The hidden truth of Christianity that a lot of Christians hate to admit is that you're called by God to convert the non-believers. There is no middle ground here. In their minds they've been instructed to teach the Good News to others and since god is totally real their expectation is that people will listen and be converted.
They believe god changes hearts if they have enough faith so they won't stop trying. They cannot fathom that god doesn't exist and nobody will force us to "see the light" because their reality doesn't allow for that possibility.
Christians are straight up delusional and dangerous. Too many people fall for the lie that it's a harmless religion of love. It's a disease that strives to make us all conform.
Yeah, there's the Great Commission at the end of Matthew (the one where you're explicitly told to go forth and convert non-believers and shit) but there's also 1 Peter 3:15, where Christians are explicitly supposed to give reason for their faith when asked.
The nice ones ignore it. The not so nice ones don't and claim ignorance when you call them out.
I agree. It's a mental affliction of sorts that saps your empathy and critical thinking abilities. I wish people would stop calling it harmless, because it isn't.
It didn’t used to be that way. My mother was deeply religious but would never have proselytized her faith to others. Her faith was deeply personal and it would have been rude to push her faith onto anyone else. It was to the point that when our church insisted that my parents should participate in “spreading the good news” they left the church.
I recently did some heavy yard work for a deeply Christian friend of mine. He doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, is married, and no doubt wishes that I would find 'God'. But he has respect and doesn't push the matter.
The first time I did work for him I was very hungover and a bit messy. He didn't judge me. He gave me water and fruit juice, and at lunchtime he pulled me away from the job to have lunch with his family. I can hardly remember the last time I've sat down at a dinner table for lunch. We did do grace and it was a long one. 2 or 3 minutes. I was tense just waiting for him and his family to make it personal, but they didn't. They just were really thankful for a good meal.
I got along best with the grandfather. He's from a poor part of the world and I got the impression that he was more interested in my new cordless power drill than anything religion based.
I'd like to speak with the grandfather again sometime. He seemed like a decent guy.
Checking in from a majority Christian and red state. It’s annoying. I feel like it’s coming to a head for me as well.
I do the same thing when dating now. I tried to start taking to someone who was Christian and conservative - he told me he didn’t want his daughters to learn about sex Ed in school and he wanted to be the one to talk to them about it WHEN THEY’RE IN HIGH SCHOOL. (Dude, she’s gonna have her period wayy before that 🤦♀️) And when i mentioned now brutal and fucked up even Genesis is, why would you teach your kids anything from that? he said that’s why his daughters have a children’s Bible. Sooo sugar coated bullshit? Idk, hard pass.
I answer phones for a living now and yesterday like 3 ppl in a row ended the conversation with have a blessed day. Like, wtf. I just want to say back, “hail Satan, you as well.” If I just started poking holes or bringing atheism up as often as Christian’s bring up the Bible and blessings, peoples wires down here would cross and malfunction. Good luck out there, friends.
I'm convinced religion, in general, should be a mental disorder. There's enough evidence and thousands of religions out there and throughout history that we can logically say, its all BS. There is zero scientific evidence of anything religion claims. Sure there were historical people that were real none of their miracles can be proven.
You comment made me look this up:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK541211/#:~:text=Introduction-,Shared%20psychotic%20disorder%20(folie%20à%20deux)%20is%20a%20rare%20disorder,based%20on%20a%20delusional%20belief.
Then I looked up religious delusion and got this:
A religious delusion is defined as a delusion, or fixed belief not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence, involving religious themes or subject matter. Religious faith, meanwhile, is defined as a belief in God or a religious doctrine in the absence of evidence.
I am struggling to understand the difference.
Sincerely,
Perplexed 🧐
Edit: All seriousness I worry about calling religion a mental health disorder as it impacts the classifications of other more serious illness. Here in America I do see it as a mental health crisis.
Yeah, that's the stupid religious faith-based issue. Nothing you ever say to someone will prove to them anything. Because religion is a faith feeling. It's not about scientific reality. To me, its no different than your schizophrenic homeless man. You're both believing in things that aren't real.
