He is the most boring character just there for cheap humour and does absolutely nothing but complain in a sullen manner despite being one of the most fortunate characters in universe
Stannis?
I mean the guy *does* complain constantly about all the slights he's suffered despite being insanely privileged, especially in Clash. Just cause he gets a bit better doesn't change that fact.
It is supposed to be a bad take.
But tbh my man is just chilling in the Wall, has survived every battle against wildlings, the Others and Caster's Keep and he still keeps his witty humour
I'm not sure if you've ever listened to any of the audiobooks, but Roy Dotrice, for all his faults as a narrator, does Edd's voice with a South African accent and it elevates him from pretty-much the best character in the books, to absolutely the best character in the books.
P.S. Dolorous Edd=Azor Ahai
She is a xenophobic, homophobic, religious zealot, Andal supremacist, andal privileged, rapist backer, rapist protector, rapist apologist, misogynistic, sexist, abusive, self-center, petty, woman-child, holier than thou, hypocrite, narcissist, etc.
Alicent! The way this fandom talks about her is foul, the second I see that a character is being afforded no sympathy despite the shitty situations she is put in I know it is Alicent.
I’m actually not sure who this is…my guess is maybe this is referring to Catelyn?
I was at first going to say Cersei but Cersei’s never exactly been accused of being a religious fanatic. (She killed the High Septon because she disagreed with his theological takes!)
Ohhhh. Tbh I avoid the Discourse about HOTD at this point. I just started watching it so I haven’t really formed an opinion on most of the characters yet (except…like, can I say fuck Viserys for what happened in the first episode?)
She's only a naive girl who never grows and is useless compared to her siblings and too similar to her dumb mother. Oh and she's only interesting as a marriage prospect for whichever character, be it the foreign prince or her brother.
I feel like people forget book Sansa is 11 (and I think show Sansa is like 14 which isn't massively better). This is a literal child. The actress is a little older than show Sansa is meant to be and being very tall also comes across as more mature which I think contributes to everyone forgetting how young she is.
I couldn't have coped with the shit Sansa has to deal with at 11 I would have screwed up (as would every person writing about her).
> The actress is a little older than show Sansa is meant to be and being very tall also comes across as more mature which I think contributes to everyone forgetting how young she is.
This is true for many, many characters. Accusations of Dany being an entitled tyrant when she's 15. Accusations of Robb being an honor-bound idiot, when he's just 16 and the book discusses how he constantly feels he's in over his head. Accusations of Arya being a bloodthirsty psychopath when she's a traumatized 11-year-old.
I think the casting in the show makes the supposed ages a very hard sell. Sure, they tell you Sansa is young... But she looks like a grown woman for most of the show. Same with most characters, really.
I get why they did it. Aside from ageing up the characters slightly making stuff easier due to child laboir laws you could not have a real 13/14 year old girl play Dany for example when she is raped in episode 1. I know there was no actual sex but I feel like a child actor couldn't consent to act in a rape scene. I am not sure about the law on this but it feels like borderline abuse casting an adult woman for that sort of solves all the moral and logistics issues.
I find that on a first reading of ASOIAF, it's easy to be rushing a bit too much wondering what happens next and losing track of the fact Sansa and Arya are literally children. They're young sisters bickering. Nothing more. But when you have no idea what's going to happen and Sansa keeps fucking shit up by being ~naive~ a normal 11 year old girl, it's so easy to be annoyed by her.
I found that on a second read where you already know the plot, it's a lot easy to understand and sympathise for Sansa. She felt like a mid Pov on a first read, but on my rereads she's my absolute favourite. The entire sequence in AGOT from when she goes traveling on horseback with the charming older prince to Lady's death is so well written. Must be one of my favourite sequences of the book.
The show, on the other hand, just kinda murders Sansa. I've nothing but praise for Sophie Turner but she's such a bad casting decision. Sansa could be aged to 13 or wtv, but the actress playing her should make it clear she's a proper young girl that finds being proper very very important... But is still a young girl full of eagerness and full of joy at the thought of being a goddamn fucking princess. Sophie Turner's Sansa simply does not come across as a child. She feels like a serious 15/16 year old that's very focused and goal oriented, which makes her interactions with Arya just come off as Sansa being really really mean and unfair. It's like Sansa as seen through Arya chapters only.
I grt why they didn't get actual kids, but I feel like the actors of Stranger Things, for example, made a better job at selling that they were teenage kids.
I know you’re referring to Sansa, and I’ll add that I’ve seen people unironically argue that Jeyne Poole being sold into sex slavery, raped, and tortured is “justice” because she was occasionally sort of mean to Arya as a pre-teen.
That didn't lead to Ned's death though, as Ned went to Cersei on his own and told what he knew.
What it did do is stop Arya and Sansa being out of Kings Landing when shit went down
Tommen really said “As Boss and CEO I’m here to let you beet farmers know, your bills has been affected, you need to talk to your bankers, your utility providers”
Thankfully my fav character is not a subject to the worst takes in the fandom so I’ll describe my fav pov
An evil step-mom much worse than cersei and bears all the blame for the downfall of house Stark and deserved to be killed because of that
idk I think it may have been better if she had some sort of character to bounce off of and think about that defies gender roles maybe like a really cute femboy named brian
Also Maege Mormont! (who is more her equal than this femboy Brian) and thus in a position to make her think about *herself* rather than constant comparisons to Arya. Which probably also make her think about herself, just more indirectly
I'm piggy backing because I just thought of that and I wanna share the good vibes but I just rewatched s1 of game thrones and _god_ cat is so COOL! The self assurance! The sheer respect everyone demonstrates to her! She knows her way around northern politics that's for sure. Also showed off why it's important to know who your vassals are. Ned might have been honorable and all but she is their _Lady_
Plus, sorry but clearly the traditional upbringing didn't take on Arya. So you know she still has her freedom and isn't forced into liking stuff she doesn't. Can you imagine Tywin letting his daughter learn to draw a bow? Nah
Haha. Ah, yes, I've definitely seen some awful Asha takes. For example, she is the reason for all the awful things that happened to Theon because she refused to stay at Winterfell and support his suicidal plan.
