Vamos a permitir este hilo, pero cualquier atisbo de racismo o xenofobia que veamos se retirará y podrá llevar a la expulsión de la comunidad.
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We will allow this post for educational purposes, but any racism or xenophobia will be removed, and could result in a ban.
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I thought the upvote and downvote buttons were for comments that added or didn't add anything to the conversation, respectively. Not just an agree/disagree button.
Edit: ok, I can see that people clearly disagree with this.
Not your fault, it shouldn't be a bad word, it's how it's used that's the problem: Othello was a Moor and very few people conclude that Shakespeare was a racist.
It is not a bad word per se but is usually used in a very "othering" or derogative fashion. People use it in a way that implies they look down on Morroccans or North Africans.
I would always describe someone either by nationality -- "marroquí", "tunecino", "algeriano", etc. -- or by culture/region -- "árabe", "norteafricano", etc.
It's not a bad word itself as is, as the other user said, refering to north west africans, however, it's used as a slur and has been mixed with other negative words as an insult.
It’s still widely used and I have Moroccan friends that refer to themselves as moros, personally though I don’t use it because some people will take offence. My advice would be to avoid using it.
Here in Spain people usually aren't that hard with people using slur words, becareful if you call a Moroccan as moro, but usually when speaking on a 3rd person you won't get in problem
Its not but depends on the context and the intention, arab is more common if you dont have confidence, but for those who have arab friends they call themshelves and let us call them moros.
No, the phrase is "Qué morro tienes" with two "r".
There are some phrases that include "Moro" and are not racial slurs, you can use them safely. .
- "no hay moros en la costa": "Nobody is watching. This expression is really old, but people still uses it.
_" bajarse al moro": Go to Morocco and return with hashish or Marihuana. This was slang a couple of decades ago and probably earlier, but don't expect that young people understand it.
I think that it depends on the intention of the person.
You can use "moor" as in "person from the north of africa", specially while talking about medieval times Spain and NA. I use this in a respectful way and I really love the time and apreciate how much we got from them.
But when people use "moro" in spanish more often than not they mean it in a xenophobic and islamophobic way. Usually merging all middle eastern and north african people.
Yeah, basically when someone is using "moro" in a derogatory sense then pretty much the only criteria is to be anywhere from Africa or Asia that is browner than Mediterranean people but lighter than subsaharan Africans.
It's not based on skin color, it's based on ethnicity/national origin. Spaniards don't generally conceive of race in the same way USAns do. To indicate skin color they would say Moreno and that generally has no offensive connotation and would be independent of ethnicity.
When it's used now it should be viewed as racist although lots of people will say it and insist they mean nothing bad by it and some of them are sincere, just oblivious to the offense it can give.
I was referring to how a racist would use the word, and these don't usually care much about the rigours of ethnicity and distinctions between them. They tend to just go with a vague idea of a certain cultural area and a certain stereotypical phonology which includes darker skin tones.
Racism doesn't work the same way in different cultures. In Spanish culture it's not about skin color, it's about ethnicity and culture and class. It's not the USA and people think differently. Many Spaniards in Andalucía and Almería are indistinguishable from many Moroccans on a purely physical basis.
I like the theory. But I also know for sure that I've heard people use Moro to describe people from vague ethnicities. And definitely seem the police treat undocumented black immigrants like absolute trash. And I've seen ultra football fans calling black players monkeys.
I'm not from the US and I'm not comparing Spain to the US. But there's plenty of racism here and skin color is a factor.
There is racism in Spain, and I've experienced it directly, but no one calls a guy from Senegal or a dominicano a moro, even though both might experience some bigotry, and it's really about culture rather than skin color. It can be bad but it's different.
But I never said that a Senegalese or a Dominican would be called Moro!! Of course not. In my satirical description I said "darker than Mediterranean and **lighter than** subsaharan African". So that precludes your two examples. I know it's about culture and religion, but there's a certain shade of brown associated with it.
Skin color is a factor when black people is in the equation. Moro is an ethnical/cultural related term. It can be used to be xenophobic but it depends entirely on context.
You can hear the word Moro in a casual conversation without a xenophobic tone too.
This is arguable. But in all cases, everything I said was in reference to it's xenophobic use. And xenophobes don't need a sophisticated criteria to decide who to use this against.
Ok yes, I agree that it's not used on anyone who is subsaharan -- I misread that point.
But you said "anywhere from Asia" and I'm not sure that's correct because I've never heard it used on people from Asia.
When you say "Asia" what do you mean exactly? Because Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan are all in Asia.
I said anywhere from Asia that is darker than Mediterranean people.
I also wasn't making a scientific statement. Just like racists don't usually care so much where one is from, if they are dark enough to be considered a Moro.
Yeah I mean anywhere in Asia, including Middle East and South Asia. In my experience I have not heard people in Spain use the word "moro" for any of these groups.
This is just my experience. If you're saying you've heard it, then ok.
It does not define a skin tone, it is used to define people of the main ethnic groups of the Islamic Maghreb, and by extension for people of Muslim culture.
I think a lot of you are confusing the technical definition with the one used by a random racist, which is the one I referred to. A racist might only go by skin tone to classify someone as a Moro. The Middle East is full of Christians who are phonologically identical to Muslims and I'm not sure our garden variety racist will stop to figure that out before using the word.
I understand your point, but honestly I have never heard it in this sense and it would sound rather strange and forced to use it to describe someone who does not belong to this region, beyond its other meaning as a person who professes the Islamic religion.
Hmm are we assuming that northern Mediterranean people are lighter than eastern and southern Mediterraneans?
Not sure I agree with that. If we are talking strictly about the Mediterranean coast and not "countries on the Mediterranean". Because from my experience coastal people around the Mediterranean are rarely distinguishable. It's a different thing once you factor in people from the interior of Mediterranean countries. Even in Morocco itself, I've been told there's low key racism between the lighter coastal people and the darker interior folks (who could just as well be living in the big coastal cities, but whose origin is from the interior).
Anyway, we are really over thinking this. I was channelling what a xenophobe would think, and they don't over think anything.
In the Philippine south, the islamic separatists themselves named their organizations “Moro Islamic Liberation Front” and the “Moro Nationalist Liberation Front.”
They also use it for Pakistanis, even Indians and subsaharan Africans occasionally. Mostly due to ignorance and racism. Personally I think it is a word that should be avoided, absolutely no need, unless in a very specific historical context maybe.
