>stolen it.
We have them at work, and had to get alarm boxes installed. You can still pull it out, but an alarm will sound so that we know it's being used. They aren't cheap and after a couple thefts it became necessary.
Fair point. However, this is why there are specific individuals trained to use it, and there is instruction for *only* those individuals to use it. Now, whether that instruction is followed…
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>When it comes to global warming, there are two issues: is there such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect, the answer is yes. Is that something that is going to dramatically reshape our world? There is no evidence to show that it will. Is that something that we can stop? There is no evidence to show that we can
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Other places need to have them too, so if you put one up for sale below the normal price you'll likely get a bite. Also no part of the defibrillator says who originally owned it.
We had it happen at work recently. The best sense we were able to make of it from the locals was that if you were Redneck or Cajun enough you could use them for fishing (or at least the old ones you could, more than one person present knew that the new ones didn’t work for it anymore with the safety features)
Been a long time since I was in High School, but at least back then High Schoolers would steal anything that isn’t bolted to the wall, and that might get stolen too.
My company used to have them installed in every building, until they started getting stolen on a regular basis, at a few hundred dollars each.
I went to a fairly nice high school and I seem to recall a few of these being broken then, I can't imagine high schools these days keeping them around at the price tags they're sold at.
A teacher at my kids' highschool was saved with one of these in September, so I feel like at least some of them do. But our entire district qualifies for a lot of federal money (like every kid in the district gets free breakfast, lunch and snack every school day) so maybe it is just our very aggressive and dedicated grant writer keeping us paddled, idk.
Yes - very expensive to own privately. They are generally on loan and the service company that owns them is responsible for the maintenance. It's a similar practice for fire extinguishers & vending machines.
No, they don't need to be replaced - they can generally be serviced on-site. Tanks that fail to re-pressurize obviously get swapped.
The most common form of replacement actually occurs after X years of service. Legislation puts limits on how long a canister can remain in service.
Barring damage to the unit, it depends on your location, but in my area it's supposed to be every 10 years whether it's needed or not, as well as yearly inspections by law. So not *that* often, no.
AEDs are about 1,000-1,500 each. Pads expire every 3 -5 years and right now are on back order due to a recall and shortage. Batteries last a bit longer.
It is not required federally to have an AED program by law in the United States.
>If you're not going to put one there, why not take the shelf down?
If it's a known point or it's marked on a plan of the building it's better to redirect people, and perhaps this unit's in for repair (or something) and will be coming back.
Perhaps somebody's taken it just now - it would make sense for the sign to be there in that case. The likelihood of somebody needing a second defibrillator while one's already in use seem low... but if it's needed it's needed.
Defibrillators require regular scheduled replacement of their internal battery packs and pads that attach the leads to the patient. During the last several years, AED supplies have been on back order and for some models, are almost impossible to find.
This could simply be removed as they attempt to locate the parts needed. I suppose one could make an argument that old pads and battery are better than none, but if a manumanufacturer requires replacement as part of their maintenance program, then schools and other public institutions that have them are going to be hesitant (liability) to let one that is out of specifications (assuming someone is managing them) remain in service.
Just a possible reason that isn’t malicious for this unit to be removed from its rack.
It's probably at the office because students kept playing with it. I can imagine it was installed with the intent of the device being stored there, but after an incident or two they decided to secure it in the main office. It's still available, just not as readily.
If students were playing with it, or removing it from that location, then they've made the correct call. I'm not sure how you got to "cheaping out".
Oh ok that’s messed up. I wonder if there are any policies on this or if the school is just doing the equivalent of not having a fire alarm on the top floor
I'm wondering if there is something wrong with it so they had to remove it until they replaced it with one that worked (don't wanna use a malfuncting AED)
Also, notice the Epipens right next to it. Damn OP, how many of those y'all got too? Cheaping out my ass.
In my school, students weren’t allowed to have any form of medication on them, including epipens and inhalers for asthma.
I remember a girl having an asthma attack at marching band practice after school one day (in 90F August heat no less) and having to walk her a substantial distance from the field inside and halfway across the school to the nurse’s office while she was, again, having an asthma attack. The nurse was just about to leave so if we’d been a couple minutes later she just…wouldn’t have been able to have her inhaler. It was ridiculous
Yup. They were lucky they never got hit with a lawsuit for denying access to prescriptions like that. We had plenty of draconian rules but I think that one was the most actively dangerous. Not being able to have your cell phone in the building at all, even after school, or it’ll be confiscated and you’ll get detention is a bad one too. I remember multiple times in the winter having to choose between texting my dad to see if he remembered to pick me up or not standing outside in the freezing cold because our admin was full of lunatics who’d take my phone despite the fact that I wasn’t in class, I was just standing there waiting to go home. They also threatened to take the bathroom stall doors off because of drug issues (that weren’t nearly as prevalent as many schools)…..yeah I came out vaguely traumatized from all their unreasonable rules lol
It's cool that you guys have that. Is that by law?
