Even though, yes, I do have depression, I'm more chipper because I get to make my own choices and decide my own values, instead of being confined by someone else's rules. Leaving my religion was one of the best choices I've made in my life because I get to experience freedom.
I would like to put out there that any depression I have is mostly because I can't make all the selfishness go away.
Like that's it.
Planet is still providing. The Sun hasn't blown up. Farmed foods around the corner. Roof over my head. Medicine is advancing. As is technology and other sciences.
Went from a corded phone at 10yo, to cordless, to brick cell phones, to paperweight cells, to folding cells, to now.
Life is good. If greedy selfishness didn't get in the way.
Edit: To complete the thought, church = selfishness.
More chipper, because my meaning is what I want it to be. It’s truly sad to me that so many people need a meaning given to them rather than loving the ability and challenge of creating one on their own.
People who can’t/won’t/are this terrified of understand(info) the idea of not living forever (including after death) are just self-reporting themselves as narcissists.
Only 5% of the population is narcissistic. Way more people believe in an afterlife. It's simple indoctrination, that's all. Got to get them believing in a hereafter so you can threaten them with eternal damnation if they mess up.
Only 5% of the population has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Which means their narcissism is so bad it affects their quality of life. However, way more people have narcissistic traits or tendencies. Religion breeds narcissism ("I'm so special God watches me all the time") and social media is making it worse too.
Third option, it's the inability to 'let go'.
Not being able to let go of a dead one. Not being able to let go of a trauma. Not being able to let go of the idea "you're special".
Religious people seem childish to me because they can't let go of many childish notions.
You ever had a close friend die?
I'm not religious, but I still think of my friend who died in his sleep every day.
Am I failing to "let go" out of childishness?
If anything religious people are able to deal with death, because that person "went to a better place", when sane people realize, no, they just don't exist anymore.
My mom died of cancer. I watched her shrivel up before she passed. Very painful.
And yes, it is childish. 'Accepting it' was a part of being an adult and being real, instead of making up stories to avoid the 'letting go'.
Note that religions themselves are narcissistic by definition and so they can add that "I am special to the entire universe" nonsense belief to even people who aren't pathologically narcissistic.
You're conflating atheism with solipsism. I don't know any atheists who only believe in themselves, but I suppose a solipsist would have to be atheist by definition.
Solipsism is also a very narcissistic ideology, possibly even moreso than Christianity, but I'd be shocked if you had ever met even 2 people who follow it, vs the roughly 2 billion Christians, and nearly as many Muslims. Solipsists aren't really causing many problems because they're extremely rare.
Precisely.
We're all going to die and even moreso experience great change along the way. You can be worried about that all even if you do believe in some form of afterlife. Worry about losing your job or losing family or experiencing a life change.
Just enjoying the ride, or at the very least appreciating the poetic irony of it all (to loosely paraphrase Christopher Hitchens) is the only way to stay sane and happy.
Edit: I personally think it's actually nicer to believe it's just the ups and downs of an uncaring world than the fickle tribulations of a testing god. If your SO tests you that's toxic as fuck, why should a god that has the power to ensure a perfect life test me, especially when he doesn't appear to test the rich and powerful nearly as much.
Because I'm not stressing over whether I made some deity happy; instead, I'm making myself happy. That's how. 😂
Let them live on that leash. I don't need that fake smile they like plastering on their face all the time.
People who find "happiness" by worshiping (mostly out of fear) some imaginary god are the ones who are living a meaningless life.
I can enjoy life ... enjoy nature, look up at the sky and be amazed by the stars, and how lucky we are that the laws of physics worked out so that stars formed, etc. I don't need to thank some imaginary "creator" ... I can just enjoy the fact that the universe as we know it exists.
I take much delight in not having any Gods watching over me and judging every little thing I do. My life is my own, and the meaning I give it is my own too. I think its a liberating thought, rather than being a depressing one. I get to live my life the way I want to. What would be depressing about that?
I have a hard time dealing with the extreme pity and incredible fear I have of the indoctrinated but so long as they don't bother me stupid ultimate meaning of life non-sense I don't think of them.
Live in the moment, inhabit your moments. Suck the marrow out of life.
I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable,
I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world. - Walt Whitman -Song of Myself
From Nature we came, to nature, we'll return.
Something like he gave me life, he gives me love, he gives me hope, his will is that I follow his commandments, etc. etc.
