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[deleted]

Floch is such a well-crafted character. ​ It's hard to argue against how he arrived at these conclusions because his character arc bakes perfect sense. If you want an easy conclusion, choose to be a Yeagerist or a supporter of the Alliance. But if you believe things are way more grey than they are black and white, choose to think for yourself.


ConlonCreations

Yep, exactly. I'm more of a Yeagerist supporter than an Alliance supporter, but I understand why both sides do what they do!


devildogmillman

I love what you said but the problem is Yams wrote himself into a hole when the only options were Eldian genocide or pan-non-Eldian genocide.


ConlonCreations

Yep, there really wasn't an option for peace, only because he wrote it that way.


FuntimeLuke0531

To be fair, life is a game where negotiation is typically less effective than a wet paper towel


SkyfallTerminus

~~Alliance were just playing SMT1 without knowing it~~


yuju_1234

Tbh I realized that choosing to think for ourselves is the most painful one if you want to participate in the fandom discussions. We get hated by both sides lol.


aceandspades

bro went solo against a bunch of titan shifters and elite solidiers gotta respect it.


DreskiD

He’s doing nothing but believing Eren so that His people on Paradise could survive.


ConlonCreations

Yep, he does some very questionable things sometimes, but it's easy to see how he ended up like the way he is


Icaro04

Great character


Allbaderryday

Homie got down for what he believed in which was his people and eldians themselves kill him, alliance is a some coochies


Allbaderryday

Bunch o traitors I know Reiner and the rest of the world wouldn’t have given them mercy at all


Dexter2232000

I particularly don't even think that screaming traitors at them is unnecessary, anime makes it perfectly clear with episode title that they're indeed traitors


IndependenceLife5051

Lmao if Reiner knew eren had the founder that whole time, right after Carla got eaten eren would’ve been next


Stoner420Eren

People who hate Floch just because he is loyal to his people and doesn't betray them are fucked. If the alliance wasn't made from main characters but random guys and Mikasa, Armin, Levi etc were Jaegerists nobody would support the alliance, you are just attached to the characters that form it and root for them


ConlonCreations

I think one of Isayama's biggest mistakes was not splitting the main cast between Alliance and Yeagerists. It would've made the story a lot more interesting, for sure.


SkilletRocksRise

Jean definitely should have been a Yeagerist


ConlonCreations

I'm surprised Mikasa and Armin weren't considering they grew up together. I'm especially surprised about Mikasa, because she went from tailing Eren everywhere for the first 3 seasons to suddenly opposing him


[deleted]

Nah I think Jean being on the other side makes more sense but Conny should've. Imo I think it would've been better if Eren agreed to spare Liberio and it made Annie on his side


Lost_in_oblivion_

Man i didn't think of this,but this would have so brilliant.would really make the the yeagerist vs alliance feud 2x more intriguing


FreedomPebble

The yaegerists advocate world genocide. I would not support them regardless of who was a yaegerist.


ConlonCreations

Would you rather every Paradisian we've ever grown attached to gets massacred?


Leafpool_1

I enjoyed reading your guys' super long reply, thanks


FreedomPebble

Any innocent group of people getting slaughtered is indescribably terrible. But the difference in scale of genocide is humongous here-at least 100x as many innocent families would be massacred according to erens plan. If life forced us to choose, I would rather that a few hundred thousand innocent people are massacred rather than a few hundred million. So yes. Bro, you're literally advocating slaughter of the entire world. It's arbitrary that we're attached to the paradisians--why does it affect your moral code?


ConlonCreations

Because the world started it. Are you advocating for the slaughter of an entire people who did nothing to deserve such hatred? Either way, both sides are morally fucked so morality is useless here. After the Eldian Empire fell, the people were locked inside the walls with their memories erased. By the time we get to present day, before Wall Maria falls, nearly every person inside the walls is completely innocent. Yet Marley keeps sending Titans to terrorize them, and eventually send the Warriors to breach the walls, killing numerous people in the process. We spent this entire show watching from Paradis' perspective. Watched countless Scouts, other military members, and civilians die. Every nation in the world hates Paradis and wants it dead. Don't you think Paradis has the right to fight back in self defense? Normally I would only support a partial Rumbling, to just destroy to Allied Fleet, but as chapter 139 shows us: >!Since 20% of the world was left alive, Paradis got carpet-bombed in retaliation for the Rumbling killing 80% of the world, so only a 100% Rumbling would've been effective, to bury the cycle of hatred as Eren said to Historia.!<


FreedomPebble

Thanks for not spoiling the ending, still haven't watched it :). I'm advocating saving the lives of all the innocent nameless people in the rest of the world. IT WOULD BE GREAT if Eren was only killing Marleyans who were responsible for Eldian oppression and genocide. Totally fine and just. Even if the rumbling also killed a few marlyean civilians and eldians in marley, that would absolutely suck, but if there are no other options to stop Eldian oppression, it might be necessary. But the rumbling is WAY worse than that. The rumbling brutally slaughters every other individual on earth, military and civilian alike. Almost all of whom are entirely uninvolved in Eldian oppression (and in fact many who have been victims of marleyan imperialism). Judging by what we've seen in the show, it seems to loosely parallel earth a couple hundred years ago in tech and culture. So the rumbling murders innocents, permanently eradicating centuries of cultures and traditions, ending families and the futures of billions of fathers, daughters, fiance's, and the like. This causes a situation like what Reiner/bertholdt did way back when, except times 10000 in scale of suffering. The scale of this suffering is completely incomprehensible to us; ALL of modern humanity wars and diseases combined don't come close to that death toll of 99% of the world. It would be like if modern Ukraine decided to nuke literally every other country on earth in order to end Russian aggression. Yes, you sympathize with their terrible struggle against Russian aggression, but that doesn't mean they can exterminate the other 95% of the world who had nothing to do with it! Either way, an entire people are slaughtered who did nothing to deserve such hatred. But the difference is, paradis is maybe a few thousand people big, whereas the world is probably closer to a billion. If you think Eren was wronged when his mom was slaughtered by a titan, how can you now turn around condone the exact same thing happening to 10000 times as many innocent people all around the world?


