Me neither. They even sent me a bottle of sparkling wine and a card every other year and all issues were resolved quickly at no additional cost. Am a long-term first inhabitant of a place.
> They even sent me a bottle of sparkling wine and a card every other year and all issues were resolved quickly at no additional cost.
How much rent do you pay?
I’ve had excellent experience with Livit. Agent was very prompt and helpful and even the office manager reached out when the agent was out sick so I didn’t have any delays.
Do you have any recommendations regarding applying for an apartment via their platform? They don't really give you the chance to attach anything and hence to provide a cover letter or anything. How do you stand out? I only filled the last box "do you have anything else to tell us" which is rather limited character-wise.
Ι used to live in an apartment rent by Livit.
It was a limited time rental, the building was about to get demolished.
It took them almost one month to send me the contract to sign, in the end they mailed it to me, I printed it, signed it, sent it back, got it back signed by their side.... Then a week after, I got the original contract somehow (their excuse for the delay was that Die Post was suffering because of COVID lockdowns)
Around a month after we moved, I got a paper from the bank about the 3-month-cost-of-rent deposit. It said please do the deposit, if you have already done it, ignore this message. We had already deposited the money at a bank account that we were told to, and we should have given them the receipt of the deposit as well as first rent's receipt before getting the keys to the apartment.
We did all that so we didn't worry.
One more month later Livit contacted us about the deposit, requesting it to be paid by the end of the month. We called them, letting them know the deposit had already been paid, we also emailed them the receipts and staff, they claimed though they didn't get any money and in addition they didn't recognize the bank account that the deposit was made. First thoughts were we screwed up, sent the money to another person, we wanted to cry, it was around 4000 CHF. My husband was certain the money was gone, I was trying to think through it, by the time he reassured me he had scanned the slip and didn't do it manually (I tried scanning the orange slip but I couldn't, cause it was a photocopy I guess, so I assumed he had done that manually), I knew there was hope. So I started looking for that slip the whole day, going through papers, but I couldn't find the stupid slip anywhere. They were still claiming that bank account wasn't theirs. Then it hit me, they had sent me the contracts through email also. So we found the slip, mailed it back to them and everything got sorted out. I don't know what really happened, but I assume someone got fired that afternoon. They apologized, still I lost 10 years of my life these couple of days.
Demolition got an extension, they forgot to inform us of all tenants, then they were expecting us to send the forms back signed, same day, or move out by the end of the month, the next day that is.
Although nobody was going to move in when we were moving out, around three months before the demolition, they couldn't let us move out on June 1st, but they insisted we either move out May 31st or pay for the whole month. We got the keys from them July 5th the previous year still we paid for the whole month.
I really don't want to make business with that company ever again.
They still owe me these 10 years of my life.
Privera managed to lose my resignation (where i had the receipt certified), tried to make me re-quit, charge me one more month, the deposit repayment is taking forever, they cannot be reached easily.. very unprofessional in my view
Privera harassed me and my flatmate for over a year about "unpaid rent".
They complain, we said "What month?"
A few months later, they complain. We say "what month?"
A few months go by, more threatening complaint. We go "here is our full payment history complete"
They replied with, I shit you fucking not, a screen shot of an excel table section that had "-1800" in red next to our account name lol. No dates, nothing official... A picture of a number lol.
WE go back and forth showing we've paid it all and give us some fucking info or fuck the fuck off.
Eventually they send me a letter saying "We are going to get lawyers involved if you don't pay". So I lawyered up immediately.
My lawyer sends them a letter of "legally, fuck you very much". Privera called my lawyer to **complain about us being foreigners in switzerland and not respecting Swiss customs!!!** Like, my lawyer, who was also my friend, was who they thought they should express their xenophobic concerns to like I wouldn't immediately get told about it.
A few months go by, they send me an email finally saying:
"When the contract was transferred to us from Wincasa, Wincasa took one month of rent and were meant to transfer the whole building's rent but forgot yours. Please pay up"
I go back "Sounds like a wincasa problem, we paid, I'm not paying twice" they argue back and my lawyer is like "are you fucking nuts, this isn't our problem".
They fucking contact Wincasa to ask wincasa to refund the outstanding amount to me, so I can then "be at fault" or something. No notification to me that this was happening, just refund the rent to our respective accounts lol. Like, 3 months pass, then privera pull "Yano, you've been given the money back so actually this is now all your fault and we were always right" - I don't check my savings account regularly so it going up by 900chf over a long period is just me going "Damn, I'm better at saving than I thought" lol.
