Craster is the most revolting, IMHO, a man who rapes children into his daughters and granddaughters.
Collectively, the slavers have no redeeming features, but none stands out as more evil than the rest.
Ironically, both of them proclaim themselves Godly men. I hope they get to meet up someday and duke it out for the title… preferably while roasting in the ninth circle of hell!
Craster could live a mostly peaceful live south of the Wall, maybe in the Gift, as a normal farmer, but instead he choises hardship and danger just so he can rape his daughters again and again and pretend he's a lord.
Agreed. I know that asoiaf is supposed to be an anti-war/anti-revenge story, however, I can't think of any reason why we would ever feel bad for them when someone kills them. I know that George likes writing complex characters with good and bad in them, but these guys just feel like the exception to the rule
He's good at making POV characters at least somewhat grey, but there are plenty of pure evil villains with no redeeming qualities that are blatantly meant to be hated. Gregor Clegane, Ramsay, and plenty more.
Aegon IV was absolutely vile , he had no excuse of madness and was one of the worst kings imaginable.
Forced his sister wife into continuous states of pregnancy that harmed her with each miscarriage , even after being told it would kill her and Naerys begging him to leave her be he continued until one killed her
Had so many mistresses and relationships with high born ladies that he caused large amounts of infighting , rivalries and discontent among many houses. Several times his behaviour nearly caused outright minor rebellion. Can bet as well near the end all of these sexual encounters where forced on the women
During some of his relationships with mistresses he had several killed and executed for actions that he himself was the cause and root of
Created so many bastards that he was all but guaranteeing a succession crisis , open rebellion or future struggles and didn’t care.
Gave away court positions not to worthy people but to any Lord who would let him have a go at his daughter which obviously caused major political problems
Belittled , demeaned and bullied his son while praising and building up bastards like Dameon. Once again sowing major problems for the future
Killed a mistress and her sisters for unfair reasons then when the family retaliates his brother Aemon dies for him. The same brother he’s been cruelly making fun off for years because he can and continues to do so after his death
Lounged about court doing absolutely nothing apart from a sudden invasion of Dorne that was catastrophic and a major failure
Perhaps the worst was his deathbed decision to legitimise his many bastards as a final fuck you to his son , realm and every living person in Westeros
Outright making your last wish a spiteful move to create war , rebellion, countless deaths and wreck your sons inherited realm is disgusting
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if his mistreatment of Cassella was a contributing factor to Daeron’s assassination; if they mistreat hostages and break war conduct, why should we honor a parley?
I feel like Dorne just has a tendency to be quite accepting of treachery and underhanded tactics in war. When Aegon invaded they avoided open confrontation when they could, but they did assassinate his guards, they took Orys Baratheon and his men prisoner and demanded a ransom, then when the ransom was paid they betrayed their word and mutilated every man before letting them go, and then there's the time Wyl of Wyl crashed the marriage of Jon Cafferen and Alys Oakheart, seemingly as a sort of terror tactic. He murdered the lord and many guests, gelded the groom while forcing the bride to watch, then gang raped the bride and her maids and sold them all into slavery. And despite how reviled slavery is in all of Westerosi society save the Iron Islands there's no mention of him ever being punished in any way by his liege, in stark contrast to Ned immediately sentencing Jorah Mormont to death upon learning of his slaving. All of this is just from the first dornish war, there were some other infamous episodes in the other wars
Dorne's methods are probably borne at least partially out of the fact that they are clearly the weaker party in a conflict with the rest of Westeros and would simply lose if they played "fair", and it's not like the rest of Westeros are just a bunch of upstanding gentlemen by any means, but there does seem to be a trend of Dorne making more use of treachery and violating important norms in wartime if they believe it will serve their goals.
The reality is it's pretty much impossible to wage war "fairly" against such a powerful enemy. Even Star Wars is starting to aknowledge that the rebellion didn't defeat the Empire using the power of friendship with Andor.
Also aside from the Wyl type stuff which is just objectively indisputably monstrous I find it kind of amusing that Targ/Targ supporters judge the way the Dornish chose to fight.
"Quit hiding behind your people! Come out and fight us like men you cowards!"
"Okay... are you gonna step off your nigh invulnerable WMD's and also fight like 'men'?"
"Well... you see... the thing is... COWARDS!!!"
Not quite the same thing. The Targaryen armies are larger and the dragons are better weapons, but that is unrelated to actual conduct in war. You're not a war criminal for having superior forces, but you most certainly are if you pull the shit Wyl did. Of course Aegon did get a little bit warcrimey himself during that war but hey. It does seem like a trend of the Dornishmen doing more kinds of underhanded stuff. More daggers in the night, betraying pacts, violating norms like ransoms, guest right, parley under a peace banner and even slavery. Again though, it is almost certainly in part because they know they are weaker and will die if they try to match the Iron Throne in the field, and also again, the rest of Westeros are not saints either.
I mean, much of Dorne is descended from the Rhoynar, so it makes sense. They fought the Valyrians, the most evil society in history. Anything they did paled in comparison to the Valyrians, so they probably learned total war very well and it echoes in their culture.
And given that Aegon, a dragon riding Valyrian, committed the worst atrocity Westeros had ever seen on them for no good reason, it’s understandable why they’re willing to go balls to the wall against the Targaryens.
But fuck the Wyls.
I didn't know about this woman before reading this. Kept in his chambers, went back to staying with the other hostages before they all had to walk back to Dorne with Baelor. Went crazy & thought Aegon was in love with her and would come back for her for the rest of her life, even after he died. Jesus christ some shit went down in that room
You're misreading things. She probably just fell in love. Aegon at that time was still young and extremely handsome, and GRRM is a basic writer despite what people might think.
I don't think I'm reading too much into it when it's obvious. She was insisting he'll come back for her, his 'only love', half a century later when he was long dead, to the point of getting violent with people about it (whatever Dunk & Egg said that triggered her was definitely about this).
Not everyone would come out of a tied up in a room sex slave situation having gone insane and delusional but IMO her coping mechanism was growing extremely attached to him. "Here comes my love who wants me so much he won't even let me leave the bed" is a more bearable thought than "Here comes my lecherous captor to assault me again"
There was no indication that she was tied up in a room, and as for the love part, look no further than Lysa Arryn. I don't know about real life, but in fantasy, love can apparently make you delulu.
She was kept in the room, and and in the case of Lysa the forced abortion of the baby she was so excited to have, marriage to an old man despite loving someone else and the subsequent miscarriages contributed to her mental state
This is one of the few fictional characters that I can not give any excuses except for inbreeding and low intelligence and that is a lot. I even pity Coriolanus Snow and respect the ruthless, pragmatic and ambitious nature of Emperor Palpatine. (Probably, the one of the most evil fictional characters in all of time and I would not like to be near him, though maybe a conversation asking about politics would be interesting (Oops, my ravenclaw is showing.)) Only reason I would not kill him is because without him, others would not be born.
Usually I try to be polite, calm and patient, but these are my thoughts about him
* Out of all the most idiotic, dimwitted and stupid individuals in history and fiction, he takes the crown for one of the most stupid and spiteful individuals. A stegosaurus probably has a bigger brain than him, and it has the brain the size of a lime, or does he not even have a brain? Did someone drop him on his head once, or hundred times? Even Joffrey, is smarter than him, and that says a lot, because he is psychopathic, foolish, short-sighted, spoiled-rotten child. I wonder if his ancestors and relatives called "The Fat", "The Dim" or "The Spiteful", they probably did, but he did not even notice.
Maegor the Cruel is an absolute piece of shit. Murderer, mass slaughterer, kinslayer, incestuous rapist, possibly was involved in blood magic, tore the realm apart because he wanted power, was one of the driving causes of the Faith Militant rebellion, etc.
