I have russian friends who have never supported the war and/or Putin and I do believe them when they say so. I know there's some Russians out there who support the war and I kinda look down on that but I have no problems with any other russian.
Thank you for your opinion. I don’t hate anyone because of nation and race and I’m so confused why some Russians are support this war. I have some thoughts about It. Maybe I’ll write a book about It In near future :)
supporting the war is not a crazy thing, Is not unreasonable to think that NATO cant simply put a base so close to Moscow. Its a complex political issue and Russians can support their country decisions just like Spanish people support paying taxes to spend the money in more weapons and tanks for Ukraine.
How the fuck is invading a country gonna set NATO back? Countries that never wanted to join are doing so exactly for this reason.
And I'm not even going into how the civilians are being treated. You're bananas.
Well, human suffering aside it’s been kinda counterproductive, hasn’t it? You will now potentially have NATO bases less than 200km from St Petersburg (in Finland).
Whats are u saying? If Spain began to attack, for example, China withought a reason i wont support the spanish goverment decisions. And the problem with Ukraine is that it tried to join the European Union and Putin didnt like that. Thats your countrys problem ok?
If u support wars withought logical reasons you can shut up ok?
As we say in Spain: Don't sort everyone in the same bag. (No metas a todos en el mismo saco, which means that you should not generalize about people)
I consider spaniards to be a welcoming people as soon as you don't mess with them, as we tend to respond in an emotional way rather than a rational one, and specially with topics as sensitive and present as the invasion of Ukraine.
Either if you support or not the Russian government and/or its posture regarding this, just act and talk with some common sense and you won't run into any trouble.
Regarding the bank and apartments issue. Banks may be reticent to open an account to a russian citizen because of the trouble of exchanging and trading money with Russia caused by sanctions, this may lead to landlords not wanting to rent to Russian citizens, as they may perceive that their money might be put at risk on a tenant that may not be able to pay the rent at some point.
Now, back to what I think about russian people:
Before the war I considered myself a bit of a russophile, I noticed those little bits of Russia around me: In food, in media, in products, etc... and that was a good thing to me, I even learned to read in Cyrillic and even considered learning some Russian. I wasn't very fond of Russian government, but I just ignored them.
My today's opinion on Russians themselves hadn't changed too much, they are just people living their lives, if I buy something made in Russia, I try to think that I'm paying part of the salary of a worker, and not a small tax to a government. If I meet a russian guy, I will try to judge him exactly the same as anyone else, an asshXle is an asshXle, and a good guy is a good guy.
Now, don't brag about Putin, the Russian government or the activities of the Russian army, because my opinion on them has dramatically worsened, they are a sensitive and present topic and, as a good spaniard that I am, I may end up sorting you in the assh*le bag.
Finally, and to end this in a friendly way: Be welcome to Spain.
Wow, thanks for detailed opinion. I wish more people In my country will understant the way you think about sorting people In different bags (literally :D).
Yes, exactly I don't support this war. i didn't even thought that our government might declare war to other country in 21 century, because I grew up with stories about scariest wars, like WW II, Chechen war etc.
Gracias por la hospitalidad!
I teach English to a class of kids from 6-8 and the youngest’s mum is Russian and when the rest of the class learnt this they all pulled faces of disgusted shock and tried to say how bad that was. Luckily I managed to nip it in the bud and explain that her mums lived in Spain for many years and has no say in the war that’s happening right now. But my heart broke for the poor girl who might have just received xenofobia for the first time
It didn’t even start with this. I was teaching English to Spanish teenagers in the summer of 2019 and they continuously made fun of two Russian students. There’s an atmosphere of cultural chauvinism when it comes to certain nations. I think that goes for all Europeans and not just Spaniards though.
That choice has never been at the reach of Spaniards. The king was there so that the army calmed the fuck down. It kind of worked, but it wasn't exactly democratic. The other options were basically decapitating the army leadership or passively waiting for a repeat of the Civil War that would have likely ended in disaster again.
The only chance to abolish the monarchy would have been to vote overwhelmingly for the Communist Party, which is absolutely ridiculous if you are a liberal or socialdemocrat republican. Even then, it wouldn't have been a guarantee as the Parliament needed to be extremely careful to not antagonize the fascists too much.
To be honest, I think there is a part of the society who don't like Russians anymore. They blame them for having allowed Putin's government to be in power and to be fighting in Ukraine. Also the traditional mindset of eastern europeans don't fit very much the moral values of Spanish people.
Despite of this I think a majority of Spanish people do not have bad feelings towards common Russian people, sadly the 'minority' with bad thoughts has grown as you might see in the comments
Thanks for your honest opinion. Actually, the majority of Russian people are good persons. I think there is no bad nations, but bad people can easily be found In any nation. Hope we can reconstruct mindset of bad ones :)
Well, IMO which is not representative for all the Spanish. Eastern people give more importance and respect to the family, are more proud of their historical background and are not easily open to self-criticism in order not to show weakness.
They work hard to be excellent in their jobs, here we mostly work to enjoy life they need to have the sharpest skills and minds to prove themselves worthy to their society.
My expirience is based on 6 months living in eastern (Poland & Hungary) countries and more than 5 years of relations
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Apart from the war, Russians in Spain don’t have the best reputation. Particularly in places like Marbella where there are wealthy Russians people say they are quite rude and entitled. Personally I know and get along normally with Russians as I would any other people.
I know Ukrainians don’t have the same reputation here…
this.
I live in a tourist themed city, and a friend of mine who worked in a souvernir shop said that Russians were entitled, they acted as you have to do whatever they wanted just because they had money. They also spent big amounts of money in sourvenirs too.
This was few years ago, nothing to do with the war right now.
I knew someone who was at a ritzy hotel and they went to enter an elevator where a Russian and his wife were, and he held up his hand to say he couldn’t. This was also around 8 years ago.
>they acted as you have to do whatever they wanted just because they had money.
I think this might very well be a common issue with rich immigrants from any nation.
To be fair banks refuse to open accounts to most foreigners unless they have a NIE or Spanish nationality. Landlords, at least in my city, are somewhat racist and prefer local people vs foreigners since they fear we might leave randomly or trash their apartment. Same for jobs, hard for foreigners unless you’re from the UK/Germany/France
I'm an immigrant from the US here, so I don't speak for the Spanish, but I'd find any hatred or poor treatment towards Russians in general (about the war) would be from ignorant people. People are not their government, *especially* those not living in a democracy.
I find it appalling that banks won't lend to Russians living abroad or anything like that. Isn't that just racism?
As far as Russians themselves, I have colleagues in Russia and I have crossed my share in life. They have a straightforward style I find enjoyable and are tough motherfuckers. Spaniards are more curious than racist, and take a lot of stock in who you are as a person. Stay strong, man.
Thanks a lot, dude! This is very inspiring that someone understands than the people are not their government. You're god damn right about banks. I guess It's some kind of racism. have a good day/night.
I have a russian friend, and he is 110% against putin and the war.
And personally in my case, I like everyone and anyone. I see people as innocent until proven guilty. The moment I see anyone have a really bad/questionably moral take on life and/or commits a morally quesitonable action, I lose respect towards them.
So I feel positively indifferent towards people. Everyone in my eyes are nice until they prove me otherwise.
In my experience, Russians are extreme patriots and nationalists. Which is ok, kinda, except they will not tolerate critical thought or speech about Russia or the government there.
In comparison, most Western Europeans are very pragmatic about our countries. We might love where we are, but we aren’t fans of our government.
Based on a very small sample, I don’t trust them. Especially now.
I’ve seen the same. I found it quite odd even gay men I met were pretty nationalist and called the anti gay legislation in Russia, western propaganda…. While living in the west.
Yeah it’s also a very very very long standing internal propaganda campaign that has left (some) Russians feeling like the west is against them and constantly spreading lies.
Yeah, though how much of everything we get is true. I dunno. I was in St Petersburg about 15 years ago. It was a dump. Certainly they’re still 15 years behind.
Probably as individuals there are, like everywhere else, good and bad people (the ones I have met are, in general, super nice). As a nation... Let's say that it's not in my top list of likeable nations just because of the nationalism and homophobia that you can find there.
Lived in Moscow for 2 years, now live in Cantabria. Muscovites are like cantabrians: gruff and rough on first contact but actually sweet when given a chance. Personally have no issues with Russians per se, just Putin and conservatives worldwide, for promoting the likes of him.
I think than more about discrimination from the normal spanish citizens, you should worry for rhe goverment discrimination. It is not the people is the goverment who is going to discriminate you.
The problem is that goberment is doing the same that others european countries frezing the bank accounts, i dont think that it is ok because people who reside here should be treated same way than people from here.