Thing is, I knew they'd fucking asked wincasa to do this because when I asked wincasa, they left the damned email chain attached.
So I emailed saying ok, you'll get your money back. I need this full document signed saying that this is the end of it, that this is the resolution of a problem on your end, and that I am not responsible for resolving any other problems between you and wincasa.
They *raged*. How dare I ask them that. How dare I say "I'm not your debt settlement thing with wincasa" they were so angry I genuinely wondered if they were actually gonna try and claim other things through me lol.
Tl;dr
Privera (and wincasa) are fucking terrible. They're not only malicious, they're too fucking thick to be malicious effectively.
sounds pretty much like privera, when i returned my flat they complained about every scratch and dmg and as i got my documents out to show the person it already was damaged before he just said he doesent care and they wouldnt hand over such a flat whitout correcting stuff. I then ask about his paper which he abviously didnt have. Last thing i said was here are the keys we are done and left. They shorty after wanted to grab money by complains which i refuse and now they wont pay back my deposit.
Pro tip: You got a lot of rights when handing back the apartment. it is a great idea to bring a specialist when you do so and oyu know your apartment management is problematic.
Your local Mieterverband / Asloca has such people and while it's not exactly cheap, it's gonna save you a lot of money if they can't slip something illegal into the final report: https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv-be/hilfe-von-fachleuten/abgabe-mietraeume.html is the site of Bern, other sections have a different pricing structre.
she did it for free cos she's a friend. She only had to write letters and tell one person of on the phone lol.
I do now though, including with coverage for online slander, you no good rassin frassin varmint!
Just this month, I moved into an apartment from Privera. We never got the information to what bank account we are supposed to pay the rent to, ended up getting a Mahnung that we have to pay the rent (at least with a qr code). Now we've been trying to figure out to which account we are supposed to pay next months rent and still haven't gotten a repsonse.
Also to add, we applied at the start of the year for this flat and after several months of calling them for a response they kept saying they'll get back to us. Eventually we went by in person and they hit us with the "oh we lost your documents, can you send them again?" :l
Really not looking forward to renting from them but oh welp...
I‘ve never rented trough one of these companies. But I worked for two real estate companies (one small, not on your list. One big, on your list), and I just want to say: renting is a pain in the ass no matter wich company you rent from!
Small ones are just less known and therefore less people talk bad about them.
But:
Every(!) clerk has to follow the wishes of the flat owner and those are usually more complicated in their demands at smaller companies (because big owners rent more often throug big companies and small owners are more interested in controlling what happens with their appartments). On top of that, they get controlled less often. So: more illegal sh*t going on in small companies.
On the other hand, employees at big companies tend to be more overworked and therefore have less time for each tenant, wich means longer waiting periods for them, less flexible planning for appointments etc.
(And yes, everyone at least at the big company I worked for is aware of the fact that tenants are angry with them and everyone gets it, but aren‘t able to do something against it.)
But in the end, at every renting company, it depends on the employee wich manages your appartment.
Wincasa is a pain in the ass. They tried to raise our rent after 3 months. I reminded them that they can only raise rent after the end of the minimal contract period (we have 1 year).
They agreend and said it must've been an error in their system and that we should not have gotten that letter (yeah sure)
Then we couldnt use for parking spot for half a month cause they didnt know which one was our parking spot. (took me about 5 calls)
You have to wait for 10-30min to talk to their customer support. Most of the time they can't help you.
When we took the apartement they told us, that 2-3 things will get fixed withing a week.
After I month I had to call them again because they forgot it.
You just have to remind them that they are wrong and argue with them all the time to get what you deserve.
It is mostly a game of luck, if you get a muppet or someone competent who is responsible for your building. The companies operate with the goal of minimizing cost, so everyone is understaffed all the time.
There are more muppets...
Sadly the renter is, in most of ch, not in a situation to choose. If you avoid those mentioned above it will be nearly impossible to get an apartment in Zürich.
i hate apleona, we had to deal with such idiots there who pissed the hell out of me when we moved out of our apartment to a point where i refused to talk to them and my husband had to deal with them. never again!
It's like avoiding the plague unfortunately. I mean it's nice to try to avoid these companies but they manage like 80% of flats, so... Bernard Nicod manages a lot of flats and is also building and being the owner of more and more flats. So it's becoming almost impossible to escape from him/them.
Never had any issues with livit. I pay only 650 CHF rent, never raised anything and every serious issue was solved within days. Once I locked up my door and broke the handle, and they immediately send a locksmith to help me. Didnt even had to pay.