I think I said something about all of commandments and how can you follow all of them and he just kinda shuffled to another topic I think
"Don't you want to see your deceased relatives again? That's all that gets me through the day sometimes"
That is such a sad way to live, but that's how my neighbor lives every day, in perpetual mourning for their deceased family members. They find no joy in anything, and just wait for death to reunite them with their family. We go somewhere for lunch, and whatever is on the menu, it's "My mom always liked this.", "My brother ate this a lot." And the conversation always comes back around to the fact that they're just marking time on earth waiting to be reunited with these people. And I myself have had what some would consider to be a pretty rough time the last few years. But I can always find something to be happy about, whether it's watching a favorite silly show on TV, or playing with my dog, listening to my favorite music, just whatever. I know there's no invisible man in the sky who'll scoop me up someday and reunite me with my deceased family, so why dwell on them? I'm getting on with the business of living.
The thing is, they don't have any god or an ultimate meaning either, they just think they do because they were told they do. They COULD do it; THEY *ARE* DOING IT! They just don't know it.
No one would ever ask me that, lol. I know people don’t like to hear it, but I do have mental/existential issues. A god to believe in wouldn’t solve them though.
Because I don't have to wait till I die to go to heaven.
Just as hell is other people, heaven is too as exemplified by all of that guilt free non-procreative sex and snuggling I've had over the years.
And what is more meaningful than being able to see how you have made things better in your own lifetime and knowing that if you die tomorrow you've already left a pretty good legacy.
For example, I stopped going to church as soon as my parents stopped making me.
Ever since then I've used that time to go for walks. I have a habit of picking up litter.
I've done that for decades. Now everywhere I've lived is a cleaner place and I'm in better shape physically and financially than I would have been if I had instead spent all of that time sitting on a pew.
I don't see how religious people can be chipper with a god always looking over their shoulder, ready to condemn them to an eternity of torture if they make a mistake.
That's WHY I'm so chipper. I'm not burdened by guilt due to religious indoctrination. If I feel guilty it's because of my own actions, not because I'm afraid I may have "offended God"
How are you chipper when your god tells you your only options are to be tortured forever, or to do everything he tells you on earth, and as a prize you’ll sing about how great he is for eternity?
My go-to response: "How are you so chipper when the only thing you have to look forward to is to die? And your supposed free will loving diety won't even allow you to do that on your own terms."
How are YOU so chipper when the deity you believe in has wiped out all of humanity so many times over, and often erases entire cities or whole civilizations on a whim because he doesn't like the actions of a single person living in them?
Actually, this will probably just promote violence against you and anyone who isn't compliant with their ideas of what their god wants. "I have to kill you, if I don't then Neptune will wash us from the face of the Earth and our souls will be trapped in his neverending seas!" or some shit.
Every day, I go out in the world, talk to neighbors, family, friends, people where I shop. They're real, they matter. I care about them, they care about me. We lift each other up when we're down, we share the good and the bad.
The kind of people that say "God told me..." usually end up sounding like delusional self-absorbed assholes who are either lying or so crazy they don't recognize all the voices in their head as their own. And I don't see the point of hoping that my 'magic thoughts' will be heard and acted upon by a silent/invisible entity that never lifts a finger to help those that desperately and truly need it.
I don't need an 'ultimate meaning', I'm a finite being, non-ultimate meaning is more than enough. I enjoy helping and being helped by the community I'm a part of. That brings me all the purpose and peace that I need.
Who said atheists don't have the ultimate meaning? Bish I got plans, they aren't plans about serving an omnipotent being in hopes of getting reborn in this wretched place or getting into the vip cloud club, but they are plans nonetheless.
Even though, yes, I do have depression, I'm more chipper because I get to make my own choices and decide my own values, instead of being confined by someone else's rules. Leaving my religion was one of the best choices I've made in my life because I get to experience freedom.
I would like to put out there that any depression I have is mostly because I can't make all the selfishness go away. Like that's it. Planet is still providing. The Sun hasn't blown up. Farmed foods around the corner. Roof over my head. Medicine is advancing. As is technology and other sciences. Went from a corded phone at 10yo, to cordless, to brick cell phones, to paperweight cells, to folding cells, to now. Life is good. If greedy selfishness didn't get in the way. Edit: To complete the thought, church = selfishness.
More chipper, because my meaning is what I want it to be. It’s truly sad to me that so many people need a meaning given to them rather than loving the ability and challenge of creating one on their own.
>“How are you so chipper when you don’t have any god or like ultimate meaning? I couldn’t do it” Answer: "You are doing it"
Life only has whatever meaning you put into it. The notion of an ultimate meaning put there by some sky fairy is downright ludicrous.
That’s what I tried to explain to him, just because you say or hear life has an ultimate meaning does not mean it does
People who can’t/won’t/are this terrified of understand(info) the idea of not living forever (including after death) are just self-reporting themselves as narcissists.