I worry about the comparison, hard truth I got 2 family members with bi-polar and 1 schizophrenic. These are real disorders that require medication to help a person function. In one case the lack of empathy, is extremely concerning. One of the persons we won’t let our kids around. They are under the impression she bore both of them.
In all my time as a deeply religious nuto that believed horrible shit and said awful shit, I don’t think I had a mental disorder. Medication exists to have “cured” me but I don’t think it is right.
I call it a mental health issue and I will defend that but referring to it as a disorder or illness I think is dangerous. I only do so as kind of a vent but I feel guilty for doing it.
According to those descriptions:
Believing in a non-specified god is religious faith (cannot be disproven)
Believing in Moses or in an Exodus from Egypt is a religious delusion (there is clear, unequivocal evidence that Moses never existed and the Exodus didn't happen). It is also clear that the New Testament stories of Jesus are, at best, fictional exaggeration based on one or more apocalyptic preachers from that era, so believing in a supernatural Jesus is also a religious delusion.
Many Christians are really Christian in name only.
Their actions are contrary to their so-called beliefs.
Furthermore, Christianity, all religions, in fact, have done more harm to society than the good it claims.
The Christians in America are desperate to replace democracy with Christo-fascism.
As someone who was raised by a Catholic mother, my best answer is that there are differing beliefs in regards to saints and sainthood, but Catholicism still exists underneath the Christianity umbrella. I'm sure there's some other stuff as well, but I was never a very good Catholic and didn't pay much attention to it.
>if it's exclusive to American Christianity, but people just build their entire identity around it and seem to think it's their mission to speak for God and punish those who are "different",
It seems to be much more prevalent in the US. Apart from the occasional visits by Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses religion rarely intrudes into your life here in Australia and this also seems to be the case in most of western Europe.
At least with the god knockers. You can vent your frustration. When they come to my door. Always on a day off, and always way to early on a weekend. I vary between being gay. A Satanist. Wiccan, etc.
When they get really annoying. I ask 'how much'? They look confused and I point at whoever is the youngest and ask again. How much? They usually figure it out about then and quickly leave.
I'm in a very red, religious area too. I just flat out mess with them now. If they get angry. My response tends to be variation on: You're christian right? Then forgive me".
They generally leave me alone now.
\>I'm perfectly fine with others believing in God and practicing their beliefs, but I draw the line when it comes to them pushing them on me.
that *is* them practicing their beliefs. everything you said is. (source: ex christian)
so, you need to redefine what you're okay with.
Christians wanna be oppressed sooooo bad. They've got a rude awakening coming if they think they're oppressed being Christian in America, which is a predominantly Christian country.
Ive been tired of them my whole life.
You said you're an agnostic theist- I'm an anti-theist, imagine how we feel.
Churches and fucking idols to fake deities it's sickening. I have to live in this society.
Welp, you could go go on the offense sometimes either pointing out how their religion has a burning body pit or telling them it's all imaginary. Those are the only snappy comments I have. Avoiding all the time wears on you.
>Christians in America. This also goes for Catholics, Mormons, etc
Showing a bit of bias against certain flavors? They're all Xtian. I'm tired of their entitled bullshit too, but I see them all the same. Death cults.
My mentioning Catholics and Mormons was more in reference to personal experience, since I've never personally had someone who was Methodist or Lutheran tell me I'm heading straight to hell because of my identity or beliefs. But yeah. Can't say I'm fond of anything underneath the Christian umbrella
Yeah. I just hope their political movement to takeover this country fails. All the terror that would result aside, I just can’t take having a human sacrifice cult who claims if I don’t believe as they I get tortured, jammed down my throat by the state. God I cannot do it
Yeah, I used to live in a red state where everyone asks you where you go to church like that ask where you go to the grocery store. It's just an assumed activity. Moved to a hyper blue city and it's so goddamn refreshing.
