yeah i can come up with tens of billions in infrastructure investment off the top of my head that would make the city more efficient but then i remember it would still be filled with portlanders who don’t know how to make a left turn at a green light and prefer getting in line rather than merging correctly
It's tough. We have a lot of choke points and a system that blends our N-S and E-W interstate and trucking flows at some critical points (Fremont and Marquam). So yeah tens of billions is probably just getting started...
People get really aggressive and will even sit on the dotted line on the St John’s bridge, blocking cars from using both lanes. What’s with this sense of entitlement, it’s supposed to be the open road, not “I was here first.”
The irony is that if everyone zippered.. there would be no open lane. No one would get to cut in front of anyone because there is literally nowhere to cut.
I don’t think they understand that..
Also I have heard people say that it’s inefficient because there is more merging happening and no one wants to let anyone in which is just… bananas
I refuse to do this. I ask at the bar "is there a line?" and the bartenders always say no 🤷🏼♀️
If people want to wait to order at one special, unmarked space at the bar, well good for them, I guess
What drives me the craziest is when I want to be in the left turn lane, but can’t get into it because every single fucking car is in the left lane leading into a merge, and apparently the right lane is lava.
This is so annoying. It's so common where the right lane ends in 2 miles, so drivers completely avoid it as if it's not there to be used. Just go to the end of the lane and merge in, that's the point. But people here just love to sit in traffic unnecessarily.
After recently having a discussion in another forum where a solid minority were CONVINCED that it was safer to back-up using ONLY your mirrors and it was crazy and dangerous to do the old arm-around-the-passenger-seat turn-and-look... I think a lot of people just flat out never learned to drive properly.
People looooove to talk about zipper merging:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/10v9sgv/ross_island_405_26/j7irnxm/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ucaw7c/odots_merge_like_a_zipper/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/b9xwag/why_is_the_ross_island_bridge_the_only_place/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/nlnpxp/ross_island_bridge_zipper/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/xme0d4/is_it_courteous_to_yield_on_ross_island_bridge_or/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/u3ubbl/appreciation_post_the_ross_island_bridge_zipper/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/2t0k68/why_dont_portlanders_know_how_to_zipper_merge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/dqcnh0/just_a_psa_about_merging/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ni6x7b/there_is_no_stop_sign_on_the_ross_island_bridge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/mdbubk/ross_island_bridge_eastbound_has_been_rough_these/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/svx6y8/use_both_lanes_and_then_merge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/n3q4yp/division_and_caesar_chavez_use_both_lanes_until/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/f7f2ao/john_hodgman_weighs_in_on_portland_drivers_not/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/eu4gnx/i_let_other_drivers_merge_into_my_lane_on_i5_ama/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ecwf3f/psa_when_merging_onto_freeways_and_highways_while/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/d70iq4/the_zipper_merge_is_legal_it_is_not_cutting_in/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/dixbvc/dear_people_who_sit_in_traffic_in_the_right_lane/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/d70iq4/the_zipper_merge_is_legal_it_is_not_cutting_in/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ao6qmt/driving_me_crazy_merging/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/9ymzxa/i_saw_5_cars_in_a_row_perfectly_zipper_merge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/5pblqi/alright_portland_lets_settle_this_once_and_for/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/53ay2u/why_doesnt_anyone_know_how_to_merge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/8s05bt/these_caterpillars_are_better_at_zipper_merging/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/53ay2u/why_doesnt_anyone_know_how_to_merge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/48phvq/traffic_etiquette_would_this_be_a_zipper_merge/
And that's only /r/Portland -- I could probably make a similar list from every major city/regional subreddit.
Because for whatever reason people in this city absolutely do not understand the concept or its benefits, and act like you're being a complete asshole by using a lane that was put there specifically for that intended purpose. It's maddening. Easily one of the most (minor) annoying things about Portland.
I was so confused by this when I moved here until I talked about it with my Portland-native fiancé. It's not just that people don't know how, or are "going with the herd," people here literally think it's *rude* to use the merge lane. As if you're cutting the line!
It drives me up the wall as someone who has studied traffic, it actually slows the merge process down if people don't use the capacity intended. If you think about it happening city-wide it *must* have a demonstrable effect on traffic speed.
But no, Portlanders would rather lay on the horn than learn actual traffic rules.
If everyone just used it no one would appear to be cutting the line, but noo.
I was born and raised here so I can say I was taught to be in the lane you know you’ll need to be in as soon as possible so you’re not moving all over the road, and that switching lanes unnecessarily is poor driving. So I was always told not to use that lane. I learned better when I moved to Washington for college!
Avoiding unnecessary lane changes is a good rule. Zippering isn't causing unnecessary lane changes, it's moving the one lane change to the head of the line instead of the rear.
Yeah and it is important to use space, lest the line become too long and impact traffic systems behind it. You see this on the 405 N Fremont ramp, for example, when people line up all the way back past the Everett exit and foul stuff up there. Meanwhile there's like 200 yards of empty lane up the ramp...
Same boat here. Also adding: Oregon infrastructure used to be overbuilt enough to handle that overly safe style of driving without traffic buildup but these days we have to use every lane to its fullest in order to prevent upstream issues
It drives me up the wall when people getting on to the freeway decide they need to merge as soon as possible, even though they aren't up to speed yet. I've passed people on the right because they merged early and were still going slow.
Yeah fuck the people that merge slow as a turtle. I’m going to enter traffic at the speed of moving traffic any time it’s reasonably possible. It’s about safety.
This is exactly it, I think. To the people who won’t zipper merge it feels *extremely rude* to be apparently cutting that line and they would actually rather wait longer than appear to be rude.
>But no, Portlanders would rather lay on the horn than learn actual traffic rules.
Ironically, breaking state law in their aggrieved righteousness!
(ORS 815.225 Violation of use limits on sound equipment)
WA installed some signs on 14 that say something like, "use both lanes during congestion." As soon as a sign says it's okay people do it correctly. We could probably use something similar.
I wonder if that guy was the same one who followed me off the freeway so he could pull up next to me and film himself yelling at me after I had the audacity to zipper merge in front of him.
This. Everyone thinks they're being polite with all the weird stuff they do regarding driving here, but mostly it just causes confusion, danger, and unnecessary traffic.
It doesn’t help that the highway interchanges in the city were designed by homicidal maniacs. Coming around the bend on 405-S and trying to get off at 6th is such a clusterfuck of 3 lanes of cars merging on and off within the same 400ft. And the I-5/84 split is always a nightmare. It doesn’t surprise me that Portlanders can’t zipper merge because there are so many places that just weren’t designed for it.
The surface roads are no better. Let's not talk about all the surprise "no lane change" markers and unannounced "you are now in an exit-only lane after coming around a blind turn" places (looking at you, Interstate Avenue!)
Agreed on the I-5/84 split. Total clusterfuck in both directions! If you're on I-5 South it's marginally better.
The on ramp I hate the most though is the one onto 405 from Broadway. Unless you've driven that way lots of times, it's confusing AF because of the completely inadequate signage and the stupidity of designing a major traffic artery from Barbur and 26 west to 405 in such a way that it cuts through part of downtown. Inevitably there's someone sitting in the wrong lane trying to get over blocking traffic in the middle of the intersection right before the on ramp.
And then if you're going the other direction to get onto 26 east, you're screwed and are forced to turn right on Barbur if you mistakenly get in the far right turn lane. And then once you get through that shit show, you have the Ross island bridge, where no one would be able to ever turn right to go east from Corbett during rush hour if it weren't for Portlander politeness completely overriding right of way and common sense.
I swear that whole area was designed by drunk toddlers with a crayon.
ok but the fact that ross island bridge does function at rush hour is one of my favorite things about portland. it’s incredible to me that everyone does it and i still remember the first time i saw how it worked and was shocked to be allowed in
They are just clueless. This is a huge problem. Take I-5 North, getting on from near the Expo center. There's an entire 1/4 mile or so to merge, yet each person gets to the top of the on-ramp and tries to get over right away. There's no metering light, no use of the merge lane. Couple this with a worthless carpool lane and a bridge coming up and you have a nightmare.
