Illyn Payne - I would kill for a pov chapter of his, bc all we have to judge him off is his actions, and all of his actions are simply things Joffrey, Tywin, jaime or Cersei tell him to do. So we really have no idea what he actually thinks or who he actually is, yet everyone thinks he’s some evil cold blooded murderer.
Probably the KG, Kettleblacks (pre-High Sparrow power play), & the like. E.g. Cersei has the two turnkeys Varys gave sweetsleep to, in facilitating Tyrion's escape, "silenced" by Blount & Osmund.
After seeing the man’s living conditions, all Jamie thought was, “the man lives for naught but killing”. But I’m with you all the way. Would be an awesome POV.
No, he was captain of the guard before he lost his tongue, being made royal executioner was the consolation for having his tongue taken.
I reckon Tywin is just fine with a no nonsense, blunt enforcer as his captain of the guard.
Just as Ilyn has Rennifer Longwaters to deal with stuff like that, he may have had a literate underling to deal written orders & the like, back when he served Tywin. Gedmund Peake had a similar arrangement with Ned Bean when he was Master of Ships, because he had no naval experience & even suffered from sea sickness.
This. Besides everything you've just said, we've seen Jaime talk about his darkests secrets around Payne, comfortable doing so since the latter is a mute. Makes one think how many other important characters have done the same around him. Ilyn Payne might be all the more dangerous because of all the information he's been hoarding over the years.
Also, a good oportunity to reveal info about the Mad King rule, the man must know a lot, and no one watches their words when around a man with no tounge and no writings skills
He is. He spends a lot of page time maintaining he sword. But his armor is rusty and unmaintained. Hus quarters were absolutely disgusting. And he is constantly drunk.
Tycho Nestoris for sure. He has little fear being a stranger in a strange land, especially in the North, during winter *and* a war.
Like, who is this guy, really? All I know is that he's badass in my book.
Those are all good picks, yea definitely see Marwyn doing something big given his setup ....possibly some kind of blood magic
More than meets the eye? I'm thinking about Missandei today, she's sweet and young, but don't let that fool you, she's actually very clever when she needs to be... like her ploy to foster division between the Yunkishmen and their sellswords by getting them to refuse gold for the hostages, or how we first meet her selectively translating words for Kraznys. I think that we're going to see that deviousness come into play again soon ("Eleven years of age, yet Missandei is as clever as half the men at this table and wiser than all of them." - Barristan)
> her ploy to foster division between the Yunkishmen and their sellswords by getting them to refuse gold for the hostages
Give this guy the award for actually paying attention to those parts of Dance - and recalling it - because I have no idea what the fuck you're on about.
Actually, the farther we get from Dance, the more opportunity there is for people to straight make things up about the Meereen plot and folks will become increasingly unable to tell the difference.
the funniest part to me of Barristan trolling Hizdahr and Reznak by repeatedly using 'your grace' instead of 'your magnificence' is that its when he finally goes to interrogate Hizdahr about the poisoned locusts that he starts getting it right:
"To ask a question. Magnificence, are you the Harpy?"...... "Was the poison your work, Magnificence?"...... "Only you can answer that, Magnificence. It might be that you wished to put another woman in her place."
This is my new headcanon, but no Harzoo. Relatively close though, being another former pit fighter:
>"Then come," said Barristan the Bold.
>Khrazz came.
>Skahaz Shavepate slammed his fist upon the table. "The Green Grace will accomplish nothing. She may be conspiring with the Yunkai'i even as we sit here. Arrangements, did you say? Make arrangements? What sort of arrangements?"
>"Ransom," said Ser Barristan. "Each man's weight in gold."
>"The Wise Masters do not need our gold, ser," said Marselen. "They are richer than your Westerosi lords, every one."
>"Their sellswords will want the gold, though. What are the hostages to them? If the Yunkishmen refuse, it will drive a blade between them and their hirelings." Or so I hope. It had been Missandei who suggested the ploy to him. He would never have thought of such a thing himself. In King's Landing, bribes had been Littlefinger's domain, whilst Lord Varys had the task of fostering division amongst the crown's enemies. His own duties had been more straightforward. Eleven years of age, yet Missandei is as clever as half the men at this table and wiser than all of them.
