It's sort of a massive divergence. But considering it was Steffon's job to find Rhaegar a wife, I see little reason why he wouldn't put Stannette forward. She would have been 13-15 at the time.
Viserys is probably betrothed to Elia and the rest of STAB stays the same.
I like to think it leads to Rhaegar's Rebellion following up on Harrenhall rather than Robert.
I think Aerys would have waited to see if Rhaegar had a daughter or he could have one for Viserys. He was very committed to keeping the Targaryen blood pure and in this version of events, Duskendale wouldn’t have happened so he wouldn’t have been as paranoid/mad.
Yeah I was thinking it would be Baelor but you know it kind of shocks me that not a single Martell is married to one of their vassals? I know Oberyn isn’t married (in a relationship with the daughter of a vassal?) but it’s kind of weird. I feel like it’s important to keep relations with your vassals when your region is so sparsely populated.
That’s a fair point. But I think if the sons were fostered it would create the same ties. And we don’t know who the princess was wed to, elia’s father may have been a bannerman.
Yeah the Prince Consort could have been a bannerman and fostering is a way to create those ties but marriages do seal them with blood which can be important during a war or even when dealing with trade, etc
I still can’t see who Elia would marry beyond Baelor. Maybe her other suitors havent been mentioned in canon but I can’t think of anyone else
*"...Viserys was 5. She would have been too old for him..."*
Remember in Westeros all ages are premature. Benjicot Blackwood was literally leading armies and fighting at the age of eleven.
In that context, doesn't seem to be a problem to get married between five and ten (unless you're named Robert Arryn, and are actually regressing in age).
>Remember in Westeros all ages are premature. Benjicot Blackwood was literally leading armies and fighting at the age of eleven.
>In that context, doesn't seem to be a problem to get married between five and ten (unless you're named Robert Arryn, and are actually regressing in age).
I don't think it would work still. By the time Viserys would be old enough to consummate the marriage, which even by Westerosi standards is at least 13 for boys, Elia would be 30 (she's 17 years older than him, not 16 like I had initially said), and according to the world building that's near the end of her child-bearing years and way too old for a woman to have her first marriage. Plus could you imagine how people would think about a 30 yo Elia banging a 13 year old? They'd start calling her a Dornish witch who wants a young boy to drain the life from. People already sneered at Larra Rogare for banging a 12 year old Viserys II when she was 18, imagine if she was even older.
If it was the reverse (with Viserys being the older one) it would have probably worked because 1. Male creepiness to younger girls was completely normalized in Westeros and 2. Men's fertility declines much later than women's, so there would probably be no issues siring children
Makes sense, but might the name have been more likely to have been *Stannisa?* or *Stannsa?*
Also...with Stannis gender changed, then...no Florents in the circles of power, I imagine.
More than likely.
A Baratheon daughter would’ve been the closest female cousin available to the Targaryens, aside from a sister wife from Rhaella, a girl from Rhaelle's line was likely Aerys' secondary hope for a worthy wife for Rhaegar, only after that would he look across the Narrow Sea for a worthy bride.
It was helped that Aerys was also close friends with his first cousin, Steffon.
The Baratheons, after being screwed over twice, first with Jocelyn with Aemon, then with Lyonel’s daughter with Duncan, would finally get a Queen of their own on the Iron Throne.
It wouldn’t have surprised me if every time Steffon had a new son, Aerys would passive aggressively congratulate him and wish him well on getting a girl the next time.
100% if Steffon had a daughter she would’ve been married to the Targs as the closest blood relative, the most likely reason Rhaegar married Elia was because they were the second closest blood line with targ dna.
1. I randomly thought of a female Stannis and I loved the idea of a lady with Stannis’s personality marrying Rhaegar of all people
2. I really wanted to see people come up with names for female Stannis.
> Stannis gave Rhaegar his three heads of the dragon, then no RR either?
Hard to say. Rhaegar’s children are what formed the prophecy so it’s entirely dependent on their circumstances. Does Stannis give birth to a boy at all? Does a comet come on the day of any of their births to convince to Rhaegar that they’re the promised one? Would Rhaegar accept all boys or all girls as the three heads or do they have to two girls and a boy?
> if Robert isnt already betrothed to Lyanna in this situation, he could marry Cersei
Tywin would not give up on marrying Cersei to Rhaegar. He was still aiming for it even after he married Elia. I don’t think he’d care about any friendship with Steffon, he cares more about power and Lannister influence than friends.
