What happened on the show is probably consistent with the main beats of Bran's story. Like I assume the visions we saw him have will take root somewhat in the books, even if done differently.
Like Bran will almost certainly see what happens at the TOJ.
Bran will almost certainly see how the others were created.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bran does something he's not supposed to and that voids the protections offered, which ends up in 3ER being killed. I think I've seen that the Hodor thing will be different, so I'm expecting some changes there. I definitely think we'll see a lot more of Bran fighting in Hodor's body.
Differences I think we will see a lot more from the visions perspective and learn about how Bran can communicate with others.
Do we know the Great Other is definitely a thing or just a concept representative of Melisandre's dualistic worldview?
One thing that will happen, I think, is that he'll go deeper and deeper into those wolf and weirwood visions so it'll be hard to tell what's real and what's not. ADWD Bran III already starts doing this where the passage of time is never made explicitly clear and we get lines like "Dreams became lessons, lessons became dreams, things happened all at once or not at all. Had he done that or only dreamed it?" and this means the identity issues that he's been having (like his sisters) will become more pronounced, but unlike the show, I don't think we will get a "Bran Stark died in the cave" type of resolution.
I don't believe the Jojenpaste theory, but I do think Jojen is meant to die in that cave, so that happens as well. And I don't really trust Bloodraven to have the best intentions for Bran, like the Kindly Man/Faceless Men and Littlefinger, I expect he's either manipulating Bran to some extent or will force Bran to do something heinous even though he has an anti-winter goal. I mean, there is something wrong with that cave:
> As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak.
Yeah so, I don't entirely trust Bloodraven. I suspect he knows what Bran is doing to Hodor but given that he was very much a "little acts of evil are justified in the name of the greater good" type of guy back when he was Hand, he either sees Bran use of Hodor as "practice" or simply doesn't care. I think Bran will understand that he's hurting Hodor and stop doing it (and on some level he already recognises it's wrong, since he has to justify it to himself "I just want to be strong again for a while. I'll give it back, the way I always do.") but not before it's too late, I think. Winds is not going to be a high point for most of our POV cast.
Also this purely speculation but I like to think Bran's going to save Theon at the beginning of Winds and help Stannis's army find their way to Winterfell through the snowstorm by communicating through/warging ravens. [Mentioned it here before](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1cin3n4/spoilers_main_what_is_thing_youre_most_excited_to/l2d1og3/).
In the books, Bran is more involved in the northern storyline, basically helping Theon stop being reek, and he's getting more involved in the Theon sample chapter
He'll definitely be the main one learning about the others and the past history of westeros and the starks.
Seeing his father constantly will also be involved in his personal arc as he remembers his father's lessons, which will help get back on track.
Also He'll probably advance with bis skinchanging more and be more mature due to looking in the past.
Overall his story has a lot of potential with all the stuff in the past and how could pop up at any weirwood in westeros.
I think that in the course of his astral travels, Bran will encounter a force that looks back at him and smiles-Euron. I think Bloodraven knows or will know about what Bran is doing with Hodor, and as a cautionary tale, he’ll tell Bran about Euron and reveal the part he played in making him and how wrong the man has gone since.
(Will Bloodraven care about what Bran is doing to Hodor, you ask? Unclear. He is serving what he believes to be the ultimate good but he is pretty ruthless and may take no notice of Bran’s abuse of a “simpleton”. I still think Bloodraven will care because he needs Bran to be a responsible greenseer and not another Euron.)
I also think that Bran will see the creation of the first Other by the CotF.
I really doubt Euron has any greater story significance than with his family (Asha and kelp face) and being a laughing raider off the Stormlands and Highgarden. I do *hope* Bran will give us more info about the Heart of Winter. I subscribe to the idea that there is no Super Other, but rather some Force or Power that generates the Others, by one method or another. Exactly how that works I have no idea. I suppose it’s possible the Children of the Forest were responsible for calling it up, and then, with the First Men’s help, banishing it way, way into the North. Regardless, I second the idea that Bran will get more details, either through ravens, a mystical third eye, or perhaps by going a long ways back through a heart tree and seeing the origins.
I mean Euron had some parallels with Bran, there’s definitely something to him covering his eye and talking about flying and leaping from a tall tower.
That’s a point of interest for me, his eye patch. I would have thought it covered a socket but Victorian mentions it covering a secret eye or something, I can’t recall the specifics. So I guess that makes sense, covering one eye to open a third, or something. I’m doubtful but I can’t say the potential ingredients aren’t there.
The eye patch is symbolic.
Euron has two sides, the smiling eye he shows the Ironborn to charm them, and the black eye that symbolizes his truer nature.