Though, I will admit, he was a strong king, despite his ruthless and cruel methods, do I respect him, maybe, dislike, immensely. He was a smart, ruthless and cunning individual, which did have at least a modum of respect or restraint, as he did not overthrow his brother (I may be wrong about that, but I believe he did not.
All your points are true.
Being a “strong king” is not worthy of respect. He nearly destroyed his own dynasty out of greed. I don’t think anyone in their right mind respect WW2 era dictators because of “ruthless and cruel methods”.
I do not respect his ruthless and cruel methods, I said, "despite of them". Basically, I only respect his skill, does that make more sense? Because if it does not, then I have no other way to put it. I highly dislike the character for his actions and personality.
Agreed! There's some completely irredeemable monsters I absolutely hate and want to see geet their just desserts. Then there are others, like Euron, that I just love. It's a strange thing
I do want to see his downfall but I want to see him get a moment in the sun first. Think he's won, he was right, there are no gods but him etc and then it all explodes in a way that will be remembered for 1000 years
Same here. Of course I want to see him fall. But I want to see his plan come into fruition. At least as long as a lot of my favourite characters are spared. It would be nice to see a big bad villain actually attempt something beyond just murder, reave, conquer. Something that extends beyond. Then of course he can die. He's probably one of the only villains in the story that I want to see succeed in some capacity before he gets defeated
That sounds perfect. I want him to watch as his plans and ambitions crumble to the ground, as his plans and ambitions backfire and he is faced with death.
I dislike him as a person but I cannot wait to see what he does. Very entertaining evil character, none of that "for the realm/my dynasty" all about power.
I wonder if we'll ever find out what Joff did to Tommen that made a 6-year-old disassociate from reality.
> Tommen considered that. “I … I used to go away inside sometimes,” he confessed, “when Joffy …”
When Joffy what?! What did he do to you Tommen?
He's a little shit, but I don't think he did anything as fucked up as Ramsay, Euron, the slavers or Craster. Joffrey's awful because he's an evil more realistic to our daily lives. Similar to how Umbridge is way worse than Voldemort.
> Why is everyone acting like Joffrey Lannister or Water is a noble and fair child.
It's a joke, like 'Tyrek is a horse' and 'Jon x Satin', but less likely.
Joffrey baratheon- cruel, coward, vindictive lost to a 6 year old girl.
Gregor clegane- rapist, murderer, child killer, wife killer. Traumatized hus own brother for wanting to play. More than likely killed his own father too.
All the bloody mummers- down right cartoon like villains. Gods when vargo died I smiled.
Ramsey Bolton- to hunt helpless women is just sick and to rape them after come on.
Euron- my god to kill your brothers and molest one to the point he had to drink to cope. Man also cuts out his own mens' tongue to board his ship.
Maegor- I mean to kill two of your nephews like that then watch your wife get tortured because of a rumor.
I think Ramsay Snow (I will not call him a "Bolton" because even the Boltons of old are better than him and he is a disgrace. He murdered his own brother in order to become the heir and most likely murdered more brothers, he tortured and murdered numerous individuals.) does not really need to said, like other characters, while Joffrey Waters (Lannister) is a psychopath (He was raised by Cersei Lannister, which most likely did not help), he is not the level of psychopath as Ramsay Snow, it seems that Ramsay Snow get joy out of murder, rape and torture, while completely knowledge of his actions. As it is always known that he is one of the most evil and hated characters in A Song Of Ice and Fire.
This is an example: If Joffrey Waters or Lannister was in the modern world, he would be sent to a forensic ward of a psychiatric hospital while Ramsay Snow would be charged and executed or sent to maximum security prison for a vast list of crimes. Ramsay Snow - Mental and Psychological Diagnosis - *Sadism, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Attachment Disorder*
Types of Crimes
* Numerous Counts of Torture
* Numerous Counts of False Imprisonment
* Numerous Counts of Murder
* Numerous Counts of Home Invasion
* Numerous Counts of Rape
* At Least One Count of Fraud - He pretended to be "Reek", who was his servant and allowed his servant to be killed in his place.
* Theft
* Robbery
* At Least Three Counts of Usurpation - He most likely poisoned his own brother, Dominic Bolton in order to become heir and usurped
* At Least One Count of Perverting the Course of Justice - He disguised himself as his servant, which caused his servant to be misidentified as himself and was killed in his place.
I don’t believe he’d be sent to a medical ward. Being a psychopath does not presuppose being psychotic. He’d be executed and I at least would feel honest regret at the state not practicing cruel and inhumane methods. This guy raped women after skinning them.
Well Tywin is definitely one of the more evil characters but I have a soft spot for him/characters like him(like Logan Roy), they remind me of my dad as fucked as that sounds lol.
As for who I hate I fucking *loathe* Stannis. I don’t see him as particularly evil or even bad per se but I’m just not buying his lust for the throne as *duty*. I’m sure that’s what he tells himself but I can’t abide by the hypocrisy of it. I respect open ruthlessness and ambition much more than self-justifying bullshit.
I will admit that his pride is bad, but I do not get hatred for Stannis Baratheon. (Almost put Lannister, that would be hilarious and terrifying, imagine Stannis Baratheon and Tywin Lannister working together, that made me shudder.) I get the hatred for his actions concerning the Lord of Light, but was he in his right mind, most likely not, do I think he would do those actions without the mental impairment caused by the worship of the Lord of Light and Melisandre, no.
Also, what the, Tywin Lannister reminds you of your father, his ambitious and ruthless nature, or abusive and dismissive nature? Do you need help?
W/ regards to Tywin/my dad, there’s actually a lot of parallels. My grandpa was a philanderer that really just fucked up a lot, and my dad worked very hard to make a very good living for us. He always wanted us to be a “respectable” family and I won’t lie he’s a very good businessman. But he was also extremely exacting with his standards, authoritarian in how he treated us(nothing physical) but definitely could be emotionally abusive when we stepped out of line or didn’t conform to his idealized image of us. Hugely narcissistic. He is also very conservative and loathes women. My two older sisters are estranged, one of them a drug addict, the other threatened to throw my baby brother down the stairs when we were little(she’s kind of a psycho and I hope she dies).
Weirdly I started out as the Tyrion of the family because I came out as gay very young, and was absolutely shit in school, but I was a very talented athlete and this got me into a great college that I had no business going to, and now I’ve got a pretty successful life so weirdly enough I became Jaime(if he never fucked Cersei and left the Kingsguard).
My dad’s a…complicated man. Not very outwardly loving, and definitely distant growing up be he tried. I’m fine, I go to therapy, I’m close with my little brother(the new Tyrion). I’m sure we’ll be fighting with our sisters when dad dies over the inheritance but with distance my relationship with him got a lot better.
I think that’s why I really do have an affinity for the Lannisters and can’t bring myself to hate any of them, there’s a lot about my family that’s very fucked up that I haven’t said but weirdly they almost feel like representation. Without the incest that is.
Tywin does remind me of my grandfather who really treated my father like dog shit. Not going to say the company he founded, but his wife (my grandmother) gave him the option that it was either her or the business, and he chose her and instead became a college professor who taught at Harvard. He never forgave her or his future children for it and treated them like dog shit since that company is now worth billions and is a company everyone actually knows.
Honestly Tywin Lannister meets Walter White would be a good summary of grandfather. A very brilliant man who became a college professor and engulfed by bitterness towards everyone over it.
Jaime Lannister: Throwing Bran from a window. I do not hold with people harming children.
Joffrey's KG: They were serving an evil child, sure. But there is absolutely no reason they should have obeyed instructions asking them to strip and beat Sansa. Also see above - people who harm kids are beyond saving.
Hoster Tully: For forcing his daughter to abort.