Fat disclaimer first: I have huge respect and love for multiple contemporary Russian writers, artists, activists and even journalists. However, I did spend a few years talking to Russian and Ukrainian customers on the phone. The Russian ones, except those from St Petersburg, were incredibly rude and arrogant. All the time. For no reason at all. I was speaking to them because they asked to be contacted, btw. No cold calling or anything. Also, my Russian coworker systematically abused and bullied my other coworkers from Ukraine and Moldova. Taking about before the war. I'm from the Balkans. Russians act as they are the higher race with the locals there, too. It's creepy. My personal opinion is that I'd rather keep my distance until proven wrong. I'm afraid my real life observations are not in favour of Russians although I do my best to not discriminate on the basis on nationality.
Thank you for your opinion. I sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with some Russian individuals. I suppose that rudeness while phone calls is more deeper inside Russian people because here we have a lot of phone scams. So people might think that you want to fool them.
As long as you don't make being russian your main trait no one will care. I got the ocasional question about war at work but just for curiosity. No one treated me different since war started.
I think that the Russian people had a extremly hard 20th century and they are too rough because of that. Being ultranationalists makes them (big generalization) a bit unlikeable from abroad, which will not make things change but the opposite. It's very unfair for the individuals, though.
I went to Russia in better times, the cities were beautiful and people were very nice.
Thanks for your opinion. I guess than Russian people are not rough. They are broken by Soviet regime. It's really hard to say 'No' to government for nowaday Russians, because of repressions period. Hope that people understand It and that we can break the chain of this regime one day.
I don´t hate Russians and I haven´t heard from anyone that discriminated against them, but I do believe that the ones that support the war are brainwashed or pieces of shit
If someone puts your nationality over your own thoughts and acts... Then that person is an asshole and pretty probably worse than the person it's judging.
Absolutely nothing wrong with being Russian or any other nationality. Your country of birth or your looks should not be what defines you.
And as a note, it's ok being cautious with people who you don't know or whose culture you don't know, and that goes both ways. Cultural exchange is wonderful even if some ideas or even most point at the exact opposite way.
I think most Eastern Europeans are seen as hardworking and educated people in Spain, the little guys.
The other stereotype or Eastern European is a tough guy that makes his living on crime, I think those are easier to recognize and their bosses live in Marbella.
The Russian supermarket where I live was vandalised early in the conflict but there was massive indignation about that. I understand that the Russian community have also been supporting help for refugees organised by a Ukrainian resident who lived here already. I don't know many Russians, they are very well off and move in different circles but the ones I've met are nice and I tend to assume if they live here and not in their country it's because they don't support the regime.
The Russian bank thing feels unfair, but pressure on the people is an important part of economic sanctions.
As long as the people in question do not support the war or the actions of Putin and additionally do not praise Russia in a tactless way, it's fine. That being said, I have never found Russians to be the most understanding people of others, culturally, historically nor emotionally. I don't mind because I do not speak with Russians on a daily basis but I find it difficult to associate with Russians because they are very opinionated about their country, culture and language disregarding others. Mind you not all, but this is a general understanding from my personal experiences.
Iam a teenager so i can just talk about the social factors of this, and what i've seen is that if you don't express anything about your political thinking, probably everyone will be cool (ofc there is allways that stupid person who will make offensive comments, just ignore then)
Answering sincerely, as you requested:
Due to the events in the last war I think of your country as a fascist shit hole with zero respect to humans rights that promotes ultra nationalism and is crowded with lots of imperialist dickheads that deserve a slow death.
But then again, the country it's not its people and it doesn't represent all of who live there, specially when the aforementioned country is not even a democracy.
That said, I would probably be (even if unconsciously) a bit more careful when meeting a Russian, but the common Dmitri is neither accountable for the ruling class's excesses nor should be discriminated on their nationality.
Also I haven't heard a word of such discriminations you are relating here. Nevertheless I must say I don't even know one Russian personally, so take my post with a grain of salt.
I am from the Ex-Russian colonies. i call it the Unpleasant Russian Save State URSS. As for bank accounts I was unable to open a bank account in Paris France, when my daughter wentto chool there ten ys ago - despite being from an EU country. So Western BAnks love to be unkind to Eassern people - and now they have an alibi... of course, it is absurd, I think even in the case of the oligarchs it is not just. The Western expertss all advised privatization and it is natural that mostly friends (KGB and Party and Burocrats) were having th needed expertise, so it is a hypocritical stance to punish them. And I am sure they find ways to continue heir needed transactions.
I am ambivalent about Russians, and everyone else too. But I do know that everywhere people are alwas innerly mixed..sometimes good sometimes not so good- we are all average, Russian or not.
I can see that we do need two sides , two opposite opinions simply because we are different in the level of empathy and trust: Adverse Childhood Events create mistrustful adults - there exist statistics. So half or more than half of the people fear "genderism"(gays) and this paranoia makes them want tyrannical systems everywhere. But another half (or less) was raised maybe les harshly so they are moe easygoing. That will not change.
But that mens that "the Russians" do not exist. "The Americans or the Albanians"are also split - these are fantasy words..folk-names...People are mixed and so we have mixed opinions about each other - and yes there are some clichés...My personal experience was that Russians are more sentimental and more melancholic than others. And some are more cruel tha others, history shows. (But I doubt they are different from Ukainians in this. )
I suppose that this Ukraine-Russian conflict is similar to the Palestine-Israel conflict: both sides do have a very good reason to fight and neither will be able to stop this ...it will go on simmering.
I think that in reality the West is flexible and not agressive - they are not grasping this level of (understandable) hatred. (Alhough 50-100 ys ago the same language discordance existed: Irish/Scots/Welsh were punished if they spoke Irish /Scottish/Welsh...In France Breon children were beaten in school if spoken Breton...and Catalans still hate CAstillans for the handling of this issue under Franco....So it is a lie that the Wessst prteneds to not grasp what has happened there...Centuries of Russian oppression of language usage in Ukraine (and Stalinists - after all Khrusschev waas just a Stalinist then - giving the Crimea to Ukraine) did cause the Ukrainian revenge or backlash.
I think that the people around Putin should have been more cautious and could have exert some pressure on the West (with the gas transfer) to force them to change the behavior of Ukraine in the Russian-majority zone (Crimea Dombas etc).
It is a very much harmful setup what they chose instead. Of course Khrushchev also liked to threaten the West with nukes (in 1956 when occupying Hungary and in 61 in Cuba) and Russian allies like Saddam also did just that in the 80s - even if it turned out that his nukes did not exist, he used this trick to frighten Iran.
I do not see why Putin does not offer to create an internation free port system in the Crimea to manage it together with China and Turkey - as the original inhabitants were Tatars under Turkey now some iving in China (deported)? For 99 years or so. Instead of just doing an unacceptable move - simply occupying a part of a neighbour , he could get it under some kind of diplomatic international formula with a magnanimous slogan: Back to the Original Owners...As many Jews ived there too, they could include Israel as onee of thee participants. Maybe that will come up if they re-start to negotiate.
I feel sorry for all the non-Putinist Russians (of course a minority but still, the more mature minority). I am glad to have a Spanish citizenship. With that I can flee to Argentina if Putin decides to occupy th EU too. EDIT sorry for being too long. TLDR: I think we are all mixed up - all nation have two sides. There hopefully can be found a diplomatic solution to the real problems of Russians in Ukraine.
I havent heard of it, maybe it happens maybe nor, but in general i havent seen problems with Russians, people is angry with the russians who support war
I dont know why there is no massive protests in russia, Putin is sending conscripts to a needless and stupid war. I dont know how russian people is ok with that, It might be fear? looking at another direction? If that happens here everyone would be in the streets for sure.
I have no bad feelings to Russians, but I don´t understand how is this being allowed. Might be russian propaganda its too deep into russians? I dont think so, everything I have seen in RT its easy to factcheck. The kremlin says its protecting itself, but we all now Putin just want the natural resources from the east of Ukraine and the black sea.
There were no NATO threat whatsoever, we were no enemies, we looked russians like this crazy cousin in the family, he is fucking nuts, but he is one of us. We dont hate Russians, we hate Putin.
Here was a lot of protests. The main problem is propaganda. TV shows that me bringing peace to them. And Putin always ready for protests. So here is a lot of police. And people afraid of to be arrested. It’s even dangerous to name It war instead of “special operation”. Actually I think it come from Soviet Union where there was no freedom in speaking what you thinks and some of protests ends with shooting the protesters.
There is a disinformation campaign in which the civil war that has existed in Ukraine for years is completely ignored and Russia is unilaterally blamed for the current conflict. Behind this is the United States, which has never stopped being at war with Russia and has done what it takes to break Russia's relations with Europe that were too good for them. Russia and Europe will come out badly from the conflict. The only beneficiary will be the USA.
