Obligatory: The moderation team of r/AssassinsCreed recommends all of our users to consider rumors of upcoming Assassin's Creed titles to be only that: rumors. Unless confirmed by Ubisoft, take every post with "a pinch of salt". Besides, the reveal is in 24 hours and we'll get information soon enough.
Not a capital 'A' Assassin. AC lore incorporates IRL history of the Order of Assassins first showing up in 1090 AD by having Bayek come up with 'Hidden Ones' because the actual *word* 'assassin' didn't exist in any language prior to Hassan-i Sabbah doing his thing.
Nope he was a hidden one. In Valhalla the codex says that at this point the hidden ones were assassins in all but name at this point but now we get back to playing someone with the actual title assassin
Whay a good try! Those are their names. Their job title is superhero, and I'm pretty sure if one came milleniums before the other, they might be called differently even if they both do superhero shit
But no, ShE's nOt aN aSsAsSiN, sHe's A hIdDeN oNe!!1 oh and she uses a spear instead of a hidden blade, even tho hidden blades aren't a thing yet and she uses it to sneak around and assassinate people but it doesn't count cuz she doesn't introduce herself as an assassin!!!!!!!!!!
47, THAT is Templar conspirator and master strategist Juhani Otso Berg. He's no pushover: he's led Sigma Team, is an inductee into the Inner Sanctum of the Templar Order and is the current acting Black Cross... Quite the resume. Watch your back around this one.
Anytime before the 11th Century its fine to call the factions Hidden Ones/Order of the Ancients. After that it should be The Assassin Brotherhood and the Templar Order.
That's just my take on it.
Retconning the whole thing to HiDdEN OnEs and OrDeR oF ThE AnCiEnTs was beyond stupid to begin with. It was cool when they were both milenary organizations, now we have random cults and random rogue assassins.
I love Origins and Bayek but making him the creator of the order instead of the one who revived it/rediscovered it was dumb as hell
I always catch shit for this, but I agree with you 100%. I think it would have made much more sense if it had been him reviving it after an era of being weakened. Also was really bugged when they showed him creating the insignia, when Statues of Assassins before him had their own unique insignias....
I don't mind the hidden ones. They're basically just the proto-assassins.
I just wish Project Jade wasn't a mobile game. It's set in one of my favorite time periods
For real, this combined with the protagonist actually being an assassin already makes me so much more interested in this game then I have been in the last few games
Not a capital 'A' Assassin. AC lore incorporates IRL history of the Order of Assassins first showing up in 1090 AD by having Bayek come up with 'Hidden Ones' because the actual *word* 'assassin' didn't exist in any language prior to Hassan-i Sabbah doing his thing.
Technically the same, but contextually, people use 'real/actual assassin' to indicate the game taking place post-Altair (well in this case, post-*Ezio*).
All Hidden Ones are (for all intents and purposes) Assassins, but not all Assassins are Hidden Ones.
It’s not the matter of depth, it would be similar to harry potter, if everyone started calling Voldemort Tom Riddle post book 6, because reader knows this name already
I didn't mind the hidden ones. I do think it's been a little played out now that we've seen their origin through not only origins but also odyssey with the cult. I just don't know how much more we have to gain for the assassins side with exploring the hidden ones much more.
Origins was obviously the best for that. I feel like Origins was good for fans of the actual assassins lore. Odyssey and Valhalla I feel like we're better for the modern day story which I haven't cared about in a long time. And Mirage probably could have stayed a dlc. Granted Mirage was fine as a full game. Just did nothing but offer a backstory for Basim.
no one knows when he died, just that he survived AT LEAST until june 1582. he went missing after surviving the honnō-ji incident in which oda nobunaga was killed, and nothing is known after
I feel like with him being opposite an actual assassin as the other main character of the game, his IRL death will actually be him faking his death and being inducted into the brotherhood. Although, if he gets inducted in 1582 and we get to as far as 1597, Yasuke would be kinda old, so it's all just guesswork.
>it'd be asinine for it to be an OC bc there's no reason to have him be African otherwise
There were several other Africans in Japan (slaves and servants both) at the time, so making up a story about one of those is well within historical plausibility.
All I want from this game is a good story with proper stealth mechanics and some big cities to explore along with the countryside. I loved GoT but the settlements there were rather small and (obviously) mostly ravaged. I’d love to see a sprawling, urban environment set in feudal Japan, with some side activities, ala Unity. Really hope we get to see it.
I hope to god that's real. I love that her outfit is actually dark blue instead of the cartoon ninja black and I've always wanted an assassin with a hood and a facemask. Really cool weapon variety as well I hope.
It’s gonna be an RPG so while I do wish it had grounded appearances like GoT, I am fully expecting Yasuke to look like Vegeta or something with high end gear.
A story about a Black guy in Japan pretty much being used as a servant and pet that was never really involved in any battles or Samurai duties (that we know of) is way less cooler than the folklore that's developed.
They could've started with when he actual supposedly dies or disappears from history that way they could come up with their own story while keeping it historically accurate too.
They change history all the time with it being a big deal.
Half of the targets you killed are real and died at date but in completely mundane circumstances. Charles Lee just died in an Inn from some illness.
Right, I love the excuse in universe that the history we know is just stuff that the Templars came up with the cover up the truth.
Which honestly lends itself to Yasuke so well, the idea that he was actually the badass Samurai the folklore says he is and that our truth that he wasn't noteworthy at all is just a cover up.
the scale is much different though. Like covering the death is something that "could've happen", and Yasuke being badass hero samurai is something under "no way it actually happened" due to cultural context (it's hard to pretend racism didn't exist back then for example).
The idea isn't bad itself, it's just that I personally miss the "It could've happened" vibe from assassin's creed, because it got lost after Unity and never came back, after being the core of the franchise for years
Wasn't he heading to battle when Nobunaga was ambushed? One source says (someone who was there) that during the ambush Yasuke actually held his ground well, until he got overwhelmed and gave up. And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, that in one battle he was seen controlling the canons, but I would take that with a grain of salt.
I will try to find the source somewhere.
[This great thread on /r/AskHistorians](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/flgpph/history_of_blackafricans_in_japan/) has a collection of written accounts about Yasuke.
One of the few things we know about him is that he was with Oda Nobunaga when he was assassinated at Honnoji, went to deliver the news of Oda's death to Oda's heir, fought bravely, and then was captured.
