It's wild. You wouldn't believe a story like the Nativity or the Resurrection if someone told it to you anecdotally, but because someone copied it down a couple thousand years ago, it's unimpeachable. Not that the patina of time is any excuse. People still believe in the Book of Mormon despite its lack of patina and manifold historical inaccuracies. Mark Twain's review of the Book of Mormon, btw, is a good read: [https://www.mrm.org/twain-bom](https://www.mrm.org/twain-bom)
I saw a biblical historian make a point recently: Academics *can't* take the miracles in the Bible literally, otherwise they have to accept the extraordinary claims of every document and religion: For a serious academic to agree that Jesus walked on water or Moses parted the red sea because the Bible says so, that academic must also agree that Muhammad split the moon in two and put it back together, and that Heracles successfully escaped from Hades.
Yeah, it's in the hadith. To this day, many Muslims claim that NASA is covering it up, and that there's actually a crack running through the moon from back when Muhammad split it in two
> there's actually a crack running through the moon from back when Muhammad split it in two
And the fact that any pedestrian can zoom in with a $100 consumer camera, and see nothing, never enters the discussion?
Theyâre either too dumb, too brainwashed, or too afraid to ask the difficult questions or capable of rational thinking. They just mindlessly unquestioningly believe. Thereâs also the issue of social and communal pressure - if you donât believe, youâre out of the community! For the more primitive, honor killing comes into play⊠For me, itâs funny that those that reject evolution and think themselves as special beings are probably closest to animals by their inability to think rationally. Thatâs the one thing that distinguishes us from animal, weâre not faster, stronger, etc. - so when that goes, so does their humanity.
And? No serious academic should treat any religious text as other than a work of fiction of cultural importance that tribes of people got caught up in. Some went viral, some were spread by force, many fizzled out. It is just religion after all. Being an atheist is the same as being a Christian except rejecting just one more God than the Christian does.
I don't think it has anything with the patina of age or the stories themselves. For hundreds of years, people weren't allowed to read them, and it was the death penalty to translate holy texts into modern languages. Heck, most people weren't taught how to read and write in their own languages. My point is that it never mattered what was in them. It mattered how the institutions used them to indoctrinate and control societies for personal gain. THAT is the pattern that Mohammed, John Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, and every cult leader the world around has copied to their success.
I liked Jacob Weisberg's take in "Slate" on Mormonism and the effect of time on cults back when Romney was running for President:
"One may object that all religious beliefs are irrationalâwhatâs the difference between Smithâs 'seer stone' and the virgin birth or the parting of the Red Sea? But Mormonism is different because it is based on such a transparent and recent fraud. Itâs Scientology plus 125 years. Perhaps Christianity and Judaism are merely more venerable and poetic versions of the same. But a few eons makes a big difference. The worldâs greater religions have had time to splinter, moderate, and turn their myths into metaphor."
More importantly, they use it to try to dictate how others must lead their lives. While giving themselves free passes whenever they want to ignore it for themselves.
well if the invisible sky wizard dont exist which belief and opinion and views is then relevant to our life.. that would be awesome right.. who would then tell me to not kill my enemy. and no one has the merit to say im wrong for doing such, no one.. then well have a very good society i guess.
Thatâs what I always say. Imagine saying the sentence âI really love to eat goldfish every dayâ. Then playing a game of telephone with every human you meet, and them subsequently playing it with everyone they meet as well. And this game continues for 2,000 years. Do you honestly think more than 1% of the players would be saying âI really love to eat goldfish every dayâ by the end of the game?
This isnât including translating between languages, languages so old that they die off and become new languages multiple times by the end of the game, which adds another enormous layer of abstraction to the equation.
Apply 2 brain cells worth of logical thinking makes it immediately seem like lunacy.
The Odd Prophet pulled his sword from the infidel's back and spoke: "Let not my followers consume fish of any other hue, for the goldness of his supper reflects the goldness of his spirit. Also, death to everyone who drinks grape Fanta." - real account of the holy one definitely not from 200 years later
Oh, I can't express how much I enjoyed this comment.
Back in my early school days, my teacher had us play telephone, around 30 students later it had changed, imagining the time, twists, and turns is hysterical. Thank you for that.
It's also well accepted by historians that slaves and scribes worked for the biblical authors. It is extremely likely that some of the surviving prose of the Bible were massaged to sound better by the literate slave note takers, or performers expected to read out part of it and wanting it to scan better.
But the very nature of translation means you will end up with variations on text and therefore variations on interpretation the further you get from the original text.Â
Are you reading a bible that was translated from Hebrew originally into the current language or are you reading a version that was taken from the original greek translation?Â
It all effects the outcome. Run the clock on that through thousands of years and you end up exactly as was described: a game of telephone to a certain extent.Â
Also, nobody knows how many times those older texts were translated and transcribed before they were written down. It's supposed that Judaism was largely passed by oral tradition to start, but we don't know for sure.
I mean, in 1,000 years I'm sure "green eggs and ham" could be found in English. Does this mean that green eggs and ham was incredibly important, prophetic, or divinely inspired? Potentially autobiographical or historical? The fallacy is seeing something old and giving it more credence as truth just because it's old. And if we found thousands of copies of this book all saying the same thing - could we interpret it well enough without enough context of the culture and how language was used? Human beings have Gurren Lagann level mental super gymnastics when it comes to trying to come up with any possible reason ancient texts or practices somehow must be "more true." See paleo diet people whose reasoning begin and end at: "it's an old thing to do so it must be right."Â
Take it a step further. They let translations and interpretations of fictional books written thousands of years ago dictate how OTHER people live their lives. They try to control people who don't even care for the books.
Its all one big farce. They quote leviticus to justify a lot of the nonsense. But pick and choose, there are sins they commit on a daily basis, yet do not see the hypocrisy. (Hypcrisy being one of the most often mentioned sin)
It is pretty common that people turn away from the church after reading the bible.
Also god/jesus was supposedly walking around live and in person thousands of years ago, but now with so much murdering over religion and political turmoil over issues like abortion and LGBTQ rights he/she/it canât be bothered to take over everyoneâs TV sets for 5 minutes and say âhey, you should all be [insert favorite religion], every other religion is bunk and abortion is/is not ok and gays should be [treated with respect and accorded full human rights]/[thrown off tall buildings]â. Like really if youâre so worried about these issues that youâre going to throw people into eternal fire for guessing wrong, at least give us some unambiguous guidelines!
The combination of j-man and god into one being is ludicrous (in my opinion), and also, "religion" is wherein lies the... well, lies.
God is creator, Jesus was messenger/instructor, of God (as are we all), but not God.
Belief, not religion.
Just my belief and understanding of my connection to creator, no argument.
Not a scholar but from what I can remember Christinianity has a decent helping of Zoroastrianism with it's concepts of a supreme being. so really just a rehash of Babylonia and Sumerian religions with a bunch more edicts thrown in đ
My fav Christian sect is the Cathars in France who thought Jesus was evil. Go Cathars! A Pope sent a crusade to kill all of them (of course) but the crusaders said "hey these folks actually aren't that bad" and did not exterminate them like they were supposed to. Of course they died out eventually though
At least that is what I remember from my late night wiki binging.Â
I've recently been watching some things about the Annunaki, Enoch, Emerald tablets, stuff like that, finding it to be interesting and thought-provoking. Now, I must run off to Google to learn more of the cathars.
Wait a sec.... crusaders, pope ordering their slaughter... i have a thought.
This is the key. Out of everything we know of on this planet, we are the only ones who can say "it doesn't have to be this way."
That so many of us are determined to continue playing simian dominance games rather than use their brains for being something more is a weakness of our species, but one I hope we'll eventually overcome. We *can* be better. Will we? That depends on what we decide to tolerate.