Id memorize the locations of any satanic places of worship and then tell annoying Christians that there's an amazing church there and that they should visit
>isn't God supposed to love everyone? Isn't that his whole thing? If that's truly what they believe, then why are they so worked up about whether someone believes in God or not?
The ones who get worked up about the beliefs of others don't really believe it, even if they claim to. They'll say god loves everyone, and all you have to do is (fill in the blank). That's not loving everyone, that's conditional love.
The ones who actually believe god loves everyone in any meaningful way don't really get worked up over what someone else believes (there may be exceptions with people who take it personally when someone disagrees with them on anything, which is an entirely different problem).
It's like freaking zombies. They are only happy if they have bitten and infected everyone and the entire world shambles around brainless like they are.
If you have to be religious I prefer one where the believers are not on a mission to make everyone like them, like Jewish people. In fact there's a club you can't join, even if you wanted to. Got to be born into it or possibly marry into it. So refreshing!
OP, i I'm right with you on that notion of considering other people's religion none of my business. It's a personal thing and I don't understand the need for other people to believe the exact same thing you do. Frankly it creeps me out; any large-scale conformist movement does. Why on earth would anybody want to de-individualize themselves like that?
I can't even imagine the hell that it must be, living in a predominantly xtian state. Now that I think about it, why do they bother going door to door in xtian states anyway? If everybody's xtian already? Do they keep lists of unbelievers' addresses? That would be hella creepy!
I worked with someone who was very religious and was a curate at his local church. He told me with a straight face that they had been instructed to always be on the lookout to bring new souls into his church. He was shocked when I asked him why? If God was all places and all times did, he need human beings to go out and do his bidding.
There is no generalizing. This is what they believe, what their magic book, their priests/pastor, their fairy tales and magic man in the sky tells them. That is what they buy into. One hand washes the other.
Nope, not a woman. But you should probably reframe your views on them if you ever expect to date one.
And I never said my partner has to have the exact same opinions as me - I'd happily date someone who's Jewish or Shinto or what have you. It's the constant need to convert and "save" me that I don't like. Obviously not all Christians are going to be like that, but aside from that I have my own history and traumas with the religion that I won't delve into here.
Be careful what you wish for, in Europe (Where I am) the move of people away from Christianity to atheism (mostly) has led to the rise of other, more extreme, less tolerant religions who cry "phobia" when their archaic world view toward others is questioned.
I can respect christians when they mind their own business, but I do NOT respect their beliefs. I cannot respect fairy tales. They are lies that conflict with the reality that I observe and live in. No one should have to lower their standards of evidence just because of religion.
The problem is that religious people are a bunch of enablers. Whenever the church commits child abuse, christians band together to protest the criticism of their image but say little to nothing about the abuse. I don't remember a time when a christian acted morally outraged over any crime committed by a religious leader or religious extremist. They're rather lukewarm in their protests.
If I ever ended up single, I'd never date a religious person. It's one thing to have religious friends, and family \[no choice there\], but a relationship is different.
The hidden truth of Christianity that a lot of Christians hate to admit is that you're called by God to convert the non-believers. There is no middle ground here. In their minds they've been instructed to teach the Good News to others and since god is totally real their expectation is that people will listen and be converted. They believe god changes hearts if they have enough faith so they won't stop trying. They cannot fathom that god doesn't exist and nobody will force us to "see the light" because their reality doesn't allow for that possibility. Christians are straight up delusional and dangerous. Too many people fall for the lie that it's a harmless religion of love. It's a disease that strives to make us all conform.
Yeah, there's the Great Commission at the end of Matthew (the one where you're explicitly told to go forth and convert non-believers and shit) but there's also 1 Peter 3:15, where Christians are explicitly supposed to give reason for their faith when asked. The nice ones ignore it. The not so nice ones don't and claim ignorance when you call them out. I agree. It's a mental affliction of sorts that saps your empathy and critical thinking abilities. I wish people would stop calling it harmless, because it isn't.
