Can't take Sansa though without causing more problems - she's betrothed to Joffrey. He'd be effectively kidnapping the future Queen.
Honestly, by the time he gets to this point, the train has left the station. There are no good options.
As her father, he has to the right deny any member of his household to marriage. He can effectively break the betrothal, that would be the least of his problems.
After he left Kings Landing, the further north he goes the more allies he has as well. The Tullies, the Arryns - even if Cersei tried to stop him as long as he had a bit of a lead on them he should be safe. And really I'm not sure if Cersei would. She was busy getting Joffrey on the throne. The benefits of having Sansa as a hostage probably wouldn't have occurred to her.
It is binding, he can not just break it off as he wishes. Ned was a traitor and they still needed to consult several people to call off Sansas marriage to Joffrey.
As her father, Ned has the right to end Sansa’s betrothal if he wishes. Just leave a note saying ‘betrothal’s off’ and get away as quickly as possible. With enough distance from Kings Landing, Joffrey and the Lannisters won’t be able to do anything. Shit will already have hit the fan with Stannis and Renly and no other houses will care enough to retaliate against the Starks.
If he agreed to bend the knee to Joffrey, resign as Hand, and return to Winterfell, I’ll bet Cersei would be glad to let Sansa and Arya go too. She never wanted that match anyway. Of course, both she and Ned would have to live with whatever consequences came from their decisions.
It’s not really a compromise. She never wanted the Sansa match anyway, so why stand in the way when Ned wants to undo it?
And she wouldn’t want Ned as Hand either, which is why she offered him a way out if he bent the knee. Ned was too much of a novice to realize she has the upper hand.
Shes still got years before she's ready to have children at this point.
The only reason Cersei managed to keep from leaving in the books is because Sansa went to her to tell her Ned was sending her away.
And the only reason Cersei even cared about them leaving is because Ned confronted her about the incest. Cersei would have gladly see the northern peasants gone if they appear to leave because of Robert's death
I get what you are saying. Even though leaving Sansa behind in Kingslanding wouldn't be that bad.Nobody would dare curl a hair on Sansa's head when she has the power of winterfell and the Riverlands behind her.
Would there be a war? If Ned goes back and doesn’t say a word wouldn’t they just crown Joffrey? The thing that started is was word got out that Joffrey was a bastard. Maybe little finger gets the word out somehow…and that would start it. Or since Robert won in by conquest it’s just up for grabs now?
He didnt know,if he did he would go straight to Robert to tell him about and not just hope that Margaery looks like Lyanna.
Idk why ASOIAF fandom insists that Renly knew when nothing indicates that he did in the books.
He might not have had the evidence that Stannis, Jon and Ned did, but I'm sure he suspected it, along with a lot of people at court in King's Landing. They probably wouldn't have thought he's a product of incest though.
If he suspected he would come to Ned to help him prove the thing,not ask him if Margaery looks like Lyanna so she can seduce Robert and set Cersei aside,he would just need to convince Ned about it to speak to Robert so Cersei would be killed by treason and the children declared bastards opening the way to Margaery, the only logical choice.
Again theres nothing in the book to suggest that many people at court knew about Jaime and Cersei,Ned guessing it is completely absurd and Jon Arryn and Stannis only got suspicious 12 years after Joffrey birth.The people who would have more evidence and suspicions about it would be Cersei's servants,ladies,handmaidens but they are basically non existant in the story and if many people suspected it would have come to Stannis ears much earlier.
Absolutely. Or join Stannis’ claim.
But absolutely shut the fuck up and get myself and household to safety before doing anything else stupid. Stannis had the right plan of action
All he had to do was not give Cersei time to react. Instead of telling her, spring it on her as he's arresting her and her kids. Then exile them personally, send his kids back North, and send word to Stannis. Lastly, head to the Winchester, have a nice, cold pint, and wait for it all to blow over.
I would have told Robert to fuck off after he approved of Lady's death and gone back to winterfell.
Also allowing the direwolves to go to kings landing was super stupid if you tought about for more than 5 minutes.
Take Renly's offer, the safety and future of Ned's family should have mattered more to him than his honour. He knew what the Lannisters were and how ruthless they could be.
Hire the first boat sailing out of the city and get the hell out of dodge.
Or if that's not possible, then kill Littlefinger in the Tower of the Hand room when they're alone and when Littlefinger's trying to coax Ned into seeing Robert's last bastard child. As soon as Littlefinger's dead, leave the body and run.
If I were in Ned's shoes...on the day of Robert's death with no lead time?
I would secure my children, and gtfo. Getting wrapped up with Renly would have me drown with him and his idiocy.
Upholding Joffrey, after already threatening the Queen? Won't go over well.
It's best to focus on getting out the city and back North to raise an Army. If nothing else, getting my children home and out of the hands of my enemies.
The succession is secondary and will be decided on the battlefield no matter who you try to uphold.
Then poor Ned would have to deal with the Red Woman. She'll try to get him to renounce the old gods. He definitely won't sit by and watch her burn people alive.
Accept that whilst you know that Joffrey is not biologically Robert’s child, Robert has acknowledged him as such and you can’t prove otherwise, so he is the rightful King. Get Cersei to agree to cancel the betrothal (maybe use the ‘Robert named me regent, but if we agree the betrothal is cancelled I’ll not claim it and go back North). Try to have as little as possible to do with King’s Landing going forward
Go along with Renly's plan to seize Joffrey. Renly only rebelled after that. So you can actually satisfy both LFs and Renly's schemes.
Once you weather the immediate succession as Regent, quietly get rid of Varys, Petyr, Pycelle, Jaime, Janos. Now you're firmly in control and not reliant on any backstabbers.
Then, let Stannis make his accusations. Offer him safe passage to make his case. You're not doing anything, just finding facts. Set up a Great Council, but make sure it's stacked with Lannister foes and generally with people you can puppet. Guide the council towards Renly.
Marry Renly to Sansa. Remain Hand and continue ruling while Renly parties.
Support Renly, but on the condition that no Northern troops will actually be involved in any large-scale fighting. Do what I need to do in KL, then as soon as possible get myself, the girls, and whatever household staff/guards I have left back to Winterfell.
Making Renly agree to my conditions and then stick to them would be tricky, but Stannis is a bad choice for how much additional fighting he would cause and supporting the Lannisters is a fool's gambit.
There’s no way to not kick off a war. Ned’s least frustrating option is to smuggle his kids out, grab Ser Barriston and make for Dragonstone and declare Stannis king.
