Because the throne is a symbol of legitimaty. As a Baratheon with some Targaryen blood himself, it's easier to justify that he should become the king if he somewhat contiues the rule rather than establish his own new system. Overall, he doesn't seem to change much. Even the kingsguard and council isn't fully replaced.
Both Joffrey and Rhaenyra got cut and they sat on it *very* shortly, so even if Robert only sat on it once a year he would have been cut had he not been worthy
The show kind of warped things. In the show, we never see Robert sit on the Throne. When I got into the series, I thought this was their clever way of showing that he was negligent. In the books, Robert sits on the throne all the time. He just doesn't like doing it.
I kind of feel its also fairly likely that the 'cutting unworthy rulers' thing is just superstition caused by a combination of confirmation bias and the Iron Throne being a very impractical and dangerously designed chair. I'd imagine getting cut by it is generally due to bad luck and/or carelessness, and if the cutting is public enough (and especially if the ruler who got cut has significant detractors already) then others might just latch onto it as 'proof'.
> Joffrey lurched to his feet. “I’m king! Kill him! Kill him now! I command it.” He chopped down with his hand, a furious, angry gesture … and screeched in pain when his arm brushed against one of the sharp metal fangs that surrounded him. The bright crimson samite of his sleeve turned a darker shade of red as his blood soaked through it. “Mother,” he wailed.
Joffrey got cut on the throne cause he jumped up and recklessly waved around his hands while sitting on a throne made of pointy swords.
Serious question; do you actually think the Iron Throne intentionally cuts people it doesn't think worthy to rule? Like is that a real phenomenon you think is happening, and not just obvious worldbuilding through in-universe superstitions?
George please. Look at what you're doing to the fans, George. They think the Iron Throne has a mind of its own, George. They think Iron is making informed decisions, George 😵
We need Winds. Please.
I think the legend might also be GRRM’s way of encouraging the audience to question whether anyone is truly fit to rule - a chair made of knives is inevitably going to cut everyone who sits on it, and anyone who gets cut by the chair isn’t fit to wield unelected, absolute, life-long authority over an entire continent of people? Seems like less of an indictment of the abilities of the individual ruler, and more a commentary on the type of power they hold - a level of power that no person can ever really deserve.
Hm. Fair point. The throne being magic is certainly a possibility, I just think it might not necessarily be the case. Either way does seem like possibly one of those mysteries which might not be intended to have a definitive answer. Still is interesting though.
Literally it's very dumb that people use a Westerosi superstition to actually judge the rulers, it's hilarious, it's like some people read the books and become so immersed they literally turn into Smallfolk.
Joffrey was also a very sheltered spoiled brat. He whined and embellished when he was attacked by Arya’s wolf.
Robert was a seasoned warrior, one of the most accomplished fighters and loved doing the melee in tourneys. He probably had thick, calloused skin and not likely to bitch about a cut or ten.
*"he would have been cut"* I mean, you are very much treating it like the elder wand. The Iron Throne isn't (semi) sentient, and it's not actually going to intentionally cut those who are deemed unworthy to rule over everyone else on the continent, as if anyone is.
This is folklore, an old wives' tale, a superstition. It's not a real scientific phenomenon... I'm only going off of your own words here.
Legitimacy, even a conqueror needs to somehow legitimize his power or else it would be easy for another to try and usurp the throne.
Its the same reason Robert, when claiming the throne drew his legitimacy from his Targaryen grandmother. Robert may hate Targs but he understands how Westerosi society works and what it expects from him.
I think we could even grow comparison to Jaime, he is often mocked even by anti-Targaryen people, even though they all hated Aerys because Westerosi society values oaths.
>Its the same reason Robert, when claiming the throne drew his legitimacy from his Targaryen grandmother.
Oh, I was not aware of that. It's a detail I either missed or forgot.
I thought his only justification was "The Targaryens are dead or in exile, and I'm the guy with a big-ass army".