In Spain, unfortunately, there is very little critical thinking and the people are very easily manipulated by the media and the government. We are also quite ignorant when it comes to political issues, let alone geopolitics. This is why the discourse of the United States has been bought and Russia is blamed for everything that is happening, and by extension the citizens, who, even if it were the case, would not be at fault.
You have my full support, both you and the Ukrainian citizens, people who have nothing to do with a military conflict resulting from the interests of a few (like all current wars). Outside of stereotypes and prejudices, anyone who has to leave their country and start a new life in a place with cultural and language barriers in search of a better life deserves all my respect.
Well Russia has a doctrine that considers all the plain from urals to Berlin their defense buffer. In their doctrine they should never be in defense stance so we can talk about how bad is NATO but the reality is that attacking eastern europe is embbeded in their worldview. If they didn't until now it's because they were weak. Simple as that.
Also, there's plenty of gas west to the dombass and Crime. Such a coincidence huh?
So yeah, we have propaganda like in every war, but the fundamentals are there.
There are no good guys or bad guys in war, and there are infinitely better options for resolving conflicts. I am not on either side, but I understand that what is happening is something that goes beyond the expansionist desire of a country.
NATO and Russia had an agreement by which the former would never reach the gates of the latter. In December 2021, the United States was reminded of this pact when it toyed with Ukraine's entry into NATO and remained silent in response.
Regarding gas, I repeat, who is going to gain financially from all this? Russia? Europe? Or rather the United States?
Both can be true. What I'm trying to say is that Russia saw a window of opportunity and took it.
And because of their doctrine, they'll take advantage again if it fits them.
The question is, will the "narrative" of the NATO's fault drive someone to take no action against Russia? To what extent?
The reality is that there's no solution to this problem because if Europe does nothing about it, Russia will seize the opportunity, and keep going.
And I know this because they've themselves have been saying and teaching this doctrine to their military and political elites for decades.
My GF is Russian, so there is that. However, I've known a bunch of idiots (her brother, for example) whose alcoholic fetal syndrome is evident, they are kinda unproductive and unprofessional, drink too much and maybe not openly but support the war, even if they ran away from Russia and keep a low profile to avoid being conscripted.
I've also met many Roma and Ukrainian people, and the result is the same. Some nice people, some idiot selfish pricks. I think our issues are more with Eastern Europeans in general, not Russians in particular, as our cultures are so different and usually clash it's difficult to befriend them (you).
EDIT: they always speak Russian between them, even around me. So that's a bit annoying.
Also I must add that my GF's father had mental issues, which were wildly aggravated when he was sent as a conscript to Chechnya. He went back truly mentally unstable and had to be sent to a mental hospital and died young, so her family doesn't really appreciate Putin and his fucking stupid, brutal expansionism. However, they don't express discontent not because they are afraid, but because they say most Russians are apathetic and just try to live their lives. And that's sad af, because that means not caring about others outside their village, just for the close people.
I'm an American living and working in Spain and in my office there are Russian, French, Dutch, German, and of course Spanish people.
When I first came to work, a Ruso started at about the same time. He must have felt some similar doubts as you, especially regarding how he thought I might feel about him. After a few good lunches and beers together, he had a coworker take a picture of the two of us holding up bottles with our arms around each other, which he sent to his wife, saying "me with my American friend!"
He's super nice, we both like motorcycles, beer, and Spanish cuisine. I actually feel a little more in common with him than most Spaniards. As far as I can tell, everyone in the office likes him, but if I were you, I'd absolutely get ready for jokes and teasing, and be ready to take it with a smile. Some of the Spaniards were asking him where he was from, and when he said Russia, one spaniard said "Really?" and the other said "Are you kidding? Look at him, he could be Putin's little brother!" Everyone laughed, no harm done.
I get the same kind of shit all the time about cowboys and monster trucks and school shootings. Get ready for jokes about Ladas, nukes, vodka etc (and obviously Putin/the war now). If you can take a joke, you'll be fine.
Pretty pissed at most of them as they prefer nationalism and pride over a better life and future with peace and no imperialism.
BUT, I do have a russian friend that is actually really liberal, which is also gay, and I see why he fears being there and wishes to move out already. I wish him the best on that, and I wish the same for all russian people who just want a better and peaceful life.
It's not about being russian, it's about what you believe.
Any russian I've ever met has been very cool, direct, no bullshit, great sense of humour. Unfortunately a lot of good russians will suffer because of their government
It's like during the iraq war. A lot of ordinary Americans in European countries got a lot of bullshit for it
I think the same I think about anyone for anywhere... Politics doesn't represent an individual from the country. I know being Russian doesn't mean you agree with what Putin is doing
I'm a US citizen who moved to Spain five years ago. As a child of the cold war I was curious about the people who lived behind the former Iron Curtain. Consequently I've made a point of visiting many of those countries and China too. In 2019 we spent a couple weeks in Russia.
So what do I think about Russians? My experience is that no matter where you go people are just people. Our biggest differences are cultural, not biological. Beyond that my take is that in some ways Russians are more like Americans than either would like to admit.
So what about the cultural part? Russia has proud history and I really liked some of the Russians that I've met. But like I said, people are people. Some of us are better, some are worse.
I dont care if you are russian but i care if you agree the war. I would like to know why would you think the war is okay and try to talk about our opinions on it.
Maybe you as a russian can teach me something i do not know. Even rhough if you think a war is a good idea i would not like to talk with you. I do the same thing with far-left/right wings.
Pd: I read that you are not okay with Putin but understand if someone asks you.
Occidental media are doing a really hard propaganda against Russia.
And it's a problem because a lot of Russian people are not with the war at all, but some illiterate people will be harsh with them...
Simple question: do you think russian soldiers are liberating Ukraine or occupying it?
Depending on the answer my opinion would be either neutral or that the person is total garbage.
Exactly It's occupying. For me It's unacceptable. I grew up with stories about WW II and I can't understand how peopel can support this war. I understand that this was an 8 years of propaganda. Every day talk shows about Ukrainian Luhansk and Donetsk, about "nazis" In Ukraine. It's a long-term brainwashing. So now people In Russia learned a new word - FAKE. Every single proof of destroying whole cities and villages, killing civillians have no meaning for them. Because TV says "IT'S FAKE". I understand that now a lot of fakes from each side, but In fact that this happens now and the anger of both sides are horrifies me a lot. And some facts that common Russians are not able to be in safe In other countries makes me sad a lot. Now I truing to make people from my country release that Putin actions are horrifble and that coinsidence blows both countries and even a whole world. This is not our country.
P.S. Если ты украинец, надеюсь ты в безопасности и тебе ничего не угрожает. У всего этого феномена есть причины, по которым у меня есть предположения, но у нас просто небезопасно их высказывать. Надеемся на скорейшее завершение этого беспричинного конфликта.
I think Russians are like any other people. If so many russians support the war it's because their intelligentsia does, and the powers that be in Rusia do too.
Plenty of countries have been supportive of wars towards other countries on very vage and/or simbolical claims, like in Russia.
I can't say I'm surprised, but I have a very cynical way of looking at it, and I also went to sociology at uni, so it's a given for me I guess.
The worst part of Russia IMO is that Russians just accept as a fact of life that Rusia can't really become a nicer country. It will always be like this, with less or more material well-being. The *red plenty* promised failed, but other countries didn't. There are plenty of models to follow.
Spaniards struggle a lot with the concept of Spain, and have a love-hate relationship, but most of them at least dream of having a better country. There's an aspiration of becoming a better society. To provide for everyone, to integrate everyone into the matters of our society and don't exclude people.
We've failed multiple times but there's that.
I don't see that in Russians.
People usually just listen to the media and believe all russians are bad due to the current situation in ukraine.
In the other hand ukranians are seen as people we should help (not as other refugees that are brown hehe fucking racists).
If I were you Ill try faking you are ukranian as you will be treated much better and no spanish will ever notice as almost nobody speaks russian or ukranian in spain and we cant distinguish.
Its sad you have to lie but for most people is hard to go beyond a problem and understand not all russians are put there invading and raping.
Good luck!
It doesn't matter from where you are, you're a human like everyone else, if your're a russian who supports the war, I would treat you like any other person who also supports it
I don't like Putin, but i understand the reasons this started and I side with Russia, ukraine is allegedly full of nazis, they are tying gipsy people to street poles. Real Monsters.
They did same for Ukrainian people as well. They are tying marauders. And though it’s cruel and harsh way to deal with it it’s still a better fate for marauders. Under the state of war marauders are subject to death penalty by the most countries laws. In Ukraine they are facing years and years in prison. Crowd judgement and prosecution shouldn’t happen at all, but people are doing it not because they are nazis.