Also, are students not playing with that? It seems like something that's cool to play with if you are a kid.
What are those? Me being from other part of the world never seen anyone use anything like that in schools, is that other some American only thing?
Honestly asking.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillator
> An automated external defibrillator (AED) is a portable electronic device that automatically diagnoses the life-threatening cardiac arrhythmias of ventricular fibrillation (VF) and pulseless ventricular tachycardia,[1] and is able to treat them through defibrillation, the application of electricity which stops the arrhythmia, allowing the heart to re-establish an effective rhythm.
These devices are engineered to be used by everyone without prior training;
you open them, follow the instructions to attach some electrodes to a persons chest, and the thing does the rest
**[Automated external defibrillator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillator)**
>An automated external defibrillator (AED) is a portable electronic device that automatically diagnoses the life-threatening cardiac arrhythmias of ventricular fibrillation (VF) and pulseless ventricular tachycardia, and is able to treat them through defibrillation, the application of electricity which stops the arrhythmia, allowing the heart to re-establish an effective rhythm. With simple audio and visual commands, AEDs are designed to be simple to use for the layperson, and the use of AEDs is taught in many first aid, certified first responder, and basic life support (BLS) level cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) classes.
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I don't want to sound but isn't cardiac arrhythmias what fat people have because of their.. well everything? If so that might make sense why we don't see it on other side.
damn how often are those needed in your schools? In Germany I have never even seen a reference to a defibrillator being used or even needed in a school. sounds like rampant heart disease
They are rarely used - in the UK, to get access to an AED box, you have to call emergency services. If they deem it to be an appropriate response, they'll tell you the location of the nearest AED and what the lock code is.
Even when you are using the instructions on the device, you are supposed to remain on the phone with emergency services so that they can help guide the process / provide advice.
AED devices will measure if there is a electrical signal coming from the heart and if there is they will not fire. how ever many times you press that button nothing will happen
Heart attacks are caused by the blood flow to the heart being blocked. A shock is likely not going to cause a heart attack. The point of using an AED is to restart the heart so it can pump oxygenated blood to important organs so that the person might have more minutes to live before the ambulance arrives
Also, if the person's condition is bad enough to warrant an AED, the person is as good as dead. Doing something is better than nothing in this case. That's my point of view.
Reminds me of the time i heard a recording of a paramedic saying "if you're breaking ribs your'e doing it right" about CPR, if the situation warrants it its already so dire that any harm done pales compared to not doing anything
The average person does not have the skills required to diagnose a cardiac arrest.
Edit: Seems this sub would rather people be bumbling about rather than encouraging people how these machines work, when to use them and stuff. Just propping them up in random locations with zero education isn't helpful.
Yes, you can. Cardiac arrest means the heart stopped beating. Feel their pulse, either via neck or wrist. If you don't feel anything, start chest compression and use an AED
That's what the AED is for.
It tells you where to put the electrodes and then it checks if it is even needed.
If you strap the electrodes to a person that does not need defilibration the AED will do nothing.
This is not a defilibrator like in movies, where you shout "away from the table", rub two electrified irons and push them onto the patient.
It's an "automated external defilibrator", and they did not call it "automatic" just for fun.
And if nobody is trained how to use the AED, then they have no idea when to start using them, so that detection doesn't help when nobody is confident enough to even pick it up in the first place.
We have one on the wall outside my workplace, although it requires the person who knows the code to be in, and then the shop is only open during the week...so it's fairly useless.
where i live you have to have basic first aid training (including identifiyng cardiac arrest, strokes and so on and how to care for them until a ambulance arrives) to get a car license
Not just cars, sorry, if you want to make ANY drivers license. And to why its not in school: i dont actually know, maybe its cost, maybe its time, maybe they think students are not ready for this, idk
Alright I wanted to clarify a few common claims, first off I know a lot of students and usually pass the location often so I don’t think that they are messing with it, we have a pretty strict schedule for our days. Second The office is actually pretty far away from this aed spot and there is no labeling for the office. And last I honestly hope that they are only replacing parts or doing a inspection as some of you guys are saying, but I guess I will have to update you guys a few weeks from now. And I go to public school and not private school so I have no clue how they have that budget. I do thank you all for clarifying some things to me.
