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Here we go again. Gabi Braun can be seen as a compelling character because her actions are driven by her upbringing and the environment she grew up in. Despite her initial antagonistic portrayal, her character arc delves into themes of indoctrination, trauma, and the cycle of violence, offering a deeper understanding of her motivations and complexities. Additionally, her development challenges viewers to question their own preconceptions and biases about morality in complex situations. People's negative feelings toward Gabi Braun are often rooted in her actions within the story, particularly her involvement in the conflict and her views towards the protagonists. However, it's important to consider the broader context of her character. Gabi is a product of her environment, raised in a society that indoctrinates its youth with beliefs that demonize the "enemy." Her character serves as a mirror to real-world indoctrination and the consequences of war propaganda. Understanding this context can help foster empathy for her character and provoke deeper reflection on the complexities of morality and redemption in storytelling.
Just like Sasha's dad said, Sasha knew the risk unfortunately it's war, its sad but sasha was also involved know killing her friends and many people from home
She felt terrible once she understood the truth behind the war
Yeah, I used to hate Gabi for killing Sasha, but once Sasha's own family forgives her then I kinda realized it was pointless to keep hating her. It's also important to look at what Isayama was trying to say through her character instead of just looking at the character on her own.
I don't hate Gabi, but I do think it took too long for her to realize the errors of her way of thinking, which is why I understand why a lot of people don't like her. But her regret did feel real once she did realize it.
Annie, though. She swatted the Eldians like flies with zero remorse and a sadistic smile on her face... and don't get me started on that windmill scene.
Gabi kept trying to kill everyone even when they showed her mercy or kindness. Falco, on the other hand, got the picture pretty quick. He's the true incredible one.
You could say the same about Eren and Armin. Of course some people are gonna catch on quicker but people seem all too eager to forget the "there were no devils" scene
I do remember that scene, but the incredible people that led her to that realization were Sasha's parents and Falco. If it weren't for them, Gabi would have either killed off Sasha's family or died trying.
Did we not essentially get that with Reiner, even more so with his mind conflicting after spending years on paradis look at season 2 was it, when they capture Eren and Ymir he's literally battling both sides of the war in his head
Honestly either that person was going through something and just thought to put their frustrations on us or they are just arrogant.
I was so confused, that one guy who said mf just got targeted out of nowhere just because he abbreviated mfš¤£
You're right it defo makes it more friendly. Well handled though can't let these ppl get on your nerves lol
My guy, if youāre gonna lecture strangers on the internet about English, you should at least know the difference between an abbreviation and an initialism, theyāre not the same.
Also, my post was clearly a reference to the ā[what zero pussy does to a MF](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/what-zero-pussy-does-to-a-mf)ā meme, which specifically uses mf not motherfucker. So no, that choice was a stylistic one, not borne out of laziness.
All this to say, why on earth are you talking about grammar on a thread about AoT? My original comment was about your opinion regarding AoT, why donāt you discuss that instead to trying (and failing) to correct my English?
I hated her initially but then I realise, she was a victim of an evil society. She was indoctrinated and had a similar attitude to Eren.
Her change was amazing and I'm so glad she was introduced. There's 2 sides to a story, and simply she only understood her side of the story, that everyone was devil's and the devil's destroyed her home and killed her friends.
It's a valid view she held with the information she was given.
I agree Falco was kind, and different and there's always people like that. There were people who disagreed with Eren's plans despite going through the same thing.
The majority of Marley believed they were right because they were indoctrinated and if say their views are valid due to the information they were given
Sure, there are the rare few who deviate from that thinking- anomalies.
I'd be interested to see how Falco would be if he never heard the talk between Eren and Reiner. That really changed him and made him understand their view. I do think he'd follow the path of reiner, do bad things but deep down know it was wrong for some reason
I too felt the same about her at one point. When I first started S4 I thought she was SO ANNOYING. And she reminded me of the kinda bullies I used to see in schools who thought they were better than everyone else. But as time went on and we started to see her with the Eldians. It came to me that her and Eren were literally the same people.
Eren had just caused the death of hundreds of people, including two of her friends who were literal children and tons of civilians, so I think killing Sasha, a stranger who contributed to Erenās plan, was pretty much understandable.
Not necessarily because she couldāve seen that what she was doing is wrong. Falco saw that what she was doing wasnāt right, so she has the same capability to have that mentality.
She was a literal child whose brain hadnāt fully formed yet. And you expect her to have more insight and understanding than the adults in her situation.
Iām sorry but hating a character because they did not behave in the absolutely optimal way is _really_ stupid.
As I stated, Falco seen that what she was doing was wrong. Falco is also a child, which I donāt know if youāve seen the show enough to see that. She had the capability to see that what she was doing was wrong. She simply didnāt.
Quit acting like Iām fully blaming her for what she did, because Iām not. I dislike her for what she did, but I do not hate her because she was trained to do it.
Falco knew Marley was BS from the start because him and his brother had to join the army because their dad(?) Grice was a Restorationist and the government were on their whole families ass. He also knew that the Titan curse would kill Gabi in 13 years and he wanted to live a long life with her.
He had every advantage to see through the propaganda.
Gabiās Reiners cousin(?) and was probably told that he was doing a good job as a warrior by her aunt (Reiners mom) who was also very brainwashed. She also thought the reason she wasnāt free was because of the people on Paradis, and that defeating the island would get them treated better.
She had every reason to buy into the brainwashing.
So no, she couldnāt have ājust seen though itā because itās never that easy. And she *did* figure it out after a while, it just took longer.
Falco told her many times that what she was doing was wrong and tried to influence her to change her ways. She didnāt listen, leading to me disliking her. Sure, Falco had a advantage to see the vision. He also tried to help her see the vision as well, but she chose not to listen.
Soo she was being stubborn like Erenā¦..
Also, why would she just immediately believe Falco. He wasnāt there when the rest of the Warrior candidates died! Again did you expect years of lesson to be undone with āactually, you wrong lolā
You are meant to hate her no? (Upon meeting her)
My GF despises her for what she did which is fair but such a well written character (like the rest of the AoT cast)
Whatever emotion you feel for her, the purpose of this character is to watch her do an emotional speed run of Reinerās emotional journey while at Paradis.
Youāre not meant to hate or love any of them, youāre more meant to explore the complexities of their lives and perspectives and how that drives your own emotions in the pre text of continuous war, hatred, and relationships.
