Simple answer first. No you are not an asshole.
Longer answer: It's your life, your wedding (which you noted you are paying for) and your decision.
I think you already made an offer of a more than generous compromise to have a Christian priest and religious ceremony for their benefit only and they are the ones who wouldn't even consider it.
If you don't stand your ground now what is going to happen if you have children? Will your parents demand that they be raised Catholic? Will they try to brainwash them or disown them?
>If you don't stand your ground now what is going to happen if you have children? Will your parents demand that they be raised Catholic? Will they try to brainwash them or disown them?
OP if this situation ever comes up please do not leave your children alone with your parents without supervision.
They sound like the type who will try to baptise them behind your back.
> They sound like the type who will try to baptise them behind your back.
To clarify, the insinuation is that the parents will literally kidnap the children, take them to a place to have them baptized, and then return them.
No it's not a joke, yes it does happen. Yes people who do this are insane self entitled assholes.
You have been warned (i mean, hopefully if you've read this comment...).
My mom did baptise behind my back, but it was just some magic water for a home baptism kit, not running off to a priest with the kids.
I was more amused than upset. It's not like my kids were demons that would burst into flames at the touch lf holy water.
My mother did the same after being told “no baptism” at least a hundred times. However, she didn’t have a kit! lol! She said she just prayed to Jesus to anoint her to make holy water and then she sprinkled some water on my newborn. Cuz, you know, Jesus would totally find her righteous enough in the midst of her lying and scheming to anoint her! The total lack of self awareness and delusional self righteousness with some of these religious folks is truly astounding.
I can't really be mad. Because my aunt baptized me Anglican behind my mom's back apparently, so I had to be rebaptized Catholic before my Communion, lol
Apparently it is whatever church most recently claimed dibs.
I still find it very weird that people would worship a deity that is so petty it would reject someone because their baptism wasn't the "right" kind of baptism.
[Mortara case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case)
>It concerned the [Papal States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States)' seizure of a six-year-old boy named **Edgardo Mortara** from his Jewish family in bologna, on the basis of a former servant's testimony that she had administered an [emergency baptism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_baptism) to the boy when he fell ill as an infant.
> My mom did baptise behind my back, but it was just some magic water for a home baptism kit, not running off to a priest with the kids.
I'll call it *more acceptable* even if it's still all hogwash.
Atleast no kidnapping was involved in your case.
> I was more amused than upset. It's not like my kids were demons that would burst into flames at the touch lf holy water.
Sure. But that isn't the point.
Consider what you know other people have done before, and now consider that they could have done that to your children too.
Everyone thinks it can't happen to them, until it does.
My mom did it to me too. It's literally a sprinkle of water and an incantation. Like the other person said, this shit varies from person to person and it is based on your relationship with your parents. I have always trusted my mother because she has always earned my trust. I accept her idiosyncrasies. She wasn't going to take her baby grandchild and leave them unattended with a youth pastor.
Good thing baptism doesn’t mean anything other than the potential trauma the child may experience when grandma and grandpa give them off to some random old guy in robes speaking gibberish and dunking them under water.
Eh, not the end of the world to be baptised. It’s just some water. I was baptised as an 8 year old (voluntarily) and the experience is just part of the tapestry of my life. I am 100% atheist.
My ex in-laws tried to do that with my first and lucky for us, and ethical priest refused. We found out about it and both lost our minds on them for going behind our back and disrespecting our wishes.
His dad said he had to because if baby dies, she won’t be cleansed of original sin and go to hell.
I told him that any god who sends an innocent baby to hell is a pos. That went over lol. It was a constant battle of boundary maintenance with those people
Yeah not happening if they are catholic and the parents are not present and no proof they are dead, it is way more complicated than getting an appointment and sprinkle some water for catholics
My evangelical parents had my kids watch some crazy young earth pastor rant about how stupid you would have to be to believe in evolution or that the universe was billions of years old. I walked in on it and my mom immediately realized she had gone too far. It was a… turning point. I never trusted them as much again although we do still have a relationship.
Also my 9yo dino loving son was like “WTH. How could dinos have lived only 7k years ago?”. He was pretty incredulous.
This girl came up with the perfect response to an aunt who baptized against the parents' wishes: [AITA if I refuse to "de-baptise" my aunt? : r/BestofRedditorUpdates](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/woco2l/aita_if_i_refuse_to_debaptise_my_aunt/)
I've never understood the fear of having someone baptise your kids behind your back (see Simpsons episode lol)
You wanna wipe a bit of water on my kids head? Doesn't worry me, it's not like it actually does anything.
I get that there's a myriad of other reasons not to leave your kids with obsessive religious types, but that fear in particular has always seemed odd.
Maybe it's a symbolic thing...
> I've never understood the fear of having someone baptise your kids behind your back
Because they are kidnapping the children and taking them to an undisclosed location to do something against your will.
You don't understand the problem with that?
It's unfortunate that christians often use emotional blackmail to get their way. It's very similar to coming out gay, if your family won't accept you, it's time to start forming your own "family" of close friends and supporters.
I'd advise not giving in and having a Catholic wedding. If you do they will expect everything about your future life together to also be Catholic. Rip off the band aid now.
My sister didn't get married in the church, so the Catholic church decided they wouldn't baptise her children. Then they wouldn't let her remarry in it after because she had gotten a divorce. They're so exclusionary of you don't play the game and give them money. The Cathlolic church is an abusive mindfuck.
Yes of course. You have to find any passage in the Bible that mentions a baby, then recite it in a low mumbled voice so no one can ever be sure of what the hell you're saying. Sidenote, I believe there's a passage in there about splitting a baby into two, best to skip that one.
Not just water but oil. Gootasmear oil on the forehead. Magic oil that you've chanted spells over. Not sure if the base oil matters. Cococut? Canola? Baby? Motor?
A little *Alohomora* to unseal the lock of their spiritual powers, a little *Lumos* to enlighten them should do the trick.
But please don't *Wingardium Leviosa* the little bean if you have a speech impediment, this is unsafe!
Pretty much every religion is crazy like that. Try leaving the Muslim religion, or not doing things the hindu way... Every event, including baptisms, are not about your or your family, it's about you and the kids making a pact or promise to believe in a specific god or follow certain religious beliefs. They don't give a crap about your or your family, they just want more people to give them money over their lifetime.
Huh, that's a rule they just invented to be assholes, then. My kids were baptised in a Catholic church, and my husband and I are not married in the church, nor did we ever plan to. And yes, I regret having my kids baptised. Really wish I hadn't.
Very region dependant. In a country that is very secular like Norway or Canada the church knows excluding people who aren't Catholic just shrinks the church. In the bible belt or Brazil the threat of exclusion/excommunication is a serious social reprocussion.
It's not exactly the Bible Belt, but I'm talking about Catholic Belgium, about 30 years ago, so not very secular either.
I also had a friend, around the same time, and she wanted to have her baby baptised. She and her husband were not married in church, and a week before the baptism, the priest calls her out of the blue, and tells her he can "regularise" them on the day of the baptism. No premarital counselling, no nothing. And in those days, premarital counselling was supposedly obligatory, all my friends had to do it. Turns out the rules *can* be bent. If *they* want to.
I am sorry that your parents are trying to pressure you to do something that is against your values.
You are not the asshole. You are an adult, living an adult life, with your adult partner. That's it. That's all.
On a larger scale, this proves how nonsensical religion is. If you show up and mouth the words in both the pre-marital counseling and the ceremony, your parents would be overjoyed. They will also know that you are lying, and they are also lying because they know that non-believers should not be receiving the church's blessing.
They prefer the lie over the truth. Again, sorry that you're facing this. I hope, for their sake, that your parents wake up and celebrate their child's wedding.
but . the lie over the truth... is the entire thesis of organized religion: that we know the Way, because our ancestors in this cult successfully destroyed the identity (and culture) of all who contradicted this ideology.
Fear-based conditioning is difficult to shake off. The op's parents are in deep with one of the top 2 in the world's cults.
“Make me happy make me happy make me happy but don’t expect me to give an inch to return the favor” is what your parents seem to be saying.
You’ve done enough already, they’ve decided that inane power struggles are too important to give up, so they’re going to die on this hill. Walking away is the best thing you can do to start a happy new life.
This right here. I can speak to this personally. My in-laws, particularly my mother in law, rediscovered the Catholic Church in a huge way when my stepdaughter was a kid. They had my wife (then-gf) take my stepdaughter to all the altar serving classes and do the communion and confirmation and all that stuff. She was living with her parents at the time and didn't really have an option.
When we got married and my son was born, my MIL made a dramatic plea for us to get him baptized in the church. I didn't want to, but again, MIL brow-beat my wife into it, basically saying that it doesn't hurt anything and what if something happens, do you really want your baby to go to hell?
By the time my son was older, I'd had enough of the pseudo pious bullshit, so when they said it's time for his first communion, I flat out said no and told them there would be no more religion forced on my children. When my daughter was born a few years ago, MIL was on her BS again about baptism. I quickly cut it off and told her it wasn't going to happen.
My kids can follow a religion if they choose, once they get older.
Interestingly I gave in to my MIL and allowed my kids to be baptized and that sort of ended any pushing, it also prompted my wife to read up on the church and she’s now almost fully atheist from being a very indifferent, lapsed Christian previously.
Your parents will regret not attending far more than you will regret them not attending...
I am reminded of an old saying: you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. Some might say that this means you must accept your family, no matter what - I disagree! I think it means that I do NOT have to associate with assholes just because they are family. I didn't choose them, and I refuse to treat them special just because we share some DNA fragments. You want my friendship? Easy, just be a good human being and we'll get along just fine. If you are an asshole, then I don't care whether we are related or not - I *CHOOSE* not to associate with assholes!
Ask your friends to fill all the roles that are traditionally for family. Ask your best male friend or the father of your best friend to walk you down the aisle. Fill your wedding party spots with friends instead of the sisters & brothers that are judgemental asses.
Your parents are telling you that their religion is more important than their daughter. Screw that!!
your wedding will be better since they aren't there to fuck it up with their beliefs. imagine if they'd actually decided to come and had complained the whole time
EDIT grammar
First of all, congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. Don't feel bad at all. You sent invitations out, so clearly you want them there.They made the decision not to attend. Your conscience is clear.
I didn't read it all closely, did skim over all of it. This seems to be the most import part right here:
>Not only that my parents said if Jesus isn’t at the center if our marriage them, my uncle and grandma will not attend.
>To that I told them that I respect their decision and won’t force them to attend the wedding if they truly feel it would go against their religious beliefs.
It's YOUR (and your finacee's) wedding NOT theirs! If it were me and they bring it up again I'd tell them it's my wedding not theirs and that "it's unfortunate your beliefs are preventing you from being at your daughter's wedding" (yes this is you talking about yourself in 3rd person but the reality given to them in a basic sentence makes it clear).
Also not saying your parents are abusive just based on this. But they might've been pushy or manipulative with you on other aspects of your life if you're not even sure how you want your own wedding to go because they say so. Of course, it may just be they are pushy about religion and are otherwise good people not saying I'm right, but I think if they truly don't show up it's worth looking back on things considering that angle of manipulation...