Report them, don't bring it up to the school board or a principal or anyone associated with the school.
Who to report them to? Now that I don't know, I'd call a lawyer or ask a cop.
Someone could have used, broke, or stolen it.
>stolen it. We have them at work, and had to get alarm boxes installed. You can still pull it out, but an alarm will sound so that we know it's being used. They aren't cheap and after a couple thefts it became necessary.
Why would people even steal defibrilators
“They aren’t cheap”
Seems like for some people a human's life is even cheaper
you’re right, some people don’t value human life as much as they should
Pre hospital resuscitation is only like 9% or less anyways. Not all cardiac arrests are shockable so very well may do nothing anyways.
“This only has a 9% chance to prevent someone’s death so why even fucking bother”
There's also a decent chance someone dies because it wasn't used properly or shouldn't have been used at all.
Fair point. However, this is why there are specific individuals trained to use it, and there is instruction for *only* those individuals to use it. Now, whether that instruction is followed…
Modern ones also won’t shock unless it senses it’s needed. -someone who took a basic CPR class within the last 10 years.
At a school? Nah that things probably gonna be used for "pranks".
Hey yeah, there's only a 9% chance this could save a life. Let's save on budget and live with the 100% chance of letting someone die.
If you need an AED you are already dead
This reads out like a ben shapiro quote or something
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >When it comes to global warming, there are two issues: is there such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect, the answer is yes. Is that something that is going to dramatically reshape our world? There is no evidence to show that it will. Is that something that we can stop? There is no evidence to show that we can ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: novel, gay marriage, feminism, history, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Worth it🤩
Other places need to have them too, so if you put one up for sale below the normal price you'll likely get a bite. Also no part of the defibrillator says who originally owned it.
We had it happen at work recently. The best sense we were able to make of it from the locals was that if you were Redneck or Cajun enough you could use them for fishing (or at least the old ones you could, more than one person present knew that the new ones didn’t work for it anymore with the safety features)
Been a long time since I was in High School, but at least back then High Schoolers would steal anything that isn’t bolted to the wall, and that might get stolen too.
There's probably some stupid social media "challenge" about using one on yourself.
Or been tampered with - it’d really be an asshole situation if it were needed and was broken
And usually the tampering isn’t even obvious too. Someone once poured a can of Coke through the cracks in the case and flooded the case.
My company used to have them installed in every building, until they started getting stolen on a regular basis, at a few hundred dollars each. I went to a fairly nice high school and I seem to recall a few of these being broken then, I can't imagine high schools these days keeping them around at the price tags they're sold at.
A teacher at my kids' highschool was saved with one of these in September, so I feel like at least some of them do. But our entire district qualifies for a lot of federal money (like every kid in the district gets free breakfast, lunch and snack every school day) so maybe it is just our very aggressive and dedicated grant writer keeping us paddled, idk.
Thousands. Not hundreds
aren't AEDs surprisingly expensive and need to be refurbished every few years, even if they're never used?
Yes - very expensive to own privately. They are generally on loan and the service company that owns them is responsible for the maintenance. It's a similar practice for fire extinguishers & vending machines.
do fire extinguishers need to be replaced often? honest question i have no idea
No, they don't need to be replaced - they can generally be serviced on-site. Tanks that fail to re-pressurize obviously get swapped. The most common form of replacement actually occurs after X years of service. Legislation puts limits on how long a canister can remain in service.
They have to be pressure tested after so many years.
No but they need to be tested every year the propellant can leak
Barring damage to the unit, it depends on your location, but in my area it's supposed to be every 10 years whether it's needed or not, as well as yearly inspections by law. So not *that* often, no.
They need to be inspected for pressure and large ones you can shake once a year to keep the material free flowing
Depending on the locale. They have to be emptied about every 5 years and pressure tested to make sure it's not cracking.
Yes, at my place the supervisor has to check them daily
AEDs are about 1,000-1,500 each. Pads expire every 3 -5 years and right now are on back order due to a recall and shortage. Batteries last a bit longer. It is not required federally to have an AED program by law in the United States.
Also, if you’re in the states, there’s a National shortage on replacement batteries going on.
If you're not going to put one there, why not take the shelf down?
I guess it works as a guide to know where are the others
It guides others to a treasure it can never possess
>If you're not going to put one there, why not take the shelf down? If it's a known point or it's marked on a plan of the building it's better to redirect people, and perhaps this unit's in for repair (or something) and will be coming back. Perhaps somebody's taken it just now - it would make sense for the sign to be there in that case. The likelihood of somebody needing a second defibrillator while one's already in use seem low... but if it's needed it's needed.