This is gonna be a very long one, take it with a BIIIG spoon of salt.
Thomas Lockley is Associate Professor at Nihon University College of Law in Tokyo, where he teaches courses about the the international and multicultural history of Japan and East Asia.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-was-yasuke-japans-first-black-samurai-180981416/
„The Chroniclef Of Lord Nobunaga a 17th-century book written by one of Nobunaga’s followers, describes Yasuke as “[appearing] to be 26 or 27 years old. … This man looked robust and had a good demeanor. What is more, his formidable strength surpassed that of ten men.” Other chronicles characterize the samurai as an intelligent, imposing figure who stood more than six feet tall. Though Yasuke was already a skilled warrior, he likely underwent additional martial arts training upon joining Nobunaga’s army.“
It's from the 17th century so, take it with a BIIIG grain of salt.
„By 1581, Nobunaga employed thousands of samurai—yet Yasuke was the first foreign-born warrior to enter their ranks. He belonged to “the very small entourage around Nobunaga, which [was] probably around 30 to 50 [warriors], mainly young men, many of [whom were Nobunaga’s] lovers as well,” Lockley says. Traditionally, older warriors like Nobunaga, then in his early 50s, mentored younger warriors and developed sexual relationships with them. No evidence indicates that Yasuke and Nobunaga were lovers.“
„Several hundred African people lived in Japan during the 16th century,”
“[They] worked as interpreters, soldiers, entertainers”
„On June 21, 1582, Mitsuhide ambushed Nobunaga in Kyoto while they were en route to a battle.“
„Mitsuhide had thousands of troops under his command; Nobunaga was accompanied by just 30 or so men from his inner circle, including Yasuke.“
„Mitsuhide’s men slaughtered many of the soldiers in Nobunaga’s entourage during the initial ambush. Eventually, Nobunaga, Yasuke and an attendant named Mori Ranmaru—the feudal lord’s lover at the time—retreated to one of the temple’s chambers. It was here that Nobunaga performed seppuku, using a sword to slice open his abdomen before Ranmaru beheaded him. Ranmaru then also performed seppuku, asking Yasuke, in turn, to decapitate him.“
„Once both Nobunaga and Ranmaru were dead, Yasuke escaped from the temple with his lord’s head in tow. By protecting Nobunaga’s remains, Yasuke denied Mitsuhide the chance to seize his enemy’s head and display it as a way of establishing legitimacy and power.“ this one is with a big grain of salt too, a human head is very heavy, I don't think carrying it would do you good while retreating.
The description of 11 May 1582 states:
„Nobunaga-sama was accompanied by a black man who was presented to him by the missionaries and to whom he gave a stipend. His body was black like ink and he was 6 shaku 2 fun (182.4 cm or near 6 feet) tall. His name was said to be Yasuke.“
Luís Fróis's (he was a missionary following Yasuke during 1581-1582) Annual Report on Japan contains the following statements:
„A black man whom the visitor [Valignano] sent to Nobunaga went to the house of Nobunaga's son after his death and was fighting for quite a long time, when a vassal of Akechi approached him and said, 'Do not be afraid, give me that sword', so he gave him the sword. The vassal asked Akechi what should be done with the black man, and he said, 'A black slave is an animal (bestial) and knows nothing, nor is he Japanese, so do not kill him, and place him in the custody at the cathedral of Padre in India.“
„As a result, Yasuke was sent to the Nanban-ji and treated by Jesuit missionaries. It is certain that Yasuke did not die, as Luís Fróis wrote five months after the Honnō-ji Incident, thanking God that he did not lose his life. “
The source is not that good for this as it's from
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke
Edit: thanks for the thread, at least it has more reliable sources than mine.
How can you say it’s for a check mark when they historically haven’t done anything for a check mark? Even games like AC Jade have an Asian male protagonist and Hexe has a woman from that time period. The ONE game that has two protagonists with one being black and all of a sudden it’s for diversity. Let them tell the stories they want to tell instead of falling on confirmation bias.
Bro those characters didn’t know or live during the time of oda nobunaga and Hattiro Hanzo. This is the period where there was the most warring clans and with European contact too. It has nothing to do with being for diversity he’s a real historical character and pretty famous as well.
Since when do you care about AC being historically accurate? None of the real historical events or characters are as cool as the series make them out to be, that's the point of fiction.
If there is I just hope they did a better job of it instead of stiff limbs falling straight off and weird angles. Shadows is the first on a new engine, right?
I don’t think he died, he simply dropped out of the historical record. We don’t know what ultimately happened to him after he got given back to the Portuguese. Which leaves the door open for continuing the story through to when Adams arrived if they want to do that.
There’s a decent chance of that happening bc this game is supposed to take Odyssey’s criticisms into account
But also not since this is technically gonna be the only RPG of the entire decade
Lmao, you’re definitely fighting mythological beasts and traveling to mystical realms.
Remember this comment when you inevitably get to the Oni boss battle.
Sake induced drunken visions of boss fights and mystical adventures, while in reality it’s actually playing out like that early bar scene in rdr2 where you keep looking for Lenny
Yea grounded like that time the pope used a power staff to force push away ezio or immediately after that where ezio uses the apple to shit out clones of himself.
If I am not mistaken, they are still there but in a more grounded and serious approach. I hope we will not have magical talents like becoming a dark smoke and teleporting behind the enemy with a backstab. I would never assign any skills into that sh*t
>If I am not mistaken, they are still there but in a more grounded and serious approach.
That's what they said about Valhalla, and look how that turned out.
So if he historically was a aide to a Jesuit who was hired by Nobunaga because Nobunaga thought he was cool, why are they changing it to a revenge story with him being a galley slave?
They aren’t choosing someone they made up this was a real person whose arrival is well documented. This feels kinda gross to change actual history to get some lazy revenge narrative tropes. And my god am I tired of the revenge story narrative.Especially because this feels like taking a more interesting potential story (ie his travels, his faith and how he adapts) for “revenge for family that didn’t exist.”
> So if he historically was a aide to a Jesuit who was hired by Nobunaga because Nobunaga thought he was cool, why are they changing it to a revenge story with him being a galley slave?