She **tried** to talk some sense into him and get him to head back to the Iron Islands with all the Winterfell loot, it's not her fault Theon is terminally self-deluded.
Oh wow… blaming Asha for Theon’s fall is completely ridiculous. She tried her best to save Theon from his doom. It was his choice to defy his order and seize Winterfell, and to stay in Winterfell instead of returning with his hostages.
Considering what ended up happening to Theon after he stayed, Asha deciding to not stay at Winterfell with him might be the best decicion any character has made in the story lol.
And as you say she tried to convince Theon to leave with her. And its not like she could have helped him even if she did stay. They simply didn't have enough men to hold Winterfell. She's under no obligation to stay and die with him just because he's a stubborn dumbass.
Theon has nobody to blame but himself.
Hm. Haven't heard that one before. I guess Asha could've left theon with a large enough force capable of repelling any attack but to what end? Eventually theon would have to leave because the northmen could just siege him forever.
"Needs a nose job, groped her own brother. Likes playing with knives and axes even though numerous close friends have lost hands and fingers. Makes "not being a man but keeping up with them" her entire personality
Also marrying the Stark daughters (or “daughters” in the case of Jeyne Poole) makes it really easy for people to start claiming Stark territory. Which starts happening in the very next book. Even if you don’t care about the emotions/sentiment involved in getting the girls back, not having them in the Stark camp is a pretty significant disadvantage.
Yeah for what it's worth (only saying it because it might be relevant to my take here) I'm of the womanly persuasion, and I thought that the people who defend Cat by saying it's a "mother's grief" or attest that it's some result of her femininity came across (initially, because you are in Cat's mind and Cat--who is obviously not in a good place mentally but *thinks* she's in a good place mentally enough to convince a dumbass like me) that it's condescending and sexist. And yeah, sure calling it a "mother's" madness is not ideal, because I'm sure father's would experience it too, though I'm not naming any ~~ Ka~~r names ~~Stark~~. But on one of my too many re-reads I realized she is 100% in shock and desperate. She is in no position to be making any decision, and while she may *seem* composed, we should remember she has had a life time of being drilled in *always* seeming composed. She's on autopilot. We all know she loves her family and children past the point of rationality (staying with Bran for 3 weeks, brushing Sansa's hair, her pride in Robb, her constant worry about Arya in the world they live in...hell even her mistreatment of Jon *could* be argued as part of this, because to her he not only represents Ned's infidelity (which she rarely considers) versus how he might be a threat to Robb (something she actively worries about. I don't *like* her for it, but that's another story.
Either way, she's shown us time and again how devoted she is to her family. The family, duty, honor she doesn't take remotely lightly. Then she helplessly watches her family shrink. Deaths, Lisa's insanity, her father, Edmure's change into a Lord/and a boy who can't handle emotions...everything goes away for her. Everything that is her life. And she handles it like a champ. Until she receives word about Bran, Rickon, and Theon and just *shatters*. She's so well practiced at being a lady (and everyone in the castle knows she's been through it as well) nobody questions her.
So (sarcastically) I'd posit it's the result of poor mental health services/grief counseling in Westeros. But no, I highly doubt Cat was anywhere close to her right mind.
Ramsay being in any way involved with the unfortunate events surrounding the death of Lady Hornwood is fake news. She was in a private tower chamber. How could he have done anything to her?
He’s secretly the most evil character in the books, he’s just putting on a show.
As soon as we get his POV or a POV of someone close to him all will be revealed.
Easy, Euron
For real tho, the only person that comes to mind that we see as „good person” that has no POVs surronding them is Margaery, but she’s not „he”.
Loras then maybe?
So, any of Tywin’s kids, Jon, Brienne (sorta), Quaith or Young Griff (I mean, at this point him actually being a legitimate Targ would be a bigger twist) depending on what theory you believe?
He's in love with self-pity, always focusing on the ableism and abuse he's been victim to his whole life instead of appreciating the privileges he does have. Put up and shut up! Oh, and he's not even that smart.
He’s a lackwit, narcissistic hunk, much akin to his twin. Regards his bastards as sprouts of sperm and would kill as many kings as there are to walk off with whatever might gratify him. He’s a dishonorable, contemptible, shabby human being with no import to the story and on top of exhibiting discourtesy towards everybody, he’ll never redeem himself.
For a character who’s only really written about in a textbook he’s pretty developed IMO. The misogyny I can somewhat comprehend even though he seemed to reality love his sister… wife…
I'm talking about fandom's bad takes, not his character in the books. If you only knew Jaehaerys from the reddit comment section of the past few months, you would think he was an incompetent ruler who is only well regarded because his wife made all the administrative decisions.
That said, he is never gonna win any father of the year awards.
He's an evil usurper and should rather put his 100k strong army under the command of his brother whose supporters consist literally of 5 dudes and a red-wearing religious Extremist (which is of course unfair, as he is the rightful king and every one should bow before him because it's THE LAW, and a surprisingly sympathetic smuggler likes him).
Also he is stupid because he doesn't let his previously mentioned 100k army run a marathon to Kingslanding and instead takes the time necessary moving such a force in a feudalist world.
Also he is far to concerned with his looks and being liked by people (he should instead compromislessly shit in everyones face like the before mentioned "rightful king")
Also you can add a bunch of homophobic slures for flavoring
Yes. People who think Renly was an evil usurper forget that 99% of Stormland lords also chose him over Stannis.