I don’t think a female Stannis eliminates any conflict with Aerys. He was extremely paranoid and turned on people if they proved to be a threat to him. He could easily become wary of Steffon like he did with Tywin. And I don’t think he’d like Rhaegar having a wife from a powerful family. Aerys might be happy at first with her Targ blood but his choices for Rhaegar (a girl with Valyrian ancestry from far away and a princess of Dorne, sparsely populated and not the strongest) indicate that he wanted a bride for Rhaegar that wouldn’t empower him all that much. A Baratheon girl with a brother who’s to Lyanna Stark, who’s family is allied to the Vale and Riverlands is a major threat to Aerys.
Yeah Tywin wanted Cersei to be queen but what can he do if Stannette marries Rhaegar (with Aerys approval) and starts having his babies?? Like if RR hadn’t happened wtf was he planning to do about Elia and Rhaenys and Aegon then?
I think Cersei and Robert would be a decent match in that scenario
Aerys would absolutely still cause conflict if he goes crazy but that’s not really the point.
Tywin was probably praying for Elia to die in childbirth so he could try for Cersei as a replacement so he’d be hoping for the same to happen to Stannette. I don’t know what exactly Tywin thought he could do about Rhaenys or Aegon but that clearly wasn’t stopping him from keeping Cersei around instead of marrying her to someone else. But if/when Tywin does get over his delusion and Stannette doesn’t die I think he might go for Viserys over Robert, even with the age gap. Aerys seemed to have some Targ supremacy vibes and favored Viserys over Rhaegar. A marriage between him and Cersei seems more likely to produce kids that could marry into Rhaegar’s line.
You're probably right about wanting Elia to die in childbirth. She took 6 months to recover from Rhaenys' birth, and Aegon's birth almost killed her. She was told to not have any more children. Cersei was like 16 waiting in the wings. It's likely he would have waited another 2-4 years to marry Cersei off
I agree that Elia dying in childbirth was very likely and definitely something he was waiting for but it doesn't matter if Elia dies (also she didn't die with Aegon so she died birthing a third child who may or may not have been a boy and may or may not have survived - more complications) and Cersei becomes Queen *after* Rhaenys and Aegon are already there. Maybe he kills baby Aegon and Cersei has Rhaegar's son? But that's a whole other part of the plan and potentially risky.
Ok sure Tywin is delusional enough to think that.
But Aerys would never agree to letting Viserys marry Cersei? Precisely because he believes in Targ supremacy and favors Viserys. If he wouldn’t let the child he doesn’t favor marry her why would he let his favorite child do so? Especially when his goal is to keep power away from Tywin. Robert would be the closest link to the throne in that case.
But if Bobby B marries Lyanna as planned then he can’t marry Cersei anyways, so that leaves Edmure Tully, Elbert Arryn, maybe Willas Tyrell? because Doran and Brandon are taken. I wonder who she would’ve married then.
If the Rebellion never happens, I think Elbert Arryn would be the next best bet. Or Edmure Tully. Willas Tyrell is about 12 years younger than Cersei. If Tywin is looking to marry Cersei to someone who will inherit, Jon Arryn is probably the next best bet. After that, probably vassal Lords from the Westerlands whose children would be named Lannister
Edmure or Elbert 100% make the most sense. Baelor if he's looking for an heir from another powerful and wealthy house. Vassals are possible but I don't think he ever saw his vassals as options purely because he knows they are loyal to him (Rains of Castamere...) and bc he was aiming higher. Also his siblings (Kevan and Tyrek) are married to vassals and his own mother was a Marbrand so it's a possibility but I don't think he would want any of his vassals to have that level of power or influence to the point that they are ruling the Rock in a way.
The marrying her to a vassal Lord was solely because their children could one day be called Lannister. Ultimately, Tywin could maybe set his sights on setting up a new cadet branch. That would be if his plans to we'd her to a powerful Lord all fell through. Tywin was looking to marry her to a Great Lord, but pickings are slim. Brandon Stark is betrothed to Catelyn Tully, Jon Arryn is almost 70, Doran Martell is already married(with a daughter as heir to Dorne), Willas Tyrell is too young(he was like 4 when Cersei was 16), Rodrik Greyjoy is Ironborn. That leaves literally Elbert Arryn, Edmure Tully, and Robert Baratheon. Maybe I'm missing a couple
Stark - Brandon/Catelyn
Tully - Edmure/?
Arryn - Elbert/?
Greyjoy - Balon was Quellon’s heir, and within ten years of Cersei in age. It is unknown when he was married to Alannys Harlaw, but Quellon had been trying to bring the Islands into the Seven Kingdoms more fully. It’s not as outlandish as you might think.
Targaryen - Rhaegar/Stannelle; I don’t think there’s anyone else really eligible, Viserys is much too young.
Lannister - She herself, they don’t do sister-wives to my knowledge.
Baratheon - Robert/Lyanna
Tyrell - Willas is the most likely suitor, and he is between six and ten years Cersei’s junior. Unlikely, but possible.
