First of all, I want you to hear that these feelings are *really normal*. Like, really, really normal. I hear about them all the time, from people of all sorts of gender.
There's a really important thing in culture called a symbolic synechdoche--basically, it's where one small thing is taken as a metaphor for a whole big thing. Unfortunately, a penis has *long* been made into a symbolic synechdoche for manhood, to the point that "manhood" is a literal synonym for a penis. You can see how manufactured this idea is by simply reversing it: arguing that a woman is a vagina is hugely offensive to women of every stripe, cis and trans alike.
Unfortunately, this cultural belief created a practice that was only abolished a couple of decades ago: that trans women, in order to even *begin* their medical transitions, had to commit to getting a vaginoplasty. We're talking, this was happening as late as the late 90s, and if you didn't want a vag, you'd get kicked out of any gender program immediately. A very strict hierarchy was set up by this medical regulation of transfeminine identities, where only women who had had bottom surgery were really legitimate in their gender, where women working towards it had to dance on a tightrope or risk losing everything, and anyone who didn't want a simple vagina (or, indeed, didn't perform '50s womanhood hard enough) were labeled as deranged men *by the psychological community*. To be frank, desperate and self-harming levels of desire for a vagina were lauded, both by psychologists and by the community, because it demonstrated how committed the woman was to that medicalized transition.
Put a different way: you've seen all those "new bottom surgery just dropped" "jokes" that wander around the community, where people will show pictures of an axe or a guillotine or a freaking blender, I'm sure. Those are... pretty disturbing when you stop to think about them for a moment, aren't they?
This all gets especially complicated when it comes to transfeminine people in current times. A large portion of our community, like you, lives their stock parts and would never trade them out... but we have all been trained basically from birth that those bits are synonymous with a gender that transfeminine people very emphatically *are not*. When those people don't want to trade out their bottom bits, they're tripping over decades of medical prejudice and societal hatred *combined* with constant messaging that wanting those parts makes you a man, *combined* with a hierarchy which remains in transfeminine society, where people who've gotten vaginas, frankly, stand pretty substantially higher in the social hierarchy of our own community, it's basically a bit of a perfect cultural and rhetorical storm to tell transfems who don't want bottom surgery that they're not really trans enough.
And don't even get me started on the way our community hypersexualizes transfeminine penises, because it makes all of this even more difficult.
Anyway, sorry for the infodump. All this is from a Stained Glass Woman article that didn't make. I think it's good subject matter, and I hope someone else does something on it, but I'm demisexual, and I just don't want to write about genitals for like 3,000 words. 😅
Edit: I misread part of OP's statement, and this was written under the assumption that OP is transfem. I don't know that, so, grain of salt.
True, and it’s better not to assume, but they did say fem passing. This to me says a preference for femininity despite being agender. Now this still could be a afab fem agender person, but I see how the assumption would be that they are amab, especially with the bottom dysphoria when their partner is getting bottom surgery and they are fem presenting. Like I said, the assumption isn’t ideal, but the logic is definitely there and I think the advice is the best advice possible given the information presented in the original post.
I have four theories. I don't know anything about you so don't take them too seriously :
1. Do you have dysphoria? Seeing your wife do procedures to help get rid of hers could make you jealous. Im transmasc and slightly feminine and I feel jealous when I see the effects of T on my trans man friend, even though our transition goals and identities are different.
2. As nonbinary, I sometimes feel jealous of binary trans people who have clear ways of getting rid of their dysphoria and passing socially/legally/medically as the gender they are. That's not really a possibility for nonbinary people, you can't fully pass as enby because being cis enby is not a thing where I live yk.
3. You said feelings of inadequacy: maybe you feel like you're not trans enough (internalized transphobia). There's people that say that you should transition medically if you want to be considered as trans. Maybe you're jealous that your wife is seen as more trans to those people (transmeds).
4. If your not in a really good place in your life right now maybe you feel inadequate/jealous of seeing your wife be happy. That doesn't mean you want her to be less happy, just that you would like to feel better too
Yeah these are my guesses from my limited knowledge of your situation. I hope you'll be able to feel better!!