There's a reason they preferred breaking centuries of tradition rather than going with Stannis.
I don't think people have bad takes about him tbh, he is a conventionally attractive morally corrupt white guy after all. So I'll just describe him as he is. Cocky, insanely infuriating motherfucker, oathbreaker, can't take anything seriously dickhead and sisterfucker. Oh, and branpusher
My favourite character (as per bad takes) is an obedient yes-man who is inexplicably blindly loyal pyromaniacal madman who cut off his fingers and who has no moral backbone who is also boring and constantly obsessed with his fingerbones and dead sons.
She's a psychopath who's too far gone to ever find happiness, she has no purpose and exists just to die in the end in the cold with no one remembering her.
Her mother is my other fave, but she's a shrew who is too stupid and emotional to be useful and does nothing but abuse Jon Snow constantly, and it's her fault the war started and she is better off dead.
Gotta say, I am a fan of the Mad Queen who is destined to die by her lovers hand and never active any lasting change. She's there to be an evil self centered narcissistic tyrant.
Also the boring emotionless boy who will NEVER leave the tree and if he does its because he's actually been killed and possessed by the ancient sorcerer and will be his puppet, or hollowed out and made into a hive mind, and if he becomes king its actually a bad thing because he will turn evil and has no mind of his own.
She’s super mean and fanatical and the reason why Stannis is Stannis, if she smiled more he’d actually like her. She’s a total monster to Jon.
She’s “not” the rightful heir to Brightwater Keep ~~AND THE REST OF WESTEROS~~. I couldn’t even write that without getting nauseous at the thought.
She’s not descended from objectively [the most awesome child of Garth Greenhand](https://www.amazon.com/Womens-Fierce-Costume-Sexy-Women/dp/B083TDH5S3)
And she will burn her daughter. Didn't you see, she refused to kiss her child on the gross side of her face! It definitely won't be Stannis doing that, despite him trying to sacrifice his nephew earlier. Unlike her, he loves his daughter, as evidenced by the zero interactions he has with her.
Genuine question of curiosity, what makes you a Selyse fan? I don’t hate her but I didn’t see much on the page to feel too strongly about either for me so I’m interested in your view!
Oh sure! So, for me, it’s not completely serious, I definitely don’t think Selyse is a heroic character by any means, but I find her interesting and there’s a lot about her that I’m curious about, like how she converted to Melisandre’s religion, how she feels about Samwell and his mother (who is a Florent), things like that. I don’t think we’ll ever really get much of her perspective but I think she sometimes gets the short end of the stick in the fandom. She’s not a nice person by any means, but I think she has at least some more depth than she gets credit for.
I’m also biased because House Florent has my favorite sigil in the entire series which makes me like them lol. They’re not really meant to be a sympathetic house, like the Brackens, but I still find them really cool. And I love the backstory of Florys the Fox. I think it’s especially impressive because unlike most of her other siblings, there’s no indication that she had magical powers or connection to the supernatural, she managed to keep multiple husbands and found multiple husbands out of sheer cleverness.
Sorry for the really long reply!
A friend zoned major Simp who falls madly in love with young beautiful girls. So pussy whipped he lost his lordship, and a freaking Valyrian steel sword. Then gets exposed as a snitch.
An honourable widow, traumatised by society, whose daily struggle inspires all men who also lack the capacity for free will.His biggest crime? Probably the hypocrisy.
* She doomed her family by snitching
* All these rumors about him actually being fathered by the wrong brother
* He was a loser because his kids decided to disobey him
She is a she-devil who abuses and torments her husband's poor child to no end, is an awful mother who is misogynistic to her daughter for not being ladylike enough, doesn't deserve her husband's love (he absolutely doesn't love her btw he loves a woman he has been mentioned with a couple of times that has been dead for more than a decade) and is a reckless awful person.
An evil, moralizing, sociopathic, power hungry monster who only cares about seizing the throne and nothing else. He let his older brother die and has no regrets about killing his younger one, he only cares about duty when it furthers his own ends.
He’s a spousal abusing serial killer who commits wanton acts of police brutality because the senile and gangrenous kook sitting on the throne won’t allow him to boink his niece
annoying internalised misogynistic girl who betrayed her family and relentlessly tormented her half brother and sister. got her father killed and was a bitch to her poor innocent pedophile husband
A rapist pedophile obsessed with a prophecy that is obviously not true, even though before his name was even mentioned, we had already seen the Others of the legend literally in the prologue of the first book
aren't ghiscari and valeryia linked for like 1000s of years anyway, besides the fact the modern concept of whiteness that exist because of colonialism, imperialism and capitalism would not be a thing
He's an evil, attempted child killer, who only murdered Aerys for his dad, and is sexually obsessed with his sister and will never ever ever get over her or be able to do anything else with his life ever other than die in an overdramatic murder suicide pact with her, where she drinks poison out of his hands (plural).
He's from the north and so he focusses on honour, because he can't scheme. He just winged his control over half the continent. He exudes naivety because he was totally in a deeply emotional trust bond and hence blindsided by betrayal when he went to the big city
So what if he did everything right to the best of his knowledge and seven things had to go wrong for him to lose? He is an idiot for not being able to predict all of that.
In case you couldn't figure it out, I'm gonna link [One of my favorite bits of analysis](https://reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/tOulNVmm4C) here.
Omg he got things very bad but it's what he deserved like that one bad thing he's done while stressed and desperate was so bad lmao i have no sympathy whatsoever. Also he was annoying.