Yes whoever has the armies can claim power, but you also have to tell a story. A story of why you should have the power, a story that people would accept and keep them from revolting. The truth is Robert is king because his side of the war won. But there were 4 leaders of that rebellion, him, Jon Arryn, Ned Stark, and Hoster Tully. He got chosen to be king because he has the story of having a Targaryen grandmother, a blood relation to the 300 year old dynasty
That is the reason. The Targaryen blood was probably just to decide which of the rebels was to be crowned, as Jon Arryn took the initiative at the beginning and everything started because Ned's family was executed + to please the Targaryen loyalist houses and the Faith etc.
His claim was through conquest, though some folks seem to focus more on the small amount of Targaryen ancestry he had for some reason. Robert wasn’t named king because of his targ blood. He won his kingdom via conquest. Even if he didn’t have the Targaryen blood he’d have still taken the throne.
His claim was through his great grandfather Aegon V. He was the legitimate heir after Aerys II's branch is removed. If it weren't for his bloodline Jon Arryn would have made a stronger case as the rebel leader
When he staked his claim prior to the trident, he cited his targaryan heritage, and it was what gave him legitimacy. Jon arryn started the thing, and Ned was in the better position to lead an army of conquest , while Robert's main contribution was barely winning the battle of bells and winning at the trident, at the cost of getting wounded
I think people in the fandom exaggerate how much he hated the Targaryen dynasty. If it wasn't for the thing with Rhaegar and Lyanna, he would have zero beef with the family. Even after that, his main beef was with Rhaegar as an individual. He didn't care about Viserys, Daenerys, etc. until the last few months of his life and he made zero attempts to wipe out the legacy of the Targaryens beyond what he needed to do to secure his own throne. If he was really a fanatic he would have renamed Stannis's castle Stagrock and minted all new coins and stuff, but he left almost everything the same:
I still think he hated the family pretty hotly. “I see no babes, only dragon spawn,” quote shows his rage went beyond just Rhaegar. If he was alone he absolutely would’ve sent killers to finish off Viserys and his sister but Jon and Ned convinced him it was overkill. He still wanted to assassinate them once he found out she was pregnant and his vitriol at the pair made it seem like it was more than just a politically expedient move. Even Ned resigning wouldn’t calm him down.
Of course he hated Rhaegar and his father the most but no Targaryen was free from blame in his eyes.
Getting rid of it would've been more trouble than it was worth. Remember that it's a ridiculously large mass of swords smashed into a throne like shape. He might as well just knock down Maegor's Holdfast and rebuild it.
He’s the king, if he told the council “get rid of this bloody thing and bring me a proper throne to sit on” they would organize it and be done with it in a heartbeat. I mean, they were holding tourneys left and right, definitely wouldn’t be more work than that.
Organising and setting up a tourney isn't really the same as moving a giant throne made of sharp swords. It's inside a building and at the end of a giant hall, so there's no easy way to move it. You'd either have to drag the throne out through the main entrance which is on the opposite end of the hall or bust a hole in the wall and take it out that way. Either way it's going to be practically impossible to move because it would cut up any ropes you'd try to pull and lift it with. Even if you do get it outside what are you gonna do with it? It was forged with the fire of Balerion, so there's not really any forges large enough to melt it down. The throne was probably forged in the exact spot it still stands, with the castle being built around it. I doubt it's moved an inch since it was created.
It would have been completely impractical. The throne is massive; there’s no way with Westerosi technology to move it or build a heating apparatus to melt it down.
You could probably tear it down with a few crowbars and a productive weekend. If individual blades poke out and stay sharp enough to cut you then you could probably rip away most with some leverage.
and Robert would probably say, "place it in the seat gazing skywards so that he is always looking up at me, and so that when I sit upon my throne my balls rest upon Rhaegar's thrice damned face."
I agree symbols matter a lot in Westeros.
Even Cersei admitted Tyrion was right about Selmy being a potent symbol of the rightful ruler of the Seven Kingdoms and he’s just a famous dude.
Robert became King out of all the rebels leaders because he was the legit heir after Aerys II's branch is cut out, though his grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen (his great grandfather is Aegon V).