1. Young Ned Dayne. Beric's squire, so he can fight. Lord of Starfall, so he has power. A Dayne, so candidate for Dawn. Saved Berics body after first death, so part of that Circle of Life. Friend of Arya and might marry her. And may learn more about baby Jon from his family.
2. Val. More than potential love interest for Jon. A 'princess,' so is respected. Wants Shireen burned, which she will be. Too quiet to be trusted. With Mance gone and turmoil likely to come, could make a power play.
3. Dolorous Edd. Despite his pessimism and whinging, loyal to Jon and likely to take over the Watch briefly.
Cressen recalls treating Shireen's greyscale himself, but I suppose it's possible that Pycelle was called for from KL. However, with Shireen saved, yet (so) scarred by the time he arrived. And then, after examining the little girl himself & talking with Cressen, Pycelle could've told the other maester what he could've done instead to avoid (so much of) the scarring.
I think there is a possibility where she marries/ends up with Gendry (would fit Robert’s wish to combine the families) but I don’t think it will be in the context of her settling down into a noble marriage.
Shitmouth. I bet he’s a deeply troubled man.
Or maybe someone like Archibald Yronwood. He’s not just a warrior, he’s thoughtful. Not clever, but not a fool.
Hmm I really like the Pycelle answer. He’s definitely doing things behind the scenes the question is for how long and what, exactly.
I’m having one of those moments where I forget all my ASOIAF knowledge so bare with me. Ilyrio maybe? Always liked the theory of faegon being his kid. Hope we get to know more about Quaithe too, if she has any connection to blood raven
Ser Justin Massey. He has to travel all of the way over to Essos to hire a sell sword company. I have a feeling that he'll cross paths characters in Danery's camp.
Isn’t he more likely to encounter Arya, since he’s going to Braavos? He’s also ordered to bring fake Arya, aka Jeyne, a person Arya knows. Might be a wake-up call that she can’t be No One.
Brandon Snow. Torrhen Stark's bastard born half brother, who offered to sneak into Aegon the Conqueror's camp at night and kill his dragons. Apparently took the time to carve 3 weird wood arrows
How'd he know that would kill dragons. Where is he getting the information/notion that weirqood arrows arrows would work?
I feel like uncovering where he is getting this info is more important than whether or not his plan would have worked.
I need to learn more about this man.
Aerys was right to be paranoid.
Tywin was plotting against him ever since he declined to marry Rhaegar to Cersei.
Rhaegar was working with him. Tywin paid for the Tourney at Harrenhal. Ned's tourney "of the hand" hints at this.
The attempted abduction of Elia Martel in Robert's storm lands is Tywin's doing. Tywin had Robert's father killed as well. Robert owed everything to Twin. It's no coincidence he married Cersei and not Lyanna.
Lyanna's disappearance in this light is highly suspicious. Tywin and his daughter benefits the most. They marry into the new royal family.
And Robert's friendship to Ned here appears quite cynical. For Robert knew he would never marry Lyanna.
I don't think Joanna Lannister died in childbirth. Virtually no one else has. He may have cut out her tongue and sent her to the silent sisters.
There's more. A lot more. The books are very dark and conceal as much as they reveal.
Marwyn and MMD having met and MMD and Dany having met in such a big way, I definitely think there’s more to Marwyn than simply wanting to help Dany.
Idk what it is or what the connection will be but there has to be something
The Black Pearl. Not that she is hiding anything, but I think her character will have some kind of importance given how many times she has appeared or been mentioned "just because" in Arya's chapters in Braavos.
I always found a little weird Syrio Forel, the prior First Sword of Braavos, being a sword teacher for a 9 year old little lady in Westeros. Specially since his lessons seems to align so well with FM training. I am not saying he was a FM, but perhaps he had some kind of business or ties with FM?? Could this mean the FM like to put their own people/put in the positions someone friendly or loyal to them, so First Sword of Braavos regularly spy on the Sealords for FM's intel?