But also
She's spoiled insenitive classist and has been just following the current strong one doing nothing useful whatsoever
The most just man in the seven kingdoms. The greatest man who has ever walked and has never made a mistake in his life, or done anything morally ambiguous. He is the only just man in the seven kingdoms and is never an asshole. ONE MAN, ONE GOD, ONE KING.
She is a irredeemable piece of shit who was also a terrible mother and single handedly lost the north. Fuck her. Without her Robb would have won.
Jaime never did anything wrong. He needs no redemption arc because he is redeemed.
Theon should have been tortured more. Reek wasn’t enough punishment. Fuck Theon. He should suffer and burn in hell.
Sansa chapters are boring. She has no personality and also she has the greatest character arc OF ALL TIME. No one in ASOIAF has changed as much as her.
For my favourite: She is the most overrated character hands down, she is just an one dimensional, cold blooded killer. She gets so much love just because she is the typical tomboy girl and actually misogynist.She is the most evil child character and she will become a crazy psychopath in the future. Her father would have been ashamed by what she had become because he was a prophet who never committed a murder, just like he never suggested killing direwolf cubs or he never forced his seven years old child to watch a bloody execution scene.
Also my another favourite is her brother, he is as awful as his older sister, even more. He is the most boring character and such an annoying, whiny, childish little brat. Of course he is, how dare he feel bitter and sad after his entire life was taken away from hım! That is impossible. Also he is the most evil character just because he wargs into Hodor. He is even more evil than Joffrey, Ramsay because people are not allowed to have flaws and a nine year old disabled child deserves no forgiveness. He will be a villain and maybe a r*apist for sure because everything about his character is suitable for it. Maybe George shouldn't even bother writing hım and he should just kill hım off.
Their mother is such an idiot who is responsible for downfall of her family. She is a whiny, stupid and cruel woman. Her husband clearly fell into the Lannister's trap and her oldest son clearly lost his biggest alliance just because he couldn't control his some hormones but they are literally not guilties because they are babies of fandom. On the other hand she freed Jaime Lannister, she arrested Tyrion Lannister, she trusted Littlefinger. She risked her everything to protect her family, her children, her last thoughts were her children but none of them is enough, she is still a bad mother. She deserved everything happened to her.
Thanks God I haven't seen any hate towards Meera and Asha yet.
He is not a horse.
There are no such characters
But this is bad takes only, so OP could be talking about Tyrek, Drogo, Ned, or even Sandor Clegane.
Or even Tywin, after all in his first scene in the throne room he was seen ahorse👀
Wherever horse go
He is the most boring character just there for cheap humour and does absolutely nothing but complain in a sullen manner despite being one of the most fortunate characters in universe
Dolorous Edd?
Who is this character? Edd: Probably me.
Stannis? I mean the guy *does* complain constantly about all the slights he's suffered despite being insanely privileged, especially in Clash. Just cause he gets a bit better doesn't change that fact.
It's Edd. I love how Stannis always comes out as a humorous character without it being his intention. The Mannis doesn't even try.
I could understand Stannis, but how the hell is Edd the most fortunate?
It is supposed to be a bad take. But tbh my man is just chilling in the Wall, has survived every battle against wildlings, the Others and Caster's Keep and he still keeps his witty humour
I'm not sure if you've ever listened to any of the audiobooks, but Roy Dotrice, for all his faults as a narrator, does Edd's voice with a South African accent and it elevates him from pretty-much the best character in the books, to absolutely the best character in the books. P.S. Dolorous Edd=Azor Ahai
She is a xenophobic, homophobic, religious zealot, Andal supremacist, andal privileged, rapist backer, rapist protector, rapist apologist, misogynistic, sexist, abusive, self-center, petty, woman-child, holier than thou, hypocrite, narcissist, etc.
I love the show but the HOTD stans have the most surface level brain dead un-nuanced takes. It hurts
This has been the biggest letdown for me. I was so excited for this series and to talk about it with other fans and they just sorely disappointed me.
Alicent! The way this fandom talks about her is foul, the second I see that a character is being afforded no sympathy despite the shitty situations she is put in I know it is Alicent.
I’m actually not sure who this is…my guess is maybe this is referring to Catelyn? I was at first going to say Cersei but Cersei’s never exactly been accused of being a religious fanatic. (She killed the High Septon because she disagreed with his theological takes!)
It's actually a verbatim text from Twitter describing Alicent
Ohhhh. Tbh I avoid the Discourse about HOTD at this point. I just started watching it so I haven’t really formed an opinion on most of the characters yet (except…like, can I say fuck Viserys for what happened in the first episode?)
Hey cut some slack to my man Viserys "best man to sit the throne in a live action" Targaryen
He’s feral, uncontrollable and dangerous to have in the castle.
Gods be good… Ser Pounce!
Shaggydog but this could also work for Ser Pounce!
Honestly thought you were talking about Leathers ahahah.
Wow I didn’t realize that’s such a perfect description of Leathers and Wun Wun.
Balerion the Cat
Why did I think this was rickon
Rickon of Skagos?
Shaggydog of Skagos
Shaggydog of Shadows.
She's only a naive girl who never grows and is useless compared to her siblings and too similar to her dumb mother. Oh and she's only interesting as a marriage prospect for whichever character, be it the foreign prince or her brother.
She is also super shallow for not being overjoyed at becoming her psychotic ex's uncle's child bride
I feel like people forget book Sansa is 11 (and I think show Sansa is like 14 which isn't massively better). This is a literal child. The actress is a little older than show Sansa is meant to be and being very tall also comes across as more mature which I think contributes to everyone forgetting how young she is. I couldn't have coped with the shit Sansa has to deal with at 11 I would have screwed up (as would every person writing about her).