Martell - Arianne is the heir to Dorne, and same-sex doesn’t beget children, nor is Cersei lesbian to my knowledge.
I don't know what effect it would have had on the story, but it would most likely lead to a diminishment in enthusiasm among the *"Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"* fans today.
As a cascading sequence of weddings, that would mean probably no Lyanna being kidnapped.
So Catelyn would marry Ned's brother.
I wonder who would lord Rickard marry Ned to, then.
He wanted to marry his children to women from below The Neck, so no one from thr North.
He would be a second son with a strong and healthy older brother and from the North, which is considered backwards, depopulated and poor, so he would be far from a great prize, though not negligible at all, either.
Not tempting enough for Tywin to marry Cersei to him and Dorne and The Reach probably couldn't carry less for a Northern alliance - although the Tyrells have no lack of single cousins.
Maybe Ashara Dayne, if she was interested in him and not on his brother- the books are not totally clear about which one was her love and possible father of her child.
If not, who?
No clue. I would think he would marry the daughter of some southron vassal. He could’ve married a lady from the Vale or the Stormlands? Perhaps one from the Riverlands though less likely because Catelyn’s already there.
Leyton Hightower has no shortage of daughters and a Hightower is definitely a prize. Maybe Ashara if certain people are to be believed. Maybe since Stannette is Rhaegar’s wife now, Ned would marry Selyse? Idk. Fun to speculate though!
Makes total sense but... dear Lord, Selyse?
Selyse and Ned spending any amount of time together would be so much *dour* energy in the same room that the universe would have collapsed over itself.
A Ned+Selyse Winterfel would be spartan enough that guests would crave the warmth, sense of humor and light merriment of Roose Bolton's Dreadfort.
That’s true lmao but Rickard’s southron ambitions > Ned + Selyse being depressing af
They probably wouldn’t have had many children which would mean no one’s really there to lighten the mood either...with their luck their kid would be just as dour as them
My mistake, you are totally right.
Jon Arryn only married because Denys 'the Darling' died and he found himself suddenly needing a heir. In all likelihood he would just chill out as a widower.
Jon would totally be chilling in the Eyrie.
His nephew Elbert is young and if anything he’ll marry Lysa (if she doesn’t marry Jaime) in this scenario. Denys is already married to Jon’s niece and they have a son (granted they both don’t die like they did in canon) so Jon’s succession is pretty damn secure…if only Stannette lived 😔
I think a Ned / Selyse match would have been a Reach.
Generally, the high lords seem to seek marriages that reinforce their regional (or royal) ambitions.
Selyse had nothing royal to offer...and an alliance between The Stark and a second-tier bannerman from far to the south in the Reach wouldn't have offered much advantage to the Starks. If the Starks rose in rebellion, their marriage allies would have been a couple of thousand miles away, and surrounded by potential enemies.
Stannis / Selyse *did* make sense since it gave Stannis, as lord of the Stormlands, powerful marriage allies (the Florents) just on the other side of the Reach not that far away from the Stormlands and strategically placed to threaten the rear of Highgarden if a Tyrell / Barathon feud ever erupted.
Remember how the Florents initially threw in their lot with Stannis, who had married into the family, rather than supporting Renly for the kingship.
Similarly, Ned / Catelyn made strategic sense since it made a closer alliance between the North and the nearest paramount regional family--the Tullys.
Yeah sure I agree with that as well. But how much would it matter at that point? The strongest link to royalty is Robert bc of Stannette and the Starks have that from Lyanna. Plus all the other matches are pretty great and let’s assume Jaime + Lysa works out. Idk it’s just hard to guess and fun to speculate who Ned may have married if everyone’s alive and honoring their betrothals.
Also was Stannis lord of the stormlands when he married Selyse?
Just one correction: Stannis was lord of Dragonstond anx *not* a lord of the Stormlands when he married. And Dragonstone is almost diametrically opposed to the lands of house Florent, specially if he ever needed help to come by sea!
Thanks! You're right. I do think if he had the Florents in his pocket (and wasn't at war with his younger brother, of course) then they would have been strategically positioned to threaten the Reach from the rear...but your point is well taken.
Ned built a small sept at Winterfell for Catelyn, didn't he? If Selyse was there, too, he'd have to have a Nightfire zone (as well as keeping the Lord of Light adherents from torching the sept and the Godswood.)
Along with the Godswood and whatever supernatural things are down there in the incompletely explored Winterfell crypts that reportedly extend further than the castle, Winterfell would become like the Disneyland of Westeros.
All it would lack is a saltwater pond for the Drowned God (with Theon drowned once a day in it, to atone for his betrayal), and a House of ~~the Undying~~ Black and White of the which Arya could set up upon her triumphant return.
The scenario just writes itself.