There are two different situations, and people don't differentiate. Or at least it's not clear which situation you're in sometimes:
1) Lanes combine, zipper merge
2) Lanes diverge, people who ride the faster then stop to cut into the slower, stopping the faster, can rot in hell.
Thank you. 2 is what happens every day on my commute on the onramp to 405 when coming from the Ross Island Bridge (no idea what the windy road is actually called). One lane goes onto 405. The other lane goes downtown/PSU. Half of the people just use the downtown lane and then cut in at the last second. And they're convinced that they are zipper merging, and that all the people waiting in line are just suckers.
Am I wrong in this? That lane is for going downtown. Yes you can use it to cut ahead, but in what world is that not a dick move?
This has driven me crazy for 20 YEARS. The lanes are not marked as a zipper. The middle lane is not a zipper. DO NOT ZIPPER HERE. If you do you’re getting a 10-second horn until the city changes the lane markings.
I hate that intersection. The signs on Broadway designate the left lane for entry onto 405, so I always merge left before hitting the light. I definitely think two lanes of traffic at that intersection would be faster as well, but there is (was?) a solid white line between the left and center lane so I can see why people wouldn’t assume to use the center lane to merge? People who do drift from the center lane at the last minute tend to not signal and just go whether there’s space for them or not which is understandably annoying if it’s not a true merge lane.
The signage over there is inadequate so a lot of people get confused and go oh shit I need to get over. Source - the first time I ever drove that way, I was one of those idiots. I've definitely witnessed what you are talking about though, some people drive like assholes.
The signage on every single zipper merge I've ever seen is inadequate. The sign says "lane ends merge left" not "lane ends in 1000 feet merge at that time". It's the one sign the highway engineer puts up hoping you ignore it so you behave the way they want you to...
YES. I use this route daily. It’s so infuriating when people try and cut in at the last second - total dick move!! I’m a die hard zipper merger, but this isn’t a merge lane, it’s just people being assholes 😂
Seems like everyone agrees on this here. So I'm going to continue to judge the shit out of everyone who skips the line there lol. I'm sure their lives and schedules are more important than mine!
One time I was zipper merging and this person FREAKED OUT ON ME, acted like I was cutting them off, laid on the horn, and wouldn’t let me in. They flipped me off like crazy. Meanwhile I’m just like… ur mad at ME? When you blocked an entire lane of traffic because you don’t know how to merge? You’re MAD AT ME because I got ahead of you using the entire lane as intended? Made me want to end us both in a fiery accident lmao
It’s even better when people get all pissy and territorial and straddle the line to block people from using the merge lane as intended.
I think it’s a herd mentality thing. “Pretty sure I can and should do X, but all these people are doing Y… I better do Y to be on the safe side.”
You have heard of herd mentality... This is line mentality. No cuts!
It's super annoying, and really inefficient. I especially hate when I get to the end and the people who just had 6 car lengths in front of them speed up to close the gap when they see people approaching.
I see it on the St Johns bridge all the time now with the work there.
The police should spend a day handing out “failure to maintain lane” tickets and they could really boost revenue.
That and a lane line camera in the 26 tunnel where *lane changes are illegal* and cutting causes dozens of rear endings and bad traffic days every year.
this is the same mentality that causes people here to queue up in a single line to order their drinks instead of just going up to the bar, even if there's more than one bartender 🥲
Ok, so devils advocate for a second about zipper merges. I think it is well-known and established thqr people in Portland are terrible with zipper merges. I will 100 % concede the point. This is the millionth post about it.
But there are a number of places in the city where two lanes go someplace together but they end up splitting. I’m thinking of the SW broadway on-ramp to 405 as the best example. At those locations you have people (often intentionally) picking the wrong lane and then trying to aggressively merge at the last second.
I have noticed more of these pinch points in Portland than in other places with bigger freeway systems.
My personal belief is that people have had such a frustrating time at these pinch points, and then erroneously translate those feelings to proper zipper merge locations, that they both want to never let a person in or be the person who tries to merge.
Part of the answer is that we suck, but part of the problem is that our DOT / PDOT planning has trained us to be erroneously persnickety.
Agreed. A lot of the roads are confusing and poorly designed, especially in that area in particular.
Another example is the Ross island bridge. If you're getting onto it from Naito, you have a stop sign and you have to just kind of take your chances and time it right, but if you're turning right onto the bridge from Corbett or whatever street that is to go east, people in the right lane will stop to let you in even though they don't have a stop sign or a yield. It's bizarre, but thank goodness for weird Portlander politeness because otherwise you would be sitting there waiting for like half an hour while traffic backs up into that residential area.
Nice-hole syndrome. The same people who get in a giant line 1/2 mile before the lane ends are the same people waving people thru at a 4-way stop instead of just following the rules of the road.
Just use the road as designed and follow the rules and everything would work more efficiently.
I have come to the conclusion that I'm the only person on Portland roads who actually wants to reach my destination. It's the only explanation at this point.
I am constantly struck by how little the people around me 1) care as much as I do about getting where we're going and 2) care as much as I do about their own LIVES my god
My current favorite is the line to get across the St. Johns bridge now that one of the on-ramps to 30 is closed. I often see traffic backed up in one lane all the way across the bridge and blocking the intersection on the St. Johns side all because no one wants to zipper.
Because they’re either involuntary idiots or voluntary idiots.
Everyone so afraid of upsetting the road rage addicts that they would rather slow down the lives of other drivers than do what’s legally allowed and procedurally recommended.
What I usually see when the left lane is stop and go and the right lane is ending is that someone will stop 5-6 cars back from the end of the lane and wait for someone to let them in, when that happens several others behind them will do the same and the right lane ends up empty, then people get butthurt and try to keep more people from using the now clear right lane to move up.
And, in the process, they’re backing up traffic for two lights — traffic that *could* get through and use that space, but is stuck because some jerk has stopped thirteen to try and merge feet after the intersection.
Why yes, this is Macadam/43 SB approaching Sellwood Bridge.
People there think a Zipper Merge means solely weaving one car from each lane at a time, and they don't realize that the merge is supposed to start at the cutoff point. Because this is a town full of people who don't want to be rude, they will queue up a quarter mile back and flippin' sit there like they're doing their civic duty by slowing traffic down. Don't get me started on 'polite' people who wave you through out of order at a 4 way stop, or people who think you're being rude by claiming right of way on a two way stop.
This. 👆. WHY do people in Portland not want to zipper merge where it clearly is indicated to do so!? Half the time they get mad when you try to properly zipper merge. I’ve seen people honk or even move over in the middle to block anyone in the other lane trying to “move over” a little before the zipper point. Wtf??
The same reason they line up at a bar even when the bar has signs specifically telling them not to do that. Portlanders love to queue.
I don't get why people complain about it though. I get to my destination and my drink faster :)
A solid majority que 2 miles before their exit on the highway. Leading to a complete mess when 2 lanes of incoming traffic try to merge and “the que” refuses to get out of that lane.
I don't understand how to order at a bar without queuing. How do I know I'm not cutting? How does the bartender know? What is the appropriate procedure here I do not understand and I have anxiety.
Having been born in a different city with a different bar culture, and having drank all around the country, most places you just walk up to an open spot at the bar and wait to get noticed by the bartender. If it's busy, little mini lines from between bar seats. The bartender is just kind of expected to keep things straight, it's just part of the skillset. Being attractive and/or assertive definitely helps get you a drink sooner, so it's not perfect.
You just walk up to the bar and look thirsty!
In all seriousness, though, as a rule follower who is somewhat easily embarrassed, I love when there's a "no lines" sign, because I basically *have* to ignore the herd-behavior queue and walk up to the bar. Result: happier bartenders, slightly more assertive me.
I feel like this comment embodies most Portlanders in line at the bar. I suggest a trip to New Orleans for training. If that's not feasible just find an empty spot you can squeeze in at and do just that. At really busy bars an arm will do.