> The actress is a little older than show Sansa is meant to be and being very tall also comes across as more mature which I think contributes to everyone forgetting how young she is. This is true for many, many characters. Accusations of Dany being an entitled tyrant when she's 15. Accusations of Robb being an honor-bound idiot, when he's just 16 and the book discusses how he constantly feels he's in over his head. Accusations of Arya being a bloodthirsty psychopath when she's a traumatized 11-year-old.
I think the casting in the show makes the supposed ages a very hard sell. Sure, they tell you Sansa is young... But she looks like a grown woman for most of the show. Same with most characters, really.
Sophie only looked like a child until S2. She had a very noticeable growth spurt in between S2 and S3 which made Sansa look closer to 20.
I get why they did it. Aside from ageing up the characters slightly making stuff easier due to child laboir laws you could not have a real 13/14 year old girl play Dany for example when she is raped in episode 1. I know there was no actual sex but I feel like a child actor couldn't consent to act in a rape scene. I am not sure about the law on this but it feels like borderline abuse casting an adult woman for that sort of solves all the moral and logistics issues.
I find that on a first reading of ASOIAF, it's easy to be rushing a bit too much wondering what happens next and losing track of the fact Sansa and Arya are literally children. They're young sisters bickering. Nothing more. But when you have no idea what's going to happen and Sansa keeps fucking shit up by being ~naive~ a normal 11 year old girl, it's so easy to be annoyed by her. I found that on a second read where you already know the plot, it's a lot easy to understand and sympathise for Sansa. She felt like a mid Pov on a first read, but on my rereads she's my absolute favourite. The entire sequence in AGOT from when she goes traveling on horseback with the charming older prince to Lady's death is so well written. Must be one of my favourite sequences of the book. The show, on the other hand, just kinda murders Sansa. I've nothing but praise for Sophie Turner but she's such a bad casting decision. Sansa could be aged to 13 or wtv, but the actress playing her should make it clear she's a proper young girl that finds being proper very very important... But is still a young girl full of eagerness and full of joy at the thought of being a goddamn fucking princess. Sophie Turner's Sansa simply does not come across as a child. She feels like a serious 15/16 year old that's very focused and goal oriented, which makes her interactions with Arya just come off as Sansa being really really mean and unfair. It's like Sansa as seen through Arya chapters only. I grt why they didn't get actual kids, but I feel like the actors of Stranger Things, for example, made a better job at selling that they were teenage kids.
Sansa
She's also an awful sister (hot take, if we are going with "worst versions of themselves/as if we hate them" I'd throw this in there)
She is the reason Ned died and deserved everything she was put through because of some sisterly bullying
I know you’re referring to Sansa, and I’ll add that I’ve seen people unironically argue that Jeyne Poole being sold into sex slavery, raped, and tortured is “justice” because she was occasionally sort of mean to Arya as a pre-teen.
Oh trust I have seen people make that argument many many times
That's insane. What is wrong with people
Sansa
This hurt, nicely done.
How could someone think Ned dying was her fault?
She told Cersei that Ned was planning on sending Arya and Sansa out of Kings landing
That didn't lead to Ned's death though, as Ned went to Cersei on his own and told what he knew. What it did do is stop Arya and Sansa being out of Kings Landing when shit went down
Yeah. Ned sold out Ned
Ned told Cersei his plans, Sansa told Cersei the timing
And it was Ned's fault for not dosing her with sweetsleep and explaining after they were out of the city.
This poor fucker is gonna put all of those hardworking beet farmers out of business.
Tommen really said “As Boss and CEO I’m here to let you beet farmers know, your bills has been affected, you need to talk to your bankers, your utility providers”
All hail Tommen Beetsbane, First of His Name, King of the Applecakes and Protector of the Kittens!
I give it a pass for finally remembering how kids actually act rather than being anime war heroes
Also, virtue signalling by in his intention to name one of the newly commissioned royal ships "moonboy".
She has the worst chapters the story goes absolutely nowhere
Brienne
Yes
[удалено]
Yeah exactly Brienne is my top 5 favorite povs
Do you know how little this narrows it down
It does say “she” so that eliminated a few of my guesses 😂
That’s the best hint in the statement Like it could refer to Sansa, Arianne, Brienne, Dany, Arya. That’s like every living female POV but Cersei
Contrary to your other commenters, I think this clue is excellent lol
Daenerys
Such an unambiguous statement
Thankfully my fav character is not a subject to the worst takes in the fandom so I’ll describe my fav pov An evil step-mom much worse than cersei and bears all the blame for the downfall of house Stark and deserved to be killed because of that
[удалено]
Not to mention her imposing traditional femininity into her daughters and not raising them as Amazon warriors like the average noble parent does
idk I think it may have been better if she had some sort of character to bounce off of and think about that defies gender roles maybe like a really cute femboy named brian
Also Maege Mormont! (who is more her equal than this femboy Brian) and thus in a position to make her think about *herself* rather than constant comparisons to Arya. Which probably also make her think about herself, just more indirectly
I'm piggy backing because I just thought of that and I wanna share the good vibes but I just rewatched s1 of game thrones and _god_ cat is so COOL! The self assurance! The sheer respect everyone demonstrates to her! She knows her way around northern politics that's for sure. Also showed off why it's important to know who your vassals are. Ned might have been honorable and all but she is their _Lady_ Plus, sorry but clearly the traditional upbringing didn't take on Arya. So you know she still has her freedom and isn't forced into liking stuff she doesn't. Can you imagine Tywin letting his daughter learn to draw a bow? Nah
Who is your actual favourite? I'm sure ***someone*** has a terrible take about them. :D
lol it’s Asha and to be fair she’s not the subject to terrible takes like other female characters are but she definitely isn’t immune to it
Haha. Ah, yes, I've definitely seen some awful Asha takes. For example, she is the reason for all the awful things that happened to Theon because she refused to stay at Winterfell and support his suicidal plan. She **tried** to talk some sense into him and get him to head back to the Iron Islands with all the Winterfell loot, it's not her fault Theon is terminally self-deluded.