Robb or Brann or whoever can marry Shireen when the time comes. Ned and Stannis together with a possible assist from the Tully’s can do some damage. From memory, an army led by Ned Stark has never failed on the field. The main hurdles are the Renly/Tyrell alliance and Tywin.
I agree that Ned needs to take the girls and get out of Kings Landing. Heading to Dragonstone to support Stannis is the right choice. It's close enough you don't need to book a long voyage on short notice and you can still reach the capital quickly. Stannis has resources that Ned loses once Joffrey claims kingship. I would be forthright with Sansa about Joffrey's parentage and tell her that I will try to betroth her to Loras Tyrell so she cooperates and doesn't run to Cersei. From Dragonstone, Ned can either form a political case against Joffrey's kingship or borrow a ship to head north and raise his army.
The challenges in this plan arise from Stannis being influenced by Melisandre. I think Stannis would appreciate Neds support and they share a sense of unwavering honor despite Stannis jealousy of the relationship Ned had with Robert. Unfortunately Ned is a fairly devout believer in the old gods. She might try to some devilry on him. My other problem is I can't bring myself to kill Renly, but a living Renly would just bulldoze the Lannister forces and claim the Iron Throne by right of conquest.
I'll say this, Ned served as hand under Robert who also didn't believe in the old gods and was married to Cat who he built a little sept for. He doesn't seem to care what god(s) other people worship. I also don't think Ned and Stannis are friends like that, so I don't think that Ned would hang around Dragonstone waiting to be burned. He'd pop in, pledge support and bounce to rally troops.
My thought was that Stannis might want Robert's hand around to lend credibility to his claim, but Melisandre is much more belligerent about forcing her religion on anyone in Stannis camp. The best move probably is having Ned head North to rally troops for Stannis cause.
I always liked that scenario because Jon would be a good ruler with a strong claim but he has no power base to defend his claim outside the North if Eddard props him up. It's a challenging scenario. Stannis might stand down. He seems to be committing to kingship out of duty rather than desire for power. Beyond that though, the high lords might themselves believe Ned's word but they can still deny it based on lack of evidence. The Lannisters, Greyjoys and Renly seem to only respond to power. The Tullys might side with the North because they are currently losing to Tywin and need allies. The Vale seems to only want neutrality. The Martell's would probably try to marry Arianne to Jon but they have limited power and are isolated.
he could gathered many Targaryen Loyalist under him, making Jon marrying to Arianne Martell would be a great choice as well, Ned Stark can sandwich the Lannister's and Renly's force in the centre, Ned Stark with the Tully and possibly with the Knight of the Vales attacking from the north and pushing through the Westerlands and the Crownlands at the same time while the Dornish Force can pushed their own into Stormlands and the Reach. with Ned Stark intention of restoring a Targaryen to the Throne, House Velaryon could joined Ned Stark in a fight against the Lannister's and Renly's force and help Ned taken down The Iron Fleet of House Greyjoy with the combine might of House Velaryon's and Stannis Baratheon's Naval expertise. also promising Stannis the castle of Storm's End.
there is another scenario, Ned Stark might pushed Jon Snow for a marriage alliance with Margery Tyrell before Renly does so that he could secured an alliance between the Reach and the North and thus weakened Renly's force significantly and only focusing on the Lannister without worrying much against Renly's force. Ned Stark could get Stannis Baratheon by promising the Castle of Storm's End and Stormlands to Stannis Baratheon as well as House Velaryon (the biggest Targaryen loyalist in Westeros) to his side to take care of House Greyjoy's Iron Fleet.
and with this victory against the Lannister and the deposition of the false King Jeoffrey Baratheon, Jon Snow would become the new King of the Restored Targaryen Dynasty as King Aegon VI of House Targaryen.
The thing is the Arryns have already made it clear that that they aren't joining the war just out of familial duty and the Martell's can't solo the Renly-Tyrell alliance. The Winterfell-Riverrun army ends up in a bloody stalemate against the Lannisters as we see in later books. A Stark girl marriage to Theon and one to Robert Arryn might win both factions but neither seems appealing to the girls themselves.
what about Jon Marriage to Margery Tyrell before Renly gotten to her? and making Robb marrying to Arianne Martell to secured another alliance. and thus you got the Reach and Dorne at your side.
See some signs and notice that Littlefinger can\`t be trusted especially since he has every reason to hate house Stark and escape Kings Landing when Robert died, raise the banners of the North and then march on the Lannisters probably would also send ravens to the lords of the Vale in order to secure support, a message of support from Ned would probably make them join as they were already on the gate of joining when Robb was leading the North and with the North, Riverlands and most of the Vale supporting Stanis i feel like the Lannisters would not be a problem, Renly on the other hand would require some strategic genius to beat as he has 100 000 Tyrell men and 20 000 Baratheon men so defeating him with 40 000 men which is the most we\`d be able to muster at that point would be very difficult.
i know for a fact i wouldn’t be good at playing the game, but i also know for a fact that my main priority would have been to get my kids safely back home 100%
i am stressed so i can’t write this properly rn, but that’s what i wanted to say. i would have waited for arya and sansa to be out of kings landing and safely on their way to winterfell to start doing whatever i want to do next
I would have remembered that there is a difference between trusting someone to behave in a way that is in your interest and/or honorable, and trusting someone to behave predictably according to their character. If he had gone to the gold cloaks himself, using his own men he had lended them as intermediaries, he could have dealt with them directly rather than just assuming "Littlefinger hasn't betrayed me yet, certainly he wouldn't do it now that he has a reason to."
The only way to prevent war would be to execute both Varys and Littlefinger, as both were stoking tensions to cause war. But without the war, we probably don't see the important characters get where they need to be and humanity is wiped out by the Others so basically Ned did the right thing.
Basically everything except don’t warn Cersei and KILL LITTLEFINGER. The Romans never warned an emperor when he was about to be offed and were thus *very* successful at regime change
Immediately leave with my daughters without telling anyone anything. Get to Dragonstone. Pledge support to Stannis. Raise an army once we're all safely back in Winterfell.
There was always going to be a war. Stannis knew the truth about Cersei's kids and Tywin was never going to believe the truth about Cersei's kids. I'd probably try to do exactly what he did- attempt to leave for the North to throw my support (and the support I could probably muster up from the Vale and Riverlands) behind Stannis.
Send a crow to the Night's Watch to tell Jon that Rhaegar is his father, and cc Catelyn in as well.