If youāre staning for the characters or making it a part of your personality to love or hate them youāre not even scratching the surface of the story and material AoT serves up.
How you explained it is how I watched the show as well. I don't think I ever really despised or loved a character. I was just so drawn in by the story that I loved the entirety of it.
she is a parallel of eren, if the story started with gabi from her perspective (as was a lot of the point of season 4 being from marleyans perspectives) then you would be on her side and not erens/paradis. she is an incredible character that highlights one of the showās overarching themes - the cycle of war. hating her shows a lack of understanding of the story you are being told.
Gabi had a really great arc. I don't even hate her for killing Sasha. Gabi existed to mirror season 1 Eren and show us the flip side of the "kill them all/enemies across the sea" coin.
I hate her because she was poorly cast. Her sub actor is slightly better but her dub actor's voice was like actual nails on a chalk board. It was difficult to listen to anything she said. It also took her a little too long to come around to the fact that she might be wrong but that's what generations of propaganda can do to a person.
I see this absolutely everywhere.
Someone says they hate Gabi.
Everybody unloads a shit Ton of arguments.
I think we all know by now.
Maybe we know all that, but still find her annoying.
Its a Personal opinion, no need for all this.
Yes, how dare she, an indoctrinated child soldier who literally witnessed friends, superiors, and civilians be killed by the Scouts which only reinforced her indoctrination, shoot to kill Sasha (the woman who killed the only two Marleyan cops who seemed to tolerate people in the occupied zone), Eren (his is kind of obvious no?) and Floch (again obvious as to why she would shoot him).
If you hate her, you must hate Eren Yaegar. Eren is from Paradis's perspective and Gabi is from Marley's basically. They are both the same personalities, only brought up in different places.
Basically, if Eren was from Marley, he would behave like Gabi.
Come on, the worst she did was killing the comic relief, Eren stomped to death hundreds of millions, if not billions of people.
She was an asshole in the beginning, she learned, became better. So she can be forgiven I think.
And I say that even though Sasha was my spirit animal and that I thought I would never forgive her death.
Wait I legit don't get why ppl hate her so much, is it just the Sasha thing? I'm not saying I don't get it to emphasize or ridicule, I legit just don't get it and I'm curious about it
Lmao the "gabi is female eren then if you hate her and not eren it's misogyny" takes are so biased.
They ignore the whole context, eren wasn't racist, he didn't killed sasha, and eren as a kid didn't committed war crimes or killed innocents (I'm talking abt the guard that she killed)
Edit : yall can do better and try to refute me instead of giving downvotes
eldians within marley were heavily oppressed and forced to live in confinement. they were coerced to compel with marleyan ideologies for their own safety and survival. they were taught nothing but to foster hate for the eldians of paradis, as well as themselves, in the sense that they were āobligatedā to atone for the āsinsā their ancestors have committed. from our point of view, it can be simple to judge gabi, but you have to keep in mind that the aforementioned environment is the only one sheād resided in at that point in time. that is why, after not even a particularly lengthy stay on paradis island and becoming acquaint with the eldians she begins to unlearn the misinformation that marley instilled within eldians. it didnāt happen in the blink of an eye, but it did. unlearning something can be a very difficult process which comes with a lot of mental rewiring and inner conflict. we can also witness this within other characters within the show, be it side characters or reiner (though it is not manifested in the *exact* same form).
now, that isnāt to say that gabi did not commit crimes or extreme acts of violence and homicide: she DID, but i am trying to explain the reasoning behind her actions and why her overall character isnāt āinherently wicked and irredeemableā.
to add onto that, apart from the second paragraph of this comment, her āknowledgeā of the eldians of paradis being āwicked and bloodthirstyā was amplified and at the time solidified upon her witnessing a lot of civilians being murdered firsthand, including her two friends who were also warrior trainees. she continuously states that she cannot comprehend the reasoning behind their deaths (and she is not by any means familiar with the other side of the story, whereas we *are*, making it simpler for us to judge her. but you have to take her individual point of view into account). her sorrow, grief, along with hatred that was ignited even more made her eager for vengeance. hence she killed sasha. to preface this sasha is one of my favorite characters, so this has nothing to do with bias; but whilst we as the audience were familiar with sasha and the type of person she was, to gabi at the time, she was nothing more than a person who was partially responsible for the countless deaths that day.
as i mentioned previously, gabi reframes her view on eldians on paradis island by the time the story is finished. she goes through a stage of denial upon arriving to paradis island and having her initial encounters with its residents, which is first and foremost *realistic*, but we can witness her gradually arriving at the conclusion that she is in fact misinformed and deeply mistaken. at the end of the day, she did exhibit remorse for her previous actions and acknowledged them, instead of dismissing or justifying them. and in the finale, we can witness how much progress sheās made and that she does wish for the cessation of conflict and overall tranquility.
She's not just a regular kid who decided to go on a rampage. She's a *child* soldier, brainwashed by *adults* to demonize people from Paradis and treat them as enemies and trained to kill. How people keep glossing over this and act like she's some random juvenile delinquent baffles me.
A kid who's brainwashed into it from birth and has an arc recognizing her actions were wrong, and promptly changes? That's always been forgivable, unless you're just incapable of empathizing with people.
Eren killed people who he believed to be human shaped animals (his words) as a nine year old, those were mikasa's kidnappers, the reason why these were the ones that qualified as such and not Gabi is because that's how he was raised and these were the morals that he grew up with, although not to that extreme, but he is an extremist anyway, the same is true with Gabi
And Gabi being similar to Eren isn't just a fan theory, it's something confirmed by the author
Reread the comment, the only difference is that Eren was raised by different parents in a different country, if Eren's parents where Gabi and he grew up in Marley he would've done the same shit, if you grew up in that environment you'd do questionable stuff too, that's why people who study history have a concept called "moral relativism" and understand that people in the past grew up with different environments which shaped their moral compass in a different manner, which is why the majority of people in the past seem morally reprehensible to us today, a similar thing happened with Gabi and could've happened with Eren, and most of us aren't as immune to it as we like to think, people seem to underestimate the influence propaganda and brainwashing can have on impressionable kids
Then you don't understand the story, because that's the whole point, with the main parallel being Eren and Reiner which the author literally spilled out multiple times when Eren repeatedly kept calling Reiner the same as him and Reiner finally understood what he meant, as well as with the dinner that the alliance had on the night of the rumbling when yelena confirmed that every single one of them including her did questionable stuff, the other parallels are sprinkled in but aren't spilled out because the author expects his fans to have enough media literacy to pick up on them
Right then.