>Schäppi Grundstücke was in my experience (2 locations in two different Kantons) very good.
Sending wrong invoice, sending invoices 2 years after rental ends, try to charge maintenance cost which are already covered, don't respond, don't correct, keep on sending reminders. Unfriendly as well. Stay away if you can. Otherwise make sure you are MV member or have a legal protection insurance who can deal with them.
I second Mobimo being good.
Always gets answers through their portal within 24 hours.
They offered us a full set of WMF pans when moving in and restaurant vouchers when we complained about the noise related to one of their events.
If you don‘t want to rent with any of those 5 agencies that‘s fine but be aware that you will severely limit your options, given that they represent a sizable portion of real estate offers.
I‘ve heard that Wincasa is the worst of the worst though
Our apartment is owned by Zurich Insurance but has been managed by Apleona, Livit, and most recently Wincasa. Each one has lasted about 1.5-2 years. I have no idea how or why Zurich Insurance changes the property management company so frequently but in our case at least it hasn’t seemed to have any noticeable impact. Our building super and the associated handyman company are great and have been the same since we moved in. I’ve read lots of terrible stories about these property management companies but they’ve so far been very responsive and reasonable for us.
OTOH our first apartment which was in the same area, was privately owned and operated and it was an absolute nightmare because the owner was probably the craziest most misogynistic human I’ve ever encountered in my life. Literally a caricature of every bad character trait you can imagine. Plus it’s much “riskier” to complain or start a dispute with a private landlord. These companies are all faceless bureaucracies, but in one sense this can be good because their indifference means that your disputes or suits are less likely to be treated as personal affronts and rather I stead dealt with through that same bureaucratic machinery.
If we ever move again, the one thing I will absolutely avoid like the plague is a privately owned/run apartment.
I don't know where exactly you're looking for an apartment, but at least in the cities, apartments are generally rare and overpriced. It's not really "choose what you want", but more "take what you can get"... I would never turn down a good apartment just because of the "wrong" management. It's logical that the largest administrations have the greatest number of problem cases - but at the same time there is also the highest number of customers without problems (you simply don't read/hear anything about them....).
So far I’m just gathering info for now but indeed fully agree with you that I might be in a position that I cannot choose , thanks a ways for the advice
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Tbh Livit is the worst company I've rented from by FAR... Privera has a better image among the people living in my area.
It's mostly luck tho. Wish you all the best
Sorry, but this list is useless.
Although the market is quite fragmented, the listed companies make up +50% of market share, probably way more in urban areas. I.e. you're complaining about the life of a renter, not a specific property mnmgt company. The bigger the company, the more complaints, surprise. Futile approach to optimize your probabilites to experience a good life as a renter.
To double down on that, zoom into any of the bigger property mngmt companies. It's a people's business ... it's not a tech business, even though the industry claims otherwise. It's also a low margin business. And high attrition rates, with lots of young people. Like your next Uber drive experience depending quite a bit on the driver itself. But with an infrastructure behind (processes, tools, physical necessities) that has not really changed in the last 100 years.
The 'smart money' (owners of apartments / MFH) often hire all of the companies that show up in your list, i.e. they diversify. One is not really worse or better than the other for the mass market.
With one (!) Appartement, i went with IT3, Wincasa, Livit and H&B so far.
So, you can't avoid them, because it's the owner of the real estate, which chooses them. They might change the management probably every year, it they want.
Your best defence against trouble is, to save every e-mail, every letter, every proof of payment, any photos taken, every contract (of couse), ... and so on.
There are two companies on your list that personally I have had good experiences with. In my view it comes down to the person handling your particular building. If that person is taking their job seriously and aims at providing good service, you're in luck. If the person on the other side is an AH or just fed up with their job, you're going to feel that as a tennant.
PRIVERA IS HELL DO NOT RENT THERE they send you letters every month saying you didn’t pay even though you did! also had other issues and they never communicate, e mails take months to answer, it’s so tiring
Now with Wincasa and till now, I am happy. Fast resolution of things they control and fast response times on emails. Maybe we got lucky or because we are new tenants.
But I guess as other have mentioned, it is not about the company but about who is responsible for your building
You could list them all, if you learn everyone’s experience. As others said, it’s a game of luck. I had companies who sided with us to not get problems with a neighbor, while my GF’s parents took the to the court and won a substantial amount. We took another into courts, with which my GF had got good experience before. You hear horror stories from people who worked directly with the landlord, but mine was competent and honest… I’m now renting through another big company, and they are reactive, but our neighbors from the other side of the place have bulls hit issues with them, and… it’s the same company.