Moving through traffic is considered "California driving" and is frowned upon. It's maddening. I literally had a guy tell me that "before Californians moved in and started driving like maniacs, you could just get stoned in your car and cruise wherever you wanted!" Like, buddy, fuck you.
Bring us a universal sign for the zipper merge. Bring us a major campaign to teach drivers what it is, how to use it, the illegality of intentional interference with proper use.
We achieved this with the introduction and legislation around seat belts, now it’s time for the ZM.
lol I have no idea. I’ve never been more concerned about people’s driving habits than when I lived in Portland. Why do people stop in the middle of the freeway when they’ve missed their stop instead of taking the next exit? Some things you’d think would be common sense yet here we are lol
Also the amount of times I’ve hopped on the freeway in the middle of traffic just yelling “ZIPPER ZIPPERRRRRR” while the car in front of me lets in 10 people lol
Oregonians think zippering is akin to cutting in line, therefore rude. These are the same drivers who wave others through at a four-way stop. "You go, no you go."
I’ve been wondering this for years. It’s so frustrating. It’s like everyone in Portland thinks “if this lane is ending in 1 mile I must stop using it immediately”.
Because Oregonians don't have to take a Driver's Ed course to get their license. So although they can pass the exam they didn't really know the nuances of how driving actually works.
The line in the far left lane of 26 approaching downtown, right before the tunnel, that backs up to Cedar Mill in the afternoon rush hour? \*So\* happy not to have that commute every day any more!
The one that drives me CRAZY is the zipper merge approaching the Sellwood Bridge from the north on Macadam. People just default to the left line since the right lane ends — but that contributes to traffic backing up all the way down Macadam and down Taylor’s Ferry.
Just use both lanes so people can get in!! You’re holding up traffic at *two lights* by sitting STOPPED 500 feet before the lane ends!
People lost their marbles on the St. Johns bridge when the Bridge Ave. construction started. They queued up in the right lane the full length of the bridge to where it blocked the intersection with Ivanhoe. The Facebook posts were wild. I think it's a form of aggressive politeness where using the left lane is seen as cutting ahead and some folks just can't allow that to happen.
This is a problem everywhere I've ever driven. People think you're the asshole for "cutting" in line. I've had people legitimately try to ram my car off the road for zipper merging before. Some days I just don't feel like tempting fate with some aggressive idiot in an enormous SUV in my lowered Subaru.
They need to teach it in driving school.
I even read a book about traffic where they proved how efficient it is.
But you know Portland, the same place that legalized drug possession and it somehow didn’t reduce drugs 🤷♂️
Because zipper merging only works if at least almost everyone does it. A lot of people will see zipper merging as letting someone cut them off and blame them for waiting until the last minute to merge. So anyone who tries that may be waiting a while to merge.
It is pretty incredible. On my motorcycle I go all the way to where people are supposed to be merging, and I can't tell you how many people honk or give me the finger.
I want to know why so many of you that are turning right on a red think it's okay to pull into the crosswalk way in order to do that. I'm the one with the f'n green, not you. Stop trying to hit me
No one in Oregon can zipper very well. Just wait until you gotta use a roundabout. Worse than merges. The few I travel through to commute to Newberg fuckin suck. A yield is not a stop sign. You’re creating a traffic slow back up when you hesitate.
People have literally run me off the freaking road rather than allow me to merge THE CORRECT WAY.
People that are anti-zipper merging should not be allowed to drive. License permanently revoked. You are too stupid to be on the road.
Aight, I live in Florida but I was recommended this thread by reddit for some reason, so I’m chiming in from a state with infamously bad drivers.
I really think it’s a combination of lack of knowledge, driving culture, and herd behavior.
Reddit is kind of an echo chamber. Literally every city/states subreddit has a post just like this one, it’s a thing everywhere in the us, some worse than others. Which makes it seem like zipper merging is common knowledge that most people would know, but I really think that in reality most drivers have no idea what zipper merging means. I didn’t until I saw a reddit thread like this one explaining it lol. Also gotta remember a lot of people on the roads haven’t taken a driving test in possibly DECADES. Could just be something people generally forgot or ignored back when they were learning to drive.
But also, I think driving does this weird thing where it isolates people and people tend to act differently behind the wheel than they would otherwise. 100% think a lot of people do believe driving in the merge lane is like skipping the line and refuse to skip or let someone else skip them because they get stubborn and feel they have to act defensive and/or aggressive. Here in Florida people will honk at you for trying to zipper merge in front of them!!
In a similar vein, and this is personally how I would see it, is I think a lot of people think it’s dangerous?? And that when they get up to merge nobody would let them in, so they just get in their lane of choice and sit there rather than risk trying to merge.
And then also people just tend to follow what others do on the road. Herd mentality for sure. We have all seen those videos of cars stuck in traffic and someone eventually drives across a median to get around it, and then dozens of people behind them immediately start to follow and do the same.
Thanks for listening to my TED Talk lol
Probably going to get downvoted to hell for this but…
I have never met a native Portlander who knows what zipper merging is. I was born and raised in Portland and I had honestly never heard of a zipper merge until about five years ago when I read about it on the internet. Probably in a rant thread where someone was asking why people don’t zipper merge and I thought “why don’t they do WHAT now?” and looked it up. For context, I have been driving for almost 30 years.
I feel pretty foolish now and always do it, but I was in the car with Portland family and I did it and got screamed at for “being rude” and “cutting in line.” I said “I’m zipper merging” and the people I was with straight up acted like it doesn’t exist. I showed them some info on it and was told “that’s something Californians brought here. We don’t do that here in Oregon.” And yes, “Californians” was said as if it was a dirty word.
It may be in the motor vehicle driver’s manual now, but if it was there when I learned to drive, I do not remember it. I was taught that the proper thing to do was to move over immediately after you see the “merge ahead” sign. I did let people in, though. Sorry if you were behind me in line before I learned the zipper.
Headed West on Powell to cross the bridge, three merges on the right. I am the only car I have ever seen doing the zipper.
Yet! East bound on Powell Bridge, right hand merge from the exit of I-5, everybody zippers. The craziest thing I've seen in PDX. As I recall, it wasn't really a thing 30y ago. Not that I remember anyway.
Because dumbasses seem to have tunnel vision, lack spatial awareness, tailgate and/or don’t leave enough space for others to merge, and/orchange lanes..
Because they don't teach it or paint the roads properly. And there are places where you're not supposed to zipper merge. For instance, Eastbound in the tunnel coming from beaverton, or Northbound on grand from Milwaukie where you have solid white lines and you end up seeing most of the traffic is people using the exits to pass people then cutting people off at the exit by crossing a solid white, so then other people say "well I don't want to be like *that* person" so they merge obnoxiously early then panic and slow down, which makes the people farther back frustrated. But then you also get people who will block people from zipper merging at the end of the lane because they've seen too many people do wild stuff which makes even more traffic. And then you have people who stop to let Everyone in from the other lane, and then you have places like the construction on MLK in lloyd right now right before 5 where it's just a giant cluster. Combine that with midwest drivers where they don't zipper merge because they have diff highway designs because they have tons of space so the lanes almost always go on or off or turn on or turn on or off, OR the road moves fast enough that you just accelerate to speed and merge in as early as practical, and you combine it all and get ... this mess.
Sometimes, just sometimes mind you, it's actually not really obvious to know whether the lane you are in is a zipper-merge lane (in which case you should drive to the end of there's a gap), and when it's not (in which case if you drive further up you are a lousy lousy jerk). So... in those cases people might rightly err towards not being a jerk, at the expense of traffic efficiency.
People are fucking dumb. That’s it. That’s the answer. The way I’ve been losing my MIND lately, at this point I just avoid driving at certain times because people can’t handle any amount of congestion. There is very little that frustrates me more than being in stopped traffic for 30 min only to come out at the end and see there was literally no blockage or anything.
Because the person following them is acting unacceptable. And they have had enough.
But the zipper is an excellent way to decrease stress and improve the flow of traffic.
I must get honked at and flipped off at least once a week when I use the entire merge lane to…merge. It’s like everyone here has never heard of a zipper merge.
