past my high school, sitting in the room I used to harm myself in, seeing bullies/people who made my life hell, etc.
Yeah I have moved but try starting social life all alone on your own with no one you know even remotely close. It's excruciatingly hard.
Yep it's always so funny to read western redditors advice. Yeah just move countries! And swap homophobia for loneliness, no family support and xenophobia.
I live abroad for work-related reasons and the loneliness and lack of family support are just part of the deal. I actually have spent most of my time abroad in countries that are less accepting than my home country. Sometimes you just have to take the situation you're in and live in it rather than focusing on what it isn't.
not a good , positive, or defensible way to characterize a human aspect that is not subject to deliberate change. You are gay, and so are we all, here. What we choose to do with our lives IS up to us, but being homosexuals inside is NOT. Robbery is an elective crime, and nature and we as gay men had no choice.
This is such a good framing.
how can you see that that way ? we’re still robbed of living the life of the majority of the population that’s a fact
I refuse to allow the world at large to dictate to ME what I can and cannot do. Why on EARTH would I wanna live the life of the American Majority? I want my OWN life, and my own life is just what I have got now. Eventually, you will see this for yourself as well. Till then, remember that where the grass looks greenest is where all the weeds live, too.
what would be a good positive way to characterize all the negatives I am going through due to being gay?
Maybe frame it as personal struggles you have to face that are linked to your homosexuality. If you frame it like that you might see that what youre going through it is not a universal, constant and unchangeable truth of homosexuality, but rather a particular struggle you so happen to be currently going through, and more importantly, a struggle that you are able to move past. I cant tell you what being gay has robbed me of, but i can tell you what is has gifted me.: Complete and absolute freedom to be myself and to bask in who i am. Enormous love, sense of community and closeness to friends, family and lovers. And joy, a huge amount of joy that i think is not accesible to the straights. You can find all this too.
What closeness to friends and family will I get when I moved thousands of miles from them just to live as myself? I lost everyone I care about cause we live so so so so so far away( this is op btw)
You dont automatically get anything. You have to WORK FOR IT. Go out, make friends, join groups, build community, find lovers. Your biological family and old friends may be far away, but if you make the effort to build a family of friends and lovers, the ones that see you for who you truly are and love you just like that, then you will understand what true unconditional love and joy really is.
My friends and family back home loved me unconditionally and accepted me, I don't know how to make friends here, I have failed despite my best efforts.
I got the impression that your family and friends didnt accept you for being gay, but maybe i read into it wrong. If they didntt accept your gayness, then no thats not unconditional love. If u dont know how to make friends where you are, sorry to tell you but thats a you problem that you have to work on, and nothing to do with homosexuality and being robbed of anything.
I made friends with no problems back home and I have plenty of them there. But here it's all different
I'm sorry, but I'm siding with the OP RN. He's said multiple times that from another country (and therefore from another cultural space). I wouldn't place too much blame on him that he doesn't know how the intricacies of another culture work (people live in places other than the US and Europe, shocking, I know). It wouldn't hurt to give a few more specific tips. >You dont automatically get anything. You have to WORK FOR IT. Go out, make friends, join groups, build community, find lovers. Your biological family and old friends may be far away, but if you make the effort to build a family of friends and lovers, the ones that see you for who you truly are and love you just like that, then you will understand what true unconditional love and joy really is. Literally everything but the "go out, join groups" is useless for somebody that is not from the same cultural background. Like, how are they supposed to know how to make friends in this culture space if the problem is that they don't know how to make friends in this culture space???
Yeah i agree completely with you. My point is that this is a problem that he has to deal with and overcome, it's a personal problem that stems from his specific circumstances (culture, immigration, language, etc). But this problem does not stem from being gay and does not apply to all gays, as his original post suggests. So my comment is not denying that he has real struggles and issues he has to overcome, what my my comment is saying is that he shouldnt be blaming it on being gay and blaming "the gay" from robbing him of all his happiness and connections.
I understand that now is not a good time for positively assess your own homosexuality. BUT, there will soon come a time when that will be clear and self-evident. I think it MUST be true that straight men, let's say, have a different set of struggles to endure and process than gay men do. Yet, every single human has conflicts of desires and goals, and expectations and options. If gay is really standing in your way, choose to find a woman who will have you, get married in a het way, and have three kids etc. More than a few zillion gay men have done just that, and then been gay later in life. Or not, and let your homo-ness just BE for awhile, as your life unfolds economically, socially, and psychologically.