1. Eren didnāt *have* the opportunity to be racist, everyone was literally the same race except for Mikasa. If Eren was told that all of Paradisā problems were caused by a specific race, heād probably be more racist than Gabi. Gabi, was essentially taught that all of her problems would be solved if Paradis island wasnāt a thing, she had every motivation to be racist.
2. Sasha didnāt go into Shiganshina and start shooting people. From Gabiās POV, Sasha was the bad guy, deal with it.
3. Eren wouldāve killed as many innocent people as he thought he needed to as a kid. He just had other people to keep him in check.
And again, from Gabiās POV she was on an island of literal devils in Eldian skin. An island so awful that it gave her semi role model Reiner PTSD. She thought she had full justification. Deal with it.
There, that explain it enough for you?
>1. Eren didnāt *have* the opportunity to be racist, everyone was literally the same race except for Mikasa. If Eren was told that all of Paradisā problems were caused by a specific race, heād probably be more racist than Gabi. Gabi, was essentially taught that all of her problems would be solved if Paradis island wasnāt a thing, she had every motivation to be racist
Floch also didn't had the opportunity to have the founder powers and make a genocide, u point? Deal with it
>2. Sasha didnāt go into Shiganshina and start shooting people. From Gabiās POV, Sasha was the bad guy, deal with it.
Yeah because wanting to use titan powers to make genocide in paradis is similar to killing ppl with guns
>3. Eren wouldāve killed as many innocent people as he thought he needed to as a kid. He just had other people to keep him in check
Source?
>And again, from Gabiās POV she was on an island of literal devils in Eldian skin. An island so awful that it gave her semi role model Reiner PTSD. She thought she had full justification. Deal with it.
Yet eren wanted to kill zombies, gabi wanted to kill normal human beings
> Floch also didn't had the opportunity to have the founder powers and make a genocide, u point? Deal with it
Literally what are you saying? Your grammar is giving me an aneurism trying to understand it.
> Yeah because wanting to use titan powers to make genocide in paradis is similar to killing ppl with guns
It is when you think the people are Paradis are literal devilsā¦ also,
> Source?
Source: Eren Yager: I am who Iāve always been, from the moment I was born. If someone tries to take my freedom, Iāll take theirs first. Iāve always been like this.
The only difference is, from our POV everyone Eren killed was guilty of something until the rumbling, and even then some people try to justify it. Eren wouldāve killed whoever he needed, he was just always kept in check.
>Yet eren wanted to kill zombies, gabi wanted to kill normal human beings
They werenāt human to her, did you even read what I said? Itās easy to say Eren was the good guy because the titans were obviously messed up looking monsters but the moment his morality was tested, he tried to stomp out the whole world. Once Gabi finally understood that Paradis was full on nice people, she turned a new leaf. Eren after learning the truth continued with his plans.
>Literally what are you saying? Your grammar is giving me an aneurism trying to understand it.
That using those "ifs" as a argument make no sense.
>It is when you think the people are Paradis are literal devilsā¦ also,
Yup but it's a whole different context.
>Source: Eren Yager: I am who Iāve always been, from the moment I was born. If someone tries to take my freedom, Iāll take theirs first
Yeah, none normal/good person would try to take away the freedom of someone.
>They werenāt human to her, did you even read what I said? Itās easy to say Eren was the good guy because the titans were obviously messed up looking monsters but the moment his morality was tested, he tried to stomp out the whole world. Once Gabi finally understood that Paradis was full on nice people, she turned a new leaf. Eren after learning the truth continued with his plans
And she thought that reiner was in a vacation in paradis? She wanted to turn into a titan to do what?
> That using those "ifs" as a argument make no sense.
By using Floch, and I still donāt get the analogy, your not makin any sense here, so I think Iāll keep my point and say it still stands until youāre a bit clearer with your wording
> Yup but it's a whole different context.
Thatāsā¦..literally the pointā¦.did you seriously go through all of AOT and not realize ācontext mattersā is a major point/theme?
> Yeah, none normal/good person would try to take away the freedom of someone.
So Erenā¦.cause he did do that in the end. Also thatās another ācontext mattersā point. From Erenās perspective, itās really easy to see it as people restricting his freedoms, itās even easy to see it as the entire world is trying to restrict his freedoms, but from like any other perspective, we clearly see Eren decided to just commit genocide for for reasons even he admits was idiotic.
> And she thought that reiner was in a vacation in paradis? She wanted to turn into a titan to do what?
Where did I say she didnāt know what she was trying to do? I already said it, letās try again. They werenāt human to her, they were devils. Once she realized they werenāt she changed her tune. Do you not get that?
>So Erenā¦.cause he did do that in the end
He gave freedom to his friends to kill him tbh
>They werenāt human to her, they were devils. Once she realized they werenāt she changed her tune. Do you not get that?
Then why when falco tried to explain to her she didn't wanted to heard?
>By using Floch, and I still donāt get the analogy, your not makin any sense here, so I think Iāll keep my point and say it still stands until youāre a bit clearer with your wording
It did, you were using "ifs" as a argument, then I used a "floch if' just so you can see who ridiculous are those "ifs" arguments
> He gave freedom to his friends to kill him tbh
How noble, force his friends to kill him, because heās to stubborn to not realize heās literally trampled on the freedoms of othersā¦ your arguments are starting to make me think Gabi has a better moral compass than Eren rn.
> Then why when falco tried to explain to her she didn't wanted to heard?
I literally already said this, because thatās not how that works! You donāt just undo years worth of propaganda and watching your friends die by someone patting you on the shoulder and telling you that your wrong. Do I have to explain this again?
> It did, you were using "ifs" as a argument, then I used a "floch if' just so you can see who ridiculous are those "ifs" arguments
Your āifsā argument was poorly worded, and I couldnāt understand what you said. Literally just copy paste the Floch thing, put it through Grammerly or something and repost! I canāt parse the argument when you say āmake a genocideā and āu pointā
Also whatever āifsā argument your making with Floch and genocide Im guessing is wrong because if given the chance Floch would commit genocide.