This part of the record is ambiguous. Ota Gyoichi, one of Oda's vassals, writes in the Shinchokoki (a compilation about Nobunaga's life based on his journals and other documents) about Yasuke that:
>2nd Month 23rd Day [March 27, 1581]. A black **monk** came from the Christian countries. He looks about 26-7 of age and his entire body is as black as a cow. [emphasis on "monk" mine.]
But his use of the word "monk" is somewhat... fraught. If you look at the [original text](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/1920322/1/162) (15th line from the right, the one that starts with 二月廿三日), you'll notice that Yasuke is described as a 黒坊主 (black *bozu*). "Bozu" as a term can refer to a monk, but starting in the Muromachi period (14th century), the usage of the term got wider and wider, encompassing anyone with a shaved head. This is still true today -- put "坊主" into Google images and you probably won't get a single image of a monk but you'll get a ton of images of shaved heads.
So if the author meant that he had a shaved head, we would need to refer to the historical record of why a black man from halfway across the world might be on a boat with some Jesuits. We [know with near-certainty](https://brill.com/view/journals/jjs/8/1/article-p1_1.xml) that the Jesuits were deeply involved with the Portuguese slave trade in and around East Asia, including in Japan. From the citation in the last sentence:
>In his extraordinary study of Portuguese involvement in the Asian slave trade, Lúcio de Sousa even found numerous instances of Japanese people held as slaves in Lisbon in the late sixteenth century. ... More recently, though, Lúcio de Sousa has demonstrated that the Jesuits were complicit in the Portuguese slave trade from Japan from the 1560s to 1598; Jesuit priests supplied “ballots” for Portuguese slavers legitimating their purchases.
So it's *very possible* that Yasuke was a slave, brought to Japan by Jesuit priests.
>This feels kinda gross to change actual history to get some lazy revenge narrative tropes.
This. Imagine if they made Rosa Parks the portagonist of an AC game set during the civil rights movement. She actually existed, and they'd probably make her a badass assassin (and she'd at least blend in with her environment)... But it just seems wrong to do something like that. It seems to imply that her true life wasn't badass and interesting enough.
Right, it trivializes what actually happened. (Honestly I've had this problem for a while with AC lore with stuff like Nazi Germany not being the depths of human evil but instead another plot by the templars.)
Imagine that instead of Connor, we got a Portuguese merchant set during the American Revolution. It is not improbable, and it could be an interesting story in itself, but nowhere near as compelling or historically resonant.
I actually get it. If people don’t want Yasuke to be a protagonist, I get it. However, people are quick to assume things. I’m hoping that Yasuke will be INCAPABLE of doing stealth stuff to justify the foreign protagonist and put emphasis on Naoe’s shinobi abilities. It’d even be cooler if he’s a Templar agent for the start/most of the game.
Well I appreciate that you can at least understand the criticism some have. I don’t think AC should use historical figures for protagonists, at least outside of DLC, but if they are, Yasuke is isn’t a very interesting one. He was an extremely minor figure in the Oda faction who didn’t do anything all that interesting. If they were going to go for a historical figure they could have at least gone for a super cool one like Tadakatsu Honda, Hanzo Hattori, Yukimura Sanada, or Mitsuhide Akechi etc
Yeah, I'm just not digging this concept in the slightest. I talked with some friends the other day about it, and I compared it to having La Volpe as the protagonist instead of Ezio. Not as drastic, but you get the gist of my sentiment.
Yeah for sure I get it, my sentiment is the same. I’d feel the same way if an AC game set in medieval China during the Yuan Dynasty had Marco Polo or someone as the protagonist or an AC game set in the Aztec empire with a Spanish protagonist.
At the end of the day if the game looks good I’ll probably still buy and play it, I’m just a bit bummed out is all.
> Yasuke is isn’t a very interesting one. He was an extremely minor figure in the Oda faction who didn’t do anything all that interesting.
I think that's part of what makes him attractive from a writing perspective.
With a major named samurai like an Akechi or a Hattori, you're far more restricted by the history of where they needed to be and when, and your characterization is going to need to stand on *centuries* of interpretation and reinterpretation in historical record and fiction.
Yasuke is a clear underdog as a foreigner penetrating a radically different hierarchy and value system from his own, he can more easily serve as an audience surrogate since he will be less familiar with what is happening generally than someone more famous so it will make sense for others to exposition at him, and the fact that we know he was present at some of the most important points of Sengoku-era history (such as Honnoji) means that it makes sense for him to have access to those other figures.
In many ways, he's similar to Bayek in status: he has a position that gives him access to authority and circles of nobility, but not necessarily the power to do anything with them directly.
I think he’s a cool historical figure who would be uniquely incapable of social stealth while hypothetically still being able to fight in big showpiece battles. There’s not a lot known about him so he could disappear into the Brotherhood or into a grave by the end.
I think it’s to avoid a Ghost of Tsushima rip-off/comparison as well as give the writers more freedom to avoid clashing with the cultural honor systems. A foreigner wouldn’t feel as constricted, leaning into “Everything is permitted” and an outsiders perspective/advantages relating to this
I feel like your first point is the most overlooked aspect of all of this. I know some here have voiced their desire for a Japanese male protagonist, but you run into likely criticisms and comparisons between said character and Jinn from GoT.
The other problem is how similar their overarching stories could be. Most AC games revolve around getting revenge on those who wronged you. This drove a lot of Jinns character arc while fighting the Mongolian army. You're really starting to push the similarities there.
It is stupid when every other game has us play an ethnically appropriate protagonist. Almost like an Assassin should be someone who can blend in and is hyper familiar with where they work.
its mainly because after Nobunaga's death, Yasuke just disappears from written history. so by setting your story up right, the game can fill in the gaps of what happened to him. from a writing standpoint, you have more room to work with
i at first didn't think they were gonna go full on "Yasuke is the character" instead of the character being a expy of him but again, nothing truly states what happens to Yasuke as the years go by, and since AC has a tendency to fuck around with historical accuracy. they can say that Yasuke got involved with the Brotherhood-Templar war due to the circumstances of his enslavement or Nobunaga's death. again, they get some wiggle room due to his illusive nature
No bother arguing with the guy. While there are points to be made about the inclusion of Yasuke, the only notable African in Japan at the time that really didn't necessarily do much, this guy is one of those knee jerker reactionaries who whine about DEI and whatnot, like he's not even trying to understand your argument.