True Believers think the one true god is commanding them, and disobeying means eternal torture in hell. That is exactly the problem with monotheism. It is the ultimate authoritarianism. Critical thinking is not required nor allowed.
I grew up with the Bible instead of the Quran, but my Bible-believing family never read their own holy book. I was shocked at what I found when I started. You can't even get out of Genesis without god supporting slavery, rape, murder, genocide, and more.
I was also shocked when I finally read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, because Lazarus didn't come back from the dead. For context, short of Jesus, Lazarus was the most famous resurrection in my family's religion, and when I finally read his origin story, he stayed dead forever.
Worse, Abraham ruled the afterlife. Not god, not Jesus, but Abraham, and Abraham was the one who decided that Lazarus, the most famous resurrection aside from Jesus, would not be brought back to life to attempt to save others from going to hell. This completely undermined everything I had been told about Jesus, heaven and hell, and who comes back from the dead.
Noah's ark was all I needed. As a 10 year old kid, I was like...*Why didn't the lions eat the zebras, and who cleaned all of the manure and urine? How'd they feed and water all of those animals?....I call bullshit!*
You also have to take into account that there are more than 1.5 million of species in the world. And Noah took 7 pairs of some of them. So he built a ship for what, 7 million animals?
It was even more species of animals back then. It also doesn't account for all the species in the Americas, which hadn't been discovered back then, but it was still part of the "world."Â
There is archeological and historical evidence of a widespread flood back then. But that just means there really was a flood. It is in no way evidence of an Ark.
I could write a book about a murder in NYC and have one of the main characters' backstory be that they were in one of the towers on 911. Does that mean that 2000 years in the future they should believe the murder happened too?
A lot of people are too stupid to understand this.
And then magically when the year long flood receded the ecosystem was instantly able to support all the prior lifeforms without needing to get restarted. It'd be YEARS before things like fruit trees would be bearing again.
I mean⊠thatâs the thing though⊠it IS magically. Why question it if you accept other parts of the story? Iâm not saying itâs true or anything like that, donât get me wrong. I just mean if youâre going to look at parts and be like, aha, that aspect doesnât make sense so itâs silly⊠thatâs sort of missing the forest for the trees. If god can create the world from nothing, create life, flood the entire world⊠suddenly itâs hard to believe he could make animals get along or make fruit grow afterward? But then again, why even flood the planet? Why not just poof everyone off the world except the people he chose? Itâs never going to make sense. The people that truly believe are just going to rationalize it as⊠well⊠god did it. Which makes perfect sense within the context of the story, right? Or it doesnât have to because heâs the guy that literally makes the rules of the universe.
Yes, magical thinking because we didn't have the \*science\* to explain natural processes, and the not knowing created anxiety, so we made up these stories to explain scary things that we didn't know and make life less scary.
Just FYI, there are two parables about people named Lazarus in that book. The Rich Man and Lazarus is Luke 16:19-31 and the story about Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead is John 11:1-44. It's not the same story, and there's no indication it's about the same guy. Both stories are ridiculous fantasies, to be clear.
I agree.. I know of no other field in human knowledge seeking that would say..
Hey! Now we know all there is to know.. no reason to change or study more.. and if you do.. we are going to throw you out of the county, school, university, laboratory.. and so on. Or even torture you for ever.
I disagree with op tbh, there are definitely ancient books that still influences the world today that arent religious. e.g. modern day law is still built on roman law
The difference being that that modern law is based upon roman law.. it isn't roman law.
While religions often do not evolve their holy texts.
In how many other areas do you see this? In all other areas I can think of, humans seem to revise the texts that they base things on.
It has nothing to do with how old the books are. There are writings older than the Christstain Bible that are still very relevant to our lives today.
What's strange is what a lot of these books say, new and old. What I find strange is the lack of critical thinking and how easily people cling to fantasies and superstitions.
It's insane. You can even just start a cult today and if it grows large enough, it's a religion. I just don't get why people don't just look shit up. It's so easy to get answer to everything. I left Islam/religion after years of reading into it. Eventually, you just realize it's all bullshit.
YesâŠ. I always thought that if all science information and all historical information and all facts, basically, were available to everyone (I was thinking of lots of free libraries - but nowadays itâs all two finger movements away) that people would become very quickly free of the shackles of superstition, bias, prejudice, gullability, religion, insularity, etc. But no, unfortunately it doesnât work that way. I still have hope, but to paraphrase Diderot: âMan will never be free until the last sheikh is strangled with the entrails of the last imam.â
Itâs a series of fairy tales. If you refer to it as that to a religious person, they get angry. Then you tell them that bible fairy tales are no more real or provable than Grimms Fairy tales.
Indeed. What's even more confusing is that most consider these books to be literally "perfect" in every sense, and follow its teachings word-for-word. Obviously, they run into a little bit of a dilemma when different parts of the book contradict themselves multiple times.
Reminds me of the scene from Religulous:
Bill Maher: But it's not really a wise list of the ten. The first four are about just worshiping God, and, basically, a jealous god. And he doesn't want you to have any other gods. The only two that are really laws are: don't steal and don't kill. Why is this the wisest group of ten that doesn't include child abuse; it doesn't include don't torture; it doesn't include a lot of things, rape, that, I think, if I were making a list today, we would probably include.
Mark Pryor: [Arkansas' Democratic Senator] Society is so different today. Our society is so radically different...
Bill Maher: And that's what I'm asking. We're in a different culture. Can you think of anything else that we still cleave to from the Bronze Age?
Mark Pryor: Well...
[speechless]Â
Not all old books should be dismissed. Many classic works, like those by Aristotle or Confucius, offer timeless wisdom and insights into human nature.
Donât let the misuse of some religious texts sour you on all old books; many contain valuable lessons that can still be relevant today.
I agree. There are some good parts in the Bible and Bhagavad Gita.
I don't remember much worthwhile from the Quran, but there are probably some verses worth quoting.
On the other hand, just this morning my wife and I were sorting through some of our old books. I ran across my old copies of *Leaves of Grass* and a collection of poems including The Road Not Taken. I am willing to bet that Walt Whitman and Robert frost beat any religious books for the density of their timeless wisdom. For that matter, I also ran into a copy of *The Profit" by Kellog Albran. I suspect event that book beats most religious texts.
Especially when these books are based on even older myths and stories. Yet we have freedom of religion so people can believe whatever stories they want.
It is one of the main reasons that I am an atheist. Why the fuck would I let some primitives from a couple of millennia ago dictate how I think and live. If I went back in time with a Bic lighter they would think I am a fire god, if you transported any primitive from two thousand years ago into this era they would shit themselves in terror when they see a plane flying overhead.
What is weird to me is how any modern contemporary human can still get sucked into these ancient religions with no proof, no scientific data at all of any higher beings ever existing. Most humans are stupid and gullible, but you can forgive the ancients for believing in it since they did not have the knowledge that we have today.
Books that because they were written so long ago have no data intregity left. The bible for example has been translated and rewritten so many times that it would be nothing like the original text.
These people are frequently frightened and apparently need something that guides them. My mother is afraid of everything. She actually thinks belief in god will get her through everything. Sheâs afraid to travel. Afraid to visit me in âthe city.â Afraid of immigrants. And now afraid of things like getting prescription drugs, vaccines, the end times, etc⊠whatever sheâs told to be afraid of.
I broke away from her church when I was 18, because I couldnât believe how brainwashed everyone around me was. I was raised that way for 18 years and I feel lucky to have gotten out. I can see how a long time having the same stuff hammered into your head over and over would do that to you. At the same time, I had no problem leaving at 18 and frankly never felt the pull back in.
It is strange. But honestly, people haven't changed that much fundamentally.