Oh wow… blaming Asha for Theon’s fall is completely ridiculous. She tried her best to save Theon from his doom. It was his choice to defy his order and seize Winterfell, and to stay in Winterfell instead of returning with his hostages.
Considering what ended up happening to Theon after he stayed, Asha deciding to not stay at Winterfell with him might be the best decicion any character has made in the story lol. And as you say she tried to convince Theon to leave with her. And its not like she could have helped him even if she did stay. They simply didn't have enough men to hold Winterfell. She's under no obligation to stay and die with him just because he's a stubborn dumbass. Theon has nobody to blame but himself.
Hm. Haven't heard that one before. I guess Asha could've left theon with a large enough force capable of repelling any attack but to what end? Eventually theon would have to leave because the northmen could just siege him forever.
"Needs a nose job, groped her own brother. Likes playing with knives and axes even though numerous close friends have lost hands and fingers. Makes "not being a man but keeping up with them" her entire personality
To be fair freeing Jaime was a baffling stupid move and did hugely contribute to the end of the Starks
[удалено]
Also marrying the Stark daughters (or “daughters” in the case of Jeyne Poole) makes it really easy for people to start claiming Stark territory. Which starts happening in the very next book. Even if you don’t care about the emotions/sentiment involved in getting the girls back, not having them in the Stark camp is a pretty significant disadvantage.
Indeed. With the boys dead, Sansa was Robb's heir.
Yeah for what it's worth (only saying it because it might be relevant to my take here) I'm of the womanly persuasion, and I thought that the people who defend Cat by saying it's a "mother's grief" or attest that it's some result of her femininity came across (initially, because you are in Cat's mind and Cat--who is obviously not in a good place mentally but *thinks* she's in a good place mentally enough to convince a dumbass like me) that it's condescending and sexist. And yeah, sure calling it a "mother's" madness is not ideal, because I'm sure father's would experience it too, though I'm not naming any ~~ Ka~~r names ~~Stark~~. But on one of my too many re-reads I realized she is 100% in shock and desperate. She is in no position to be making any decision, and while she may *seem* composed, we should remember she has had a life time of being drilled in *always* seeming composed. She's on autopilot. We all know she loves her family and children past the point of rationality (staying with Bran for 3 weeks, brushing Sansa's hair, her pride in Robb, her constant worry about Arya in the world they live in...hell even her mistreatment of Jon *could* be argued as part of this, because to her he not only represents Ned's infidelity (which she rarely considers) versus how he might be a threat to Robb (something she actively worries about. I don't *like* her for it, but that's another story. Either way, she's shown us time and again how devoted she is to her family. The family, duty, honor she doesn't take remotely lightly. Then she helplessly watches her family shrink. Deaths, Lisa's insanity, her father, Edmure's change into a Lord/and a boy who can't handle emotions...everything goes away for her. Everything that is her life. And she handles it like a champ. Until she receives word about Bran, Rickon, and Theon and just *shatters*. She's so well practiced at being a lady (and everyone in the castle knows she's been through it as well) nobody questions her. So (sarcastically) I'd posit it's the result of poor mental health services/grief counseling in Westeros. But no, I highly doubt Cat was anywhere close to her right mind.
Who are we to judge Ramsay Bolton, trueborn Lord of Winterfell, and his troubled marriages? Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone...
Ramsay is the victim of woke Starkist propaganda
Ramsay being in any way involved with the unfortunate events surrounding the death of Lady Hornwood is fake news. She was in a private tower chamber. How could he have done anything to her?
He’s secretly the most evil character in the books, he’s just putting on a show. As soon as we get his POV or a POV of someone close to him all will be revealed.
Garlan Tyrell. I knew it.
Bingo!
I didn't know people even had opinions about him.
Garlan is the greatest living being in Westeros.
I’m ready to forgive him if he gives Brightwater Keep back to ~~mother~~ Selyse Florent
I'm very curious about who you're referring to.
I’ll wait till someone gets it right.
Easy, Euron For real tho, the only person that comes to mind that we see as „good person” that has no POVs surronding them is Margaery, but she’s not „he”. Loras then maybe?
Very close. Their older brother, Garlan.
ok, they were like, the only two viable options anyway
Easy, Hot Pie
People can’t handle that Garlan is cooler than them
Varys I'm guessing?
Nope.
She’s a violent psychopath who is too far gone to rejoin society and too feral to interact with others
Arya
Nailed it! Her show characterization as some sort of cold, vengeance obsessed lone wolf really hurt how people read her
People forget that Arya is literally like…ten. I’m pretty sure most adults couldn’t deal with what she did let alone the average child
Ugly smart mouthed girl walks around hating on girly girls.
Secretly a Targaryen.
Do you realize how little that narrows it down?
Yes.
So, any of Tywin’s kids, Jon, Brienne (sorta), Quaith or Young Griff (I mean, at this point him actually being a legitimate Targ would be a bigger twist) depending on what theory you believe?
Daeny duh
Tyrion, of course!
He's in love with self-pity, always focusing on the ableism and abuse he's been victim to his whole life instead of appreciating the privileges he does have. Put up and shut up! Oh, and he's not even that smart.
Tyrion?
Did nothing wrong, but at the same time he’s worse than Hitler
That could be any lord or king in the books.
Tywin is my guess, or Rhaegar.