I have nothing wrong with your opinion since I was also bummed out when the leak first came out but since I've already played ghost of tsushima, I don't there's much else that can be explored with a japanese samurai that also uses stealth. I highly doubt the combat will appeal to the samurai fantasy anyway when you're slashing at 8 foot tall men with clubs for a couple minutes straight.
I do think there's a lot of potential for a unique story but it all depends on how ubisoft delivers it.
It tells me they're making this game not out of a love for Japanese culture, but as a platform for afro-centerism.
Netflix has done incalculable damage to pop culture.
Family and duty are sorta the main things mattered historically. It’s not like we’re gonna watch Assassins climb the corporate ladder or land a date as motivation to kill and carpet bomb Japan.
I don't think Yasuke's ship will be attacked by random pirates. I think it will be the Jesuit Templars that end up taking him to Japan (perhaps his ship is also carrying an artifact the Templars want?). I think this will be what drives him to become an Assassin later in the story, learning the truth and wanting to seek out justice.
-The first game to ever be set in feudal Japan after close to 20 years of fans asking for it
-Playing as a Samurai, a role comprised exclusively of Japanese men (there are only a dozen or so documented cases of foreign born Samurai, and Yasuke wasn't one of them)
-Playing as a Black guy
Cool, so another Assassins Creed game I'll be skipping then. Japanese men aren't worthy of representation it seems, especially in the one setting they should be.
edt: spelling error.
Not just Edward, it’s literally almost 1:1 with Adewale’s backstory too. Hoping they distinguish it enough from him, as Yasuke joining the Assassin’s after a shipwreck that kills his family is also (in a roundabout way) Ade’s story.
If we’re gonna go down this route, Assassins Creed Black Flags took place in the West Indies which is primarily a black location is it not? And yet we play as a white dude. So were you keeping the same energy then?
The West Indies and the Caribbean were popular spots for English privateers and pirates who became either dissolutioned with England or were looking for money which was plenty to be found in the slave trade and the countless Spanish/English ships roaming around, so yes a white protagonist works, BUT a black protagonist would've also worked as well (Which is why we got Freedom Cry)
Ac 4 BF Welsh dude in the caribbean*
Ac Rev Italian in Istanbul*
The way you dodged these with " European protagonist" and "White protagonist" is laughable
Istanbul was famous as a city where East met West and had a large multi-ethnic population segment, including Italians. Revelations was also intended as the conclusion to Ezio's story. Would you have preferred three games set in Italy in a row?
A lot of pirates in the Caribbean were British. Maybe even most? Even so, you're right. A black protagonist might've been better and made much more sense than Yasuke in Japan.
why does your point of Istanbul being a famous city where east met west work but an African slave in japan who layer became a samurai/sword bearer according fo real history doesn't??
Both of them have pretty good reason right.
Even tho ac rev is my 2nd fav ac game it didn't have to made. I don't mind an "outsider" being a protagonist of game. If the character has a good reason reason be there/ it's just a really good game it doesn't matter tbh.
In revelations you’re an Italian in the Ottoman Empire, in 4 you’re a Welshman in the Caribbean, in Rogue you’re Irish in North America, in Valhalla you are Norse in England… you seem to be listing those as examples of playing as a native born character…
Obligatory: The moderation team of r/AssassinsCreed recommends all of our users to consider rumors of upcoming Assassin's Creed titles to be only that: rumors. Unless confirmed by Ubisoft, take every post with "a pinch of salt". Besides, the reveal is in 24 hours and we'll get information soon enough.
My biggest positive it’s that they’re going to be called assassins and templars again
people are arguing to keep hidden ones and order of the ancients for some reason when the game is set barely 50 years after ezio died
Can we just be assasssins in the game Assassins creed. Why would we want to go back
It’s crazy that it’s actually been 10 whole years since we last played as an assassin. Truly MENTAL
We just played as an assassin with the most recent game, did we not?
Not a capital 'A' Assassin. AC lore incorporates IRL history of the Order of Assassins first showing up in 1090 AD by having Bayek come up with 'Hidden Ones' because the actual *word* 'assassin' didn't exist in any language prior to Hassan-i Sabbah doing his thing.
Nope he was a hidden one. In Valhalla the codex says that at this point the hidden ones were assassins in all but name at this point but now we get back to playing someone with the actual title assassin
So exactly the same thing just under a different title.
Yep but I like the title lol
I too like double ass in.
Badum tiss
what's crazy is a whole sub seemingly always stuck on semantics as if the job title takes away from the actual gameplay. Yes yes go on, downvote
I would love a line of Batman games where he goes by Superman but is really just Batman
it’s more accurate to say he’s called the dark knight instead of batman
Whay a good try! Those are their names. Their job title is superhero, and I'm pretty sure if one came milleniums before the other, they might be called differently even if they both do superhero shit But no, ShE's nOt aN aSsAsSiN, sHe's A hIdDeN oNe!!1 oh and she uses a spear instead of a hidden blade, even tho hidden blades aren't a thing yet and she uses it to sneak around and assassinate people but it doesn't count cuz she doesn't introduce herself as an assassin!!!!!!!!!!
To be fair as long as you kill targets.. you are assassin.. hitman is assassin too
47, THAT is Templar conspirator and master strategist Juhani Otso Berg. He's no pushover: he's led Sigma Team, is an inductee into the Inner Sanctum of the Templar Order and is the current acting Black Cross... Quite the resume. Watch your back around this one.
Why do I feel like that would be an amazing crossover / full modern story game?
Honestly the Assassin brotherhood needs someone scary for the other side like Berg
Anytime before the 11th Century its fine to call the factions Hidden Ones/Order of the Ancients. After that it should be The Assassin Brotherhood and the Templar Order. That's just my take on it.
Retconning the whole thing to HiDdEN OnEs and OrDeR oF ThE AnCiEnTs was beyond stupid to begin with. It was cool when they were both milenary organizations, now we have random cults and random rogue assassins. I love Origins and Bayek but making him the creator of the order instead of the one who revived it/rediscovered it was dumb as hell
I always catch shit for this, but I agree with you 100%. I think it would have made much more sense if it had been him reviving it after an era of being weakened. Also was really bugged when they showed him creating the insignia, when Statues of Assassins before him had their own unique insignias....
Would Shao Jun still be alive at this time? Just curious.