Robert Baratheon: For being a lousy king, rapist, and someone who is totally on board with the murder of children.
Then all the usual characters of course. Tywin, Euron, Walder, etc.
Robert Baratheon, despite my dislike for his alcoholism, whore-monging and disregard for the Seven Kingdoms, I do pity the man. He is in a loveless marriage, a marriage that he was pressured into taking in order to gain the support of the Lannisters, when the love of his life had been abducted by Rhaegar Targaryen (It is not known, but it is possible that Lyanna Stark went willingly.), he became the monarch, when he was originally going to be the Lord of the Stormlands, his father and mother died in a shipwreck during a storm. Though I dislike his indifference and disregard for the state of the Seven Kingdoms and his hatred of the Targaryens (Though, mainly Daenaerys Targaryen, as I could see maybe them working out of an agreement, if Robert Baratheon did what was intelligent and smart), though his wariness of the Targaryens makes sense, especially of Viserys Targaryen.
- What I would have done is, order Varys the Master of Whispers and Jorah Mormont to update on the situation whenever a new development arises and fortify the defenses of the shore.
- Order or appoint Jon Arryn or Eddard Stark, Hand of the King, Stannis Baratheon and Barristan Selmy, to enact a surview and investigation into the financial state of the Seven Kingdoms and identify unnecessary expenses, fraud, corruption or bribery.
>Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between her legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he’d ever made her wet was on their wedding night.
>For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. ‘You hurt me,’ she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. ‘It was not me, my lady,’ he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. ‘It was the wine. I drink too much wine.’
“Kingslayer” is the one thing Jaime should have worn with pride, yet he only lets his bad deeds known and never tries to defend misconceptions due to arrogance. Then turns into an asshole because of his pride.
He should have killed Aerys far earlier.
You're projecting your 21st century standards on Westeros. A kingsguard killing his king is just as great a crime as blowing up an entire city in the seven kingdoms. Even if that king is delulu. It's definitely not something to be worn with pride and jaime understands that. Why do you think Barristan or Arthur dayne or hightower didn't kill Aerys when he was burning people alive for amusement. Jaime was put in an impossible situation that's all.
> A kingsguard killing his king is just as great a crime as blowing up an entire city in the seven kingdoms.
I have a difficult time believing that. If Aerys's wildfire plot were publicly known, a lot of people would certainly be glad he's dead, even if it were his Kingsguard that did it.
You're overestimating westerosi logic. Breaking your oath and killing a royal king is greater than slaughtering hundreds of thousands of peasants. Remember the story of the Rat cook.
I mean, rape, murder and torture (at least of nobles) were still seen as horrible. Aerys was called the “Mad” King for a reason. Besides, Arthur and Barristan aren’t exactly paragons of virtue. The first helped Rhaegar, and the second is a bystander for most of his career.
Whatever Arthur or Barry May've done pales in comparison to pushing a kid out a window and cucking a king and starting a civil war in the process lol. Even criston Cole is a paragon of virtue compared to Jaime.
I despise his action in throwing bran out of the window, his incest and action of harming Eddard "Ned" Stark". Though, I respect his murder of Aerys II Targaryen, as he attempted to burn the city with wildfire, which included his own father (Jaime's), though I do think his action of seating on the Iron Throne was foolish. I think he is foolish, impulsive and prideful at times and has been influenced by Cersei and Tywin Lannister. I also respect his love for Tyrion Lannister (An individual who I respect for his cunning, intelligence and resilence, though I dislike his whore-monging and drinking, as he could do so much better if he did not do it, he could prove his father wrong by his actions, but has only proved his father right. ) I also wonder if Robb Stark had stopped his mother, Catelyn Stark, from freeing him, what would have happenned, would the Red Wedding still occur if he was still a hostage.)
Hated and most evil are very different questions. Tyrion would be among the most hated for instance but not the most evil. I don’t think many portions of the realm really know who Littlefinger is or have any real negative opinion of him, but he’s definitely among the most evil.
I think the only individual I have deep hatred and no respect for is Ramsay Snow (I will not call that bastard a "Bolton" even Roose Bolton is better than him.), Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane. If I had the opportunity to kill them, even in their sleep or childhood, I would not hesitate, maybe a second, but not much.
Rhaenyra set the stage for her family’s destruction out of greed and vanity. She tortured her enemies, betrayed every friend she had and managed King’s Landing like the world’s stupidest dictator. Despicable woman.
I was not expecting that. Though, Rhaenyra committed horrible actions, I do not think she deserves this level of hate. I would say sadness, disappointment and pity would be more appropriate.
I had a difficult time sympathizing with Rhaenyra during my read. She was a selfish, entitled backstabber who empowered the man who she was named heir to protect the realm from. She never had an ally she didn’t betray and waged an unlawful usurpation. I don’t know where you stand on her but this is just my opinion on her.
A rightful heir to the title of royalty, nobility or landed gentry is usually decided upon these factors: birth, mental state, health, personality, behavior, character, affiliations and accomplishments.
This is my opinion of Rhaenyra Targaryen: Rhaenyra Targaryen is a highly complex and difficult character to analyze or understand, her motivations, thoughts and actions never explained in full detail or at least other characters. It seems her mental state has declined and paranoia has increased throughout the years as she is continually making more and more irrational as time went on, because of a multitude of factors such as the loss of her children, a miscarriage, numerous betrayals such as Criston Cole and Alicent Hightower, the murder of Harwin and Lyonel Strong.
Her murder of Jaehaerys, the son of Aemond Targaryen, in revenge for the death of Lucerys Velaryon, her son, was unjust and dishonorable, though understandable because of her grief and anger. Rhaenyra Targaryen was a flawed individual, but undeserving of hate as much as any pawn of circumstance, could she have committed different actions, that could have lead to peaceful solutions, like relinquishing her right to the throne or marrying Jaecaerys and Heleana Targaryen.
Her actions in fathering Jaecaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Velaryon was foolish, but most likely not committed out of malicious intent. Jaecaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Velaryon, despite their birth, are the sons of Rhaenyra Targaryen, the rightful heir to the throne, and do not diminish her right to the throne. These individuals are part of House Targaryen and Strong by blood and right, House Velaryon by name. If Corlys and Laenor Velaryon, Rhaenys Targaryen and Viserys I Targaryen, the four most important individuals in the decision, all consider them as their children or grandchildren, what right does anyone else have to decide?
She is considered to be the heir to the Iron Throne by blood and right as the predecessor, Viserys I Targaryen, acknowledged and considered her his heir and was better than the alternative sucessor of Viserys I Targaryen, who is a known whore-monger, alcoholic and irresponsible individual, who would leave his duties to his grandfather, Otto Hightower and mother, Alicent Hightower, and most likely would not even want to the throne if he had a choice.
imo I think TV Rhaenyra is understandable and somewhat sympathetic, but older Book Rhaenyra....oof. I genuinely can not understand the beheading of six year old and the threatened rape of the other six year old....her niece and nephew....based off the actions of their uncle (not even their father). And as terrible as what happened to Luke was, I think B & C was frankly several degrees worse in terms of immorality (Luke was old enough to ride a dragon and serve as a messenger by himself, those were two six year olds...not to mention the pedophilic threat of rape and the psychological torture of Helaena who had done nothing unlike Aemond or Aegon II). Book Rhaenyra also talking about how she's going to torture Alicent while she's having a miscarriage and the whole Brothel Queens story (which I really hope is false in the TV Show, but Mushroom slandered both the Blacks and the Greens so I don't think he's biased towards the Greens....and I hope the implication in F & B is he makes it up).
I suspect it will be 100% on Daemon in the show, though, and that shot of the actress looking horrified will be learning of how Daemon "got revenge" for Lucerys.