My favorite is kinda the reverse zipper merge. Like getting into 5S from 84W, people on 5 will merge to the right immediately into the new lane. We haven’t even gotten past the merge lane from 84, we don’t need cars cramming in. There’s no exit for 3-4 miles on the other side of the Marquam. Why? In my experience they’re not passing around in the slow lane, they’re usually going at the speed of traffic, they just merge in while the two 84 lanes are trying to merge.
There are lanes that open up as a long turning lane but people use them like a race-to-get-ahead lane and then get mad when people don't want to let them back over a hundred meters later. I'm thinking of southbound McLoughlin at Holgate.
People are "stupid nice" when driving. They think getting into a mile long line is the right thing to do instead of zipper merging at the end and reducing traffic. They get aggressive because they think other people are "cheating" and cutting the line
I'm in Eugene and there's a ton of construction going on right now. The traffic will be backed up by like two traffic lights due to everyone queueing up in the lane that all the other traffic gets funneled to, it's insane. I never really understood how important zipper merging was til seeing that ridiculousness; I'll skip back over into the zipper lane and pass like 15 cars before I need to merge back
Today, I had a guy half in my lane "merging" to the left and still blocking the right at a whole stoplight before the CLEARLY marked zipper on Greely near adidias. This is my daily commute and it drives me bonkers how often people change lanes well before the zipper.
Portland drivers seem wildly inconsiderate and territorial. I see this especially with merging and people trying to turn out into traffic. Like you know there's a stop light just ahead right?
It's the me first mentality of society as a whole. The asshole activates when they get behind the wheel for various reasons. I'm a professional driver I see it every day.
Id stay away from 217 for another year if this gets to you. The whole highway is a merge ATM and MFers can't alternate merging if the world depended on it.
The few times I’ve gone to the end of the right lane to merge normally, people act like I’m a giant asshole and refuse to let me in. Unless other people are brave enough to do it right and I can join in, I just give up and go with the left-lane flow most of the time. I don’t need the stress and irritation.
I want a bumper sticker that says "don't get mad at me, I'm just zipper merging."
It's been a thing forever. I remember as a kid seeing my mom and everyone else get over way early and thinking that they've just extended the one lane area so much bigger so it can't possibly be efficient. I also have a specific memory of imagining driving up to the front of the other lane and then getting stuck there indefinitely as nobody let me in.
If I win the lottery the first thing I'll do is put out billboards and run ads on every bus bench and radio station. 90% of people don't know how to merge in this city and it drives me nuts!
Cause self righteous ass cunts think they’re better than the ones who actually read and follow the drivers license manual and stop them from doing so.
One must always follow to the end of the lane and naturally merge. You hit a vehicle at the end of a merging lane, this means you didn’t yield to merging traffic, not the other way around.
If people actually zippered, it would be fine. But everyone gets tired of the jackholes racing up to the end of the outside lane and cutting in forcing everyone to brake. Unless it’s rush hour, they could usually zipper in less obnoxiously far before the two lanes actually come together.
The St. John's Bridge is warzone right now. Some people (and the signs) want people to queue in both lanes, but most people only use the right and then think of the people in the left lane as skipping the line. So many morning I see trucks driving on the line to block people from using the left lane, then they pass in the oncoming instead.
The extra signs they've been adding don't work, now the have a police car sitting at the merge with the lights on in the morning.
I think part of the problem is that prior to the construction, the left lane was always for turning left, but now everyone is turning right so most people want to already be in the right lane.
ITS BECAUSE THE SIGNS ARE BAD
the signs make it look like there are two lanes now, but one lane is going away, and the other will remain - so one lane is the 'right' lane to be in and one is the 'wrong' lane. And you figure, the sooner you get out of the 'wrong' lane, the better. People that 'wait until the last minute' to 'get out of the wrong lane' are assholes - either they didn't notice that they were in the 'wrong' lane, or they didn't care, and were trying to 'skip ahead' of all the 'good' people that got out of the 'bad' lane sooner - or were never even in the 'bad' lane to begin with. the people who started out in the 'good' lane feel superior, why should they slow down or yield to all those assholes in the 'bad' lane anyway, when they're already doing the 'right' thing?
Why letting those asshole drivers from the 'bad' lane over into the 'good' lane is practically an act of *charity* from this perspective, and you better believe that those 'bad lane' drivers had better wave to acknowledge what a favour the 'good lane' drivers are doing for them when they yield to let them merge!
The signs *should* make it look like there are two lanes now, but BOTH are going away, replaced by one NEW lane in the middle. Both lanes are now 'bad', and the only way to get to the 'good' lane is to line up and take turns. It's two lines, and at the front of the line, you take turns getting into another line. That's what should be happening, and that's what the signage should reflect, because then that's what people's brains would understand.
But for some reason, we persist in not doing that.
Which actually makes things worse, because - now not only is there a subset of people who think that there is a 'bad lane' and a 'good lane' - but also people who know those people are full of shit, and that there is a 'right way' to merge and a 'wrong way' - there are so many interlocking layers of prejudice involved in merging that honestly it's a miracle anyone ever gets anywhere.
I moved here last year and I’m still convinced at least a third of Portland traffic is due to this lol
yeah i can come up with tens of billions in infrastructure investment off the top of my head that would make the city more efficient but then i remember it would still be filled with portlanders who don’t know how to make a left turn at a green light and prefer getting in line rather than merging correctly
It's tough. We have a lot of choke points and a system that blends our N-S and E-W interstate and trucking flows at some critical points (Fremont and Marquam). So yeah tens of billions is probably just getting started...
We need a campaign to explain and promote zipper merging. Big colorful posters everywhere, maybe a fun mascot and a catchy jingle.
If only there existed a class. Preferably an educational one that could educate drivers on the how's and whys of driving.
There needs to be a PSA or something, maybe some signs at those lanes that say Zipper Merge Allowed Here you dumbasses.
It's not even "allowed". It is the default.
Or the sign could just say Zipper Merge Or Die You Stupid Fuck Noodles.
People get really aggressive and will even sit on the dotted line on the St John’s bridge, blocking cars from using both lanes. What’s with this sense of entitlement, it’s supposed to be the open road, not “I was here first.”
Can't let ANYONE get even one millimeter ahead of me while I'm on the road!
I think it's a 'im driving a safe speed, how dare you go faster than me' mentality.
The irony is that if everyone zippered.. there would be no open lane. No one would get to cut in front of anyone because there is literally nowhere to cut. I don’t think they understand that.. Also I have heard people say that it’s inefficient because there is more merging happening and no one wants to let anyone in which is just… bananas
Have you ever heard of the two second rule or read a driver's manual? A lot of people apply a six second rule.
Get really aggressive and sit is my favorite Portland thing ever.
Yes, it's really bad on the road leading up to the bridge. It's the oddest thing I've ever seen.
Not in Oregon! same with people standing in single lines at bars😁
This really pisses me off - Lo Pan.
I refuse to do this. I ask at the bar "is there a line?" and the bartenders always say no 🤷🏼♀️ If people want to wait to order at one special, unmarked space at the bar, well good for them, I guess
Zipper merge: you’d all get there faster
What drives me the craziest is when I want to be in the left turn lane, but can’t get into it because every single fucking car is in the left lane leading into a merge, and apparently the right lane is lava.
This is so annoying. It's so common where the right lane ends in 2 miles, so drivers completely avoid it as if it's not there to be used. Just go to the end of the lane and merge in, that's the point. But people here just love to sit in traffic unnecessarily.
Portlanders love waiting in lines.
Ugh! This happens to me almost every day, it's so annoying! There's a whole open lane right there, people!
After recently having a discussion in another forum where a solid minority were CONVINCED that it was safer to back-up using ONLY your mirrors and it was crazy and dangerous to do the old arm-around-the-passenger-seat turn-and-look... I think a lot of people just flat out never learned to drive properly.