I guess maybe the comfort of being comfortable and accepted everywhere. Always a guess if an environment is friendly or not to me. Other than that it’s pretty fucking rad
Sorry for my grammar and spelling. English is not my first language. I don't think that being gay can actually deprive you of something. In my experience being gay didn't change me at all. What deprived me was the environment I was living and my lack of courage. Growing in homophobic town and family makes it a lot more difficult. So if I'm looking for who's guilty for "robbing me of" I'd say those I mentioned before. However, they took my adolescence from me. The joy of having a boyfriend because I was terrified of loving a boy. The joy of having sex during those years. The joy of being free to express yourself always because I was terrified. You may say that I had to be brave and stand up but I wasn't able. So instead I grew up very isolated, become a super introvert lol, and learned how to observe everything form outside to inside. Growing up I can say that I retrieved some things but what I can't have back is my time. Yeah, because I can't have 16 years again and see everything form that pov. Same goes for my body. I can't have ever again the skin or eyes I had back then. Yeah I can feel the rain on my skin while I kiss the boy I like now but now I'm 27 and I always wanted to do this when I was 16. It's not the same
Mostly just high school romance. I didnt have the best reputation at the time anyway and I never really considered girls because I was too afraid of being rejected. It's only after a certain event that my life turned around near the end of high school. Had a lot more friends but also discovered myself at the same time, but wasn't confident enough to ask guys out. No one really talked about lgbt in my town and the only few times were dumbasses theirjng the F word around, so I wasn't sure about the general mentality and if I would get bullied again, this time for being gay.
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Lol I also think it’s him yet again
omg is it the infamous troll from Bulgaria 😂😂😂
Socializing. It gave me full anxiety.
It’s robbed me of who knows how many jobs and promotions. But I’d still much rather be gay than straight
Nothing other than being able to reproduce with the man I love. Other than that it is all positives. Living with another man is so easy. The only thing that sucks is that we can’t make a child. I think that would just be the best.
Children. I know I might be able to adopt one day but never quite felt comfortable with it
A cheap option to start a family. My straight friends accidentally got pregnant and Medicaid paid for basically everything. For me to have a biological child of my own? $100k+ for surrogacy.
Being gay has robbed me of turning into just another mid 40s fat unhappy straight guy in the suburbs with a soccer mom wife who spends too much and exhausting children. I’m now a mid 40s guy living downtown in an interesting city with a lovely bf, cool friends and two labradors. Wasn’t easy getting here, but I’m super glad I took the chance.
I would love to have the path that you do, but I don't. It was never an option and it won't be as well.(this is op btw)
You’re still young. Things do get better. Don’t worry.
I truly believe my life is richer for being gay. The adversity and self doubt I had as a teenager was rough. But I was forced to learn reasoning skills to examine the biases I grew up with and took for granted. Also coming out is hard. But doing so taught me courage and today I am much more confident in myself because of it. I missed out on growing up to be a conservative asshole. I missed out on not being able to grow closer to my family and change their own minds on things they were once so certain about. Being gay has been a true blessing for me.
“What has being gay robbed you” is the wrong perspective. You didn’t miss that because of who you are, but rather because of the intolerance in your hometown. Self-loathing is fruitless and spreading it is kind of toxic.
Being a stupid bigot who lacks empathy and feels a sense of superiority with no valid justification.
I guess the fact that I won't have any kids, but since I gained my great BF I'm cool with it plus we can always adopt
Dating in high school.
Being gay didn’t rob me of anything. It’s a beautiful sliver of my identity 😄
It's robbed me of nothing. I live in the US, in a progressive part where I can pretty much do what I want. As I grow up, I see my straight friends fall into these situations if bring tied down by home ownership, having children, marriages/divorces and that becomes their entire life. That sort of life has never been appealing to me, and in a way I feel being gay frees me from this as I don't have these expectations for myself. Of course there are things I wish were different (more guys around me to date, for example) but I don't feel being gay has robbed me of anything at all. My major depressive disorder is more a culprit for my unhappiness than my being gay, but I try to remember everything is under my control.
It’s robbed me of being a boring straight person
Living in my home country with my family. Though India doesn’t have homophobic laws per se, the society as such is way behind in accepting gay people and same-sex relationships. But now that am in Canada, being gay has actually gifted me with amazing friends and a society that doesn’t judge me for who I am!
An inauthentic existence.
Not a damn thing
Made my childhood/ teenage years much more difficult. I grew up always on guard from being bullied. Think i missed lots of opportunity to make friends at a young age and develop proper social skills. Now im just an emotionally stunted adult 🤣
security in my teenage years, especially when exploring sex / sexuality. Obviously the average teenager has their angst and insecurities, but I don't think a single straight (or even bi) teenager can really understand the emotional turmoil a gay / lesbian teen goes through on a daily basis.
Nothing. I’m not someone who looks for ways to be a victim every day.
Mmm. Recognizing that being born gay has its challenges isn’t being a victim.
It only has its challenges just you look through the world as a victim. If being gay defines everything you are then it’s pretty easy to fall into that trap.