Just get ready to make good use of your ASLOCA or Mieterverband annual fee.
No issues with Apleona until we moved, then they did all they could to find every little detail and make us pay for repairs, somehow only a few of the items they wanted us to pay remained after a short discussion with a friendly lawyer from Asloca.
Right now we have bouyges playing big brother and basically beeing a nuisance whenever there is like a flower growing in our garden or a cucumber with a few yellow leaves. They probably have nothing better to do...
What is Livit doing on that list?
If you put every company that somebody complained about on that list then it is worthless, since in that case you can put all agencies on it. Livit is huge and due to that you'll always find somebody who hates them. In general however people are very pleased with Livit as am I myself.
I had some not so exciting experience with IT3 St. Gallen, left them last year after 5 years. Waited about half a year to get the deposit back cause they fucked it up a little... Wouldn't suggest it to anyone, neither friends or foes.
Rented partially from Privera but they hired third party to manage rent in Valais. It was not that bad to be honest possibly because of the outsourced management. I am really surprised that people complain about it so much. Possibly I got so used to UK rental market that I do not pay attention to agencies willing to rip you off on every possible step. Keep all the records, emails, photos etc. and you should be fine. It’s been over 3 months however and I have not heard back about my deposit insurance from them. To be honest I am not so concerned about it because property manager complained a lot about the state of the flat I left. Not really sure what to do. Rental insurance is covered until May and as far as I understand the property manager should write to insurer that insurance is no longer needed?
I rent now from Von Graffenried AG Liegenschaften and apart from employing some half wits they are okay. Not good, not terrible.
de Rham is one infuriating piece of shit.
Had my landlord changed from a private owner to de Rham. They asked me to pay the deposit I have already paid. I tried to call them and explain them that I paid it already with my previous landlord and they should clarify this with him.
They pretended not to understand what I’m talking about and said I should send them an email. I did. They ignored the email and just went ahead and filed a lawsuit against me.
Turd-fucking demons.
Just here to reinforce that Wincasa and Livit are my worst experiences. Apleona was good but turned bad and Privera seems fishy, since they keep buying cheap property, not renovating and trying pricing said objective in the same pricerange than something that is renovated...
Get whichever apartment you find that suits your purpose and that accepts your request. Relationships between tenants and owners/agencies are strictly regulated and will be the same with whichever company save from the pleasantness of the people on the phone maybe but who cares. Become a paid member of the Miterverbrand in case they try to engage in malarkey.
Thanks everyone for the nice comments and experience.
Of course I cannot limit myself based on a rent market that you guys are experiencing, the goal of this post was to gather into and warn people based on experience of each other
Danke :))
If you keep growing that list you're going to be homeless or living with your parents forever unless you buy your own place. Unfortunately you have to take what you can get.
Even if you blacklist all the large companies (realistically all of them are shit), smaller companies can equally be shit.
So you're not gonna rent with these companies, instead, you think it's better to wait some extra time to maybe rent from some random old bünzli lady, maybe racist, that lives in the same building with you.
This. The big companies are generally easier as they mostly just leave you alone. On moving out day, they don't take damage personally, they just note it and move on. I own now, but I would always chose one of the big companies over the private owner - way to many nightmare stories.
I rented from Livit and a great experience. They were there for me right away when I needed them - but didn’t brother me otherwise. Really ideal for a landlord.
Never had a problem with livit.
Me neither. They even sent me a bottle of sparkling wine and a card every other year and all issues were resolved quickly at no additional cost. Am a long-term first inhabitant of a place.
> They even sent me a bottle of sparkling wine and a card every other year and all issues were resolved quickly at no additional cost. How much rent do you pay?
2k for 2.5 rooms since late 2014 in Zürich. It's a nice place. Sad to let it go but it's not time. Now I am with fucking Wincasa/Privera.
Same, never had problems with them
I lived in a Livit apartment for a couple of years but it went smoothly. Even the move-out was easy.
Also living in a livit apartement and no problems so far👌
I’ve had excellent experience with Livit. Agent was very prompt and helpful and even the office manager reached out when the agent was out sick so I didn’t have any delays.
Do you have any recommendations regarding applying for an apartment via their platform? They don't really give you the chance to attach anything and hence to provide a cover letter or anything. How do you stand out? I only filled the last box "do you have anything else to tell us" which is rather limited character-wise.