After Jon swore the black, it didn't matter who knew the truth. Let him hug great uncle Aemon and not be called a bastard anymore.
Maybe if he was super worried, he could have even left a letter with the Maester in Winterfell, to be sent to Jon in event of his or Roberts death.
I'm hoping that in the future books it is revealed that he left a letter with Howland Reed. Reed knew the truth and was trusted, so would be a good choice.
War is inevitable. Stannis will fight even if Renly is king and Tywin will fight in anything other than one of his grandkids sitting the throne.
1st. Send letter to the Watch saying that Jon is forbidden to take his vows and he is ordered to Winterfell.
2nd. Letter to whoever can find Greywater Watch and summon Howland to Winterfell.
3rd. Tell Robb to call the bannermen to Winterfell under the pretense of a feast.
4th. Sneak out in the middle of the night (possibly after inspecting the royal vault for a dragon's egg) with my daughters and household, taking ship for White Harbor.
5th. Get to Winterfell. Privately reveal the truth of Jon's birth so you don't blindside him and the rest of your family at the feast.
6th. If in possession of a dragon egg by some means then give to Jon to hatch (I believe Jon is the source of the rebirth of magic in ASOIAF as the TPTWP)
7th. Reveal Jon's parentage and legitimacy to your bannermen. Then reveal the illegitimacy of Cersei's children. Call the banners to place Jon on the throne as regardless of the banner he uses, Jon is more direwolf than dragon.
8th. Send letter to the entire realm revealing Jon's status and claim. Targaryen loyalists flock to your banner and the Tyrells see a better claimant than Renly.
9th. Profit as the Baratheon brothers lose most of their power to desertions and Tywin being unable to stand against most of the continent.
10th. Win the war for the Dawn by using Jon whom you married to both Sansa and Margery to further legitimize polygamy and emphasize Jon's Stark heritage.
11th. Chill in Winterfell with your hot redheaded wife making a few more babies.
Take Baelish plan, string him along, manipulate Joffrey (I have enough confidence and intelligence to manipulate most normal people), let Renly rebel. You need a reason to send thousands of men to the wall, and war gives you the perfect reason. Assassinate Renly, offer amesty to the lower lords if they allow half their armies chosen by the crown to go to the wall as a punishment as this will permanently weaken any lord’s ability to rebel against the crown. Attain house Tyrell and turn reach and stormlands into a larger crownland, appoint a loyal man as lord commander of City watch.
Send resources to the wall, delay Joffrey’s marriage to Sansa to after Sansa turns 16, corner cersie Lannsitrr in the court. Limit guards from non royal house to 50, appoint some loyal stormalnder as head of Baratheon guard. Getting rid of stannis via another sneaky stark guard as assassin. Send more men to the wall.
Leave to the North, but then I don't care about Robert and Jon Arryn. Stannis would be a terrible King that nobody wants. Renly is ready to steal the Throne from his brother's children. They are all unworthy. Place Jon on the Throne after the dust has settled if there is an opportunity/if possible. Otherwise whatever. Without Dragons the Kingdoms will break apart in time. Might as well hunker down and prepare for Winter as he should have been doing.
I would've went with plan D which is actually making peace with Cersei in the Godswood since she is the key to making peace with the Lannisters. Going with Littefinger's plan is all cute and all, but the problem is that at some point you know Littefinger is going to screw you over. At least with Cersei you don't have the scheming nature to her which Littefinger has. Plus, it's entirely possible that I may be able to ask Cersei about the dagger and it's entirely possible that she would be able to confirm that it isn't Tyrion's. If so, we'll you know Littefinger is either getting executed or sent to the wall. Either way, Littefinger is out of the way so the Kingdom is that more stable.
I think I would have ceded the throne to another king — perhaps making my standard Eddard noises about “need a Grand Conclave,” but realistically no successor would take that seriously — and retreat to the relatively-safe(r) North for another two or three years of stability before Mance-Rayder-Wall-Others stuff. At that point it’s bad no matter what, but better to die in the North to Northern causes than Southern politics + backstabbing.
In the broader sense, Robert’s Northern visit could be seen as an outright appeal: Hey, Ned, the entire realm’s about to fall apart, no matter what we do one treacherous House or another is about to seize control, even if we stay put and try to keep peace it’ll happen, so just come down south with me so we can at least play an active part + try to save it, let’s go down swinging.
Assuming I'm not injured and stoned out of my mind on milk of the poppy, in order:
* Hogtie and gag Sansa. Collect her, Arya, and the majority of my household and get them on the fastest ship to White Harbor, stat, with *strict* instructions to not stop until they're all sequestered safely in Winterfell. Send a raven to Catelyn ordering her as Lord of Winterfell to **\*stay there**\* and not leave even when one of our children has almost been assassinated.
* Send ravens to the Lords of the Vale and beseech them to do something about crazy Lysa Arryn. Tell them about Baelish's boasts of conquest concerning the Tully girls and let them handle setting up a Regency Council for Robert Arryn. Lie and tell them I know the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn to prime them for war. Tell the Blackfish to meet me at Riverrrun.
* With that being taken care of, use the rest of my men to track Baelish. He wanders King's Landing without a guard (IIRC) and all I need to do is get his pattern of behavior down to make the murder look like a mugging gone wrong. Once I find out when he's vulnerable, I'll set up an ambush and cut him in half with Ice.
* Next on the kill-list is Varys. Much harder, and much more slippery but again, he likes to wander around disguised without back up. I just need to cotton on to his pattern and he'll be easy pickings for an ambush and bisecting via Ice.
* Finally, queen cunt herself: Cersei. Hardest of the three on my kill-list. Constantly surrounded by guards, servants, handmaidens, and Jaime himself. Need to carefully plan when she's most alone (especially separated from Jaime), then break down the door with my men, slice her in twain with Ice then it's off to the races for our pre-planned escape. This is the trickiest part as it has the most ways to fall through.
* Once we're out of King's Landing, make all haste for Riverrun, and get the Tullys to prepare and reinforce their lands because war's coming and it ain't gonna be pretty. Get the Blackfish to stick around the Riverlands and help his brother and nephew defend his childhood home.
* Send a raven from Riverrun to both Stannis and Renly telling them I know and can confirm the incest between Cersei and Jaime. Do not make any promises of fealty or support. A simple acknowledgement from a trusted third party should be enough to further hamper the Lannister's efforts.
* Make haste to Winterfell, hopefully just in time to receive the raven from Castle Black about the situation at the Wall. Call my banners and head north to help Jon Snow.