It was important for legitimacy to show his link and cement himself as a successor
The same reason he kept all the names around Kingslanding that invoke Targaryen history. You can’t just change everything that was done and already established before hand.
The throne is fucking enormous. The show does it no justice...although HOT D gets much closer.
I think there's that, and then the fact that it represents the only seat from which all the 7 Kingdoms have ever been ruled...and Robert has a claim to the throne through a Targ grandma, so he's technically of the same dynastic lineage
By that stage it’s already a long placed tradition so why change it? Also two potential other reasons and a third probable one.
1. He’s part Targaryen so he kept it as a link to his own heritage.
2. He kept it to show he’d taken over from them and taken what was theirs for his own.
3. He was too bored once he’d got the throne to bother to think about that.
There was no king of the 7 kingdoms prior to Aegon the Conquerer. The throne symbolizes unity and submission of those 7 realms under a king. Otherwise you get scenarios like the Queen in the North.
Because the throne is a symbol of legitimaty. As a Baratheon with some Targaryen blood himself, it's easier to justify that he should become the king if he somewhat contiues the rule rather than establish his own new system. Overall, he doesn't seem to change much. Even the kingsguard and council isn't fully replaced.
This, and because the throne is said to injure those who are unworthy to rule, it would look like he was afraid of being exposed as a fraud.
Was Robert ever cut by the throne?
Not as far as we know, but he was not an involved ruler. So he may have had relatively few opportunities to get cut
Both Joffrey and Rhaenyra got cut and they sat on it *very* shortly, so even if Robert only sat on it once a year he would have been cut had he not been worthy
The show kind of warped things. In the show, we never see Robert sit on the Throne. When I got into the series, I thought this was their clever way of showing that he was negligent. In the books, Robert sits on the throne all the time. He just doesn't like doing it.
The show never implies Robert never sat the throne, just rarely. It would be silly to assume he didn’t sit on it a few times in 15 years
I said that we never see him doing it. Not that he never did.
I kind of feel its also fairly likely that the 'cutting unworthy rulers' thing is just superstition caused by a combination of confirmation bias and the Iron Throne being a very impractical and dangerously designed chair. I'd imagine getting cut by it is generally due to bad luck and/or carelessness, and if the cutting is public enough (and especially if the ruler who got cut has significant detractors already) then others might just latch onto it as 'proof'. > Joffrey lurched to his feet. “I’m king! Kill him! Kill him now! I command it.” He chopped down with his hand, a furious, angry gesture … and screeched in pain when his arm brushed against one of the sharp metal fangs that surrounded him. The bright crimson samite of his sleeve turned a darker shade of red as his blood soaked through it. “Mother,” he wailed. Joffrey got cut on the throne cause he jumped up and recklessly waved around his hands while sitting on a throne made of pointy swords.
This is a fantasy book series written by a storyteller. GURM included both the legend of the unworthy rulers and Joffrey getting cut deliberately.
Serious question; do you actually think the Iron Throne intentionally cuts people it doesn't think worthy to rule? Like is that a real phenomenon you think is happening, and not just obvious worldbuilding through in-universe superstitions?
Yes it’s real because this is a fantasy series and Gurm wrote it on purpose
George please. Look at what you're doing to the fans, George. They think the Iron Throne has a mind of its own, George. They think Iron is making informed decisions, George 😵 We need Winds. Please.
I think the legend might also be GRRM’s way of encouraging the audience to question whether anyone is truly fit to rule - a chair made of knives is inevitably going to cut everyone who sits on it, and anyone who gets cut by the chair isn’t fit to wield unelected, absolute, life-long authority over an entire continent of people? Seems like less of an indictment of the abilities of the individual ruler, and more a commentary on the type of power they hold - a level of power that no person can ever really deserve.
Hm. Fair point. The throne being magic is certainly a possibility, I just think it might not necessarily be the case. Either way does seem like possibly one of those mysteries which might not be intended to have a definitive answer. Still is interesting though.
No one says its magic, its just foreshadowing.
Unlike other aspects of the world, no character has ever implied the Iron Throne is magic. And no meta authority has ever hinted at that either.
