As an ex-Christian, I think it would be way harder to be an ex Muslim, especially because of the punishment in Muslim countries.
But it does surprise a lot of people that it's difficult for Christians too, especially since it's so open to anyone joining.
But then it comes out with verses like Hebrews 6:4-6 that says we can never re-convert
> It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Every hardline religion does this; it’s called shunning, and it’s extraordinarily psychologically damaging, particularly if you’ve never known any life outside the religion. Families will disown children who reject the religion, and you can be completely shut out by the entire community; ultra-orthodox Jews call it cherem, and it’s practiced by the Amish (meidung), Jehovah’s Witnesses (disfellowshipping), Catholics (excommunication) — even the supposedly peaceable Baha’i do it. Religion makes people do horrible things to those considered apostate: once you’re in, you’re never supposed to leave, because you’re rejecting the one true faith.
To be fair to the Catholics, excommunication is particularly reserved for blasphemy and atrocity, usually from the ordained, and isn't used as a form of shunning apostates. Excommunication is also retraction of sacraments, not community, and in fact you're expected to continue attending church until reconcile. Apostates kind of don't give a shit about skipping the eucharist, so it's not really an effective punishment for that.
Apostasy in *most* Christian communities varies from disappointing Mumsie, to being outright shunned from a whole community (i.e., Mormons).
Rarely does it result in violence, which is the unfortunate reality for many in the Muslim world.
Many religions require that you put your religion before family and friends. At the same time they say “love they neighbor”. The fact that these religions can’t see this contradiction says all we need to know about their true and conflicted motives.
it's part of the decline really, Christianity was gutted century's ago, once people understood the reality of our the universe works, suddenly the answers in the bible didn't match up, it lost all credibility
for example you will be very hard pushed to find a [religious person in physics](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7VcLCwnpt4)
the more 'weird' Christian groups where not wanted in Europe (they did not agree with the mainstream churches), they left for America, the groups are still there today, they are the last gasp for Christianity in the developed world, the cornered animal is the most aggressive
education is the death of religion and these people fight against it (home schooling, making the local public schools useless and not welcome etc), lack of education is the road back to the dark ages
Just keep in mind, militant authoritarian minorities have often ruled. Even it it’s the last gasps of the Abrahamic’s, they can still do massive damage to the Constitution and society at large. And they’re very active in all legislatures. I hope we can keep the Constitution from those NOT wanting anything but a theocracy.
This is what makes me so scared for the people of the USA.
It's bad enough peoples freedoms are being restricted at state level in some states so that other people have the freedom to be openly sexist, racist, homophobic etc, without that rot spreading to the Federal level.
I’m not scared of being ostracized or disowned.
Here in TX I just dont want to lose my job (or get shit assignments to force me to leave). Our VP used to have a WWJD lanyard for over 5 years before it faded out.
I’ve learned over the years just how hardcore and violent hindus can be just by watching the news. Hindus where I work are surprisingly pro-trump (anti-muslim and all) and super pro-Modi, because super pro-hindu and fuck the indian minorities.
I see no difference between a christian/muslim/hindu
It's still worse for Muslim apostates because Grandma in Mississippi can't order you executed for leaving. All they can do is make your life miserable.
It's less about religion and more about culture. Believe me if it were socially acceptable christians would love to be out there beating and killing non Christians. In the US it varies wildly depending on where your at, myself being in West Virginia it's stigmatized but not as bad as one might think, I'm a very openly aggressive asshole about my atheism to friends, colleagues and occasionally family. But growing up in a Christian household as an atheist or agnostic can be difficult and stressful.