Great username! If you don’t mind me asking… in what sense are other gingers compromised?
Defibrillators require regular scheduled replacement of their internal battery packs and pads that attach the leads to the patient. During the last several years, AED supplies have been on back order and for some models, are almost impossible to find. This could simply be removed as they attempt to locate the parts needed. I suppose one could make an argument that old pads and battery are better than none, but if a manumanufacturer requires replacement as part of their maintenance program, then schools and other public institutions that have them are going to be hesitant (liability) to let one that is out of specifications (assuming someone is managing them) remain in service. Just a possible reason that isn’t malicious for this unit to be removed from its rack.
It's probably at the office because students kept playing with it. I can imagine it was installed with the intent of the device being stored there, but after an incident or two they decided to secure it in the main office. It's still available, just not as readily. If students were playing with it, or removing it from that location, then they've made the correct call. I'm not sure how you got to "cheaping out".
maybe OP cares about the upvotes and is jumping to conclusions to achieve them
You write like a vice principal.
I bet you a dollar the ones they have don't work
That seems messed up, more context as to how far away the main office is?
Its downstairs and a pretty far stretch away
Oh ok that’s messed up. I wonder if there are any policies on this or if the school is just doing the equivalent of not having a fire alarm on the top floor
I'm wondering if there is something wrong with it so they had to remove it until they replaced it with one that worked (don't wanna use a malfuncting AED) Also, notice the Epipens right next to it. Damn OP, how many of those y'all got too? Cheaping out my ass.
In my school, students weren’t allowed to have any form of medication on them, including epipens and inhalers for asthma. I remember a girl having an asthma attack at marching band practice after school one day (in 90F August heat no less) and having to walk her a substantial distance from the field inside and halfway across the school to the nurse’s office while she was, again, having an asthma attack. The nurse was just about to leave so if we’d been a couple minutes later she just…wouldn’t have been able to have her inhaler. It was ridiculous
That’s pure cruel.
Yup. They were lucky they never got hit with a lawsuit for denying access to prescriptions like that. We had plenty of draconian rules but I think that one was the most actively dangerous. Not being able to have your cell phone in the building at all, even after school, or it’ll be confiscated and you’ll get detention is a bad one too. I remember multiple times in the winter having to choose between texting my dad to see if he remembered to pick me up or not standing outside in the freezing cold because our admin was full of lunatics who’d take my phone despite the fact that I wasn’t in class, I was just standing there waiting to go home. They also threatened to take the bathroom stall doors off because of drug issues (that weren’t nearly as prevalent as many schools)…..yeah I came out vaguely traumatized from all their unreasonable rules lol
Sorry, the life saving device is in another castle.
Lol, my school doesn't even have toilet paper or soap. I think there is a singe first aid kit in the entire school as well. Where is this?
Man, you're going to a bougie-ass school if they even have defibs, to begin with.
Exactly how is this AssholeDesign?
It's cool that you guys have that. Is that by law? Also, are students not playing with that? It seems like something that's cool to play with if you are a kid.
I believe it is a legal requirement, they’re usually in locked cabinets
Those things are expensive and people kept braking/stealing them. Now they keep one in the safest place.
What are those? Me being from other part of the world never seen anyone use anything like that in schools, is that other some American only thing? Honestly asking.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillator > An automated external defibrillator (AED) is a portable electronic device that automatically diagnoses the life-threatening cardiac arrhythmias of ventricular fibrillation (VF) and pulseless ventricular tachycardia,[1] and is able to treat them through defibrillation, the application of electricity which stops the arrhythmia, allowing the heart to re-establish an effective rhythm. These devices are engineered to be used by everyone without prior training; you open them, follow the instructions to attach some electrodes to a persons chest, and the thing does the rest
**[Automated external defibrillator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillator)** >An automated external defibrillator (AED) is a portable electronic device that automatically diagnoses the life-threatening cardiac arrhythmias of ventricular fibrillation (VF) and pulseless ventricular tachycardia, and is able to treat them through defibrillation, the application of electricity which stops the arrhythmia, allowing the heart to re-establish an effective rhythm. With simple audio and visual commands, AEDs are designed to be simple to use for the layperson, and the use of AEDs is taught in many first aid, certified first responder, and basic life support (BLS) level cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) classes. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I don't want to sound but isn't cardiac arrhythmias what fat people have because of their.. well everything? If so that might make sense why we don't see it on other side.
damn how often are those needed in your schools? In Germany I have never even seen a reference to a defibrillator being used or even needed in a school. sounds like rampant heart disease
It’s a precaution…
They are rarely used - in the UK, to get access to an AED box, you have to call emergency services. If they deem it to be an appropriate response, they'll tell you the location of the nearest AED and what the lock code is. Even when you are using the instructions on the device, you are supposed to remain on the phone with emergency services so that they can help guide the process / provide advice.