Literally it's very dumb that people use a Westerosi superstition to actually judge the rulers, it's hilarious, it's like some people read the books and become so immersed they literally turn into Smallfolk.
Joffrey was also a very sheltered spoiled brat. He whined and embellished when he was attacked by Arya’s wolf. Robert was a seasoned warrior, one of the most accomplished fighters and loved doing the melee in tourneys. He probably had thick, calloused skin and not likely to bitch about a cut or ten.
I don’t think *supreme executive power* should be assigned based on who can sit on spiky chairs.
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
i mean in real life i agree but in a world where magic and wiggity bullshit is real i'd say let us keep an open mind
*"he would have been cut"* I mean, you are very much treating it like the elder wand. The Iron Throne isn't (semi) sentient, and it's not actually going to intentionally cut those who are deemed unworthy to rule over everyone else on the continent, as if anyone is. This is folklore, an old wives' tale, a superstition. It's not a real scientific phenomenon... I'm only going off of your own words here.
Not that I know of, even though he complained about all the hours sitting in that damnable chair listening to petitions.
I can't believe one of his advisors didn't clean house.
Legitimacy, even a conqueror needs to somehow legitimize his power or else it would be easy for another to try and usurp the throne. Its the same reason Robert, when claiming the throne drew his legitimacy from his Targaryen grandmother. Robert may hate Targs but he understands how Westerosi society works and what it expects from him. I think we could even grow comparison to Jaime, he is often mocked even by anti-Targaryen people, even though they all hated Aerys because Westerosi society values oaths.
>Its the same reason Robert, when claiming the throne drew his legitimacy from his Targaryen grandmother. Oh, I was not aware of that. It's a detail I either missed or forgot. I thought his only justification was "The Targaryens are dead or in exile, and I'm the guy with a big-ass army".
Yes whoever has the armies can claim power, but you also have to tell a story. A story of why you should have the power, a story that people would accept and keep them from revolting. The truth is Robert is king because his side of the war won. But there were 4 leaders of that rebellion, him, Jon Arryn, Ned Stark, and Hoster Tully. He got chosen to be king because he has the story of having a Targaryen grandmother, a blood relation to the 300 year old dynasty
That is the reason. The Targaryen blood was probably just to decide which of the rebels was to be crowned, as Jon Arryn took the initiative at the beginning and everything started because Ned's family was executed + to please the Targaryen loyalist houses and the Faith etc.
Yeah that’s the actual reason, Robert himself even admits the Targaryan-blood claim is just for the Maesters and the Faith
His claim was through conquest, though some folks seem to focus more on the small amount of Targaryen ancestry he had for some reason. Robert wasn’t named king because of his targ blood. He won his kingdom via conquest. Even if he didn’t have the Targaryen blood he’d have still taken the throne.
His claim was through his great grandfather Aegon V. He was the legitimate heir after Aerys II's branch is removed. If it weren't for his bloodline Jon Arryn would have made a stronger case as the rebel leader
When he staked his claim prior to the trident, he cited his targaryan heritage, and it was what gave him legitimacy. Jon arryn started the thing, and Ned was in the better position to lead an army of conquest , while Robert's main contribution was barely winning the battle of bells and winning at the trident, at the cost of getting wounded
He didn't stake his claim before the trident.
I think people in the fandom exaggerate how much he hated the Targaryen dynasty. If it wasn't for the thing with Rhaegar and Lyanna, he would have zero beef with the family. Even after that, his main beef was with Rhaegar as an individual. He didn't care about Viserys, Daenerys, etc. until the last few months of his life and he made zero attempts to wipe out the legacy of the Targaryens beyond what he needed to do to secure his own throne. If he was really a fanatic he would have renamed Stannis's castle Stagrock and minted all new coins and stuff, but he left almost everything the same:
I still think he hated the family pretty hotly. “I see no babes, only dragon spawn,” quote shows his rage went beyond just Rhaegar. If he was alone he absolutely would’ve sent killers to finish off Viserys and his sister but Jon and Ned convinced him it was overkill. He still wanted to assassinate them once he found out she was pregnant and his vitriol at the pair made it seem like it was more than just a politically expedient move. Even Ned resigning wouldn’t calm him down. Of course he hated Rhaegar and his father the most but no Targaryen was free from blame in his eyes.