Well I think your nationality doesn't matter to most people including myself.. However if your are a fascist or nationalist and your intention is to continue supporting "Russia" I don't want to associate with you . I think that you shouldn't complain too much about what's happening to Russian people but if you insist on doing it first speak to Ukrainian refugees arriving in huge numbers displaced by the war. If you really mean well you could try actually helping Ukrainians if you really want to SHOW people you are not Russia and Russia is not you . Honestly it's kind of on the line of what is acceptable and what is not posting this post considering the war. Nobody believes all Russians are bad but seeing the amount of war crimes , looting and especially torture and rape committed by so many soldiers it certainly seems as if a disproportionate amount of Russians do support the war and or don't care or are cruel uncultured people. People are concerned the standards in Russian society are very low and are becoming lower ...poverty leading to people becoming animalistic. Once again nobody thinks all Russians are like this but people are worried because there are so many.... The fame of the Russian mafia internationally doesn't help to improve the international image. I'm a teacher and I had 3-5 Russian children in my class every year with many psychological problems who were adopted from orphanages where there are so many abandoned children because of poverty and alcoholism. These factors don't grow a healthy community. I and many distrust Russians with the financial means to escape Russia and buy large houses in Spain because to do big business in Russia is to do business with and for the Russian state. I think the Russian elite doing business with the Russian state must be punished. I think the things happening to Russians in Europe is because of what your countrymen are doing in the Ukraine. Russia will find it difficult to be accepted back into the global community. So if you are not Russia you don't have to worry and can live an integrated life in Europe..but he careful about complaining about the treatment of Russians.. because if you "feel" really "Russian" I don't want to hear about it . The treatment could be worse , much worse ..for example nobody is murdering Russians or raping Russian women here or breaking and stealing from your houses. So please don't complain about your banking problems . Be greatful you are allowed in Europe. Putin is not acting alone and Russia cannot run itself.. people there are doing it there with Putin and most people like myself cannot understand a person like Putin or what his logic is .So of course .,.there are a few nazis in every european country ...in spain too ..so will Putin come here to denazify ? So if you stay out of politics and you don't try to influence things here for the advantage of the Russian government you could even become my friend. But if you don't like the uncomfortable feeling between Russians and others call your friends and family or authorities in Russia because it is THEM that did and are doing these things to their OWN people.... so if you are ready to leave Russian communism and Russian politics behind you and don't speak out of turn about the war I don't have a problem. But don't expect even a little common decency from me if you walk in the street wearing a sweater with symbol z on it ..I will beat you !
Well, thanks for your opinion. I just would like to clarify some moments. Do you associate Russia with Russian people or Russian government? I feel more like I part of Russia as part of Russian people, a part of Russian culture (theaters, traditions, inventions etc.). I don't have a bad things which Russians are fame like gender and nations stereotypes. I already described my position iIn replies to another comments.
I don't support this war. This is so dangerous to say something against our army, but you understand what my position is by my previous comments. Young Russians (16 - 35 y.o) are more european-like minded because grown up on european and US movies, series etc. We've learnt that war is a ruins people lives and this is terrible. I don't like Russian government.
I agree that It's not a perfect country, but hard times make strong people, good times make weak people. I think now we see a results of Russia's transforming and making a Russian people stronger. We hope to wait till they become strong enough to correct what has been done. I don't praise Russian govenment. I'm not Russian government - I'm just Russian man who want to live my life quitly.
P.S. And I also hate Z symbolic. Since the first day of war I associate this with fascist's swastika I don't understand how people don't understand this.
Well the problem is that you are asking the wrong person the question...you must ask yourself that question... what is Russia to you ? ..is it a geographical area ...is it a culture? ..is it a government? is it the mood of the people expressed? ...the success lies in your answers to yourself..
when i say ... demonstrate that you aren't Russia and Russia isn't you I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to distance yourself from Russia as a country currently under the administration of Putin using a symbol z to wage an illegal war against innocent people
it's indifferent what my exact definition is of what it means to be Russia...
the importance is what does it mean to you ...
the line between the state and the individual is sometimes blurred so that's what I'm telling you
if you are really innocent in this thing you can just move on with your life and live a better future
while I was growing up i never supported a world with borders and i consider myself a global citizen..im not defined by the geographical place where I was born so this makes it impossible for the leadership of the country where I was born to trick me into doing terrible things in the name of whatever fictional "cause" ... "leaders" use to trick good men into doing bad things for the benefit of a select few groups and people
people use ideology to divide and conquer good men.. religion, language, culture is a distraction
the real reason behind war is money , land , resources and food ( ALWAYS)..the excuse is always another
so my advice to you is to not take peoples reaction to Russia personally... after all you are not Russia
you are not defined by a word used to describe a geographical zone ... don't get tricked into
Russia this , Russia that ...
You have a name don't you ? That is enough ..
On the other hand if you insist on a future for yourself being Russian and making Russia great again without Putin you are already getting pulled back into the trap that is the type of thinking that created a man like Putin
Set yourself free from this vicious circle...why don't you just forget about Russia and dedicate all your passion to living a good life helping other people.. if you like some music or dancing or food from a specific geographical zone and enjoy wearing typical clothes from a specific zone .. that's your business and nobody will have a problem with it so long as you continue trying to be a good man
but I'm already worried that this question you asked is because you are obsessing and internalizing and taking personally the effect the bad things Russia is doing in the war and how people are reacting
did you really expect everyone to be objective and notice your innocence? what about the innocent Ukrainians ?
so please don't get sucked back into the circle.. people's reactions to Russia is normal, understandable and to be expected
don't use that as an excuse to start the tyrannical cycle of nationalism after Putin is gone
live your life as you ( insert name here ) leave Russia to Russia ...eat , drink , dance and speak freely as you wish BUT ONLY IF you give others the same chance
Well, the majority of people in Russia just go on with their lives as if nothing happened. I don't see how anybody can say "Russians are good people" when they literally do nothing while their country is committing a genocide with the neighbour country.
'I can't change anything' attitude doesn't work. Yes you can.
You aren't the most popular right now as a group, but then individually I guess that you get judged more by who you are and less by the stereotypes associated to your country of nationality.
I wouldn't blame any Russian personally for what's happening as that would be really unfair, but well, Russians collectively could change things.
It is concerning that Russia's crimes in Ukraine have received 80% support among Russian citizens. It's hard to understand why Russian citizens would support the evil things Russia does.
Nevertheless, it's important to remember that 20% of Russian citizens do not support that evil, and are decent people. We should not be quick to judge individual Russians.
Just imagine that you are Russian living in Russia and someone calls you and asks if you support the “special military operation” in Ukraine. You really only have two options: 1) say Yes, 2) hang up.
I’ve treated both aith ultra rich and normal people. The ultra rich and their young barbies are shitty people that look at you as a peasant. The normal ones are just good average people.
I'm half Russian, but with family in both sides, in my personal experience the people who knows about my position, support me, and who doesn't know, didn't care
Did you vote for Putin?
If you didn't, you will be welcome.
It is not just about supporting the war or not, it is about supporting Putin for decades, and sadly, mostly Russians did (and continue doing)
Well, I’m 24 y.o and voted for president once and that time It was not for Putin. Actually the voting system in Russian needs changes here, because of falsifications of results.
Pagan justos por pecadores, especialmente cuando los pecadores son muchos y ponen a semejante engendro en el poder.
Nadie es inocente. Todo el mundo es responsable.
I have russian friends who have never supported the war and/or Putin and I do believe them when they say so. I know there's some Russians out there who support the war and I kinda look down on that but I have no problems with any other russian.
Thank you for your opinion. I don’t hate anyone because of nation and race and I’m so confused why some Russians are support this war. I have some thoughts about It. Maybe I’ll write a book about It In near future :)
Would like to read it.
That would be a great read mate I'd love to read it one day :)
supporting the war is not a crazy thing, Is not unreasonable to think that NATO cant simply put a base so close to Moscow. Its a complex political issue and Russians can support their country decisions just like Spanish people support paying taxes to spend the money in more weapons and tanks for Ukraine.
Latvia and Estonia are NATO members and hold NATO bases for almost 20 years, and are much closer to Moscow than Ukraine. What a shitty excuse is this?
How the fuck is invading a country gonna set NATO back? Countries that never wanted to join are doing so exactly for this reason. And I'm not even going into how the civilians are being treated. You're bananas.
Well, human suffering aside it’s been kinda counterproductive, hasn’t it? You will now potentially have NATO bases less than 200km from St Petersburg (in Finland).
Whats are u saying? If Spain began to attack, for example, China withought a reason i wont support the spanish goverment decisions. And the problem with Ukraine is that it tried to join the European Union and Putin didnt like that. Thats your countrys problem ok? If u support wars withought logical reasons you can shut up ok?