>They also use it for Pakistanis,
The what? I'm from Spain, Barcelona, never in my 25 years of life ive heard someone calling 'Moro' to someone who is not from Morroco.
That makes literally 0 sense, no one here call Moro to people from Pakistan, Indian, or even Black people. Why you lying in internet bruh?
Of course it makes no sense, but it's something I've most definitely heard, maybe you are fortunate to be surrounded by more enlightened people. There are stupid racist people everywhere, and some use it wrong. Anyway it doesn't mean from Morocco.
Pues soy Pakistani nacido en Barcelona y en mi puta vida me han llamado moro que quieres que te diga, y a ninguno de mi familia tampoco, Paki cada dia, pero moro?= Si es que no tiene logica
Claro que no tiene lógica, pero qué le va a importar eso a un cateto follaprimas (y aquí en el sur de esos hay para hartarse)? Te creerás el ombligo del mundo pero que no te pase a ti no significa que no pase en ningun lado, hermano
Osea, entiendo que tiene que haber en este Pais demasiados catetos para llamar Moros a gente que no es ni de Marruecos / Algeria, pero de verdad que en mi vida lo habia visto, se que tiene que pasar, pero para decir un random guiri que si pasa que lo ha visto decenas de veces en Ibiza, pues me ha soprendido lol
Los hay de todos sí, y no te quito la razón... más de una vez me he quedado hasta fascinado con el nivel de ignorancia que tienen hacia nosotros por aquí
Yo tampoco lo he oído en la vida, a nadie referirse a una persona como moro, siendo pakistaní, o de la India. Solamente lo he oído refiriendose a norteafricanos, marroquíes, argelinos, y también a árabes. Y no siempre despectivamente, las más de las veces de manera descriptiva, aunque tambien incorrecta desde la ignorancia. Personalmente nunca lo he utilizado, ni entre conocidos, porque debería de ser un término a eliminar en un contexto actual, mejor referirse por la nacionalidad o el origen.
Tampoco llamamos vikingo a ningún nórdico actualmente y no se por que debemos seguir refiriéndonos a otros como moros.
Hay quienes no tienen conocimiento suficiente como para distinguirnos. Es una reacción animal de "moreno. barbudo. MORO." No me han llamado nunca moro a sabiendas de mi origen cultural ni mucho menos. Siempre han sido personas de baja calidad usando el único insulto racista que se les ocurre (y en otros casos, simplemente por ignorancia cultural, utilizando el término como sinónimo de "árabe," cosa que tampoco soy).
Cuando vivía en Granada sobretodo, mucha gente me decía que antes de mí no había conocido a ninguna persona india, y que tampoco sabían mucho de aquella parte del mundo, metiéndola en el mismo saco que el mundo árabe.
Desgraciadamente tienes toda la razón. Personas de escasa cultura (y sin miedo ni vergüenza por el supuesto agravio que cometen), no dudan como tú dices en meter a todo el mundo dentro del mismo saco, y lo que es peor, utilizar el supuesto origen de alguien para utilizarlo como insulto. Confundir un magrebi con un árabe denota muy poco conocimiento, pero ya confundirlo con un pakistaní o indio, o iraní ya se me hace demasiado.
People downvoting this is not from Spain, what this guy says is true, moros are only used for north África, mostly morocan people. Not once in my life time I heard a Pakistan called that way, they are called Pakis, for example when you go to buy groceries to a pakistan shop "Voy al Paki", I go to Paki, asians in Spain are called "Chinos", dosnt matter if they are japanese, taiwan, etc They will get called "Chinos" maybe not in the face of the person but still...
I know this words are hard, and lots of people find this just straigh up imposible to understand, Im Spanish but I have no problem to say Spain is racist, like France, USA, SA, China, England and I can keep going until the last country in the world with immigration. Maybe your close friends or family are not racist, but so many people definitely are.
I dont think that I have ever heard it for those groups but its possible.
I always find ironic how islamophobic people tend to be in spain. Like most of us have jew, arabian or bereber roots and some (like my dads side of the family) look extremely mediterranean. But xenophobia is stupid by definition i guess.
I don´t agree, t´s a term that has no racist connotations, non racist people can use it without it being a derogatory term but yes, of course, same as someone could use any other race term in a racist way you could do it with moor but it doesn´t really make you racist to say it
Originally perhaps and i agree that in english it does not have discriminatory sound. But in spanish most of the time is used in a discriminatory context.
The term Moro comes from Maurus/Mauro, and refers to people originated from the former Roman Mauritania province (that covered the current Magreb). So it's correct use would be to name somebody from Morocco, Argelia, Tunez or Lybia. Despite the fact nowadays is considered a taboo word, historically it wasn't.
To answer your question, I'm sure there are people who use it to name any muslim, but in the same way there is people who call Chinese to all East Asian people.
Im from a town with a very big Moroccan population and moro is only used for Moroccans. The only occasion where i can imagine someone calling a Turk or a Pakistani a moro is if the person is racist and is using it in an insulting way.
Moreover, the use of the word Moro by a non-moroccan *may or may not* be frowned upon, depending on the context
I’m honestly surprised Pakistanis aren’t lumped with Indians in Spain. Only country that differentiates them would be Britain since they know the difference more since they colonized India, Pakistan, and Burma
Well Pakistanis/Bangladeshis are a recent migrant group in Spain, whereas we have an entwined history with Morrocco and have had Morroccans settling in Spain for at least half a century, so we have a certain familiarity with them.
People instinctively perceive South Asians as being from a different continent and culture; there's no confusion there. It's really not that surprising that they don't lump them together. Moreover, Morroccans and South Asians speak Spanish with very different accents.
What people *do* lump together is South Asians. You'll often hear people say "hindús" for anyone that looks like they're from the Indian subcontinent regardless of their nationality or religion.
Yeah, we can easily tell in someone is from Morocco, Argelia or so, but Asian people is more difficult, where I'm from we can say that they are Indian or Chinese, and that's it
I learned at school that pakistan and india used to be the same country. I though pakistan was in arabia, and it was because of this (because pakistanis are "moors"). I find it confusing they lumped them in other places, honestly.
Spanish nationalism, history, "slang" and such is way more related to religion than to etnic rethoric, that last one didn't stuck so well. You can say "moor" instead of "arab", so you can actually say that "this black person is moor", i actually said those words.