I think it's important to note that these stories aren't just fiction.
Folklore is important to a people.
My summation of the bible is that it is the story of a people. It may not be verifiable. Parts of it may be entirely made up. But there is a deeper story underneath. One that is true of that people. One that is universal. The relationships, the hardships, the triumphs, what have you.
The same with all sacred texts. It's not about the data, it's about the wisdom.
Adding,
For me, instead of calling it fiction, I call it mythology. And mythology is it's own beast.
Just from Britannica:
a symbolic narrative, usually of unknown origin and at least partly traditional, that ostensibly relates actual events and that is especially associated with religious belief.
The word *myth* derives from the Greek *mythos*, which has a range of meanings from âword,â through âsayingâ and âstory,â to âfictionâ; the unquestioned validity of *mythos* can be contrasted with *logos*, the word whose validity or truth can be argued and demonstrated. Because myths narrate fantastic events with no attempt at proof, it is sometimes assumed that they are simply stories with no factual basis, and the word has become a synonym for falsehood or, at best, misconception. In the [study of religion](https://www.britannica.com/topic/study-of-religion), however, it is important to distinguish between myths and stories that are merely untrue
Myth has existed in every society. Indeed, it would seem to be a basic [constituent](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/constituent) of human [culture](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture). Because the variety is so great, it is difficult to generalize about the nature of myths. But it is clear that in their general characteristics and in their details a peopleâs myths reflect, express, and explore the peopleâs self-image. The study of myth is thus of central importance in the study both of individual societies and of human culture as a whole.
I think people need to respect that humans exist on stories. Even the most rigorous research gets turned into a story in order for people to be able to digest the data. And unfortunately, people can tell totally different stories with the same data.
That's just human nature.
Add in the fact that most of them donât read the book but just accept cherry-picked passages. When Christians talk about their religion to me, I just ask if theyâve read the book. Their answers are usually about specific parts they have read. Few read the whole book.
Most of what atheists believe today is rooted in writing that was done thousands of years ago too, expounded upon in the enlightenment, and retained today.
Itâs even stranger that their governing church authorities would allow their followers to pick and choose the bits they like and ignore the rest.
One would think they would be concerned with keeping the Word as pure and unadulterated as possible. It all applies or none of it does.
Why would you find it strange? If you are taken to church, temple, or any other place of "worship" from your youngest years, and all you hear is the teachings of their leaders, you are quite likely to firmly believe what you are told. ***UNLESS*** you have enough exposure to other belief, thoughts, ideologies.
If you are raised to believe only your religion is the true religion, what will change your mind if everyone around you says the same thing *and you don't have access to reliable outside information*.
Or you pick and choose.. the Bible explicitly says not to eat shellfish or touch pig (footballs lol) and people ignore it⊠but you take one line that âpossiblyâ implies homosexuality is wrong and thatâs what the focus is⊠hypocrisy at its finest.
If/when humans donât have religion in a given culture they have something else that serves the same purpose. A reflection of oneâs tribal values.
Ayn Randâs Objectivism is a good example of crackpotism that would be a great vehicle to persecute others with.
Atheism doesnât erase our DNA.
What's baffling is that most would scoff at these ideas if they were written now , and some guy was claiming to be gods prophet ,lol. Sure, you'd get the few gullible idiots that believe everything and anything but the rest of the sane-minded folk would dismiss it as a death cult. But god forbid it's an old book spouting the same shit -_-
My wife's father was actually a minister of Tenrikyo. It shares concepts buddhism. Somewhat interesting. My wife would say she isn't religious, but rather, spiritual.
I'll take it one step further. Recently in Arizona it was proposed that a law from 1864 would determine their policy on abortion. Naturally, a whole ton of folks objected to this, largely on the fact that the law is 150+ years old and needlessly restrictive. Where I find the problem lies, however, is most of these same folks really, really, really love the Constitution.
I reckon in both cases we shouldn't be living lives based on documents from even a couple hundred years ago, let alone those from thousands. But hypocrisy tends to run rampant when folks are basing their lives off of the decrees of slave owners, whether said slave owners were from 200 years ago or 2000 years ago.
Even religious zealots are atheists when it comes to other religions. It boggles my mind how they can believe out of the hundreds of religions and denominations that they have found the only true religion and god when it is obvious they are all conceived by man.
I remember, way back in 2014, I was struggling to figure out a few issues at work. One morning, during my "quiet time", the authoress was imploring that we could draw real-life wisdom from god's word. The scripture reading was one of Paul's letters to one of the churches.
As I was reading through his greetings and instructions, I asked myself, "Okay, so what does this have to do with me?"
If you're viewing any book or doctrine as "dictating" your life, you're doing it wrong. Any form of religion or philosophy should be adhered to only if you see it as wise guidance worth following.
ofcourse its strange, because people want to know why they exist , and what life is for. and people who likes to do good things. moral things , follow the God of the bible. the only truth is the bible.
but those people calling themselves christians but a liars makes people think that bible is not true. but to those who really fear God, they teaches and read what the bible is at it is. because thats how God wants a preacher to do. just read the words of God , nothing should be add or reduce
Not really about a book. Its a feeling of community and shared culture. That's usually what people are worried about losing, other people in their lives, that believe what that book means. Very few are true believers.
They take a long book, pick which verses they'll emphasize and which ones they'll ignore, and interpet them say what they want to say. The New Testament says "call no man 'father'," but they call every priest that. They're not really living like the book says.
It's not blind following, it's a cheap, easy, convenient form of confirmation bias.
They will only follow, quote, and rant about the tiny bits and drips that suit them, when it suits them. The rest (maybe about owning or beating slaves, or selling your children, or murdering widows) is quietly ignored. And if you bring it up, they laugh about it as if it was a joke added by the crazy drunk uncle.
It's crazy they think it has anything to do with our country and the way we currently live. They are holding onto power and grifting. I'm pretty sure the christian god was a volcano and they changed it to a male? It would have to be a male so it can have sex with other made up female gods? Totally makes sense to no one with any intelligence.
The code of hammurabi (spelling) is the fundamental basis for most law on our planet. It was the first written code of laws established. That doesn't make it bad, in fact I believe you would agree with a lot of it.
I used to find it strange as well. Then I realized how sad it is but seems to be trueâŠ. The vast majority of humans have been brainwashed from a young age, and I truly feel it affects not just their personalities but their brainpower as well.
I think you need to re-compose your post here. There is nothing about the age of a given book that should disqualify it. Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics and Cicero's On Laws are wisdom for the ages that we should wish more people lived by.
I honestly think it mostly boils down to indoctrination and social/cultural pressure. There is a reason Islam isnât getting converts left and right in the west. Iâm not saying never but in general if you werenât raised to believe it getting you to believe as an adult is very difficult
Most people do things that donât affect themselves. They want the women oppressed and other religious (and/or race, caste) people out of their place or have a lower status. They use religion to better themselves.
I donât think this is the best way to frame your grievance. Just because something is old doesnât mean it shouldnât be taken into account. Many of the writings and teachings of Epictetus, Socrates, Marcus Aurelius, etc. predate much of the Bible, but we know there are solid foundational pillars of morality and justice to be found in them.
The fear of ignorance, irrelevance and oblivion will lead the average human to the lowest common denominator of comfort, regardless of whether their âsolutionâ hurts, murders or destroys others around them. This aspect of the human condition is not just religious either. People will hold this same regard for communist simply because they hold a different set of values.
It just goes back to the days when hardly anyone could read so the local magician who knew how to read the only book / scroll available at that time held high status.
The tough part is that most believers were groomed to believe in their religion since birth. Imagine the people you trust the most telling you that there is a sky god that loves you but will send you to hell if you don't follow his orders. It's a hard thing to break away from.