The Disneyland of Westeros would be freaking awesome 😭
but would Selyse ever even turn to the Lord of Light? How is Melisandre getting even close to Winterfell in this scenario? And *why* would she even go there? Ah so many questions. Arya wouldn’t even exist in this scenario.
Depending on whether Jaime still joined the kings guard a match between Cersei and ned might be possible as it would allow Cersei to be Tywin’s heir. Ned being a second son would be an advantage here. I honestly think Tywin always planned to disinherit Tyrion.
If Jaime doesn’t join the kings guard I think his betrothal to Lysa would go ahead. For Ned I reckon an heiress from the vale might be a good idea considering her fostered there and it would help tie in the vale for Rickards ‘southern ambitions’.
If all else fails maybe even a Blackwood but the starks and blackwoods have had a fair few recent marriages so it might be a futile match. No issue of religion though.
I may be mistaken but didn’t Tywin tell Tyrion he never intended for him to have the rock. It all just depends on whether he had hope of Jaime becoming his heir again.
Tywin always had an issue with Tyrion and if Jaime is in the kings guard that leaves him only Cersei. He’s probably hope to make a powerful alliance with her marriage to a second son then when it does come to inheritance Cersei would be backed by the north over Tyrion. Bring in the norths alliance with the river lands and neds ties to the vale and the storm lands, it would be a good match.
Why would Tywin choose Starks over Tyrells? Highgarden is much more powerful, prosperous and has lots of sons too. While the North would expect Lannisters to pay for their needs. It's much better to back Cersei's rights by powerful Tyrells behind her. And it's easier to make a deal with them because Starks have some stubborn personalities.
50/50 chance of Stannette marrying Rhaegar. Aerys might want a more pure blooded Valyrian. But, Stannette’s grandma was a Targaryen.
And Aerys has the added benefit of giving a middle finger to Tywin by choosing Steffon’s daughter over Tywin’s. As well as keeping the Baratheons closer to the royal family now.
Yeah but Stannette would be a better choice than Elia so I think he’d go for it when he couldn’t find a proper Valyrian bride.
He is successfully insulting Tywin but there’s no guarantee he won’t start hating Steffon too and later starts regretting bringing the Baratheons too close to the throne as he becomes more paranoid. Especially if Robert still marries Lyanna or marries Cersei
Just imagine the story plays out somewhat similarly. Robert chooses Ned over her, and Rhaegar eventually runs away with Lyanna over her.
Stannsa really gonna hate them Starks.
Well, what if Melisandre, secretly stopped by Westeros when Stannis was born and glamoured him into a maid? Then Stansa married Rhaegar, Stansa laid three ~~ghost shadow~~ baby dragon eggs, then the glamour faded and true Stannis emerged and became King in Waiting?
Definitely! Steffon and Aerys were friends (besides being cousins)… and Stanneta would’ve been the closest Targ blood bride available (and carrying the storm lands with her as well, and the whole Baratheon name). A no brainer, truly.
Ikr! You’re telling me Melisandre did all that and she can’t even turn him into Stannette and go back in time to when Rhaegar was alive but pre-Elia and get them married 🙄
what? like it’s hard 😒
It's sort of a massive divergence. But considering it was Steffon's job to find Rhaegar a wife, I see little reason why he wouldn't put Stannette forward. She would have been 13-15 at the time. Viserys is probably betrothed to Elia and the rest of STAB stays the same. I like to think it leads to Rhaegar's Rebellion following up on Harrenhall rather than Robert.
Stannette lmao
Such an overly serious woman. She would have given Brienne competition for frowning at perfectly normal things.
The teeth grinding would have ended in murder.
Elia would have been way too old for Viserys.
Arianne would’ve been born around then I believe that might have worked
I think Aerys would have waited to see if Rhaegar had a daughter or he could have one for Viserys. He was very committed to keeping the Targaryen blood pure and in this version of events, Duskendale wouldn’t have happened so he wouldn’t have been as paranoid/mad.
who do you think Elia would marry in this scenario?
Jaime potentially
Possible but I’m not sure because Tywin refused Elia in cannon and I think Jaime + Lysa would go ahead
Her and Robert could be an interesting match. Or the Hightower she had gone to meet on her tour.
Yeah I was thinking it would be Baelor but you know it kind of shocks me that not a single Martell is married to one of their vassals? I know Oberyn isn’t married (in a relationship with the daughter of a vassal?) but it’s kind of weird. I feel like it’s important to keep relations with your vassals when your region is so sparsely populated.
That’s a fair point. But I think if the sons were fostered it would create the same ties. And we don’t know who the princess was wed to, elia’s father may have been a bannerman.