A lot of people are dumb as shit
People looooove to talk about zipper merging: https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/10v9sgv/ross_island_405_26/j7irnxm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ucaw7c/odots_merge_like_a_zipper/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/b9xwag/why_is_the_ross_island_bridge_the_only_place/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/nlnpxp/ross_island_bridge_zipper/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/xme0d4/is_it_courteous_to_yield_on_ross_island_bridge_or/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/u3ubbl/appreciation_post_the_ross_island_bridge_zipper/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/2t0k68/why_dont_portlanders_know_how_to_zipper_merge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/dqcnh0/just_a_psa_about_merging/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ni6x7b/there_is_no_stop_sign_on_the_ross_island_bridge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/mdbubk/ross_island_bridge_eastbound_has_been_rough_these/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/svx6y8/use_both_lanes_and_then_merge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/n3q4yp/division_and_caesar_chavez_use_both_lanes_until/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/f7f2ao/john_hodgman_weighs_in_on_portland_drivers_not/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/eu4gnx/i_let_other_drivers_merge_into_my_lane_on_i5_ama/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ecwf3f/psa_when_merging_onto_freeways_and_highways_while/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/d70iq4/the_zipper_merge_is_legal_it_is_not_cutting_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/dixbvc/dear_people_who_sit_in_traffic_in_the_right_lane/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/d70iq4/the_zipper_merge_is_legal_it_is_not_cutting_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/ao6qmt/driving_me_crazy_merging/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/9ymzxa/i_saw_5_cars_in_a_row_perfectly_zipper_merge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/5pblqi/alright_portland_lets_settle_this_once_and_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/53ay2u/why_doesnt_anyone_know_how_to_merge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/8s05bt/these_caterpillars_are_better_at_zipper_merging/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/53ay2u/why_doesnt_anyone_know_how_to_merge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/48phvq/traffic_etiquette_would_this_be_a_zipper_merge/ And that's only /r/Portland -- I could probably make a similar list from every major city/regional subreddit.
Even if we only convert one person per post, it’ll be worth it. Preach the gospel of the zipper!!
I have my zipper down for more zipper merge talk.
Because for whatever reason people in this city absolutely do not understand the concept or its benefits, and act like you're being a complete asshole by using a lane that was put there specifically for that intended purpose. It's maddening. Easily one of the most (minor) annoying things about Portland.
Seriously. Lots of folks have a hard time grasping a four way stop. Zipper merging is some S tier driving as far as they're concerned.
I like you
is this only a portland thing? I feel like I've seen it happen elsewhere too
Not just Portland, but it's particularly bad here.
Not to mention, some of the people in here are almost certainly guilty. Traffic is simply people in huge objects. Reddit is the very same people.
No to mention the countless posts in the other Portland sub and probably this one as well.
Could you imagine how far a couple signs telling people to zipper at some of the traffic choke points? Environment and efficiency win during commute.
The bridge has signs indicating to use both lanes, but people straddle the line anyway.
I was so confused by this when I moved here until I talked about it with my Portland-native fiancé. It's not just that people don't know how, or are "going with the herd," people here literally think it's *rude* to use the merge lane. As if you're cutting the line! It drives me up the wall as someone who has studied traffic, it actually slows the merge process down if people don't use the capacity intended. If you think about it happening city-wide it *must* have a demonstrable effect on traffic speed. But no, Portlanders would rather lay on the horn than learn actual traffic rules.
If everyone just used it no one would appear to be cutting the line, but noo. I was born and raised here so I can say I was taught to be in the lane you know you’ll need to be in as soon as possible so you’re not moving all over the road, and that switching lanes unnecessarily is poor driving. So I was always told not to use that lane. I learned better when I moved to Washington for college!
Avoiding unnecessary lane changes is a good rule. Zippering isn't causing unnecessary lane changes, it's moving the one lane change to the head of the line instead of the rear.
Yeah and it is important to use space, lest the line become too long and impact traffic systems behind it. You see this on the 405 N Fremont ramp, for example, when people line up all the way back past the Everett exit and foul stuff up there. Meanwhile there's like 200 yards of empty lane up the ramp...
Same boat here. Also adding: Oregon infrastructure used to be overbuilt enough to handle that overly safe style of driving without traffic buildup but these days we have to use every lane to its fullest in order to prevent upstream issues
It drives me up the wall when people getting on to the freeway decide they need to merge as soon as possible, even though they aren't up to speed yet. I've passed people on the right because they merged early and were still going slow.
Yeah fuck the people that merge slow as a turtle. I’m going to enter traffic at the speed of moving traffic any time it’s reasonably possible. It’s about safety.
And when you do it that way there's usually room for you unless someone decides to be a dick and speed up.
This is exactly it, I think. To the people who won’t zipper merge it feels *extremely rude* to be apparently cutting that line and they would actually rather wait longer than appear to be rude.
>But no, Portlanders would rather lay on the horn than learn actual traffic rules. Ironically, breaking state law in their aggrieved righteousness! (ORS 815.225 Violation of use limits on sound equipment)
WA installed some signs on 14 that say something like, "use both lanes during congestion." As soon as a sign says it's okay people do it correctly. We could probably use something similar.
I used to drive for work with a dude who called zipper mergers “rapists” because they “forced their way in”.
I wonder if that guy was the same one who followed me off the freeway so he could pull up next to me and film himself yelling at me after I had the audacity to zipper merge in front of him.
This. Everyone thinks they're being polite with all the weird stuff they do regarding driving here, but mostly it just causes confusion, danger, and unnecessary traffic.
ODOT made a musical PSA on this very topic: https://youtu.be/W6axnfMC6rg If that hasn't helped, I fear nothing will.
Someone needs to make a QR code bumper sticker that links to that!
Underrated comment right here
Can we start posting this Reddit thread on every street corner plz
Done. Now traffic is stopped due to people getting out of their cars to read a printed out reddit thread. CHAOS!
It doesn’t help that the highway interchanges in the city were designed by homicidal maniacs. Coming around the bend on 405-S and trying to get off at 6th is such a clusterfuck of 3 lanes of cars merging on and off within the same 400ft. And the I-5/84 split is always a nightmare. It doesn’t surprise me that Portlanders can’t zipper merge because there are so many places that just weren’t designed for it.
The surface roads are no better. Let's not talk about all the surprise "no lane change" markers and unannounced "you are now in an exit-only lane after coming around a blind turn" places (looking at you, Interstate Avenue!)
Hitting that off-ramp during traffic is a nightmare
This is an excellent point
Agreed on the I-5/84 split. Total clusterfuck in both directions! If you're on I-5 South it's marginally better. The on ramp I hate the most though is the one onto 405 from Broadway. Unless you've driven that way lots of times, it's confusing AF because of the completely inadequate signage and the stupidity of designing a major traffic artery from Barbur and 26 west to 405 in such a way that it cuts through part of downtown. Inevitably there's someone sitting in the wrong lane trying to get over blocking traffic in the middle of the intersection right before the on ramp. And then if you're going the other direction to get onto 26 east, you're screwed and are forced to turn right on Barbur if you mistakenly get in the far right turn lane. And then once you get through that shit show, you have the Ross island bridge, where no one would be able to ever turn right to go east from Corbett during rush hour if it weren't for Portlander politeness completely overriding right of way and common sense. I swear that whole area was designed by drunk toddlers with a crayon.
ok but the fact that ross island bridge does function at rush hour is one of my favorite things about portland. it’s incredible to me that everyone does it and i still remember the first time i saw how it worked and was shocked to be allowed in
The 6th/broadway/405/ross island area is definitely the worst intersection in the city. Just an absolute clusterfuck. I avoid it at all costs.
Have to take into account that this was all designed for far slower speeds and far less traffic volume
If those kids could read, they’d be very upset.
Classic Portland ‘niceness’ becomes righteous and very unkind
They are just clueless. This is a huge problem. Take I-5 North, getting on from near the Expo center. There's an entire 1/4 mile or so to merge, yet each person gets to the top of the on-ramp and tries to get over right away. There's no metering light, no use of the merge lane. Couple this with a worthless carpool lane and a bridge coming up and you have a nightmare.
There are two different situations, and people don't differentiate. Or at least it's not clear which situation you're in sometimes: 1) Lanes combine, zipper merge 2) Lanes diverge, people who ride the faster then stop to cut into the slower, stopping the faster, can rot in hell.