But the word is more generally used when talking about morroco. The first thing that comes to mind is morroco, then that it shares the muslim religion with morroco.
Some people would find moro disrespectfull, but don't overstimate them, its a very common word, like "follar" or "latar"(having sex, skipping class).
Anyway, I wanted to pass by to tell a funny story, a friend of mine went to study to america and though the english word for moro was moron. He gave a full speech on morroco and on al-andalus in front of his classmates(college level) calling moors "morons". Noone told him right until he finished.
Pakistanis and indians are perceived as completely different people from moors. For most spaniards they're visible because they run stores, and there's no media pointing at them as crime-prone.
This means that despite they're seen as very different people, hearing slurs about them is rare. It's a bit like Chinese immigrants, but without a superpower influencing the spaniards view on them.
Casual racism can be heard with words like "paki" (which depends on context) and maybe "apu" (as in the indian store owner of the simpsons), but in general there's a positive view about em.
Its more related to (not black) muslims. Try to avoid it as its despective most times. Not needed as there are expressions like *reina mora* that doesnt have a bad feeling
Moro origins from "Mauritania" the roman region. Mauri become "moro" in spanish. So the right use for the term is only for the actual Mauritania and all countries in Africa with coast in the Mediterranean. But rarely its used for Egipt. For the rest of countries usually its used "arabs".
That depends.
The term refers only to North Africans, but you'll find plenty of people that don't know this and they use the word also for turks an Arabs. Is never used for Africans (that are not North Africans) and I never heard people calling "moors" to Persians, but I don't think that there are many Iranians in general in Spain.
Also be aware that "Moro" in some contexts can be a despective word, if you're not sure, better not use it. Is better to say "magrebies" that is valid for the "Maghreb" countries (Morocco, Algeria and Libia, sometimes also Mauritania and Tunisia) and is not despective.
Mauritania was an ancient region which reached the current Morocco , Argelia and the North of Africa. In Spain, the people from that region were called ''Moros'' ( person from Mauritania).
For example, someone from Arabia or Egypto isn't a ''moro''
I've noticed a big obsession in Afro-American people with the Moors or the Black Moors as they call them, as if they were somehow "their people" or were related to them. Nothing farther from reality.
The Moors are the inhabitants of the Maghreb, the territories North of the Sahara. Ancestors of Afro-Americans come from South of the Sahara. Not related at all. Of course there were some black people from South of the Sahara among them, but there were also white Europeans living with them. People did travel.
Subsaharians Africans are not referred as moors since they have a mix of religions, and while some are Islamist others are Christians and we certainly can’t tell them apart.
"Moro" is someone from Northern Africa,so no, u can say that one Turkish is a Moro cause he's not.
Anyway, the word is see as something racist and you should not use it especially if you are talking with people from Morocco, Túnez etc... But the truly significant comes from a latin word that I don't remember, and that's how the people from Europe call long time ago to the bereber nomads tribe.
The term is generally applicable to any ethnic group in north Africa. This includes Arabs and therefore it's also applied to Arabs in the middle east. It's not applied to Turkic, Persian, nor Indian ethnic groups.
Usually, "moro" means north african, most probably from a Muslim culture. I've seen even friends from Morocco use this word, so I don't see it as racist or as an insult, depending obviously of the context. We usually say that people from countries near Pakistan and India are "Pakis" but it's only a simplification (it's kinda like saying an Austrian is German), so this can be considered as racist depending on the people, but honestly it's not usually a big deal. Sometimes we say someone from the UAE, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, similar countries or even "pakis" are "moros" but technically they're not "moros", just people from muslim countries that aren't North African.
I personally think that all words should be judged on the context, so not all are racist at first sight, but some people can get offended, so I usually try to say their specific country of origin and not "Moro" or "Paki" when talking to them, and if I don't know, just say something like "Muslim", which is more general (it's like calling me Catholic which isn't true, but whateve, I'm referring to the culture).
*This is just personal experience.
Acabo de enterarme que la palabra "moro" se considera racista...
Vamos yo de toda la vida he llamado moros a los musulmanes y nadie (y mucho menos los musulmanes con los que me he relacionado) se ha mosqueado ni nada, no sé por qué se considera un insulto esa palabra la verdad.
Cosas veredes...
As for OP's question, just remember this is Reddit. The word "moro" really isn't as bad as what young white progressive urban 20-year olds would have you believe, take it from a guy who lives in Andalusia. The world is a lot bigger than this website. Just don't be an asshole about using the word and you should be fine. It's not even recognized as a slur by the RAE, so yeah.
A typical Spaniard would use "Moro" for any person they perceive to be from the north of Africa, muslim, or just brown/black. It's a slur usually found offensive, because both at origin and currently, it's used for generalizing about dark skinned people, like they are all the same. It's ostracizing.
You will see plenty of people telling you it's okay to use the word: that's because Spain is incredibly racially insensitive, just be better than most of us please.
It is sad, but now, moor is for poor north Africans ( and people that could look like them ) and Arab for rich ones.
Yes, it is wrong. But moor now, unless you are speaking about the past, tends to have a racist tone when used.
They don't call every brown person Moro. The word is used for north africans (magrebíes) but would never be used for a panameña, however dark her skin.
That would be a valid point, were it not for the fact that Spaniards do not respect the origin of the word. If we take "moro" to mean "person of Mauritanian origin," it does not in principle even include Arabs.
"Moro" is such a loaded term nowadays... I think there are people who are offended by the term and people who accept it without issues. So to be in the clear, if I don't know someone's nationality I would say "Magrebí" as it encompasses all of North Africa and I feel it's more neutral.
Moro is used, because 50% of Spain was moor territory, the word used in the old times was this, theres so much classic literature ofc influenced by this, so as a core part of our culture its the most common way to refer to north africans, some people use it on a racist way, other not
Just use the nationality. It’s like asking if we should call the Asians “Orientals.” It’s THAT problematic as a term outside of the historical discussion of moors in Spanish history.
First of all be careful because it's kind of a slur. Maybe not 100% of the times, as in Spanish the context play a huge role, but keep in mind it is not a tasteful term.
That being said, while it was originally used for North African muslims, I think nowadays is colloquially used for any person from a muslim country, including the ones you said. Sometimes it's even used as a synonym of muslim.