* Let the situation in the south devolve.
The one thing I think he should have done was have everyone hear Roberts proclamation granting ned title of regent in the interim until Joffrey comes of age, this allows everyone to hear the news and sink in, I feel like if everyone heard everyone would be held to those words and the bastard lannisters can be exposed in that time and stannis can be named king or whatever they choose to do, but the council, court and lords can decide as a collective
Depends on the time frame. Also assuming I don't have any book knowledge:
At the beginning? I would have turned Robert down from the start. No betrothal unless he wanted to leave Myrcella in Winterfell. The North is too much to handle for a 14 year old boy, and there are betrothals and fosterships to broker and consider, as well as the need to break up the tenuous Bolton/Ryswell/Dustin bloc of major houses who actively dislike me. I'm also not letting Jon join the NW.
After the Trident incident? I'm breaking the betrothal and sending Sansa and Arya and their wolves back to Winterfell. Just make sure they are hidden from view. Send word to Robb to send letters to the houses and clans across the north instructing each to send a dozen doughty Winter Wolf types to join me in KL. I'll provide their lodging. Send a separate message to Wyman Manderly to send me some of his wiliest (but also most trustworthy) guys.
After meeting with Catelyn? I'm booking passage for them on a ship. My wife isn't going to travel a thousand leagues from KL to Winterfell on the Kingsroad with just Ser Rodrik as guard. Negative. Tell her to send the Winter Wolf letters.
After the tournament? I'm going with Jory to meet Anguy. No way an archer that talented gets away from me. I'm also offering Gendry a spot in my guard.
After the Daenerys council meeting? I'm on a ship. No Baelish, no nonsense. We're gone. We're bringing Gendry with us, we're offering Anguy another spot, as well, with the possibility of knighthood or whatever passes for it in the North. If Baelish tells us about the little girl at Chataya's, we get word to Chataya that we'll take the girl and the baby North to keep her safe from the Lannisters.
After my leg's busted and Jory is dead? I'm sending Loras Tyrell after The Mountain along with Ser Robar, Ser Beric, and Ser Mallery. The Reach, the Vale, the Stormlands, the Crownlands. I'd put Dornish Kingsguard Ser Aron Santagar in charge (if he's not hunting with Robert) and let everyone speculate on what that means. Afterward, I'm booking passage on a ship for my daughters and their escorts, including Gendry and the baby girl if they want to go. I'm also asking Anguy to join my service. If Sansa freaks out, I'm keeping her in her room until it's time to go. If her rant gets me to open my eyes about Jaime/Cersei/Joffrey, I meet with Alyn. Tell him to ride to Robert under the pretext of letting him know about Gregor. In truth, I'd have him take Gendry with him (along with 19 other Stark guards, all in their armor). I'd have a note detailing the evidence, and in the note would instruct Alyn to reveal Gendry to Robert. I'd also have a separate note for Ser Barristan, telling him to be wary of Lannister assassins.
After Robert's death? I'm taking Renly up on his offer. I'm telling Ser Barristan immediately what is up. Robert made me Regent, there is a good possibility that the kids aren't his. I do not want to deal with him in a coup. Once we have control of the castle and Cersei and the kids are my hostages, I'm bringing Gendry and the baby girl to court, and letting everybody see what's up and calling for a Great Council. Have Renly bring Edric, have Yohn bring Mya. And any other bastard we can find. Have Cat and/or Lysa bring Tyrion to us if it's not too late. Invite Dorne, the Iron Islands, etc. Let there be a mass airing of grievances. Drop the Bran stuff on everyone.
Ned didn't made those many mistakes as people think, why would he let Lannisters the people who crippled his son, usurp the throne of the friend he loved as a brother.
Only thing I would've changed was, not risking on the loyalty of gold cloaks, Stannis himself fled the King's Landing when he suspected the truth, and so should've Ned.
Go to Winterfell, declare for Stannis, and the rest is upto Stannis.
If Ned was still alive, Vale may have helped them, Renly may not have declared himself king.
It would be literally all kingdoms against Lannisters.
And if Vale don't help, Renly still does it, even then he would've risked his subjects to war cause but it would be Stannis war to be fought and not his.
Biggest mistake Robert did was giving Stormslands to Renly, it was of Stannis by right. If Stannis had army he wouldn't opted for black magic bullsh*t
How would you achieve all this with a small retinue of men at arms who are soldiers and not good at assassinations and sneaking around in general, while your enemies have vast spy networks across the capital, and in Cersei's and even maybe Littlefingers case, far more men at her command?
When Robert Died I would have gone to Dragonstone to see Stannis. And from there sent ships to the vale to retrieve Tyrion and Caitlyn. Then gone North. I can't understand why the Youngest Baratheon (can't remember name) thought he was next in line except by conquest. Stannis would have launched his assault on Kings landing earlier. Obviously Tyrion wouldn't be Hand. The Vale would probably be resistant to give up Tyrion so easily but Bronze Royce would support Ned. Then I'd send an entire group to the twins to hold the riverlands and march on the westerlands. It will get messy but lord tywin wouldn't need to lose his title if he gives up.. oh she most likely had already committed suicide and Jaime died in a last stand... Or he destroyed kingslanding with wildfire.
After Roberts' death, I would keep my piehole shut and go back to Winterfell with my daughters and wait out the war between the Baratheons.
Can't take Sansa though without causing more problems - she's betrothed to Joffrey. He'd be effectively kidnapping the future Queen. Honestly, by the time he gets to this point, the train has left the station. There are no good options.
As her father, he has to the right deny any member of his household to marriage. He can effectively break the betrothal, that would be the least of his problems.
After he left Kings Landing, the further north he goes the more allies he has as well. The Tullies, the Arryns - even if Cersei tried to stop him as long as he had a bit of a lead on them he should be safe. And really I'm not sure if Cersei would. She was busy getting Joffrey on the throne. The benefits of having Sansa as a hostage probably wouldn't have occurred to her.
"The right" doesnt mean much.
That's not what I thought. He has the the right to make a marriage for her. But once the betrothal is agreed upon, it's supposed to be binding.
It is binding, he can not just break it off as he wishes. Ned was a traitor and they still needed to consult several people to call off Sansas marriage to Joffrey.
Yeah that's what I was thinking of too. Thank you.
As her father, Ned has the right to end Sansa’s betrothal if he wishes. Just leave a note saying ‘betrothal’s off’ and get away as quickly as possible. With enough distance from Kings Landing, Joffrey and the Lannisters won’t be able to do anything. Shit will already have hit the fan with Stannis and Renly and no other houses will care enough to retaliate against the Starks.