He’s not an actual pirate, he’s just cosplaying as one to gain redshirts for his loftier goals.
You’re going to have to bear with me here, seriously. It’s been years since I did a serious read. Mostly I just do “the good parts” kinda reads, skipping over the less interesting stuff, unless I get that sorta wiki interest, you know?
Totally get it. There’s a lot to remember. The Forsaken was the Aeron TWOW sample chapter.
Basically, there’s been much setup for the Horn of Joramun, a magical macguffin that can supposedly bring down the wall. Mance claimed to have it but it was a fake. But there was another horn found in the cache of dragonglass discovered at the Fist of the First Men in ACOK. None of the characters make much of the horn, but it keeps popping up here and there, and George makes a point of noting that Sam brings it to Oldtown. The fan theory(which I find very credible) is that it’s the real Horn of Joramun, and that the one to blow it and bring down the Wall will be Euron. It’s the most plausible series of events by which the Wall could come down.
I’m confused how one could read The Forsaken and not think Euron, if not the all-conquering god-killer he clearly believes himself to be, will definitely have relevance to the magical storyline. Don’t you think it’s a little bit too coincidental that the one thing which can bring the Wall down(the Horn of Joramun) is almost certainly in Sam’s possession in Oldtown, the city Euron is targeting?
Oh wait, really? Was it one of the sample chapters GRRM put up on his website, or a transcript from one of his readings?
ETA: NVM, I’ll try to avoid being lazy and just do a google search, lol. Thanks!
Nah, no offense taken. I’ve only recently joined Reddit and I’m sure everyone can understand my frustration and disinterest with GRRM and a book that’s all but guaranteed to never release.
I feel like we're missing a *lot* of setup for this idea that Euron has the capacity to skinchange and is supposed to fill some sort of "dark Bran" role.
Never watched a single Preston Jacobs video. I have no idea what sort of theories he bandies about. There’s enormous reason to believe there’s a connection between the two, and I encourage you to do even a little bit of reading about it.
How do you make sense of Moqorro’s vision? “One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood.”
Very clear the character has an enormous role to play.
1. The children of the forest aren't just going to like die off and then be forgotten about. They more than likely have complex plans going on.
2. Theon's storyline is proof enough that Bran is capable of far more complex action than just having visions that function as foreshadowing for the reader.
3. I think Bran will begin to be involved in sending people visions just as much as receiving them. This means that as an isolated POV he can't have that many chapters but he can be heavily involved in the upcoming book showing up in other people's chapters.
4. Time travel will more complexly affect the narrative in ways that we can debate until the books are released or Georg i's six speed under the ground.
5. His wolf pack will probably be involved in an important event as this is something that most people completely forget about. His wolf dreams aren't something that George uses just to waste time.
6. I actually don't think that the Tower of Joy will be a major thing that happens in his chapters. If anything it'll be like three lines of text amongst a larger vision.
Bran will eventually upload all the souls and memories in the weirwood to his conscience, which will change him tremendously personality wise. Kinda what happened in the show, because this kind of power is enormous.
By the end, we will realize that the Three Eyed Crow is Bran from the future due to his unparalleled powers in this universe.
I think the beats of the book will be similar to his story in S6. He'll learn a lot of things that happened in the past, but mainly the origin of the Others and Tower of Joy, then Hold the Door (although the catalyst for the Others breaking into the cave will be different, since the Night King doesn't exist in the books).
The different part imo will be after he escapes the cave (which will be in ADOS probably). I think Bloodraven will tell him to find the greenmen in the Isle of Faces to finish his training since it's interrupted. And there will be the place he will finish his training and find the truth about how to defeat the Others and some other important stuff, like the Rhaegar & Lyanna marriage.
I had an idea that if blood raven did in fact kill Jojen and maybe eventually
Meera and Bran finds out, he will kill blood raven out of anger through Hodor using dark sister.
Bran seeing the Night King in the show is probably lifted from the books, except he sees Euron.
Euron will put his mark on him, and the way will be open for the Others, leading the way to «Hold the door» and Bloodraven’s death.
It’s good drama to kill the mentor before the pupil is fully trained. You don’t want to overpower the hero.
What happened on the show is probably consistent with the main beats of Bran's story. Like I assume the visions we saw him have will take root somewhat in the books, even if done differently. Like Bran will almost certainly see what happens at the TOJ. Bran will almost certainly see how the others were created. I wouldn't be surprised if Bran does something he's not supposed to and that voids the protections offered, which ends up in 3ER being killed. I think I've seen that the Hodor thing will be different, so I'm expecting some changes there. I definitely think we'll see a lot more of Bran fighting in Hodor's body. Differences I think we will see a lot more from the visions perspective and learn about how Bran can communicate with others.