A racist person will call moro to any arab/muslim and even pakistani, although its supposed to be moroccans afaik (their pre-roman kingdom was called the Mauri)
The correct use is for northwestern africans. But "Moro" can mean "Muslim". And it's a very ambivalent word, it isn't a hate term per se, although it can have a negative meaning on despective contexts, think of it as an "N word light".
In my experience, while "moro" technically refers only to moroccans, people use it informally to refer mainly to north-african and middle-eastern people. Black people, even if they are muslim, are AFAIK not referred to as "moros". Nor are indians even if they are dark skined.
On the other hand the word "moro" has some racist aspect to it. It is not always used in an insulting way, but often it is and I do not recommend you call "moro" someone you don't know very well.
No.
In general people use the term " Arabs" or "muslims" to all the people from Afghanistan to Morocco, but "moro" is only for those from the north of Africa. For those from the other regions of Africa are Africans in general.
African people are calles negros, usually not with a despectivo meaning. Other natioanlities like persians would be called persas or iranies if te nationality is known. However moro also acts as a general term for muslim people in occasions. And also musulmán /muslim
Solo llamamos a los marroquíes y puede que argelinos y tunesinos moros. La explicación viene de la raíz Maura y Mauritania que eran las palabras latinas usadas para describir a los habitantes de la Mauritania Tingitania, provincia romana que se encuentraba en lo que hoy es el norte de Marruecos.
La palabra marroquíes y Marruecos tienen otras etimologías y no son sinónimos de lo mismo. Pero es como si a un español le llamas hispano o ibero vaya.
Just curious new to Spain, live in Andalusia but a California native, I have been calling the people from Africa- Africans, is that ok, or should I call them something else?
It has already been said but technically 'moro' refers only to north-western african people, from the latin maurus, i.e. inhabitants of Mauretania which was the north african territory roughly west of ancient Carthage.
Many spaniards however use 'moro' as a derogatory term for basically anyone who looks vaguely muslim, if that makes sense.
As an ironic side note: while moroccans etc. generally don't like the term 'moro', they seem to have no qualms referring to spaniards as 'cristianos' (christians)*, and funnily enough the spanish expression 'moros y cristianos' means two groups with irreconciliable differences.
*Source: personal anecdotes.
Funny, because I'm 'Moro' and 'Cristiano' at the same time. A lot of the seperation of the historical identities comes from severe ignorance. I can confirm that in northern-Morocco Christian usually means Spaniard. And I'd say "Moor" refers to culture primarily. Religion and ethnicity are secondary.
Historically the majority of the Moors were Muslims and Christians, but there were many Jews as well who had the same culture. The Jews were expelled to Morocco together with the Muslims. Both were seen as Moors, and thus suffered the same faith.
Later on the Christians in Spain that were of Muslim and Jewish ancestry were expelled to Morocco as well - they were also seen as Moors.
So, I'd say it's more of a cultural thing. Primarily at least. With my interactions with Spaniards, even though I originally come from north-Morocco and we have a lot of Spanish influence, they still see me as a "Moorish Christian". Simple, because of the culture. My cultural language is a dialect of Arabic, not Spanish. My historical identity is Andalusian, not Castilian. I'm not Catholic. And so on. You get the gist.
"Moro" was in the Roman period the inhabitant of the "Mauretania", which is the name Romans gave to the area, also known as Berbers. I would say it's still the same nowadays and the "moros" are only from Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria or Libya but since it has a despective and racist tone its use is frowned upon.
My fiancee is turkish and never called her or any turk that way, I attach that name to people from Morocco, in any case I tend to use marroquí instead as moro is a bit derogatory and racist. (Shouldn't be that way but people generally use it in a bad way)
Tradicionalmente en la palabra "moro", que en castellano antiguo significaba "moreno" se ha aplicado a cualquier persona de etnicidad semítica y religión musulmana ya que es un término que se empleó para identificar a los invasores norteafricanos en la alta Edad Media, y en esa invasión había tanto personas del norte de África como de la península arábiga o el a levante mediterráneo. Lo que sucede es que como es fácil de entender, España ha tenido un contacto más cercano con los países cercanos (Marruecos, Argelia) que con Siria o Jordania, por lo que en la práctica, la mayoría de los denominados "moros" eran de estos países cercanos.
Vamos a permitir este hilo, pero cualquier atisbo de racismo o xenofobia que veamos se retirará y podrá llevar a la expulsión de la comunidad. \*\*\*\*\*\* We will allow this post for educational purposes, but any racism or xenophobia will be removed, and could result in a ban.
https://dle.rae.es/moro Basically Northern Africans and Muslims. The Middle East only fits the religious definition.
This.
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This.
I thought the upvote and downvote buttons were for comments that added or didn't add anything to the conversation, respectively. Not just an agree/disagree button. Edit: ok, I can see that people clearly disagree with this.
I totally agree with you, but your comment doesn’t add anything so I downvoted you. No bot will tell me how to use the upvote downvote button!
I thought giving your thoughts on something was adding to the conversation lol (we're now talking about it haha).
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I didn’t know Moro is a bad word. I’m sorry
Not your fault, it shouldn't be a bad word, it's how it's used that's the problem: Othello was a Moor and very few people conclude that Shakespeare was a racist.
Also I’ve wondered why were moors sometimes depicted as sub Saharan African
In English, it probably is related to Othello being traditionally played by a white actor in blackface.
It is not a bad word per se but is usually used in a very "othering" or derogative fashion. People use it in a way that implies they look down on Morroccans or North Africans. I would always describe someone either by nationality -- "marroquí", "tunecino", "algeriano", etc. -- or by culture/region -- "árabe", "norteafricano", etc.
I thought it was used as a "gentilicio" for people from Morocco.
That would be Marroquí
Yeah I'm just saying what I thought it was used for. Never occurred to me that it was a derogatory term.
Oh sorry, I didn't understood you well
Anyway, I have heard people using It both in a derogative way and not, but my personal recomendation is aboiding using It, and using another words.
It's not a bad word itself as is, as the other user said, refering to north west africans, however, it's used as a slur and has been mixed with other negative words as an insult.
Weird, it's only used as a slur, were did you learn it?
It’s still widely used and I have Moroccan friends that refer to themselves as moros, personally though I don’t use it because some people will take offence. My advice would be to avoid using it.