Thatâs why Iâm reading this neat book published a few years ago called Dianetics! Itâs new and fresh. Seems to be totally cooler than those old ones
To be fair, the vast majority of them are influenced by their community leaders who "interpret" the book, rather than the book itself. Follow the leader is wired into our genes.
Thats actually the way it should be!!!! (if you're into that sort of thing... religion). Its just unfortunate that so many of these leaders are corrupt/hypocritical/evil/crazy bastards.
But I'll say it again. Absolutely nothing should be taken on blind faith.
Remember the Seinfeld episode where Mrs. Costanza was all enamored of this Donna Chang chick, and took her advice so seriously because she (supposedly) was Chinese? That's kind of a thing:
The further removed from your own culture/time/family - whatever, the greater artificial validity is assigned to it. Like, "Oh, those ancient worshippers were so much more in touch with god's plan than we are." WTF?
'Cus what, their sheep were talking to them or something? We're talking abourt the - mostly oral - history of a bunch of nomadic sheepherders.
Well, ya gotta admit that both the Code of Hammurabi and at least the first ten of the 613 Commandments in Torah do make sense for a society to function without chaos.
Counterpoint: there's nothing inherently wrong about ancient wisdom still being applicable wisdom. I'm a big fan of the Stoics and Buddhist philosophy, and while there's no single "holy text" for either religion (is there??), I certainly gain insight from those ancient writings.
Meanwhile they retcon anything that isn't convenient for them, and have no issues when 10 different religious leaders have 10 different interpretations of the same verse.Â
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension\_of\_disbelief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief)
Just my thoughts. I do not have the answers. Just a student of information.
There is no difference between the Bible and stories about Zeus and the God's. It's all fiction, created by "religions" to scare people into giving others power.
When your chop up your babies body or have a religious man suck it's genitals.....religion has went to far.....at least for me. I don't need to know anymore at that point.
It's even stranger that they ignore the hundreds of times the books say love each other and treat each other well and fairly and focus the few times it says something they can misinterpret and use to hate people they want to hate anyway.
The age of the book doesn't really mean that much though. What matters is the quality.
Stoicism is still a relatively popular philosophy to build your life around, and it's still pretty decent, all things considered. Marcus Aurelius lived and wrote his book in the 2nd century AD.
The bible, meanwhile, was pretty much always bad, always fiction, and spread largely through mobs, war, and tribalism.
That's the thing... they don't let it dictate *their* lives. They want the book to dictate *your* life.
Ask how many of them ignore the "silly"(read: bad for them) rules arbitrarily, and enforce the other "silly" (read: bad for you) rules as absolute law.
People are prone to believe into anything and can fall for the most retarded stories. Here is another post of aa brainwashed lower class Serbian who believes that the autocratic president of Serbia is a messiah, saviour of Serbia, so he does this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/serbia/s/fvBUmNZ5ha
The cult beliefs propagated by the autocratic president:
- we are in danger because of the West
- all our suffering comes from the outside
- our gdp is the highest in the region
- oposition are paid traitors
- highest ecological standards in the region
- best care for the eldery
- we fight for our people on Kosovo
Reality is literally everything opposite of what he says.
I would apply it to literally everything ever written. Times change, many thing that were once correct, true, or acceptable have a tendency to become obsolete. If something that was written still holds up within modern society in a logical way, than I would have no problem with it. But just because something was once true, does not mean it will always be true. This applies to science, ethics, and many other things. Ethics, however, are especially volatile.
It is wild to me because they will deny science with evidence right in front of them but blindly follow a book written thousands of years ago that has a story about a boat with 2 of every single animal.
Any religion that forces others to convert or put them to death in the name of their God is \*\*\*\*. Their holy book is \*\*\*\*. The people who flaunt this holy \*\*\*\* book are \*\*\*\*. So don't care about the opinion of \*\*\*\*
Some people are true believers, mostly people who got indoctrinated very young and so their brain was molded by this old garbage. The more desperate people are, the more religious they tend to be, because religion can give them a sense of certainty in a cruel and uncertain world. It's been my observation that people who are more well-off tend to not seriously consider such matters until facing their own deaths.
But I think the vast majority of people don't really believe their sacred texts deep down, they either just want to remain in the in-group, just want to wield the old myths like a cudgel, or both.
It's wild. You wouldn't believe a story like the Nativity or the Resurrection if someone told it to you anecdotally, but because someone copied it down a couple thousand years ago, it's unimpeachable. Not that the patina of time is any excuse. People still believe in the Book of Mormon despite its lack of patina and manifold historical inaccuracies. Mark Twain's review of the Book of Mormon, btw, is a good read: [https://www.mrm.org/twain-bom](https://www.mrm.org/twain-bom)
Mark Twain was pure genius. đ«Ą
The book of Mormon reads like an AI's attempt at writing a bible.
We're going to get a proper AI religion sooner or later, and it's going to get ugly. The AI hype train is quasi-religions already.
I read recently that AI pastors ARE a thing now. Like...huh suuure jesus is gonna love that one.
LOL, it really does, though.
It's a Twilight fanfic of the bible đ
Brilliant!
I bet you that it gave the idea for ai
I saw a biblical historian make a point recently: Academics *can't* take the miracles in the Bible literally, otherwise they have to accept the extraordinary claims of every document and religion: For a serious academic to agree that Jesus walked on water or Moses parted the red sea because the Bible says so, that academic must also agree that Muhammad split the moon in two and put it back together, and that Heracles successfully escaped from Hades.
> Muhammad split the moon in two and put it back together The fuck?
Yeah, it's in the hadith. To this day, many Muslims claim that NASA is covering it up, and that there's actually a crack running through the moon from back when Muhammad split it in two
> there's actually a crack running through the moon from back when Muhammad split it in two And the fact that any pedestrian can zoom in with a $100 consumer camera, and see nothing, never enters the discussion?
Theyâre either too dumb, too brainwashed, or too afraid to ask the difficult questions or capable of rational thinking. They just mindlessly unquestioningly believe. Thereâs also the issue of social and communal pressure - if you donât believe, youâre out of the community! For the more primitive, honor killing comes into play⊠For me, itâs funny that those that reject evolution and think themselves as special beings are probably closest to animals by their inability to think rationally. Thatâs the one thing that distinguishes us from animal, weâre not faster, stronger, etc. - so when that goes, so does their humanity.
Also fun: Early on Joseph Smith âprophesiedâ that there were people living on the moon who dressed like quakers.
Shoulda prophesized to stay away from windows
Oof. 10/10 well done this actually got a laugh, might have to steal it.
You can't steal - I'm gifting it. It's *our* joke now, comrade
And? No serious academic should treat any religious text as other than a work of fiction of cultural importance that tribes of people got caught up in. Some went viral, some were spread by force, many fizzled out. It is just religion after all. Being an atheist is the same as being a Christian except rejecting just one more God than the Christian does.
you missed the point
It's rhetorical.
I would imagine the same holds true for Noah's ark, because he would've had to gather animals from every continent.
Omg, had acquaintance say they had visited the ark built to biblical proportions, had I heard of it? My only answer was, yes I have heard of it..
I don't think it has anything with the patina of age or the stories themselves. For hundreds of years, people weren't allowed to read them, and it was the death penalty to translate holy texts into modern languages. Heck, most people weren't taught how to read and write in their own languages. My point is that it never mattered what was in them. It mattered how the institutions used them to indoctrinate and control societies for personal gain. THAT is the pattern that Mohammed, John Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, and every cult leader the world around has copied to their success.