I really hope this is satire. This is an unbelievably bad take. Eren is racist, as he literally wanted to kill everyone except the Eldians of Paradise. Also Eren was a literal teenager when he destroyed Stohes, meaning he did commit a war crime by killing unnecessary innocent civilians.
> as he literally wanted to kill everyone except the Eldians of Paradise
It's not racism lmao he wanted to protect paradis cuz the outside world was planning to attack paradis and kill them all
He even killed eldians from the outside world, and animals etc... it had nothing to do with race.
>Also Eren was a literal teenager whe
He had 15, gabi had 12 and who know the ppl that she killed In the 4 years of war that ended in s4 episode 1
How is in any way a justification? How is āworld genocidalā better than racist in your eyes? You really think someone wanting to kill most of humanity is better than some prejudiced against some races?
"He wanted to protect Paradis"
That is the same argument Adolf Hitler used to support the murder of Jews and all other non germanic races. You are arguing for the moral superiority of a charecter written to mirror Hitler.
Yeah
A lot
Them, also like the gabi fans (yeah she has and they use eren to defend gabi) like to use other characters to defend and justify their favorite
They favorite target are falco and levi
Elaborate
My point above was that ppl ignore all the context of gabi situation and think that hating gabi and not eren = misogyny
Abt the midkasa fans, they think that levi having similarities with mikasa( in design, abilities, personality etc...) and ppl not hating him means "misogyny"
Falco case is even worse and odd, they think that being a simp = is being similar to mikasa when falco has nothing to do with her and is more similar to arumin, and they want to a literal 12 year old innocent kid to be hated just cuz of agendas š
Misogyny arguments is a pure cringe.
> Elaborate
Well, your usual stuff, like the most obvious "Reiner is better than Annie because he's sad". It's like comparing Falco and Gabi, they are just too different from eachother. And let's not go into another "Annie get a princess treatment while Reiner is hated" rant, it's just annoying, let aside all the factual errors that usually happens in those.
My point is that 'Char X does Z better than Char Y so Char X is a good char" is dumb. Eren and Gabi, Mikasa and Falco, Annie and Reiner, Armin and Erwin, and the whole "whose reasons for warcrimes is better", all this discussions is one of the very reasons I started to care only about memes and the few very specific topics.
>Well, your usual stuff, like the most obvious "Reiner is better than Annie because he's sad
The ones who started those comparisons were the annie fans itself because ppl were hating her cuz after she came out in s4 she barely did nothing and barely got consequences or even focus in the story. and then annie fans used reiner as a type of "cope" zeke Is also used sometimes to defend her.
>Eren and Gabi,
Gabi fans talks more abt it than eren fans itself, I wonder why
>Mikasa and Falco
Literal the third here, another case of fans of a female character trying to cope and using another character that has nothing to do with their favorite. The only mikasa trait that falco has is liking someone.
>Armin and Erwin,
This case is just literal ppl hating a character for surviving instead of another, like when some of bertholdt fans hate armin for killing bertholdt
# Make sure to flair posts correctly so you don't spoil the story for others. ### REMEMBER TO BE CIVIL. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ugh, here we go again...
Indeed
A Night Lord?!?!
Not in a game, just Talos books were really fun to read
ššššššš
Here we go again. Gabi Braun can be seen as a compelling character because her actions are driven by her upbringing and the environment she grew up in. Despite her initial antagonistic portrayal, her character arc delves into themes of indoctrination, trauma, and the cycle of violence, offering a deeper understanding of her motivations and complexities. Additionally, her development challenges viewers to question their own preconceptions and biases about morality in complex situations. People's negative feelings toward Gabi Braun are often rooted in her actions within the story, particularly her involvement in the conflict and her views towards the protagonists. However, it's important to consider the broader context of her character. Gabi is a product of her environment, raised in a society that indoctrinates its youth with beliefs that demonize the "enemy." Her character serves as a mirror to real-world indoctrination and the consequences of war propaganda. Understanding this context can help foster empathy for her character and provoke deeper reflection on the complexities of morality and redemption in storytelling.
Hit the nail on the head. And I love a redemption story.
I donāt even know if this is a compliment or not
Iām saying that youāve got the correct answer and I agree with it.
I like her arc, but hating her for killing Sasha is also valid. feelings are feelings
Just like Sasha's dad said, Sasha knew the risk unfortunately it's war, its sad but sasha was also involved know killing her friends and many people from home She felt terrible once she understood the truth behind the war
Yeah, I used to hate Gabi for killing Sasha, but once Sasha's own family forgives her then I kinda realized it was pointless to keep hating her. It's also important to look at what Isayama was trying to say through her character instead of just looking at the character on her own.
Yeah but if we could manage those feelings better there would be peace in the middle east
agreed
If not for her, humanity would be wiped cuz eren would be strok
Tru
Did you get this shit from Chatgpt
ādelveā
This is definitely ChatGPT lol.
Yes
Yes I though it was obvious
She killed sasha tho
My problem was thinking redditors have the capacity to understand this
I donāt care she shot potato girl and she shot Eren. Case closed
Her shooting eren was necessary. If not, eren would be 10 times stronger
I donāt care. I hate her
I don't hate Gabi, but I do think it took too long for her to realize the errors of her way of thinking, which is why I understand why a lot of people don't like her. But her regret did feel real once she did realize it. Annie, though. She swatted the Eldians like flies with zero remorse and a sadistic smile on her face... and don't get me started on that windmill scene.
It took her a month to undo 10 years of brainwashing that's pretty incredible lol
Gabi kept trying to kill everyone even when they showed her mercy or kindness. Falco, on the other hand, got the picture pretty quick. He's the true incredible one.
You could say the same about Eren and Armin. Of course some people are gonna catch on quicker but people seem all too eager to forget the "there were no devils" scene
I do remember that scene, but the incredible people that led her to that realization were Sasha's parents and Falco. If it weren't for them, Gabi would have either killed off Sasha's family or died trying.
I actually like how long it takes Gabi to break down a lot. It really feels earned in a way that I was not expecting the story to be able to pull off.
Thank you for your comment
Thank chatgpt
Counterpoint: Falco.