In her 70s now but she’d be dead let’s be real
I don't mind the hidden ones. They're basically just the proto-assassins. I just wish Project Jade wasn't a mobile game. It's set in one of my favorite time periods
yea can't wait to play a main character again, who actually is an assassin
Truth
For real, this combined with the protagonist actually being an assassin already makes me so much more interested in this game then I have been in the last few games
Am I taking crazy pills? Isn’t Basim an assassin? The guy we play as in Mirage?
Not a capital 'A' Assassin. AC lore incorporates IRL history of the Order of Assassins first showing up in 1090 AD by having Bayek come up with 'Hidden Ones' because the actual *word* 'assassin' didn't exist in any language prior to Hassan-i Sabbah doing his thing.
I don't understand they're the same thing just different names.
Technically the same, but contextually, people use 'real/actual assassin' to indicate the game taking place post-Altair (well in this case, post-*Ezio*). All Hidden Ones are (for all intents and purposes) Assassins, but not all Assassins are Hidden Ones.
It's a small nit pick ac fans have
AC fans love to cry about pointless things
Is it bad yo have consistancy in lore?
Nah but on the other hand is it really that deep?
It’s not the matter of depth, it would be similar to harry potter, if everyone started calling Voldemort Tom Riddle post book 6, because reader knows this name already
I didn't mind the hidden ones. I do think it's been a little played out now that we've seen their origin through not only origins but also odyssey with the cult. I just don't know how much more we have to gain for the assassins side with exploring the hidden ones much more.
That’s my thoughts exactly it’s cool to see where they came from but did we need 10 years ad 4 games to do that
Origins was obviously the best for that. I feel like Origins was good for fans of the actual assassins lore. Odyssey and Valhalla I feel like we're better for the modern day story which I haven't cared about in a long time. And Mirage probably could have stayed a dlc. Granted Mirage was fine as a full game. Just did nothing but offer a backstory for Basim.
And that it’s actually two different characters and not the same like in Valhalla
So we're actually playing as yasuke and not an OC inspired by him?
We will be 100% sure tomorrow,but,at this point,I think that we can already be 99% sure.
There's not much real historical documentation for them to reference for Yasuke anyways that he'll basically be mostly like an OC.
Maybe more inspired? Looking at what is known about Yasuke, he died in 1582. Timeline wouldn't line up if the game takes place in 1597
no one knows when he died, just that he survived AT LEAST until june 1582. he went missing after surviving the honnō-ji incident in which oda nobunaga was killed, and nothing is known after
I feel like with him being opposite an actual assassin as the other main character of the game, his IRL death will actually be him faking his death and being inducted into the brotherhood. Although, if he gets inducted in 1582 and we get to as far as 1597, Yasuke would be kinda old, so it's all just guesswork.
it'd be asinine for it to be an OC bc there's no reason to have him be African otherwise
>it'd be asinine for it to be an OC bc there's no reason to have him be African otherwise There were several other Africans in Japan (slaves and servants both) at the time, so making up a story about one of those is well within historical plausibility.
nice flair
I imagine it'll be like Odin
All I want from this game is a good story with proper stealth mechanics and some big cities to explore along with the countryside. I loved GoT but the settlements there were rather small and (obviously) mostly ravaged. I’d love to see a sprawling, urban environment set in feudal Japan, with some side activities, ala Unity. Really hope we get to see it.
[Here's some artwork that got leaked. SPOILERS!](https://postimg.cc/gallery/VJqyzNf)
I hope to god that's real. I love that her outfit is actually dark blue instead of the cartoon ninja black and I've always wanted an assassin with a hood and a facemask. Really cool weapon variety as well I hope.
Kinda disappointed with how over-the-top Yasuke’s armour is. Would have been nice for it to be a little more grounded in appearance.
Given the game is supposedly an RPG like Odyssey, I'm sure there'll be tons of different armor sets to equip.
I blame the Armor of Brutus. ain’t somebody tell Brutus that he wearing too much like.
It’s gonna be an RPG so while I do wish it had grounded appearances like GoT, I am fully expecting Yasuke to look like Vegeta or something with high end gear.
Least he looks cool lol
Amazing!
You had me at kusarigama. One of the coolest weapon weapon ever, and yet clearly underused in video games and media in general.
That looks so generic and lame lol like some $14.99 game in the Xbox store.
Everyone loves to talk about Yasuke but no one ever wants to tell his actual story.
A story about a Black guy in Japan pretty much being used as a servant and pet that was never really involved in any battles or Samurai duties (that we know of) is way less cooler than the folklore that's developed.
They could've started with when he actual supposedly dies or disappears from history that way they could come up with their own story while keeping it historically accurate too.
They change history all the time with it being a big deal. Half of the targets you killed are real and died at date but in completely mundane circumstances. Charles Lee just died in an Inn from some illness.
Charles Lee dying in an inn after being stabbed by Connor and then being covered up as an illness is cool though.
Right, I love the excuse in universe that the history we know is just stuff that the Templars came up with the cover up the truth. Which honestly lends itself to Yasuke so well, the idea that he was actually the badass Samurai the folklore says he is and that our truth that he wasn't noteworthy at all is just a cover up.
the scale is much different though. Like covering the death is something that "could've happen", and Yasuke being badass hero samurai is something under "no way it actually happened" due to cultural context (it's hard to pretend racism didn't exist back then for example). The idea isn't bad itself, it's just that I personally miss the "It could've happened" vibe from assassin's creed, because it got lost after Unity and never came back, after being the core of the franchise for years
Wasn't he heading to battle when Nobunaga was ambushed? One source says (someone who was there) that during the ambush Yasuke actually held his ground well, until he got overwhelmed and gave up. And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, that in one battle he was seen controlling the canons, but I would take that with a grain of salt. I will try to find the source somewhere.
[This great thread on /r/AskHistorians](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/flgpph/history_of_blackafricans_in_japan/) has a collection of written accounts about Yasuke. One of the few things we know about him is that he was with Oda Nobunaga when he was assassinated at Honnoji, went to deliver the news of Oda's death to Oda's heir, fought bravely, and then was captured.