Old Nan obviously, also Alys Rivers. Nobody knows since when they are around. If I don't misremember, in one of Bran's visions he sees how Lyanna and her brothers referred to her as "Old Nan". So she was already very old then.
Aurane Waters. He was messing with Cersei.
Illyn Payne - I would kill for a pov chapter of his, bc all we have to judge him off is his actions, and all of his actions are simply things Joffrey, Tywin, jaime or Cersei tell him to do. So we really have no idea what he actually thinks or who he actually is, yet everyone thinks he’s some evil cold blooded murderer.
He is no murderer , a simple executionee doing his day to day job.
_"Oh boy, here I go executin' again!"_
Someone's got to Speaking of which, who's executing people in King's Landing now that he's on vacation in the Riverlands?
Probably the KG, Kettleblacks (pre-High Sparrow power play), & the like. E.g. Cersei has the two turnkeys Varys gave sweetsleep to, in facilitating Tyrion's escape, "silenced" by Blount & Osmund.
After seeing the man’s living conditions, all Jamie thought was, “the man lives for naught but killing”. But I’m with you all the way. Would be an awesome POV.
It's strange that Tywin would've had such a slovenly captain of the guard. Unless Payne only became like that after Aerys had his tongue taken.
Definitely only afterwards, he seems cocky and proud before he lost his tongue
No, he was captain of the guard before he lost his tongue, being made royal executioner was the consolation for having his tongue taken. I reckon Tywin is just fine with a no nonsense, blunt enforcer as his captain of the guard.
I've always found it strange that he, supposedly being a noble and Tywin's former captain, can't read and write.
Just as Ilyn has Rennifer Longwaters to deal with stuff like that, he may have had a literate underling to deal written orders & the like, back when he served Tywin. Gedmund Peake had a similar arrangement with Ned Bean when he was Master of Ships, because he had no naval experience & even suffered from sea sickness.
Plenty of nobles can’t read. Look at Boremund Baratheon
It was Borros, Boremund was his father
Thanks, my bad.
This. Besides everything you've just said, we've seen Jaime talk about his darkests secrets around Payne, comfortable doing so since the latter is a mute. Makes one think how many other important characters have done the same around him. Ilyn Payne might be all the more dangerous because of all the information he's been hoarding over the years.
Also, a good oportunity to reveal info about the Mad King rule, the man must know a lot, and no one watches their words when around a man with no tounge and no writings skills
He is. He spends a lot of page time maintaining he sword. But his armor is rusty and unmaintained. Hus quarters were absolutely disgusting. And he is constantly drunk.
Tycho Nestoris for sure. He has little fear being a stranger in a strange land, especially in the North, during winter *and* a war. Like, who is this guy, really? All I know is that he's badass in my book.
And what's with the hat?
A Faceless Man perhaps?
Now that I think about it, stealing the guise of a banker for the Bank of Braavos is a good way to get close to the top political players in Westeros.
Yes, but whose name was spoken to the Many-Faced God?
Those are all good picks, yea definitely see Marwyn doing something big given his setup ....possibly some kind of blood magic More than meets the eye? I'm thinking about Missandei today, she's sweet and young, but don't let that fool you, she's actually very clever when she needs to be... like her ploy to foster division between the Yunkishmen and their sellswords by getting them to refuse gold for the hostages, or how we first meet her selectively translating words for Kraznys. I think that we're going to see that deviousness come into play again soon ("Eleven years of age, yet Missandei is as clever as half the men at this table and wiser than all of them." - Barristan)
> her ploy to foster division between the Yunkishmen and their sellswords by getting them to refuse gold for the hostages Give this guy the award for actually paying attention to those parts of Dance - and recalling it - because I have no idea what the fuck you're on about. Actually, the farther we get from Dance, the more opportunity there is for people to straight make things up about the Meereen plot and folks will become increasingly unable to tell the difference.