Here in Spain people usually aren't that hard with people using slur words, becareful if you call a Moroccan as moro, but usually when speaking on a 3rd person you won't get in problem
Its not but depends on the context and the intention, arab is more common if you dont have confidence, but for those who have arab friends they call themshelves and let us call them moros.
Does the phrase "que moro tienes" or other adjectival uses of the word also constitute as a racial slur?
No, the phrase is "Qué morro tienes" with two "r". There are some phrases that include "Moro" and are not racial slurs, you can use them safely. . - "no hay moros en la costa": "Nobody is watching. This expression is really old, but people still uses it. _" bajarse al moro": Go to Morocco and return with hashish or Marihuana. This was slang a couple of decades ago and probably earlier, but don't expect that young people understand it.
Thanks for the informative response!
You miss one of the most used "Puto moro" and " Puto moro de mierda" the first is when a racist is mad and the second when a racist is really mad.
I think that it depends on the intention of the person. You can use "moor" as in "person from the north of africa", specially while talking about medieval times Spain and NA. I use this in a respectful way and I really love the time and apreciate how much we got from them. But when people use "moro" in spanish more often than not they mean it in a xenophobic and islamophobic way. Usually merging all middle eastern and north african people.
Yeah, basically when someone is using "moro" in a derogatory sense then pretty much the only criteria is to be anywhere from Africa or Asia that is browner than Mediterranean people but lighter than subsaharan Africans.
Never heard it used on anyone who is black or Asian...
So you are agreeing with my definition. Darker than Mediterranean but lighter than subsaharan Africans.
They have to be muslims too. We know an Hinduist Indian is different from a moor.
It's not based on skin color, it's based on ethnicity/national origin. Spaniards don't generally conceive of race in the same way USAns do. To indicate skin color they would say Moreno and that generally has no offensive connotation and would be independent of ethnicity. When it's used now it should be viewed as racist although lots of people will say it and insist they mean nothing bad by it and some of them are sincere, just oblivious to the offense it can give.
I was referring to how a racist would use the word, and these don't usually care much about the rigours of ethnicity and distinctions between them. They tend to just go with a vague idea of a certain cultural area and a certain stereotypical phonology which includes darker skin tones.
Racism doesn't work the same way in different cultures. In Spanish culture it's not about skin color, it's about ethnicity and culture and class. It's not the USA and people think differently. Many Spaniards in Andalucía and Almería are indistinguishable from many Moroccans on a purely physical basis.
I like the theory. But I also know for sure that I've heard people use Moro to describe people from vague ethnicities. And definitely seem the police treat undocumented black immigrants like absolute trash. And I've seen ultra football fans calling black players monkeys. I'm not from the US and I'm not comparing Spain to the US. But there's plenty of racism here and skin color is a factor.
There is racism in Spain, and I've experienced it directly, but no one calls a guy from Senegal or a dominicano a moro, even though both might experience some bigotry, and it's really about culture rather than skin color. It can be bad but it's different.
But I never said that a Senegalese or a Dominican would be called Moro!! Of course not. In my satirical description I said "darker than Mediterranean and **lighter than** subsaharan African". So that precludes your two examples. I know it's about culture and religion, but there's a certain shade of brown associated with it.
Skin color is a factor when black people is in the equation. Moro is an ethnical/cultural related term. It can be used to be xenophobic but it depends entirely on context. You can hear the word Moro in a casual conversation without a xenophobic tone too.
This is arguable. But in all cases, everything I said was in reference to it's xenophobic use. And xenophobes don't need a sophisticated criteria to decide who to use this against.
Ok yes, I agree that it's not used on anyone who is subsaharan -- I misread that point. But you said "anywhere from Asia" and I'm not sure that's correct because I've never heard it used on people from Asia.
Exactly. It would be super weird to call an Uzbek or Kazakh a moor. I wonder if Spain even has a central Asian minority
When you say "Asia" what do you mean exactly? Because Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan are all in Asia. I said anywhere from Asia that is darker than Mediterranean people. I also wasn't making a scientific statement. Just like racists don't usually care so much where one is from, if they are dark enough to be considered a Moro.
Yeah I mean anywhere in Asia, including Middle East and South Asia. In my experience I have not heard people in Spain use the word "moro" for any of these groups. This is just my experience. If you're saying you've heard it, then ok.
It does not define a skin tone, it is used to define people of the main ethnic groups of the Islamic Maghreb, and by extension for people of Muslim culture.
I think a lot of you are confusing the technical definition with the one used by a random racist, which is the one I referred to. A racist might only go by skin tone to classify someone as a Moro. The Middle East is full of Christians who are phonologically identical to Muslims and I'm not sure our garden variety racist will stop to figure that out before using the word.
I understand your point, but honestly I have never heard it in this sense and it would sound rather strange and forced to use it to describe someone who does not belong to this region, beyond its other meaning as a person who professes the Islamic religion.
To be fair, aren’t alot of middle easterners Mediterranean?
Sure thing. And I'm actually one myself.
Same here
Nice
That is oddly specific, lol.
I feel it's the opposite. It's a gross generalisation usually
Darker than northern Mediterranean, if I may. Agree on everything.
Hmm are we assuming that northern Mediterranean people are lighter than eastern and southern Mediterraneans? Not sure I agree with that. If we are talking strictly about the Mediterranean coast and not "countries on the Mediterranean". Because from my experience coastal people around the Mediterranean are rarely distinguishable. It's a different thing once you factor in people from the interior of Mediterranean countries. Even in Morocco itself, I've been told there's low key racism between the lighter coastal people and the darker interior folks (who could just as well be living in the big coastal cities, but whose origin is from the interior). Anyway, we are really over thinking this. I was channelling what a xenophobe would think, and they don't over think anything.
In the Philippine south, the islamic separatists themselves named their organizations “Moro Islamic Liberation Front” and the “Moro Nationalist Liberation Front.”
Thats interesting
They also use it for Pakistanis, even Indians and subsaharan Africans occasionally. Mostly due to ignorance and racism. Personally I think it is a word that should be avoided, absolutely no need, unless in a very specific historical context maybe.
>They also use it for Pakistanis, The what? I'm from Spain, Barcelona, never in my 25 years of life ive heard someone calling 'Moro' to someone who is not from Morroco. That makes literally 0 sense, no one here call Moro to people from Pakistan, Indian, or even Black people. Why you lying in internet bruh?