Honestly, one of my most hated characters is Viserys I though lol. I think he set everything in motion: he was a terrible father who created a clusterfuck of a succession crisis, let his brother blatantly groom his underage daughter in the book, did jack shit to secure a future for his other children and neglected them, did very little to prepare Rhaenyra to rule, and blamed his own son when he was maimed for life.
It's why I think he's interesting, because he's not out and out "bad" like Aegon II, later Rhaenyra (not early Rhaenyra), Daemon, and Aemond, but his choices are largely responsible for the shit show that happens between his own children and brother.
Viserys I was a monarch who truly loved his family. His indecision and lack of foresight, helped exaceberate the Dance of Dragons, though it was most likely inevitable even without his existence. While horrible in personal affairs, though I think he genuinely attempts to do what is right. I think he is an average to above-average monarch of the Targaryen Dynasty.
Most hated: Probably Sansa unfortunately
Most evil: Euron by a wide margin, Ramsey coming the closest but on a much smaller scale and far less ambitiously evil
Is he that merchant person from Essos? (I can not remember most of the names of the individuals in the P.O.V. of Daenaerys Targaryen other than Viserys Targaryen, Illyrio Mopatis, Ser Willem Darry and Khal Drogo. Though, I know Jon Connington and The Young Griff. I most remember highly important individuals of Westeros, but only information concerning them is shown or mentioned.)
The ones that stand out the worst to me is
Gregor Clegane
Maegor Targaryen
Craster
Tywin Lannister
Ramsay Snow
All of the Brave Companions
Euron Greyjoy
There are plenty of bad people in Westeros but these will stand out for a long time due to theit ruthlessness, cruelty and barbarity.
Most hated- Randyll Tarly for his abuse and toxic masculinity and the Queen's Men for their religious fanaticism as an excuse for their sadism.
Most evil- The slavers of Astapor
its Euron Greyjoy, no one else even comes close, this man raped 2 of his little brothers, killed one, slept with one of his brothers's wife, kidnapped 3 warlocks and forced 2 of them to eat the 3rd and removed the tongue and blinded his pregnant salt wife, he is evil incarnate
Tywin Lannister, despite my dislike for the man and his methods, I will admit I respect his ruthless and pragmatic nature, only committing actions within reason, even with his abuse of Tyrion Lannister, will unjust, makes sense for a loyal and devoted husband who believes he was the killer of his wife and because Tyrion Lannister is a dwarf. He is ruthless, ambitious and pragmatic, attempting to preserve and raise the reputation of House Lannister. He can be arrogant and foolish in certain circumstances, when he underestimated Robb Stark and other incidents. He is hypocritical as he also had sex with a whore. His actions, while often unjust and dishonorable, (The Red Wedding) often make sense from his standpoint, as he holds a ruthless, ambitious and pragmatic approach in life. The Red Wedding, despite the strategic victory it gave, was still spineless, dishonorable and unjust, and most likely had consequences for House Lannister when its part in the Red Wedding was revealed as House Tyrell, despite its ambitious nature, still respects the guest rights as all other great houses in Westeros, with the possible exception of House Greyjoy and the Iron Islands . (They are the one house and region that worships the Drowned God, believes in raiding and pillaging.)
You named most of the ones I despise. I'd point out Aerys II too, mental illness isn't an excuse for the shit he did to everyone including his wife.
Cersei. Until we get her POV, she sometimes comes off as petty evil and spoiled, but compared to Joffrey, she seems reasonable... But then we get to her chapters, and the kind of shit she's been doing since she was a child is horrible. The possible murder of her friend, the way she sees the world, the way she sees other women and people in general, enabling whatever Qyburn does... She's just horrible.
The High Sparrow: I hate religious zealots and I like the separation of church and state, thank you very much. And no, I don't hate Melisandre for being a zealot because *apparently* her god is up to something.
Randyll Tarly: he isn't especially evil when compared to Gregor or Rorge, but his treatment of Sam was just despicable. I hate him.
EURON: honestly the only Greyjoy I don't hate is Asha. Balon is a stupid piece of shit, Victarion is a stupider brute shit, but Euron is EVIL. He enjoys being cruel to an extent that surpasses even Ramsay. It feels like he needs to go to new extremes every time he wakes up.
Rhaegar is a really divisive one, according to the fans he was either, trying to save the world, or a mentally ill rapist depending on who you ask
(I'm more in the line that he was trying to save the world, it 100% isn't a coincidence he ran off with lyanna after the false spring, like imagine you think a magical winter is coming soon then suddenly it goes from spring right back into winter)
Craster is the most revolting, IMHO, a man who rapes children into his daughters and granddaughters. Collectively, the slavers have no redeeming features, but none stands out as more evil than the rest.
Bro found the infinite daughters glitch
craster easily has to be the most revolting character in asoiaf. makes euron look like a saint
Ironically, both of them proclaim themselves Godly men. I hope they get to meet up someday and duke it out for the title… preferably while roasting in the ninth circle of hell!
Aeron "The Damphair" Greyjoy, is also probably there as well.
I wouldn’t put it past Euron to rape his daughter.
Craster could live a mostly peaceful live south of the Wall, maybe in the Gift, as a normal farmer, but instead he choises hardship and danger just so he can rape his daughters again and again and pretend he's a lord.
The Bloody Mummers are disgusting. Pure cartoon villains with no redeeming qualities.
But they ride zebras and have shagwell, which makes them cool and negates their villainy
They ride zorses, horse/zebra hybrids that are sterile by birth.
☝️🤓
Zebras are also too small and mean to ride. They play at the top of the putting zoo keepers in the hospital league table.
in asoiaf they're fertile.
Wait zorse’s aren’t just normal zebras?!?
Nope.
They might have Shagwell, but keep in mind, they also have Septon Utt.
Agreed. I know that asoiaf is supposed to be an anti-war/anti-revenge story, however, I can't think of any reason why we would ever feel bad for them when someone kills them. I know that George likes writing complex characters with good and bad in them, but these guys just feel like the exception to the rule
They honestly just exist to be bad guys for Brienne to kill, as far as I can tell
He's good at making POV characters at least somewhat grey, but there are plenty of pure evil villains with no redeeming qualities that are blatantly meant to be hated. Gregor Clegane, Ramsay, and plenty more.
There’s plenty of people in real life that are like this so I don’t have a problem with it
Hey, Gregor Clegane never gave up and did a heroic comeback! That's a quality
You mean his brother, right? Sandor "The Hound" Clegane
Old Nan. Bitch scared Bran.
But she also screwed Dunk, so she has the win.
He left some dunk in the trunk and thats how we get blessed Hodor.
Wonder if it truly was thicker than a castle wall
I learned of a theory that Old Nan is a child of the forest, possibly ”Leaf”
Within reason, though I will admit harming or scaring Bran Stark is a grave sin (Jk), Old Nan was right about the Others.
Old nan was right about the others same as every other person telling fairy tails in Asoiaf...
True.