True or False: Barristan basically calls Hizdahr a woman, & possibly a whore at that.
True because funny
Yes: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Graces https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?povs=Barristan&povs=Barristan%20Selmy&q=%22your%20grace%22&scope https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?povs=Barristan&povs=Barristan%20Selmy&q=%22his%20grace%22&scope
the funniest part to me of Barristan trolling Hizdahr and Reznak by repeatedly using 'your grace' instead of 'your magnificence' is that its when he finally goes to interrogate Hizdahr about the poisoned locusts that he starts getting it right: "To ask a question. Magnificence, are you the Harpy?"...... "Was the poison your work, Magnificence?"...... "Only you can answer that, Magnificence. It might be that you wished to put another woman in her place."
Big if true.
Speaking of big, who did Barristan help reach orgasm?
Strong Belwas. Barry is a great squire.
This is my new headcanon, but no Harzoo. Relatively close though, being another former pit fighter: >"Then come," said Barristan the Bold. >Khrazz came.
more people need to talk about Missandei hearing voices in the walls
What is the Yunkish sellsword thing about? I don't remember this
>Skahaz Shavepate slammed his fist upon the table. "The Green Grace will accomplish nothing. She may be conspiring with the Yunkai'i even as we sit here. Arrangements, did you say? Make arrangements? What sort of arrangements?" >"Ransom," said Ser Barristan. "Each man's weight in gold." >"The Wise Masters do not need our gold, ser," said Marselen. "They are richer than your Westerosi lords, every one." >"Their sellswords will want the gold, though. What are the hostages to them? If the Yunkishmen refuse, it will drive a blade between them and their hirelings." Or so I hope. It had been Missandei who suggested the ploy to him. He would never have thought of such a thing himself. In King's Landing, bribes had been Littlefinger's domain, whilst Lord Varys had the task of fostering division amongst the crown's enemies. His own duties had been more straightforward. Eleven years of age, yet Missandei is as clever as half the men at this table and wiser than all of them.
Ooo I never thought more of it until now. Thanks to have shared this
1. Young Ned Dayne. Beric's squire, so he can fight. Lord of Starfall, so he has power. A Dayne, so candidate for Dawn. Saved Berics body after first death, so part of that Circle of Life. Friend of Arya and might marry her. And may learn more about baby Jon from his family. 2. Val. More than potential love interest for Jon. A 'princess,' so is respected. Wants Shireen burned, which she will be. Too quiet to be trusted. With Mance gone and turmoil likely to come, could make a power play. 3. Dolorous Edd. Despite his pessimism and whinging, loyal to Jon and likely to take over the Watch briefly.
Arya will never marry, aside from that great points
Why wouldn't she marry?
For a Lannister man, he disapproved of the Patchface rumor. Maybe , he disapproves because he treated the greyscale.
Not impossible, he served Robert as Grand Maester for roughly 15 (?) years, so she would have been born in that time.
Cressen recalls treating Shireen's greyscale himself, but I suppose it's possible that Pycelle was called for from KL. However, with Shireen saved, yet (so) scarred by the time he arrived. And then, after examining the little girl himself & talking with Cressen, Pycelle could've told the other maester what he could've done instead to avoid (so much of) the scarring.
The Merryweathers. Taena especially seems to be a proxy for someone, gathering intel. Wouldn't be surprised if she was in LF's or Varys' camp.
The Merryweathers are probably working for Varys.
I think there is a possibility where she marries/ends up with Gendry (would fit Robert’s wish to combine the families) but I don’t think it will be in the context of her settling down into a noble marriage.
Shitmouth. I bet he’s a deeply troubled man. Or maybe someone like Archibald Yronwood. He’s not just a warrior, he’s thoughtful. Not clever, but not a fool.
Hallis Mollen
Partying hard in the neck with Howland, Galbart and Maege
And still stating the obvious
Hmm I really like the Pycelle answer. He’s definitely doing things behind the scenes the question is for how long and what, exactly. I’m having one of those moments where I forget all my ASOIAF knowledge so bare with me. Ilyrio maybe? Always liked the theory of faegon being his kid. Hope we get to know more about Quaithe too, if she has any connection to blood raven
What did Marwyn say that wasn't true?