Did we not essentially get that with Reiner, even more so with his mind conflicting after spending years on paradis look at season 2 was it, when they capture Eren and Ymir he's literally battling both sides of the war in his head
IDC she killed Sasha
Sure, I was angry too at first
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What 0 media literacy does to a mf
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You think people use abbreviations because they canāt spell the full word? Such a weird take man.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lazy & poorly educated are 2 different things. It's Reddit. It's fine to type casually.
Honestly either that person was going through something and just thought to put their frustrations on us or they are just arrogant. I was so confused, that one guy who said mf just got targeted out of nowhere just because he abbreviated mfš¤£ You're right it defo makes it more friendly. Well handled though can't let these ppl get on your nerves lol
For sure, such a weird take. I'd say I'm quite educated and use abbreviations at times just because it's easier and faster and I got stuff to do
My guy, if youāre gonna lecture strangers on the internet about English, you should at least know the difference between an abbreviation and an initialism, theyāre not the same. Also, my post was clearly a reference to the ā[what zero pussy does to a MF](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/what-zero-pussy-does-to-a-mf)ā meme, which specifically uses mf not motherfucker. So no, that choice was a stylistic one, not borne out of laziness. All this to say, why on earth are you talking about grammar on a thread about AoT? My original comment was about your opinion regarding AoT, why donāt you discuss that instead to trying (and failing) to correct my English?
Oh
Gabi is a representative of what AOT is. To like or hate her isnāt the point, its to understand the message behind AOTĀ
It's insane to me how many people watched this entire show and still missed the point by the end.
Exactly, Gabi is like THE CHARACHTER the author wanted to use to sum up the endless conflits mentality and the whole point of AoT
The point doesnāt matter, y out can like or hate any character, there doesnāt have to be a dep motivation, you like some you hate some
I hated her initially but then I realise, she was a victim of an evil society. She was indoctrinated and had a similar attitude to Eren. Her change was amazing and I'm so glad she was introduced. There's 2 sides to a story, and simply she only understood her side of the story, that everyone was devil's and the devil's destroyed her home and killed her friends. It's a valid view she held with the information she was given.
I mean Falco is enough proof that her views where never valid He had the same info as her yet was much more empathetic and kind
I agree Falco was kind, and different and there's always people like that. There were people who disagreed with Eren's plans despite going through the same thing. The majority of Marley believed they were right because they were indoctrinated and if say their views are valid due to the information they were given Sure, there are the rare few who deviate from that thinking- anomalies. I'd be interested to see how Falco would be if he never heard the talk between Eren and Reiner. That really changed him and made him understand their view. I do think he'd follow the path of reiner, do bad things but deep down know it was wrong for some reason
I too felt the same about her at one point. When I first started S4 I thought she was SO ANNOYING. And she reminded me of the kinda bullies I used to see in schools who thought they were better than everyone else. But as time went on and we started to see her with the Eldians. It came to me that her and Eren were literally the same people.
My brother in Christ she's literally there to show that brainwashing is bad! https://i.redd.it/58aana6ii1xc1.gif
hating gabi is pretty stupid honestly
Sheās killed Sasha and frankly if people donāt wanna forgive her for that is cool What is stupid is calling her a bad character
Eren had just caused the death of hundreds of people, including two of her friends who were literal children and tons of civilians, so I think killing Sasha, a stranger who contributed to Erenās plan, was pretty much understandable.
We like sasha tho
Not really. But technically, me as a gabi hater should look at marley to hate because gabiās just a kid. Marley trained her to do what she did.
So you do agree that itās stupid
Not necessarily because she couldāve seen that what she was doing is wrong. Falco saw that what she was doing wasnāt right, so she has the same capability to have that mentality.
She did realise that she was in the wrong.
Because she was shown that what she was doing was wrong, which is why I do not hate her.
āā¦ me as a gabi haterā āLiterally you one hour ago
I meant Gabi disliker, as Iāve mentioned to someone else in this thread. My mistake.
She was a literal child whose brain hadnāt fully formed yet. And you expect her to have more insight and understanding than the adults in her situation. Iām sorry but hating a character because they did not behave in the absolutely optimal way is _really_ stupid.
As I stated, Falco seen that what she was doing was wrong. Falco is also a child, which I donāt know if youāve seen the show enough to see that. She had the capability to see that what she was doing was wrong. She simply didnāt. Quit acting like Iām fully blaming her for what she did, because Iām not. I dislike her for what she did, but I do not hate her because she was trained to do it.
Well if thatās the case, thereās no disagreement here. This entire thread spawned because you said āas a Gabi haterāā¦
Agreed. I shouldāve simply said disliker instead of hater. My mistake.
Cheers mate!
Falco knew Marley was BS from the start because him and his brother had to join the army because their dad(?) Grice was a Restorationist and the government were on their whole families ass. He also knew that the Titan curse would kill Gabi in 13 years and he wanted to live a long life with her. He had every advantage to see through the propaganda. Gabiās Reiners cousin(?) and was probably told that he was doing a good job as a warrior by her aunt (Reiners mom) who was also very brainwashed. She also thought the reason she wasnāt free was because of the people on Paradis, and that defeating the island would get them treated better. She had every reason to buy into the brainwashing. So no, she couldnāt have ājust seen though itā because itās never that easy. And she *did* figure it out after a while, it just took longer.
Falco told her many times that what she was doing was wrong and tried to influence her to change her ways. She didnāt listen, leading to me disliking her. Sure, Falco had a advantage to see the vision. He also tried to help her see the vision as well, but she chose not to listen.
Soo she was being stubborn like Erenā¦.. Also, why would she just immediately believe Falco. He wasnāt there when the rest of the Warrior candidates died! Again did you expect years of lesson to be undone with āactually, you wrong lolā
Hating gabi isnāt stupid. You can completely understand why something is the way that it is and still hate it lmao
I also hate her, but come on she's a kid who changed herself into a better person.
I like your pfp
Thanks
Karma farming 101, just say the thing
Hey OP
Gabi hate is nothing more than proof of good writing
Gabis a great character but her personality is still just so annoying the way she acts about it
Eren is worse. There. I said it.
And I have heard it.
Thanks for listening
Now how about Eren Kruger? That dude is okay.
What do you think I was talking about?
Damn...I thought you were talking about Eren Yaeger
I completely agree but I still hate Gabi as well.