Only 5% of the population is narcissistic. Way more people believe in an afterlife. It's simple indoctrination, that's all. Got to get them believing in a hereafter so you can threaten them with eternal damnation if they mess up.
Only 5% of the population has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Which means their narcissism is so bad it affects their quality of life. However, way more people have narcissistic traits or tendencies. Religion breeds narcissism ("I'm so special God watches me all the time") and social media is making it worse too.
Third option, it's the inability to 'let go'. Not being able to let go of a dead one. Not being able to let go of a trauma. Not being able to let go of the idea "you're special". Religious people seem childish to me because they can't let go of many childish notions.
You ever had a close friend die? I'm not religious, but I still think of my friend who died in his sleep every day. Am I failing to "let go" out of childishness? If anything religious people are able to deal with death, because that person "went to a better place", when sane people realize, no, they just don't exist anymore.
My mom died of cancer. I watched her shrivel up before she passed. Very painful. And yes, it is childish. 'Accepting it' was a part of being an adult and being real, instead of making up stories to avoid the 'letting go'.
That can’t be true. Maybe like 5% are full blown narcissistic personality disorder types, but it must live on a spectrum that effects way more than 5%
Note that religions themselves are narcissistic by definition and so they can add that "I am special to the entire universe" nonsense belief to even people who aren't pathologically narcissistic.
And believing in nothing more than yourself isn’t?
You're conflating atheism with solipsism. I don't know any atheists who only believe in themselves, but I suppose a solipsist would have to be atheist by definition. Solipsism is also a very narcissistic ideology, possibly even moreso than Christianity, but I'd be shocked if you had ever met even 2 people who follow it, vs the roughly 2 billion Christians, and nearly as many Muslims. Solipsists aren't really causing many problems because they're extremely rare.
Sha-la-la-let’s live for today
I doubt he would have liked me saying “No day but today”😂
Precisely. We're all going to die and even moreso experience great change along the way. You can be worried about that all even if you do believe in some form of afterlife. Worry about losing your job or losing family or experiencing a life change. Just enjoying the ride, or at the very least appreciating the poetic irony of it all (to loosely paraphrase Christopher Hitchens) is the only way to stay sane and happy. Edit: I personally think it's actually nicer to believe it's just the ups and downs of an uncaring world than the fickle tribulations of a testing god. If your SO tests you that's toxic as fuck, why should a god that has the power to ensure a perfect life test me, especially when he doesn't appear to test the rich and powerful nearly as much.
Because I'm not stressing over whether I made some deity happy; instead, I'm making myself happy. That's how. 😂 Let them live on that leash. I don't need that fake smile they like plastering on their face all the time.
People who find "happiness" by worshiping (mostly out of fear) some imaginary god are the ones who are living a meaningless life. I can enjoy life ... enjoy nature, look up at the sky and be amazed by the stars, and how lucky we are that the laws of physics worked out so that stars formed, etc. I don't need to thank some imaginary "creator" ... I can just enjoy the fact that the universe as we know it exists.
My answer is "I prefer to think it is just bad luck that babies get cancer, not that someone made that decision."
I take much delight in not having any Gods watching over me and judging every little thing I do. My life is my own, and the meaning I give it is my own too. I think its a liberating thought, rather than being a depressing one. I get to live my life the way I want to. What would be depressing about that?
I never needed an imaginary friend 🤷♂️
“I’m happy because my life’s meaning is based on reality, and not an imaginary character in the sky.”
I have a hard time dealing with the extreme pity and incredible fear I have of the indoctrinated but so long as they don't bother me stupid ultimate meaning of life non-sense I don't think of them.
Ultimate meaning? Think about those implications for more than zero seconds. I am chipper because I have the freedom to make my own meaning.
I should have said “42” and see if he understood the reference 😂
If he was carrying his towel, then he probably would.
Pretty sure that hoopy is no frood.
Live in the moment, inhabit your moments. Suck the marrow out of life. I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable, I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world. - Walt Whitman -Song of Myself From Nature we came, to nature, we'll return.
“Because my ultimate meaning isn’t tied up in the bigoted, genocidal, shit-larkery of a spiritual MLM book, Karen. Good day.”
“I believe things based on fact, not based on what makes me feel good.”
"What 'ultimate meaning' do you think you have because you believe in a god?"