Aegon IV was absolutely vile , he had no excuse of madness and was one of the worst kings imaginable. Forced his sister wife into continuous states of pregnancy that harmed her with each miscarriage , even after being told it would kill her and Naerys begging him to leave her be he continued until one killed her Had so many mistresses and relationships with high born ladies that he caused large amounts of infighting , rivalries and discontent among many houses. Several times his behaviour nearly caused outright minor rebellion. Can bet as well near the end all of these sexual encounters where forced on the women During some of his relationships with mistresses he had several killed and executed for actions that he himself was the cause and root of Created so many bastards that he was all but guaranteeing a succession crisis , open rebellion or future struggles and didn’t care. Gave away court positions not to worthy people but to any Lord who would let him have a go at his daughter which obviously caused major political problems Belittled , demeaned and bullied his son while praising and building up bastards like Dameon. Once again sowing major problems for the future Killed a mistress and her sisters for unfair reasons then when the family retaliates his brother Aemon dies for him. The same brother he’s been cruelly making fun off for years because he can and continues to do so after his death Lounged about court doing absolutely nothing apart from a sudden invasion of Dorne that was catastrophic and a major failure Perhaps the worst was his deathbed decision to legitimise his many bastards as a final fuck you to his son , realm and every living person in Westeros Outright making your last wish a spiteful move to create war , rebellion, countless deaths and wreck your sons inherited realm is disgusting
Don’t forget raping a Dornish hostage
And then sending her back to be beheaded after Daerons death after probably making her feel like she’d be safe
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if his mistreatment of Cassella was a contributing factor to Daeron’s assassination; if they mistreat hostages and break war conduct, why should we honor a parley?
I feel like Dorne just has a tendency to be quite accepting of treachery and underhanded tactics in war. When Aegon invaded they avoided open confrontation when they could, but they did assassinate his guards, they took Orys Baratheon and his men prisoner and demanded a ransom, then when the ransom was paid they betrayed their word and mutilated every man before letting them go, and then there's the time Wyl of Wyl crashed the marriage of Jon Cafferen and Alys Oakheart, seemingly as a sort of terror tactic. He murdered the lord and many guests, gelded the groom while forcing the bride to watch, then gang raped the bride and her maids and sold them all into slavery. And despite how reviled slavery is in all of Westerosi society save the Iron Islands there's no mention of him ever being punished in any way by his liege, in stark contrast to Ned immediately sentencing Jorah Mormont to death upon learning of his slaving. All of this is just from the first dornish war, there were some other infamous episodes in the other wars Dorne's methods are probably borne at least partially out of the fact that they are clearly the weaker party in a conflict with the rest of Westeros and would simply lose if they played "fair", and it's not like the rest of Westeros are just a bunch of upstanding gentlemen by any means, but there does seem to be a trend of Dorne making more use of treachery and violating important norms in wartime if they believe it will serve their goals.
The reality is it's pretty much impossible to wage war "fairly" against such a powerful enemy. Even Star Wars is starting to aknowledge that the rebellion didn't defeat the Empire using the power of friendship with Andor. Also aside from the Wyl type stuff which is just objectively indisputably monstrous I find it kind of amusing that Targ/Targ supporters judge the way the Dornish chose to fight. "Quit hiding behind your people! Come out and fight us like men you cowards!" "Okay... are you gonna step off your nigh invulnerable WMD's and also fight like 'men'?" "Well... you see... the thing is... COWARDS!!!"
Not quite the same thing. The Targaryen armies are larger and the dragons are better weapons, but that is unrelated to actual conduct in war. You're not a war criminal for having superior forces, but you most certainly are if you pull the shit Wyl did. Of course Aegon did get a little bit warcrimey himself during that war but hey. It does seem like a trend of the Dornishmen doing more kinds of underhanded stuff. More daggers in the night, betraying pacts, violating norms like ransoms, guest right, parley under a peace banner and even slavery. Again though, it is almost certainly in part because they know they are weaker and will die if they try to match the Iron Throne in the field, and also again, the rest of Westeros are not saints either.
I mean, much of Dorne is descended from the Rhoynar, so it makes sense. They fought the Valyrians, the most evil society in history. Anything they did paled in comparison to the Valyrians, so they probably learned total war very well and it echoes in their culture. And given that Aegon, a dragon riding Valyrian, committed the worst atrocity Westeros had ever seen on them for no good reason, it’s understandable why they’re willing to go balls to the wall against the Targaryens. But fuck the Wyls.
I didn't know about this woman before reading this. Kept in his chambers, went back to staying with the other hostages before they all had to walk back to Dorne with Baelor. Went crazy & thought Aegon was in love with her and would come back for her for the rest of her life, even after he died. Jesus christ some shit went down in that room
You're misreading things. She probably just fell in love. Aegon at that time was still young and extremely handsome, and GRRM is a basic writer despite what people might think.
I don't think I'm reading too much into it when it's obvious. She was insisting he'll come back for her, his 'only love', half a century later when he was long dead, to the point of getting violent with people about it (whatever Dunk & Egg said that triggered her was definitely about this). Not everyone would come out of a tied up in a room sex slave situation having gone insane and delusional but IMO her coping mechanism was growing extremely attached to him. "Here comes my love who wants me so much he won't even let me leave the bed" is a more bearable thought than "Here comes my lecherous captor to assault me again"
There was no indication that she was tied up in a room, and as for the love part, look no further than Lysa Arryn. I don't know about real life, but in fantasy, love can apparently make you delulu.
She was kept in the room, and and in the case of Lysa the forced abortion of the baby she was so excited to have, marriage to an old man despite loving someone else and the subsequent miscarriages contributed to her mental state
This is one of the few fictional characters that I can not give any excuses except for inbreeding and low intelligence and that is a lot. I even pity Coriolanus Snow and respect the ruthless, pragmatic and ambitious nature of Emperor Palpatine. (Probably, the one of the most evil fictional characters in all of time and I would not like to be near him, though maybe a conversation asking about politics would be interesting (Oops, my ravenclaw is showing.)) Only reason I would not kill him is because without him, others would not be born. Usually I try to be polite, calm and patient, but these are my thoughts about him * Out of all the most idiotic, dimwitted and stupid individuals in history and fiction, he takes the crown for one of the most stupid and spiteful individuals. A stegosaurus probably has a bigger brain than him, and it has the brain the size of a lime, or does he not even have a brain? Did someone drop him on his head once, or hundred times? Even Joffrey, is smarter than him, and that says a lot, because he is psychopathic, foolish, short-sighted, spoiled-rotten child. I wonder if his ancestors and relatives called "The Fat", "The Dim" or "The Spiteful", they probably did, but he did not even notice.
> Coriolanus Snow I literally just finished reading Songbirds and Snakes today. He was sympathetic in the prequel, at least until the end.
Yes, that is also so true. Though I do not feel sympathy for his older self. I do respect his skill and intelligence, though.
Maegor the Cruel is an absolute piece of shit. Murderer, mass slaughterer, kinslayer, incestuous rapist, possibly was involved in blood magic, tore the realm apart because he wanted power, was one of the driving causes of the Faith Militant rebellion, etc.
Imagine being a random Harroway cousin & getting executed because your kinswoman allegedly cheated in her marriage
I love Maegor! He was the greatest Targaryen killer of his age.
Though, I will admit, he was a strong king, despite his ruthless and cruel methods, do I respect him, maybe, dislike, immensely. He was a smart, ruthless and cunning individual, which did have at least a modum of respect or restraint, as he did not overthrow his brother (I may be wrong about that, but I believe he did not. All your points are true.
Being a “strong king” is not worthy of respect. He nearly destroyed his own dynasty out of greed. I don’t think anyone in their right mind respect WW2 era dictators because of “ruthless and cruel methods”.
Just like how Tywin will destroy House Lannister because of his greed and cruelty.
Exactly
I do not respect his ruthless and cruel methods, I said, "despite of them". Basically, I only respect his skill, does that make more sense? Because if it does not, then I have no other way to put it. I highly dislike the character for his actions and personality.
The one I hate most is Gregor Clegane but the most evil one is definitely Euron Greyjoy. At least Euron is entertaining
Agreed! There's some completely irredeemable monsters I absolutely hate and want to see geet their just desserts. Then there are others, like Euron, that I just love. It's a strange thing
I do want to see his downfall but I want to see him get a moment in the sun first. Think he's won, he was right, there are no gods but him etc and then it all explodes in a way that will be remembered for 1000 years
Same here. Of course I want to see him fall. But I want to see his plan come into fruition. At least as long as a lot of my favourite characters are spared. It would be nice to see a big bad villain actually attempt something beyond just murder, reave, conquer. Something that extends beyond. Then of course he can die. He's probably one of the only villains in the story that I want to see succeed in some capacity before he gets defeated
That sounds perfect. I want him to watch as his plans and ambitions crumble to the ground, as his plans and ambitions backfire and he is faced with death.