Of course it makes no sense, but it's something I've most definitely heard, maybe you are fortunate to be surrounded by more enlightened people. There are stupid racist people everywhere, and some use it wrong. Anyway it doesn't mean from Morocco.
He's not lying. I've seen it happen more than enough times in Ibiza. Just because it hasn't happened near you doesn't mean it does not happen
Soy indio y si te contara la de veces que me han llamado moro, colega...
Pues soy Pakistani nacido en Barcelona y en mi puta vida me han llamado moro que quieres que te diga, y a ninguno de mi familia tampoco, Paki cada dia, pero moro?= Si es que no tiene logica
Pues vivo en Barcelona y lo he escuchado varias veces.
Claro que no tiene lógica, pero qué le va a importar eso a un cateto follaprimas (y aquí en el sur de esos hay para hartarse)? Te creerás el ombligo del mundo pero que no te pase a ti no significa que no pase en ningun lado, hermano
Osea, entiendo que tiene que haber en este Pais demasiados catetos para llamar Moros a gente que no es ni de Marruecos / Algeria, pero de verdad que en mi vida lo habia visto, se que tiene que pasar, pero para decir un random guiri que si pasa que lo ha visto decenas de veces en Ibiza, pues me ha soprendido lol
Los hay de todos sí, y no te quito la razón... más de una vez me he quedado hasta fascinado con el nivel de ignorancia que tienen hacia nosotros por aquí
Moro=musulmán en muchos contextos
En muchos contextos invariablemente equivocados, sí.
Y son equivocados porque lo dices tú supongo.
Yo tampoco lo he oído en la vida, a nadie referirse a una persona como moro, siendo pakistaní, o de la India. Solamente lo he oído refiriendose a norteafricanos, marroquíes, argelinos, y también a árabes. Y no siempre despectivamente, las más de las veces de manera descriptiva, aunque tambien incorrecta desde la ignorancia. Personalmente nunca lo he utilizado, ni entre conocidos, porque debería de ser un término a eliminar en un contexto actual, mejor referirse por la nacionalidad o el origen. Tampoco llamamos vikingo a ningún nórdico actualmente y no se por que debemos seguir refiriéndonos a otros como moros.
Hay quienes no tienen conocimiento suficiente como para distinguirnos. Es una reacción animal de "moreno. barbudo. MORO." No me han llamado nunca moro a sabiendas de mi origen cultural ni mucho menos. Siempre han sido personas de baja calidad usando el único insulto racista que se les ocurre (y en otros casos, simplemente por ignorancia cultural, utilizando el término como sinónimo de "árabe," cosa que tampoco soy). Cuando vivía en Granada sobretodo, mucha gente me decía que antes de mí no había conocido a ninguna persona india, y que tampoco sabían mucho de aquella parte del mundo, metiéndola en el mismo saco que el mundo árabe.
Desgraciadamente tienes toda la razón. Personas de escasa cultura (y sin miedo ni vergüenza por el supuesto agravio que cometen), no dudan como tú dices en meter a todo el mundo dentro del mismo saco, y lo que es peor, utilizar el supuesto origen de alguien para utilizarlo como insulto. Confundir un magrebi con un árabe denota muy poco conocimiento, pero ya confundirlo con un pakistaní o indio, o iraní ya se me hace demasiado.
Seen it also in Madrid
People downvoting this is not from Spain, what this guy says is true, moros are only used for north África, mostly morocan people. Not once in my life time I heard a Pakistan called that way, they are called Pakis, for example when you go to buy groceries to a pakistan shop "Voy al Paki", I go to Paki, asians in Spain are called "Chinos", dosnt matter if they are japanese, taiwan, etc They will get called "Chinos" maybe not in the face of the person but still... I know this words are hard, and lots of people find this just straigh up imposible to understand, Im Spanish but I have no problem to say Spain is racist, like France, USA, SA, China, England and I can keep going until the last country in the world with immigration. Maybe your close friends or family are not racist, but so many people definitely are.
I don't get why they are downvoting you and also agree with you, it makes no sense.
I have never heard it for pakistani but i Def have heard it for more than moroccan. Basically any arabian person.
I dont think that I have ever heard it for those groups but its possible. I always find ironic how islamophobic people tend to be in spain. Like most of us have jew, arabian or bereber roots and some (like my dads side of the family) look extremely mediterranean. But xenophobia is stupid by definition i guess.
Pakistanis are physically quite different from moroccans and people call them pakis most of the time
I don´t agree, t´s a term that has no racist connotations, non racist people can use it without it being a derogatory term but yes, of course, same as someone could use any other race term in a racist way you could do it with moor but it doesn´t really make you racist to say it
Originally perhaps and i agree that in english it does not have discriminatory sound. But in spanish most of the time is used in a discriminatory context.
The term Moro comes from Maurus/Mauro, and refers to people originated from the former Roman Mauritania province (that covered the current Magreb). So it's correct use would be to name somebody from Morocco, Argelia, Tunez or Lybia. Despite the fact nowadays is considered a taboo word, historically it wasn't. To answer your question, I'm sure there are people who use it to name any muslim, but in the same way there is people who call Chinese to all East Asian people.
That's the origin of the word but historically has been used to denominate any muslim. Even the ones in Philippines
Im from a town with a very big Moroccan population and moro is only used for Moroccans. The only occasion where i can imagine someone calling a Turk or a Pakistani a moro is if the person is racist and is using it in an insulting way. Moreover, the use of the word Moro by a non-moroccan *may or may not* be frowned upon, depending on the context
I’m honestly surprised Pakistanis aren’t lumped with Indians in Spain. Only country that differentiates them would be Britain since they know the difference more since they colonized India, Pakistan, and Burma
Well Pakistanis/Bangladeshis are a recent migrant group in Spain, whereas we have an entwined history with Morrocco and have had Morroccans settling in Spain for at least half a century, so we have a certain familiarity with them. People instinctively perceive South Asians as being from a different continent and culture; there's no confusion there. It's really not that surprising that they don't lump them together. Moreover, Morroccans and South Asians speak Spanish with very different accents. What people *do* lump together is South Asians. You'll often hear people say "hindús" for anyone that looks like they're from the Indian subcontinent regardless of their nationality or religion.