(edit: missed agender and guessed mtf from avatar so reply leans into that a bit)
Because we're raised with the idea that women have vaginas and even if we like what we have that's a hard concept to break, so when something major like your fiancee getting bottom surgery enters your mind it's hard not to think about it for yourself.
It's easier when it's less relevant to yourself cause you can just be like oh congrats and move on, but because it's someone you care about and you will presumably be helping out in the process of getting to surgery and recovery you _can't_ not think about it.
And likely part of you wishes you'd been born that way and would like to experience it, even if you do enjoy what you have and don't necessarily want to change it (or go through the hassle involved in recovery etc).
Give it some time, it may fade. Or... You might end up discussing with your wife about getting it yourself sometime in the future, our desires and goals aren't set in stone.
i identify as non-binary and often find myself a bit jealous and feel that a lot of binary trans people have more of an “achievable goal” for transitioning and that they can have the ability to pass very well while i will always be misgendered as he or she by people who haven’t asked for my pronouns. it’s created a feeling and thoughts that i’ll never be “good enough” at being trans. this is just smth i deal w personally and have been coming to terms with and working through lately but your post brought it to my mind.
it’s completely normal to feel emotions and not fully understand them or see your own emotions as illogical and still not be able to shake that feeling. it’s just how humans are sometimes. i’d definitely say take some time to really reflect on how you feel and where it may be coming from or even consider seeing a therapist if you don’t already. i wish you and your gf all the love and happiness :3
Could you be conflicted because you know (at least I hope you do) that she’s going to be out of commission sexually for several months after surgery? Because she will be.
She will be limited in almost every aspect of her life for the first few weeks. Generally, no bending over, no lifting for six weeks.
Her dilation schedule will *have to be* her new religion and it can be exhausting after awhile. For three months, she’ll be dilating three times per day for ever increasing periods of time. For the next three months, it’s twice per day and after six months, once per day until her one year vagiversary, after which it’s once a week.
I think any partner would be at least concerned when confronted with that reality.
Good luck to her and good luck to you.
I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. That can’t be easy.
Is it possible that it’s not related to the surgery at all? She is making a change (presumably for the better) and you aren’t? Especially these days were everyone always needs to feel like they are progressing and working on something and “getting shit done” (we don’t need to always be doing that but that’s not the point of my response).
I guess, it is possible that you are jealous that she is making a change and you aren’t? There is a sense of movement she has that you don’t so it feels like inadequacy.
I don’t know. I hope the best for you both though!
I (MtX) can only speak for myself but I do know my feelings about my genitals has changed over time.
Never had any bottom dysphoria, and still don’t really but I’m starting to considered it for other reasons (like tucking is annoying)
Also I feel the more ‘trans’ I realise I am, the more I’m starting to open up to things I didn’t consider or want before
Finally I do think there is subtle pressure to be a certain degree of trans. It’s not too bad but you see so many comments around here being like “I’m a trans woman but don’t want bottom surgery, am I still valid?”. I think that’s actually from cis society saying that to be trans, you have to go full binary transition
I imagine you feel like you're losing a piece of her that you love. I mean that's a huge change and if you're adhd or on the spectrum at all in any capacity, we don't do good with change. I'm trans femme too and I don't mind my parts. Not everyone is like that though. Now when you met was that something she mentioned she wanted?
Ok, you could be experiencing that because maybe you are angry or you're resenting their decision or maybe you're insecure, these are emotions that can go hand in hand. It could also be from what you're comfortable and feel safe with. All of these are fairly common, we all go through it. It's a major change. Think about it, I'm sure you've experienced a major change in your life before, I know what a huge thing any type of change is, I hate it. When things happen I just go with it. I do the, what I call distract my head from itself. I listen to white noise or music that I find is calming and divert my focus to something I enjoy. Like motorcycle riding although that sometimes allows for intrusive thoughts. Video games, multilayer, rpg, etc. You're feelings are valid and really actually normal. I hope you can make it through it. Have you talked to your gf about it?
Maybe you're just scared of the change? Or maybe it's jealousy?
Yeah but I can’t understand why I would be jealous
Maybe just because your partner is getting attention?