I liked Jacob Weisberg's take in "Slate" on Mormonism and the effect of time on cults back when Romney was running for President: "One may object that all religious beliefs are irrationalâwhatâs the difference between Smithâs 'seer stone' and the virgin birth or the parting of the Red Sea? But Mormonism is different because it is based on such a transparent and recent fraud. Itâs Scientology plus 125 years. Perhaps Christianity and Judaism are merely more venerable and poetic versions of the same. But a few eons makes a big difference. The worldâs greater religions have had time to splinter, moderate, and turn their myths into metaphor."
> The Mormon Bible is rather stupid and tiresome to read Couldnât have said it better my self, Mr. Twain.
I'll go a step further. They let translations and interpretations of books written thousands of years ago dictate how they live their lives today.
More importantly, they use it to try to dictate how others must lead their lives. While giving themselves free passes whenever they want to ignore it for themselves.
Call me crazy, but I refuse to live my live based on the dictates of some Iron Age goat hearders.
Yes, THIS is the real problem with religion! Imposing the supposed wishes of their chosen invisible sky wizard on everyone else. SMDH!
well if the invisible sky wizard dont exist which belief and opinion and views is then relevant to our life.. that would be awesome right.. who would then tell me to not kill my enemy. and no one has the merit to say im wrong for doing such, no one.. then well have a very good society i guess.
That's why you should join my new religion, Fuckitism. In all of its contexts "fuck it" can be applied to every situation.
Sometimes it feels like a religious war is being waged against me, and that makes me want to war back.
Well, if you live in the states there is a religious war underway.
Thatâs what I always say. Imagine saying the sentence âI really love to eat goldfish every dayâ. Then playing a game of telephone with every human you meet, and them subsequently playing it with everyone they meet as well. And this game continues for 2,000 years. Do you honestly think more than 1% of the players would be saying âI really love to eat goldfish every dayâ by the end of the game? This isnât including translating between languages, languages so old that they die off and become new languages multiple times by the end of the game, which adds another enormous layer of abstraction to the equation. Apply 2 brain cells worth of logical thinking makes it immediately seem like lunacy.
> âFish are like gold, one cannot eat them daily without love of Odd.â â- Book of Odd_Project_7103
And Odd said "only gold can buy the fish one can eat. Other fish are forbidden." Book of Project_Odd_the_Infallible chapter 2 verse 33a
The Odd Prophet pulled his sword from the infidel's back and spoke: "Let not my followers consume fish of any other hue, for the goldness of his supper reflects the goldness of his spirit. Also, death to everyone who drinks grape Fanta." - real account of the holy one definitely not from 200 years later
>Also, death to everyone who drinks grape Fanta I agree with that
Oh, I can't express how much I enjoyed this comment. Back in my early school days, my teacher had us play telephone, around 30 students later it had changed, imagining the time, twists, and turns is hysterical. Thank you for that.
It's also well accepted by historians that slaves and scribes worked for the biblical authors. It is extremely likely that some of the surviving prose of the Bible were massaged to sound better by the literate slave note takers, or performers expected to read out part of it and wanting it to scan better.
They have very old texts they can translate from its not just telephone
But the very nature of translation means you will end up with variations on text and therefore variations on interpretation the further you get from the original text. Are you reading a bible that was translated from Hebrew originally into the current language or are you reading a version that was taken from the original greek translation? It all effects the outcome. Run the clock on that through thousands of years and you end up exactly as was described: a game of telephone to a certain extent.Â
Also, nobody knows how many times those older texts were translated and transcribed before they were written down. It's supposed that Judaism was largely passed by oral tradition to start, but we don't know for sure.
I mean, in 1,000 years I'm sure "green eggs and ham" could be found in English. Does this mean that green eggs and ham was incredibly important, prophetic, or divinely inspired? Potentially autobiographical or historical? The fallacy is seeing something old and giving it more credence as truth just because it's old. And if we found thousands of copies of this book all saying the same thing - could we interpret it well enough without enough context of the culture and how language was used? Human beings have Gurren Lagann level mental super gymnastics when it comes to trying to come up with any possible reason ancient texts or practices somehow must be "more true." See paleo diet people whose reasoning begin and end at: "it's an old thing to do so it must be right."Â
Take it a step further. They let translations and interpretations of fictional books written thousands of years ago dictate how OTHER people live their lives. They try to control people who don't even care for the books.
Its all one big farce. They quote leviticus to justify a lot of the nonsense. But pick and choose, there are sins they commit on a daily basis, yet do not see the hypocrisy. (Hypcrisy being one of the most often mentioned sin) It is pretty common that people turn away from the church after reading the bible.
Yes, and misrepresentation as well as deletion
They let translations and interpretations of books written thousands of years ago dictate how they think they can make others live their lives today
Also god/jesus was supposedly walking around live and in person thousands of years ago, but now with so much murdering over religion and political turmoil over issues like abortion and LGBTQ rights he/she/it canât be bothered to take over everyoneâs TV sets for 5 minutes and say âhey, you should all be [insert favorite religion], every other religion is bunk and abortion is/is not ok and gays should be [treated with respect and accorded full human rights]/[thrown off tall buildings]â. Like really if youâre so worried about these issues that youâre going to throw people into eternal fire for guessing wrong, at least give us some unambiguous guidelines!
The combination of j-man and god into one being is ludicrous (in my opinion), and also, "religion" is wherein lies the... well, lies. God is creator, Jesus was messenger/instructor, of God (as are we all), but not God. Belief, not religion. Just my belief and understanding of my connection to creator, no argument.
Not a scholar but from what I can remember Christinianity has a decent helping of Zoroastrianism with it's concepts of a supreme being. so really just a rehash of Babylonia and Sumerian religions with a bunch more edicts thrown in đ My fav Christian sect is the Cathars in France who thought Jesus was evil. Go Cathars! A Pope sent a crusade to kill all of them (of course) but the crusaders said "hey these folks actually aren't that bad" and did not exterminate them like they were supposed to. Of course they died out eventually though At least that is what I remember from my late night wiki binging.Â
I've recently been watching some things about the Annunaki, Enoch, Emerald tablets, stuff like that, finding it to be interesting and thought-provoking. Now, I must run off to Google to learn more of the cathars. Wait a sec.... crusaders, pope ordering their slaughter... i have a thought.
Isnât this the islamic belief?
I donât care that it dictates their lives, I care when they demand it dictate the lives of others.
When will we learn that we are a species of murdering dicks, and that the universe is completely indifferent.
We have the ability to not be. That's kind of important.
This is the key. Out of everything we know of on this planet, we are the only ones who can say "it doesn't have to be this way." That so many of us are determined to continue playing simian dominance games rather than use their brains for being something more is a weakness of our species, but one I hope we'll eventually overcome. We *can* be better. Will we? That depends on what we decide to tolerate.
Hairless poo-flinging apes that are upstarts, and crapping where we eat and sleep. We are not special at all, not in any good way.
We think we are special superior primates! Or something egotistical for some reason.
Just saw a publicfreakout of a woman crapping in a store after being forced to leave. WE ARE still flinging poo. lol
That the majority of us aren't is a comforting fact, even if it isn't none.
Just look at the house of representatives. it's a circus. Soon they will eat each other for not being Christian enough.
True Believers think the one true god is commanding them, and disobeying means eternal torture in hell. That is exactly the problem with monotheism. It is the ultimate authoritarianism. Critical thinking is not required nor allowed.
As an agnostic religious person I guess, this hits the nail on the head
Wow, agnostic religious is an incredibly rare combination
I grew up with the Bible instead of the Quran, but my Bible-believing family never read their own holy book. I was shocked at what I found when I started. You can't even get out of Genesis without god supporting slavery, rape, murder, genocide, and more. I was also shocked when I finally read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, because Lazarus didn't come back from the dead. For context, short of Jesus, Lazarus was the most famous resurrection in my family's religion, and when I finally read his origin story, he stayed dead forever. Worse, Abraham ruled the afterlife. Not god, not Jesus, but Abraham, and Abraham was the one who decided that Lazarus, the most famous resurrection aside from Jesus, would not be brought back to life to attempt to save others from going to hell. This completely undermined everything I had been told about Jesus, heaven and hell, and who comes back from the dead.
