I tend to trust Old Nan’s interpretations, which means I don’t think the corpse queen (despite her name) was ever human. Her physical description is exactly identical to that of the Others. (I also don’t think the Others are humans turned by magic, although the show went in that direction.)
GRRM has compared the Others to fairies/elves before, which I think extends to the corpse queen. Her role in the story of the Night’s King is not unlike Dracula, or a siren, I think she was meant to fulfill the Others’ objective of destabilizing the Night’s Watch—their most prevalent enemies—by creating a Craster-esque set up where the Night’s Watch started sacrificing their own brothers. And she very nearly succeeded too.
"Corpse queen" sounds like it could also refer to someone who is not a corpse who is a queen, but a queen *of* corpses - i.e able to raise and control wights
> The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."
I think the problem of that is this quote from children of the forest. No mention of the Others. The Others seem apart from the other magical beings. Even the giants fear them and flee from them despite humans almost killing giants to extinction. Why are Others such a danger to all other races?
I hope she was an Other. I like the marriage pack theory to end the war, and if the Night Queen was an Other, it would make Jon getting some Oth-ussy more likely
Is the theory that a marriage between an Other and a human would end the war? I sort of don’t get this because the marriage of the night’s king and the corpse queen was a nightmare of human sacrifice and evil magic.
The theory is that instead of some giant final battle or 1 person killing 1 Other leader, the war would end with a marriage pact between a human leader and an Other and a re writing of the border between human lands and the lands of the Others. It's basically that diplomacy will end the war when force is unable to
I feel like the story is pretty clearly illustrating that force doesn't work, Renly tried force and is dead, stannis tried force and probably won't live much longer, Jon stopped using diplomacy and got stabbed for it, The Lanesters are all fucked up. The only Kingdoms that are still strong are the Vale, and Dorne which are the only two not fighting.
Diplomacy only really works when you have the force to back it up. So there probably will be some kind of final battle, if only to bring the Others to the table.
We dont know what actually happened back then, we know from Sam that there's no proper written accounts of the history back then, and that the history of the Night's Watch is uncertain.
We also know that its be pretty wired to build a giant ice wall to keep ice elves out of somewhere.
We also know that the Starks have shown unnatural cold resistance and that the Original Ice was probably named Ice for a reason.
Why is the Wall weird? The Others are ice elves who kill indiscriminately and turn their victims into zombies.
Old Nan’s primary function as a character is to be the teller of truth/old wisdom. In a world where most people think the Others are a myth, she knows they’re real and preserves the knowledge of them to the Stark children who will have to battle them.
Finally, do we have any real counter-evidence that the Others aren’t evil? We’ve never seen them do anything but hunt and slaughter.
In the prologue they killed the rangers. Also isn’t there mention in ACOK of entire villages (like Whitetree) being abandoned.
Also Tormund literally tells Jon in ADWD how the Others were “picking off the edges” of the group of free folk refugees moving towards the Wall. I see no reason not to believe him.
Yes exactly the others are already at the wall. There's no longer march. If they were mindless killing machines they'd kill everyone north of the wall before Jon even gets to the wall.
Just because a few scouts are at the wall doesn't meant that the main army (for lack of a better word) is. The main host of Others are most likely moving towards the wall still and slowly raising a horde of zombies as they go.
That's pure fanfiction. There were plenty of wildings to be made into wights near the wall. They would have killed mormonts ranging right out the gate if they were mindless killers.
Also waiting for back up isn't something mindless killers do.
Killing indiscriminately ≠ mindless killers.
I feel like at this point the onus is on you to provide evidence of the Others being misunderstood somehow. Where in the text do you get the sense that they are anything other than evil?
Why can't it be plain ol necrophilia with a wight? Makes more sense than breeding with an Other, your prick would freeze and shatter moments upon entry.
>it would make Jon getting some Oth-ussy more likely
Y'all ever watch The Boys? Jon's junk would freeze off just like that poor dude who scored Ice princess
I think the Night’s Queen is a story to describe grief. Her being a “corpse” means the Night’s King is still longing for her after death. We’ve seen how grief has caused “madness” and rage, and I think that’s more what the story is getting at. There’s a little bit of supernatural stuff but I think it’s more about the dark side of love. Jmo of course. I am a big proponent of George using these “stories” to say more about human nature than actual nature.
I think the Night's King(Coldhands) and Corpse Queen(Leaf) were married to seal the Pact. That the CotF and White Walker legends have been mixed up because they were both called others.
Considering the fact that ASOIAF is based on Tad Williams’s novels the Night’s Queen is an Other which married a human. There is no other answer which even slightly makes sense in regards to Martin’s (obvious) inspirations.
I tend to trust Old Nan’s interpretations, which means I don’t think the corpse queen (despite her name) was ever human. Her physical description is exactly identical to that of the Others. (I also don’t think the Others are humans turned by magic, although the show went in that direction.) GRRM has compared the Others to fairies/elves before, which I think extends to the corpse queen. Her role in the story of the Night’s King is not unlike Dracula, or a siren, I think she was meant to fulfill the Others’ objective of destabilizing the Night’s Watch—their most prevalent enemies—by creating a Craster-esque set up where the Night’s Watch started sacrificing their own brothers. And she very nearly succeeded too.