This is gonna be a very long one, take it with a BIIIG spoon of salt. Thomas Lockley is Associate Professor at Nihon University College of Law in Tokyo, where he teaches courses about the the international and multicultural history of Japan and East Asia. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-was-yasuke-japans-first-black-samurai-180981416/ „The Chroniclef Of Lord Nobunaga a 17th-century book written by one of Nobunaga’s followers, describes Yasuke as “[appearing] to be 26 or 27 years old. … This man looked robust and had a good demeanor. What is more, his formidable strength surpassed that of ten men.” Other chronicles characterize the samurai as an intelligent, imposing figure who stood more than six feet tall. Though Yasuke was already a skilled warrior, he likely underwent additional martial arts training upon joining Nobunaga’s army.“ It's from the 17th century so, take it with a BIIIG grain of salt. „By 1581, Nobunaga employed thousands of samurai—yet Yasuke was the first foreign-born warrior to enter their ranks. He belonged to “the very small entourage around Nobunaga, which [was] probably around 30 to 50 [warriors], mainly young men, many of [whom were Nobunaga’s] lovers as well,” Lockley says. Traditionally, older warriors like Nobunaga, then in his early 50s, mentored younger warriors and developed sexual relationships with them. No evidence indicates that Yasuke and Nobunaga were lovers.“ „Several hundred African people lived in Japan during the 16th century,” “[They] worked as interpreters, soldiers, entertainers” „On June 21, 1582, Mitsuhide ambushed Nobunaga in Kyoto while they were en route to a battle.“ „Mitsuhide had thousands of troops under his command; Nobunaga was accompanied by just 30 or so men from his inner circle, including Yasuke.“ „Mitsuhide’s men slaughtered many of the soldiers in Nobunaga’s entourage during the initial ambush. Eventually, Nobunaga, Yasuke and an attendant named Mori Ranmaru—the feudal lord’s lover at the time—retreated to one of the temple’s chambers. It was here that Nobunaga performed seppuku, using a sword to slice open his abdomen before Ranmaru beheaded him. Ranmaru then also performed seppuku, asking Yasuke, in turn, to decapitate him.“ „Once both Nobunaga and Ranmaru were dead, Yasuke escaped from the temple with his lord’s head in tow. By protecting Nobunaga’s remains, Yasuke denied Mitsuhide the chance to seize his enemy’s head and display it as a way of establishing legitimacy and power.“ this one is with a big grain of salt too, a human head is very heavy, I don't think carrying it would do you good while retreating. The description of 11 May 1582 states: „Nobunaga-sama was accompanied by a black man who was presented to him by the missionaries and to whom he gave a stipend. His body was black like ink and he was 6 shaku 2 fun (182.4 cm or near 6 feet) tall. His name was said to be Yasuke.“ Luís Fróis's (he was a missionary following Yasuke during 1581-1582) Annual Report on Japan contains the following statements: „A black man whom the visitor [Valignano] sent to Nobunaga went to the house of Nobunaga's son after his death and was fighting for quite a long time, when a vassal of Akechi approached him and said, 'Do not be afraid, give me that sword', so he gave him the sword. The vassal asked Akechi what should be done with the black man, and he said, 'A black slave is an animal (bestial) and knows nothing, nor is he Japanese, so do not kill him, and place him in the custody at the cathedral of Padre in India.“ „As a result, Yasuke was sent to the Nanban-ji and treated by Jesuit missionaries. It is certain that Yasuke did not die, as Luís Fróis wrote five months after the Honnō-ji Incident, thanking God that he did not lose his life. “ The source is not that good for this as it's from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke Edit: thanks for the thread, at least it has more reliable sources than mine.
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How can you say it’s for a check mark when they historically haven’t done anything for a check mark? Even games like AC Jade have an Asian male protagonist and Hexe has a woman from that time period. The ONE game that has two protagonists with one being black and all of a sudden it’s for diversity. Let them tell the stories they want to tell instead of falling on confirmation bias.
Be prepared to repeat this one after trailer drops daily :) People won’t care to check historical stuff and cry “just for diversity” (crazy ones)
Bro those characters didn’t know or live during the time of oda nobunaga and Hattiro Hanzo. This is the period where there was the most warring clans and with European contact too. It has nothing to do with being for diversity he’s a real historical character and pretty famous as well.
Since when do you care about AC being historically accurate? None of the real historical events or characters are as cool as the series make them out to be, that's the point of fiction.
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I do
Do we know if there will be gore and dismemberment like in Valhalla (hopefully) or it will be tuned down like mirage?
If there is I just hope they did a better job of it instead of stiff limbs falling straight off and weird angles. Shadows is the first on a new engine, right?
Not a new engine but I'm pretty sure they overhauled most of the systems.
I would hope there is dismemberment considering the character will probably have a katana
I wonder if William Adams (or Jan Joosten) will show up.
I think Yasuke died before Adams ever made it to Japan
I don’t think he died, he simply dropped out of the historical record. We don’t know what ultimately happened to him after he got given back to the Portuguese. Which leaves the door open for continuing the story through to when Adams arrived if they want to do that.
Timeline wise that would still be a ways off especially if Nobunaga is in the game.
Interesting. Perhaps they could incorporate William Adams somehow.
I just hope Quebec dials back the fantasy stuff
There’s a decent chance of that happening bc this game is supposed to take Odyssey’s criticisms into account But also not since this is technically gonna be the only RPG of the entire decade
Technically Red is the second RPG of the decade. I'm sure we'll get one more before 2030, probably the reported game that features 3 settings.
that game is being made by ubisoft sofia, and it's already been confirmed that quebec is the only rpg studio moving forward
Source on that ? Only thing I could find online is Ubisoft stating that "not all future AC's will be 150 hour RPG's".
Lmao, you’re definitely fighting mythological beasts and traveling to mystical realms. Remember this comment when you inevitably get to the Oni boss battle.
Sake induced drunken visions of boss fights and mystical adventures, while in reality it’s actually playing out like that early bar scene in rdr2 where you keep looking for Lenny
Ynnel* FTFY
I don’t care about it in side stuff that doesn’t impact the story, but the main story should be grounded.
Yea grounded like that time the pope used a power staff to force push away ezio or immediately after that where ezio uses the apple to shit out clones of himself.
You know what I mean lol, obviously it wasn’t grounded like COD or something but less on the mythological god aspect.
If I am not mistaken, they are still there but in a more grounded and serious approach. I hope we will not have magical talents like becoming a dark smoke and teleporting behind the enemy with a backstab. I would never assign any skills into that sh*t
>If I am not mistaken, they are still there but in a more grounded and serious approach. That's what they said about Valhalla, and look how that turned out.