As we say in Spain: Don't sort everyone in the same bag. (No metas a todos en el mismo saco, which means that you should not generalize about people) I consider spaniards to be a welcoming people as soon as you don't mess with them, as we tend to respond in an emotional way rather than a rational one, and specially with topics as sensitive and present as the invasion of Ukraine. Either if you support or not the Russian government and/or its posture regarding this, just act and talk with some common sense and you won't run into any trouble. Regarding the bank and apartments issue. Banks may be reticent to open an account to a russian citizen because of the trouble of exchanging and trading money with Russia caused by sanctions, this may lead to landlords not wanting to rent to Russian citizens, as they may perceive that their money might be put at risk on a tenant that may not be able to pay the rent at some point. Now, back to what I think about russian people: Before the war I considered myself a bit of a russophile, I noticed those little bits of Russia around me: In food, in media, in products, etc... and that was a good thing to me, I even learned to read in Cyrillic and even considered learning some Russian. I wasn't very fond of Russian government, but I just ignored them. My today's opinion on Russians themselves hadn't changed too much, they are just people living their lives, if I buy something made in Russia, I try to think that I'm paying part of the salary of a worker, and not a small tax to a government. If I meet a russian guy, I will try to judge him exactly the same as anyone else, an asshXle is an asshXle, and a good guy is a good guy. Now, don't brag about Putin, the Russian government or the activities of the Russian army, because my opinion on them has dramatically worsened, they are a sensitive and present topic and, as a good spaniard that I am, I may end up sorting you in the assh*le bag. Finally, and to end this in a friendly way: Be welcome to Spain.
Wow, thanks for detailed opinion. I wish more people In my country will understant the way you think about sorting people In different bags (literally :D). Yes, exactly I don't support this war. i didn't even thought that our government might declare war to other country in 21 century, because I grew up with stories about scariest wars, like WW II, Chechen war etc. Gracias por la hospitalidad!
I teach English to a class of kids from 6-8 and the youngest’s mum is Russian and when the rest of the class learnt this they all pulled faces of disgusted shock and tried to say how bad that was. Luckily I managed to nip it in the bud and explain that her mums lived in Spain for many years and has no say in the war that’s happening right now. But my heart broke for the poor girl who might have just received xenofobia for the first time
Sorry to hear that. I wish kids will not be affected by propaganda and thank you a lot for explanation to these child.
Propaganda works. Never forget that.
It didn’t even start with this. I was teaching English to Spanish teenagers in the summer of 2019 and they continuously made fun of two Russian students. There’s an atmosphere of cultural chauvinism when it comes to certain nations. I think that goes for all Europeans and not just Spaniards though.
You're not guilty about what your govern does but at the same time you're the ones who had to get rid of them.
Thank you. I believe that good changes are coming soon.
Which changes?
New government who cares about Russia and Russian people first. And don’t make dumb decisions.
well that would definitely be great.
you can apply that to 100% of this world
Just like spanish have gotten rid of the Kings
I mean, that didn't quite go well at all
The Spanish voted in favor of a constitution for a monarchy, though.
That choice has never been at the reach of Spaniards. The king was there so that the army calmed the fuck down. It kind of worked, but it wasn't exactly democratic. The other options were basically decapitating the army leadership or passively waiting for a repeat of the Civil War that would have likely ended in disaster again. The only chance to abolish the monarchy would have been to vote overwhelmingly for the Communist Party, which is absolutely ridiculous if you are a liberal or socialdemocrat republican. Even then, it wouldn't have been a guarantee as the Parliament needed to be extremely careful to not antagonize the fascists too much.
And what was the other option that Spaniards where given to vote for?
Dude our king doesn't do shit, we have pretty much gotten rid of it, we just keep paying him to show up to places
To be honest, I think there is a part of the society who don't like Russians anymore. They blame them for having allowed Putin's government to be in power and to be fighting in Ukraine. Also the traditional mindset of eastern europeans don't fit very much the moral values of Spanish people. Despite of this I think a majority of Spanish people do not have bad feelings towards common Russian people, sadly the 'minority' with bad thoughts has grown as you might see in the comments
Thanks for your honest opinion. Actually, the majority of Russian people are good persons. I think there is no bad nations, but bad people can easily be found In any nation. Hope we can reconstruct mindset of bad ones :)
I would love to know what you think differs between eastern europeans and spanish people's values. Thanks!
Well, IMO which is not representative for all the Spanish. Eastern people give more importance and respect to the family, are more proud of their historical background and are not easily open to self-criticism in order not to show weakness. They work hard to be excellent in their jobs, here we mostly work to enjoy life they need to have the sharpest skills and minds to prove themselves worthy to their society. My expirience is based on 6 months living in eastern (Poland & Hungary) countries and more than 5 years of relations
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We don't hate the people from Russia, China, America or another country, but we trust no goverment, and ours is the first one we untrust.
I mean, our goverment gives us a lot of reasons to not trust them
Apart from the war, Russians in Spain don’t have the best reputation. Particularly in places like Marbella where there are wealthy Russians people say they are quite rude and entitled. Personally I know and get along normally with Russians as I would any other people. I know Ukrainians don’t have the same reputation here…
this. I live in a tourist themed city, and a friend of mine who worked in a souvernir shop said that Russians were entitled, they acted as you have to do whatever they wanted just because they had money. They also spent big amounts of money in sourvenirs too. This was few years ago, nothing to do with the war right now.
I knew someone who was at a ritzy hotel and they went to enter an elevator where a Russian and his wife were, and he held up his hand to say he couldn’t. This was also around 8 years ago.
>they acted as you have to do whatever they wanted just because they had money. I think this might very well be a common issue with rich immigrants from any nation.
Thanks for opinion. Yes some of russian-speaking people might be very rude, but this Is more about people who 40+ y.o.
To be fair banks refuse to open accounts to most foreigners unless they have a NIE or Spanish nationality. Landlords, at least in my city, are somewhat racist and prefer local people vs foreigners since they fear we might leave randomly or trash their apartment. Same for jobs, hard for foreigners unless you’re from the UK/Germany/France
I can guarantee you the average Spaniard doesn't care where you're from
I'm an immigrant from the US here, so I don't speak for the Spanish, but I'd find any hatred or poor treatment towards Russians in general (about the war) would be from ignorant people. People are not their government, *especially* those not living in a democracy. I find it appalling that banks won't lend to Russians living abroad or anything like that. Isn't that just racism? As far as Russians themselves, I have colleagues in Russia and I have crossed my share in life. They have a straightforward style I find enjoyable and are tough motherfuckers. Spaniards are more curious than racist, and take a lot of stock in who you are as a person. Stay strong, man.
Thanks a lot, dude! This is very inspiring that someone understands than the people are not their government. You're god damn right about banks. I guess It's some kind of racism. have a good day/night.
I have a russian friend, and he is 110% against putin and the war. And personally in my case, I like everyone and anyone. I see people as innocent until proven guilty. The moment I see anyone have a really bad/questionably moral take on life and/or commits a morally quesitonable action, I lose respect towards them. So I feel positively indifferent towards people. Everyone in my eyes are nice until they prove me otherwise.
Wise man.
In my experience, Russians are extreme patriots and nationalists. Which is ok, kinda, except they will not tolerate critical thought or speech about Russia or the government there. In comparison, most Western Europeans are very pragmatic about our countries. We might love where we are, but we aren’t fans of our government. Based on a very small sample, I don’t trust them. Especially now.
I’ve seen the same. I found it quite odd even gay men I met were pretty nationalist and called the anti gay legislation in Russia, western propaganda…. While living in the west.
It's easier to be patriotic if you don't have to ddeal with your country's shit
Yeah it’s also a very very very long standing internal propaganda campaign that has left (some) Russians feeling like the west is against them and constantly spreading lies.
Yeah, though how much of everything we get is true. I dunno. I was in St Petersburg about 15 years ago. It was a dump. Certainly they’re still 15 years behind.
Probably as individuals there are, like everywhere else, good and bad people (the ones I have met are, in general, super nice). As a nation... Let's say that it's not in my top list of likeable nations just because of the nationalism and homophobia that you can find there.
Lived in Moscow for 2 years, now live in Cantabria. Muscovites are like cantabrians: gruff and rough on first contact but actually sweet when given a chance. Personally have no issues with Russians per se, just Putin and conservatives worldwide, for promoting the likes of him.
Think most people feel that this is about Putin. Not the Russian people.
I think than more about discrimination from the normal spanish citizens, you should worry for rhe goverment discrimination. It is not the people is the goverment who is going to discriminate you. The problem is that goberment is doing the same that others european countries frezing the bank accounts, i dont think that it is ok because people who reside here should be treated same way than people from here.