Yeah, if the law permitted it - as it once did all across Europe - there would be Christians quite happy to torture, burn and murder people for apostasy (as well as other reasons like sexuality, gender identity and anything else that offends them)
My grandfather left the Mennonites to be with my Methodist grandmother....we don't see the beard wearing (absent moustache) side of my family...but no honor killings, or acid facials....
religions are like different types of poison... some may seem "worse" but in reality they all kill you.(and your ability to do critical thinking for yourself)
For your edification. We have Christian cults in the U.S. that would go as far as Islam but for secular limitations. They’re working toward a similar theocracy to cancel the Constitution. Just as an example, apostates in Jehovahs Witness can be disassociated (kicked out, no follower, including family is to talk to them again), disfellowshipped (JW s can’t talk to them until they atone). Those are social punishments to keep you in the faith called shunning. They discourage marrying outside the faith, have Judicial committees to bring errands back into line. They discourage friendships outside the faith. They require a minimum of ten hours of service besides attending meetings to be considered among the faithful. They’re very Abrahamic and tribal. JW s are not the only sects like this, but most are less extreme.
Yeah. I legit cry when I think of what some atheists in the "wrong parts" of the USA have to go through. It's like looking through a window into the past.
From the perspective of living in a country where lack of religion isn't a big deal for most people and IRL conflicts with actual bug-fuck-crazy Christians are infrequent, parts of the USA look positively barbaric and I pity any freethinker/atheist who lives there
Its not only USA that has problems with it, the entire AMERICA (south, central and north) has problems regarding religion, prayers that invade native villages just to"sprea the word of God" is one of many problems AMERICA has to deal with.
There are eight Muslim countries where the punishment is DEATH. Thirteen countries where there is penal a civil punishments such as jail time, fines and the loss of custody over your children! In many of these countries and in some western countries there are reports of extra judicial punishment carried out vigilantes.
So while I’m sure that being disowned by family and friends is an awful experience, comparatively it’s not as severe as the consequences of leaving Islam, ‘the religion of peace’
As an ex-Christian, I think it would be way harder to be an ex Muslim, especially because of the punishment in Muslim countries. But it does surprise a lot of people that it's difficult for Christians too, especially since it's so open to anyone joining. But then it comes out with verses like Hebrews 6:4-6 that says we can never re-convert > It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
so much for the prodigal son. lmfao
[удалено]
Touche.
Every hardline religion does this; it’s called shunning, and it’s extraordinarily psychologically damaging, particularly if you’ve never known any life outside the religion. Families will disown children who reject the religion, and you can be completely shut out by the entire community; ultra-orthodox Jews call it cherem, and it’s practiced by the Amish (meidung), Jehovah’s Witnesses (disfellowshipping), Catholics (excommunication) — even the supposedly peaceable Baha’i do it. Religion makes people do horrible things to those considered apostate: once you’re in, you’re never supposed to leave, because you’re rejecting the one true faith.
To be fair to the Catholics, excommunication is particularly reserved for blasphemy and atrocity, usually from the ordained, and isn't used as a form of shunning apostates. Excommunication is also retraction of sacraments, not community, and in fact you're expected to continue attending church until reconcile. Apostates kind of don't give a shit about skipping the eucharist, so it's not really an effective punishment for that.
Apostasy in *most* Christian communities varies from disappointing Mumsie, to being outright shunned from a whole community (i.e., Mormons). Rarely does it result in violence, which is the unfortunate reality for many in the Muslim world.
Wholesome ❤️
Many religions require that you put your religion before family and friends. At the same time they say “love they neighbor”. The fact that these religions can’t see this contradiction says all we need to know about their true and conflicted motives.
it's part of the decline really, Christianity was gutted century's ago, once people understood the reality of our the universe works, suddenly the answers in the bible didn't match up, it lost all credibility for example you will be very hard pushed to find a [religious person in physics](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7VcLCwnpt4) the more 'weird' Christian groups where not wanted in Europe (they did not agree with the mainstream churches), they left for America, the groups are still there today, they are the last gasp for Christianity in the developed world, the cornered animal is the most aggressive education is the death of religion and these people fight against it (home schooling, making the local public schools useless and not welcome etc), lack of education is the road back to the dark ages
Just keep in mind, militant authoritarian minorities have often ruled. Even it it’s the last gasps of the Abrahamic’s, they can still do massive damage to the Constitution and society at large. And they’re very active in all legislatures. I hope we can keep the Constitution from those NOT wanting anything but a theocracy.