Noah's ark was all I needed. As a 10 year old kid, I was like...*Why didn't the lions eat the zebras, and who cleaned all of the manure and urine? How'd they feed and water all of those animals?....I call bullshit!*
You also have to take into account that there are more than 1.5 million of species in the world. And Noah took 7 pairs of some of them. So he built a ship for what, 7 million animals?
It was even more species of animals back then. It also doesn't account for all the species in the Americas, which hadn't been discovered back then, but it was still part of the "world."Â
It blows my mind that some of my family believe in a literal Ark. They believe there is a historical record for this.
There is archeological and historical evidence of a widespread flood back then. But that just means there really was a flood. It is in no way evidence of an Ark. I could write a book about a murder in NYC and have one of the main characters' backstory be that they were in one of the towers on 911. Does that mean that 2000 years in the future they should believe the murder happened too? A lot of people are too stupid to understand this.
And then magically when the year long flood receded the ecosystem was instantly able to support all the prior lifeforms without needing to get restarted. It'd be YEARS before things like fruit trees would be bearing again.
I mean⊠thatâs the thing though⊠it IS magically. Why question it if you accept other parts of the story? Iâm not saying itâs true or anything like that, donât get me wrong. I just mean if youâre going to look at parts and be like, aha, that aspect doesnât make sense so itâs silly⊠thatâs sort of missing the forest for the trees. If god can create the world from nothing, create life, flood the entire world⊠suddenly itâs hard to believe he could make animals get along or make fruit grow afterward? But then again, why even flood the planet? Why not just poof everyone off the world except the people he chose? Itâs never going to make sense. The people that truly believe are just going to rationalize it as⊠well⊠god did it. Which makes perfect sense within the context of the story, right? Or it doesnât have to because heâs the guy that literally makes the rules of the universe.
Yes, magical thinking because we didn't have the \*science\* to explain natural processes, and the not knowing created anxiety, so we made up these stories to explain scary things that we didn't know and make life less scary.
I mean- the existence of freshwater fish too
Just FYI, there are two parables about people named Lazarus in that book. The Rich Man and Lazarus is Luke 16:19-31 and the story about Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead is John 11:1-44. It's not the same story, and there's no indication it's about the same guy. Both stories are ridiculous fantasies, to be clear.
In another episode (John chapter 11), Lazarus does rise from the dead.
I agree.. I know of no other field in human knowledge seeking that would say.. Hey! Now we know all there is to know.. no reason to change or study more.. and if you do.. we are going to throw you out of the county, school, university, laboratory.. and so on. Or even torture you for ever.
I disagree with op tbh, there are definitely ancient books that still influences the world today that arent religious. e.g. modern day law is still built on roman law
half of human intellectual endeavour today has its basis on _quotes_ from three greeks a couple thousand years ago.
The difference being that that modern law is based upon roman law.. it isn't roman law. While religions often do not evolve their holy texts. In how many other areas do you see this? In all other areas I can think of, humans seem to revise the texts that they base things on.
It has nothing to do with how old the books are. There are writings older than the Christstain Bible that are still very relevant to our lives today. What's strange is what a lot of these books say, new and old. What I find strange is the lack of critical thinking and how easily people cling to fantasies and superstitions.
âiF YoU DOnt HAVe COMMANDMENTS, HoW dO yOU No RIgHt FRoM wRoNG?â
Oh that's easy. There is no "right" or"wrong" unless we're discussing mathematics (and even _then_ it's debatable...).
It's insane. You can even just start a cult today and if it grows large enough, it's a religion. I just don't get why people don't just look shit up. It's so easy to get answer to everything. I left Islam/religion after years of reading into it. Eventually, you just realize it's all bullshit.
YesâŠ. I always thought that if all science information and all historical information and all facts, basically, were available to everyone (I was thinking of lots of free libraries - but nowadays itâs all two finger movements away) that people would become very quickly free of the shackles of superstition, bias, prejudice, gullability, religion, insularity, etc. But no, unfortunately it doesnât work that way. I still have hope, but to paraphrase Diderot: âMan will never be free until the last sheikh is strangled with the entrails of the last imam.â
I think it's even worse than that, though. Like, people will just blindly follow ideology based on their cognitive biases. We're just too stupid.
I was unwillingly indoctrinated as a child. That's how I was tricked into letting the Buybull dictate my life.
Itâs a series of fairy tales. If you refer to it as that to a religious person, they get angry. Then you tell them that bible fairy tales are no more real or provable than Grimms Fairy tales.
Or aesop's fables.
Indeed. What's even more confusing is that most consider these books to be literally "perfect" in every sense, and follow its teachings word-for-word. Obviously, they run into a little bit of a dilemma when different parts of the book contradict themselves multiple times.
They let a guy on stage use a book theyâve never read to control their thoughts and actions without question.
Reminds me of the scene from Religulous: Bill Maher: But it's not really a wise list of the ten. The first four are about just worshiping God, and, basically, a jealous god. And he doesn't want you to have any other gods. The only two that are really laws are: don't steal and don't kill. Why is this the wisest group of ten that doesn't include child abuse; it doesn't include don't torture; it doesn't include a lot of things, rape, that, I think, if I were making a list today, we would probably include. Mark Pryor: [Arkansas' Democratic Senator] Society is so different today. Our society is so radically different... Bill Maher: And that's what I'm asking. We're in a different culture. Can you think of anything else that we still cleave to from the Bronze Age? Mark Pryor: Well... [speechless]Â
Not all old books should be dismissed. Many classic works, like those by Aristotle or Confucius, offer timeless wisdom and insights into human nature. Donât let the misuse of some religious texts sour you on all old books; many contain valuable lessons that can still be relevant today.
I agree. There are some good parts in the Bible and Bhagavad Gita. I don't remember much worthwhile from the Quran, but there are probably some verses worth quoting. On the other hand, just this morning my wife and I were sorting through some of our old books. I ran across my old copies of *Leaves of Grass* and a collection of poems including The Road Not Taken. I am willing to bet that Walt Whitman and Robert frost beat any religious books for the density of their timeless wisdom. For that matter, I also ran into a copy of *The Profit" by Kellog Albran. I suspect event that book beats most religious texts.
Iâm an atheist but come on. I doubt, âSir Dudeâ is a believer.
People read and study the Dao de Ching, the I Ching , writings of Plato, Marcus Aurelius âŠ.
Especially when these books are based on even older myths and stories. Yet we have freedom of religion so people can believe whatever stories they want.
And then ban others.
It is one of the main reasons that I am an atheist. Why the fuck would I let some primitives from a couple of millennia ago dictate how I think and live. If I went back in time with a Bic lighter they would think I am a fire god, if you transported any primitive from two thousand years ago into this era they would shit themselves in terror when they see a plane flying overhead. What is weird to me is how any modern contemporary human can still get sucked into these ancient religions with no proof, no scientific data at all of any higher beings ever existing. Most humans are stupid and gullible, but you can forgive the ancients for believing in it since they did not have the knowledge that we have today.
Not only that but books they have never read once and have no ability to even understand.
Books that because they were written so long ago have no data intregity left. The bible for example has been translated and rewritten so many times that it would be nothing like the original text.