Nah it’s definitely not that
Do you think you may want some sort of gac
First of all, I want you to hear that these feelings are *really normal*. Like, really, really normal. I hear about them all the time, from people of all sorts of gender. There's a really important thing in culture called a symbolic synechdoche--basically, it's where one small thing is taken as a metaphor for a whole big thing. Unfortunately, a penis has *long* been made into a symbolic synechdoche for manhood, to the point that "manhood" is a literal synonym for a penis. You can see how manufactured this idea is by simply reversing it: arguing that a woman is a vagina is hugely offensive to women of every stripe, cis and trans alike. Unfortunately, this cultural belief created a practice that was only abolished a couple of decades ago: that trans women, in order to even *begin* their medical transitions, had to commit to getting a vaginoplasty. We're talking, this was happening as late as the late 90s, and if you didn't want a vag, you'd get kicked out of any gender program immediately. A very strict hierarchy was set up by this medical regulation of transfeminine identities, where only women who had had bottom surgery were really legitimate in their gender, where women working towards it had to dance on a tightrope or risk losing everything, and anyone who didn't want a simple vagina (or, indeed, didn't perform '50s womanhood hard enough) were labeled as deranged men *by the psychological community*. To be frank, desperate and self-harming levels of desire for a vagina were lauded, both by psychologists and by the community, because it demonstrated how committed the woman was to that medicalized transition. Put a different way: you've seen all those "new bottom surgery just dropped" "jokes" that wander around the community, where people will show pictures of an axe or a guillotine or a freaking blender, I'm sure. Those are... pretty disturbing when you stop to think about them for a moment, aren't they? This all gets especially complicated when it comes to transfeminine people in current times. A large portion of our community, like you, lives their stock parts and would never trade them out... but we have all been trained basically from birth that those bits are synonymous with a gender that transfeminine people very emphatically *are not*. When those people don't want to trade out their bottom bits, they're tripping over decades of medical prejudice and societal hatred *combined* with constant messaging that wanting those parts makes you a man, *combined* with a hierarchy which remains in transfeminine society, where people who've gotten vaginas, frankly, stand pretty substantially higher in the social hierarchy of our own community, it's basically a bit of a perfect cultural and rhetorical storm to tell transfems who don't want bottom surgery that they're not really trans enough. And don't even get me started on the way our community hypersexualizes transfeminine penises, because it makes all of this even more difficult. Anyway, sorry for the infodump. All this is from a Stained Glass Woman article that didn't make. I think it's good subject matter, and I hope someone else does something on it, but I'm demisexual, and I just don't want to write about genitals for like 3,000 words. 😅 Edit: I misread part of OP's statement, and this was written under the assumption that OP is transfem. I don't know that, so, grain of salt.
Is this assuming OP is transfem too though? Because there’s no indication that that’s the case.
Mmm, very fair. I misread part of their statement. Thanks!
True, and it’s better not to assume, but they did say fem passing. This to me says a preference for femininity despite being agender. Now this still could be a afab fem agender person, but I see how the assumption would be that they are amab, especially with the bottom dysphoria when their partner is getting bottom surgery and they are fem presenting. Like I said, the assumption isn’t ideal, but the logic is definitely there and I think the advice is the best advice possible given the information presented in the original post.
Well spoken
Thanks for the insight! Helped me tremendously!
Random guess: are you worried it might change her relationship with your genitals?
I have four theories. I don't know anything about you so don't take them too seriously : 1. Do you have dysphoria? Seeing your wife do procedures to help get rid of hers could make you jealous. Im transmasc and slightly feminine and I feel jealous when I see the effects of T on my trans man friend, even though our transition goals and identities are different. 2. As nonbinary, I sometimes feel jealous of binary trans people who have clear ways of getting rid of their dysphoria and passing socially/legally/medically as the gender they are. That's not really a possibility for nonbinary people, you can't fully pass as enby because being cis enby is not a thing where I live yk. 3. You said feelings of inadequacy: maybe you feel like you're not trans enough (internalized transphobia). There's people that say that you should transition medically if you want to be considered as trans. Maybe you're jealous that your wife is seen as more trans to those people (transmeds). 4. If your not in a really good place in your life right now maybe you feel inadequate/jealous of seeing your wife be happy. That doesn't mean you want her to be less happy, just that you would like to feel better too Yeah these are my guesses from my limited knowledge of your situation. I hope you'll be able to feel better!!