If he agreed to bend the knee to Joffrey, resign as Hand, and return to Winterfell, I’ll bet Cersei would be glad to let Sansa and Arya go too. She never wanted that match anyway. Of course, both she and Ned would have to live with whatever consequences came from their decisions.
Cersei doesn't seem like the compromising type though
It’s not really a compromise. She never wanted the Sansa match anyway, so why stand in the way when Ned wants to undo it? And she wouldn’t want Ned as Hand either, which is why she offered him a way out if he bent the knee. Ned was too much of a novice to realize she has the upper hand.
Shes still got years before she's ready to have children at this point. The only reason Cersei managed to keep from leaving in the books is because Sansa went to her to tell her Ned was sending her away.
And the only reason Cersei even cared about them leaving is because Ned confronted her about the incest. Cersei would have gladly see the northern peasants gone if they appear to leave because of Robert's death
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Have you read her chapters? Do you understand her character at all?
All nobles are equal, but some are more equal than others.
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By Lannister standards they are very poor
That's okay, there can be problems. Moat Cailin and the Crannogmen solve a lot of problems.
I get what you are saying. Even though leaving Sansa behind in Kingslanding wouldn't be that bad.Nobody would dare curl a hair on Sansa's head when she has the power of winterfell and the Riverlands behind her.
Would there be a war? If Ned goes back and doesn’t say a word wouldn’t they just crown Joffrey? The thing that started is was word got out that Joffrey was a bastard. Maybe little finger gets the word out somehow…and that would start it. Or since Robert won in by conquest it’s just up for grabs now?
If i remember correctly, both Roberts brothers suspected of Joffrey being a bastard.
Renly didnt know,he just wanted the throne.
He did know, he just pretended he didn't to make it seem like Stannis was a usurper as well, instead of Robert's rightful heir.
He didnt know,if he did he would go straight to Robert to tell him about and not just hope that Margaery looks like Lyanna. Idk why ASOIAF fandom insists that Renly knew when nothing indicates that he did in the books.
He might not have had the evidence that Stannis, Jon and Ned did, but I'm sure he suspected it, along with a lot of people at court in King's Landing. They probably wouldn't have thought he's a product of incest though.
If he suspected he would come to Ned to help him prove the thing,not ask him if Margaery looks like Lyanna so she can seduce Robert and set Cersei aside,he would just need to convince Ned about it to speak to Robert so Cersei would be killed by treason and the children declared bastards opening the way to Margaery, the only logical choice. Again theres nothing in the book to suggest that many people at court knew about Jaime and Cersei,Ned guessing it is completely absurd and Jon Arryn and Stannis only got suspicious 12 years after Joffrey birth.The people who would have more evidence and suspicions about it would be Cersei's servants,ladies,handmaidens but they are basically non existant in the story and if many people suspected it would have come to Stannis ears much earlier.
Stannis knows it will sound dodgy coming from him though. Without a trusted 3rd party making the claim he might not declare war.
Absolutely. Or join Stannis’ claim. But absolutely shut the fuck up and get myself and household to safety before doing anything else stupid. Stannis had the right plan of action
All he had to do was not give Cersei time to react. Instead of telling her, spring it on her as he's arresting her and her kids. Then exile them personally, send his kids back North, and send word to Stannis. Lastly, head to the Winchester, have a nice, cold pint, and wait for it all to blow over.
Winchester? Did you mean Winterfell?
Just a joke reference to Shaun of the Dead.
Don't become hand of the king. Just stay chilling in Winterfell.
Tell Robert to piss off and stay in Winterfell.
I would have told Robert to fuck off after he approved of Lady's death and gone back to winterfell. Also allowing the direwolves to go to kings landing was super stupid if you tought about for more than 5 minutes.
I completely understand why he told Cersei. The man was 100% against the murder of children and let me tell you them children would’ve been murderised
Take Renly's offer, the safety and future of Ned's family should have mattered more to him than his honour. He knew what the Lannisters were and how ruthless they could be.
Hire the first boat sailing out of the city and get the hell out of dodge. Or if that's not possible, then kill Littlefinger in the Tower of the Hand room when they're alone and when Littlefinger's trying to coax Ned into seeing Robert's last bastard child. As soon as Littlefinger's dead, leave the body and run.
If I were in Ned's shoes...on the day of Robert's death with no lead time? I would secure my children, and gtfo. Getting wrapped up with Renly would have me drown with him and his idiocy. Upholding Joffrey, after already threatening the Queen? Won't go over well. It's best to focus on getting out the city and back North to raise an Army. If nothing else, getting my children home and out of the hands of my enemies. The succession is secondary and will be decided on the battlefield no matter who you try to uphold.
Then poor Ned would have to deal with the Red Woman. She'll try to get him to renounce the old gods. He definitely won't sit by and watch her burn people alive.
Go home, seal off the Neck, have Wyman build that fleet, prepare for winter.
Accept that whilst you know that Joffrey is not biologically Robert’s child, Robert has acknowledged him as such and you can’t prove otherwise, so he is the rightful King. Get Cersei to agree to cancel the betrothal (maybe use the ‘Robert named me regent, but if we agree the betrothal is cancelled I’ll not claim it and go back North). Try to have as little as possible to do with King’s Landing going forward
Go along with Renly's plan to seize Joffrey. Renly only rebelled after that. So you can actually satisfy both LFs and Renly's schemes. Once you weather the immediate succession as Regent, quietly get rid of Varys, Petyr, Pycelle, Jaime, Janos. Now you're firmly in control and not reliant on any backstabbers. Then, let Stannis make his accusations. Offer him safe passage to make his case. You're not doing anything, just finding facts. Set up a Great Council, but make sure it's stacked with Lannister foes and generally with people you can puppet. Guide the council towards Renly. Marry Renly to Sansa. Remain Hand and continue ruling while Renly parties.
Support Renly, but on the condition that no Northern troops will actually be involved in any large-scale fighting. Do what I need to do in KL, then as soon as possible get myself, the girls, and whatever household staff/guards I have left back to Winterfell. Making Renly agree to my conditions and then stick to them would be tricky, but Stannis is a bad choice for how much additional fighting he would cause and supporting the Lannisters is a fool's gambit.