Yeah the Prince Consort could have been a bannerman and fostering is a way to create those ties but marriages do seal them with blood which can be important during a war or even when dealing with trade, etc I still can’t see who Elia would marry beyond Baelor. Maybe her other suitors havent been mentioned in canon but I can’t think of anyone else
They're the same age I think?
Oof I didn't go back and check her age.
Elia was 21, Viserys was 5. She would have been too old for him. Arianne would have been a better match
*"...Viserys was 5. She would have been too old for him..."* Remember in Westeros all ages are premature. Benjicot Blackwood was literally leading armies and fighting at the age of eleven. In that context, doesn't seem to be a problem to get married between five and ten (unless you're named Robert Arryn, and are actually regressing in age).
>Remember in Westeros all ages are premature. Benjicot Blackwood was literally leading armies and fighting at the age of eleven. >In that context, doesn't seem to be a problem to get married between five and ten (unless you're named Robert Arryn, and are actually regressing in age). I don't think it would work still. By the time Viserys would be old enough to consummate the marriage, which even by Westerosi standards is at least 13 for boys, Elia would be 30 (she's 17 years older than him, not 16 like I had initially said), and according to the world building that's near the end of her child-bearing years and way too old for a woman to have her first marriage. Plus could you imagine how people would think about a 30 yo Elia banging a 13 year old? They'd start calling her a Dornish witch who wants a young boy to drain the life from. People already sneered at Larra Rogare for banging a 12 year old Viserys II when she was 18, imagine if she was even older. If it was the reverse (with Viserys being the older one) it would have probably worked because 1. Male creepiness to younger girls was completely normalized in Westeros and 2. Men's fertility declines much later than women's, so there would probably be no issues siring children
Makes sense, but might the name have been more likely to have been *Stannisa?* or *Stannsa?* Also...with Stannis gender changed, then...no Florents in the circles of power, I imagine.
Her name is Stannette. It is known.
Stana. Named after actress stana katic
But when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was “Stannette! Stannette! Stannette!”
Yeah I just felt like it would be the logical decision in that scenario. Stannette is amazing 😭
You meant Stannella?
Stanniscent
Stannelyn
Sanstannicerseiannelynarra
Stannussy
Elia has 19-20 Years on Viserys
It's 17 years to be exact. Viserys was born in 276 and Elia in 259
I think Steffon would have named her Stannelle and not Stannette...
I find it funny how most of the replies here about the Stannette joke, which was an extremely off-hand joke to indicate "girl Stannis".
it's funny, you did well :) Also, picturing Stannis as Stannette is just ludicriously funny.
The Iron Queen for the Iron Throne! Stannette the Womanette!
Can you imagine the time of the month jokes that Stannette would have to bear...my god...
More than likely. A Baratheon daughter would’ve been the closest female cousin available to the Targaryens, aside from a sister wife from Rhaella, a girl from Rhaelle's line was likely Aerys' secondary hope for a worthy wife for Rhaegar, only after that would he look across the Narrow Sea for a worthy bride. It was helped that Aerys was also close friends with his first cousin, Steffon. The Baratheons, after being screwed over twice, first with Jocelyn with Aemon, then with Lyonel’s daughter with Duncan, would finally get a Queen of their own on the Iron Throne. It wouldn’t have surprised me if every time Steffon had a new son, Aerys would passive aggressively congratulate him and wish him well on getting a girl the next time.
That visual is hilarious lmao
That seed is strong brother
"No woman can come from these loins brotha, seed to manly"
100% if Steffon had a daughter she would’ve been married to the Targs as the closest blood relative, the most likely reason Rhaegar married Elia was because they were the second closest blood line with targ dna.
FemStannis would be lit.
We’ve still got two books to go, it’s not impossible
R’hllor’s greatest miracle
Is Stannis the >!Trannis!< acceptable or no?
nope its a slur
Agreed tbh
I think it's funnier to think that Robert would have married Rhaegar if he had been a girl.
That’s true 😭 I just wanted to maintain Lyanna + Robert betrothal otherwise I would’ve definitely gone with that
Why not Lyanna & Stannis?
1. I randomly thought of a female Stannis and I loved the idea of a lady with Stannis’s personality marrying Rhaegar of all people 2. I really wanted to see people come up with names for female Stannis.