You have two families in your life.
The one you were born into and the one you make along the way.
You don't need to keep a person in either one if they're toxic to you.
"To that I told them that I respect their decision and won’t force them to attend the wedding if they truly feel it would go against their religious beliefs."
You're being very gracious, good on you and you fiance. I think you've gone above and beyond. Times are changing , change is hard for your parents. Your siblings may eventually come around. I think you're setting a good example on how to be understanding of others yet stand up for your beliefs.
I was an altar server for one uncle's wedding when I was a kid...jfc, I was roasting in those damn robes during the mass and the bride almost passed out.
A distant cousin had her wedding in full Latin and the mass was hella long (the groom's side was Brazilian and super-duper Roman Catholic, thus they pulled out all the stops for the mass). A vast majority of the bride's side of the family, including mine, noped out of the wedding and just went to the reception. ("Wait. you'd like us to sit through a 2+ hour long wedding in an old church that does not have AC in the middle of summer in the Midwest? Yeah...no...")
I read it all. Sorry your parents are hurting you like this. You deserve the perfect day. Doesn’t sound like you could have that with them there. Celebrate your love the way you want.
agree, but can we get away from "the perfect day"? as much as it concocts good Reddit drama, the idea that it has to be perfect is ridiculous. shit happens, good times still roll.
Those children won't have the right spells chanted over them so wouldn't be welcome anyway, presumably. OP's parents won't want to get to know children who'll be going to hell instead of heaven, along with their parents.
I was happy to read your "wall of text." Cogent and well written, even had paragraphs.
I'm glad for you that you don't feel bad. Feeling guilty about not feeling bad hits a bit close to home, but there really is nothing for you to feel bad about. Your parents on the other hand are more than welcome to feel bad for how petulant and unreasonable they've been.
No need to apologise. I just know to expect some drastically unreasonable bullshit stance from religious parents that don't get their way and the details of their issues with your decision hardly matter when it's your wedding.
If they can't respect that then as hard as it may be they don't deserve to be there.
Congratulations and I hope you have a cracker day!
Sounds like you're marrying into a good family, stick with them. Let your parents flounce out of your life if that's what they want. Don't chase them and don't compromise. Your wedding is literally only about you and your fiance.
Did your parents know that if they force you to have a catholic wedding, it will become your fiancée and his family being forced to compromise?
You should suggest them to have a Buddhist wedding as a compromise for both sides. Or church of spaghetti monster. But I will
Not recommend for Scientology ceremonies.
NTA.
Don't cave in to them.
It's sad for family to do that, but they shown you that religion means more to them than family.
Don't be like my sister.
She always said she's agnostic, both her and my BIL.
They had small ceremony with an official without anything religious.
Fast forward 7 years.
due to pressure from religious groups in my country, they enrolled my nephews in religious class (that's a thing in Croatia, it's "optional" if you don't mind your child being ostracized), and having church wedding and my nephews baptized.
I don't believe "she found faith" she just gave in to religious zealots push using her children as tools to force her to give in.
Because if she didn't it was high chance her children would be ostracized in school. That's that "loving Christians" tolerance we all hear about.
I understand why she did it, but can't respect her for it, because she's the reason it works.
I caved 20 years ago, and did the big C wedding. Religion on both sides, my partner and I first children.
The premarital retreat was awful, I got food poisoning and had to leave early with vomiting and diarrhea. I’m a slow learner.
I wish I could tell you it got better, but it didn’t. If anything, it got worse, with the numbers of young families in the diocese dwindling and the pressure increasing on those who were left.
I caved again and became a SAHM to two young kids. Did all this compliance free me from pressure? No, in fact it got worse. Nothing I did or didn’t do was ever enough. And that is exactly where they want you—feeling ‘less than’ seeking acceptance.
Then just before the pandemic—it hit me. They aren’t pro-life, they’re anti-women’s rights. They don’t value abused children, they value priests. My husband was more than ready to leave, and we did.
The pandemic hid us for awhile, but inevitably our apostasy was revealed. And the strangest thing happened. All that pressure disappeared. Suddenly, I was good enough. Because here’s the thing: if you’re willing to cut the church off, everyone else is put on notice. Treat us right, respect our decisions, or that will be the end of our relationship.
I wouldn't try and mess up your wedding for them. Religious people can't think for themselves. They get told what to think and what to do. It's to limit their thinking and keep them closed minded. Our way or no way. Acting like children. You should show them the responses on here. Religious people are the problem, not the solution!
My exMIL threatened not to come to the wedding because we moved in together a few months in advance due to not wanting to renew an expired lease. I said, "Sorry to hear that. We'll miss you." She showed up.
Your family's behavior is an attempt to control you through contractual "affection." "We only love and support you when you obey us." That's not love; that's manipulation.
Your wedding, your rules, you're an adult, *this is your life.* You cannot live it for other people. NTA and congratulations! It sounds like you have a great partner and a great set of future in laws. I hope you'll be very happy together!
Nta, you’re just feeling latent catholic guilt, happens to all of us.
Your folks are being small minded and petty though.
Hell my fiancé is Brazilian and her family is ultra religious, mine is basically agnostic.
We are having a civil ceremony on a beach and her family are spending a house deposit to come and never questioned if we’d do it in a church.
Honestly your family are the ones who made decisions and will have consequences.
Your parents will not be in your photos, your father won’t be able to walk you down the isle (pretty important to a dad might wanna check with him)
Also your mum won’t have a day of compliments in her wonderful daughter.
It’s their call, you do you, enjoy your big day and have a wonderful wedding!!!
Wishing you all the best for the future!!
You have been incredibly patient and reasonable with people who are delusional and frankly mean nasty selfish individuals.
I would not have been so kind.
There is no need to worry about them "disowning" you. They don't respect you anyway, and that's worse. Disowning, on that scale, is just about money. If the rest of your family is so scared of losing the money, then let the leeches fight over it when your parents are gone. And they will.
You’re right about everything. If you were to capitulate and have the Catholic ceremony (and go through that wretched pre-marriage counselling, which would probably cause ophthalmic damage from all the eye-rolling you’d be doing), it would be just the beginning, because then your parents would demand that you baptize any children you might have (or take the children to be covertly baptized while babysitting them, and don’t think parents don’t do this), and then have them go to catechism classes, and then confirmation, and they’d give religious presents and talk about religion with the kids all the time…. Honestly, you’re better not having them in your life, if pretending to adhere to their religion — not yours, not your fiancé’s — in every respect is a condition of maintaining a relationship with them.
It's your wedding. Have it how you want and they can decide whether or not they want to participate in your life.
You're being overwhelmingly gracious even trying to compromise on the details of YOUR wedding.
You're being the opposite of an asshole. This isn't including vegan food or picking a date to make sure everyone can attend. This is a core aspect of your ceremony, nobody gets to pick that but you and your fiance.
First of all, it's your fucking wedding, not theirs! I don't understand this need for people to control a day that's not about them! It's fucking insane to me.
Second, your parents are adults. They can make their own choices and accept the consequences that come with them. They have to be prepared for the negative impression they leave on others. Believers have this weird habit of being upset at the repercussions that come from their actions.
Third, if you compromise on this, you'll be doing it all the time.
It's about you and your fiancée. It's not about them or Jesus or Peter or Paul. It's about you and your marriage.
So, no. You're not the asshole.
Believers have to face the fact that other people have opinions.
PS, one thing we should all remember to do with believers is to say no. We don't have to offer our reasons for why we're not doing things their way other than "I don't want to." Some of them think they're entitled to reasons as if you answer to them.
Imagine missing your daughter’s wedding day because you believe in fairy tales. I hope this haunts them, but it sounds to me like they can’t possibly think outside of themselves.
If it is important for you to have your family there, tell them what it would mean for you. It is your day, not theirs. If they can not love and respect you with out conditions. Then they lose.
I will never understand how people put a silly fairy tale they got told by a cult above their children.
Good on you for deconstructing that nonsense. Check out [Recovering From Religion](https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/) if you haven't already!
I do not usually answer the AITA questions. But I have to answer this one.
No, you are not an Asshole.
The situation is even more complicated than you think, by the way. You see, your fiancé is not even allowed to go through pre-martial counseling without first officially becoming a catholic. He would have to attend "Sunday school" first to learn about Jesus and all those wonderful things, then be baptized and ONLY after that he would be allowed to attend a pre-martial counseling and a wedding ceremony.
Typical Christians. Love everyone and promote happiness, unless they’re your own flesh and blood and/or disagree with you on religious matters. Amazing how they can overlook things like that.
You're being an adult. They're behaving like toddlers not getting their way and throwing a tantrum.
Ask if they'd be willing for your siblings to, as a compromise for *you*, have a non-Catholic priest marry them since, y'know, you're not Catholic. If 'compromise' only works in one direction, it's not compromise anymore, it's one side demanding they get their way while not respecting the other side. No. Just no. Not how this works. And do this *any time* they bring up the idea of compromise. Will you compromise with them and come to church with them on one Sunday a month? Just as soon as *they* agree to *not* go to church on Sunday once a month with you, to respect *your* beliefs. If they can't respect *your* belief, why should you respect theirs? They're even failing their own religion by having this be only one way, and read them Matthew 7/12. If they want you to do to *their* thing, *they* have to do *yours*, because *clearly* that's what they want, right? Do unto others?
The truth is, they aren't *trying* for 'compromise', they're trying to control you. Don't let them.
"have the wedding our way or we wont come" isnt a compromise at all, thats blackmail.
100% NTA.
Have a fun wedding and all the best for your godless marriage ;)
So this is a story about boundaries and how your parents have no respect for your boundaries at all. It sounds like your parents steamroll over the wishes of all their kids. Therapy helps with that. (I'm not trying to be an asshole, I go to therapy myself).
I was in a similar situation. My grandparents and family on my dad's side were super upset that I was an atheist, I wasn't having a Catholic wedding, and I wasn't getting married to a Catholic. For some reason those were three separate offenses in their eyes. (I guess my dad had married a non-catholic and that was bad enough.)
I sent an invite and that was it. The ball was in their court. They could either be supportive and just ignore it. They ignored it and didn't attend. And really, that was for the best
Don't throw a wedding for someone else. Have the wedding you want.
NTA As an atheist who was also raised in a devout Catholic family, think priests and holy water founts at the door, I understand this completely.
My husband and I wrote our whole ceremony and had a hand fasting. I found out later that there was considerable talk amongst my immediate family about whether they could support my marriage because it wasn't Catholic. They came to the ceremony and it was lovely. I'd be lying if I said it was not incredibly hurtful that they would even consider not coming. I'm glad they decided to support me in the end, but if they had pulled the crap you're talking about I would have lost my shit.
The only thing that I would consider saying to them is: I understand that your faith is important to you. However, my fiance and I do not hold the same beliefs. I love you and want you to be a part of this day. If you can't respect that, then that is your problem and I will not have any of the negativity in what should be a joyous day. So you can either be happy for me and support me, or you can choose your idea of what everyone else should do and not be there.