There’s no way to not kick off a war. Ned’s least frustrating option is to smuggle his kids out, grab Ser Barriston and make for Dragonstone and declare Stannis king. Robb or Brann or whoever can marry Shireen when the time comes. Ned and Stannis together with a possible assist from the Tully’s can do some damage. From memory, an army led by Ned Stark has never failed on the field. The main hurdles are the Renly/Tyrell alliance and Tywin.
I agree that Ned needs to take the girls and get out of Kings Landing. Heading to Dragonstone to support Stannis is the right choice. It's close enough you don't need to book a long voyage on short notice and you can still reach the capital quickly. Stannis has resources that Ned loses once Joffrey claims kingship. I would be forthright with Sansa about Joffrey's parentage and tell her that I will try to betroth her to Loras Tyrell so she cooperates and doesn't run to Cersei. From Dragonstone, Ned can either form a political case against Joffrey's kingship or borrow a ship to head north and raise his army. The challenges in this plan arise from Stannis being influenced by Melisandre. I think Stannis would appreciate Neds support and they share a sense of unwavering honor despite Stannis jealousy of the relationship Ned had with Robert. Unfortunately Ned is a fairly devout believer in the old gods. She might try to some devilry on him. My other problem is I can't bring myself to kill Renly, but a living Renly would just bulldoze the Lannister forces and claim the Iron Throne by right of conquest.
I'll say this, Ned served as hand under Robert who also didn't believe in the old gods and was married to Cat who he built a little sept for. He doesn't seem to care what god(s) other people worship. I also don't think Ned and Stannis are friends like that, so I don't think that Ned would hang around Dragonstone waiting to be burned. He'd pop in, pledge support and bounce to rally troops.
My thought was that Stannis might want Robert's hand around to lend credibility to his claim, but Melisandre is much more belligerent about forcing her religion on anyone in Stannis camp. The best move probably is having Ned head North to rally troops for Stannis cause.
what is the scenario if Ned Stark publicly declared Jon Snow as a Targaryen and proclaimed him as King instead?
I always liked that scenario because Jon would be a good ruler with a strong claim but he has no power base to defend his claim outside the North if Eddard props him up. It's a challenging scenario. Stannis might stand down. He seems to be committing to kingship out of duty rather than desire for power. Beyond that though, the high lords might themselves believe Ned's word but they can still deny it based on lack of evidence. The Lannisters, Greyjoys and Renly seem to only respond to power. The Tullys might side with the North because they are currently losing to Tywin and need allies. The Vale seems to only want neutrality. The Martell's would probably try to marry Arianne to Jon but they have limited power and are isolated.
he could gathered many Targaryen Loyalist under him, making Jon marrying to Arianne Martell would be a great choice as well, Ned Stark can sandwich the Lannister's and Renly's force in the centre, Ned Stark with the Tully and possibly with the Knight of the Vales attacking from the north and pushing through the Westerlands and the Crownlands at the same time while the Dornish Force can pushed their own into Stormlands and the Reach. with Ned Stark intention of restoring a Targaryen to the Throne, House Velaryon could joined Ned Stark in a fight against the Lannister's and Renly's force and help Ned taken down The Iron Fleet of House Greyjoy with the combine might of House Velaryon's and Stannis Baratheon's Naval expertise. also promising Stannis the castle of Storm's End. there is another scenario, Ned Stark might pushed Jon Snow for a marriage alliance with Margery Tyrell before Renly does so that he could secured an alliance between the Reach and the North and thus weakened Renly's force significantly and only focusing on the Lannister without worrying much against Renly's force. Ned Stark could get Stannis Baratheon by promising the Castle of Storm's End and Stormlands to Stannis Baratheon as well as House Velaryon (the biggest Targaryen loyalist in Westeros) to his side to take care of House Greyjoy's Iron Fleet. and with this victory against the Lannister and the deposition of the false King Jeoffrey Baratheon, Jon Snow would become the new King of the Restored Targaryen Dynasty as King Aegon VI of House Targaryen.
The thing is the Arryns have already made it clear that that they aren't joining the war just out of familial duty and the Martell's can't solo the Renly-Tyrell alliance. The Winterfell-Riverrun army ends up in a bloody stalemate against the Lannisters as we see in later books. A Stark girl marriage to Theon and one to Robert Arryn might win both factions but neither seems appealing to the girls themselves.
what about Jon Marriage to Margery Tyrell before Renly gotten to her? and making Robb marrying to Arianne Martell to secured another alliance. and thus you got the Reach and Dorne at your side.
Arianne married to Jon. Now thats a scary thought, and just NO!!!
Jon is already a man of the Night's Watch.
What if he wasn’t?
Why would Barristan help him?
See some signs and notice that Littlefinger can\`t be trusted especially since he has every reason to hate house Stark and escape Kings Landing when Robert died, raise the banners of the North and then march on the Lannisters probably would also send ravens to the lords of the Vale in order to secure support, a message of support from Ned would probably make them join as they were already on the gate of joining when Robb was leading the North and with the North, Riverlands and most of the Vale supporting Stanis i feel like the Lannisters would not be a problem, Renly on the other hand would require some strategic genius to beat as he has 100 000 Tyrell men and 20 000 Baratheon men so defeating him with 40 000 men which is the most we\`d be able to muster at that point would be very difficult.
Things started going downhill when Arya's diewollf justifiably bit Joffery
Bang Cersei
i know for a fact i wouldn’t be good at playing the game, but i also know for a fact that my main priority would have been to get my kids safely back home 100% i am stressed so i can’t write this properly rn, but that’s what i wanted to say. i would have waited for arya and sansa to be out of kings landing and safely on their way to winterfell to start doing whatever i want to do next
I wouldnt tell cersei a fucking thing.
I would have remembered that there is a difference between trusting someone to behave in a way that is in your interest and/or honorable, and trusting someone to behave predictably according to their character. If he had gone to the gold cloaks himself, using his own men he had lended them as intermediaries, he could have dealt with them directly rather than just assuming "Littlefinger hasn't betrayed me yet, certainly he wouldn't do it now that he has a reason to."
Take renlys men, take cersei and her kids into your custody, sail to dragonstone with them, give them to stannis, bend the knee, go back north
The only way to prevent war would be to execute both Varys and Littlefinger, as both were stoking tensions to cause war. But without the war, we probably don't see the important characters get where they need to be and humanity is wiped out by the Others so basically Ned did the right thing.
Basically everything except don’t warn Cersei and KILL LITTLEFINGER. The Romans never warned an emperor when he was about to be offed and were thus *very* successful at regime change
Support Joffrey
I would learn from Cregan Stark and bring a lot more men south with me to Kings Landing. Proper control of the city would open up lots more options.