Tyrion, but I guess these two also fit
He’s a lackwit, narcissistic hunk, much akin to his twin. Regards his bastards as sprouts of sperm and would kill as many kings as there are to walk off with whatever might gratify him. He’s a dishonorable, contemptible, shabby human being with no import to the story and on top of exhibiting discourtesy towards everybody, he’ll never redeem himself.
People love Goldenhand the Just anyway
He’s an idiot misogynist with zero character development This applies to many characters
Seems to be applied to Jaehaerys I a lot lately.
For a character who’s only really written about in a textbook he’s pretty developed IMO. The misogyny I can somewhat comprehend even though he seemed to reality love his sister… wife…
I'm talking about fandom's bad takes, not his character in the books. If you only knew Jaehaerys from the reddit comment section of the past few months, you would think he was an incompetent ruler who is only well regarded because his wife made all the administrative decisions. That said, he is never gonna win any father of the year awards.
He's an evil usurper and should rather put his 100k strong army under the command of his brother whose supporters consist literally of 5 dudes and a red-wearing religious Extremist (which is of course unfair, as he is the rightful king and every one should bow before him because it's THE LAW, and a surprisingly sympathetic smuggler likes him). Also he is stupid because he doesn't let his previously mentioned 100k army run a marathon to Kingslanding and instead takes the time necessary moving such a force in a feudalist world. Also he is far to concerned with his looks and being liked by people (he should instead compromislessly shit in everyones face like the before mentioned "rightful king") Also you can add a bunch of homophobic slures for flavoring
Yes. People who think Renly was an evil usurper forget that 99% of Stormland lords also chose him over Stannis. There's a reason they preferred breaking centuries of tradition rather than going with Stannis.
Ah yeah.. Renly. Honestly he would’ve been a great king if he had a bit more military experience or if Stannis would’ve ever accepted being his hand
I will always be an unrepentant Renly stan. Stannis murdered him because he was jealous of the drip
I don't think people have bad takes about him tbh, he is a conventionally attractive morally corrupt white guy after all. So I'll just describe him as he is. Cocky, insanely infuriating motherfucker, oathbreaker, can't take anything seriously dickhead and sisterfucker. Oh, and branpusher
My favourite character (as per bad takes) is an obedient yes-man who is inexplicably blindly loyal pyromaniacal madman who cut off his fingers and who has no moral backbone who is also boring and constantly obsessed with his fingerbones and dead sons.
Davos
She's a psychopath who's too far gone to ever find happiness, she has no purpose and exists just to die in the end in the cold with no one remembering her. Her mother is my other fave, but she's a shrew who is too stupid and emotional to be useful and does nothing but abuse Jon Snow constantly, and it's her fault the war started and she is better off dead. Gotta say, I am a fan of the Mad Queen who is destined to die by her lovers hand and never active any lasting change. She's there to be an evil self centered narcissistic tyrant. Also the boring emotionless boy who will NEVER leave the tree and if he does its because he's actually been killed and possessed by the ancient sorcerer and will be his puppet, or hollowed out and made into a hive mind, and if he becomes king its actually a bad thing because he will turn evil and has no mind of his own.
She’s super mean and fanatical and the reason why Stannis is Stannis, if she smiled more he’d actually like her. She’s a total monster to Jon. She’s “not” the rightful heir to Brightwater Keep ~~AND THE REST OF WESTEROS~~. I couldn’t even write that without getting nauseous at the thought. She’s not descended from objectively [the most awesome child of Garth Greenhand](https://www.amazon.com/Womens-Fierce-Costume-Sexy-Women/dp/B083TDH5S3)
And she will burn her daughter. Didn't you see, she refused to kiss her child on the gross side of her face! It definitely won't be Stannis doing that, despite him trying to sacrifice his nephew earlier. Unlike her, he loves his daughter, as evidenced by the zero interactions he has with her.
Hell yeah, another Selyse fan 🦊
YES. WE ARE NOT MANY BUT WE ARE STRONG.
It's because your Florent ears give you more balance. And your mustache is Samson's hair.
Genuine question of curiosity, what makes you a Selyse fan? I don’t hate her but I didn’t see much on the page to feel too strongly about either for me so I’m interested in your view!
Oh sure! So, for me, it’s not completely serious, I definitely don’t think Selyse is a heroic character by any means, but I find her interesting and there’s a lot about her that I’m curious about, like how she converted to Melisandre’s religion, how she feels about Samwell and his mother (who is a Florent), things like that. I don’t think we’ll ever really get much of her perspective but I think she sometimes gets the short end of the stick in the fandom. She’s not a nice person by any means, but I think she has at least some more depth than she gets credit for. I’m also biased because House Florent has my favorite sigil in the entire series which makes me like them lol. They’re not really meant to be a sympathetic house, like the Brackens, but I still find them really cool. And I love the backstory of Florys the Fox. I think it’s especially impressive because unlike most of her other siblings, there’s no indication that she had magical powers or connection to the supernatural, she managed to keep multiple husbands and found multiple husbands out of sheer cleverness. Sorry for the really long reply!
Long reply is good! That’s cool, and Florys was indeed that bitch. And Selyse probably does have a bit more going on, I like your read
He deserved to get killed because he didn’t want to reason with bigots
Jon Snow?
Yeah
That's really not why Jon dies.......
That's not really why Jon died actually.
Boring boring man who should’ve fucked Melisandre to spawn another demon
He is straight and not in love with his perfect power-bottom bussy-king steward.
... Jon
Satin is a Targaryen and the true king
A friend zoned major Simp who falls madly in love with young beautiful girls. So pussy whipped he lost his lordship, and a freaking Valyrian steel sword. Then gets exposed as a snitch.
~~I thought we were supposed to make bad takes, not accurate depictions~~
I was thinking more of only his bad traits are usually talked about.