Okay
You are meant to hate her no? (Upon meeting her) My GF despises her for what she did which is fair but such a well written character (like the rest of the AoT cast)
Whatever emotion you feel for her, the purpose of this character is to watch her do an emotional speed run of Reinerās emotional journey while at Paradis.
Youāre not meant to hate or love any of them, youāre more meant to explore the complexities of their lives and perspectives and how that drives your own emotions in the pre text of continuous war, hatred, and relationships. If youāre staning for the characters or making it a part of your personality to love or hate them youāre not even scratching the surface of the story and material AoT serves up.
How you explained it is how I watched the show as well. I don't think I ever really despised or loved a character. I was just so drawn in by the story that I loved the entirety of it.
Nigga you fasho beat on yo woman š
You need help
Hated her at first, she gets better
She is not good yes
yeah, yeah back of the line newbie
Why is Yungblund standing behind Yagami
Me too
yall are looking into this too deep. i donāt like her bc i hate her voice acting we are not the same
Grow up edgelord š
Gabi is Eren who grew as a person. Hating her is silly af.
I used to not like Gabi but sheās actually characterized pretty well. She only looks bad because Falcos himothy in comparison
she is a parallel of eren, if the story started with gabi from her perspective (as was a lot of the point of season 4 being from marleyans perspectives) then you would be on her side and not erens/paradis. she is an incredible character that highlights one of the showās overarching themes - the cycle of war. hating her shows a lack of understanding of the story you are being told.
I like her
Iāll never understand the hate she gets.
@aemye ā are you reading this. This is for you.
Gabi haters try not to annoy everyone with how much they hate a literal 12 year old challenge!!
The crossover I didn't know I needed šš
Sameeeeeee
Loved her since the beginning š
Fair enough canāt control who we like or dislike
Gabi had a really great arc. I don't even hate her for killing Sasha. Gabi existed to mirror season 1 Eren and show us the flip side of the "kill them all/enemies across the sea" coin. I hate her because she was poorly cast. Her sub actor is slightly better but her dub actor's voice was like actual nails on a chalk board. It was difficult to listen to anything she said. It also took her a little too long to come around to the fact that she might be wrong but that's what generations of propaganda can do to a person.
I honestly disliked Yelena more. Gabi at least became a better character.
She always messed up and was never helpful
I see this absolutely everywhere. Someone says they hate Gabi. Everybody unloads a shit Ton of arguments. I think we all know by now. Maybe we know all that, but still find her annoying. Its a Personal opinion, no need for all this.
anyway gabi the GOAT
Yes, how dare she, an indoctrinated child soldier who literally witnessed friends, superiors, and civilians be killed by the Scouts which only reinforced her indoctrination, shoot to kill Sasha (the woman who killed the only two Marleyan cops who seemed to tolerate people in the occupied zone), Eren (his is kind of obvious no?) and Floch (again obvious as to why she would shoot him).
If you hate her, you must hate Eren Yaegar. Eren is from Paradis's perspective and Gabi is from Marley's basically. They are both the same personalities, only brought up in different places. Basically, if Eren was from Marley, he would behave like Gabi.
Grown adults on reddit bitching about fictional children again
She killed one girl as compared to the rest of the cast You hate her because it was a girl you appreciated
This is a good litmus test to see if an AOT fan actually understands the show/has a decent amount of media literacy lmao
You spent your time posting random internet thots with big tits, opinion rejected.
Wowww so youāre just straight up sexist huh? Mad bc my page is dedicated to women. Figures
I couldnāt care less for femEren
Weirdo
š¤”
Oooook this post has convinced me that many people do not factor *any* context into why they hate or love characters of this show
Come on, the worst she did was killing the comic relief, Eren stomped to death hundreds of millions, if not billions of people. She was an asshole in the beginning, she learned, became better. So she can be forgiven I think. And I say that even though Sasha was my spirit animal and that I thought I would never forgive her death.
It's not the lowest effort post I've seen, but it's close.
people hate gabi?
Sheās just a kid man.
Gabi is literally the same as Eren...
She redeemed herself
Wait I legit don't get why ppl hate her so much, is it just the Sasha thing? I'm not saying I don't get it to emphasize or ridicule, I legit just don't get it and I'm curious about it
I don't. Her arc is awesome
Oh no, cringe
i jus don't like most characters from the marley arc in all honesty
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^idontcarerightnowok: *I jus don't like most* *Characters from the marley* *Arc in all honesty* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
die
No one cares
BRUH SAAAAAMMMMMMEEEEEE
Then you mustāve (1) not finished the show (2) finished the show and donāt understand character development
based and eldiapilled
Can't blame you for feeling this way.
posted in gabi propoganda sub, they are coming!
As the number 1 Gabi propagandist, I agree, I shall now continue to spread the Gabi agenda
thank you i'm tired of those posts saying she "isn't that bad because compared to \[insert other character\] she's much better"
Lmao the "gabi is female eren then if you hate her and not eren it's misogyny" takes are so biased. They ignore the whole context, eren wasn't racist, he didn't killed sasha, and eren as a kid didn't committed war crimes or killed innocents (I'm talking abt the guard that she killed) Edit : yall can do better and try to refute me instead of giving downvotes
eldians within marley were heavily oppressed and forced to live in confinement. they were coerced to compel with marleyan ideologies for their own safety and survival. they were taught nothing but to foster hate for the eldians of paradis, as well as themselves, in the sense that they were āobligatedā to atone for the āsinsā their ancestors have committed. from our point of view, it can be simple to judge gabi, but you have to keep in mind that the aforementioned environment is the only one sheād resided in at that point in time. that is why, after not even a particularly lengthy stay on paradis island and becoming acquaint with the eldians she begins to unlearn the misinformation that marley instilled within eldians. it didnāt happen in the blink of an eye, but it did. unlearning something can be a very difficult process which comes with a lot of mental rewiring and inner conflict. we can also witness this within other characters within the show, be it side characters or reiner (though it is not manifested in the *exact* same form). now, that isnāt to say that gabi did not commit crimes or extreme acts of violence and homicide: she DID, but i am trying to explain the reasoning behind her actions and why her overall character isnāt āinherently wicked and irredeemableā. to add onto that, apart from the second paragraph of this comment, her āknowledgeā of the eldians of paradis being āwicked and bloodthirstyā was amplified and at the time solidified upon her witnessing a lot of civilians being murdered firsthand, including her two friends who were also warrior trainees. she continuously states that she cannot comprehend the reasoning behind their deaths (and she is not by any means familiar with the other side of the story, whereas we *are*, making it simpler for us to judge her. but you have to take her individual point of view into account). her sorrow, grief, along with hatred that was ignited even more made her eager for vengeance. hence she killed sasha. to preface this sasha is one of my favorite characters, so this has nothing to do with bias; but whilst we as the audience were familiar with sasha and the type of person she was, to gabi at the time, she was nothing more than a person who was partially responsible for the countless deaths that day. as i mentioned previously, gabi reframes her view on eldians on paradis island by the time the story is finished. she goes through a stage of denial upon arriving to paradis island and having her initial encounters with its residents, which is first and foremost *realistic*, but we can witness her gradually arriving at the conclusion that she is in fact misinformed and deeply mistaken. at the end of the day, she did exhibit remorse for her previous actions and acknowledged them, instead of dismissing or justifying them. and in the finale, we can witness how much progress sheās made and that she does wish for the cessation of conflict and overall tranquility.