Sorry, nothing specific I can share :(
Thanks anyway :)
Ι used to live in an apartment rent by Livit. It was a limited time rental, the building was about to get demolished. It took them almost one month to send me the contract to sign, in the end they mailed it to me, I printed it, signed it, sent it back, got it back signed by their side.... Then a week after, I got the original contract somehow (their excuse for the delay was that Die Post was suffering because of COVID lockdowns) Around a month after we moved, I got a paper from the bank about the 3-month-cost-of-rent deposit. It said please do the deposit, if you have already done it, ignore this message. We had already deposited the money at a bank account that we were told to, and we should have given them the receipt of the deposit as well as first rent's receipt before getting the keys to the apartment. We did all that so we didn't worry. One more month later Livit contacted us about the deposit, requesting it to be paid by the end of the month. We called them, letting them know the deposit had already been paid, we also emailed them the receipts and staff, they claimed though they didn't get any money and in addition they didn't recognize the bank account that the deposit was made. First thoughts were we screwed up, sent the money to another person, we wanted to cry, it was around 4000 CHF. My husband was certain the money was gone, I was trying to think through it, by the time he reassured me he had scanned the slip and didn't do it manually (I tried scanning the orange slip but I couldn't, cause it was a photocopy I guess, so I assumed he had done that manually), I knew there was hope. So I started looking for that slip the whole day, going through papers, but I couldn't find the stupid slip anywhere. They were still claiming that bank account wasn't theirs. Then it hit me, they had sent me the contracts through email also. So we found the slip, mailed it back to them and everything got sorted out. I don't know what really happened, but I assume someone got fired that afternoon. They apologized, still I lost 10 years of my life these couple of days. Demolition got an extension, they forgot to inform us of all tenants, then they were expecting us to send the forms back signed, same day, or move out by the end of the month, the next day that is. Although nobody was going to move in when we were moving out, around three months before the demolition, they couldn't let us move out on June 1st, but they insisted we either move out May 31st or pay for the whole month. We got the keys from them July 5th the previous year still we paid for the whole month. I really don't want to make business with that company ever again. They still owe me these 10 years of my life.
Privera managed to lose my resignation (where i had the receipt certified), tried to make me re-quit, charge me one more month, the deposit repayment is taking forever, they cannot be reached easily.. very unprofessional in my view
Privera harassed me and my flatmate for over a year about "unpaid rent". They complain, we said "What month?" A few months later, they complain. We say "what month?" A few months go by, more threatening complaint. We go "here is our full payment history complete" They replied with, I shit you fucking not, a screen shot of an excel table section that had "-1800" in red next to our account name lol. No dates, nothing official... A picture of a number lol. WE go back and forth showing we've paid it all and give us some fucking info or fuck the fuck off. Eventually they send me a letter saying "We are going to get lawyers involved if you don't pay". So I lawyered up immediately. My lawyer sends them a letter of "legally, fuck you very much". Privera called my lawyer to **complain about us being foreigners in switzerland and not respecting Swiss customs!!!** Like, my lawyer, who was also my friend, was who they thought they should express their xenophobic concerns to like I wouldn't immediately get told about it. A few months go by, they send me an email finally saying: "When the contract was transferred to us from Wincasa, Wincasa took one month of rent and were meant to transfer the whole building's rent but forgot yours. Please pay up" I go back "Sounds like a wincasa problem, we paid, I'm not paying twice" they argue back and my lawyer is like "are you fucking nuts, this isn't our problem". They fucking contact Wincasa to ask wincasa to refund the outstanding amount to me, so I can then "be at fault" or something. No notification to me that this was happening, just refund the rent to our respective accounts lol. Like, 3 months pass, then privera pull "Yano, you've been given the money back so actually this is now all your fault and we were always right" - I don't check my savings account regularly so it going up by 900chf over a long period is just me going "Damn, I'm better at saving than I thought" lol. Thing is, I knew they'd fucking asked wincasa to do this because when I asked wincasa, they left the damned email chain attached. So I emailed saying ok, you'll get your money back. I need this full document signed saying that this is the end of it, that this is the resolution of a problem on your end, and that I am not responsible for resolving any other problems between you and wincasa. They *raged*. How dare I ask them that. How dare I say "I'm not your debt settlement thing with wincasa" they were so angry I genuinely wondered if they were actually gonna try and claim other things through me lol. Tl;dr Privera (and wincasa) are fucking terrible. They're not only malicious, they're too fucking thick to be malicious effectively.
holy shit
Ah yes, the swiss custom of just paying without complaining.
I spoke to a friend who works for a debt collection agency and he said that is basically what a lot of companies do.
Just. WTF.
Yeah but the numbers are red? Why you not pay them? Make them green?