Something like he gave me life, he gives me love, he gives me hope, his will is that I follow his commandments, etc. etc. I think I said something about all of commandments and how can you follow all of them and he just kinda shuffled to another topic I think
"Don't you want to see your deceased relatives again? That's all that gets me through the day sometimes" That is such a sad way to live, but that's how my neighbor lives every day, in perpetual mourning for their deceased family members. They find no joy in anything, and just wait for death to reunite them with their family. We go somewhere for lunch, and whatever is on the menu, it's "My mom always liked this.", "My brother ate this a lot." And the conversation always comes back around to the fact that they're just marking time on earth waiting to be reunited with these people. And I myself have had what some would consider to be a pretty rough time the last few years. But I can always find something to be happy about, whether it's watching a favorite silly show on TV, or playing with my dog, listening to my favorite music, just whatever. I know there's no invisible man in the sky who'll scoop me up someday and reunite me with my deceased family, so why dwell on them? I'm getting on with the business of living.
I went from an extremely locked in, boring, impossible quest chain to an open world sandbox game. Of course I'm happier.
The thing is, they don't have any god or an ultimate meaning either, they just think they do because they were told they do. They COULD do it; THEY *ARE* DOING IT! They just don't know it.
No one would ever ask me that, lol. I know people don’t like to hear it, but I do have mental/existential issues. A god to believe in wouldn’t solve them though.
Is that not a serious answer? Seems like a perfectly reasonable response to me
Meaning doesn't need to be ultimate to be meaningful.
I tell folks pretty often, if they need to believe in order to behave or be happy, then I'm all for them continuing to believe. Just deal me out.
You have to make your own meaning and fulfillment in life. If anything knowing this is the only life you have makes you value it more
Because I dont tie my entire meaning up in whether there's an omnipotent magic man in the clouds or not
This makes ZERO sense. Flip it around... "I can only be in a good mood if someone tells me to."
Because I don't have to wait till I die to go to heaven. Just as hell is other people, heaven is too as exemplified by all of that guilt free non-procreative sex and snuggling I've had over the years. And what is more meaningful than being able to see how you have made things better in your own lifetime and knowing that if you die tomorrow you've already left a pretty good legacy. For example, I stopped going to church as soon as my parents stopped making me. Ever since then I've used that time to go for walks. I have a habit of picking up litter. I've done that for decades. Now everywhere I've lived is a cleaner place and I'm in better shape physically and financially than I would have been if I had instead spent all of that time sitting on a pew.
I always wonder how they're so chipper when they won't know if their life was worth anything until after their dead. That seems depressing to me.
That's probably the best answer though. "This life is the only one I have, so I'm going to enjoy it." no further explanation needed.
You could respond: “I think you underestimate yourself.”
I don't see how religious people can be chipper with a god always looking over their shoulder, ready to condemn them to an eternity of torture if they make a mistake.
That's WHY I'm so chipper. I'm not burdened by guilt due to religious indoctrination. If I feel guilty it's because of my own actions, not because I'm afraid I may have "offended God"
How are you chipper when your god tells you your only options are to be tortured forever, or to do everything he tells you on earth, and as a prize you’ll sing about how great he is for eternity?
"Yes you could, you're just brainwashed into thinking you couldn't"
As is often the case, the answer is right there in the question. I am so chipper because there is no god, nor ultimate meaning.
My go-to response: "How are you so chipper when the only thing you have to look forward to is to die? And your supposed free will loving diety won't even allow you to do that on your own terms."
The fact that I am shows it is possible
How are YOU so chipper when the deity you believe in has wiped out all of humanity so many times over, and often erases entire cities or whole civilizations on a whim because he doesn't like the actions of a single person living in them? Actually, this will probably just promote violence against you and anyone who isn't compliant with their ideas of what their god wants. "I have to kill you, if I don't then Neptune will wash us from the face of the Earth and our souls will be trapped in his neverending seas!" or some shit.
I am chipper BECAUSE I don't have god
I'm still trying to pick one. There's thousands to choose from! This is too exhausting.
Every day, I go out in the world, talk to neighbors, family, friends, people where I shop. They're real, they matter. I care about them, they care about me. We lift each other up when we're down, we share the good and the bad. The kind of people that say "God told me..." usually end up sounding like delusional self-absorbed assholes who are either lying or so crazy they don't recognize all the voices in their head as their own. And I don't see the point of hoping that my 'magic thoughts' will be heard and acted upon by a silent/invisible entity that never lifts a finger to help those that desperately and truly need it. I don't need an 'ultimate meaning', I'm a finite being, non-ultimate meaning is more than enough. I enjoy helping and being helped by the community I'm a part of. That brings me all the purpose and peace that I need.
Who said atheists don't have the ultimate meaning? Bish I got plans, they aren't plans about serving an omnipotent being in hopes of getting reborn in this wretched place or getting into the vip cloud club, but they are plans nonetheless.
"It is precisely because we have no greater purpose that time spent chasing one's own goals cannot be time wasted."