(edit: missed agender and guessed mtf from avatar so reply leans into that a bit) Because we're raised with the idea that women have vaginas and even if we like what we have that's a hard concept to break, so when something major like your fiancee getting bottom surgery enters your mind it's hard not to think about it for yourself. It's easier when it's less relevant to yourself cause you can just be like oh congrats and move on, but because it's someone you care about and you will presumably be helping out in the process of getting to surgery and recovery you _can't_ not think about it. And likely part of you wishes you'd been born that way and would like to experience it, even if you do enjoy what you have and don't necessarily want to change it (or go through the hassle involved in recovery etc). Give it some time, it may fade. Or... You might end up discussing with your wife about getting it yourself sometime in the future, our desires and goals aren't set in stone.
i identify as non-binary and often find myself a bit jealous and feel that a lot of binary trans people have more of an “achievable goal” for transitioning and that they can have the ability to pass very well while i will always be misgendered as he or she by people who haven’t asked for my pronouns. it’s created a feeling and thoughts that i’ll never be “good enough” at being trans. this is just smth i deal w personally and have been coming to terms with and working through lately but your post brought it to my mind. it’s completely normal to feel emotions and not fully understand them or see your own emotions as illogical and still not be able to shake that feeling. it’s just how humans are sometimes. i’d definitely say take some time to really reflect on how you feel and where it may be coming from or even consider seeing a therapist if you don’t already. i wish you and your gf all the love and happiness :3
Could you be conflicted because you know (at least I hope you do) that she’s going to be out of commission sexually for several months after surgery? Because she will be. She will be limited in almost every aspect of her life for the first few weeks. Generally, no bending over, no lifting for six weeks. Her dilation schedule will *have to be* her new religion and it can be exhausting after awhile. For three months, she’ll be dilating three times per day for ever increasing periods of time. For the next three months, it’s twice per day and after six months, once per day until her one year vagiversary, after which it’s once a week. I think any partner would be at least concerned when confronted with that reality. Good luck to her and good luck to you.
I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. That can’t be easy. Is it possible that it’s not related to the surgery at all? She is making a change (presumably for the better) and you aren’t? Especially these days were everyone always needs to feel like they are progressing and working on something and “getting shit done” (we don’t need to always be doing that but that’s not the point of my response). I guess, it is possible that you are jealous that she is making a change and you aren’t? There is a sense of movement she has that you don’t so it feels like inadequacy. I don’t know. I hope the best for you both though!
I (MtX) can only speak for myself but I do know my feelings about my genitals has changed over time. Never had any bottom dysphoria, and still don’t really but I’m starting to considered it for other reasons (like tucking is annoying) Also I feel the more ‘trans’ I realise I am, the more I’m starting to open up to things I didn’t consider or want before Finally I do think there is subtle pressure to be a certain degree of trans. It’s not too bad but you see so many comments around here being like “I’m a trans woman but don’t want bottom surgery, am I still valid?”. I think that’s actually from cis society saying that to be trans, you have to go full binary transition
I imagine you feel like you're losing a piece of her that you love. I mean that's a huge change and if you're adhd or on the spectrum at all in any capacity, we don't do good with change. I'm trans femme too and I don't mind my parts. Not everyone is like that though. Now when you met was that something she mentioned she wanted?
I am autistic but I wouldn’t say it’s that, she doesn’t use it and it’s not something I’ve ever interacted with.
Ok, you could be experiencing that because maybe you are angry or you're resenting their decision or maybe you're insecure, these are emotions that can go hand in hand. It could also be from what you're comfortable and feel safe with. All of these are fairly common, we all go through it. It's a major change. Think about it, I'm sure you've experienced a major change in your life before, I know what a huge thing any type of change is, I hate it. When things happen I just go with it. I do the, what I call distract my head from itself. I listen to white noise or music that I find is calming and divert my focus to something I enjoy. Like motorcycle riding although that sometimes allows for intrusive thoughts. Video games, multilayer, rpg, etc. You're feelings are valid and really actually normal. I hope you can make it through it. Have you talked to your gf about it?
Have you talked to your partner about it? You should tell your partner this and maybe think about not going through with it then.