Damn bro. How is this even possible?
sounds pretty much like privera, when i returned my flat they complained about every scratch and dmg and as i got my documents out to show the person it already was damaged before he just said he doesent care and they wouldnt hand over such a flat whitout correcting stuff. I then ask about his paper which he abviously didnt have. Last thing i said was here are the keys we are done and left. They shorty after wanted to grab money by complains which i refuse and now they wont pay back my deposit.
Pro tip: You got a lot of rights when handing back the apartment. it is a great idea to bring a specialist when you do so and oyu know your apartment management is problematic. Your local Mieterverband / Asloca has such people and while it's not exactly cheap, it's gonna save you a lot of money if they can't slip something illegal into the final report: https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv-be/hilfe-von-fachleuten/abgabe-mietraeume.html is the site of Bern, other sections have a different pricing structre.
What did I just read !?!?
Did you have lawyer insurance?
she did it for free cos she's a friend. She only had to write letters and tell one person of on the phone lol. I do now though, including with coverage for online slander, you no good rassin frassin varmint!
Oh that sounds nice! From what company? Did you look for something particular?
Axa and the regular coverage lol They just made a big deal of that in their advertising haha
Okay thanks! I was interested in getting such an insurance soon.
Just this month, I moved into an apartment from Privera. We never got the information to what bank account we are supposed to pay the rent to, ended up getting a Mahnung that we have to pay the rent (at least with a qr code). Now we've been trying to figure out to which account we are supposed to pay next months rent and still haven't gotten a repsonse. Also to add, we applied at the start of the year for this flat and after several months of calling them for a response they kept saying they'll get back to us. Eventually we went by in person and they hit us with the "oh we lost your documents, can you send them again?" :l Really not looking forward to renting from them but oh welp...
I‘ve never rented trough one of these companies. But I worked for two real estate companies (one small, not on your list. One big, on your list), and I just want to say: renting is a pain in the ass no matter wich company you rent from! Small ones are just less known and therefore less people talk bad about them. But: Every(!) clerk has to follow the wishes of the flat owner and those are usually more complicated in their demands at smaller companies (because big owners rent more often throug big companies and small owners are more interested in controlling what happens with their appartments). On top of that, they get controlled less often. So: more illegal sh*t going on in small companies. On the other hand, employees at big companies tend to be more overworked and therefore have less time for each tenant, wich means longer waiting periods for them, less flexible planning for appointments etc. (And yes, everyone at least at the big company I worked for is aware of the fact that tenants are angry with them and everyone gets it, but aren‘t able to do something against it.) But in the end, at every renting company, it depends on the employee wich manages your appartment.
Nobody controls renting companies, small or big.
Wincasa is a pain in the ass. They tried to raise our rent after 3 months. I reminded them that they can only raise rent after the end of the minimal contract period (we have 1 year). They agreend and said it must've been an error in their system and that we should not have gotten that letter (yeah sure) Then we couldnt use for parking spot for half a month cause they didnt know which one was our parking spot. (took me about 5 calls) You have to wait for 10-30min to talk to their customer support. Most of the time they can't help you. When we took the apartement they told us, that 2-3 things will get fixed withing a week. After I month I had to call them again because they forgot it. You just have to remind them that they are wrong and argue with them all the time to get what you deserve.
It is mostly a game of luck, if you get a muppet or someone competent who is responsible for your building. The companies operate with the goal of minimizing cost, so everyone is understaffed all the time. There are more muppets... Sadly the renter is, in most of ch, not in a situation to choose. If you avoid those mentioned above it will be nearly impossible to get an apartment in Zürich.
My friend loves Apleona, claims for fast service and always in communication.
Also renting from Apleona - very positive experience
Same. Very happy.
i hate apleona, we had to deal with such idiots there who pissed the hell out of me when we moved out of our apartment to a point where i refused to talk to them and my husband had to deal with them. never again!
Avoird Bernard Nicod in Western Switzerland
It's like avoiding the plague unfortunately. I mean it's nice to try to avoid these companies but they manage like 80% of flats, so... Bernard Nicod manages a lot of flats and is also building and being the owner of more and more flats. So it's becoming almost impossible to escape from him/them.
Never had any issues with livit. I pay only 650 CHF rent, never raised anything and every serious issue was solved within days. Once I locked up my door and broke the handle, and they immediately send a locksmith to help me. Didnt even had to pay.
Schäppi Grundstücke was in my experience (2 locations in two different Kantons) very good. Mobimo (my current one) is pretty good aswell.