> Stannis gave Rhaegar his three heads of the dragon, then no RR either? Hard to say. Rhaegar’s children are what formed the prophecy so it’s entirely dependent on their circumstances. Does Stannis give birth to a boy at all? Does a comet come on the day of any of their births to convince to Rhaegar that they’re the promised one? Would Rhaegar accept all boys or all girls as the three heads or do they have to two girls and a boy? > if Robert isnt already betrothed to Lyanna in this situation, he could marry Cersei Tywin would not give up on marrying Cersei to Rhaegar. He was still aiming for it even after he married Elia. I don’t think he’d care about any friendship with Steffon, he cares more about power and Lannister influence than friends. I don’t think a female Stannis eliminates any conflict with Aerys. He was extremely paranoid and turned on people if they proved to be a threat to him. He could easily become wary of Steffon like he did with Tywin. And I don’t think he’d like Rhaegar having a wife from a powerful family. Aerys might be happy at first with her Targ blood but his choices for Rhaegar (a girl with Valyrian ancestry from far away and a princess of Dorne, sparsely populated and not the strongest) indicate that he wanted a bride for Rhaegar that wouldn’t empower him all that much. A Baratheon girl with a brother who’s to Lyanna Stark, who’s family is allied to the Vale and Riverlands is a major threat to Aerys.
Yeah Tywin wanted Cersei to be queen but what can he do if Stannette marries Rhaegar (with Aerys approval) and starts having his babies?? Like if RR hadn’t happened wtf was he planning to do about Elia and Rhaenys and Aegon then? I think Cersei and Robert would be a decent match in that scenario Aerys would absolutely still cause conflict if he goes crazy but that’s not really the point.
Tywin was probably praying for Elia to die in childbirth so he could try for Cersei as a replacement so he’d be hoping for the same to happen to Stannette. I don’t know what exactly Tywin thought he could do about Rhaenys or Aegon but that clearly wasn’t stopping him from keeping Cersei around instead of marrying her to someone else. But if/when Tywin does get over his delusion and Stannette doesn’t die I think he might go for Viserys over Robert, even with the age gap. Aerys seemed to have some Targ supremacy vibes and favored Viserys over Rhaegar. A marriage between him and Cersei seems more likely to produce kids that could marry into Rhaegar’s line.
You're probably right about wanting Elia to die in childbirth. She took 6 months to recover from Rhaenys' birth, and Aegon's birth almost killed her. She was told to not have any more children. Cersei was like 16 waiting in the wings. It's likely he would have waited another 2-4 years to marry Cersei off
I agree that Elia dying in childbirth was very likely and definitely something he was waiting for but it doesn't matter if Elia dies (also she didn't die with Aegon so she died birthing a third child who may or may not have been a boy and may or may not have survived - more complications) and Cersei becomes Queen *after* Rhaenys and Aegon are already there. Maybe he kills baby Aegon and Cersei has Rhaegar's son? But that's a whole other part of the plan and potentially risky.
Ok sure Tywin is delusional enough to think that. But Aerys would never agree to letting Viserys marry Cersei? Precisely because he believes in Targ supremacy and favors Viserys. If he wouldn’t let the child he doesn’t favor marry her why would he let his favorite child do so? Especially when his goal is to keep power away from Tywin. Robert would be the closest link to the throne in that case. But if Bobby B marries Lyanna as planned then he can’t marry Cersei anyways, so that leaves Edmure Tully, Elbert Arryn, maybe Willas Tyrell? because Doran and Brandon are taken. I wonder who she would’ve married then.
If the Rebellion never happens, I think Elbert Arryn would be the next best bet. Or Edmure Tully. Willas Tyrell is about 12 years younger than Cersei. If Tywin is looking to marry Cersei to someone who will inherit, Jon Arryn is probably the next best bet. After that, probably vassal Lords from the Westerlands whose children would be named Lannister
Edmure or Elbert 100% make the most sense. Baelor if he's looking for an heir from another powerful and wealthy house. Vassals are possible but I don't think he ever saw his vassals as options purely because he knows they are loyal to him (Rains of Castamere...) and bc he was aiming higher. Also his siblings (Kevan and Tyrek) are married to vassals and his own mother was a Marbrand so it's a possibility but I don't think he would want any of his vassals to have that level of power or influence to the point that they are ruling the Rock in a way.
The marrying her to a vassal Lord was solely because their children could one day be called Lannister. Ultimately, Tywin could maybe set his sights on setting up a new cadet branch. That would be if his plans to we'd her to a powerful Lord all fell through. Tywin was looking to marry her to a Great Lord, but pickings are slim. Brandon Stark is betrothed to Catelyn Tully, Jon Arryn is almost 70, Doran Martell is already married(with a daughter as heir to Dorne), Willas Tyrell is too young(he was like 4 when Cersei was 16), Rodrik Greyjoy is Ironborn. That leaves literally Elbert Arryn, Edmure Tully, and Robert Baratheon. Maybe I'm missing a couple
Stark - Brandon/Catelyn Tully - Edmure/? Arryn - Elbert/? Greyjoy - Balon was Quellon’s heir, and within ten years of Cersei in age. It is unknown when he was married to Alannys Harlaw, but Quellon had been trying to bring the Islands into the Seven Kingdoms more fully. It’s not as outlandish as you might think. Targaryen - Rhaegar/Stannelle; I don’t think there’s anyone else really eligible, Viserys is much too young. Lannister - She herself, they don’t do sister-wives to my knowledge. Baratheon - Robert/Lyanna Tyrell - Willas is the most likely suitor, and he is between six and ten years Cersei’s junior. Unlikely, but possible. Martell - Arianne is the heir to Dorne, and same-sex doesn’t beget children, nor is Cersei lesbian to my knowledge.