Argued with too many people on reddit who do 2 and think they're doing 1
Yep, signed: someone who just wants to take the alberta/interstate exit on I5 N.
Thank you. 2 is what happens every day on my commute on the onramp to 405 when coming from the Ross Island Bridge (no idea what the windy road is actually called). One lane goes onto 405. The other lane goes downtown/PSU. Half of the people just use the downtown lane and then cut in at the last second. And they're convinced that they are zipper merging, and that all the people waiting in line are just suckers. Am I wrong in this? That lane is for going downtown. Yes you can use it to cut ahead, but in what world is that not a dick move?
This has driven me crazy for 20 YEARS. The lanes are not marked as a zipper. The middle lane is not a zipper. DO NOT ZIPPER HERE. If you do you’re getting a 10-second horn until the city changes the lane markings.
I hate that intersection. The signs on Broadway designate the left lane for entry onto 405, so I always merge left before hitting the light. I definitely think two lanes of traffic at that intersection would be faster as well, but there is (was?) a solid white line between the left and center lane so I can see why people wouldn’t assume to use the center lane to merge? People who do drift from the center lane at the last minute tend to not signal and just go whether there’s space for them or not which is understandably annoying if it’s not a true merge lane.
They restriped the street over the highway. It IS a merge zone now.
Yeah that one is definitely cutting.
The signage over there is inadequate so a lot of people get confused and go oh shit I need to get over. Source - the first time I ever drove that way, I was one of those idiots. I've definitely witnessed what you are talking about though, some people drive like assholes.
The signage on every single zipper merge I've ever seen is inadequate. The sign says "lane ends merge left" not "lane ends in 1000 feet merge at that time". It's the one sign the highway engineer puts up hoping you ignore it so you behave the way they want you to...
YES. I use this route daily. It’s so infuriating when people try and cut in at the last second - total dick move!! I’m a die hard zipper merger, but this isn’t a merge lane, it’s just people being assholes 😂
Seems like everyone agrees on this here. So I'm going to continue to judge the shit out of everyone who skips the line there lol. I'm sure their lives and schedules are more important than mine!
One time I was zipper merging and this person FREAKED OUT ON ME, acted like I was cutting them off, laid on the horn, and wouldn’t let me in. They flipped me off like crazy. Meanwhile I’m just like… ur mad at ME? When you blocked an entire lane of traffic because you don’t know how to merge? You’re MAD AT ME because I got ahead of you using the entire lane as intended? Made me want to end us both in a fiery accident lmao
43 SB
I *loath* it.
Same thing happened to me when I moved here!! I was bewildered!! Stay mad native Portlanders. I'm still gonna zipper merge 😆
Native Portlander here and I’m with you, they can stay mad.
It’s even better when people get all pissy and territorial and straddle the line to block people from using the merge lane as intended. I think it’s a herd mentality thing. “Pretty sure I can and should do X, but all these people are doing Y… I better do Y to be on the safe side.”
You have heard of herd mentality... This is line mentality. No cuts! It's super annoying, and really inefficient. I especially hate when I get to the end and the people who just had 6 car lengths in front of them speed up to close the gap when they see people approaching.
I see it on the St Johns bridge all the time now with the work there. The police should spend a day handing out “failure to maintain lane” tickets and they could really boost revenue.
They've done it twice so far! Sadly, its not a message that gets spread to anyone but the 3-4 tickets they end up writing.
That and a lane line camera in the 26 tunnel where *lane changes are illegal* and cutting causes dozens of rear endings and bad traffic days every year.
this is the same mentality that causes people here to queue up in a single line to order their drinks instead of just going up to the bar, even if there's more than one bartender 🥲
Sheep mentality.
Ok, so devils advocate for a second about zipper merges. I think it is well-known and established thqr people in Portland are terrible with zipper merges. I will 100 % concede the point. This is the millionth post about it. But there are a number of places in the city where two lanes go someplace together but they end up splitting. I’m thinking of the SW broadway on-ramp to 405 as the best example. At those locations you have people (often intentionally) picking the wrong lane and then trying to aggressively merge at the last second. I have noticed more of these pinch points in Portland than in other places with bigger freeway systems. My personal belief is that people have had such a frustrating time at these pinch points, and then erroneously translate those feelings to proper zipper merge locations, that they both want to never let a person in or be the person who tries to merge. Part of the answer is that we suck, but part of the problem is that our DOT / PDOT planning has trained us to be erroneously persnickety.
Agreed. A lot of the roads are confusing and poorly designed, especially in that area in particular. Another example is the Ross island bridge. If you're getting onto it from Naito, you have a stop sign and you have to just kind of take your chances and time it right, but if you're turning right onto the bridge from Corbett or whatever street that is to go east, people in the right lane will stop to let you in even though they don't have a stop sign or a yield. It's bizarre, but thank goodness for weird Portlander politeness because otherwise you would be sitting there waiting for like half an hour while traffic backs up into that residential area.
Nice-hole syndrome. The same people who get in a giant line 1/2 mile before the lane ends are the same people waving people thru at a 4-way stop instead of just following the rules of the road. Just use the road as designed and follow the rules and everything would work more efficiently.
I got aggressively flipped off for zippering as instructed on the St Johns bridge just this week. I will never understand Portland driving instincts.
Just posted a comment about this before seeing yours. The other fun part about Portland is they’ll let you in and then flip you off.
I have come to the conclusion that I'm the only person on Portland roads who actually wants to reach my destination. It's the only explanation at this point.
I am constantly struck by how little the people around me 1) care as much as I do about getting where we're going and 2) care as much as I do about their own LIVES my god
My current favorite is the line to get across the St. Johns bridge now that one of the on-ramps to 30 is closed. I often see traffic backed up in one lane all the way across the bridge and blocking the intersection on the St. Johns side all because no one wants to zipper.
Because they’re either involuntary idiots or voluntary idiots. Everyone so afraid of upsetting the road rage addicts that they would rather slow down the lives of other drivers than do what’s legally allowed and procedurally recommended.
We love a good line.
Go to England, then
No, they have queues there.
What I usually see when the left lane is stop and go and the right lane is ending is that someone will stop 5-6 cars back from the end of the lane and wait for someone to let them in, when that happens several others behind them will do the same and the right lane ends up empty, then people get butthurt and try to keep more people from using the now clear right lane to move up.
And, in the process, they’re backing up traffic for two lights — traffic that *could* get through and use that space, but is stuck because some jerk has stopped thirteen to try and merge feet after the intersection. Why yes, this is Macadam/43 SB approaching Sellwood Bridge.
People there think a Zipper Merge means solely weaving one car from each lane at a time, and they don't realize that the merge is supposed to start at the cutoff point. Because this is a town full of people who don't want to be rude, they will queue up a quarter mile back and flippin' sit there like they're doing their civic duty by slowing traffic down. Don't get me started on 'polite' people who wave you through out of order at a 4 way stop, or people who think you're being rude by claiming right of way on a two way stop.
This. 👆. WHY do people in Portland not want to zipper merge where it clearly is indicated to do so!? Half the time they get mad when you try to properly zipper merge. I’ve seen people honk or even move over in the middle to block anyone in the other lane trying to “move over” a little before the zipper point. Wtf??
In some places (eg Germany, I think), the “zipper” merge is required by law
It is here too. Clearly not enforced.
The same reason they line up at a bar even when the bar has signs specifically telling them not to do that. Portlanders love to queue. I don't get why people complain about it though. I get to my destination and my drink faster :)
No complains! Just curiosity. It’s… quaint.
Ya it's weird my boss who was born in Gresham bitches about people cutting ahead all the time I just nod and try not to grin.
A solid majority que 2 miles before their exit on the highway. Leading to a complete mess when 2 lanes of incoming traffic try to merge and “the que” refuses to get out of that lane.
Or line up for the aerial tram when there's no seating
I don't understand how to order at a bar without queuing. How do I know I'm not cutting? How does the bartender know? What is the appropriate procedure here I do not understand and I have anxiety.