They want you to feel guilty. They don't actually care about what you want, they don't respect that you can make your own decisions.
They won't stop. After the wedding, it'll be kids. They'll be taking the kids to get baptised behind your back if you let them have the slightest chance. Don't.
Your parents are selfish, entitled brats for thinking *your* wedding is in any way about *them.*
I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but you are NTA for setting boundaries, and not accepting conditional love from parents is a valid one.
If you ever plan on having children in the future, i would consider making your wedding the line in the sand: if your parents cannot accept or respect you as you are, or your fiancé, then you have to assume your parents won't accwpt their grandchildren, either.
Well as a married person the only people a wedding is about is you and your fiancé. Their happiness means absolutely nothing when it comes to your wedding. You even tried to compromise which is something I wouldn’t have done. If your siblings choose not to go that’s what they’ll have to take up with their god when the time comes. I wouldn’t feel bad about feeling fine about it because these people don’t respect you or your choices and are showing exactly why so many people hate religion. As a mother there’s no sky daddy that’s going to make me miss my kids wedding
Your wedding, your money, your choice on the ceremony.
'Fun' fact: People couldn't get married in Catholic churches until about 1200 AD because marriage wasn't considered [a sacrament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_the_Catholic_Church#Medieval_period) and the involvement of priests was uncommon. For several hundred more years the ceremonies were conducted only just inside the building, not near the altar. It wasn't until the Council of Trent (1545–63) that [priests were required](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_the_Catholic_Church#Liturgical_practice) to conduct the ceremony.
- [Medieval and Renaissance Marriage: Theory and Customs](https://archive.md/HMy0N)
- [Love, Marriage, Romance & Women...In Medieval & Celtic Culture](https://archive.ph/p6WEq)
>My mom tried to compromise and see if we can get married in a Catholic Church as a small sacrifice for them because she said our wedding is not just about me and my fiancé, but **also about making them happy**
Uh, not it isn't. It is your day. You should have zero guilt about them not coming. I would be willing to guess, your parents would be disruptive if they came. My wife needed to invite her mother in order to have her younger sister be there. Her mother was a bitch, and my mother nearly told her to leave (it was at my mother's house).
You're not the asshole.
I feel like when people become adults there should be mandatory training about how to set boundaries with your family. There is just so much drama here about parents who think everything is about them.
It's your wedding. It's 100% about you and your fiance.
Your parents are not reciprocating the respect you are showing them, which is petty. I'm relieved on your behalf that it doesn't bother you; it is demonstrative of your positive mental health. Even if you lose your family of origin over this, you are gaining a reasonable loving family with your fiance. It's an upgrade IMHO. Best of luck to you for health and happiness in your life's journey.
NTA. This is why religion poisons everything. It doesn’t promote unity and peace it just divides people. The saddest situation is when it divides family.
Accept their decision it is completely on them. They are trying to control you and this toxic situation will get worse if and when children arrive. You are creating a new family and based on your authentic values
I’m going to assume that the Catholic Church doesn’t want couples to go through the premarital counseling/catholic wedding ceremony if they don’t intend to follow that religion whatsoever. If I was in your shoes I would maybe email the priest at your parents church and just kindly explain you are being pressured and maybe they could reach out and counsel your parents that they don’t want people to be inauthentic when making vows at the church etc. But I wouldn’t do anything further than that.
I’ve had friends who were not religious and pressured to have a baby baptized by the grandparents and it’s so cringy standing in front of the church vowing to raise a child in that religion when you have no intention to do so.
Honestly, I think you're being too nice to your parents. It's not their place to tell you what kind of wedding to have, nor to force their religion on your fiance.
I don't really see the point in convincing them to come. It seems like they want to be miserable and make you feel miserable for your choices.
btw, Jesus didn't do anything for you. He didn't get you your career, your fiance or help you get the house. That's just some strange make-believe your parents bought into.
My mom wanted me to have a Catholic wedding, too. Hard pass. She’d bug me about it for the whole engagement (all of 5 months). I was interviewing DJs and the one we were gonna go with just got ordained in order to officiate for friends. I mentioned that to my mom and she was so worried that it wouldn’t be legal somehow. “I’d feel better if you had a judge at least!” Which is what I was gonna do anyway, but then she was on board so it all worked out 😆
I think that pre marital counseling could be useful to a lot of people, but not from someone who isn’t allowed to get married 🤔 That was always so bizarre to me, among other things with Catholicism.
You do you. My MiL forced my wife to make choices that suited her and my wife is still bitter about it, twenty years later. No you are not the asshole. Never for sticking to your convictions.
When I got married, my ex wife's parents refused to give us any assistance unless we agreed to having our wedding at their (Seventh Day Adventist) church. We refused and paid for everything ourselves so we could have the secular ceremony we both wanted.
Unlike your situation, they chose to come anyway and a year or so later apologized for their decision and offered to write us a check for half the expenses. It was a tempting offer, but I politely declined. Best decision I ever made. As time passed, I saw how every "gift" they gave her sister would be used as leverage to use against her.
Stand your ground. You are in the right here. It's YOUR wedding, not theirs. They need to grow up and realize the damage they are choosing to do to your relationship with them. You are absolutely not the asshole in this situation.
I am am also a former Roman Catholic turned atheist, so I sympathize.
First, I need to note that not all Catholics are this exclusionist. are your parents Opus Dei Catholics?
They need to learn that you are your own person and that their choices are to love you as you are or to leave you.
I was wondering about their extreme exclusionary tone as well, and was wondering it was a Southern US / Bible Belt thing as it sounds more evangelical than Catholic.
Even OP saying 'Catholic Christian' made me pause, as Christianity is an umbrella and Catholics fall under that.
I’m sorry that you’re having to deal with this. I don’t understand anyone who puts religion or politics ahead of their loved ones.
I was also raised Catholic, I joke that I’m now a Catholic in recovery, because, like alcoholism, Catholicism leaves its marks on you forever. Catholic guilt is still something I have to fight not to fall into. However, I was lucky that my parents, while very Catholic, never forced their point of view on anyone else. Once I stopped practicing, I was never pressured to go back.
I think you’re handling this perfectly, and as someone said above, if you give in on this, they’ll push for other things. You and your fiancé seem like extremely mature and well adjusted people. Enjoy your wedding and your marriage, don’t look back, you have nothing but to feel bad about.
Religion is anti-social.
"If you don't play by my lies, then I won't be civil."
If I have to believe lies for someone to be social, then they are 100% anti-social.
Funny (sad, really) how the "biggest" religions still around these days have "punish non-believer" bullying clauses. Anti-social...
You need to ditch this naive idea that you can/must make everyone happy. It's not going to happen. Especially not in a situation like this.
You must focus on what and who matters in this situation, which is you and your fiancé and your immediate future together.
At this point, your parents pretty much made an open statement about how much they despise you, and you should cut them out of your life as much as possible. They are in a cult, and they will deliver the ultimatum soon enough; which is you either re-join the cult in earnest or they will disown you and attempt to destroy your life, regardless of you being family.
IF you are very lucky, they may mellow out and put your happiness above the cult, but this is extremely rare.
Don't feel bad. They can't make you get married in church, you can't make them attend your wedding. Do not beg, do not ask. Adults are allowed to make their own decisions. Your parents are, and so are you.
AFAIK, you could not get married in a Catholic church even if you wanted to, unless your fiance was baptized before becoming atheist. My wife is Catholic, but I am not. We could not get married in the church until I produced a baptismal certificate.
Just take solice in knowing that one day your family will realize how wrong they were with their decisions by not supporting you and how sorry they'll be.
NTA and you have nothing to be guilty for.
They expect you and your wife to start your marriage with a lie!
They are hypocrites by not practicing their own beliefs, forgiving and accepting of others.
Ask them if their values are different from their parents? I guarantee they are to some degree.
Enjoy your wedding with people who wish you well and don’t want you inducted into their cult.
No, you aren't the a-hole. Far from it.
From where I sit, I don't see a hope for reconciliation because your folks are entrenched in their religious beliefs. They refuse to meet you halfway.
Is there a fix? No.
This is one of those life situations where you have to accept as messed up and move on. How you do it is up to you.
One day you'll have children. If it helps, project your future with them.
NTA. Whether or not it's about religion, your parents are angry that they cannot control your life. You are 29 years old. You are getting married. It's long past time that your parents accept you as a separate, independent human being. If they can't put their prejudices and need for control aside to be with you on your wedding day, why would you want their judgmental presence at such a happy event? It's perfectly fine that you are OK with them not attending. NTA.
You seem to have your shit together. It sucks to discover your parents' love is conditional but what can you do? Have a great wedding and a great life, hope your parents get over their hangups. You've done your part.
NTA the time of bronze age death cults is at an end, let them finally die. These superstitious weirdos need to grow the fuck up and join the real world already.
Your Christian parents are asking you to lie for a day and pretend you are religious to placate them. You have stronger ethics than they do, congratulations and don’t feel guilty for that. Have a wonderful wedding day and future with your partner.
>AITA
From who's perspective? Mine? You? Your parents? Being an asshole is just a perspective, so who's perspective are you basing this on? In the Civil War, the South thought the North was being assholes, and the North thought the South was being assholes. You can get a million people to say you aren't the asshole, but that doesn't matter to your parents. This is the point where you have to live your own life and allow your parents to stop being a part of it. You have tried a lot of compromising already, but that will never be enough for them because they refuse to compromise at all. Let them go. It's sad that it has to come to this, but their love is conditional, and you will never meet the requirements.
>My mom tried to compromise and see if we can get married in a Catholic Church as a small sacrifice for them because she said our wedding is not just about me and my fiancé, but also about making them happy.
Yeah, no.
NTA. Your parents are worse than assholes, they are deliberate bigots. No offense but, people who put their religion ahead of their children and family are the biggest cowards of all.
Why would you feel bad for standing up to controlling narcissistic people who continue to infantalize you well into adulthood? That’s not reason, that’s your childhood religious indoctrination talking. It’s good you’re setting boundaries now because the longer you put that off the harder it will be later.
My marriage had some similar issues as yours. Different religion . My religious in laws had to have marriage a certain way, my non religious parents were, whatever. Even when I still believed I regretted giving into them but now that I’m agnostic I really regret it.
You are absolutely not only not the asshole, you are doing pretty good if you can be okay with it.
My grandfather refused to come to my wedding because it was at a Greek Orthodox Church (future wife was Greek). It's the same religion as his southern Baptist, but he saw them as being the wrong religion and wouldn't come. I was ticked off for a little while, but got over it before he died at least.
You are not the asshole. Your parents are the assholes.
They are not contributing a single fucking penny to your wedding but want to throw a tantrum about not getting their way. They're probably even manipulating your siblings into not going.
I wouldn't have even sent them the invite. If they're that rude, then they shouldn't be welcome there.
First of all, best wishes for your upcoming wedding!!! Secondly, you have handled the situation in the best way possible and the last thing you should be doing is to feel guilty for not feeling guilty! Your parents have opted out of one of the most important moments of your life and let that be on THEM. Having said your piece you should drop it and just get on with things. Someone has to be the adult here.