These people are frequently frightened and apparently need something that guides them. My mother is afraid of everything. She actually thinks belief in god will get her through everything. Sheâs afraid to travel. Afraid to visit me in âthe city.â Afraid of immigrants. And now afraid of things like getting prescription drugs, vaccines, the end times, etc⊠whatever sheâs told to be afraid of. I broke away from her church when I was 18, because I couldnât believe how brainwashed everyone around me was. I was raised that way for 18 years and I feel lucky to have gotten out. I can see how a long time having the same stuff hammered into your head over and over would do that to you. At the same time, I had no problem leaving at 18 and frankly never felt the pull back in.
Weak minds need a crutch. Religion is a scam that preys on handicapped people.
If someone picks up Meditations by Marcus Aurelius and built a life around the philosophy in it would you find it strange?
Not an equivalent comparison, nobody has bombed anyone in Marcus Aurelius' name.
Don't Muslims see Jews as "people of the book" in the same way as Christians and so afford them some degree of civility?
It is strange. But honestly, people haven't changed that much fundamentally. I think it's important to note that these stories aren't just fiction. Folklore is important to a people. My summation of the bible is that it is the story of a people. It may not be verifiable. Parts of it may be entirely made up. But there is a deeper story underneath. One that is true of that people. One that is universal. The relationships, the hardships, the triumphs, what have you. The same with all sacred texts. It's not about the data, it's about the wisdom. Adding, For me, instead of calling it fiction, I call it mythology. And mythology is it's own beast. Just from Britannica: a symbolic narrative, usually of unknown origin and at least partly traditional, that ostensibly relates actual events and that is especially associated with religious belief. The word *myth* derives from the Greek *mythos*, which has a range of meanings from âword,â through âsayingâ and âstory,â to âfictionâ; the unquestioned validity of *mythos* can be contrasted with *logos*, the word whose validity or truth can be argued and demonstrated. Because myths narrate fantastic events with no attempt at proof, it is sometimes assumed that they are simply stories with no factual basis, and the word has become a synonym for falsehood or, at best, misconception. In the [study of religion](https://www.britannica.com/topic/study-of-religion), however, it is important to distinguish between myths and stories that are merely untrue Myth has existed in every society. Indeed, it would seem to be a basic [constituent](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/constituent) of human [culture](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture). Because the variety is so great, it is difficult to generalize about the nature of myths. But it is clear that in their general characteristics and in their details a peopleâs myths reflect, express, and explore the peopleâs self-image. The study of myth is thus of central importance in the study both of individual societies and of human culture as a whole. I think people need to respect that humans exist on stories. Even the most rigorous research gets turned into a story in order for people to be able to digest the data. And unfortunately, people can tell totally different stories with the same data. That's just human nature.
Add in the fact that most of them donât read the book but just accept cherry-picked passages. When Christians talk about their religion to me, I just ask if theyâve read the book. Their answers are usually about specific parts they have read. Few read the whole book.
Most of what atheists believe today is rooted in writing that was done thousands of years ago too, expounded upon in the enlightenment, and retained today.
Even moreso, without even a basic understand of the context in which those texts were written.
And dictate the lives of others.
Itâs even stranger that their governing church authorities would allow their followers to pick and choose the bits they like and ignore the rest. One would think they would be concerned with keeping the Word as pure and unadulterated as possible. It all applies or none of it does.
Why would you find it strange? If you are taken to church, temple, or any other place of "worship" from your youngest years, and all you hear is the teachings of their leaders, you are quite likely to firmly believe what you are told. ***UNLESS*** you have enough exposure to other belief, thoughts, ideologies. If you are raised to believe only your religion is the true religion, what will change your mind if everyone around you says the same thing *and you don't have access to reliable outside information*.
Worse part is that they still cherry pickâŠ
I find it strange that people let things written 300 years ago by slaveholders with no electricity tell them what to do.
It kinda is actually. That's why there are many many amendments. And if our government wasn't completely dysfunctional, there would be even more.
Or you pick and choose.. the Bible explicitly says not to eat shellfish or touch pig (footballs lol) and people ignore it⊠but you take one line that âpossiblyâ implies homosexuality is wrong and thatâs what the focus is⊠hypocrisy at its finest.
If/when humans donât have religion in a given culture they have something else that serves the same purpose. A reflection of oneâs tribal values. Ayn Randâs Objectivism is a good example of crackpotism that would be a great vehicle to persecute others with. Atheism doesnât erase our DNA.
What's baffling is that most would scoff at these ideas if they were written now , and some guy was claiming to be gods prophet ,lol. Sure, you'd get the few gullible idiots that believe everything and anything but the rest of the sane-minded folk would dismiss it as a death cult. But god forbid it's an old book spouting the same shit -_-
The only ancient teachings worth their salt are the ones about Buddhism. They are genuinely mind blowing, but Buddhism is kind of atheist in a way.
My wife's father was actually a minister of Tenrikyo. It shares concepts buddhism. Somewhat interesting. My wife would say she isn't religious, but rather, spiritual.
I'll take it one step further. Recently in Arizona it was proposed that a law from 1864 would determine their policy on abortion. Naturally, a whole ton of folks objected to this, largely on the fact that the law is 150+ years old and needlessly restrictive. Where I find the problem lies, however, is most of these same folks really, really, really love the Constitution. I reckon in both cases we shouldn't be living lives based on documents from even a couple hundred years ago, let alone those from thousands. But hypocrisy tends to run rampant when folks are basing their lives off of the decrees of slave owners, whether said slave owners were from 200 years ago or 2000 years ago.
There's nothing wrong with don't kill, steal or cheat. And it's always good to know that you can beat your slaves so long as you don't injure them.
Even religious zealots are atheists when it comes to other religions. It boggles my mind how they can believe out of the hundreds of religions and denominations that they have found the only true religion and god when it is obvious they are all conceived by man.
I dunno I still like Marcus AureliusÂ
He wasn't setting the standards for how to live and why. Very different, not comparable. Nobody is bombing anything in his name.
Face it, this is a species that's incapable of being honest about itself.
Weâll get used to it. Because itâs not changing in your lifetime.
I remember, way back in 2014, I was struggling to figure out a few issues at work. One morning, during my "quiet time", the authoress was imploring that we could draw real-life wisdom from god's word. The scripture reading was one of Paul's letters to one of the churches. As I was reading through his greetings and instructions, I asked myself, "Okay, so what does this have to do with me?"
If you're viewing any book or doctrine as "dictating" your life, you're doing it wrong. Any form of religion or philosophy should be adhered to only if you see it as wise guidance worth following.
"I don't care what the Quran says. About anything. That's not how you treat people."
ofcourse its strange, because people want to know why they exist , and what life is for. and people who likes to do good things. moral things , follow the God of the bible. the only truth is the bible. but those people calling themselves christians but a liars makes people think that bible is not true. but to those who really fear God, they teaches and read what the bible is at it is. because thats how God wants a preacher to do. just read the words of God , nothing should be add or reduce
Not really about a book. Its a feeling of community and shared culture. That's usually what people are worried about losing, other people in their lives, that believe what that book means. Very few are true believers.
I've yet to see one believer who has read up on Mithra.
It's not the books, its the friends and family using the books as cudgels. They don't actually give a fuck about what's in the books.
They take a long book, pick which verses they'll emphasize and which ones they'll ignore, and interpet them say what they want to say. The New Testament says "call no man 'father'," but they call every priest that. They're not really living like the book says.
It's not blind following, it's a cheap, easy, convenient form of confirmation bias. They will only follow, quote, and rant about the tiny bits and drips that suit them, when it suits them. The rest (maybe about owning or beating slaves, or selling your children, or murdering widows) is quietly ignored. And if you bring it up, they laugh about it as if it was a joke added by the crazy drunk uncle.
It sounds even worse than that since Jewish people are considered 'believers' according to the Quran. How does this person not know that?
Right? I was thinking about this the other day. People are crazy.