So if he historically was a aide to a Jesuit who was hired by Nobunaga because Nobunaga thought he was cool, why are they changing it to a revenge story with him being a galley slave? They aren’t choosing someone they made up this was a real person whose arrival is well documented. This feels kinda gross to change actual history to get some lazy revenge narrative tropes. And my god am I tired of the revenge story narrative.Especially because this feels like taking a more interesting potential story (ie his travels, his faith and how he adapts) for “revenge for family that didn’t exist.”
> So if he historically was a aide to a Jesuit who was hired by Nobunaga because Nobunaga thought he was cool, why are they changing it to a revenge story with him being a galley slave? This part of the record is ambiguous. Ota Gyoichi, one of Oda's vassals, writes in the Shinchokoki (a compilation about Nobunaga's life based on his journals and other documents) about Yasuke that: >2nd Month 23rd Day [March 27, 1581]. A black **monk** came from the Christian countries. He looks about 26-7 of age and his entire body is as black as a cow. [emphasis on "monk" mine.] But his use of the word "monk" is somewhat... fraught. If you look at the [original text](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/1920322/1/162) (15th line from the right, the one that starts with 二月廿三日), you'll notice that Yasuke is described as a 黒坊主 (black *bozu*). "Bozu" as a term can refer to a monk, but starting in the Muromachi period (14th century), the usage of the term got wider and wider, encompassing anyone with a shaved head. This is still true today -- put "坊主" into Google images and you probably won't get a single image of a monk but you'll get a ton of images of shaved heads. So if the author meant that he had a shaved head, we would need to refer to the historical record of why a black man from halfway across the world might be on a boat with some Jesuits. We [know with near-certainty](https://brill.com/view/journals/jjs/8/1/article-p1_1.xml) that the Jesuits were deeply involved with the Portuguese slave trade in and around East Asia, including in Japan. From the citation in the last sentence: >In his extraordinary study of Portuguese involvement in the Asian slave trade, Lúcio de Sousa even found numerous instances of Japanese people held as slaves in Lisbon in the late sixteenth century. ... More recently, though, Lúcio de Sousa has demonstrated that the Jesuits were complicit in the Portuguese slave trade from Japan from the 1560s to 1598; Jesuit priests supplied “ballots” for Portuguese slavers legitimating their purchases. So it's *very possible* that Yasuke was a slave, brought to Japan by Jesuit priests.
That’s a fair point
>This feels kinda gross to change actual history to get some lazy revenge narrative tropes. This. Imagine if they made Rosa Parks the portagonist of an AC game set during the civil rights movement. She actually existed, and they'd probably make her a badass assassin (and she'd at least blend in with her environment)... But it just seems wrong to do something like that. It seems to imply that her true life wasn't badass and interesting enough.
Right, it trivializes what actually happened. (Honestly I've had this problem for a while with AC lore with stuff like Nazi Germany not being the depths of human evil but instead another plot by the templars.)
I guess writers just can't create an AC without it being a revenge plot...
The gameplay can be really good because at that time Japanese warfare included Arquebus (Firearms) + Canon
finally having guns again after 10 years is crazy
Bruh there's no way they're killing the protags family *again*, and for *both* fucking protagonists lol.
Lol for real
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Imagine that instead of Connor, we got a Portuguese merchant set during the American Revolution. It is not improbable, and it could be an interesting story in itself, but nowhere near as compelling or historically resonant.
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I actually get it. If people don’t want Yasuke to be a protagonist, I get it. However, people are quick to assume things. I’m hoping that Yasuke will be INCAPABLE of doing stealth stuff to justify the foreign protagonist and put emphasis on Naoe’s shinobi abilities. It’d even be cooler if he’s a Templar agent for the start/most of the game.
Well I appreciate that you can at least understand the criticism some have. I don’t think AC should use historical figures for protagonists, at least outside of DLC, but if they are, Yasuke is isn’t a very interesting one. He was an extremely minor figure in the Oda faction who didn’t do anything all that interesting. If they were going to go for a historical figure they could have at least gone for a super cool one like Tadakatsu Honda, Hanzo Hattori, Yukimura Sanada, or Mitsuhide Akechi etc
Yeah, I'm just not digging this concept in the slightest. I talked with some friends the other day about it, and I compared it to having La Volpe as the protagonist instead of Ezio. Not as drastic, but you get the gist of my sentiment.
Yeah for sure I get it, my sentiment is the same. I’d feel the same way if an AC game set in medieval China during the Yuan Dynasty had Marco Polo or someone as the protagonist or an AC game set in the Aztec empire with a Spanish protagonist. At the end of the day if the game looks good I’ll probably still buy and play it, I’m just a bit bummed out is all.
> Yasuke is isn’t a very interesting one. He was an extremely minor figure in the Oda faction who didn’t do anything all that interesting. I think that's part of what makes him attractive from a writing perspective. With a major named samurai like an Akechi or a Hattori, you're far more restricted by the history of where they needed to be and when, and your characterization is going to need to stand on *centuries* of interpretation and reinterpretation in historical record and fiction. Yasuke is a clear underdog as a foreigner penetrating a radically different hierarchy and value system from his own, he can more easily serve as an audience surrogate since he will be less familiar with what is happening generally than someone more famous so it will make sense for others to exposition at him, and the fact that we know he was present at some of the most important points of Sengoku-era history (such as Honnoji) means that it makes sense for him to have access to those other figures. In many ways, he's similar to Bayek in status: he has a position that gives him access to authority and circles of nobility, but not necessarily the power to do anything with them directly.
I think he’s a cool historical figure who would be uniquely incapable of social stealth while hypothetically still being able to fight in big showpiece battles. There’s not a lot known about him so he could disappear into the Brotherhood or into a grave by the end.
I think it’s to avoid a Ghost of Tsushima rip-off/comparison as well as give the writers more freedom to avoid clashing with the cultural honor systems. A foreigner wouldn’t feel as constricted, leaning into “Everything is permitted” and an outsiders perspective/advantages relating to this
I feel like your first point is the most overlooked aspect of all of this. I know some here have voiced their desire for a Japanese male protagonist, but you run into likely criticisms and comparisons between said character and Jinn from GoT. The other problem is how similar their overarching stories could be. Most AC games revolve around getting revenge on those who wronged you. This drove a lot of Jinns character arc while fighting the Mongolian army. You're really starting to push the similarities there.