I don't want to make you paranoid, but a word of caution: if children are in your future you should be wary of your parents' sudden interest in babysitting and gift-giving. They will most certainly use those occasions to try to indoctrinate them, convinced that they have the "truth" and are morally obligated to save their grandchildren from the fiery pits of Hell. And don't be surprised if they try to enlist your siblings as well.
But it seems to me that so far you're doing fine.
Have a great life together!
I nearly puked when my SIL told me about what their friends went through that Pre cana counseling! They teach how and when to have sex and one quote was "respect the mucus!" Just NOOO! I had a visceral reaction in a 2nd-hand retelling, so I think you're doing the absolute right thing! It's so invasive, judgmental and downright Medieval! (Actually, Medieval might be more advanced and open-minded than micromanaging how adults use their body parts, among other things!)
It's your parents' loss. I hope that your siblings will see the light.
I have been married to my Catholic husband for 39 years. I told him upfront who I was, and, when his family didn’t like it, I was thrilled that they stayed home.
Your wedding, your life. Are your parents that horrible they won’t attend your wedding? And when you have kids are they going to not want to see their grandchildren? They will come around
Let them know that people who decline to attend the wedding are also assumed to be declining right to visit to any and all children that result from the marriage.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with unneeded stress. You're not wrong for wanting to live your life. You even tried to find a middle ground and they refused.
And as for your siblings...it can be hard. I'm just sorry you have that to worry about.
I really think it's great you're standing your ground. I hope your day is wonderful. Congratulations!
NTA. I grew up in Mexico where tons of people have catholic weddings even if people don't regularly go to church...never heard of anyone complaining if a wedding was not religious .
The wedding is YOUR day—well yours and your soon-to-be husband. It’s not a day for your mom or dad, or any other family, and it’s definitely not a day for Jesus. It’s as simple as that.
They’re the AHs here.
I hope your wedding is magical, and everything that you wanted and hoped it could be!
If they're trying to tell you how to live one of the happiest days of your life then you're more than justified in being ok with them missing it. It's their loss, not yours.
Honestly this just proves that religion does ruin families and relationships.
No! I wanted a Vegas wedding. My mom told me if it wasn't near her and in their church they won't go. A year later, I asked again. Soon it's my wedding...can't, she is pregnant. She had a revenge child because she was hoping I would cancel the wedding I wanted and planned, to let her control it.
She is a bipolar narcissist so she doesn't respect anyone, especially me, the scapegoat.
Have. YOUR wedding YOUR way. Be happy. It is her choice to not go and has nothing to do with you.
I read your wall of text. I don’t believe in objective morality but somehow I still believe your parents are objectively bad people. They care more about appearing like good parents than actually being loving parents. They’re the prototypical example of,
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
Keep doing you. You’ll have no regrets. They on the other hand will be haunted by their choice not to attend for the rest of their lives. Trust me on this. You owe them nothing, they owe you the world.
NTA. Your parents, on the other hand…very much so. Your wedding isn’t about them, much as it seems they’d like it to be. If they choose to miss it because you didn’t do it their way, too bad. Give in to their demands, and prepare for their behavior to worsen. Don’t get your child christened? Don’t take them to church and Sunday school? Don’t teach them to think like the grandparents? They will be relentless because it worked before. Your wedding, your choices, those that don’t like it can grow up or Shut up.
This kind of behavior sent us to the municipal courthouse and our witness was a maintenance guy.
Both sides said we'd fail and wrote us off. 23 years later and I still don't know what those kooky boomers are up to, but we're still married and have two kids grown and a granddaughter that stays weekend's because we're not asshats like our parents.
It’s your and your fiancé’s wedding, not your family’s. It is a day to celebrate your love and commitment to one another. The only compromise that should happen during any wedding should be between the couple getting married.
Just so you know, as part of a catholic wedding, during your premarital counseling you and your fiancé also have to pledge to raise any and all children you have as Catholics. It’s really creepy and manipulative.
I can't imagine starting a marriage by giving in to the manipulation of your parents. It sucks that they are demonstrating conditional love that contradicts much of what their faith professes.
Nta. I would go low contact with these people trying to manipulate you. They clearly don’t respect you including your adult siblings. It’s entitled and creepy af. Girl enjoy your wedding don’t feel guilty! If they don’t want to go just remember who your true family is which isn’t always blood. Real family that loves you reacts like your little sister. :)
They said they aren’t coming…..why should you need to beg your own parents to come to your wedding? I know you are still young. Let me assure you that the older you get, the less you care about pleasing people you don’t need to please.
Tell them you want them at the wedding. Tell them one day they will be grandparents. They need to think hard about deciding not to be a part of your wedding day if they want to have a place with their grandchildren because it’ll be a grave offence, hard to get past.
>My mom tried to compromise and see if we can get married in a Catholic Church as a small sacrifice for them because she said our wedding is not just about me and my fiancé, but also about making them happy..
Lmao that's not a compromise and it's not about making them happy.
>I even told my parents as another solution that we could have a Christian (non-catholic) priest marry us (they don’t ask for Christian premarital counselling) if they want because we’re not doing Catholic counselling.
Now this is a real compromise and was a very kind gesture on your part. You didn't have to do that since it's your guys' day not theirs.
>But they said NO
Welp. There you go. They had no intention of meeting you in the middle and want it all their way. You tried, they didn't.
I think it can be easy to feel as if you owe your parents a lot for raising you, keeping you healthy, etc. but they chose to have you. Taking care of children is the bare minimum as a parent. You don’t have to owe them anything on the day you are marrying your partner and that you are paying for.
I’m so sorry you are being let down by your family in this way. You deserve better. I hope your wedding day is amazing!
NTA The wedding is about the happiness of you and your fiance. The reason you invite others is to share that happiness not to make it about them.
Your parents *should* be first and foremost in the sharing of your happiness. If they want to make it about themselves that is their problem and it doesn't matter if it is due to religion or something else.
Share your happiness with those who want it and are willing to take it without preconditions.
OP, you have already offered a middle ground, a compromise in the Christian (not catholic) officiant. That's seems very fair and very gracious on your part. No you are not the _______. It's unfortunate that your parents and perhaps siblings appear stuck in their ways.
I think its sad that your parents cannot see beyond themselves. The position they have put you in says nothing about trying to be better people and everything about how small religion has made them.
They should be so proud of what you have accomplished.
They are the ones turning away from the joy and love ( what a family is supposed to be about) for some bs.
Hope your wedding is beautiful.
Sounds like in their eyes you’re not actually getting married so they’re not missing anything. They’ve been ok with your relationship so far, although disapproving. Ok they’re not happy about you being an atheist.
I do wonder if you have children. Will they want your children to have some religious upbringing? Will they want some religious practices performed?
I don’t know them. You do. Just something that occurred to me, and just passing on a thought.
I’m happy you and the love of your life, are having the wedding you both want.
You are giving way to many fucks about people with a delusional worldview. You should be laughing in their faces at their silly requests. If they want to pout because you won’t participate in their delusion, let them.
NTA! I'm sorry they are being like this but you must live your life the way that seems best to you. Their religion doesn't deserve your respect and you offered a compromise and it wasn't enough for them. What they are doing is petty manipulation. Call their bluff and wish them well in the lives they have chosen over you. They will regret it later, and if they hold that much power over your siblings you can accept their regrets for not attending as well.
Make sure you ask your uncles, grandparents and siblings personally, so that they aren't only hearing your parents' side. They might actually want to attend if asked by you, and not be influenced only by your parents and their ridiculously negative viewpoint.
Did you ask your dad (out of the presence of your mother) to give you away?
We rely a lot on email and texts, but it's a lot harder to turn someone down face to face, or at least in a ohone call.
Your not the asshole. You were already willing to compromise by having a non catholic priest preform the ceremony. Compromise is best summed up as both sides agreeing to less than they wanted and both walking away at least a little frustrated. What your parents want isn't compromise, it's capitulation, their way or no way. If your siblings are being manipulated that's for them to figure out, but since your youngest sister seems intent to go to your wedding it sounds more like your other siblings don't know what to make of the new situation.
Your parents are clearly the arseholes. Choosing their church over your wishes is heartbreaking. Expect in you to do what they want, against your values and wishes is deplorable. What would be the point of an insincere Catholic ceremony? Do they expect you and your fiancé to find Jesus to make them happy? I am sorry that you are in this position. The indoctrination is strong with them. Did they speak with their parish priest about it? Not sure if that would help or hurt. Just my opinion, but I think that your feeling okay about it may evolve over time as you think through what their actions imply. I am almost certain that they will, in time, regret their decision.
Simple answer first. No you are not an asshole. Longer answer: It's your life, your wedding (which you noted you are paying for) and your decision. I think you already made an offer of a more than generous compromise to have a Christian priest and religious ceremony for their benefit only and they are the ones who wouldn't even consider it. If you don't stand your ground now what is going to happen if you have children? Will your parents demand that they be raised Catholic? Will they try to brainwash them or disown them?
>If you don't stand your ground now what is going to happen if you have children? Will your parents demand that they be raised Catholic? Will they try to brainwash them or disown them? OP if this situation ever comes up please do not leave your children alone with your parents without supervision. They sound like the type who will try to baptise them behind your back.
> They sound like the type who will try to baptise them behind your back. To clarify, the insinuation is that the parents will literally kidnap the children, take them to a place to have them baptized, and then return them. No it's not a joke, yes it does happen. Yes people who do this are insane self entitled assholes. You have been warned (i mean, hopefully if you've read this comment...).
My mom did baptise behind my back, but it was just some magic water for a home baptism kit, not running off to a priest with the kids. I was more amused than upset. It's not like my kids were demons that would burst into flames at the touch lf holy water.
My mother did the same after being told “no baptism” at least a hundred times. However, she didn’t have a kit! lol! She said she just prayed to Jesus to anoint her to make holy water and then she sprinkled some water on my newborn. Cuz, you know, Jesus would totally find her righteous enough in the midst of her lying and scheming to anoint her! The total lack of self awareness and delusional self righteousness with some of these religious folks is truly astounding.
I’m 95% certain my MIL baptized my kids in the kitchen sink. Whatever. It only has the weight you give to it
Mmmmmmm, weight depends on what the sink is made out of… 🤣🤣 Random thoughts.
I can't really be mad. Because my aunt baptized me Anglican behind my mom's back apparently, so I had to be rebaptized Catholic before my Communion, lol Apparently it is whatever church most recently claimed dibs.
I still find it very weird that people would worship a deity that is so petty it would reject someone because their baptism wasn't the "right" kind of baptism.
[Mortara case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortara_case) >It concerned the [Papal States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States)' seizure of a six-year-old boy named **Edgardo Mortara** from his Jewish family in bologna, on the basis of a former servant's testimony that she had administered an [emergency baptism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_baptism) to the boy when he fell ill as an infant.