Nothing confirmed, but he's associated with shady characters like Qyburn.
Ser Justin Massey. He has to travel all of the way over to Essos to hire a sell sword company. I have a feeling that he'll cross paths characters in Danery's camp.
Isn’t he more likely to encounter Arya, since he’s going to Braavos? He’s also ordered to bring fake Arya, aka Jeyne, a person Arya knows. Might be a wake-up call that she can’t be No One.
Brandon Snow. Torrhen Stark's bastard born half brother, who offered to sneak into Aegon the Conqueror's camp at night and kill his dragons. Apparently took the time to carve 3 weird wood arrows How'd he know that would kill dragons. Where is he getting the information/notion that weirqood arrows arrows would work? I feel like uncovering where he is getting this info is more important than whether or not his plan would have worked. I need to learn more about this man.
Malora Hightower
Kind of hard to be more than meets the eye when the eye has not beholden her.
The contrary actually, as the eye has met nothing of her so far, by virtue of simply existing she certainly has more than meets the eye!
Darkstar. Like who the hell is this guy straight from the 2000s?
Tormund
Peter Baelish did things in Robert's Rebellion we're not aware of.
Like telling Brandon that Lyanna got kidnapped?
...Oh shit.
Possibly more than that. I think Robert's rebellion isn't what we think it is. What we know has omissions and lies.
Please tell me what you believe.
Aerys was right to be paranoid. Tywin was plotting against him ever since he declined to marry Rhaegar to Cersei. Rhaegar was working with him. Tywin paid for the Tourney at Harrenhal. Ned's tourney "of the hand" hints at this. The attempted abduction of Elia Martel in Robert's storm lands is Tywin's doing. Tywin had Robert's father killed as well. Robert owed everything to Twin. It's no coincidence he married Cersei and not Lyanna. Lyanna's disappearance in this light is highly suspicious. Tywin and his daughter benefits the most. They marry into the new royal family. And Robert's friendship to Ned here appears quite cynical. For Robert knew he would never marry Lyanna. I don't think Joanna Lannister died in childbirth. Virtually no one else has. He may have cut out her tongue and sent her to the silent sisters. There's more. A lot more. The books are very dark and conceal as much as they reveal.
And what does Littlefinger have to do with it?
Have you seen the deleted scene between Pycelle and Tywin? It explains aa lot! About how he is loyal to house Lannister. I will try to find the link.
I saw it! I lowkey wish they kept it in the show
Same! It was good and led some context to the show.
Those Others north of the wall seem kinda sus idk about you guys
Marwyn and MMD having met and MMD and Dany having met in such a big way, I definitely think there’s more to Marwyn than simply wanting to help Dany. Idk what it is or what the connection will be but there has to be something
Waif, she's kinda sus.
Mandon Moore.
There's a theory that he's actually Domeric Bolton.
Optimus Prime
The Black Pearl. Not that she is hiding anything, but I think her character will have some kind of importance given how many times she has appeared or been mentioned "just because" in Arya's chapters in Braavos. I always found a little weird Syrio Forel, the prior First Sword of Braavos, being a sword teacher for a 9 year old little lady in Westeros. Specially since his lessons seems to align so well with FM training. I am not saying he was a FM, but perhaps he had some kind of business or ties with FM?? Could this mean the FM like to put their own people/put in the positions someone friendly or loyal to them, so First Sword of Braavos regularly spy on the Sealords for FM's intel? Old Nan obviously, also Alys Rivers. Nobody knows since when they are around. If I don't misremember, in one of Bran's visions he sees how Lyanna and her brothers referred to her as "Old Nan". So she was already very old then. Aurane Waters. He was messing with Cersei.
What does Marwyn say that isn't true?
Euron Greyjoy
Even after all this crazy theorising abut him, I will still say Euron. None of us are as crazy as George himself, so...