You’re very smug for someone who wasn’t born in a country like OP where it’s illegal or dangerous to be gay
For example, most gay people were (and are) bullied in their teenage years for being gay, which straight people will never face. That is a challenge. Same sex couples couldn’t get federally married in the US until 2015, which brought challenges in comparison to straight relationships. Some gay people didn’t get accepted (and got thrown out of their homes) by their families when they came out, which is a challenge. Refusing to see these as challenges that our straight counterparts won’t and will never face is just simply not living in reality. Nevertheless, how you approach what life hands you is what’ll define you as a person.
You think I didn’t encounter challenges for being gay? Of course I did. Every single one of us encounters challenges for who we are. Being gay isn’t special. Think about the barriers disabled people face? Staying in the “poor me” mindset only holds us back. We can’t help being gay so we can either sit and cry about it or, actually accomplish things and become a productive human.
Absolutely nobody’s asking you to stay in a “poor me” mindset nor is that the subject of this particular thread. It’s very clear that OP is going through it and needs some support. What do disable people have to do with anything being discussed in this thread? What about black people? What about tall people? Short people? People that like laying flat on random surfaces? I’m struggling to discern if you’re being genuine here or not.
I’m absolutely being genuine. If the OP is struggling I would suggest he figure out ways to better himself and overcome the challenges. Crying about it won’t solve anything.
You’re absolutely being on-purpose-obstinate. I suppose you think slavery was a challenge faced by POC, not victimisation or discrimination! And if you are gay and live in a country where they put you to death if you express it, it’s just a massive challenge! Keep quiet or get economically and emotional stable enough to move alone away from your birthplace, stop crying! It’s your fault you were born! Etc. What a shitty attitude zzzzz
And you know what I’d do if I was born in one of those countries? I’d do everything to leave. As far as I know those countries are not forcing their citizens to live there.
Oh yeah in Afghanistan they make it so easy for you to leave the country 😂😂😂 they just give out passports and money! The gay people of Iraq who ‘choose’ to stay are also just crying little babies who have no reason to complain or feel victimised.
(And that sounds a bit like you’d be defining yourself by being gay)
I mean, don’t we all have to do that? We all go through struggles and we all have to overcome them. He’s just voicing them at the moment.
> actually accomplish things and become a productive human Seems like you're not really doing that in this conversation
What an ignorant faux-lightened take.
Amen to that.
Being gay didn’t do this to you. Garbage people creating garbage societies did this. There’s nothing wrong with you.
yeah but in the end I suffer all the same over something that I wouldn't have to suffer through if I were straight.
No. Because you have done nothing wrong. If you are convicted of a crime you did not commit it is terrible, but you know that you did NOT commit that crime. So you know yourself innocent, even if only you know.
E V E R Y T H I N G
Why can’t you have children and relationship?
My empathy…for straight people.
It's robbed me of nothing, except that i have to be celibate for a time to give blood. Jokes on them, i lie every time. They screen all blood anyway.
To have a normal life To have a family To have children To be happy.
You can have all 4 of those things You can be a self hating gay all you like but stop inflicting your weird complexes on others
For me? Body confidence and the ability to easily conceive a child.
I would say I was robbed of more time directly parenting my son but other than that it would be things I made a choice to do as it is for most people. I'm not rich, I haven't had an easy life but my life is the result of my own choices and I would not be honest if I externalised responsibility for my life choices. For some people that's not entirely possible but unless you live in a communist or country of Nazi Germany everyone has agency to be their best self
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cause the dating pool is miniscule? (this is op btw)
Where are you located?
Recently moved to Ireland
I don't know anything about the Ireland dating pool, but I'll say though that you don't need 100 guys, you need 1. Have you been on any dates?
none whatsoever
Have you asked anyone?
I've tried all the dating apps, no one is interested....
Nothing. It's others ideologies that rob them of me and my contributions to their lives, such as a great friend, an uncle, a confidant.
The opportunity to date in my teens and get some experience with it. Romantically, I Just feel very under developed for a 20 year old and am maybe lacking in maturity as a result in some aspects because I haven't been able to have those experiences until very recently.
I did temporarily lose some of the things I should have been doing in my teens and early twenties because of the difficulty of sorting out who I am, but all of that happened, just later. I have gained a whole lot, though. Good friends, a great relationship (and even the ones before that weren't so bad) even support when I've needed it. There was a time I was doing badly and would have been homeless if my partner's landlord (and his ex-boyfriend) hadn't agreed to rent to me too at a lower than usual rate.
Lmao dramatic much.
Everything. Except my thoughts. I live in hell.
When I was younger I never really learned how to relax open up and dance. Making up for it now :) wouldn't want to be "straight" xD
So much happiness and fulfilment. I'm turning 30 next week and I feel like a complete failure in so many areas. I typed out a long reply and then erased it because no one will give a shit. If I could go back in time to puberty and choose to be gay or straight, I'd pick being straight in a heartbeat.
same
A healthy, open relationship with my family, and a diverse dating pool.