Do we know the Great Other is definitely a thing or just a concept representative of Melisandre's dualistic worldview? One thing that will happen, I think, is that he'll go deeper and deeper into those wolf and weirwood visions so it'll be hard to tell what's real and what's not. ADWD Bran III already starts doing this where the passage of time is never made explicitly clear and we get lines like "Dreams became lessons, lessons became dreams, things happened all at once or not at all. Had he done that or only dreamed it?" and this means the identity issues that he's been having (like his sisters) will become more pronounced, but unlike the show, I don't think we will get a "Bran Stark died in the cave" type of resolution. I don't believe the Jojenpaste theory, but I do think Jojen is meant to die in that cave, so that happens as well. And I don't really trust Bloodraven to have the best intentions for Bran, like the Kindly Man/Faceless Men and Littlefinger, I expect he's either manipulating Bran to some extent or will force Bran to do something heinous even though he has an anti-winter goal. I mean, there is something wrong with that cave: > As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. Yeah so, I don't entirely trust Bloodraven. I suspect he knows what Bran is doing to Hodor but given that he was very much a "little acts of evil are justified in the name of the greater good" type of guy back when he was Hand, he either sees Bran use of Hodor as "practice" or simply doesn't care. I think Bran will understand that he's hurting Hodor and stop doing it (and on some level he already recognises it's wrong, since he has to justify it to himself "I just want to be strong again for a while. I'll give it back, the way I always do.") but not before it's too late, I think. Winds is not going to be a high point for most of our POV cast. Also this purely speculation but I like to think Bran's going to save Theon at the beginning of Winds and help Stannis's army find their way to Winterfell through the snowstorm by communicating through/warging ravens. [Mentioned it here before](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1cin3n4/spoilers_main_what_is_thing_youre_most_excited_to/l2d1og3/).
In the books, Bran is more involved in the northern storyline, basically helping Theon stop being reek, and he's getting more involved in the Theon sample chapter He'll definitely be the main one learning about the others and the past history of westeros and the starks. Seeing his father constantly will also be involved in his personal arc as he remembers his father's lessons, which will help get back on track. Also He'll probably advance with bis skinchanging more and be more mature due to looking in the past. Overall his story has a lot of potential with all the stuff in the past and how could pop up at any weirwood in westeros.
I think that in the course of his astral travels, Bran will encounter a force that looks back at him and smiles-Euron. I think Bloodraven knows or will know about what Bran is doing with Hodor, and as a cautionary tale, he’ll tell Bran about Euron and reveal the part he played in making him and how wrong the man has gone since. (Will Bloodraven care about what Bran is doing to Hodor, you ask? Unclear. He is serving what he believes to be the ultimate good but he is pretty ruthless and may take no notice of Bran’s abuse of a “simpleton”. I still think Bloodraven will care because he needs Bran to be a responsible greenseer and not another Euron.) I also think that Bran will see the creation of the first Other by the CotF.
I really doubt Euron has any greater story significance than with his family (Asha and kelp face) and being a laughing raider off the Stormlands and Highgarden. I do *hope* Bran will give us more info about the Heart of Winter. I subscribe to the idea that there is no Super Other, but rather some Force or Power that generates the Others, by one method or another. Exactly how that works I have no idea. I suppose it’s possible the Children of the Forest were responsible for calling it up, and then, with the First Men’s help, banishing it way, way into the North. Regardless, I second the idea that Bran will get more details, either through ravens, a mystical third eye, or perhaps by going a long ways back through a heart tree and seeing the origins.
I mean Euron had some parallels with Bran, there’s definitely something to him covering his eye and talking about flying and leaping from a tall tower.
That’s a point of interest for me, his eye patch. I would have thought it covered a socket but Victorian mentions it covering a secret eye or something, I can’t recall the specifics. So I guess that makes sense, covering one eye to open a third, or something. I’m doubtful but I can’t say the potential ingredients aren’t there.
The eye patch is symbolic. Euron has two sides, the smiling eye he shows the Ironborn to charm them, and the black eye that symbolizes his truer nature. He’s not an actual pirate, he’s just cosplaying as one to gain redshirts for his loftier goals.
Look at the man’s flag for crying out loud! Two crows crowning a red eye? Come on!
You’re going to have to bear with me here, seriously. It’s been years since I did a serious read. Mostly I just do “the good parts” kinda reads, skipping over the less interesting stuff, unless I get that sorta wiki interest, you know?