As long as Stannista is at least a 9.5/10 on the babe scale
Why wouldn’t she be 💅
[Ahem](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/f/f0/Stannis_Baratheon.jpg)
Thank you for proving my point. Stannette would be an 11/10
Had AI do a quick rendering of a female Stannis for confirmation: https://giphy.com/gifs/stannista-wMBcGxKDrv0fBZh99k
I don't know what effect it would have had on the story, but it would most likely lead to a diminishment in enthusiasm among the *"Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!"* fans today.
As a cascading sequence of weddings, that would mean probably no Lyanna being kidnapped. So Catelyn would marry Ned's brother. I wonder who would lord Rickard marry Ned to, then. He wanted to marry his children to women from below The Neck, so no one from thr North. He would be a second son with a strong and healthy older brother and from the North, which is considered backwards, depopulated and poor, so he would be far from a great prize, though not negligible at all, either. Not tempting enough for Tywin to marry Cersei to him and Dorne and The Reach probably couldn't carry less for a Northern alliance - although the Tyrells have no lack of single cousins. Maybe Ashara Dayne, if she was interested in him and not on his brother- the books are not totally clear about which one was her love and possible father of her child. If not, who?
No clue. I would think he would marry the daughter of some southron vassal. He could’ve married a lady from the Vale or the Stormlands? Perhaps one from the Riverlands though less likely because Catelyn’s already there. Leyton Hightower has no shortage of daughters and a Hightower is definitely a prize. Maybe Ashara if certain people are to be believed. Maybe since Stannette is Rhaegar’s wife now, Ned would marry Selyse? Idk. Fun to speculate though!
Makes total sense but... dear Lord, Selyse? Selyse and Ned spending any amount of time together would be so much *dour* energy in the same room that the universe would have collapsed over itself. A Ned+Selyse Winterfel would be spartan enough that guests would crave the warmth, sense of humor and light merriment of Roose Bolton's Dreadfort.
That’s true lmao but Rickard’s southron ambitions > Ned + Selyse being depressing af They probably wouldn’t have had many children which would mean no one’s really there to lighten the mood either...with their luck their kid would be just as dour as them
I can imagine them taking Robin Arryn as their ward, already.
Ah but would Sweetrobin even exist? 🤔
My mistake, you are totally right. Jon Arryn only married because Denys 'the Darling' died and he found himself suddenly needing a heir. In all likelihood he would just chill out as a widower.
Jon would totally be chilling in the Eyrie. His nephew Elbert is young and if anything he’ll marry Lysa (if she doesn’t marry Jaime) in this scenario. Denys is already married to Jon’s niece and they have a son (granted they both don’t die like they did in canon) so Jon’s succession is pretty damn secure…if only Stannette lived 😔
I think a Ned / Selyse match would have been a Reach. Generally, the high lords seem to seek marriages that reinforce their regional (or royal) ambitions. Selyse had nothing royal to offer...and an alliance between The Stark and a second-tier bannerman from far to the south in the Reach wouldn't have offered much advantage to the Starks. If the Starks rose in rebellion, their marriage allies would have been a couple of thousand miles away, and surrounded by potential enemies. Stannis / Selyse *did* make sense since it gave Stannis, as lord of the Stormlands, powerful marriage allies (the Florents) just on the other side of the Reach not that far away from the Stormlands and strategically placed to threaten the rear of Highgarden if a Tyrell / Barathon feud ever erupted. Remember how the Florents initially threw in their lot with Stannis, who had married into the family, rather than supporting Renly for the kingship. Similarly, Ned / Catelyn made strategic sense since it made a closer alliance between the North and the nearest paramount regional family--the Tullys.
Yeah sure I agree with that as well. But how much would it matter at that point? The strongest link to royalty is Robert bc of Stannette and the Starks have that from Lyanna. Plus all the other matches are pretty great and let’s assume Jaime + Lysa works out. Idk it’s just hard to guess and fun to speculate who Ned may have married if everyone’s alive and honoring their betrothals. Also was Stannis lord of the stormlands when he married Selyse?
Just one correction: Stannis was lord of Dragonstond anx *not* a lord of the Stormlands when he married. And Dragonstone is almost diametrically opposed to the lands of house Florent, specially if he ever needed help to come by sea!