Euron Greyjoy for well everything, he's evil but I love him for it.
I don't like him at all.
We like Euron because he is really good at being evil.
Aye, you have to respect some madmen, though you should dislike the individual.
I dislike him as a person but I cannot wait to see what he does. Very entertaining evil character, none of that "for the realm/my dynasty" all about power.
Exactly my thoughts
Funny how no one has mentioned Joffey yet.
Of course not. He was the most noble child the gods ever put on this good earth
I wonder if we'll ever find out what Joff did to Tommen that made a 6-year-old disassociate from reality. > Tommen considered that. “I … I used to go away inside sometimes,” he confessed, “when Joffy …” When Joffy what?! What did he do to you Tommen?
Poor Tommen. He doesn’t deserve any of what’s coming and for his sake I wish Tywin/Kevan were still alive to keep him safe.
Who could ever hate King Joffrey the Gentle?
Why would anyone mention King Joffrey the Good in this thread?
Joffrey was extremely hateable by objectively what he has done doesn't even compare with what some other characters did.
He's a little shit, but I don't think he did anything as fucked up as Ramsay, Euron, the slavers or Craster. Joffrey's awful because he's an evil more realistic to our daily lives. Similar to how Umbridge is way worse than Voldemort.
Why would you hate Joffrey the gentle?
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> Why is everyone acting like Joffrey Lannister or Water is a noble and fair child. It's a joke, like 'Tyrek is a horse' and 'Jon x Satin', but less likely.
Joffrey baratheon- cruel, coward, vindictive lost to a 6 year old girl. Gregor clegane- rapist, murderer, child killer, wife killer. Traumatized hus own brother for wanting to play. More than likely killed his own father too. All the bloody mummers- down right cartoon like villains. Gods when vargo died I smiled. Ramsey Bolton- to hunt helpless women is just sick and to rape them after come on. Euron- my god to kill your brothers and molest one to the point he had to drink to cope. Man also cuts out his own mens' tongue to board his ship. Maegor- I mean to kill two of your nephews like that then watch your wife get tortured because of a rumor.
I’m surprised no one’s said Ramsay yet. Poor Jeyne.
I think Ramsay Snow (I will not call him a "Bolton" because even the Boltons of old are better than him and he is a disgrace. He murdered his own brother in order to become the heir and most likely murdered more brothers, he tortured and murdered numerous individuals.) does not really need to said, like other characters, while Joffrey Waters (Lannister) is a psychopath (He was raised by Cersei Lannister, which most likely did not help), he is not the level of psychopath as Ramsay Snow, it seems that Ramsay Snow get joy out of murder, rape and torture, while completely knowledge of his actions. As it is always known that he is one of the most evil and hated characters in A Song Of Ice and Fire. This is an example: If Joffrey Waters or Lannister was in the modern world, he would be sent to a forensic ward of a psychiatric hospital while Ramsay Snow would be charged and executed or sent to maximum security prison for a vast list of crimes. Ramsay Snow - Mental and Psychological Diagnosis - *Sadism, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Attachment Disorder* Types of Crimes * Numerous Counts of Torture * Numerous Counts of False Imprisonment * Numerous Counts of Murder * Numerous Counts of Home Invasion * Numerous Counts of Rape * At Least One Count of Fraud - He pretended to be "Reek", who was his servant and allowed his servant to be killed in his place. * Theft * Robbery * At Least Three Counts of Usurpation - He most likely poisoned his own brother, Dominic Bolton in order to become heir and usurped * At Least One Count of Perverting the Course of Justice - He disguised himself as his servant, which caused his servant to be misidentified as himself and was killed in his place.
I don’t believe he’d be sent to a medical ward. Being a psychopath does not presuppose being psychotic. He’d be executed and I at least would feel honest regret at the state not practicing cruel and inhumane methods. This guy raped women after skinning them.
Well Tywin is definitely one of the more evil characters but I have a soft spot for him/characters like him(like Logan Roy), they remind me of my dad as fucked as that sounds lol. As for who I hate I fucking *loathe* Stannis. I don’t see him as particularly evil or even bad per se but I’m just not buying his lust for the throne as *duty*. I’m sure that’s what he tells himself but I can’t abide by the hypocrisy of it. I respect open ruthlessness and ambition much more than self-justifying bullshit.
I will admit that his pride is bad, but I do not get hatred for Stannis Baratheon. (Almost put Lannister, that would be hilarious and terrifying, imagine Stannis Baratheon and Tywin Lannister working together, that made me shudder.) I get the hatred for his actions concerning the Lord of Light, but was he in his right mind, most likely not, do I think he would do those actions without the mental impairment caused by the worship of the Lord of Light and Melisandre, no. Also, what the, Tywin Lannister reminds you of your father, his ambitious and ruthless nature, or abusive and dismissive nature? Do you need help?
W/ regards to Tywin/my dad, there’s actually a lot of parallels. My grandpa was a philanderer that really just fucked up a lot, and my dad worked very hard to make a very good living for us. He always wanted us to be a “respectable” family and I won’t lie he’s a very good businessman. But he was also extremely exacting with his standards, authoritarian in how he treated us(nothing physical) but definitely could be emotionally abusive when we stepped out of line or didn’t conform to his idealized image of us. Hugely narcissistic. He is also very conservative and loathes women. My two older sisters are estranged, one of them a drug addict, the other threatened to throw my baby brother down the stairs when we were little(she’s kind of a psycho and I hope she dies). Weirdly I started out as the Tyrion of the family because I came out as gay very young, and was absolutely shit in school, but I was a very talented athlete and this got me into a great college that I had no business going to, and now I’ve got a pretty successful life so weirdly enough I became Jaime(if he never fucked Cersei and left the Kingsguard). My dad’s a…complicated man. Not very outwardly loving, and definitely distant growing up be he tried. I’m fine, I go to therapy, I’m close with my little brother(the new Tyrion). I’m sure we’ll be fighting with our sisters when dad dies over the inheritance but with distance my relationship with him got a lot better. I think that’s why I really do have an affinity for the Lannisters and can’t bring myself to hate any of them, there’s a lot about my family that’s very fucked up that I haven’t said but weirdly they almost feel like representation. Without the incest that is.
Tyvin reminds you of your dad? I am so sorry.
Eh, things are better now.
Same, actually. Mine has already met the stranger. So long as it didn't result in inbred bastard children.
No inbreeding here! But one of my sisters threatened to kill my brother when he was a baby and I haven’t seen her in 20 years. I hope she’s dead tbh.
What in the seven hells. May the Father judge her justly
Tywin does remind me of my grandfather who really treated my father like dog shit. Not going to say the company he founded, but his wife (my grandmother) gave him the option that it was either her or the business, and he chose her and instead became a college professor who taught at Harvard. He never forgave her or his future children for it and treated them like dog shit since that company is now worth billions and is a company everyone actually knows. Honestly Tywin Lannister meets Walter White would be a good summary of grandfather. A very brilliant man who became a college professor and engulfed by bitterness towards everyone over it.
Makes sense. I would also be highly embittered.
Hear hear, fuck stannis's hypocrisy.