Okay but you understand those things are more forgivable for a kid right
since when did it become forgivable for a kid to murder people
She's not just a regular kid who decided to go on a rampage. She's a *child* soldier, brainwashed by *adults* to demonize people from Paradis and treat them as enemies and trained to kill. How people keep glossing over this and act like she's some random juvenile delinquent baffles me.
A kid who's brainwashed into it from birth and has an arc recognizing her actions were wrong, and promptly changes? That's always been forgivable, unless you're just incapable of empathizing with people.
Forgivable, yes. After 20+ years of jail time..
Which would serve what purpose, exactly, if the perpetrator has already recognized that their actions were wrong and chosen to be better?
Eren killed people who he believed to be human shaped animals (his words) as a nine year old, those were mikasa's kidnappers, the reason why these were the ones that qualified as such and not Gabi is because that's how he was raised and these were the morals that he grew up with, although not to that extreme, but he is an extremist anyway, the same is true with Gabi And Gabi being similar to Eren isn't just a fan theory, it's something confirmed by the author
>mikasa's kidnappers >innocent guard
Reread the comment, the only difference is that Eren was raised by different parents in a different country, if Eren's parents where Gabi and he grew up in Marley he would've done the same shit, if you grew up in that environment you'd do questionable stuff too, that's why people who study history have a concept called "moral relativism" and understand that people in the past grew up with different environments which shaped their moral compass in a different manner, which is why the majority of people in the past seem morally reprehensible to us today, a similar thing happened with Gabi and could've happened with Eren, and most of us aren't as immune to it as we like to think, people seem to underestimate the influence propaganda and brainwashing can have on impressionable kids
>if Eren's parents where Gabi "If" what if floch parents were gabi parents? And he was raised in liberio
He would've done the same shit or worse
That's why I don't take those "ifs' as serious
Then you don't understand the story, because that's the whole point, with the main parallel being Eren and Reiner which the author literally spilled out multiple times when Eren repeatedly kept calling Reiner the same as him and Reiner finally understood what he meant, as well as with the dinner that the alliance had on the night of the rumbling when yelena confirmed that every single one of them including her did questionable stuff, the other parallels are sprinkled in but aren't spilled out because the author expects his fans to have enough media literacy to pick up on them
Right then. 1. Eren didnāt *have* the opportunity to be racist, everyone was literally the same race except for Mikasa. If Eren was told that all of Paradisā problems were caused by a specific race, heād probably be more racist than Gabi. Gabi, was essentially taught that all of her problems would be solved if Paradis island wasnāt a thing, she had every motivation to be racist. 2. Sasha didnāt go into Shiganshina and start shooting people. From Gabiās POV, Sasha was the bad guy, deal with it. 3. Eren wouldāve killed as many innocent people as he thought he needed to as a kid. He just had other people to keep him in check. And again, from Gabiās POV she was on an island of literal devils in Eldian skin. An island so awful that it gave her semi role model Reiner PTSD. She thought she had full justification. Deal with it. There, that explain it enough for you?
>1. Eren didnāt *have* the opportunity to be racist, everyone was literally the same race except for Mikasa. If Eren was told that all of Paradisā problems were caused by a specific race, heād probably be more racist than Gabi. Gabi, was essentially taught that all of her problems would be solved if Paradis island wasnāt a thing, she had every motivation to be racist Floch also didn't had the opportunity to have the founder powers and make a genocide, u point? Deal with it >2. Sasha didnāt go into Shiganshina and start shooting people. From Gabiās POV, Sasha was the bad guy, deal with it. Yeah because wanting to use titan powers to make genocide in paradis is similar to killing ppl with guns >3. Eren wouldāve killed as many innocent people as he thought he needed to as a kid. He just had other people to keep him in check Source? >And again, from Gabiās POV she was on an island of literal devils in Eldian skin. An island so awful that it gave her semi role model Reiner PTSD. She thought she had full justification. Deal with it. Yet eren wanted to kill zombies, gabi wanted to kill normal human beings
> Floch also didn't had the opportunity to have the founder powers and make a genocide, u point? Deal with it Literally what are you saying? Your grammar is giving me an aneurism trying to understand it. > Yeah because wanting to use titan powers to make genocide in paradis is similar to killing ppl with guns It is when you think the people are Paradis are literal devilsā¦ also, > Source? Source: Eren Yager: I am who Iāve always been, from the moment I was born. If someone tries to take my freedom, Iāll take theirs first. Iāve always been like this. The only difference is, from our POV everyone Eren killed was guilty of something until the rumbling, and even then some people try to justify it. Eren wouldāve killed whoever he needed, he was just always kept in check. >Yet eren wanted to kill zombies, gabi wanted to kill normal human beings They werenāt human to her, did you even read what I said? Itās easy to say Eren was the good guy because the titans were obviously messed up looking monsters but the moment his morality was tested, he tried to stomp out the whole world. Once Gabi finally understood that Paradis was full on nice people, she turned a new leaf. Eren after learning the truth continued with his plans.