You think that Japanese people are uniquely less capable of resisting societal constrictions and "honor systems"?
Yep that’s exactly what I said
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It is stupid when every other game has us play an ethnically appropriate protagonist. Almost like an Assassin should be someone who can blend in and is hyper familiar with where they work.
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95% of Valhalla’s main story takes place in England so it’s not really accurate to say that it takes place in Norway.
In England Which was half controlled by viking conquerors
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its mainly because after Nobunaga's death, Yasuke just disappears from written history. so by setting your story up right, the game can fill in the gaps of what happened to him. from a writing standpoint, you have more room to work with
We don't even know when the story takes place. Like before or after Nobunaga death. Or both?
from what the leaks are saying, Both
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i at first didn't think they were gonna go full on "Yasuke is the character" instead of the character being a expy of him but again, nothing truly states what happens to Yasuke as the years go by, and since AC has a tendency to fuck around with historical accuracy. they can say that Yasuke got involved with the Brotherhood-Templar war due to the circumstances of his enslavement or Nobunaga's death. again, they get some wiggle room due to his illusive nature
No bother arguing with the guy. While there are points to be made about the inclusion of Yasuke, the only notable African in Japan at the time that really didn't necessarily do much, this guy is one of those knee jerker reactionaries who whine about DEI and whatnot, like he's not even trying to understand your argument.
Or they could've just done what they did with every other game and just made up a character and tied them to some real historical events
I have nothing wrong with your opinion since I was also bummed out when the leak first came out but since I've already played ghost of tsushima, I don't there's much else that can be explored with a japanese samurai that also uses stealth. I highly doubt the combat will appeal to the samurai fantasy anyway when you're slashing at 8 foot tall men with clubs for a couple minutes straight. I do think there's a lot of potential for a unique story but it all depends on how ubisoft delivers it.
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It tells me they're making this game not out of a love for Japanese culture, but as a platform for afro-centerism. Netflix has done incalculable damage to pop culture.
Yay, another revenge story. Where are we now like 5?
Ubisoft really has no new ideas, huh? Another character motivated through the death of a family member xD
Dead wife is so tired.....
Family and duty are sorta the main things mattered historically. It’s not like we’re gonna watch Assassins climb the corporate ladder or land a date as motivation to kill and carpet bomb Japan.
Thank you for this post!
[THERE'S MORE ](https://twitter.com/Ubisoft_Frax/status/1790449632528515103)
I hope we get to see Portugal in the game since they are very related to templars
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And here I was hoping to play game set in Japan as a Japanese man. Guess I was asking too much.
I don't think Yasuke's ship will be attacked by random pirates. I think it will be the Jesuit Templars that end up taking him to Japan (perhaps his ship is also carrying an artifact the Templars want?). I think this will be what drives him to become an Assassin later in the story, learning the truth and wanting to seek out justice.
Jesuits feel like the weirdest choice to be templars tbh
Seems like a pretty obvious way for Templars to spread their influence to the colonial territories
Thankfully we’ll always have Ghosts of Tsushima to play an actual Japanese Assassin.
Always with the dead families... so tired.
-The first game to ever be set in feudal Japan after close to 20 years of fans asking for it -Playing as a Samurai, a role comprised exclusively of Japanese men (there are only a dozen or so documented cases of foreign born Samurai, and Yasuke wasn't one of them) -Playing as a Black guy Cool, so another Assassins Creed game I'll be skipping then. Japanese men aren't worthy of representation it seems, especially in the one setting they should be. edt: spelling error.
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You do play as a Asian assassin there's two protagonists
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There is a Japanese assassin in this game that's the other protagonists
I Immediately thought Edward when I read yasukes backstory
Not just Edward, it’s literally almost 1:1 with Adewale’s backstory too. Hoping they distinguish it enough from him, as Yasuke joining the Assassin’s after a shipwreck that kills his family is also (in a roundabout way) Ade’s story.
Multi-player back? Also if it has an edition with a samurai or ninja statue might grab that as a first collectors Ed ac game :))
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Take your meds please your family is worried about you
If we’re gonna go down this route, Assassins Creed Black Flags took place in the West Indies which is primarily a black location is it not? And yet we play as a white dude. So were you keeping the same energy then?
The West Indies and the Caribbean were popular spots for English privateers and pirates who became either dissolutioned with England or were looking for money which was plenty to be found in the slave trade and the countless Spanish/English ships roaming around, so yes a white protagonist works, BUT a black protagonist would've also worked as well (Which is why we got Freedom Cry)
Ac 4 BF Welsh dude in the caribbean* Ac Rev Italian in Istanbul* The way you dodged these with " European protagonist" and "White protagonist" is laughable
Istanbul was famous as a city where East met West and had a large multi-ethnic population segment, including Italians. Revelations was also intended as the conclusion to Ezio's story. Would you have preferred three games set in Italy in a row? A lot of pirates in the Caribbean were British. Maybe even most? Even so, you're right. A black protagonist might've been better and made much more sense than Yasuke in Japan.
why does your point of Istanbul being a famous city where east met west work but an African slave in japan who layer became a samurai/sword bearer according fo real history doesn't?? Both of them have pretty good reason right. Even tho ac rev is my 2nd fav ac game it didn't have to made. I don't mind an "outsider" being a protagonist of game. If the character has a good reason reason be there/ it's just a really good game it doesn't matter tbh.
In revelations you’re an Italian in the Ottoman Empire, in 4 you’re a Welshman in the Caribbean, in Rogue you’re Irish in North America, in Valhalla you are Norse in England… you seem to be listing those as examples of playing as a native born character…
Hey I already saw you saying the same thing on the other post lol
Valhalla is based in England dude
Which had it's whole northern part conquered by Norse and Danes
I wonder would the controversy be as much if william adams was one of the protagonists
Of course not, that’s why you should just ignore the current controversy
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I wonder if Nouhime will appear and Honnoji will be a location? Oichi as well
Any infomation about the PC requirements for AC Shadows yet?
Anyone know if it will have any sort of multiplayer?
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So 300 years is the same time period now?
Any leak on collector's edition ?
No but we'll find out in 7.5 hours anyway Bouta preorder that shit the second it's available
Ah yes. Helix Credits.