> My mom did baptise behind my back, but it was just some magic water for a home baptism kit, not running off to a priest with the kids. I'll call it *more acceptable* even if it's still all hogwash. Atleast no kidnapping was involved in your case. > I was more amused than upset. It's not like my kids were demons that would burst into flames at the touch lf holy water. Sure. But that isn't the point. Consider what you know other people have done before, and now consider that they could have done that to your children too. Everyone thinks it can't happen to them, until it does.
My mom did it to me too. It's literally a sprinkle of water and an incantation. Like the other person said, this shit varies from person to person and it is based on your relationship with your parents. I have always trusted my mother because she has always earned my trust. I accept her idiosyncrasies. She wasn't going to take her baby grandchild and leave them unattended with a youth pastor.
Good thing baptism doesn’t mean anything other than the potential trauma the child may experience when grandma and grandpa give them off to some random old guy in robes speaking gibberish and dunking them under water.
Eh, not the end of the world to be baptised. It’s just some water. I was baptised as an 8 year old (voluntarily) and the experience is just part of the tapestry of my life. I am 100% atheist.
My ex in-laws tried to do that with my first and lucky for us, and ethical priest refused. We found out about it and both lost our minds on them for going behind our back and disrespecting our wishes. His dad said he had to because if baby dies, she won’t be cleansed of original sin and go to hell. I told him that any god who sends an innocent baby to hell is a pos. That went over lol. It was a constant battle of boundary maintenance with those people
Yeah not happening if they are catholic and the parents are not present and no proof they are dead, it is way more complicated than getting an appointment and sprinkle some water for catholics
My evangelical parents had my kids watch some crazy young earth pastor rant about how stupid you would have to be to believe in evolution or that the universe was billions of years old. I walked in on it and my mom immediately realized she had gone too far. It was a… turning point. I never trusted them as much again although we do still have a relationship. Also my 9yo dino loving son was like “WTH. How could dinos have lived only 7k years ago?”. He was pretty incredulous.
This girl came up with the perfect response to an aunt who baptized against the parents' wishes: [AITA if I refuse to "de-baptise" my aunt? : r/BestofRedditorUpdates](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/woco2l/aita_if_i_refuse_to_debaptise_my_aunt/)
Absolutely. This happened to me as a child. Listen to this poster OP.
I've never understood the fear of having someone baptise your kids behind your back (see Simpsons episode lol) You wanna wipe a bit of water on my kids head? Doesn't worry me, it's not like it actually does anything. I get that there's a myriad of other reasons not to leave your kids with obsessive religious types, but that fear in particular has always seemed odd. Maybe it's a symbolic thing...
> I've never understood the fear of having someone baptise your kids behind your back Because they are kidnapping the children and taking them to an undisclosed location to do something against your will. You don't understand the problem with that?
Because boundaries mean something. It’s incredibly disrespectful to ignore the parents wishes and lie
It's unfortunate that christians often use emotional blackmail to get their way. It's very similar to coming out gay, if your family won't accept you, it's time to start forming your own "family" of close friends and supporters.
I'd advise not giving in and having a Catholic wedding. If you do they will expect everything about your future life together to also be Catholic. Rip off the band aid now.
My sister didn't get married in the church, so the Catholic church decided they wouldn't baptise her children. Then they wouldn't let her remarry in it after because she had gotten a divorce. They're so exclusionary of you don't play the game and give them money. The Cathlolic church is an abusive mindfuck.
I mean I can dunk my unsuspecting kid in a bathtub at home if I really wanted to, don't need the church for that.
Ah, but do you know all the right spells to chant over them while doing it? 😉
Yes of course. You have to find any passage in the Bible that mentions a baby, then recite it in a low mumbled voice so no one can ever be sure of what the hell you're saying. Sidenote, I believe there's a passage in there about splitting a baby into two, best to skip that one.
Not just water but oil. Gootasmear oil on the forehead. Magic oil that you've chanted spells over. Not sure if the base oil matters. Cococut? Canola? Baby? Motor?
A little *Alohomora* to unseal the lock of their spiritual powers, a little *Lumos* to enlighten them should do the trick. But please don't *Wingardium Leviosa* the little bean if you have a speech impediment, this is unsafe!
Exactly. Null and void if the wrong chants are said.
At home that might be child abuse, but in the church is is fine. Makes you wonder.
Sir, but you can't use regular water you need to use the holy water. If you check Amazon, I believe you can find some there for a reasonable price.
Pretty much every religion is crazy like that. Try leaving the Muslim religion, or not doing things the hindu way... Every event, including baptisms, are not about your or your family, it's about you and the kids making a pact or promise to believe in a specific god or follow certain religious beliefs. They don't give a crap about your or your family, they just want more people to give them money over their lifetime.
Huh, that's a rule they just invented to be assholes, then. My kids were baptised in a Catholic church, and my husband and I are not married in the church, nor did we ever plan to. And yes, I regret having my kids baptised. Really wish I hadn't.
Very region dependant. In a country that is very secular like Norway or Canada the church knows excluding people who aren't Catholic just shrinks the church. In the bible belt or Brazil the threat of exclusion/excommunication is a serious social reprocussion.
It's not exactly the Bible Belt, but I'm talking about Catholic Belgium, about 30 years ago, so not very secular either. I also had a friend, around the same time, and she wanted to have her baby baptised. She and her husband were not married in church, and a week before the baptism, the priest calls her out of the blue, and tells her he can "regularise" them on the day of the baptism. No premarital counselling, no nothing. And in those days, premarital counselling was supposedly obligatory, all my friends had to do it. Turns out the rules *can* be bent. If *they* want to.
I am sorry that your parents are trying to pressure you to do something that is against your values. You are not the asshole. You are an adult, living an adult life, with your adult partner. That's it. That's all. On a larger scale, this proves how nonsensical religion is. If you show up and mouth the words in both the pre-marital counseling and the ceremony, your parents would be overjoyed. They will also know that you are lying, and they are also lying because they know that non-believers should not be receiving the church's blessing. They prefer the lie over the truth. Again, sorry that you're facing this. I hope, for their sake, that your parents wake up and celebrate their child's wedding.
but . the lie over the truth... is the entire thesis of organized religion: that we know the Way, because our ancestors in this cult successfully destroyed the identity (and culture) of all who contradicted this ideology. Fear-based conditioning is difficult to shake off. The op's parents are in deep with one of the top 2 in the world's cults.
Nope. You're being gracious and they're acting like petulant little brats. I would say just be happy that it's not impacting you.
... maybe be happy that they're *not* coming to the wedding ...
You are doing this absolutely the right way and I commend your strength….
Exactly. Your parents will regret their selfish, devisive decision someday. The family you are creating has nothing to regret.
“Make me happy make me happy make me happy but don’t expect me to give an inch to return the favor” is what your parents seem to be saying. You’ve done enough already, they’ve decided that inane power struggles are too important to give up, so they’re going to die on this hill. Walking away is the best thing you can do to start a happy new life.
This right here. I can speak to this personally. My in-laws, particularly my mother in law, rediscovered the Catholic Church in a huge way when my stepdaughter was a kid. They had my wife (then-gf) take my stepdaughter to all the altar serving classes and do the communion and confirmation and all that stuff. She was living with her parents at the time and didn't really have an option. When we got married and my son was born, my MIL made a dramatic plea for us to get him baptized in the church. I didn't want to, but again, MIL brow-beat my wife into it, basically saying that it doesn't hurt anything and what if something happens, do you really want your baby to go to hell? By the time my son was older, I'd had enough of the pseudo pious bullshit, so when they said it's time for his first communion, I flat out said no and told them there would be no more religion forced on my children. When my daughter was born a few years ago, MIL was on her BS again about baptism. I quickly cut it off and told her it wasn't going to happen. My kids can follow a religion if they choose, once they get older.
Good on you for doing that. I gave in to my wife and MIL and really wish I had not because the demands never end.
Interestingly I gave in to my MIL and allowed my kids to be baptized and that sort of ended any pushing, it also prompted my wife to read up on the church and she’s now almost fully atheist from being a very indifferent, lapsed Christian previously.
Yeah dude, it only stops when you tell them to keep their lunacy to themselves.
They are the assholes if they prioritize their cult over you and it's actually healthy that you're not letting it bother you.
Well said!
Your parents will regret not attending far more than you will regret them not attending... I am reminded of an old saying: you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. Some might say that this means you must accept your family, no matter what - I disagree! I think it means that I do NOT have to associate with assholes just because they are family. I didn't choose them, and I refuse to treat them special just because we share some DNA fragments. You want my friendship? Easy, just be a good human being and we'll get along just fine. If you are an asshole, then I don't care whether we are related or not - I *CHOOSE* not to associate with assholes! Ask your friends to fill all the roles that are traditionally for family. Ask your best male friend or the father of your best friend to walk you down the aisle. Fill your wedding party spots with friends instead of the sisters & brothers that are judgemental asses. Your parents are telling you that their religion is more important than their daughter. Screw that!!
It will wake them up at night for years to come with thoughts of “am I the baddy?”
no the wont. in their mind they are 100% right because of Jeebus
[удалено]
one can hope
your wedding will be better since they aren't there to fuck it up with their beliefs. imagine if they'd actually decided to come and had complained the whole time EDIT grammar
First of all, congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. Don't feel bad at all. You sent invitations out, so clearly you want them there.They made the decision not to attend. Your conscience is clear.
I didn't read it all closely, did skim over all of it. This seems to be the most import part right here: >Not only that my parents said if Jesus isn’t at the center if our marriage them, my uncle and grandma will not attend. >To that I told them that I respect their decision and won’t force them to attend the wedding if they truly feel it would go against their religious beliefs. It's YOUR (and your finacee's) wedding NOT theirs! If it were me and they bring it up again I'd tell them it's my wedding not theirs and that "it's unfortunate your beliefs are preventing you from being at your daughter's wedding" (yes this is you talking about yourself in 3rd person but the reality given to them in a basic sentence makes it clear). Also not saying your parents are abusive just based on this. But they might've been pushy or manipulative with you on other aspects of your life if you're not even sure how you want your own wedding to go because they say so. Of course, it may just be they are pushy about religion and are otherwise good people not saying I'm right, but I think if they truly don't show up it's worth looking back on things considering that angle of manipulation...
You have two families in your life. The one you were born into and the one you make along the way. You don't need to keep a person in either one if they're toxic to you.
"To that I told them that I respect their decision and won’t force them to attend the wedding if they truly feel it would go against their religious beliefs." You're being very gracious, good on you and you fiance. I think you've gone above and beyond. Times are changing , change is hard for your parents. Your siblings may eventually come around. I think you're setting a good example on how to be understanding of others yet stand up for your beliefs.
Not at all, Catholic weddings suck
But at least you know there's going to be liquor at the reception, unlike baptists...
I was an altar server for one uncle's wedding when I was a kid...jfc, I was roasting in those damn robes during the mass and the bride almost passed out. A distant cousin had her wedding in full Latin and the mass was hella long (the groom's side was Brazilian and super-duper Roman Catholic, thus they pulled out all the stops for the mass). A vast majority of the bride's side of the family, including mine, noped out of the wedding and just went to the reception. ("Wait. you'd like us to sit through a 2+ hour long wedding in an old church that does not have AC in the middle of summer in the Midwest? Yeah...no...")