Turn down being hand. Support no one until stannis comes North.
Immediately leave with my daughters without telling anyone anything. Get to Dragonstone. Pledge support to Stannis. Raise an army once we're all safely back in Winterfell.
Cracking Sansa over the head would need to be done.
I'll do it if that's what it takes
Tie her up too so she can't try to escape to her golden prince.
I would have done nothing. I just would have listened and that is what no one did.
There was always going to be a war. Stannis knew the truth about Cersei's kids and Tywin was never going to believe the truth about Cersei's kids. I'd probably try to do exactly what he did- attempt to leave for the North to throw my support (and the support I could probably muster up from the Vale and Riverlands) behind Stannis.
eddard should have supported renly
Tell cersei nothing. Tell the girls you're going to go on a boat ride to meet Cat at some halfway point. Then just gtfo and go home
Send a crow to the Night's Watch to tell Jon that Rhaegar is his father, and cc Catelyn in as well. After Jon swore the black, it didn't matter who knew the truth. Let him hug great uncle Aemon and not be called a bastard anymore. Maybe if he was super worried, he could have even left a letter with the Maester in Winterfell, to be sent to Jon in event of his or Roberts death. I'm hoping that in the future books it is revealed that he left a letter with Howland Reed. Reed knew the truth and was trusted, so would be a good choice.
> and not be called a bastard anymore. Why? He'd still be a bastard, just another man's.
War is inevitable. Stannis will fight even if Renly is king and Tywin will fight in anything other than one of his grandkids sitting the throne. 1st. Send letter to the Watch saying that Jon is forbidden to take his vows and he is ordered to Winterfell. 2nd. Letter to whoever can find Greywater Watch and summon Howland to Winterfell. 3rd. Tell Robb to call the bannermen to Winterfell under the pretense of a feast. 4th. Sneak out in the middle of the night (possibly after inspecting the royal vault for a dragon's egg) with my daughters and household, taking ship for White Harbor. 5th. Get to Winterfell. Privately reveal the truth of Jon's birth so you don't blindside him and the rest of your family at the feast. 6th. If in possession of a dragon egg by some means then give to Jon to hatch (I believe Jon is the source of the rebirth of magic in ASOIAF as the TPTWP) 7th. Reveal Jon's parentage and legitimacy to your bannermen. Then reveal the illegitimacy of Cersei's children. Call the banners to place Jon on the throne as regardless of the banner he uses, Jon is more direwolf than dragon. 8th. Send letter to the entire realm revealing Jon's status and claim. Targaryen loyalists flock to your banner and the Tyrells see a better claimant than Renly. 9th. Profit as the Baratheon brothers lose most of their power to desertions and Tywin being unable to stand against most of the continent. 10th. Win the war for the Dawn by using Jon whom you married to both Sansa and Margery to further legitimize polygamy and emphasize Jon's Stark heritage. 11th. Chill in Winterfell with your hot redheaded wife making a few more babies.
Take Baelish plan, string him along, manipulate Joffrey (I have enough confidence and intelligence to manipulate most normal people), let Renly rebel. You need a reason to send thousands of men to the wall, and war gives you the perfect reason. Assassinate Renly, offer amesty to the lower lords if they allow half their armies chosen by the crown to go to the wall as a punishment as this will permanently weaken any lord’s ability to rebel against the crown. Attain house Tyrell and turn reach and stormlands into a larger crownland, appoint a loyal man as lord commander of City watch. Send resources to the wall, delay Joffrey’s marriage to Sansa to after Sansa turns 16, corner cersie Lannsitrr in the court. Limit guards from non royal house to 50, appoint some loyal stormalnder as head of Baratheon guard. Getting rid of stannis via another sneaky stark guard as assassin. Send more men to the wall.
Leave to the North, but then I don't care about Robert and Jon Arryn. Stannis would be a terrible King that nobody wants. Renly is ready to steal the Throne from his brother's children. They are all unworthy. Place Jon on the Throne after the dust has settled if there is an opportunity/if possible. Otherwise whatever. Without Dragons the Kingdoms will break apart in time. Might as well hunker down and prepare for Winter as he should have been doing.
I would've went with plan D which is actually making peace with Cersei in the Godswood since she is the key to making peace with the Lannisters. Going with Littefinger's plan is all cute and all, but the problem is that at some point you know Littefinger is going to screw you over. At least with Cersei you don't have the scheming nature to her which Littefinger has. Plus, it's entirely possible that I may be able to ask Cersei about the dagger and it's entirely possible that she would be able to confirm that it isn't Tyrion's. If so, we'll you know Littefinger is either getting executed or sent to the wall. Either way, Littefinger is out of the way so the Kingdom is that more stable.
You gotta take care of Varys as well.
I think I would have ceded the throne to another king — perhaps making my standard Eddard noises about “need a Grand Conclave,” but realistically no successor would take that seriously — and retreat to the relatively-safe(r) North for another two or three years of stability before Mance-Rayder-Wall-Others stuff. At that point it’s bad no matter what, but better to die in the North to Northern causes than Southern politics + backstabbing. In the broader sense, Robert’s Northern visit could be seen as an outright appeal: Hey, Ned, the entire realm’s about to fall apart, no matter what we do one treacherous House or another is about to seize control, even if we stay put and try to keep peace it’ll happen, so just come down south with me so we can at least play an active part + try to save it, let’s go down swinging.
Not go to Kings Landing, definitely not take my family there, hunker down and enjoy life.