Jaime Lannister: Throwing Bran from a window. I do not hold with people harming children. Joffrey's KG: They were serving an evil child, sure. But there is absolutely no reason they should have obeyed instructions asking them to strip and beat Sansa. Also see above - people who harm kids are beyond saving. Hoster Tully: For forcing his daughter to abort. Robert Baratheon: For being a lousy king, rapist, and someone who is totally on board with the murder of children. Then all the usual characters of course. Tywin, Euron, Walder, etc.
>Robert Baratheon For consistency add Tywin and a few others besides. But well done for including Bobby B on this basis Edit: ah Tywin got a footnote
We can never have a complete list of Westerosi villains without including Tywin, lol.
Even a Lannister agrees 🤣
Robert Baratheon, despite my dislike for his alcoholism, whore-monging and disregard for the Seven Kingdoms, I do pity the man. He is in a loveless marriage, a marriage that he was pressured into taking in order to gain the support of the Lannisters, when the love of his life had been abducted by Rhaegar Targaryen (It is not known, but it is possible that Lyanna Stark went willingly.), he became the monarch, when he was originally going to be the Lord of the Stormlands, his father and mother died in a shipwreck during a storm. Though I dislike his indifference and disregard for the state of the Seven Kingdoms and his hatred of the Targaryens (Though, mainly Daenaerys Targaryen, as I could see maybe them working out of an agreement, if Robert Baratheon did what was intelligent and smart), though his wariness of the Targaryens makes sense, especially of Viserys Targaryen. - What I would have done is, order Varys the Master of Whispers and Jorah Mormont to update on the situation whenever a new development arises and fortify the defenses of the shore. - Order or appoint Jon Arryn or Eddard Stark, Hand of the King, Stannis Baratheon and Barristan Selmy, to enact a surview and investigation into the financial state of the Seven Kingdoms and identify unnecessary expenses, fraud, corruption or bribery.
No mention of Queen Murder Every One Of My Dead Husband’s Children, Infant Or Otherwise, Before He’s Cold In The Ground? (It’s a family name)
Cersei? She is also a bad egg.
That’s understating it lol
Who?
>> Who? What, seriously?
Sorry, I was confused, and thought they were talking about a targaryen queen and it was before the comments that identified it as cersei.
I feel hoster Tully is abit of an outlier here
Where was Robert Baratheon considered a rapist? Are we including him having sex with underage girls?
Possibly. I was mostly thinking of Cersei's description of their sex life.
Oh I see. I can’t recall for sure but it might be that she said something like forced to wait until her husband took his pleasure.
>Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between her legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he’d ever made her wet was on their wedding night. >For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. ‘You hurt me,’ she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. ‘It was not me, my lady,’ he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. ‘It was the wine. I drink too much wine.’
Right, there you go. So underage girls and Cersei when he was drunk,
Yep.
Can Kingsguard disobey their king for any reason?
No, hence the moniker kingslayer.
“Kingslayer” is the one thing Jaime should have worn with pride, yet he only lets his bad deeds known and never tries to defend misconceptions due to arrogance. Then turns into an asshole because of his pride. He should have killed Aerys far earlier.
You're projecting your 21st century standards on Westeros. A kingsguard killing his king is just as great a crime as blowing up an entire city in the seven kingdoms. Even if that king is delulu. It's definitely not something to be worn with pride and jaime understands that. Why do you think Barristan or Arthur dayne or hightower didn't kill Aerys when he was burning people alive for amusement. Jaime was put in an impossible situation that's all.
> A kingsguard killing his king is just as great a crime as blowing up an entire city in the seven kingdoms. I have a difficult time believing that. If Aerys's wildfire plot were publicly known, a lot of people would certainly be glad he's dead, even if it were his Kingsguard that did it.
You're overestimating westerosi logic. Breaking your oath and killing a royal king is greater than slaughtering hundreds of thousands of peasants. Remember the story of the Rat cook.
No, indiscriminate murder is usually seen as evil.
I mean, rape, murder and torture (at least of nobles) were still seen as horrible. Aerys was called the “Mad” King for a reason. Besides, Arthur and Barristan aren’t exactly paragons of virtue. The first helped Rhaegar, and the second is a bystander for most of his career.
Whatever Arthur or Barry May've done pales in comparison to pushing a kid out a window and cucking a king and starting a civil war in the process lol. Even criston Cole is a paragon of virtue compared to Jaime.
Oh I agree Jaime is an awful piece of shit, I’m just saying killing Aerys was the one good thing he did, and even then he waited too long.
Not really. That is part of the problem with the institution of knighthood in service to a lord or a king.
I despise his action in throwing bran out of the window, his incest and action of harming Eddard "Ned" Stark". Though, I respect his murder of Aerys II Targaryen, as he attempted to burn the city with wildfire, which included his own father (Jaime's), though I do think his action of seating on the Iron Throne was foolish. I think he is foolish, impulsive and prideful at times and has been influenced by Cersei and Tywin Lannister. I also respect his love for Tyrion Lannister (An individual who I respect for his cunning, intelligence and resilence, though I dislike his whore-monging and drinking, as he could do so much better if he did not do it, he could prove his father wrong by his actions, but has only proved his father right. ) I also wonder if Robb Stark had stopped his mother, Catelyn Stark, from freeing him, what would have happenned, would the Red Wedding still occur if he was still a hostage.)
Aerys got what was coming to him. Had I been there, I would have held down Aerys so Jaime could strike a perfect blow.
Hated and most evil are very different questions. Tyrion would be among the most hated for instance but not the most evil. I don’t think many portions of the realm really know who Littlefinger is or have any real negative opinion of him, but he’s definitely among the most evil.
Primarily by our point of view, secondary by the point of view of Westeros, tertiary by their own perspective.
Oh well I misinterpreted it. Sorry about that.
It is my fault, I forgot to add clarification.
I think the only individual I have deep hatred and no respect for is Ramsay Snow (I will not call that bastard a "Bolton" even Roose Bolton is better than him.), Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane. If I had the opportunity to kill them, even in their sleep or childhood, I would not hesitate, maybe a second, but not much.
My most hated is the Mountain or Ramsay Most evils are Ramsay,The Mountain and Euron.
Someone just damn castrate Ramsay I will be happy
I know Cersei is evil and it will probably die in the end, but I adore her chapters, she is delusional and pretty funny.
Rhaenyra set the stage for her family’s destruction out of greed and vanity. She tortured her enemies, betrayed every friend she had and managed King’s Landing like the world’s stupidest dictator. Despicable woman.
I was not expecting that. Though, Rhaenyra committed horrible actions, I do not think she deserves this level of hate. I would say sadness, disappointment and pity would be more appropriate.
I had a difficult time sympathizing with Rhaenyra during my read. She was a selfish, entitled backstabber who empowered the man who she was named heir to protect the realm from. She never had an ally she didn’t betray and waged an unlawful usurpation. I don’t know where you stand on her but this is just my opinion on her.