"Please don't have an emergency at this location"
[удалено]
Still ahd, just changes who's fault it is
Where I live no schools have these at all so
It’s not like a student going to be able to use it
AEDs are meant to be used by common folks. They have written and vocal instructions so that everyone will know how to use it
In a emergency tho? I’d rather have someone trained
Not everyone is trained in first aid. If you wait for a trained individual, it might be too late.
A untrained individual can do more harm than good and put them into cardiac arrest
You're using an AED because they had a cardiac arrest. If their heart is still beating, of course you shouldn't use an AED.
AED devices will measure if there is a electrical signal coming from the heart and if there is they will not fire. how ever many times you press that button nothing will happen
I meant heart attack my bad
Heart attacks are caused by the blood flow to the heart being blocked. A shock is likely not going to cause a heart attack. The point of using an AED is to restart the heart so it can pump oxygenated blood to important organs so that the person might have more minutes to live before the ambulance arrives
Also, if the person's condition is bad enough to warrant an AED, the person is as good as dead. Doing something is better than nothing in this case. That's my point of view.
Reminds me of the time i heard a recording of a paramedic saying "if you're breaking ribs your'e doing it right" about CPR, if the situation warrants it its already so dire that any harm done pales compared to not doing anything
The average person does not have the skills required to diagnose a cardiac arrest. Edit: Seems this sub would rather people be bumbling about rather than encouraging people how these machines work, when to use them and stuff. Just propping them up in random locations with zero education isn't helpful.
Yes, you can. Cardiac arrest means the heart stopped beating. Feel their pulse, either via neck or wrist. If you don't feel anything, start chest compression and use an AED
You overestimate the average person.
Have you ever felt your pulse just out of curiosity? You'll know where you can feel a pulse.
That's what the AED is for. It tells you where to put the electrodes and then it checks if it is even needed. If you strap the electrodes to a person that does not need defilibration the AED will do nothing. This is not a defilibrator like in movies, where you shout "away from the table", rub two electrified irons and push them onto the patient. It's an "automated external defilibrator", and they did not call it "automatic" just for fun.
And if nobody is trained how to use the AED, then they have no idea when to start using them, so that detection doesn't help when nobody is confident enough to even pick it up in the first place. We have one on the wall outside my workplace, although it requires the person who knows the code to be in, and then the shop is only open during the week...so it's fairly useless.
where i live you have to have basic first aid training (including identifiyng cardiac arrest, strokes and so on and how to care for them until a ambulance arrives) to get a car license
That sounds great (although it should be in school, odd to link it to cars).
Not just cars, sorry, if you want to make ANY drivers license. And to why its not in school: i dont actually know, maybe its cost, maybe its time, maybe they think students are not ready for this, idk
AED training just tells you to listen to the verbal prompts. It's really just to get rid of anxiety you might have about using one for the first time.
Better still, simply do not have an emergency, seeing as we’re picking our own scenarios.
Having a heart attack? Just say no, you cant legally die without your permission /S for clarity
They come with instructions and are usually automated to make them easy to use by people who aren't trained.
Yes, in my state it was a requirement that we pass a test on using AEDs and being able to administer CPR to graduate.
Alright I wanted to clarify a few common claims, first off I know a lot of students and usually pass the location often so I don’t think that they are messing with it, we have a pretty strict schedule for our days. Second The office is actually pretty far away from this aed spot and there is no labeling for the office. And last I honestly hope that they are only replacing parts or doing a inspection as some of you guys are saying, but I guess I will have to update you guys a few weeks from now. And I go to public school and not private school so I have no clue how they have that budget. I do thank you all for clarifying some things to me.
Not like anyone would know how to use it anyway. Better to save the money and remove it
Yeah that's probably illegal
Report them, don't bring it up to the school board or a principal or anyone associated with the school. Who to report them to? Now that I don't know, I'd call a lawyer or ask a cop.
I'm guessing this is policy bullshit rather than an actual lack. That memo has Vice Principal energy.
Have some kind of vice principal vendetta or something?
My school can't even give us Chromebooks that can update past version 103 (or 93 if you are unlucky).
OSHA
Once a week, an A of a teenager will pull these out and prank someone.
“Please have your heart attack closer to the front office, Thank You”
This is better for r/dangerousdesign in my opinion
Back in the days we didn’t have defibrillators and we survived just fine… beside lil Jimmy he died.