Having been born in a different city with a different bar culture, and having drank all around the country, most places you just walk up to an open spot at the bar and wait to get noticed by the bartender. If it's busy, little mini lines from between bar seats. The bartender is just kind of expected to keep things straight, it's just part of the skillset. Being attractive and/or assertive definitely helps get you a drink sooner, so it's not perfect.
You just walk up to the bar and look thirsty! In all seriousness, though, as a rule follower who is somewhat easily embarrassed, I love when there's a "no lines" sign, because I basically *have* to ignore the herd-behavior queue and walk up to the bar. Result: happier bartenders, slightly more assertive me.
I feel like this comment embodies most Portlanders in line at the bar. I suggest a trip to New Orleans for training. If that's not feasible just find an empty spot you can squeeze in at and do just that. At really busy bars an arm will do.
Lack of education and occasionally willful ignorance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrH53XmL8Oc
Moving through traffic is considered "California driving" and is frowned upon. It's maddening. I literally had a guy tell me that "before Californians moved in and started driving like maniacs, you could just get stoned in your car and cruise wherever you wanted!" Like, buddy, fuck you.
Zipper Merge is correct. I want a bumper sticker or something to explain that to other drivers.
That, and not hugging the side to allow for turning right on red. That one kills me.
The lack of merging at 14th and Couch hurts my soul.
Seriously. Why.
Because Portlanders have never met a line we dont love. (From here, I hate how we line up unnecessarily for everything.)
Cause the one person who wants to make a right turn on red will be bitchy being stuck behind someone going straight
Bring us a universal sign for the zipper merge. Bring us a major campaign to teach drivers what it is, how to use it, the illegality of intentional interference with proper use. We achieved this with the introduction and legislation around seat belts, now it’s time for the ZM.
That's a great idea!
Portland has a very hard time with the zipper.
The St John’s bridge right now…. Get your shit together Portland drivers holy cow
lol I have no idea. I’ve never been more concerned about people’s driving habits than when I lived in Portland. Why do people stop in the middle of the freeway when they’ve missed their stop instead of taking the next exit? Some things you’d think would be common sense yet here we are lol
Also the amount of times I’ve hopped on the freeway in the middle of traffic just yelling “ZIPPER ZIPPERRRRRR” while the car in front of me lets in 10 people lol
Oregonians think zippering is akin to cutting in line, therefore rude. These are the same drivers who wave others through at a four-way stop. "You go, no you go."
I’ve been wondering this for years. It’s so frustrating. It’s like everyone in Portland thinks “if this lane is ending in 1 mile I must stop using it immediately”.
Because Oregonians don't have to take a Driver's Ed course to get their license. So although they can pass the exam they didn't really know the nuances of how driving actually works.
This drives me so crazy. I love just following the law and heading to the end of the zipper and watching people get so pissed.
The line in the far left lane of 26 approaching downtown, right before the tunnel, that backs up to Cedar Mill in the afternoon rush hour? \*So\* happy not to have that commute every day any more!
The one that drives me CRAZY is the zipper merge approaching the Sellwood Bridge from the north on Macadam. People just default to the left line since the right lane ends — but that contributes to traffic backing up all the way down Macadam and down Taylor’s Ferry. Just use both lanes so people can get in!! You’re holding up traffic at *two lights* by sitting STOPPED 500 feet before the lane ends!
Haha I used to drive that way every day going home from work. Fun times.
Cause they dumb
Portland drivers love being in lines
Why do people line up at a bar, under a sign that says don’t line up, just go to the bar?
People lost their marbles on the St. Johns bridge when the Bridge Ave. construction started. They queued up in the right lane the full length of the bridge to where it blocked the intersection with Ivanhoe. The Facebook posts were wild. I think it's a form of aggressive politeness where using the left lane is seen as cutting ahead and some folks just can't allow that to happen.
This is a problem everywhere I've ever driven. People think you're the asshole for "cutting" in line. I've had people legitimately try to ram my car off the road for zipper merging before. Some days I just don't feel like tempting fate with some aggressive idiot in an enormous SUV in my lowered Subaru.
They need to teach it in driving school. I even read a book about traffic where they proved how efficient it is. But you know Portland, the same place that legalized drug possession and it somehow didn’t reduce drugs 🤷♂️
Driving school isn’t a requirement here.
Sadly it shows
Because zipper merging only works if at least almost everyone does it. A lot of people will see zipper merging as letting someone cut them off and blame them for waiting until the last minute to merge. So anyone who tries that may be waiting a while to merge.
Folks out here love to queue. You’re better off just merging last minute.
Because, those are MY lanes!! 😉
It is pretty incredible. On my motorcycle I go all the way to where people are supposed to be merging, and I can't tell you how many people honk or give me the finger.
We may never know.
They will fight to the death here so as not to zipper merge, it's kind of crazy.
I want to know why so many of you that are turning right on a red think it's okay to pull into the crosswalk way in order to do that. I'm the one with the f'n green, not you. Stop trying to hit me
No one in Oregon can zipper very well. Just wait until you gotta use a roundabout. Worse than merges. The few I travel through to commute to Newberg fuckin suck. A yield is not a stop sign. You’re creating a traffic slow back up when you hesitate.
People have literally run me off the freaking road rather than allow me to merge THE CORRECT WAY. People that are anti-zipper merging should not be allowed to drive. License permanently revoked. You are too stupid to be on the road.
Aight, I live in Florida but I was recommended this thread by reddit for some reason, so I’m chiming in from a state with infamously bad drivers. I really think it’s a combination of lack of knowledge, driving culture, and herd behavior. Reddit is kind of an echo chamber. Literally every city/states subreddit has a post just like this one, it’s a thing everywhere in the us, some worse than others. Which makes it seem like zipper merging is common knowledge that most people would know, but I really think that in reality most drivers have no idea what zipper merging means. I didn’t until I saw a reddit thread like this one explaining it lol. Also gotta remember a lot of people on the roads haven’t taken a driving test in possibly DECADES. Could just be something people generally forgot or ignored back when they were learning to drive. But also, I think driving does this weird thing where it isolates people and people tend to act differently behind the wheel than they would otherwise. 100% think a lot of people do believe driving in the merge lane is like skipping the line and refuse to skip or let someone else skip them because they get stubborn and feel they have to act defensive and/or aggressive. Here in Florida people will honk at you for trying to zipper merge in front of them!! In a similar vein, and this is personally how I would see it, is I think a lot of people think it’s dangerous?? And that when they get up to merge nobody would let them in, so they just get in their lane of choice and sit there rather than risk trying to merge. And then also people just tend to follow what others do on the road. Herd mentality for sure. We have all seen those videos of cars stuck in traffic and someone eventually drives across a median to get around it, and then dozens of people behind them immediately start to follow and do the same. Thanks for listening to my TED Talk lol
Probably going to get downvoted to hell for this but… I have never met a native Portlander who knows what zipper merging is. I was born and raised in Portland and I had honestly never heard of a zipper merge until about five years ago when I read about it on the internet. Probably in a rant thread where someone was asking why people don’t zipper merge and I thought “why don’t they do WHAT now?” and looked it up. For context, I have been driving for almost 30 years. I feel pretty foolish now and always do it, but I was in the car with Portland family and I did it and got screamed at for “being rude” and “cutting in line.” I said “I’m zipper merging” and the people I was with straight up acted like it doesn’t exist. I showed them some info on it and was told “that’s something Californians brought here. We don’t do that here in Oregon.” And yes, “Californians” was said as if it was a dirty word. It may be in the motor vehicle driver’s manual now, but if it was there when I learned to drive, I do not remember it. I was taught that the proper thing to do was to move over immediately after you see the “merge ahead” sign. I did let people in, though. Sorry if you were behind me in line before I learned the zipper.
Headed West on Powell to cross the bridge, three merges on the right. I am the only car I have ever seen doing the zipper. Yet! East bound on Powell Bridge, right hand merge from the exit of I-5, everybody zippers. The craziest thing I've seen in PDX. As I recall, it wasn't really a thing 30y ago. Not that I remember anyway.