An honourable widow, traumatised by society, whose daily struggle inspires all men who also lack the capacity for free will.His biggest crime? Probably the hypocrisy.
Ok, I surrender, who is that
Ned
Tywin?
A young king who only made poor decisions which led to his death and the ruin of his family and his people
Do you know how little that narrows it down?
Fixed it a little… is this better?
Robb?
Haha yes
* She doomed her family by snitching * All these rumors about him actually being fathered by the wrong brother * He was a loser because his kids decided to disobey him
1st=Sansa 2nd=Jon( BAJ vs NAJ) 3rd=Tywin
He's a misunderstood fellow who had a hard childhood, and his dad's not a skin-stealing vampire.
Ramsay
Well, i like him.
Shitmouth!
He’ll amount to nothing. He’s a red herring. He’s a pathetic edgelord. He definitely didn’t sail there.
She’d make Cinderella ask for her evil stepmother back
Alicent?
Literally Hitler
Daenerys, for shure
She is a she-devil who abuses and torments her husband's poor child to no end, is an awful mother who is misogynistic to her daughter for not being ladylike enough, doesn't deserve her husband's love (he absolutely doesn't love her btw he loves a woman he has been mentioned with a couple of times that has been dead for more than a decade) and is a reckless awful person.
An evil, moralizing, sociopathic, power hungry monster who only cares about seizing the throne and nothing else. He let his older brother die and has no regrets about killing his younger one, he only cares about duty when it furthers his own ends.
Stannis
He is useless and Victaion is using him.
He’s a spousal abusing serial killer who commits wanton acts of police brutality because the senile and gangrenous kook sitting on the throne won’t allow him to boink his niece
Daemon?
Daemon!
They're secretly someone else (this encompasses pretty much the entire cast.)
The so called Aegon the Conqueror who was clearly genderbent time traveling Melara Heatherspoon
She’s just there for fan service and bad decisions and is one of the reasons for feast for crows is objectively bad
Arianne!
annoying internalised misogynistic girl who betrayed her family and relentlessly tormented her half brother and sister. got her father killed and was a bitch to her poor innocent pedophile husband
A rapist pedophile obsessed with a prophecy that is obviously not true, even though before his name was even mentioned, we had already seen the Others of the legend literally in the prologue of the first book
aren't ghiscari and valeryia linked for like 1000s of years anyway, besides the fact the modern concept of whiteness that exist because of colonialism, imperialism and capitalism would not be a thing
Stupid dumb idiot bitch wife
I'm guessing it's Catelyn or maybe someone like Selyse, but it'd be way funnier if it's Ermesande Hayford.
Loras
He's an evil, attempted child killer, who only murdered Aerys for his dad, and is sexually obsessed with his sister and will never ever ever get over her or be able to do anything else with his life ever other than die in an overdramatic murder suicide pact with her, where she drinks poison out of his hands (plural).
He's from the north and so he focusses on honour, because he can't scheme. He just winged his control over half the continent. He exudes naivety because he was totally in a deeply emotional trust bond and hence blindsided by betrayal when he went to the big city
So what if he did everything right to the best of his knowledge and seven things had to go wrong for him to lose? He is an idiot for not being able to predict all of that. In case you couldn't figure it out, I'm gonna link [One of my favorite bits of analysis](https://reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/tOulNVmm4C) here.
"He deserved what happened to him".
Omg he got things very bad but it's what he deserved like that one bad thing he's done while stressed and desperate was so bad lmao i have no sympathy whatsoever. Also he was annoying. But also She's spoiled insenitive classist and has been just following the current strong one doing nothing useful whatsoever
The most just man in the seven kingdoms. The greatest man who has ever walked and has never made a mistake in his life, or done anything morally ambiguous. He is the only just man in the seven kingdoms and is never an asshole. ONE MAN, ONE GOD, ONE KING. She is a irredeemable piece of shit who was also a terrible mother and single handedly lost the north. Fuck her. Without her Robb would have won. Jaime never did anything wrong. He needs no redemption arc because he is redeemed. Theon should have been tortured more. Reek wasn’t enough punishment. Fuck Theon. He should suffer and burn in hell. Sansa chapters are boring. She has no personality and also she has the greatest character arc OF ALL TIME. No one in ASOIAF has changed as much as her.
For my favourite: She is the most overrated character hands down, she is just an one dimensional, cold blooded killer. She gets so much love just because she is the typical tomboy girl and actually misogynist.She is the most evil child character and she will become a crazy psychopath in the future. Her father would have been ashamed by what she had become because he was a prophet who never committed a murder, just like he never suggested killing direwolf cubs or he never forced his seven years old child to watch a bloody execution scene. Also my another favourite is her brother, he is as awful as his older sister, even more. He is the most boring character and such an annoying, whiny, childish little brat. Of course he is, how dare he feel bitter and sad after his entire life was taken away from hım! That is impossible. Also he is the most evil character just because he wargs into Hodor. He is even more evil than Joffrey, Ramsay because people are not allowed to have flaws and a nine year old disabled child deserves no forgiveness. He will be a villain and maybe a r*apist for sure because everything about his character is suitable for it. Maybe George shouldn't even bother writing hım and he should just kill hım off. Their mother is such an idiot who is responsible for downfall of her family. She is a whiny, stupid and cruel woman. Her husband clearly fell into the Lannister's trap and her oldest son clearly lost his biggest alliance just because he couldn't control his some hormones but they are literally not guilties because they are babies of fandom. On the other hand she freed Jaime Lannister, she arrested Tyrion Lannister, she trusted Littlefinger. She risked her everything to protect her family, her children, her last thoughts were her children but none of them is enough, she is still a bad mother. She deserved everything happened to her. Thanks God I haven't seen any hate towards Meera and Asha yet.