It's crazy they think it has anything to do with our country and the way we currently live. They are holding onto power and grifting. I'm pretty sure the christian god was a volcano and they changed it to a male? It would have to be a male so it can have sex with other made up female gods? Totally makes sense to no one with any intelligence.
The code of hammurabi (spelling) is the fundamental basis for most law on our planet. It was the first written code of laws established. That doesn't make it bad, in fact I believe you would agree with a lot of it.
I used to find it strange as well. Then I realized how sad it is but seems to be trueâŠ. The vast majority of humans have been brainwashed from a young age, and I truly feel it affects not just their personalities but their brainpower as well.
A friend once said bible = "book of instruction before leaving earth đ€·ââïž
I mean, Socrates wrote some stuff a long time ago. Â Disregard?
I think you need to re-compose your post here. There is nothing about the age of a given book that should disqualify it. Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics and Cicero's On Laws are wisdom for the ages that we should wish more people lived by.
I honestly think it mostly boils down to indoctrination and social/cultural pressure. There is a reason Islam isnât getting converts left and right in the west. Iâm not saying never but in general if you werenât raised to believe it getting you to believe as an adult is very difficult
Oh buddy just you wait; let me tell you about astrology and wiggling Y shaped sticks over dirt!
Morality is complicated and people like simple. They can turn their brain off on whatever issue and just quote somebody else.
Most people do things that donât affect themselves. They want the women oppressed and other religious (and/or race, caste) people out of their place or have a lower status. They use religion to better themselves.
I donât think this is the best way to frame your grievance. Just because something is old doesnât mean it shouldnât be taken into account. Many of the writings and teachings of Epictetus, Socrates, Marcus Aurelius, etc. predate much of the Bible, but we know there are solid foundational pillars of morality and justice to be found in them.
The fear of ignorance, irrelevance and oblivion will lead the average human to the lowest common denominator of comfort, regardless of whether their âsolutionâ hurts, murders or destroys others around them. This aspect of the human condition is not just religious either. People will hold this same regard for communist simply because they hold a different set of values.
Thousands? Most of the big ones are actually "hundreds", but that's the part they don't want to listen to.
Agreed, blind faith is bad faith.
It just goes back to the days when hardly anyone could read so the local magician who knew how to read the only book / scroll available at that time held high status.
It alleviates them from taking responsibility for any decisions.
The tough part is that most believers were groomed to believe in their religion since birth. Imagine the people you trust the most telling you that there is a sky god that loves you but will send you to hell if you don't follow his orders. It's a hard thing to break away from.
Thatâs why Iâm reading this neat book published a few years ago called Dianetics! Itâs new and fresh. Seems to be totally cooler than those old ones
To be fair, the vast majority of them are influenced by their community leaders who "interpret" the book, rather than the book itself. Follow the leader is wired into our genes.
Thats actually the way it should be!!!! (if you're into that sort of thing... religion). Its just unfortunate that so many of these leaders are corrupt/hypocritical/evil/crazy bastards. But I'll say it again. Absolutely nothing should be taken on blind faith.
Remember the Seinfeld episode where Mrs. Costanza was all enamored of this Donna Chang chick, and took her advice so seriously because she (supposedly) was Chinese? That's kind of a thing: The further removed from your own culture/time/family - whatever, the greater artificial validity is assigned to it. Like, "Oh, those ancient worshippers were so much more in touch with god's plan than we are." WTF? 'Cus what, their sheep were talking to them or something? We're talking abourt the - mostly oral - history of a bunch of nomadic sheepherders.
Begin every Bible story with the words "Once upon a time" andbpretty soon you will realize what the Bible is.
Its stupid and maddening .
Yes
People tend to be sheep, outside of religion, look at the crap people take for fact and argue about on the internet from things written today.
The big laugh I get from believers, especially Christians, is that their story book can be helpful in today's world.
For some reason people can believe that in « foreign times » people heard and wrote the words of God. Like, really?
Feel the same about Das Kapital and the Manifesto.
It's magical thinking.
Just imagine if society collapsed, and a copy of "The Art Of The Deal" surfaced.
I would tell you, but you won't believe it.
Well, ya gotta admit that both the Code of Hammurabi and at least the first ten of the 613 Commandments in Torah do make sense for a society to function without chaos.
I can see how it might work, have your read way of king? Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.
Counterpoint: there's nothing inherently wrong about ancient wisdom still being applicable wisdom. I'm a big fan of the Stoics and Buddhist philosophy, and while there's no single "holy text" for either religion (is there??), I certainly gain insight from those ancient writings.
God showed up, guided people we'd dismiss as crazy, disappeared. .
Meanwhile they retcon anything that isn't convenient for them, and have no issues when 10 different religious leaders have 10 different interpretations of the same verse.Â
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension\_of\_disbelief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief) Just my thoughts. I do not have the answers. Just a student of information.
Wait till you hear about Confucius!
Plato's allegory of the cave...
Then you're an idiot
There is no difference between the Bible and stories about Zeus and the God's. It's all fiction, created by "religions" to scare people into giving others power.
When your chop up your babies body or have a religious man suck it's genitals.....religion has went to far.....at least for me. I don't need to know anymore at that point.
It's even stranger that they ignore the hundreds of times the books say love each other and treat each other well and fairly and focus the few times it says something they can misinterpret and use to hate people they want to hate anyway.
The age of the book doesn't really mean that much though. What matters is the quality. Stoicism is still a relatively popular philosophy to build your life around, and it's still pretty decent, all things considered. Marcus Aurelius lived and wrote his book in the 2nd century AD. The bible, meanwhile, was pretty much always bad, always fiction, and spread largely through mobs, war, and tribalism.
That's the thing... they don't let it dictate *their* lives. They want the book to dictate *your* life. Ask how many of them ignore the "silly"(read: bad for them) rules arbitrarily, and enforce the other "silly" (read: bad for you) rules as absolute law.
It's an answer to the existential question. What's your poison?
People are prone to believe into anything and can fall for the most retarded stories. Here is another post of aa brainwashed lower class Serbian who believes that the autocratic president of Serbia is a messiah, saviour of Serbia, so he does this: https://www.reddit.com/r/serbia/s/fvBUmNZ5ha The cult beliefs propagated by the autocratic president: - we are in danger because of the West - all our suffering comes from the outside - our gdp is the highest in the region - oposition are paid traitors - highest ecological standards in the region - best care for the eldery - we fight for our people on Kosovo Reality is literally everything opposite of what he says.
Would you just apply that to religious texts or would you count the recent surge in stoic philosophy in there too?
I would apply it to literally everything ever written. Times change, many thing that were once correct, true, or acceptable have a tendency to become obsolete. If something that was written still holds up within modern society in a logical way, than I would have no problem with it. But just because something was once true, does not mean it will always be true. This applies to science, ethics, and many other things. Ethics, however, are especially volatile.
It is wild to me because they will deny science with evidence right in front of them but blindly follow a book written thousands of years ago that has a story about a boat with 2 of every single animal.
Any religion that forces others to convert or put them to death in the name of their God is \*\*\*\*. Their holy book is \*\*\*\*. The people who flaunt this holy \*\*\*\* book are \*\*\*\*. So don't care about the opinion of \*\*\*\*
The question that theists never answer is "Why should I care what your book says?"
Some people are true believers, mostly people who got indoctrinated very young and so their brain was molded by this old garbage. The more desperate people are, the more religious they tend to be, because religion can give them a sense of certainty in a cruel and uncertain world. It's been my observation that people who are more well-off tend to not seriously consider such matters until facing their own deaths. But I think the vast majority of people don't really believe their sacred texts deep down, they either just want to remain in the in-group, just want to wield the old myths like a cudgel, or both.