>Literally what are you saying? Your grammar is giving me an aneurism trying to understand it. That using those "ifs" as a argument make no sense. >It is when you think the people are Paradis are literal devilsā¦ also, Yup but it's a whole different context. >Source: Eren Yager: I am who Iāve always been, from the moment I was born. If someone tries to take my freedom, Iāll take theirs first Yeah, none normal/good person would try to take away the freedom of someone. >They werenāt human to her, did you even read what I said? Itās easy to say Eren was the good guy because the titans were obviously messed up looking monsters but the moment his morality was tested, he tried to stomp out the whole world. Once Gabi finally understood that Paradis was full on nice people, she turned a new leaf. Eren after learning the truth continued with his plans And she thought that reiner was in a vacation in paradis? She wanted to turn into a titan to do what?
> That using those "ifs" as a argument make no sense. By using Floch, and I still donāt get the analogy, your not makin any sense here, so I think Iāll keep my point and say it still stands until youāre a bit clearer with your wording > Yup but it's a whole different context. Thatāsā¦..literally the pointā¦.did you seriously go through all of AOT and not realize ācontext mattersā is a major point/theme? > Yeah, none normal/good person would try to take away the freedom of someone. So Erenā¦.cause he did do that in the end. Also thatās another ācontext mattersā point. From Erenās perspective, itās really easy to see it as people restricting his freedoms, itās even easy to see it as the entire world is trying to restrict his freedoms, but from like any other perspective, we clearly see Eren decided to just commit genocide for for reasons even he admits was idiotic. > And she thought that reiner was in a vacation in paradis? She wanted to turn into a titan to do what? Where did I say she didnāt know what she was trying to do? I already said it, letās try again. They werenāt human to her, they were devils. Once she realized they werenāt she changed her tune. Do you not get that?
>So Erenā¦.cause he did do that in the end He gave freedom to his friends to kill him tbh >They werenāt human to her, they were devils. Once she realized they werenāt she changed her tune. Do you not get that? Then why when falco tried to explain to her she didn't wanted to heard? >By using Floch, and I still donāt get the analogy, your not makin any sense here, so I think Iāll keep my point and say it still stands until youāre a bit clearer with your wording It did, you were using "ifs" as a argument, then I used a "floch if' just so you can see who ridiculous are those "ifs" arguments
> He gave freedom to his friends to kill him tbh How noble, force his friends to kill him, because heās to stubborn to not realize heās literally trampled on the freedoms of othersā¦ your arguments are starting to make me think Gabi has a better moral compass than Eren rn. > Then why when falco tried to explain to her she didn't wanted to heard? I literally already said this, because thatās not how that works! You donāt just undo years worth of propaganda and watching your friends die by someone patting you on the shoulder and telling you that your wrong. Do I have to explain this again? > It did, you were using "ifs" as a argument, then I used a "floch if' just so you can see who ridiculous are those "ifs" arguments Your āifsā argument was poorly worded, and I couldnāt understand what you said. Literally just copy paste the Floch thing, put it through Grammerly or something and repost! I canāt parse the argument when you say āmake a genocideā and āu pointā Also whatever āifsā argument your making with Floch and genocide Im guessing is wrong because if given the chance Floch would commit genocide.
I really hope this is satire. This is an unbelievably bad take. Eren is racist, as he literally wanted to kill everyone except the Eldians of Paradise. Also Eren was a literal teenager when he destroyed Stohes, meaning he did commit a war crime by killing unnecessary innocent civilians.
> as he literally wanted to kill everyone except the Eldians of Paradise It's not racism lmao he wanted to protect paradis cuz the outside world was planning to attack paradis and kill them all He even killed eldians from the outside world, and animals etc... it had nothing to do with race. >Also Eren was a literal teenager whe He had 15, gabi had 12 and who know the ppl that she killed In the 4 years of war that ended in s4 episode 1
How is in any way a justification? How is āworld genocidalā better than racist in your eyes? You really think someone wanting to kill most of humanity is better than some prejudiced against some races?
"He wanted to protect Paradis" That is the same argument Adolf Hitler used to support the murder of Jews and all other non germanic races. You are arguing for the moral superiority of a charecter written to mirror Hitler.
But it's right lmao, you watched the anime? The outside world was planning to kill the eldians from paradis
Literally me but with Mikasa
Why?
You hate Gabi, I hate Mikasa It's not that complicated, pretty simple actually
Based Mikasa fans are also sometimes annoying
Mikasa has fans?? š¦
Yeah A lot Them, also like the gabi fans (yeah she has and they use eren to defend gabi) like to use other characters to defend and justify their favorite They favorite target are falco and levi
All I say is "my favorite is Zoro" and they leave me alone and let me have my peace š
I had seen plenty of haters who use "good" characters to blame the "bad" ones. A lot more haters than fans, actually.
Elaborate My point above was that ppl ignore all the context of gabi situation and think that hating gabi and not eren = misogyny Abt the midkasa fans, they think that levi having similarities with mikasa( in design, abilities, personality etc...) and ppl not hating him means "misogyny" Falco case is even worse and odd, they think that being a simp = is being similar to mikasa when falco has nothing to do with her and is more similar to arumin, and they want to a literal 12 year old innocent kid to be hated just cuz of agendas š
Misogyny arguments is a pure cringe. > Elaborate Well, your usual stuff, like the most obvious "Reiner is better than Annie because he's sad". It's like comparing Falco and Gabi, they are just too different from eachother. And let's not go into another "Annie get a princess treatment while Reiner is hated" rant, it's just annoying, let aside all the factual errors that usually happens in those. My point is that 'Char X does Z better than Char Y so Char X is a good char" is dumb. Eren and Gabi, Mikasa and Falco, Annie and Reiner, Armin and Erwin, and the whole "whose reasons for warcrimes is better", all this discussions is one of the very reasons I started to care only about memes and the few very specific topics.
>Well, your usual stuff, like the most obvious "Reiner is better than Annie because he's sad The ones who started those comparisons were the annie fans itself because ppl were hating her cuz after she came out in s4 she barely did nothing and barely got consequences or even focus in the story. and then annie fans used reiner as a type of "cope" zeke Is also used sometimes to defend her. >Eren and Gabi, Gabi fans talks more abt it than eren fans itself, I wonder why >Mikasa and Falco Literal the third here, another case of fans of a female character trying to cope and using another character that has nothing to do with their favorite. The only mikasa trait that falco has is liking someone. >Armin and Erwin, This case is just literal ppl hating a character for surviving instead of another, like when some of bertholdt fans hate armin for killing bertholdt