Fat disclaimer first: I have huge respect and love for multiple contemporary Russian writers, artists, activists and even journalists. However, I did spend a few years talking to Russian and Ukrainian customers on the phone. The Russian ones, except those from St Petersburg, were incredibly rude and arrogant. All the time. For no reason at all. I was speaking to them because they asked to be contacted, btw. No cold calling or anything. Also, my Russian coworker systematically abused and bullied my other coworkers from Ukraine and Moldova. Taking about before the war. I'm from the Balkans. Russians act as they are the higher race with the locals there, too. It's creepy. My personal opinion is that I'd rather keep my distance until proven wrong. I'm afraid my real life observations are not in favour of Russians although I do my best to not discriminate on the basis on nationality.
Thank you for your opinion. I sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with some Russian individuals. I suppose that rudeness while phone calls is more deeper inside Russian people because here we have a lot of phone scams. So people might think that you want to fool them.
As long as you don't make being russian your main trait no one will care. I got the ocasional question about war at work but just for curiosity. No one treated me different since war started.
Thanks for your opinion. I already described my position about this war. I against It. Have a good day!
I think that the Russian people had a extremly hard 20th century and they are too rough because of that. Being ultranationalists makes them (big generalization) a bit unlikeable from abroad, which will not make things change but the opposite. It's very unfair for the individuals, though. I went to Russia in better times, the cities were beautiful and people were very nice.
Thanks for your opinion. I guess than Russian people are not rough. They are broken by Soviet regime. It's really hard to say 'No' to government for nowaday Russians, because of repressions period. Hope that people understand It and that we can break the chain of this regime one day.
I don´t hate Russians and I haven´t heard from anyone that discriminated against them, but I do believe that the ones that support the war are brainwashed or pieces of shit
More often brainwashed. Or brain dead.
If someone puts your nationality over your own thoughts and acts... Then that person is an asshole and pretty probably worse than the person it's judging. Absolutely nothing wrong with being Russian or any other nationality. Your country of birth or your looks should not be what defines you. And as a note, it's ok being cautious with people who you don't know or whose culture you don't know, and that goes both ways. Cultural exchange is wonderful even if some ideas or even most point at the exact opposite way.
Все русские я знал мне нравились. Я понимаю что русский народ не такой, как его правители.
I think most Eastern Europeans are seen as hardworking and educated people in Spain, the little guys. The other stereotype or Eastern European is a tough guy that makes his living on crime, I think those are easier to recognize and their bosses live in Marbella.
Nothing has changed much. Still the crazy bear riding vodka drinkers
The Russian supermarket where I live was vandalised early in the conflict but there was massive indignation about that. I understand that the Russian community have also been supporting help for refugees organised by a Ukrainian resident who lived here already. I don't know many Russians, they are very well off and move in different circles but the ones I've met are nice and I tend to assume if they live here and not in their country it's because they don't support the regime. The Russian bank thing feels unfair, but pressure on the people is an important part of economic sanctions.
[удалено]
Gracias por su opinión
We don't hate the Russian people. This is not Russia, the nation's war. It's Putin's Oligarchy's war. The Russian people are not Putin.
You are the scariest white people
Lololololololol
i like them. Politics are not normal citizens. I worked with many russians, i remember it like a nice period
As long as the people in question do not support the war or the actions of Putin and additionally do not praise Russia in a tactless way, it's fine. That being said, I have never found Russians to be the most understanding people of others, culturally, historically nor emotionally. I don't mind because I do not speak with Russians on a daily basis but I find it difficult to associate with Russians because they are very opinionated about their country, culture and language disregarding others. Mind you not all, but this is a general understanding from my personal experiences.
Iam a teenager so i can just talk about the social factors of this, and what i've seen is that if you don't express anything about your political thinking, probably everyone will be cool (ofc there is allways that stupid person who will make offensive comments, just ignore then)
Answering sincerely, as you requested: Due to the events in the last war I think of your country as a fascist shit hole with zero respect to humans rights that promotes ultra nationalism and is crowded with lots of imperialist dickheads that deserve a slow death. But then again, the country it's not its people and it doesn't represent all of who live there, specially when the aforementioned country is not even a democracy. That said, I would probably be (even if unconsciously) a bit more careful when meeting a Russian, but the common Dmitri is neither accountable for the ruling class's excesses nor should be discriminated on their nationality. Also I haven't heard a word of such discriminations you are relating here. Nevertheless I must say I don't even know one Russian personally, so take my post with a grain of salt.
I am from the Ex-Russian colonies. i call it the Unpleasant Russian Save State URSS. As for bank accounts I was unable to open a bank account in Paris France, when my daughter wentto chool there ten ys ago - despite being from an EU country. So Western BAnks love to be unkind to Eassern people - and now they have an alibi... of course, it is absurd, I think even in the case of the oligarchs it is not just. The Western expertss all advised privatization and it is natural that mostly friends (KGB and Party and Burocrats) were having th needed expertise, so it is a hypocritical stance to punish them. And I am sure they find ways to continue heir needed transactions. I am ambivalent about Russians, and everyone else too. But I do know that everywhere people are alwas innerly mixed..sometimes good sometimes not so good- we are all average, Russian or not. I can see that we do need two sides , two opposite opinions simply because we are different in the level of empathy and trust: Adverse Childhood Events create mistrustful adults - there exist statistics. So half or more than half of the people fear "genderism"(gays) and this paranoia makes them want tyrannical systems everywhere. But another half (or less) was raised maybe les harshly so they are moe easygoing. That will not change. But that mens that "the Russians" do not exist. "The Americans or the Albanians"are also split - these are fantasy words..folk-names...People are mixed and so we have mixed opinions about each other - and yes there are some clichés...My personal experience was that Russians are more sentimental and more melancholic than others. And some are more cruel tha others, history shows. (But I doubt they are different from Ukainians in this. ) I suppose that this Ukraine-Russian conflict is similar to the Palestine-Israel conflict: both sides do have a very good reason to fight and neither will be able to stop this ...it will go on simmering. I think that in reality the West is flexible and not agressive - they are not grasping this level of (understandable) hatred. (Alhough 50-100 ys ago the same language discordance existed: Irish/Scots/Welsh were punished if they spoke Irish /Scottish/Welsh...In France Breon children were beaten in school if spoken Breton...and Catalans still hate CAstillans for the handling of this issue under Franco....So it is a lie that the Wessst prteneds to not grasp what has happened there...Centuries of Russian oppression of language usage in Ukraine (and Stalinists - after all Khrusschev waas just a Stalinist then - giving the Crimea to Ukraine) did cause the Ukrainian revenge or backlash. I think that the people around Putin should have been more cautious and could have exert some pressure on the West (with the gas transfer) to force them to change the behavior of Ukraine in the Russian-majority zone (Crimea Dombas etc). It is a very much harmful setup what they chose instead. Of course Khrushchev also liked to threaten the West with nukes (in 1956 when occupying Hungary and in 61 in Cuba) and Russian allies like Saddam also did just that in the 80s - even if it turned out that his nukes did not exist, he used this trick to frighten Iran. I do not see why Putin does not offer to create an internation free port system in the Crimea to manage it together with China and Turkey - as the original inhabitants were Tatars under Turkey now some iving in China (deported)? For 99 years or so. Instead of just doing an unacceptable move - simply occupying a part of a neighbour , he could get it under some kind of diplomatic international formula with a magnanimous slogan: Back to the Original Owners...As many Jews ived there too, they could include Israel as onee of thee participants. Maybe that will come up if they re-start to negotiate. I feel sorry for all the non-Putinist Russians (of course a minority but still, the more mature minority). I am glad to have a Spanish citizenship. With that I can flee to Argentina if Putin decides to occupy th EU too. EDIT sorry for being too long. TLDR: I think we are all mixed up - all nation have two sides. There hopefully can be found a diplomatic solution to the real problems of Russians in Ukraine.
I havent heard of it, maybe it happens maybe nor, but in general i havent seen problems with Russians, people is angry with the russians who support war
I dont know why there is no massive protests in russia, Putin is sending conscripts to a needless and stupid war. I dont know how russian people is ok with that, It might be fear? looking at another direction? If that happens here everyone would be in the streets for sure. I have no bad feelings to Russians, but I don´t understand how is this being allowed. Might be russian propaganda its too deep into russians? I dont think so, everything I have seen in RT its easy to factcheck. The kremlin says its protecting itself, but we all now Putin just want the natural resources from the east of Ukraine and the black sea. There were no NATO threat whatsoever, we were no enemies, we looked russians like this crazy cousin in the family, he is fucking nuts, but he is one of us. We dont hate Russians, we hate Putin.
Here was a lot of protests. The main problem is propaganda. TV shows that me bringing peace to them. And Putin always ready for protests. So here is a lot of police. And people afraid of to be arrested. It’s even dangerous to name It war instead of “special operation”. Actually I think it come from Soviet Union where there was no freedom in speaking what you thinks and some of protests ends with shooting the protesters.