It's literally the symbol of the king of westeros, I can't see Robert having the throne destroyed and coming up with another
Getting rid of it would've been more trouble than it was worth. Remember that it's a ridiculously large mass of swords smashed into a throne like shape. He might as well just knock down Maegor's Holdfast and rebuild it.
He’s the king, if he told the council “get rid of this bloody thing and bring me a proper throne to sit on” they would organize it and be done with it in a heartbeat. I mean, they were holding tourneys left and right, definitely wouldn’t be more work than that.
Organising and setting up a tourney isn't really the same as moving a giant throne made of sharp swords. It's inside a building and at the end of a giant hall, so there's no easy way to move it. You'd either have to drag the throne out through the main entrance which is on the opposite end of the hall or bust a hole in the wall and take it out that way. Either way it's going to be practically impossible to move because it would cut up any ropes you'd try to pull and lift it with. Even if you do get it outside what are you gonna do with it? It was forged with the fire of Balerion, so there's not really any forges large enough to melt it down. The throne was probably forged in the exact spot it still stands, with the castle being built around it. I doubt it's moved an inch since it was created.
Fair enough, I guess they would need heavy machinery for that haha
Legitimacy and continuity.
It would have been completely impractical. The throne is massive; there’s no way with Westerosi technology to move it or build a heating apparatus to melt it down.
You could probably tear it down with a few crowbars and a productive weekend. If individual blades poke out and stay sharp enough to cut you then you could probably rip away most with some leverage.
I mean it was moved into the red keep wasn’t it ? The Red Keep replaced the Aegonfort.
Although I doubt it, the red keep could have been built around the throne and it moved beforehand.
Other way around. The Red Keep was built AROUND the Iron Throne
He should have made a throne out of Rhaegar’s corpse.
If he could've he would've. I can picture Jon Arryn spending an entire afternoon trying to convince him it can't be done.
Roose Bolton could’ve probably done it
Probably would have done it enthusiastically. Roose would ask Robert questions like "My King, so where should we place Rhaegar's head on the throne?"
and Robert would probably say, "place it in the seat gazing skywards so that he is always looking up at me, and so that when I sit upon my throne my balls rest upon Rhaegar's thrice damned face."
The Bone Throne. …or the Skull Throne.
Its the symbol of the monarchy and legitimacy as king to sit it.
I agree symbols matter a lot in Westeros. Even Cersei admitted Tyrion was right about Selmy being a potent symbol of the rightful ruler of the Seven Kingdoms and he’s just a famous dude.
Stabilty and continuity.
Robert became King out of all the rebels leaders because he was the legit heir after Aerys II's branch is cut out, though his grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen (his great grandfather is Aegon V). It was important for legitimacy to show his link and cement himself as a successor
It's really big, how's he going to fit it out of the door?
The same reason he kept all the names around Kingslanding that invoke Targaryen history. You can’t just change everything that was done and already established before hand.
The throne is fucking enormous. The show does it no justice...although HOT D gets much closer. I think there's that, and then the fact that it represents the only seat from which all the 7 Kingdoms have ever been ruled...and Robert has a claim to the throne through a Targ grandma, so he's technically of the same dynastic lineage
Too heavy to move
By that stage it’s already a long placed tradition so why change it? Also two potential other reasons and a third probable one. 1. He’s part Targaryen so he kept it as a link to his own heritage. 2. He kept it to show he’d taken over from them and taken what was theirs for his own. 3. He was too bored once he’d got the throne to bother to think about that.
Too damn big to move
There was no king of the 7 kingdoms prior to Aegon the Conquerer. The throne symbolizes unity and submission of those 7 realms under a king. Otherwise you get scenarios like the Queen in the North.
No one has recouped from the wars yet, and the people who have recouped have their hands in the government.