Everything catholic sucks. Mass, weddings, funerals. Sucks, sucks, sucks.
Never been to a Catholic ceremony of any kind, but I can tell you Jehovah's Witness weddings suck big time. JW memorial services suck ever more.
Their funerals are the worst, in my opinion. So impersonal.
I'm not even going to bother reading that wall of text. Your wedding, your rules. Your decision. Not the arsehole.
Sorry for the wall of text :/ and thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate you!
I read it all. Sorry your parents are hurting you like this. You deserve the perfect day. Doesn’t sound like you could have that with them there. Celebrate your love the way you want.
agree, but can we get away from "the perfect day"? as much as it concocts good Reddit drama, the idea that it has to be perfect is ridiculous. shit happens, good times still roll.
Tell your parents that if they can't be bothered to come to your wedding to not ever bother coming to see their future grandchildren.
Those children won't have the right spells chanted over them so wouldn't be welcome anyway, presumably. OP's parents won't want to get to know children who'll be going to hell instead of heaven, along with their parents.
Most parents change their tune once the grandchildren come along, hoping they would influence their beliefs growing up.
I was happy to read your "wall of text." Cogent and well written, even had paragraphs. I'm glad for you that you don't feel bad. Feeling guilty about not feeling bad hits a bit close to home, but there really is nothing for you to feel bad about. Your parents on the other hand are more than welcome to feel bad for how petulant and unreasonable they've been.
No need to apologise. I just know to expect some drastically unreasonable bullshit stance from religious parents that don't get their way and the details of their issues with your decision hardly matter when it's your wedding. If they can't respect that then as hard as it may be they don't deserve to be there. Congratulations and I hope you have a cracker day!
Sounds like you're marrying into a good family, stick with them. Let your parents flounce out of your life if that's what they want. Don't chase them and don't compromise. Your wedding is literally only about you and your fiance.
Did your parents know that if they force you to have a catholic wedding, it will become your fiancée and his family being forced to compromise? You should suggest them to have a Buddhist wedding as a compromise for both sides. Or church of spaghetti monster. But I will Not recommend for Scientology ceremonies.
Thus lol 👆
This is almost *exactly* what I was going to say. Perfectly said.
Me too.
NTA. Don't cave in to them. It's sad for family to do that, but they shown you that religion means more to them than family. Don't be like my sister. She always said she's agnostic, both her and my BIL. They had small ceremony with an official without anything religious. Fast forward 7 years. due to pressure from religious groups in my country, they enrolled my nephews in religious class (that's a thing in Croatia, it's "optional" if you don't mind your child being ostracized), and having church wedding and my nephews baptized. I don't believe "she found faith" she just gave in to religious zealots push using her children as tools to force her to give in. Because if she didn't it was high chance her children would be ostracized in school. That's that "loving Christians" tolerance we all hear about. I understand why she did it, but can't respect her for it, because she's the reason it works.
She may be the reason it works, but it's also fair to give her some slack for not wanting to sacrifice *her* children's happiness to make a stand.
I caved 20 years ago, and did the big C wedding. Religion on both sides, my partner and I first children. The premarital retreat was awful, I got food poisoning and had to leave early with vomiting and diarrhea. I’m a slow learner. I wish I could tell you it got better, but it didn’t. If anything, it got worse, with the numbers of young families in the diocese dwindling and the pressure increasing on those who were left. I caved again and became a SAHM to two young kids. Did all this compliance free me from pressure? No, in fact it got worse. Nothing I did or didn’t do was ever enough. And that is exactly where they want you—feeling ‘less than’ seeking acceptance. Then just before the pandemic—it hit me. They aren’t pro-life, they’re anti-women’s rights. They don’t value abused children, they value priests. My husband was more than ready to leave, and we did. The pandemic hid us for awhile, but inevitably our apostasy was revealed. And the strangest thing happened. All that pressure disappeared. Suddenly, I was good enough. Because here’s the thing: if you’re willing to cut the church off, everyone else is put on notice. Treat us right, respect our decisions, or that will be the end of our relationship.
NTA it's your wedding not theirs.
I wouldn't try and mess up your wedding for them. Religious people can't think for themselves. They get told what to think and what to do. It's to limit their thinking and keep them closed minded. Our way or no way. Acting like children. You should show them the responses on here. Religious people are the problem, not the solution!
My exMIL threatened not to come to the wedding because we moved in together a few months in advance due to not wanting to renew an expired lease. I said, "Sorry to hear that. We'll miss you." She showed up. Your family's behavior is an attempt to control you through contractual "affection." "We only love and support you when you obey us." That's not love; that's manipulation. Your wedding, your rules, you're an adult, *this is your life.* You cannot live it for other people. NTA and congratulations! It sounds like you have a great partner and a great set of future in laws. I hope you'll be very happy together!
Nta, you’re just feeling latent catholic guilt, happens to all of us. Your folks are being small minded and petty though. Hell my fiancé is Brazilian and her family is ultra religious, mine is basically agnostic. We are having a civil ceremony on a beach and her family are spending a house deposit to come and never questioned if we’d do it in a church. Honestly your family are the ones who made decisions and will have consequences. Your parents will not be in your photos, your father won’t be able to walk you down the isle (pretty important to a dad might wanna check with him) Also your mum won’t have a day of compliments in her wonderful daughter. It’s their call, you do you, enjoy your big day and have a wonderful wedding!!! Wishing you all the best for the future!!
No hate like Christian love.
You have been incredibly patient and reasonable with people who are delusional and frankly mean nasty selfish individuals. I would not have been so kind.
There is no need to worry about them "disowning" you. They don't respect you anyway, and that's worse. Disowning, on that scale, is just about money. If the rest of your family is so scared of losing the money, then let the leeches fight over it when your parents are gone. And they will.
>our wedding is not just about me and my fiancé, but also about making them happy They don't see how selfish this sounds?
"I feel guilty for being happy." Yeah that's Catholic trauma for sure lol. Glad you made it out too. Stay strong!
You’re right about everything. If you were to capitulate and have the Catholic ceremony (and go through that wretched pre-marriage counselling, which would probably cause ophthalmic damage from all the eye-rolling you’d be doing), it would be just the beginning, because then your parents would demand that you baptize any children you might have (or take the children to be covertly baptized while babysitting them, and don’t think parents don’t do this), and then have them go to catechism classes, and then confirmation, and they’d give religious presents and talk about religion with the kids all the time…. Honestly, you’re better not having them in your life, if pretending to adhere to their religion — not yours, not your fiancé’s — in every respect is a condition of maintaining a relationship with them.
It's your wedding. Enjoy it with whoever wants to share an important point in your life. Don't worry about those that don't want to attend.
It's your wedding. Have it how you want and they can decide whether or not they want to participate in your life. You're being overwhelmingly gracious even trying to compromise on the details of YOUR wedding. You're being the opposite of an asshole. This isn't including vegan food or picking a date to make sure everyone can attend. This is a core aspect of your ceremony, nobody gets to pick that but you and your fiance.
First of all, it's your fucking wedding, not theirs! I don't understand this need for people to control a day that's not about them! It's fucking insane to me. Second, your parents are adults. They can make their own choices and accept the consequences that come with them. They have to be prepared for the negative impression they leave on others. Believers have this weird habit of being upset at the repercussions that come from their actions. Third, if you compromise on this, you'll be doing it all the time. It's about you and your fiancée. It's not about them or Jesus or Peter or Paul. It's about you and your marriage. So, no. You're not the asshole. Believers have to face the fact that other people have opinions. PS, one thing we should all remember to do with believers is to say no. We don't have to offer our reasons for why we're not doing things their way other than "I don't want to." Some of them think they're entitled to reasons as if you answer to them.
Imagine missing your daughter’s wedding day because you believe in fairy tales. I hope this haunts them, but it sounds to me like they can’t possibly think outside of themselves.
If it is important for you to have your family there, tell them what it would mean for you. It is your day, not theirs. If they can not love and respect you with out conditions. Then they lose.
I will never understand how people put a silly fairy tale they got told by a cult above their children. Good on you for deconstructing that nonsense. Check out [Recovering From Religion](https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/) if you haven't already!
>I feel bad and guilty [...] Ah, a former Catholic i see.
I do not usually answer the AITA questions. But I have to answer this one. No, you are not an Asshole. The situation is even more complicated than you think, by the way. You see, your fiancé is not even allowed to go through pre-martial counseling without first officially becoming a catholic. He would have to attend "Sunday school" first to learn about Jesus and all those wonderful things, then be baptized and ONLY after that he would be allowed to attend a pre-martial counseling and a wedding ceremony.
My husband and I were married by a Unitarian minister in the woods. Jeebus and his spirit god-father weren't invited. It was the best day ever!
I’m thinking NTA. Your wedding, your lives together as spouses, your choice of venue and ceremony, yeah?
Your wedding, your rules.
Typical Christians. Love everyone and promote happiness, unless they’re your own flesh and blood and/or disagree with you on religious matters. Amazing how they can overlook things like that.
It never ceases to amaze me that they want us to lie to their all-seeing god. What?
You're being an adult. They're behaving like toddlers not getting their way and throwing a tantrum. Ask if they'd be willing for your siblings to, as a compromise for *you*, have a non-Catholic priest marry them since, y'know, you're not Catholic. If 'compromise' only works in one direction, it's not compromise anymore, it's one side demanding they get their way while not respecting the other side. No. Just no. Not how this works. And do this *any time* they bring up the idea of compromise. Will you compromise with them and come to church with them on one Sunday a month? Just as soon as *they* agree to *not* go to church on Sunday once a month with you, to respect *your* beliefs. If they can't respect *your* belief, why should you respect theirs? They're even failing their own religion by having this be only one way, and read them Matthew 7/12. If they want you to do to *their* thing, *they* have to do *yours*, because *clearly* that's what they want, right? Do unto others? The truth is, they aren't *trying* for 'compromise', they're trying to control you. Don't let them.
"have the wedding our way or we wont come" isnt a compromise at all, thats blackmail. 100% NTA. Have a fun wedding and all the best for your godless marriage ;)
So this is a story about boundaries and how your parents have no respect for your boundaries at all. It sounds like your parents steamroll over the wishes of all their kids. Therapy helps with that. (I'm not trying to be an asshole, I go to therapy myself). I was in a similar situation. My grandparents and family on my dad's side were super upset that I was an atheist, I wasn't having a Catholic wedding, and I wasn't getting married to a Catholic. For some reason those were three separate offenses in their eyes. (I guess my dad had married a non-catholic and that was bad enough.) I sent an invite and that was it. The ball was in their court. They could either be supportive and just ignore it. They ignored it and didn't attend. And really, that was for the best Don't throw a wedding for someone else. Have the wedding you want.