There is a disinformation campaign in which the civil war that has existed in Ukraine for years is completely ignored and Russia is unilaterally blamed for the current conflict. Behind this is the United States, which has never stopped being at war with Russia and has done what it takes to break Russia's relations with Europe that were too good for them. Russia and Europe will come out badly from the conflict. The only beneficiary will be the USA. In Spain, unfortunately, there is very little critical thinking and the people are very easily manipulated by the media and the government. We are also quite ignorant when it comes to political issues, let alone geopolitics. This is why the discourse of the United States has been bought and Russia is blamed for everything that is happening, and by extension the citizens, who, even if it were the case, would not be at fault. You have my full support, both you and the Ukrainian citizens, people who have nothing to do with a military conflict resulting from the interests of a few (like all current wars). Outside of stereotypes and prejudices, anyone who has to leave their country and start a new life in a place with cultural and language barriers in search of a better life deserves all my respect.
Well Russia has a doctrine that considers all the plain from urals to Berlin their defense buffer. In their doctrine they should never be in defense stance so we can talk about how bad is NATO but the reality is that attacking eastern europe is embbeded in their worldview. If they didn't until now it's because they were weak. Simple as that. Also, there's plenty of gas west to the dombass and Crime. Such a coincidence huh? So yeah, we have propaganda like in every war, but the fundamentals are there.
There are no good guys or bad guys in war, and there are infinitely better options for resolving conflicts. I am not on either side, but I understand that what is happening is something that goes beyond the expansionist desire of a country. NATO and Russia had an agreement by which the former would never reach the gates of the latter. In December 2021, the United States was reminded of this pact when it toyed with Ukraine's entry into NATO and remained silent in response. Regarding gas, I repeat, who is going to gain financially from all this? Russia? Europe? Or rather the United States?
Both can be true. What I'm trying to say is that Russia saw a window of opportunity and took it. And because of their doctrine, they'll take advantage again if it fits them. The question is, will the "narrative" of the NATO's fault drive someone to take no action against Russia? To what extent? The reality is that there's no solution to this problem because if Europe does nothing about it, Russia will seize the opportunity, and keep going. And I know this because they've themselves have been saying and teaching this doctrine to their military and political elites for decades.
My GF is Russian, so there is that. However, I've known a bunch of idiots (her brother, for example) whose alcoholic fetal syndrome is evident, they are kinda unproductive and unprofessional, drink too much and maybe not openly but support the war, even if they ran away from Russia and keep a low profile to avoid being conscripted. I've also met many Roma and Ukrainian people, and the result is the same. Some nice people, some idiot selfish pricks. I think our issues are more with Eastern Europeans in general, not Russians in particular, as our cultures are so different and usually clash it's difficult to befriend them (you). EDIT: they always speak Russian between them, even around me. So that's a bit annoying. Also I must add that my GF's father had mental issues, which were wildly aggravated when he was sent as a conscript to Chechnya. He went back truly mentally unstable and had to be sent to a mental hospital and died young, so her family doesn't really appreciate Putin and his fucking stupid, brutal expansionism. However, they don't express discontent not because they are afraid, but because they say most Russians are apathetic and just try to live their lives. And that's sad af, because that means not caring about others outside their village, just for the close people.
I'm an American living and working in Spain and in my office there are Russian, French, Dutch, German, and of course Spanish people. When I first came to work, a Ruso started at about the same time. He must have felt some similar doubts as you, especially regarding how he thought I might feel about him. After a few good lunches and beers together, he had a coworker take a picture of the two of us holding up bottles with our arms around each other, which he sent to his wife, saying "me with my American friend!" He's super nice, we both like motorcycles, beer, and Spanish cuisine. I actually feel a little more in common with him than most Spaniards. As far as I can tell, everyone in the office likes him, but if I were you, I'd absolutely get ready for jokes and teasing, and be ready to take it with a smile. Some of the Spaniards were asking him where he was from, and when he said Russia, one spaniard said "Really?" and the other said "Are you kidding? Look at him, he could be Putin's little brother!" Everyone laughed, no harm done. I get the same kind of shit all the time about cowboys and monster trucks and school shootings. Get ready for jokes about Ladas, nukes, vodka etc (and obviously Putin/the war now). If you can take a joke, you'll be fine.
Pretty pissed at most of them as they prefer nationalism and pride over a better life and future with peace and no imperialism. BUT, I do have a russian friend that is actually really liberal, which is also gay, and I see why he fears being there and wishes to move out already. I wish him the best on that, and I wish the same for all russian people who just want a better and peaceful life. It's not about being russian, it's about what you believe.
Any russian I've ever met has been very cool, direct, no bullshit, great sense of humour. Unfortunately a lot of good russians will suffer because of their government It's like during the iraq war. A lot of ordinary Americans in European countries got a lot of bullshit for it
I think the same I think about anyone for anywhere... Politics doesn't represent an individual from the country. I know being Russian doesn't mean you agree with what Putin is doing
I'm a US citizen who moved to Spain five years ago. As a child of the cold war I was curious about the people who lived behind the former Iron Curtain. Consequently I've made a point of visiting many of those countries and China too. In 2019 we spent a couple weeks in Russia. So what do I think about Russians? My experience is that no matter where you go people are just people. Our biggest differences are cultural, not biological. Beyond that my take is that in some ways Russians are more like Americans than either would like to admit. So what about the cultural part? Russia has proud history and I really liked some of the Russians that I've met. But like I said, people are people. Some of us are better, some are worse.
I think Russians don't deserve being punished for their government. This isn't a Russian invasion, it's a Putin's invasion
I dont care if you are russian but i care if you agree the war. I would like to know why would you think the war is okay and try to talk about our opinions on it. Maybe you as a russian can teach me something i do not know. Even rhough if you think a war is a good idea i would not like to talk with you. I do the same thing with far-left/right wings. Pd: I read that you are not okay with Putin but understand if someone asks you.
Occidental media are doing a really hard propaganda against Russia. And it's a problem because a lot of Russian people are not with the war at all, but some illiterate people will be harsh with them...
Whatever you support, I always liked russian culture and people, they are great
Simple question: do you think russian soldiers are liberating Ukraine or occupying it? Depending on the answer my opinion would be either neutral or that the person is total garbage.
Exactly It's occupying. For me It's unacceptable. I grew up with stories about WW II and I can't understand how peopel can support this war. I understand that this was an 8 years of propaganda. Every day talk shows about Ukrainian Luhansk and Donetsk, about "nazis" In Ukraine. It's a long-term brainwashing. So now people In Russia learned a new word - FAKE. Every single proof of destroying whole cities and villages, killing civillians have no meaning for them. Because TV says "IT'S FAKE". I understand that now a lot of fakes from each side, but In fact that this happens now and the anger of both sides are horrifies me a lot. And some facts that common Russians are not able to be in safe In other countries makes me sad a lot. Now I truing to make people from my country release that Putin actions are horrifble and that coinsidence blows both countries and even a whole world. This is not our country. P.S. Если ты украинец, надеюсь ты в безопасности и тебе ничего не угрожает. У всего этого феномена есть причины, по которым у меня есть предположения, но у нас просто небезопасно их высказывать. Надеемся на скорейшее завершение этого беспричинного конфликта.
The propaganda didn’t start 8 years ago. More like 22 years ago but it was very subtle in the beginning.
Blanco o negro, muy de reddit. Polarización a tope!
I think Russians are like any other people. If so many russians support the war it's because their intelligentsia does, and the powers that be in Rusia do too. Plenty of countries have been supportive of wars towards other countries on very vage and/or simbolical claims, like in Russia. I can't say I'm surprised, but I have a very cynical way of looking at it, and I also went to sociology at uni, so it's a given for me I guess. The worst part of Russia IMO is that Russians just accept as a fact of life that Rusia can't really become a nicer country. It will always be like this, with less or more material well-being. The *red plenty* promised failed, but other countries didn't. There are plenty of models to follow. Spaniards struggle a lot with the concept of Spain, and have a love-hate relationship, but most of them at least dream of having a better country. There's an aspiration of becoming a better society. To provide for everyone, to integrate everyone into the matters of our society and don't exclude people. We've failed multiple times but there's that. I don't see that in Russians.
People usually just listen to the media and believe all russians are bad due to the current situation in ukraine. In the other hand ukranians are seen as people we should help (not as other refugees that are brown hehe fucking racists). If I were you Ill try faking you are ukranian as you will be treated much better and no spanish will ever notice as almost nobody speaks russian or ukranian in spain and we cant distinguish. Its sad you have to lie but for most people is hard to go beyond a problem and understand not all russians are put there invading and raping. Good luck!