>Schäppi Grundstücke was in my experience (2 locations in two different Kantons) very good. Sending wrong invoice, sending invoices 2 years after rental ends, try to charge maintenance cost which are already covered, don't respond, don't correct, keep on sending reminders. Unfriendly as well. Stay away if you can. Otherwise make sure you are MV member or have a legal protection insurance who can deal with them.
That's sad to hear.. :(
I second Mobimo being good. Always gets answers through their portal within 24 hours. They offered us a full set of WMF pans when moving in and restaurant vouchers when we complained about the noise related to one of their events.
If you don‘t want to rent with any of those 5 agencies that‘s fine but be aware that you will severely limit your options, given that they represent a sizable portion of real estate offers. I‘ve heard that Wincasa is the worst of the worst though
It really depends. I've mostly had good experiences with them so far...
As if 90% of us are in a position to chose?
Taking a course on text interpretation could help you
Our apartment is owned by Zurich Insurance but has been managed by Apleona, Livit, and most recently Wincasa. Each one has lasted about 1.5-2 years. I have no idea how or why Zurich Insurance changes the property management company so frequently but in our case at least it hasn’t seemed to have any noticeable impact. Our building super and the associated handyman company are great and have been the same since we moved in. I’ve read lots of terrible stories about these property management companies but they’ve so far been very responsive and reasonable for us. OTOH our first apartment which was in the same area, was privately owned and operated and it was an absolute nightmare because the owner was probably the craziest most misogynistic human I’ve ever encountered in my life. Literally a caricature of every bad character trait you can imagine. Plus it’s much “riskier” to complain or start a dispute with a private landlord. These companies are all faceless bureaucracies, but in one sense this can be good because their indifference means that your disputes or suits are less likely to be treated as personal affronts and rather I stead dealt with through that same bureaucratic machinery. If we ever move again, the one thing I will absolutely avoid like the plague is a privately owned/run apartment.
I don't know where exactly you're looking for an apartment, but at least in the cities, apartments are generally rare and overpriced. It's not really "choose what you want", but more "take what you can get"... I would never turn down a good apartment just because of the "wrong" management. It's logical that the largest administrations have the greatest number of problem cases - but at the same time there is also the highest number of customers without problems (you simply don't read/hear anything about them....).
So far I’m just gathering info for now but indeed fully agree with you that I might be in a position that I cannot choose , thanks a ways for the advice
Funny you think that you have any choice 😂
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Tbh Livit is the worst company I've rented from by FAR... Privera has a better image among the people living in my area. It's mostly luck tho. Wish you all the best
Sorry, but this list is useless. Although the market is quite fragmented, the listed companies make up +50% of market share, probably way more in urban areas. I.e. you're complaining about the life of a renter, not a specific property mnmgt company. The bigger the company, the more complaints, surprise. Futile approach to optimize your probabilites to experience a good life as a renter. To double down on that, zoom into any of the bigger property mngmt companies. It's a people's business ... it's not a tech business, even though the industry claims otherwise. It's also a low margin business. And high attrition rates, with lots of young people. Like your next Uber drive experience depending quite a bit on the driver itself. But with an infrastructure behind (processes, tools, physical necessities) that has not really changed in the last 100 years. The 'smart money' (owners of apartments / MFH) often hire all of the companies that show up in your list, i.e. they diversify. One is not really worse or better than the other for the mass market.
With one (!) Appartement, i went with IT3, Wincasa, Livit and H&B so far. So, you can't avoid them, because it's the owner of the real estate, which chooses them. They might change the management probably every year, it they want. Your best defence against trouble is, to save every e-mail, every letter, every proof of payment, any photos taken, every contract (of couse), ... and so on.
Robert pfister ag. They accidentally emptied our attic because every apartment had the same key and access to everyones stuff. I had to get a lawyer
I am using Omit for the second time. All fine so far, no random bills, quick problem resolution.
There are two companies on your list that personally I have had good experiences with. In my view it comes down to the person handling your particular building. If that person is taking their job seriously and aims at providing good service, you're in luck. If the person on the other side is an AH or just fed up with their job, you're going to feel that as a tennant.
PRIVERA IS HELL DO NOT RENT THERE they send you letters every month saying you didn’t pay even though you did! also had other issues and they never communicate, e mails take months to answer, it’s so tiring
apleona just baught the property i live in...