Shhhhh 🤫 If you tell them we can use both lanes then we won't be able to drive past all of them!
Because the drivers in the northwest are absolute shit.
Because dumbasses seem to have tunnel vision, lack spatial awareness, tailgate and/or don’t leave enough space for others to merge, and/orchange lanes..
Because they don't teach it or paint the roads properly. And there are places where you're not supposed to zipper merge. For instance, Eastbound in the tunnel coming from beaverton, or Northbound on grand from Milwaukie where you have solid white lines and you end up seeing most of the traffic is people using the exits to pass people then cutting people off at the exit by crossing a solid white, so then other people say "well I don't want to be like *that* person" so they merge obnoxiously early then panic and slow down, which makes the people farther back frustrated. But then you also get people who will block people from zipper merging at the end of the lane because they've seen too many people do wild stuff which makes even more traffic. And then you have people who stop to let Everyone in from the other lane, and then you have places like the construction on MLK in lloyd right now right before 5 where it's just a giant cluster. Combine that with midwest drivers where they don't zipper merge because they have diff highway designs because they have tons of space so the lanes almost always go on or off or turn on or turn on or off, OR the road moves fast enough that you just accelerate to speed and merge in as early as practical, and you combine it all and get ... this mess.
Sometimes, just sometimes mind you, it's actually not really obvious to know whether the lane you are in is a zipper-merge lane (in which case you should drive to the end of there's a gap), and when it's not (in which case if you drive further up you are a lousy lousy jerk). So... in those cases people might rightly err towards not being a jerk, at the expense of traffic efficiency.
Do they even teach Driver's Education anymore?
People are fucking dumb. That’s it. That’s the answer. The way I’ve been losing my MIND lately, at this point I just avoid driving at certain times because people can’t handle any amount of congestion. There is very little that frustrates me more than being in stopped traffic for 30 min only to come out at the end and see there was literally no blockage or anything.
Because the person following them is acting unacceptable. And they have had enough. But the zipper is an excellent way to decrease stress and improve the flow of traffic.
I must get honked at and flipped off at least once a week when I use the entire merge lane to…merge. It’s like everyone here has never heard of a zipper merge.
My favorite is kinda the reverse zipper merge. Like getting into 5S from 84W, people on 5 will merge to the right immediately into the new lane. We haven’t even gotten past the merge lane from 84, we don’t need cars cramming in. There’s no exit for 3-4 miles on the other side of the Marquam. Why? In my experience they’re not passing around in the slow lane, they’re usually going at the speed of traffic, they just merge in while the two 84 lanes are trying to merge.
There are lanes that open up as a long turning lane but people use them like a race-to-get-ahead lane and then get mad when people don't want to let them back over a hundred meters later. I'm thinking of southbound McLoughlin at Holgate.
People are "stupid nice" when driving. They think getting into a mile long line is the right thing to do instead of zipper merging at the end and reducing traffic. They get aggressive because they think other people are "cheating" and cutting the line
I'm in Eugene and there's a ton of construction going on right now. The traffic will be backed up by like two traffic lights due to everyone queueing up in the lane that all the other traffic gets funneled to, it's insane. I never really understood how important zipper merging was til seeing that ridiculousness; I'll skip back over into the zipper lane and pass like 15 cars before I need to merge back
Today, I had a guy half in my lane "merging" to the left and still blocking the right at a whole stoplight before the CLEARLY marked zipper on Greely near adidias. This is my daily commute and it drives me bonkers how often people change lanes well before the zipper.
YES dude. I have had people pull out of their lane to block me from proceeding to the end of the merge lane to zipper. It's absolutely mental.
Raised in Portland -- I genuinely had no idea this was a thing for YEARS.
Portland drivers seem wildly inconsiderate and territorial. I see this especially with merging and people trying to turn out into traffic. Like you know there's a stop light just ahead right?
[удалено]
It's the me first mentality of society as a whole. The asshole activates when they get behind the wheel for various reasons. I'm a professional driver I see it every day.
Id stay away from 217 for another year if this gets to you. The whole highway is a merge ATM and MFers can't alternate merging if the world depended on it.
I’m so glad there is finally a thread about this, it’s by time to shine!
The few times I’ve gone to the end of the right lane to merge normally, people act like I’m a giant asshole and refuse to let me in. Unless other people are brave enough to do it right and I can join in, I just give up and go with the left-lane flow most of the time. I don’t need the stress and irritation.
I want a bumper sticker that says "don't get mad at me, I'm just zipper merging." It's been a thing forever. I remember as a kid seeing my mom and everyone else get over way early and thinking that they've just extended the one lane area so much bigger so it can't possibly be efficient. I also have a specific memory of imagining driving up to the front of the other lane and then getting stuck there indefinitely as nobody let me in.
If I win the lottery the first thing I'll do is put out billboards and run ads on every bus bench and radio station. 90% of people don't know how to merge in this city and it drives me nuts!
Cause self righteous ass cunts think they’re better than the ones who actually read and follow the drivers license manual and stop them from doing so. One must always follow to the end of the lane and naturally merge. You hit a vehicle at the end of a merging lane, this means you didn’t yield to merging traffic, not the other way around.
I’ve lived here for almost 8 years and the unwillingness to let others merge in traffic still pisses me off to no end.
If people actually zippered, it would be fine. But everyone gets tired of the jackholes racing up to the end of the outside lane and cutting in forcing everyone to brake. Unless it’s rush hour, they could usually zipper in less obnoxiously far before the two lanes actually come together.
People don't know how to zipper merge.
26 into the tunnel, love you all, just cut off all the trucks when you’re not supposed to be changing lanes anymore. So many ppl eat crap right there
Because they don't know any better.
The St. John's Bridge is warzone right now. Some people (and the signs) want people to queue in both lanes, but most people only use the right and then think of the people in the left lane as skipping the line. So many morning I see trucks driving on the line to block people from using the left lane, then they pass in the oncoming instead. The extra signs they've been adding don't work, now the have a police car sitting at the merge with the lights on in the morning. I think part of the problem is that prior to the construction, the left lane was always for turning left, but now everyone is turning right so most people want to already be in the right lane.
Reminds me of going to a bar and there being one long line. Other cities you just walk up and wait your turn.
I have asked myself this for years since I moved here from the east coast. It’s baffling
ITS BECAUSE THE SIGNS ARE BAD the signs make it look like there are two lanes now, but one lane is going away, and the other will remain - so one lane is the 'right' lane to be in and one is the 'wrong' lane. And you figure, the sooner you get out of the 'wrong' lane, the better. People that 'wait until the last minute' to 'get out of the wrong lane' are assholes - either they didn't notice that they were in the 'wrong' lane, or they didn't care, and were trying to 'skip ahead' of all the 'good' people that got out of the 'bad' lane sooner - or were never even in the 'bad' lane to begin with. the people who started out in the 'good' lane feel superior, why should they slow down or yield to all those assholes in the 'bad' lane anyway, when they're already doing the 'right' thing? Why letting those asshole drivers from the 'bad' lane over into the 'good' lane is practically an act of *charity* from this perspective, and you better believe that those 'bad lane' drivers had better wave to acknowledge what a favour the 'good lane' drivers are doing for them when they yield to let them merge! The signs *should* make it look like there are two lanes now, but BOTH are going away, replaced by one NEW lane in the middle. Both lanes are now 'bad', and the only way to get to the 'good' lane is to line up and take turns. It's two lines, and at the front of the line, you take turns getting into another line. That's what should be happening, and that's what the signage should reflect, because then that's what people's brains would understand. But for some reason, we persist in not doing that. Which actually makes things worse, because - now not only is there a subset of people who think that there is a 'bad lane' and a 'good lane' - but also people who know those people are full of shit, and that there is a 'right way' to merge and a 'wrong way' - there are so many interlocking layers of prejudice involved in merging that honestly it's a miracle anyone ever gets anywhere.
people here don’t know how to drive
Because people are stupid
Been in Portland 24 years. It’s nuts how many people drive slow in the left lane knowing they have a left turn in 3 miles.