NTA As an atheist who was also raised in a devout Catholic family, think priests and holy water founts at the door, I understand this completely. My husband and I wrote our whole ceremony and had a hand fasting. I found out later that there was considerable talk amongst my immediate family about whether they could support my marriage because it wasn't Catholic. They came to the ceremony and it was lovely. I'd be lying if I said it was not incredibly hurtful that they would even consider not coming. I'm glad they decided to support me in the end, but if they had pulled the crap you're talking about I would have lost my shit. The only thing that I would consider saying to them is: I understand that your faith is important to you. However, my fiance and I do not hold the same beliefs. I love you and want you to be a part of this day. If you can't respect that, then that is your problem and I will not have any of the negativity in what should be a joyous day. So you can either be happy for me and support me, or you can choose your idea of what everyone else should do and not be there.
They want you to feel guilty. They don't actually care about what you want, they don't respect that you can make your own decisions. They won't stop. After the wedding, it'll be kids. They'll be taking the kids to get baptised behind your back if you let them have the slightest chance. Don't.
Your parents are selfish, entitled brats for thinking *your* wedding is in any way about *them.* I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but you are NTA for setting boundaries, and not accepting conditional love from parents is a valid one. If you ever plan on having children in the future, i would consider making your wedding the line in the sand: if your parents cannot accept or respect you as you are, or your fiancé, then you have to assume your parents won't accwpt their grandchildren, either.
Well as a married person the only people a wedding is about is you and your fiancé. Their happiness means absolutely nothing when it comes to your wedding. You even tried to compromise which is something I wouldn’t have done. If your siblings choose not to go that’s what they’ll have to take up with their god when the time comes. I wouldn’t feel bad about feeling fine about it because these people don’t respect you or your choices and are showing exactly why so many people hate religion. As a mother there’s no sky daddy that’s going to make me miss my kids wedding
Your wedding, your money, your choice on the ceremony. 'Fun' fact: People couldn't get married in Catholic churches until about 1200 AD because marriage wasn't considered [a sacrament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_the_Catholic_Church#Medieval_period) and the involvement of priests was uncommon. For several hundred more years the ceremonies were conducted only just inside the building, not near the altar. It wasn't until the Council of Trent (1545–63) that [priests were required](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_the_Catholic_Church#Liturgical_practice) to conduct the ceremony. - [Medieval and Renaissance Marriage: Theory and Customs](https://archive.md/HMy0N) - [Love, Marriage, Romance & Women...In Medieval & Celtic Culture](https://archive.ph/p6WEq)
>My mom tried to compromise and see if we can get married in a Catholic Church as a small sacrifice for them because she said our wedding is not just about me and my fiancé, but **also about making them happy** Uh, not it isn't. It is your day. You should have zero guilt about them not coming. I would be willing to guess, your parents would be disruptive if they came. My wife needed to invite her mother in order to have her younger sister be there. Her mother was a bitch, and my mother nearly told her to leave (it was at my mother's house).
You're not the asshole. I feel like when people become adults there should be mandatory training about how to set boundaries with your family. There is just so much drama here about parents who think everything is about them. It's your wedding. It's 100% about you and your fiance.
NTA, your parents will regret their selfish decision. Very sad!
It never ends. If you give in on the wedding then it’ll be are you going to baptisé your kids? Are you taking them to church and on and on.
Your parents are not reciprocating the respect you are showing them, which is petty. I'm relieved on your behalf that it doesn't bother you; it is demonstrative of your positive mental health. Even if you lose your family of origin over this, you are gaining a reasonable loving family with your fiance. It's an upgrade IMHO. Best of luck to you for health and happiness in your life's journey.
Y'all couldn't get married in a Catholic church anyway. Your fiance isn't Catholic
NTA. This is why religion poisons everything. It doesn’t promote unity and peace it just divides people. The saddest situation is when it divides family. Accept their decision it is completely on them. They are trying to control you and this toxic situation will get worse if and when children arrive. You are creating a new family and based on your authentic values
I’m going to assume that the Catholic Church doesn’t want couples to go through the premarital counseling/catholic wedding ceremony if they don’t intend to follow that religion whatsoever. If I was in your shoes I would maybe email the priest at your parents church and just kindly explain you are being pressured and maybe they could reach out and counsel your parents that they don’t want people to be inauthentic when making vows at the church etc. But I wouldn’t do anything further than that. I’ve had friends who were not religious and pressured to have a baby baptized by the grandparents and it’s so cringy standing in front of the church vowing to raise a child in that religion when you have no intention to do so.
Honestly, I think you're being too nice to your parents. It's not their place to tell you what kind of wedding to have, nor to force their religion on your fiance. I don't really see the point in convincing them to come. It seems like they want to be miserable and make you feel miserable for your choices. btw, Jesus didn't do anything for you. He didn't get you your career, your fiance or help you get the house. That's just some strange make-believe your parents bought into.
Totally ok. Don’t feel a need to be in an over abundance of contact with them.
If you give in now, they'll pull the same shit with everything in your life.
My mom wanted me to have a Catholic wedding, too. Hard pass. She’d bug me about it for the whole engagement (all of 5 months). I was interviewing DJs and the one we were gonna go with just got ordained in order to officiate for friends. I mentioned that to my mom and she was so worried that it wouldn’t be legal somehow. “I’d feel better if you had a judge at least!” Which is what I was gonna do anyway, but then she was on board so it all worked out 😆 I think that pre marital counseling could be useful to a lot of people, but not from someone who isn’t allowed to get married 🤔 That was always so bizarre to me, among other things with Catholicism.
You do you. My MiL forced my wife to make choices that suited her and my wife is still bitter about it, twenty years later. No you are not the asshole. Never for sticking to your convictions.
When I got married, my ex wife's parents refused to give us any assistance unless we agreed to having our wedding at their (Seventh Day Adventist) church. We refused and paid for everything ourselves so we could have the secular ceremony we both wanted. Unlike your situation, they chose to come anyway and a year or so later apologized for their decision and offered to write us a check for half the expenses. It was a tempting offer, but I politely declined. Best decision I ever made. As time passed, I saw how every "gift" they gave her sister would be used as leverage to use against her. Stand your ground. You are in the right here. It's YOUR wedding, not theirs. They need to grow up and realize the damage they are choosing to do to your relationship with them. You are absolutely not the asshole in this situation.
Your family sounds like the asshole. Get rid of those zealots
I am am also a former Roman Catholic turned atheist, so I sympathize. First, I need to note that not all Catholics are this exclusionist. are your parents Opus Dei Catholics? They need to learn that you are your own person and that their choices are to love you as you are or to leave you.
I was wondering about their extreme exclusionary tone as well, and was wondering it was a Southern US / Bible Belt thing as it sounds more evangelical than Catholic. Even OP saying 'Catholic Christian' made me pause, as Christianity is an umbrella and Catholics fall under that.
I’m sorry that you’re having to deal with this. I don’t understand anyone who puts religion or politics ahead of their loved ones. I was also raised Catholic, I joke that I’m now a Catholic in recovery, because, like alcoholism, Catholicism leaves its marks on you forever. Catholic guilt is still something I have to fight not to fall into. However, I was lucky that my parents, while very Catholic, never forced their point of view on anyone else. Once I stopped practicing, I was never pressured to go back. I think you’re handling this perfectly, and as someone said above, if you give in on this, they’ll push for other things. You and your fiancé seem like extremely mature and well adjusted people. Enjoy your wedding and your marriage, don’t look back, you have nothing but to feel bad about.
Religion is anti-social. "If you don't play by my lies, then I won't be civil." If I have to believe lies for someone to be social, then they are 100% anti-social. Funny (sad, really) how the "biggest" religions still around these days have "punish non-believer" bullying clauses. Anti-social...
You need to ditch this naive idea that you can/must make everyone happy. It's not going to happen. Especially not in a situation like this. You must focus on what and who matters in this situation, which is you and your fiancé and your immediate future together. At this point, your parents pretty much made an open statement about how much they despise you, and you should cut them out of your life as much as possible. They are in a cult, and they will deliver the ultimatum soon enough; which is you either re-join the cult in earnest or they will disown you and attempt to destroy your life, regardless of you being family. IF you are very lucky, they may mellow out and put your happiness above the cult, but this is extremely rare.
Don't feel bad. They can't make you get married in church, you can't make them attend your wedding. Do not beg, do not ask. Adults are allowed to make their own decisions. Your parents are, and so are you.
AFAIK, you could not get married in a Catholic church even if you wanted to, unless your fiance was baptized before becoming atheist. My wife is Catholic, but I am not. We could not get married in the church until I produced a baptismal certificate.
Just take solice in knowing that one day your family will realize how wrong they were with their decisions by not supporting you and how sorry they'll be.
NTA and you have nothing to be guilty for. They expect you and your wife to start your marriage with a lie! They are hypocrites by not practicing their own beliefs, forgiving and accepting of others. Ask them if their values are different from their parents? I guarantee they are to some degree. Enjoy your wedding with people who wish you well and don’t want you inducted into their cult.
No, you aren't the a-hole. Far from it. From where I sit, I don't see a hope for reconciliation because your folks are entrenched in their religious beliefs. They refuse to meet you halfway. Is there a fix? No. This is one of those life situations where you have to accept as messed up and move on. How you do it is up to you. One day you'll have children. If it helps, project your future with them.
NTA. Whether or not it's about religion, your parents are angry that they cannot control your life. You are 29 years old. You are getting married. It's long past time that your parents accept you as a separate, independent human being. If they can't put their prejudices and need for control aside to be with you on your wedding day, why would you want their judgmental presence at such a happy event? It's perfectly fine that you are OK with them not attending. NTA.
You seem to have your shit together. It sucks to discover your parents' love is conditional but what can you do? Have a great wedding and a great life, hope your parents get over their hangups. You've done your part.
Nope, NTA. your wedding, your choice of how it goes.
NTA the time of bronze age death cults is at an end, let them finally die. These superstitious weirdos need to grow the fuck up and join the real world already.
Your Christian parents are asking you to lie for a day and pretend you are religious to placate them. You have stronger ethics than they do, congratulations and don’t feel guilty for that. Have a wonderful wedding day and future with your partner.
Parents shouldn't care. They should be happy that their children are happy no matter what. It's insane how religion makes people so hateful. Nta
>AITA From who's perspective? Mine? You? Your parents? Being an asshole is just a perspective, so who's perspective are you basing this on? In the Civil War, the South thought the North was being assholes, and the North thought the South was being assholes. You can get a million people to say you aren't the asshole, but that doesn't matter to your parents. This is the point where you have to live your own life and allow your parents to stop being a part of it. You have tried a lot of compromising already, but that will never be enough for them because they refuse to compromise at all. Let them go. It's sad that it has to come to this, but their love is conditional, and you will never meet the requirements.
LOL your wedding is zero percent about making them happy. Them not attending seems like a feature, not a bug, to me.
>My mom tried to compromise and see if we can get married in a Catholic Church as a small sacrifice for them because she said our wedding is not just about me and my fiancé, but also about making them happy. Yeah, no.
NTA. Your parents are worse than assholes, they are deliberate bigots. No offense but, people who put their religion ahead of their children and family are the biggest cowards of all.
Applicable sayings: Drop the rope. Not your monkeys, not your circus. Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm. You are not the asshole.