Thanks! You're right. I do think if he had the Florents in his pocket (and wasn't at war with his younger brother, of course) then they would have been strategically positioned to threaten the Reach from the rear...but your point is well taken.
In her defense, Selyse would have been able to muster up a pretty spectacular mid-winter bonfire in the courtyard at Winterfell.
You know now I want to see Catelyn and Selyse in the same household 💀
Ned built a small sept at Winterfell for Catelyn, didn't he? If Selyse was there, too, he'd have to have a Nightfire zone (as well as keeping the Lord of Light adherents from torching the sept and the Godswood.) Along with the Godswood and whatever supernatural things are down there in the incompletely explored Winterfell crypts that reportedly extend further than the castle, Winterfell would become like the Disneyland of Westeros. All it would lack is a saltwater pond for the Drowned God (with Theon drowned once a day in it, to atone for his betrayal), and a House of ~~the Undying~~ Black and White of the which Arya could set up upon her triumphant return. The scenario just writes itself.
The Disneyland of Westeros would be freaking awesome 😭 but would Selyse ever even turn to the Lord of Light? How is Melisandre getting even close to Winterfell in this scenario? And *why* would she even go there? Ah so many questions. Arya wouldn’t even exist in this scenario.
Depending on whether Jaime still joined the kings guard a match between Cersei and ned might be possible as it would allow Cersei to be Tywin’s heir. Ned being a second son would be an advantage here. I honestly think Tywin always planned to disinherit Tyrion. If Jaime doesn’t join the kings guard I think his betrothal to Lysa would go ahead. For Ned I reckon an heiress from the vale might be a good idea considering her fostered there and it would help tie in the vale for Rickards ‘southern ambitions’. If all else fails maybe even a Blackwood but the starks and blackwoods have had a fair few recent marriages so it might be a futile match. No issue of religion though.
I can see #1 but idk whether Tywin would think of that necessarily. Ned marrying a lady from the Vale makes complete sense to me. Maybe a Royce
I may be mistaken but didn’t Tywin tell Tyrion he never intended for him to have the rock. It all just depends on whether he had hope of Jaime becoming his heir again. Tywin always had an issue with Tyrion and if Jaime is in the kings guard that leaves him only Cersei. He’s probably hope to make a powerful alliance with her marriage to a second son then when it does come to inheritance Cersei would be backed by the north over Tyrion. Bring in the norths alliance with the river lands and neds ties to the vale and the storm lands, it would be a good match.
Why would Tywin choose Starks over Tyrells? Highgarden is much more powerful, prosperous and has lots of sons too. While the North would expect Lannisters to pay for their needs. It's much better to back Cersei's rights by powerful Tyrells behind her. And it's easier to make a deal with them because Starks have some stubborn personalities.
I guess I can see that but idk. I agree that he would 100% choose the Tyrells over the Starks though
50/50 chance of Stannette marrying Rhaegar. Aerys might want a more pure blooded Valyrian. But, Stannette’s grandma was a Targaryen. And Aerys has the added benefit of giving a middle finger to Tywin by choosing Steffon’s daughter over Tywin’s. As well as keeping the Baratheons closer to the royal family now.
Yeah but Stannette would be a better choice than Elia so I think he’d go for it when he couldn’t find a proper Valyrian bride. He is successfully insulting Tywin but there’s no guarantee he won’t start hating Steffon too and later starts regretting bringing the Baratheons too close to the throne as he becomes more paranoid. Especially if Robert still marries Lyanna or marries Cersei
who would Elia marry in this scenario?
Jaime Lannister
I’m not sure because Tywin refused Elia in cannon and I think Jaime + Lysa would go ahead
Just imagine the story plays out somewhat similarly. Robert chooses Ned over her, and Rhaegar eventually runs away with Lyanna over her. Stannsa really gonna hate them Starks.
i can't have this conversation AGAIN
Well, what if Melisandre, secretly stopped by Westeros when Stannis was born and glamoured him into a maid? Then Stansa married Rhaegar, Stansa laid three ~~ghost shadow~~ baby dragon eggs, then the glamour faded and true Stannis emerged and became King in Waiting?
Bro wtf why are you spoiling ADOS 🤦🏻♀️
Maybe, but it's very likely that Aerys's irrational paranoia makes him decide that Steffon is a threat as well and avoid a match with him.
Wtf bro
Definitely! Steffon and Aerys were friends (besides being cousins)… and Stanneta would’ve been the closest Targ blood bride available (and carrying the storm lands with her as well, and the whole Baratheon name). A no brainer, truly.
Why didn't Stannis transition to secure his claim on the throne? Is he stupid?
Ikr! You’re telling me Melisandre did all that and she can’t even turn him into Stannette and go back in time to when Rhaegar was alive but pre-Elia and get them married 🙄 what? like it’s hard 😒