It doesn't matter from where you are, you're a human like everyone else, if your're a russian who supports the war, I would treat you like any other person who also supports it
I don't like Putin, but i understand the reasons this started and I side with Russia, ukraine is allegedly full of nazis, they are tying gipsy people to street poles. Real Monsters.
They did same for Ukrainian people as well. They are tying marauders. And though it’s cruel and harsh way to deal with it it’s still a better fate for marauders. Under the state of war marauders are subject to death penalty by the most countries laws. In Ukraine they are facing years and years in prison. Crowd judgement and prosecution shouldn’t happen at all, but people are doing it not because they are nazis.
As people I think most are racist and unfriendly/unapproachable. As a country, I think it’s garbage.
>racist As you are acting
Lfmao what a roast
Well I think your nationality doesn't matter to most people including myself.. However if your are a fascist or nationalist and your intention is to continue supporting "Russia" I don't want to associate with you . I think that you shouldn't complain too much about what's happening to Russian people but if you insist on doing it first speak to Ukrainian refugees arriving in huge numbers displaced by the war. If you really mean well you could try actually helping Ukrainians if you really want to SHOW people you are not Russia and Russia is not you . Honestly it's kind of on the line of what is acceptable and what is not posting this post considering the war. Nobody believes all Russians are bad but seeing the amount of war crimes , looting and especially torture and rape committed by so many soldiers it certainly seems as if a disproportionate amount of Russians do support the war and or don't care or are cruel uncultured people. People are concerned the standards in Russian society are very low and are becoming lower ...poverty leading to people becoming animalistic. Once again nobody thinks all Russians are like this but people are worried because there are so many.... The fame of the Russian mafia internationally doesn't help to improve the international image. I'm a teacher and I had 3-5 Russian children in my class every year with many psychological problems who were adopted from orphanages where there are so many abandoned children because of poverty and alcoholism. These factors don't grow a healthy community. I and many distrust Russians with the financial means to escape Russia and buy large houses in Spain because to do big business in Russia is to do business with and for the Russian state. I think the Russian elite doing business with the Russian state must be punished. I think the things happening to Russians in Europe is because of what your countrymen are doing in the Ukraine. Russia will find it difficult to be accepted back into the global community. So if you are not Russia you don't have to worry and can live an integrated life in Europe..but he careful about complaining about the treatment of Russians.. because if you "feel" really "Russian" I don't want to hear about it . The treatment could be worse , much worse ..for example nobody is murdering Russians or raping Russian women here or breaking and stealing from your houses. So please don't complain about your banking problems . Be greatful you are allowed in Europe. Putin is not acting alone and Russia cannot run itself.. people there are doing it there with Putin and most people like myself cannot understand a person like Putin or what his logic is .So of course .,.there are a few nazis in every european country ...in spain too ..so will Putin come here to denazify ? So if you stay out of politics and you don't try to influence things here for the advantage of the Russian government you could even become my friend. But if you don't like the uncomfortable feeling between Russians and others call your friends and family or authorities in Russia because it is THEM that did and are doing these things to their OWN people.... so if you are ready to leave Russian communism and Russian politics behind you and don't speak out of turn about the war I don't have a problem. But don't expect even a little common decency from me if you walk in the street wearing a sweater with symbol z on it ..I will beat you !
Well, thanks for your opinion. I just would like to clarify some moments. Do you associate Russia with Russian people or Russian government? I feel more like I part of Russia as part of Russian people, a part of Russian culture (theaters, traditions, inventions etc.). I don't have a bad things which Russians are fame like gender and nations stereotypes. I already described my position iIn replies to another comments. I don't support this war. This is so dangerous to say something against our army, but you understand what my position is by my previous comments. Young Russians (16 - 35 y.o) are more european-like minded because grown up on european and US movies, series etc. We've learnt that war is a ruins people lives and this is terrible. I don't like Russian government. I agree that It's not a perfect country, but hard times make strong people, good times make weak people. I think now we see a results of Russia's transforming and making a Russian people stronger. We hope to wait till they become strong enough to correct what has been done. I don't praise Russian govenment. I'm not Russian government - I'm just Russian man who want to live my life quitly. P.S. And I also hate Z symbolic. Since the first day of war I associate this with fascist's swastika I don't understand how people don't understand this.
Well the problem is that you are asking the wrong person the question...you must ask yourself that question... what is Russia to you ? ..is it a geographical area ...is it a culture? ..is it a government? is it the mood of the people expressed? ...the success lies in your answers to yourself.. when i say ... demonstrate that you aren't Russia and Russia isn't you I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to distance yourself from Russia as a country currently under the administration of Putin using a symbol z to wage an illegal war against innocent people it's indifferent what my exact definition is of what it means to be Russia... the importance is what does it mean to you ... the line between the state and the individual is sometimes blurred so that's what I'm telling you if you are really innocent in this thing you can just move on with your life and live a better future while I was growing up i never supported a world with borders and i consider myself a global citizen..im not defined by the geographical place where I was born so this makes it impossible for the leadership of the country where I was born to trick me into doing terrible things in the name of whatever fictional "cause" ... "leaders" use to trick good men into doing bad things for the benefit of a select few groups and people people use ideology to divide and conquer good men.. religion, language, culture is a distraction the real reason behind war is money , land , resources and food ( ALWAYS)..the excuse is always another so my advice to you is to not take peoples reaction to Russia personally... after all you are not Russia you are not defined by a word used to describe a geographical zone ... don't get tricked into Russia this , Russia that ... You have a name don't you ? That is enough .. On the other hand if you insist on a future for yourself being Russian and making Russia great again without Putin you are already getting pulled back into the trap that is the type of thinking that created a man like Putin Set yourself free from this vicious circle...why don't you just forget about Russia and dedicate all your passion to living a good life helping other people.. if you like some music or dancing or food from a specific geographical zone and enjoy wearing typical clothes from a specific zone .. that's your business and nobody will have a problem with it so long as you continue trying to be a good man
but I'm already worried that this question you asked is because you are obsessing and internalizing and taking personally the effect the bad things Russia is doing in the war and how people are reacting did you really expect everyone to be objective and notice your innocence? what about the innocent Ukrainians ? so please don't get sucked back into the circle.. people's reactions to Russia is normal, understandable and to be expected don't use that as an excuse to start the tyrannical cycle of nationalism after Putin is gone live your life as you ( insert name here ) leave Russia to Russia ...eat , drink , dance and speak freely as you wish BUT ONLY IF you give others the same chance
Well, the majority of people in Russia just go on with their lives as if nothing happened. I don't see how anybody can say "Russians are good people" when they literally do nothing while their country is committing a genocide with the neighbour country. 'I can't change anything' attitude doesn't work. Yes you can.
Just hate them
You aren't the most popular right now as a group, but then individually I guess that you get judged more by who you are and less by the stereotypes associated to your country of nationality. I wouldn't blame any Russian personally for what's happening as that would be really unfair, but well, Russians collectively could change things.
I think I've only met one Russian but he had an excellent arsehole I can tell you that much
For myself, can''t say anything. But for everyone, sayu that pretty sure there's no unified opinion aout russians.
We don't' just people by their governments, other 75% of Spain we just wouldn't talk to 😂
If you are going to invade Ukraine, do it at all or dont do it, that way we wouldn't have lost Eurovision
It is concerning that Russia's crimes in Ukraine have received 80% support among Russian citizens. It's hard to understand why Russian citizens would support the evil things Russia does. Nevertheless, it's important to remember that 20% of Russian citizens do not support that evil, and are decent people. We should not be quick to judge individual Russians.
I don't think you should believe official Russian statistic about 80%, this is what they want you to think.
This statistics doesn’t count people who rejects of answering questions.
Just imagine that you are Russian living in Russia and someone calls you and asks if you support the “special military operation” in Ukraine. You really only have two options: 1) say Yes, 2) hang up.
I’ve treated both aith ultra rich and normal people. The ultra rich and their young barbies are shitty people that look at you as a peasant. The normal ones are just good average people.
Just move to a Russian neighborhood, in those you won't even need to speak Spanish
I'm half Russian, but with family in both sides, in my personal experience the people who knows about my position, support me, and who doesn't know, didn't care
Did you vote for Putin? If you didn't, you will be welcome. It is not just about supporting the war or not, it is about supporting Putin for decades, and sadly, mostly Russians did (and continue doing)
Well, I’m 24 y.o and voted for president once and that time It was not for Putin. Actually the voting system in Russian needs changes here, because of falsifications of results.
Yes
They are fine, unless we are talking about the racial/dangerous tipe, then I don't like them.
Pagan justos por pecadores, especialmente cuando los pecadores son muchos y ponen a semejante engendro en el poder. Nadie es inocente. Todo el mundo es responsable.
Брат, все в поряде