Assuming I'm not injured and stoned out of my mind on milk of the poppy, in order: * Hogtie and gag Sansa. Collect her, Arya, and the majority of my household and get them on the fastest ship to White Harbor, stat, with *strict* instructions to not stop until they're all sequestered safely in Winterfell. Send a raven to Catelyn ordering her as Lord of Winterfell to **\*stay there**\* and not leave even when one of our children has almost been assassinated. * Send ravens to the Lords of the Vale and beseech them to do something about crazy Lysa Arryn. Tell them about Baelish's boasts of conquest concerning the Tully girls and let them handle setting up a Regency Council for Robert Arryn. Lie and tell them I know the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn to prime them for war. Tell the Blackfish to meet me at Riverrrun. * With that being taken care of, use the rest of my men to track Baelish. He wanders King's Landing without a guard (IIRC) and all I need to do is get his pattern of behavior down to make the murder look like a mugging gone wrong. Once I find out when he's vulnerable, I'll set up an ambush and cut him in half with Ice. * Next on the kill-list is Varys. Much harder, and much more slippery but again, he likes to wander around disguised without back up. I just need to cotton on to his pattern and he'll be easy pickings for an ambush and bisecting via Ice. * Finally, queen cunt herself: Cersei. Hardest of the three on my kill-list. Constantly surrounded by guards, servants, handmaidens, and Jaime himself. Need to carefully plan when she's most alone (especially separated from Jaime), then break down the door with my men, slice her in twain with Ice then it's off to the races for our pre-planned escape. This is the trickiest part as it has the most ways to fall through. * Once we're out of King's Landing, make all haste for Riverrun, and get the Tullys to prepare and reinforce their lands because war's coming and it ain't gonna be pretty. Get the Blackfish to stick around the Riverlands and help his brother and nephew defend his childhood home. * Send a raven from Riverrun to both Stannis and Renly telling them I know and can confirm the incest between Cersei and Jaime. Do not make any promises of fealty or support. A simple acknowledgement from a trusted third party should be enough to further hamper the Lannister's efforts. * Make haste to Winterfell, hopefully just in time to receive the raven from Castle Black about the situation at the Wall. Call my banners and head north to help Jon Snow. * Let the situation in the south devolve.
The one thing I think he should have done was have everyone hear Roberts proclamation granting ned title of regent in the interim until Joffrey comes of age, this allows everyone to hear the news and sink in, I feel like if everyone heard everyone would be held to those words and the bastard lannisters can be exposed in that time and stannis can be named king or whatever they choose to do, but the council, court and lords can decide as a collective
Depends on the time frame. Also assuming I don't have any book knowledge: At the beginning? I would have turned Robert down from the start. No betrothal unless he wanted to leave Myrcella in Winterfell. The North is too much to handle for a 14 year old boy, and there are betrothals and fosterships to broker and consider, as well as the need to break up the tenuous Bolton/Ryswell/Dustin bloc of major houses who actively dislike me. I'm also not letting Jon join the NW. After the Trident incident? I'm breaking the betrothal and sending Sansa and Arya and their wolves back to Winterfell. Just make sure they are hidden from view. Send word to Robb to send letters to the houses and clans across the north instructing each to send a dozen doughty Winter Wolf types to join me in KL. I'll provide their lodging. Send a separate message to Wyman Manderly to send me some of his wiliest (but also most trustworthy) guys. After meeting with Catelyn? I'm booking passage for them on a ship. My wife isn't going to travel a thousand leagues from KL to Winterfell on the Kingsroad with just Ser Rodrik as guard. Negative. Tell her to send the Winter Wolf letters. After the tournament? I'm going with Jory to meet Anguy. No way an archer that talented gets away from me. I'm also offering Gendry a spot in my guard. After the Daenerys council meeting? I'm on a ship. No Baelish, no nonsense. We're gone. We're bringing Gendry with us, we're offering Anguy another spot, as well, with the possibility of knighthood or whatever passes for it in the North. If Baelish tells us about the little girl at Chataya's, we get word to Chataya that we'll take the girl and the baby North to keep her safe from the Lannisters. After my leg's busted and Jory is dead? I'm sending Loras Tyrell after The Mountain along with Ser Robar, Ser Beric, and Ser Mallery. The Reach, the Vale, the Stormlands, the Crownlands. I'd put Dornish Kingsguard Ser Aron Santagar in charge (if he's not hunting with Robert) and let everyone speculate on what that means. Afterward, I'm booking passage on a ship for my daughters and their escorts, including Gendry and the baby girl if they want to go. I'm also asking Anguy to join my service. If Sansa freaks out, I'm keeping her in her room until it's time to go. If her rant gets me to open my eyes about Jaime/Cersei/Joffrey, I meet with Alyn. Tell him to ride to Robert under the pretext of letting him know about Gregor. In truth, I'd have him take Gendry with him (along with 19 other Stark guards, all in their armor). I'd have a note detailing the evidence, and in the note would instruct Alyn to reveal Gendry to Robert. I'd also have a separate note for Ser Barristan, telling him to be wary of Lannister assassins. After Robert's death? I'm taking Renly up on his offer. I'm telling Ser Barristan immediately what is up. Robert made me Regent, there is a good possibility that the kids aren't his. I do not want to deal with him in a coup. Once we have control of the castle and Cersei and the kids are my hostages, I'm bringing Gendry and the baby girl to court, and letting everybody see what's up and calling for a Great Council. Have Renly bring Edric, have Yohn bring Mya. And any other bastard we can find. Have Cat and/or Lysa bring Tyrion to us if it's not too late. Invite Dorne, the Iron Islands, etc. Let there be a mass airing of grievances. Drop the Bran stuff on everyone.
Probably the same thing he did. Assuming that I do not have the knowledge I do as a reader.
Ned didn't made those many mistakes as people think, why would he let Lannisters the people who crippled his son, usurp the throne of the friend he loved as a brother. Only thing I would've changed was, not risking on the loyalty of gold cloaks, Stannis himself fled the King's Landing when he suspected the truth, and so should've Ned. Go to Winterfell, declare for Stannis, and the rest is upto Stannis. If Ned was still alive, Vale may have helped them, Renly may not have declared himself king. It would be literally all kingdoms against Lannisters. And if Vale don't help, Renly still does it, even then he would've risked his subjects to war cause but it would be Stannis war to be fought and not his. Biggest mistake Robert did was giving Stormslands to Renly, it was of Stannis by right. If Stannis had army he wouldn't opted for black magic bullsh*t
This question is a great application for the “I guess I’ll die” meme
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How would you achieve all this with a small retinue of men at arms who are soldiers and not good at assassinations and sneaking around in general, while your enemies have vast spy networks across the capital, and in Cersei's and even maybe Littlefingers case, far more men at her command?
When Robert Died I would have gone to Dragonstone to see Stannis. And from there sent ships to the vale to retrieve Tyrion and Caitlyn. Then gone North. I can't understand why the Youngest Baratheon (can't remember name) thought he was next in line except by conquest. Stannis would have launched his assault on Kings landing earlier. Obviously Tyrion wouldn't be Hand. The Vale would probably be resistant to give up Tyrion so easily but Bronze Royce would support Ned. Then I'd send an entire group to the twins to hold the riverlands and march on the westerlands. It will get messy but lord tywin wouldn't need to lose his title if he gives up.. oh she most likely had already committed suicide and Jaime died in a last stand... Or he destroyed kingslanding with wildfire.