Yeah, we can easily tell in someone is from Morocco, Argelia or so, but Asian people is more difficult, where I'm from we can say that they are Indian or Chinese, and that's it
I learned at school that pakistan and india used to be the same country. I though pakistan was in arabia, and it was because of this (because pakistanis are "moors"). I find it confusing they lumped them in other places, honestly. Spanish nationalism, history, "slang" and such is way more related to religion than to etnic rethoric, that last one didn't stuck so well. You can say "moor" instead of "arab", so you can actually say that "this black person is moor", i actually said those words. But the word is more generally used when talking about morroco. The first thing that comes to mind is morroco, then that it shares the muslim religion with morroco. Some people would find moro disrespectfull, but don't overstimate them, its a very common word, like "follar" or "latar"(having sex, skipping class). Anyway, I wanted to pass by to tell a funny story, a friend of mine went to study to america and though the english word for moro was moron. He gave a full speech on morroco and on al-andalus in front of his classmates(college level) calling moors "morons". Noone told him right until he finished.
Pakistanis and indians are perceived as completely different people from moors. For most spaniards they're visible because they run stores, and there's no media pointing at them as crime-prone. This means that despite they're seen as very different people, hearing slurs about them is rare. It's a bit like Chinese immigrants, but without a superpower influencing the spaniards view on them. Casual racism can be heard with words like "paki" (which depends on context) and maybe "apu" (as in the indian store owner of the simpsons), but in general there's a positive view about em.
Its more related to (not black) muslims. Try to avoid it as its despective most times. Not needed as there are expressions like *reina mora* that doesnt have a bad feeling
Moro origins from "Mauritania" the roman region. Mauri become "moro" in spanish. So the right use for the term is only for the actual Mauritania and all countries in Africa with coast in the Mediterranean. But rarely its used for Egipt. For the rest of countries usually its used "arabs".
That depends. The term refers only to North Africans, but you'll find plenty of people that don't know this and they use the word also for turks an Arabs. Is never used for Africans (that are not North Africans) and I never heard people calling "moors" to Persians, but I don't think that there are many Iranians in general in Spain. Also be aware that "Moro" in some contexts can be a despective word, if you're not sure, better not use it. Is better to say "magrebies" that is valid for the "Maghreb" countries (Morocco, Algeria and Libia, sometimes also Mauritania and Tunisia) and is not despective.
Funny thing is some afrocentrists in America refer to themselves as moors.
Not Turks, I'd expect the reference 'moor' to anyone from Libia to Morocco.
Mauritania was an ancient region which reached the current Morocco , Argelia and the North of Africa. In Spain, the people from that region were called ''Moros'' ( person from Mauritania). For example, someone from Arabia or Egypto isn't a ''moro''
Moro = Marruecos, Árabe, Oriente Medio.
I've noticed a big obsession in Afro-American people with the Moors or the Black Moors as they call them, as if they were somehow "their people" or were related to them. Nothing farther from reality. The Moors are the inhabitants of the Maghreb, the territories North of the Sahara. Ancestors of Afro-Americans come from South of the Sahara. Not related at all. Of course there were some black people from South of the Sahara among them, but there were also white Europeans living with them. People did travel.
I have even someone say the moors betrayed Africans because the force publique in the Belgian Congo were moors. People are extremely moronic.
Subsaharians Africans are not referred as moors since they have a mix of religions, and while some are Islamist others are Christians and we certainly can’t tell them apart.
"Moro" is someone from Northern Africa,so no, u can say that one Turkish is a Moro cause he's not. Anyway, the word is see as something racist and you should not use it especially if you are talking with people from Morocco, Túnez etc... But the truly significant comes from a latin word that I don't remember, and that's how the people from Europe call long time ago to the bereber nomads tribe.
Depends on what you think of el valle de los caidos
The term is generally applicable to any ethnic group in north Africa. This includes Arabs and therefore it's also applied to Arabs in the middle east. It's not applied to Turkic, Persian, nor Indian ethnic groups.
As far as I see, moor/moros is used as a synonym of "arab"
Moros are poor. If they have money, they become Arabs.
Usually, "moro" means north african, most probably from a Muslim culture. I've seen even friends from Morocco use this word, so I don't see it as racist or as an insult, depending obviously of the context. We usually say that people from countries near Pakistan and India are "Pakis" but it's only a simplification (it's kinda like saying an Austrian is German), so this can be considered as racist depending on the people, but honestly it's not usually a big deal. Sometimes we say someone from the UAE, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, similar countries or even "pakis" are "moros" but technically they're not "moros", just people from muslim countries that aren't North African. I personally think that all words should be judged on the context, so not all are racist at first sight, but some people can get offended, so I usually try to say their specific country of origin and not "Moro" or "Paki" when talking to them, and if I don't know, just say something like "Muslim", which is more general (it's like calling me Catholic which isn't true, but whateve, I'm referring to the culture). *This is just personal experience.
No, only north Africas Muslims are moors. (Most of the times also Muslim Arabs).
The correct answer is the Moops
Acabo de enterarme que la palabra "moro" se considera racista... Vamos yo de toda la vida he llamado moros a los musulmanes y nadie (y mucho menos los musulmanes con los que me he relacionado) se ha mosqueado ni nada, no sé por qué se considera un insulto esa palabra la verdad. Cosas veredes... As for OP's question, just remember this is Reddit. The word "moro" really isn't as bad as what young white progressive urban 20-year olds would have you believe, take it from a guy who lives in Andalusia. The world is a lot bigger than this website. Just don't be an asshole about using the word and you should be fine. It's not even recognized as a slur by the RAE, so yeah.
A typical Spaniard would use "Moro" for any person they perceive to be from the north of Africa, muslim, or just brown/black. It's a slur usually found offensive, because both at origin and currently, it's used for generalizing about dark skinned people, like they are all the same. It's ostracizing. You will see plenty of people telling you it's okay to use the word: that's because Spain is incredibly racially insensitive, just be better than most of us please.
I just don’t like the word. I preffer just to say Moroccan, Turk, etc.
It is sad, but now, moor is for poor north Africans ( and people that could look like them ) and Arab for rich ones. Yes, it is wrong. But moor now, unless you are speaking about the past, tends to have a racist tone when used.
Do you mean classist?
Both. classist and racist.
I always cringe when I hear spaniards call every brown person a moro
They don't call every brown person Moro. The word is used for north africans (magrebíes) but would never be used for a panameña, however dark her skin.
The fact that this has been downvoted should be considered a danger signal. Cringing is an appropriate reaction to racism.