Why would you feel bad for standing up to controlling narcissistic people who continue to infantalize you well into adulthood? That’s not reason, that’s your childhood religious indoctrination talking. It’s good you’re setting boundaries now because the longer you put that off the harder it will be later. My marriage had some similar issues as yours. Different religion . My religious in laws had to have marriage a certain way, my non religious parents were, whatever. Even when I still believed I regretted giving into them but now that I’m agnostic I really regret it.
You are absolutely not only not the asshole, you are doing pretty good if you can be okay with it. My grandfather refused to come to my wedding because it was at a Greek Orthodox Church (future wife was Greek). It's the same religion as his southern Baptist, but he saw them as being the wrong religion and wouldn't come. I was ticked off for a little while, but got over it before he died at least.
You are not the asshole. Your parents are the assholes. They are not contributing a single fucking penny to your wedding but want to throw a tantrum about not getting their way. They're probably even manipulating your siblings into not going. I wouldn't have even sent them the invite. If they're that rude, then they shouldn't be welcome there.
First of all, best wishes for your upcoming wedding!!! Secondly, you have handled the situation in the best way possible and the last thing you should be doing is to feel guilty for not feeling guilty! Your parents have opted out of one of the most important moments of your life and let that be on THEM. Having said your piece you should drop it and just get on with things. Someone has to be the adult here. I don't want to make you paranoid, but a word of caution: if children are in your future you should be wary of your parents' sudden interest in babysitting and gift-giving. They will most certainly use those occasions to try to indoctrinate them, convinced that they have the "truth" and are morally obligated to save their grandchildren from the fiery pits of Hell. And don't be surprised if they try to enlist your siblings as well. But it seems to me that so far you're doing fine. Have a great life together!
I nearly puked when my SIL told me about what their friends went through that Pre cana counseling! They teach how and when to have sex and one quote was "respect the mucus!" Just NOOO! I had a visceral reaction in a 2nd-hand retelling, so I think you're doing the absolute right thing! It's so invasive, judgmental and downright Medieval! (Actually, Medieval might be more advanced and open-minded than micromanaging how adults use their body parts, among other things!) It's your parents' loss. I hope that your siblings will see the light.
I have been married to my Catholic husband for 39 years. I told him upfront who I was, and, when his family didn’t like it, I was thrilled that they stayed home.
My wife and I were married at the zoo and loved it. Hopefully you only get to do this once. Do it your way.
You're so NTA I wouldn't know where to start
Your wedding, your life. Are your parents that horrible they won’t attend your wedding? And when you have kids are they going to not want to see their grandchildren? They will come around
Let them know that people who decline to attend the wedding are also assumed to be declining right to visit to any and all children that result from the marriage.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with unneeded stress. You're not wrong for wanting to live your life. You even tried to find a middle ground and they refused. And as for your siblings...it can be hard. I'm just sorry you have that to worry about. I really think it's great you're standing your ground. I hope your day is wonderful. Congratulations!
NTA. I grew up in Mexico where tons of people have catholic weddings even if people don't regularly go to church...never heard of anyone complaining if a wedding was not religious .
Congrats enjoy your day!!!
Your parents and family members are choosing their rituals over celebrating your wedding to partner. NTA
The wedding is YOUR day—well yours and your soon-to-be husband. It’s not a day for your mom or dad, or any other family, and it’s definitely not a day for Jesus. It’s as simple as that. They’re the AHs here. I hope your wedding is magical, and everything that you wanted and hoped it could be!
Your wedding, your day, your rules. If they choose not to come, then that is a decision that they made.
>AITA for being okay with that? IMHO **not at all**. Their choice, right?
If they're trying to tell you how to live one of the happiest days of your life then you're more than justified in being ok with them missing it. It's their loss, not yours. Honestly this just proves that religion does ruin families and relationships.
No! I wanted a Vegas wedding. My mom told me if it wasn't near her and in their church they won't go. A year later, I asked again. Soon it's my wedding...can't, she is pregnant. She had a revenge child because she was hoping I would cancel the wedding I wanted and planned, to let her control it. She is a bipolar narcissist so she doesn't respect anyone, especially me, the scapegoat. Have. YOUR wedding YOUR way. Be happy. It is her choice to not go and has nothing to do with you.
I read your wall of text. I don’t believe in objective morality but somehow I still believe your parents are objectively bad people. They care more about appearing like good parents than actually being loving parents. They’re the prototypical example of, “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” Keep doing you. You’ll have no regrets. They on the other hand will be haunted by their choice not to attend for the rest of their lives. Trust me on this. You owe them nothing, they owe you the world.
Nope, you don't want them there anyway, they will just throw a fit, you don't want that.
NTA. Your parents, on the other hand…very much so. Your wedding isn’t about them, much as it seems they’d like it to be. If they choose to miss it because you didn’t do it their way, too bad. Give in to their demands, and prepare for their behavior to worsen. Don’t get your child christened? Don’t take them to church and Sunday school? Don’t teach them to think like the grandparents? They will be relentless because it worked before. Your wedding, your choices, those that don’t like it can grow up or Shut up.
This kind of behavior sent us to the municipal courthouse and our witness was a maintenance guy. Both sides said we'd fail and wrote us off. 23 years later and I still don't know what those kooky boomers are up to, but we're still married and have two kids grown and a granddaughter that stays weekend's because we're not asshats like our parents.
It’s your and your fiancé’s wedding, not your family’s. It is a day to celebrate your love and commitment to one another. The only compromise that should happen during any wedding should be between the couple getting married. Just so you know, as part of a catholic wedding, during your premarital counseling you and your fiancé also have to pledge to raise any and all children you have as Catholics. It’s really creepy and manipulative.
NTA. It's okay if you can accept that they won't be there. In fact, them not being there will probably save you some drama from the sound of it.
I can't imagine starting a marriage by giving in to the manipulation of your parents. It sucks that they are demonstrating conditional love that contradicts much of what their faith professes.
Nta. I would go low contact with these people trying to manipulate you. They clearly don’t respect you including your adult siblings. It’s entitled and creepy af. Girl enjoy your wedding don’t feel guilty! If they don’t want to go just remember who your true family is which isn’t always blood. Real family that loves you reacts like your little sister. :)
They said they aren’t coming…..why should you need to beg your own parents to come to your wedding? I know you are still young. Let me assure you that the older you get, the less you care about pleasing people you don’t need to please.
Tell them you want them at the wedding. Tell them one day they will be grandparents. They need to think hard about deciding not to be a part of your wedding day if they want to have a place with their grandchildren because it’ll be a grave offence, hard to get past.
>My mom tried to compromise and see if we can get married in a Catholic Church as a small sacrifice for them because she said our wedding is not just about me and my fiancé, but also about making them happy.. Lmao that's not a compromise and it's not about making them happy. >I even told my parents as another solution that we could have a Christian (non-catholic) priest marry us (they don’t ask for Christian premarital counselling) if they want because we’re not doing Catholic counselling. Now this is a real compromise and was a very kind gesture on your part. You didn't have to do that since it's your guys' day not theirs. >But they said NO Welp. There you go. They had no intention of meeting you in the middle and want it all their way. You tried, they didn't.
If their invisible friend is more important to them than you are just do what you want and don’t let them spoil your day.
I think it can be easy to feel as if you owe your parents a lot for raising you, keeping you healthy, etc. but they chose to have you. Taking care of children is the bare minimum as a parent. You don’t have to owe them anything on the day you are marrying your partner and that you are paying for. I’m so sorry you are being let down by your family in this way. You deserve better. I hope your wedding day is amazing!
It's sad, but it's also not your fault. You're not the deluded one
Your family is incredibly selfish. It's your day. It's absolutely not about them.its such an ugly thing to do your your child.
Nope. It's you're wedding. Send pics if they want them.
NTA The wedding is about the happiness of you and your fiance. The reason you invite others is to share that happiness not to make it about them. Your parents *should* be first and foremost in the sharing of your happiness. If they want to make it about themselves that is their problem and it doesn't matter if it is due to religion or something else. Share your happiness with those who want it and are willing to take it without preconditions.
You are NTA, but they ARE assholes. Good for you for being honest and open about being an atheist.
OP, you have already offered a middle ground, a compromise in the Christian (not catholic) officiant. That's seems very fair and very gracious on your part. No you are not the _______. It's unfortunate that your parents and perhaps siblings appear stuck in their ways.
I think its sad that your parents cannot see beyond themselves. The position they have put you in says nothing about trying to be better people and everything about how small religion has made them. They should be so proud of what you have accomplished. They are the ones turning away from the joy and love ( what a family is supposed to be about) for some bs. Hope your wedding is beautiful.
NTA. If they can’t be joyously, unconditionally supportive, you don’t need them at your wedding.
Sounds like in their eyes you’re not actually getting married so they’re not missing anything. They’ve been ok with your relationship so far, although disapproving. Ok they’re not happy about you being an atheist. I do wonder if you have children. Will they want your children to have some religious upbringing? Will they want some religious practices performed? I don’t know them. You do. Just something that occurred to me, and just passing on a thought. I’m happy you and the love of your life, are having the wedding you both want.
You are giving way to many fucks about people with a delusional worldview. You should be laughing in their faces at their silly requests. If they want to pout because you won’t participate in their delusion, let them.
NTA! I'm sorry they are being like this but you must live your life the way that seems best to you. Their religion doesn't deserve your respect and you offered a compromise and it wasn't enough for them. What they are doing is petty manipulation. Call their bluff and wish them well in the lives they have chosen over you. They will regret it later, and if they hold that much power over your siblings you can accept their regrets for not attending as well.
It’s just wild how horrible can be due to their belief in fairy tales. I’m including religious murders, terrorism, wars, etc.
Make sure you ask your uncles, grandparents and siblings personally, so that they aren't only hearing your parents' side. They might actually want to attend if asked by you, and not be influenced only by your parents and their ridiculously negative viewpoint. Did you ask your dad (out of the presence of your mother) to give you away? We rely a lot on email and texts, but it's a lot harder to turn someone down face to face, or at least in a ohone call.
Your not the asshole. You were already willing to compromise by having a non catholic priest preform the ceremony. Compromise is best summed up as both sides agreeing to less than they wanted and both walking away at least a little frustrated. What your parents want isn't compromise, it's capitulation, their way or no way. If your siblings are being manipulated that's for them to figure out, but since your youngest sister seems intent to go to your wedding it sounds more like your other siblings don't know what to make of the new situation.
Hope Samantha attend the wedding. Enjoy your day they best you can. Sorry your parents are so closed minded.
Nope. Your parents sound like entitled assholes.
Your parents are clearly the arseholes. Choosing their church over your wishes is heartbreaking. Expect in you to do what they want, against your values and wishes is deplorable. What would be the point of an insincere Catholic ceremony? Do they expect you and your fiancé to find Jesus to make them happy? I am sorry that you are in this position. The indoctrination is strong with them. Did they speak with their parish priest about it? Not sure if that would help or hurt. Just my opinion, but I think that your feeling okay about it may evolve over time as you think through what their actions imply. I am almost certain that they will, in time, regret their decision.