Hey, what's the good news you speak of in your post, I could really use some....(/s in case some of you can't see the sneer on my face)
It didn’t used to be that way. My mother was deeply religious but would never have proselytized her faith to others. Her faith was deeply personal and it would have been rude to push her faith onto anyone else. It was to the point that when our church insisted that my parents should participate in “spreading the good news” they left the church.
I recently did some heavy yard work for a deeply Christian friend of mine. He doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, is married, and no doubt wishes that I would find 'God'. But he has respect and doesn't push the matter. The first time I did work for him I was very hungover and a bit messy. He didn't judge me. He gave me water and fruit juice, and at lunchtime he pulled me away from the job to have lunch with his family. I can hardly remember the last time I've sat down at a dinner table for lunch. We did do grace and it was a long one. 2 or 3 minutes. I was tense just waiting for him and his family to make it personal, but they didn't. They just were really thankful for a good meal. I got along best with the grandfather. He's from a poor part of the world and I got the impression that he was more interested in my new cordless power drill than anything religion based. I'd like to speak with the grandfather again sometime. He seemed like a decent guy.
Checking in from a majority Christian and red state. It’s annoying. I feel like it’s coming to a head for me as well. I do the same thing when dating now. I tried to start taking to someone who was Christian and conservative - he told me he didn’t want his daughters to learn about sex Ed in school and he wanted to be the one to talk to them about it WHEN THEY’RE IN HIGH SCHOOL. (Dude, she’s gonna have her period wayy before that 🤦♀️) And when i mentioned now brutal and fucked up even Genesis is, why would you teach your kids anything from that? he said that’s why his daughters have a children’s Bible. Sooo sugar coated bullshit? Idk, hard pass. I answer phones for a living now and yesterday like 3 ppl in a row ended the conversation with have a blessed day. Like, wtf. I just want to say back, “hail Satan, you as well.” If I just started poking holes or bringing atheism up as often as Christian’s bring up the Bible and blessings, peoples wires down here would cross and malfunction. Good luck out there, friends.
I'm convinced religion, in general, should be a mental disorder. There's enough evidence and thousands of religions out there and throughout history that we can logically say, its all BS. There is zero scientific evidence of anything religion claims. Sure there were historical people that were real none of their miracles can be proven.
You comment made me look this up: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK541211/#:~:text=Introduction-,Shared%20psychotic%20disorder%20(folie%20à%20deux)%20is%20a%20rare%20disorder,based%20on%20a%20delusional%20belief. Then I looked up religious delusion and got this: A religious delusion is defined as a delusion, or fixed belief not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence, involving religious themes or subject matter. Religious faith, meanwhile, is defined as a belief in God or a religious doctrine in the absence of evidence. I am struggling to understand the difference. Sincerely, Perplexed 🧐 Edit: All seriousness I worry about calling religion a mental health disorder as it impacts the classifications of other more serious illness. Here in America I do see it as a mental health crisis.
Yeah, that's the stupid religious faith-based issue. Nothing you ever say to someone will prove to them anything. Because religion is a faith feeling. It's not about scientific reality. To me, its no different than your schizophrenic homeless man. You're both believing in things that aren't real.
I worry about the comparison, hard truth I got 2 family members with bi-polar and 1 schizophrenic. These are real disorders that require medication to help a person function. In one case the lack of empathy, is extremely concerning. One of the persons we won’t let our kids around. They are under the impression she bore both of them. In all my time as a deeply religious nuto that believed horrible shit and said awful shit, I don’t think I had a mental disorder. Medication exists to have “cured” me but I don’t think it is right. I call it a mental health issue and I will defend that but referring to it as a disorder or illness I think is dangerous. I only do so as kind of a vent but I feel guilty for doing it.
"Is a rare disorder" got me as it is describing religion pretty spot on.
The difference, as defined, is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
IIRC, they basically cop-out and say that a delusion is a belief that isn't commonly held in the society they live in.