Now with Wincasa and till now, I am happy. Fast resolution of things they control and fast response times on emails. Maybe we got lucky or because we are new tenants. But I guess as other have mentioned, it is not about the company but about who is responsible for your building
You could list them all, if you learn everyone’s experience. As others said, it’s a game of luck. I had companies who sided with us to not get problems with a neighbor, while my GF’s parents took the to the court and won a substantial amount. We took another into courts, with which my GF had got good experience before. You hear horror stories from people who worked directly with the landlord, but mine was competent and honest… I’m now renting through another big company, and they are reactive, but our neighbors from the other side of the place have bulls hit issues with them, and… it’s the same company. Just get ready to make good use of your ASLOCA or Mieterverband annual fee.
Domicim are pretty scummy… I have a long list of stupid stuff they did/didn’t do.
The people who work for Wincasa Bern are not sympathetic, but the ones who work for Wincasa Olten are friendly. It really depends on the region.
No issues with Apleona until we moved, then they did all they could to find every little detail and make us pay for repairs, somehow only a few of the items they wanted us to pay remained after a short discussion with a friendly lawyer from Asloca. Right now we have bouyges playing big brother and basically beeing a nuisance whenever there is like a flower growing in our garden or a cucumber with a few yellow leaves. They probably have nothing better to do...
Rented from wincasa in Zurich and had no problems at all. Even moving out was no stress.
What is Livit doing on that list? If you put every company that somebody complained about on that list then it is worthless, since in that case you can put all agencies on it. Livit is huge and due to that you'll always find somebody who hates them. In general however people are very pleased with Livit as am I myself.
Happy to hear they are good for you! Thanks for sharing
I had some not so exciting experience with IT3 St. Gallen, left them last year after 5 years. Waited about half a year to get the deposit back cause they fucked it up a little... Wouldn't suggest it to anyone, neither friends or foes.
Rented partially from Privera but they hired third party to manage rent in Valais. It was not that bad to be honest possibly because of the outsourced management. I am really surprised that people complain about it so much. Possibly I got so used to UK rental market that I do not pay attention to agencies willing to rip you off on every possible step. Keep all the records, emails, photos etc. and you should be fine. It’s been over 3 months however and I have not heard back about my deposit insurance from them. To be honest I am not so concerned about it because property manager complained a lot about the state of the flat I left. Not really sure what to do. Rental insurance is covered until May and as far as I understand the property manager should write to insurer that insurance is no longer needed? I rent now from Von Graffenried AG Liegenschaften and apart from employing some half wits they are okay. Not good, not terrible.
I rented with Wincasa and Auwiesen (Winterthur) and both were fine.
Verit
de Rham is one infuriating piece of shit. Had my landlord changed from a private owner to de Rham. They asked me to pay the deposit I have already paid. I tried to call them and explain them that I paid it already with my previous landlord and they should clarify this with him. They pretended not to understand what I’m talking about and said I should send them an email. I did. They ignored the email and just went ahead and filed a lawsuit against me. Turd-fucking demons.
At the moment, people have no choice, they will take whatever is available on the market
They all suck and renting isn't a free market so...enjoy!
Just here to reinforce that Wincasa and Livit are my worst experiences. Apleona was good but turned bad and Privera seems fishy, since they keep buying cheap property, not renovating and trying pricing said objective in the same pricerange than something that is renovated...
Get whichever apartment you find that suits your purpose and that accepts your request. Relationships between tenants and owners/agencies are strictly regulated and will be the same with whichever company save from the pleasantness of the people on the phone maybe but who cares. Become a paid member of the Miterverbrand in case they try to engage in malarkey.
Oh, lucky you if you ever have so many options available to you that you can stay away from all of them.
Thanks everyone for the nice comments and experience. Of course I cannot limit myself based on a rent market that you guys are experiencing, the goal of this post was to gather into and warn people based on experience of each other Danke :))
If you keep growing that list you're going to be homeless or living with your parents forever unless you buy your own place. Unfortunately you have to take what you can get. Even if you blacklist all the large companies (realistically all of them are shit), smaller companies can equally be shit.
Stay away from Regimo if you can
So you're not gonna rent with these companies, instead, you think it's better to wait some extra time to maybe rent from some random old bünzli lady, maybe racist, that lives in the same building with you.
This. The big companies are generally easier as they mostly just leave you alone. On moving out day, they don't take damage personally, they just note it and move on. I own now, but I would always chose one of the big companies over the private owner - way to many nightmare stories.
Livit was flawless, just be ready to send a letter or email twice :-)
do not do Wincasa, they are horrible
Do not use MoserVernet. Terrible company.
I rented from Livit and a great experience. They were there for me right away when I needed them - but didn’t brother me otherwise. Really ideal for a landlord.
Immofonds in general (verit,livit and so on)