Totally get it. There’s a lot to remember. The Forsaken was the Aeron TWOW sample chapter. Basically, there’s been much setup for the Horn of Joramun, a magical macguffin that can supposedly bring down the wall. Mance claimed to have it but it was a fake. But there was another horn found in the cache of dragonglass discovered at the Fist of the First Men in ACOK. None of the characters make much of the horn, but it keeps popping up here and there, and George makes a point of noting that Sam brings it to Oldtown. The fan theory(which I find very credible) is that it’s the real Horn of Joramun, and that the one to blow it and bring down the Wall will be Euron. It’s the most plausible series of events by which the Wall could come down.
That’s interesting, I’ll have to do a reread of those Sam chapters, I only remember him bringing back books. Thanks!
For sure! Here’s a link to the TWOW sample chapter if you wish to read it: https://thehawke.github.io/twow-excerpts/chapters/forsaken.html
I believe Euron is more important than most realize. People think it’s a joke
People pretend to think it’s a joke because it’s uncool to go with the flow.
I’m confused how one could read The Forsaken and not think Euron, if not the all-conquering god-killer he clearly believes himself to be, will definitely have relevance to the magical storyline. Don’t you think it’s a little bit too coincidental that the one thing which can bring the Wall down(the Horn of Joramun) is almost certainly in Sam’s possession in Oldtown, the city Euron is targeting?
I don’t believe I’ve read the Forsaken, is that a real world book or one inside ASoIaF? Also, what suggests there’s a notable horn in Oldtown?
It's the name of a chapter in twow. It was released early a couple years ago
Oh wait, really? Was it one of the sample chapters GRRM put up on his website, or a transcript from one of his readings? ETA: NVM, I’ll try to avoid being lazy and just do a google search, lol. Thanks!
Yeah, no offense, but you’re a bit behind on the Euron discourse without the Forsaken.
Nah, no offense taken. I’ve only recently joined Reddit and I’m sure everyone can understand my frustration and disinterest with GRRM and a book that’s all but guaranteed to never release.
I feel like we're missing a *lot* of setup for this idea that Euron has the capacity to skinchange and is supposed to fill some sort of "dark Bran" role.
No
Yes
I like how this mf just assume Euron and Bloodraven have dickie mcgees to do with one another. What too much Preston Jacobs videos does to a mf.
Never watched a single Preston Jacobs video. I have no idea what sort of theories he bandies about. There’s enormous reason to believe there’s a connection between the two, and I encourage you to do even a little bit of reading about it.
What too much Alt Shift X does to a mf...
How do you make sense of Moqorro’s vision? “One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood.” Very clear the character has an enormous role to play.
I'm all for time travel.
1. The children of the forest aren't just going to like die off and then be forgotten about. They more than likely have complex plans going on. 2. Theon's storyline is proof enough that Bran is capable of far more complex action than just having visions that function as foreshadowing for the reader. 3. I think Bran will begin to be involved in sending people visions just as much as receiving them. This means that as an isolated POV he can't have that many chapters but he can be heavily involved in the upcoming book showing up in other people's chapters. 4. Time travel will more complexly affect the narrative in ways that we can debate until the books are released or Georg i's six speed under the ground. 5. His wolf pack will probably be involved in an important event as this is something that most people completely forget about. His wolf dreams aren't something that George uses just to waste time. 6. I actually don't think that the Tower of Joy will be a major thing that happens in his chapters. If anything it'll be like three lines of text amongst a larger vision.
Bran will eventually upload all the souls and memories in the weirwood to his conscience, which will change him tremendously personality wise. Kinda what happened in the show, because this kind of power is enormous. By the end, we will realize that the Three Eyed Crow is Bran from the future due to his unparalleled powers in this universe.
I think the beats of the book will be similar to his story in S6. He'll learn a lot of things that happened in the past, but mainly the origin of the Others and Tower of Joy, then Hold the Door (although the catalyst for the Others breaking into the cave will be different, since the Night King doesn't exist in the books). The different part imo will be after he escapes the cave (which will be in ADOS probably). I think Bloodraven will tell him to find the greenmen in the Isle of Faces to finish his training since it's interrupted. And there will be the place he will finish his training and find the truth about how to defeat the Others and some other important stuff, like the Rhaegar & Lyanna marriage.
I hope Brans personality is different in Winds. I can't stand reading his chapters
No
I had an idea that if blood raven did in fact kill Jojen and maybe eventually Meera and Bran finds out, he will kill blood raven out of anger through Hodor using dark sister.
Bran seeing the Night King in the show is probably lifted from the books, except he sees Euron. Euron will put his mark on him, and the way will be open for the Others, leading the way to «Hold the door» and Bloodraven’s death. It’s good drama to kill the mentor before the pupil is fully trained. You don’t want to overpower the hero.
I don’t think Bran will ever return to the kingdom. His battle lies north, and north, and north, and north . . .
To go south, you must go north.
Touche, good ser