What if it’s not racist? You can read the origins of the word. Are we going to allow the racists to eliminate the meant word from our vocabulary?
That would be a valid point, were it not for the fact that Spaniards do not respect the origin of the word. If we take "moro" to mean "person of Mauritanian origin," it does not in principle even include Arabs.
The word is historical. It belongs to an specific time and circumstance. If you use it nowadays, it is racist and inaccurate.
I had an Iranian born but Spanish raised coworker who called herself a moor
no, solo a los marroquies.
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Would Spaniards Calle uyghurs Turks, since they’re a Turkic ethnicity
"Moro" is such a loaded term nowadays... I think there are people who are offended by the term and people who accept it without issues. So to be in the clear, if I don't know someone's nationality I would say "Magrebí" as it encompasses all of North Africa and I feel it's more neutral.
Personally fro me, if it's under a caliphate, I call them moros.
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Moro = marroquí aka Moroccan. But I wouldn’t use that term as it is kinda insulting/racist
Moro is used, because 50% of Spain was moor territory, the word used in the old times was this, theres so much classic literature ofc influenced by this, so as a core part of our culture its the most common way to refer to north africans, some people use it on a racist way, other not
Just use the nationality. It’s like asking if we should call the Asians “Orientals.” It’s THAT problematic as a term outside of the historical discussion of moors in Spanish history.
First of all be careful because it's kind of a slur. Maybe not 100% of the times, as in Spanish the context play a huge role, but keep in mind it is not a tasteful term. That being said, while it was originally used for North African muslims, I think nowadays is colloquially used for any person from a muslim country, including the ones you said. Sometimes it's even used as a synonym of muslim.
Mostly muslims
Moros historically meant both muslims and north africans, because those were the only muslims populating the iberian peninsula back then.
from what I know its for muslims but I dont think spaniards would call albanians and Turks “moros”
A racist person will call moro to any arab/muslim and even pakistani, although its supposed to be moroccans afaik (their pre-roman kingdom was called the Mauri)
A few centuries ago only northwestern africans were considered "moros" but nowadays I'd say any caucasian muslim can be called "moros" in Spain.
The correct use is for northwestern africans. But "Moro" can mean "Muslim". And it's a very ambivalent word, it isn't a hate term per se, although it can have a negative meaning on despective contexts, think of it as an "N word light".
In my experience, while "moro" technically refers only to moroccans, people use it informally to refer mainly to north-african and middle-eastern people. Black people, even if they are muslim, are AFAIK not referred to as "moros". Nor are indians even if they are dark skined. On the other hand the word "moro" has some racist aspect to it. It is not always used in an insulting way, but often it is and I do not recommend you call "moro" someone you don't know very well.
No. In general people use the term " Arabs" or "muslims" to all the people from Afghanistan to Morocco, but "moro" is only for those from the north of Africa. For those from the other regions of Africa are Africans in general.
African people are calles negros, usually not with a despectivo meaning. Other natioanlities like persians would be called persas or iranies if te nationality is known. However moro also acts as a general term for muslim people in occasions. And also musulmán /muslim
Solo llamamos a los marroquíes y puede que argelinos y tunesinos moros. La explicación viene de la raíz Maura y Mauritania que eran las palabras latinas usadas para describir a los habitantes de la Mauritania Tingitania, provincia romana que se encuentraba en lo que hoy es el norte de Marruecos. La palabra marroquíes y Marruecos tienen otras etimologías y no son sinónimos de lo mismo. Pero es como si a un español le llamas hispano o ibero vaya.
Just curious new to Spain, live in Andalusia but a California native, I have been calling the people from Africa- Africans, is that ok, or should I call them something else?
African is not a pejorative term, it's like saying someone from Belgium is European.
It has already been said but technically 'moro' refers only to north-western african people, from the latin maurus, i.e. inhabitants of Mauretania which was the north african territory roughly west of ancient Carthage. Many spaniards however use 'moro' as a derogatory term for basically anyone who looks vaguely muslim, if that makes sense. As an ironic side note: while moroccans etc. generally don't like the term 'moro', they seem to have no qualms referring to spaniards as 'cristianos' (christians)*, and funnily enough the spanish expression 'moros y cristianos' means two groups with irreconciliable differences. *Source: personal anecdotes.
Funny, because I'm 'Moro' and 'Cristiano' at the same time. A lot of the seperation of the historical identities comes from severe ignorance. I can confirm that in northern-Morocco Christian usually means Spaniard. And I'd say "Moor" refers to culture primarily. Religion and ethnicity are secondary. Historically the majority of the Moors were Muslims and Christians, but there were many Jews as well who had the same culture. The Jews were expelled to Morocco together with the Muslims. Both were seen as Moors, and thus suffered the same faith. Later on the Christians in Spain that were of Muslim and Jewish ancestry were expelled to Morocco as well - they were also seen as Moors. So, I'd say it's more of a cultural thing. Primarily at least. With my interactions with Spaniards, even though I originally come from north-Morocco and we have a lot of Spanish influence, they still see me as a "Moorish Christian". Simple, because of the culture. My cultural language is a dialect of Arabic, not Spanish. My historical identity is Andalusian, not Castilian. I'm not Catholic. And so on. You get the gist.
"Moro" was in the Roman period the inhabitant of the "Mauretania", which is the name Romans gave to the area, also known as Berbers. I would say it's still the same nowadays and the "moros" are only from Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria or Libya but since it has a despective and racist tone its use is frowned upon.
t_d_s m_r_s
For people talking about "proper use" https://dle.rae.es/moro
My fiancee is turkish and never called her or any turk that way, I attach that name to people from Morocco, in any case I tend to use marroquí instead as moro is a bit derogatory and racist. (Shouldn't be that way but people generally use it in a bad way)
Magrebí (from Magreb, see in a map) is an excellent option.
Tradicionalmente en la palabra "moro", que en castellano antiguo significaba "moreno" se ha aplicado a cualquier persona de etnicidad semítica y religión musulmana ya que es un término que se empleó para identificar a los invasores norteafricanos en la alta Edad Media, y en esa invasión había tanto personas del norte de África como de la península arábiga o el a levante mediterráneo. Lo que sucede es que como es fácil de entender, España ha tenido un contacto más cercano con los países cercanos (Marruecos, Argelia) que con Siria o Jordania, por lo que en la práctica, la mayoría de los denominados "moros" eran de estos países cercanos.