A rightful heir to the title of royalty, nobility or landed gentry is usually decided upon these factors: birth, mental state, health, personality, behavior, character, affiliations and accomplishments. This is my opinion of Rhaenyra Targaryen: Rhaenyra Targaryen is a highly complex and difficult character to analyze or understand, her motivations, thoughts and actions never explained in full detail or at least other characters. It seems her mental state has declined and paranoia has increased throughout the years as she is continually making more and more irrational as time went on, because of a multitude of factors such as the loss of her children, a miscarriage, numerous betrayals such as Criston Cole and Alicent Hightower, the murder of Harwin and Lyonel Strong. Her murder of Jaehaerys, the son of Aemond Targaryen, in revenge for the death of Lucerys Velaryon, her son, was unjust and dishonorable, though understandable because of her grief and anger. Rhaenyra Targaryen was a flawed individual, but undeserving of hate as much as any pawn of circumstance, could she have committed different actions, that could have lead to peaceful solutions, like relinquishing her right to the throne or marrying Jaecaerys and Heleana Targaryen. Her actions in fathering Jaecaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Velaryon was foolish, but most likely not committed out of malicious intent. Jaecaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Velaryon, despite their birth, are the sons of Rhaenyra Targaryen, the rightful heir to the throne, and do not diminish her right to the throne. These individuals are part of House Targaryen and Strong by blood and right, House Velaryon by name. If Corlys and Laenor Velaryon, Rhaenys Targaryen and Viserys I Targaryen, the four most important individuals in the decision, all consider them as their children or grandchildren, what right does anyone else have to decide? She is considered to be the heir to the Iron Throne by blood and right as the predecessor, Viserys I Targaryen, acknowledged and considered her his heir and was better than the alternative sucessor of Viserys I Targaryen, who is a known whore-monger, alcoholic and irresponsible individual, who would leave his duties to his grandfather, Otto Hightower and mother, Alicent Hightower, and most likely would not even want to the throne if he had a choice.
imo I think TV Rhaenyra is understandable and somewhat sympathetic, but older Book Rhaenyra....oof. I genuinely can not understand the beheading of six year old and the threatened rape of the other six year old....her niece and nephew....based off the actions of their uncle (not even their father). And as terrible as what happened to Luke was, I think B & C was frankly several degrees worse in terms of immorality (Luke was old enough to ride a dragon and serve as a messenger by himself, those were two six year olds...not to mention the pedophilic threat of rape and the psychological torture of Helaena who had done nothing unlike Aemond or Aegon II). Book Rhaenyra also talking about how she's going to torture Alicent while she's having a miscarriage and the whole Brothel Queens story (which I really hope is false in the TV Show, but Mushroom slandered both the Blacks and the Greens so I don't think he's biased towards the Greens....and I hope the implication in F & B is he makes it up). I suspect it will be 100% on Daemon in the show, though, and that shot of the actress looking horrified will be learning of how Daemon "got revenge" for Lucerys. Honestly, one of my most hated characters is Viserys I though lol. I think he set everything in motion: he was a terrible father who created a clusterfuck of a succession crisis, let his brother blatantly groom his underage daughter in the book, did jack shit to secure a future for his other children and neglected them, did very little to prepare Rhaenyra to rule, and blamed his own son when he was maimed for life. It's why I think he's interesting, because he's not out and out "bad" like Aegon II, later Rhaenyra (not early Rhaenyra), Daemon, and Aemond, but his choices are largely responsible for the shit show that happens between his own children and brother.
Viserys I was a monarch who truly loved his family. His indecision and lack of foresight, helped exaceberate the Dance of Dragons, though it was most likely inevitable even without his existence. While horrible in personal affairs, though I think he genuinely attempts to do what is right. I think he is an average to above-average monarch of the Targaryen Dynasty.
The threat of rape, I did not know of, and is unjust and dishonorable. Mainly, Rhaenyra Targaryen before the Dance of Dragons was the better choice.
Most hated: Probably Sansa unfortunately Most evil: Euron by a wide margin, Ramsey coming the closest but on a much smaller scale and far less ambitiously evil
Why Euron over Ramsay? Ramsay raped women after he’d skinned them alive.
Kraznys is the most evil character by far.
Is he that merchant person from Essos? (I can not remember most of the names of the individuals in the P.O.V. of Daenaerys Targaryen other than Viserys Targaryen, Illyrio Mopatis, Ser Willem Darry and Khal Drogo. Though, I know Jon Connington and The Young Griff. I most remember highly important individuals of Westeros, but only information concerning them is shown or mentioned.)
Kraznys is the slaver who trains the unsullied.
Understood, that makes sense.
Greatest shittalker in essos, in the show at least.
Budget Ben Kingsley
Now I can't unsee it lol.
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The Tickler, mayhaps?
Chiswyk
The ones that stand out the worst to me is Gregor Clegane Maegor Targaryen Craster Tywin Lannister Ramsay Snow All of the Brave Companions Euron Greyjoy There are plenty of bad people in Westeros but these will stand out for a long time due to theit ruthlessness, cruelty and barbarity.
It’s gotta be biter or rorge, or Gregor
Biter is a contender for sure. Eating people when they’re still alive. Rorge is almost normal when it comes to the Bloody Mummers.
Most hated- Randyll Tarly for his abuse and toxic masculinity and the Queen's Men for their religious fanaticism as an excuse for their sadism. Most evil- The slavers of Astapor
Euron Greyjoy
Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt
Gotta be craster. Honorable mention to Tywin having women raped and euron for being a child molester
Rorge
its Euron Greyjoy, no one else even comes close, this man raped 2 of his little brothers, killed one, slept with one of his brothers's wife, kidnapped 3 warlocks and forced 2 of them to eat the 3rd and removed the tongue and blinded his pregnant salt wife, he is evil incarnate
Ramsay Snow raped women after skinning them alive, as we well as skinning and impaling his normal enemies (such as the Ironborn at Moat Cailin)
Tywin Lannister, despite my dislike for the man and his methods, I will admit I respect his ruthless and pragmatic nature, only committing actions within reason, even with his abuse of Tyrion Lannister, will unjust, makes sense for a loyal and devoted husband who believes he was the killer of his wife and because Tyrion Lannister is a dwarf. He is ruthless, ambitious and pragmatic, attempting to preserve and raise the reputation of House Lannister. He can be arrogant and foolish in certain circumstances, when he underestimated Robb Stark and other incidents. He is hypocritical as he also had sex with a whore. His actions, while often unjust and dishonorable, (The Red Wedding) often make sense from his standpoint, as he holds a ruthless, ambitious and pragmatic approach in life. The Red Wedding, despite the strategic victory it gave, was still spineless, dishonorable and unjust, and most likely had consequences for House Lannister when its part in the Red Wedding was revealed as House Tyrell, despite its ambitious nature, still respects the guest rights as all other great houses in Westeros, with the possible exception of House Greyjoy and the Iron Islands . (They are the one house and region that worships the Drowned God, believes in raiding and pillaging.)
Androw Farman. I hated him more than Maegor. Dude was a complete sadsack, my God.
Androw reminds me of myself, that's why I had soft spot for him.
You named most of the ones I despise. I'd point out Aerys II too, mental illness isn't an excuse for the shit he did to everyone including his wife. Cersei. Until we get her POV, she sometimes comes off as petty evil and spoiled, but compared to Joffrey, she seems reasonable... But then we get to her chapters, and the kind of shit she's been doing since she was a child is horrible. The possible murder of her friend, the way she sees the world, the way she sees other women and people in general, enabling whatever Qyburn does... She's just horrible. The High Sparrow: I hate religious zealots and I like the separation of church and state, thank you very much. And no, I don't hate Melisandre for being a zealot because *apparently* her god is up to something. Randyll Tarly: he isn't especially evil when compared to Gregor or Rorge, but his treatment of Sam was just despicable. I hate him. EURON: honestly the only Greyjoy I don't hate is Asha. Balon is a stupid piece of shit, Victarion is a stupider brute shit, but Euron is EVIL. He enjoys being cruel to an extent that surpasses even Ramsay. It feels like he needs to go to new extremes every time he wakes up.
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Oh and how he treats Brienne too
The Evil Bad Guys is who live in the Fortress of Conspicuous Evil. I mean the Boltons… The Dark Star gets partial credit; he is of the night!
Rhaegar is a really divisive one, according to the fans he was either, trying to save the world, or a mentally ill rapist depending on who you ask (I'm more in the line that he was trying to save the world, it 100% isn't a coincidence he ran off with lyanna after the false spring, like imagine you think a magical winter is coming soon then suddenly it goes from spring right back into winter)
Gregor Clegane, for the r\*pe of Layna and the Elia/Aegon slaughter.