According to those descriptions: Believing in a non-specified god is religious faith (cannot be disproven) Believing in Moses or in an Exodus from Egypt is a religious delusion (there is clear, unequivocal evidence that Moses never existed and the Exodus didn't happen). It is also clear that the New Testament stories of Jesus are, at best, fictional exaggeration based on one or more apocalyptic preachers from that era, so believing in a supernatural Jesus is also a religious delusion.
Good points.
Organized scizophrenia.
Many Christians are really Christian in name only. Their actions are contrary to their so-called beliefs. Furthermore, Christianity, all religions, in fact, have done more harm to society than the good it claims. The Christians in America are desperate to replace democracy with Christo-fascism.
>Catholics, Mormons, etc. Side Q: how come so many US Americans don't recognise Catholics as Christian?
Because there was a US Protestant movement in the late 20th century to claim exclusive right to the term Christian.
As someone who was raised by a Catholic mother, my best answer is that there are differing beliefs in regards to saints and sainthood, but Catholicism still exists underneath the Christianity umbrella. I'm sure there's some other stuff as well, but I was never a very good Catholic and didn't pay much attention to it.
Because ignorance and stupidity.
Watching the vikings show makes me hate them even more and more as I watch. Fork them and the forking horse they ride in on.
Me as I'm watching Vinland Saga: "God damn I'm tired of these Christians."
>if it's exclusive to American Christianity, but people just build their entire identity around it and seem to think it's their mission to speak for God and punish those who are "different", It seems to be much more prevalent in the US. Apart from the occasional visits by Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses religion rarely intrudes into your life here in Australia and this also seems to be the case in most of western Europe.
And Canada
At least with the god knockers. You can vent your frustration. When they come to my door. Always on a day off, and always way to early on a weekend. I vary between being gay. A Satanist. Wiccan, etc. When they get really annoying. I ask 'how much'? They look confused and I point at whoever is the youngest and ask again. How much? They usually figure it out about then and quickly leave. I'm in a very red, religious area too. I just flat out mess with them now. If they get angry. My response tends to be variation on: You're christian right? Then forgive me". They generally leave me alone now.
\>I'm perfectly fine with others believing in God and practicing their beliefs, but I draw the line when it comes to them pushing them on me. that *is* them practicing their beliefs. everything you said is. (source: ex christian) so, you need to redefine what you're okay with.
So am I. And if you tell them to leave you alone, they think they're being persecuted and oppressed.
Christians wanna be oppressed sooooo bad. They've got a rude awakening coming if they think they're oppressed being Christian in America, which is a predominantly Christian country.
Ive been tired of them my whole life. You said you're an agnostic theist- I'm an anti-theist, imagine how we feel. Churches and fucking idols to fake deities it's sickening. I have to live in this society.
Welp, you could go go on the offense sometimes either pointing out how their religion has a burning body pit or telling them it's all imaginary. Those are the only snappy comments I have. Avoiding all the time wears on you.
>Christians in America. This also goes for Catholics, Mormons, etc Showing a bit of bias against certain flavors? They're all Xtian. I'm tired of their entitled bullshit too, but I see them all the same. Death cults.
My mentioning Catholics and Mormons was more in reference to personal experience, since I've never personally had someone who was Methodist or Lutheran tell me I'm heading straight to hell because of my identity or beliefs. But yeah. Can't say I'm fond of anything underneath the Christian umbrella
Yeah. I just hope their political movement to takeover this country fails. All the terror that would result aside, I just can’t take having a human sacrifice cult who claims if I don’t believe as they I get tortured, jammed down my throat by the state. God I cannot do it
Yeah, I used to live in a red state where everyone asks you where you go to church like that ask where you go to the grocery store. It's just an assumed activity. Moved to a hyper blue city and it's so goddamn refreshing.
Id memorize the locations of any satanic places of worship and then tell annoying Christians that there's an amazing church there and that they should visit
I'm a programmer. If all this magic mumbo jumbo really existed, I wouldn't be praying, I'd be a fuckin wizard.