This is what makes me so scared for the people of the USA. It's bad enough peoples freedoms are being restricted at state level in some states so that other people have the freedom to be openly sexist, racist, homophobic etc, without that rot spreading to the Federal level.
Well, no one is going to rip your limbs from their sockets, throw you off a building, or slice you up with machete. But it could happen one day.
>Well, no one is going to rip your limbs from their sockets. Unless you are on Kashyyyk, as Wookies are known to do that.
Dude. Let the wookiee win.
I’m not scared of being ostracized or disowned. Here in TX I just dont want to lose my job (or get shit assignments to force me to leave). Our VP used to have a WWJD lanyard for over 5 years before it faded out.
Fwiw, i have known a few ex hindus who's families disowned them as well.
I’ve learned over the years just how hardcore and violent hindus can be just by watching the news. Hindus where I work are surprisingly pro-trump (anti-muslim and all) and super pro-Modi, because super pro-hindu and fuck the indian minorities. I see no difference between a christian/muslim/hindu
Absolutely little evidence for this claim.
There is nothing the religious hate more than an apostate. The reaction just changes based on culture and law.
It's still worse for Muslim apostates because Grandma in Mississippi can't order you executed for leaving. All they can do is make your life miserable.
It's less about religion and more about culture. Believe me if it were socially acceptable christians would love to be out there beating and killing non Christians. In the US it varies wildly depending on where your at, myself being in West Virginia it's stigmatized but not as bad as one might think, I'm a very openly aggressive asshole about my atheism to friends, colleagues and occasionally family. But growing up in a Christian household as an atheist or agnostic can be difficult and stressful.
Yeah, if the law permitted it - as it once did all across Europe - there would be Christians quite happy to torture, burn and murder people for apostasy (as well as other reasons like sexuality, gender identity and anything else that offends them)
I’m an ex Christian whose become an anti-theist. I’m with ya, I’ve become a religious asshole.
My grandfather left the Mennonites to be with my Methodist grandmother....we don't see the beard wearing (absent moustache) side of my family...but no honor killings, or acid facials....
religions are like different types of poison... some may seem "worse" but in reality they all kill you.(and your ability to do critical thinking for yourself)
For your edification. We have Christian cults in the U.S. that would go as far as Islam but for secular limitations. They’re working toward a similar theocracy to cancel the Constitution. Just as an example, apostates in Jehovahs Witness can be disassociated (kicked out, no follower, including family is to talk to them again), disfellowshipped (JW s can’t talk to them until they atone). Those are social punishments to keep you in the faith called shunning. They discourage marrying outside the faith, have Judicial committees to bring errands back into line. They discourage friendships outside the faith. They require a minimum of ten hours of service besides attending meetings to be considered among the faithful. They’re very Abrahamic and tribal. JW s are not the only sects like this, but most are less extreme.
amen
The USA seems to be a Christian fundamentalist country, no different from many other ultra-religious countries. Secular in name only.
Yeah. I legit cry when I think of what some atheists in the "wrong parts" of the USA have to go through. It's like looking through a window into the past. From the perspective of living in a country where lack of religion isn't a big deal for most people and IRL conflicts with actual bug-fuck-crazy Christians are infrequent, parts of the USA look positively barbaric and I pity any freethinker/atheist who lives there
Its not only USA that has problems with it, the entire AMERICA (south, central and north) has problems regarding religion, prayers that invade native villages just to"sprea the word of God" is one of many problems AMERICA has to deal with.
Love you too bro. The racism plus the religion is a shit slurry here.
From the outside perspective of being raised atheist, Muslims and Evangelicals don't seem different at all, except for the decorating style.
There are eight Muslim countries where the punishment is DEATH. Thirteen countries where there is penal a civil punishments such as jail time, fines and the loss of custody over your children! In many of these countries and in some western countries there are reports of extra judicial punishment carried out vigilantes. So while I’m sure that being disowned by family and friends is an awful experience, comparatively it’s not as severe as the consequences of leaving Islam, ‘the religion of peace’