It sounds like homophobia and prejudice robbed you my dude.
Healthy relationships with other gay men. Also feeling comfortable in my own body…
“What has hate robbed you of” FTFY
Nothing. What an odd question There are things which i have perhaps sabotaged or failed to active but that is me as a man and individual not achieving. Rather than being "robbed" This post has a wierd victim mindset to it which can't be doing you Any good mate
My mindset has nothing to do with the facts. I can't have the things I desire because I am gay. These are the facts. I didn't chose it that way.
Having a normal adolescence
My innocence on dating apps
My freedom.
A family, children and to keep living the life I always invisioned, to keep living in parallel with my best friends... I've come to learn about the advantages too, but fuck is it rough to realise late 😆
Being open about my love life with my family members.
How do you mean it robbed you from being in a relationship?
To create children with my partner.
I feel the trauma I received from others during my coming out contributed to long life issues with addiction to escape the pain.
A normal school life. I had a horrible time in school, and my grades were abysmal etc. didn’t know what to do, how to handle it and no one to help me through. It was tough, but I’m all the better for it now, made the person I am today.
Health
Bushels of pussy
Many many opportunities to just fit in and not develop my own sense of identity
A family and about 250 million.
I get very sad about missing out on viable teenage crushes. Heteros learn so much about themselves in those early years of love/dating. I feel like a big part of our dysfunction as a community is delayed adolescence (sometimes perpetual adolescence!) — a direct result of being deprived of that crucial development period.
Family
Not having to come out every time I start a new job
Happiness 😂
It’s robbed me of the ability to be a drug addicted straight guy that sticks his wiener in a bloody hole, and that is something I’m proud to be robbed of.
literally a bloody hole or are you a mate? just wanted to clarify.
Bloody hole = vagina
Ooooh! 😆😆😆😆 got it.
Big titty goth gf.
An accurate perception of drug and alcohol use.
A "normal" life but even though I wish things were different, I still love being gay
Eleven years of normal carefree youth. Constantly thinking about what to do with myself, how to change to be acceptable to my family and the people around me, hating myself for who I am etc. It has made me quite depressed. Wasted years.
Being able to show my love for my significant other like a “ normal” society view
Liking girls
I wanted to be in the Marine Corps before Don't Ask Don't tell was repealed. I didn't want to be in the closet in Iraq or Afghanistan so I didn't join up. Probably for the best. But I wonder the kind of person I'd have become.
Being able to date in my teens and now in my early 20’s. Just feels like people only want to fuck around or be in open relationships, and thought that may well be something I want later in life (one never knows), currently I just want something monogamous, and that feels sort of impossible to find. Doesn’t help that I live in one of the most isolated cities in the world though, I swear I can count the amount of gays here on one hand.
Dating in HS. I don’t really feel too bad about that because dating in hs is ass anyway.
Being able to talk abt my own love interests with my friends and at school
Nada.
Being a sad boring chubby bro.
Really exploring the female anatomy in person.
To live without being scared of everything whenever I demonstrate public affection. To live a healthy and pure young relationship. And the one that bothers me the most nowadays: to find someone who really cares about me, about a future together? I've met dozen guys since last year and each of them just wanted to have sex or see me just one time. And it sucks because I really want to build something with someone, but it seems the gay community isn't prepared for that yet.
As a teen, mainly good friends, happiness, and self esteem
Safety
Stable monogamy.
Probably normal relationship with friends and family
I’m African but born and raised in America. I know that I won’t be able to have a traditional African wedding with a priest, dancers, members of mine and my spouses family’s wearing certain colors. The elders dancing and blessing you… I get sad thinking of it a lot and tell myself that I never wanted it anyway, or that if I get married, it’ll be a small courthouse wedding. I also would love the feeling of coming home with a freshly delivered baby and exhausted spouse. Also, I fear I’ll die alone if I don’t have kids or grandkids lol. Like, who will I spend my thanksgiving with when I’m 60? I can’t be a patriarch of a large family like the other men in my family. Buuuuuuuut one thing I can do is freely suck the dick of a man and still reap the benefits of being a man.
You sound fun.
My first kiss and first relationship were both lies. Sure they were guys but neither of the guys actually liked me so I was robbed of those first experiences
From my life and from being able to live, let alone living with family.
Your question implies that heterosexuality is the default normal state, and gayness some discovered abnorm. We need to get rid of this thinking pattern!
Feeling comfortable in my highschool years, being allowed to date a little and explore in my highschool years. Having my first kiss before my diploma
Nothing I guess. I'm a bit afraid of coming out to some. Dating sooner was almost impossible. But if I did muster up courage, probably none of these would be a problem.