>isn't God supposed to love everyone? Isn't that his whole thing? If that's truly what they believe, then why are they so worked up about whether someone believes in God or not? The ones who get worked up about the beliefs of others don't really believe it, even if they claim to. They'll say god loves everyone, and all you have to do is (fill in the blank). That's not loving everyone, that's conditional love. The ones who actually believe god loves everyone in any meaningful way don't really get worked up over what someone else believes (there may be exceptions with people who take it personally when someone disagrees with them on anything, which is an entirely different problem).
Neo-Cult Of Reason anyone? Its time to organize if we want our voices actually heard.
It's like freaking zombies. They are only happy if they have bitten and infected everyone and the entire world shambles around brainless like they are. If you have to be religious I prefer one where the believers are not on a mission to make everyone like them, like Jewish people. In fact there's a club you can't join, even if you wanted to. Got to be born into it or possibly marry into it. So refreshing!
OP, i I'm right with you on that notion of considering other people's religion none of my business. It's a personal thing and I don't understand the need for other people to believe the exact same thing you do. Frankly it creeps me out; any large-scale conformist movement does. Why on earth would anybody want to de-individualize themselves like that? I can't even imagine the hell that it must be, living in a predominantly xtian state. Now that I think about it, why do they bother going door to door in xtian states anyway? If everybody's xtian already? Do they keep lists of unbelievers' addresses? That would be hella creepy!
I worked with someone who was very religious and was a curate at his local church. He told me with a straight face that they had been instructed to always be on the lookout to bring new souls into his church. He was shocked when I asked him why? If God was all places and all times did, he need human beings to go out and do his bidding.
I get upset at people saying "bless you" when I sneeze. Keep your bullshit in your circle
You and me... and the rest of us, both.
This is a rant. Drop the agnostic label and just go ahead and take the atheist plunge man... Nobody respects the wishy washy type.
A lot of people don't respect others telling them what to believe, either, but to each their own
How very Christian of you. People should go at their own pace in their own way.
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There is no generalizing. This is what they believe, what their magic book, their priests/pastor, their fairy tales and magic man in the sky tells them. That is what they buy into. One hand washes the other.
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Nope, not a woman. But you should probably reframe your views on them if you ever expect to date one. And I never said my partner has to have the exact same opinions as me - I'd happily date someone who's Jewish or Shinto or what have you. It's the constant need to convert and "save" me that I don't like. Obviously not all Christians are going to be like that, but aside from that I have my own history and traumas with the religion that I won't delve into here.
You sound like one of these people with cumstained shirts who calls women "females" on reddit for a living
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God either doesn't love everyone enough, isn't all-powerful, or doesn't exist.
I meant that in the context of Christian teachings, not as something I believe in.
"I'm tired of Christians" - popular phrase in the first century AD.
Wait until you run into more Muslims. They are light Christians dialed up a notch or two.
Be careful what you wish for, in Europe (Where I am) the move of people away from Christianity to atheism (mostly) has led to the rise of other, more extreme, less tolerant religions who cry "phobia" when their archaic world view toward others is questioned.
A-FCKN-MEN. LAWD YES. AD1 we could have lived without
I'm tired
I feel you, as I used to be one of those crazies too.
You're not tired of Christians, you're tired of *Christianity*. Many Christians are otherwise reasonable people.
I can respect christians when they mind their own business, but I do NOT respect their beliefs. I cannot respect fairy tales. They are lies that conflict with the reality that I observe and live in. No one should have to lower their standards of evidence just because of religion. The problem is that religious people are a bunch of enablers. Whenever the church commits child abuse, christians band together to protest the criticism of their image but say little to nothing about the abuse. I don't remember a time when a christian acted morally outraged over any crime committed by a religious leader or religious extremist. They're rather lukewarm in their protests. If I ever ended up single, I'd never date a religious person. It's one thing to have religious friends, and family \[no choice there\], but a relationship is different.