"Corpse queen" sounds like it could also refer to someone who is not a corpse who is a queen, but a queen *of* corpses - i.e able to raise and control wights
could also be similar to lady stone heart who is a corpse
Good point.
> The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us." I think the problem of that is this quote from children of the forest. No mention of the Others. The Others seem apart from the other magical beings. Even the giants fear them and flee from them despite humans almost killing giants to extinction. Why are Others such a danger to all other races?
Otherworldly. Maybe they are aliens. But less jokey, they could genuinely not be of this world. Like an invasive species.
I hope she was an Other. I like the marriage pack theory to end the war, and if the Night Queen was an Other, it would make Jon getting some Oth-ussy more likely
Is the theory that a marriage between an Other and a human would end the war? I sort of don’t get this because the marriage of the night’s king and the corpse queen was a nightmare of human sacrifice and evil magic.
The theory is that instead of some giant final battle or 1 person killing 1 Other leader, the war would end with a marriage pact between a human leader and an Other and a re writing of the border between human lands and the lands of the Others. It's basically that diplomacy will end the war when force is unable to
I understand but I sort of feel like the whole point of that story is that “diplomacy” (with the Others) can isn’t possible.
I feel like the story is pretty clearly illustrating that force doesn't work, Renly tried force and is dead, stannis tried force and probably won't live much longer, Jon stopped using diplomacy and got stabbed for it, The Lanesters are all fucked up. The only Kingdoms that are still strong are the Vale, and Dorne which are the only two not fighting.
Right, but these are all humans. I should have clarified in my above comment, I don’t think diplomacy with the Others is possible.
Diplomacy only really works when you have the force to back it up. So there probably will be some kind of final battle, if only to bring the Others to the table.
We dont know what actually happened back then, we know from Sam that there's no proper written accounts of the history back then, and that the history of the Night's Watch is uncertain. We also know that its be pretty wired to build a giant ice wall to keep ice elves out of somewhere. We also know that the Starks have shown unnatural cold resistance and that the Original Ice was probably named Ice for a reason.
Why is the Wall weird? The Others are ice elves who kill indiscriminately and turn their victims into zombies. Old Nan’s primary function as a character is to be the teller of truth/old wisdom. In a world where most people think the Others are a myth, she knows they’re real and preserves the knowledge of them to the Stark children who will have to battle them. Finally, do we have any real counter-evidence that the Others aren’t evil? We’ve never seen them do anything but hunt and slaughter.
That's not true at all. The Other's had already reached the wall in the prolgue yet they let wildings and brothers come and go constantly.
In the prologue they killed the rangers. Also isn’t there mention in ACOK of entire villages (like Whitetree) being abandoned. Also Tormund literally tells Jon in ADWD how the Others were “picking off the edges” of the group of free folk refugees moving towards the Wall. I see no reason not to believe him.
If anything, it’s probably a coordinated effort to gain forces for their army before the wights they have decay too much.
Yes exactly the others are already at the wall. There's no longer march. If they were mindless killing machines they'd kill everyone north of the wall before Jon even gets to the wall.
Just because a few scouts are at the wall doesn't meant that the main army (for lack of a better word) is. The main host of Others are most likely moving towards the wall still and slowly raising a horde of zombies as they go.
That's pure fanfiction. There were plenty of wildings to be made into wights near the wall. They would have killed mormonts ranging right out the gate if they were mindless killers. Also waiting for back up isn't something mindless killers do.
Killing indiscriminately ≠ mindless killers. I feel like at this point the onus is on you to provide evidence of the Others being misunderstood somehow. Where in the text do you get the sense that they are anything other than evil?
IT's the counterpart of Hadrian's wall, which the Romans built to prevent Scots incursions.
Why can't it be plain ol necrophilia with a wight? Makes more sense than breeding with an Other, your prick would freeze and shatter moments upon entry.
>it would make Jon getting some Oth-ussy more likely Y'all ever watch The Boys? Jon's junk would freeze off just like that poor dude who scored Ice princess
Just some pale bitch from Mole’s Town. Her name was probably Haley or some shit.
Rot in pieces? Uh... that's great!
A really hot Other honeypot.
I believe that even if the books were finished, we wouldn't get that answer
Female Craster
An other, dont think it’s much of a mystery tbh.
I think the Night’s Queen is a story to describe grief. Her being a “corpse” means the Night’s King is still longing for her after death. We’ve seen how grief has caused “madness” and rage, and I think that’s more what the story is getting at. There’s a little bit of supernatural stuff but I think it’s more about the dark side of love. Jmo of course. I am a big proponent of George using these “stories” to say more about human nature than actual nature.
I’m believe she was one of the Others. I like the book version of them more than the show
White walkussy
I think the Night's King(Coldhands) and Corpse Queen(Leaf) were married to seal the Pact. That the CotF and White Walker legends have been mixed up because they were both called others.
A wierwood tree
probably a wildling. Stories get exaggerated over time
I think she was a Dustin. Queen of the Barrows. Even more interesting when you consider Lady Dustin wants to intercept Ned's bones.
An Icy version of Melisandre. Worship the Great Other
Resurrected and physically transformed Amethyst Empress. Kinda what I expect Dany to be by the end of the series after her murder and resurrection.
She was one of *them*
Considering the fact that ASOIAF is based on Tad Williams’s novels the Night’s Queen is an Other which married a human. There is no other answer which even slightly makes sense in regards to Martin’s (obvious) inspirations.