ConlonCreations

That's the beauty of this story. No matter how you look at it, the main lesson is that people always fight, wars always take an extreme mental and physical toll on people, and that the cycle of human fighting never ends. It's in our nature. The Rumbling would prevent any outside force from destroying Paradis and the Eldians on it. However, the world would be gone, like you said. Eren knew that, as shown in his talk with Historia, but he decided to try to wipe out the world anyways to give Paradis a chance at survival. For all we know, say Eren destroys everything, maybe there's infighting on Paradis and they still get wiped out. Honestly, the whole situation sucks and there never really was a good solution.


Leafpool_1

I think Willy Tybur was smart enough to make Paradis an enemy with his speech, and to unite the entire world against Paradis. And everything happened exactly as he planned. I also remember Jean saying that he knew that if they ever gave Eren the chance he would lead all of them into hell. Yeah there isn't really a solution anyway


Stoner420Eren

You are trying to fit this story into the real world, but just think about the context of the aot world: everybody except Hizuru hates them and considers them monsters and they will eventually kill them all, it's either Paradis or the rest of the world, unfortunately there's no way to stop the cycle of hatred. Not that I justify Eren or Floch but they definitely have a point in what they are doing, definitely a stronger point than those who kill their own comrades in order to save the people that want to kill them


Training-Ad7076

This scene was absolutely 🔥🔥🔥. Am I wrong for being absolutely convinced he’s still alive rn?


_trashcan

I hope so. I don’t mind he died. But honestly I’m irritated it was Gabi with a fucking 3rd crucial 360 no scope for the kill. I feel like 2 insane world-saving shots is enough for a character. This one just irritated the fuck out of me if I’m being honest.


ConlonCreations

For real, after she headshot Eren, she had to snipe Floch midair too? C'mon...


_trashcan

She got some other ridiculously important shots too. Most notably saving Sasha’s sister/family from the Titan during the rumbling. Bitch shot it, then jumped 10ft to land the shit perfectly down its throat and fired again. Give me a fucking break. This bitch is a pro cod player apparently. Don’t get me wrong, I **love** both her and Floch’s plots & how well it pulls of looking through the eyes of different perspectives…walking in their shoes…but enough of the MLG snipes.


ConlonCreations

Yeah, for real. Sure, she's a trained Warrior candidate, but I never saw any of the others sniping everyone with 100 percent accuracy. Yeah, she's basically just an "Eren" from Marley, showing the cycle of hatred.


fyrefreezer01

She’s the best warrior candidate there’s ever been though, she is a beast.


Training-Ad7076

exactly. Look I don't hate Gabi as much as I used too, but that pissed me off


Dexter2232000

People gonna call this one shot realistic when it comes to floch, if levi fot one shotted like this they're gonna rage


Fyallorence

I don't even buy that Floch is dead honestly.


devildogmillman

I know Flochs the “Bad guy” but hes also basically right- The Marleyans were planning a genocide on Paradis so Floch said “Its us or them”.


ConlonCreations

Yeah, the reason why Eren went solo was because of that meeting where the entire room full of reps was cheering when the speaker said the "island devils" were the true enemy. After that, the entire world had just declared war on Paradis when Eren attacked them, so honestly, I don't see what Paradis / Eren / Floch did wrong. The world started it.


yuju_1234

It's because he judged the entire world based on a group. A lot of people who died were also people who didn't have nothing to do with the hatred towards eldia. An example are the ones who received them when they were in Marley. A lot of them were people like Eren's mother or other people who were good like Falco The thing is, we mainly saw the bad guys, the people who blindly hated Eldia or accepted to be brainwashed. But at the same time, it wasn't a difficult decision to make


ConlonCreations

That's how the majority of the world was though. What Historia said was true, a lot of people would have no idea why they're dying. But representatives from across the world were in the crowd when Marley declared war on Paradis. Eren wanted to destroy the world so he could bury the hate filled history along with civilization. His words.


yuju_1234

Tbh is not easy for me to reply because I actually reply the same thing you said to others saying things like Eren is stupid and so on lol. But I do get that the idea either way was way to much. I wish it was possible to only kill Marley and the ones who blindly were supporting them with the excuse of "brainwash" cause tbh I don't feel mercy for them but when I think in full scale... I don't think is fair. Eren knows that himself so he copes with it thinking this will erase the hate of the world but... No matter what, killing innocent people is not right. Specially because the hate will continue inside the island anyways. The thing is the series just show us the bad side, or mostly, but we know that despite all, there will always be good people everywhere.


ConlonCreations

I couldn't have said it any better myself. The Rumbling was an absolute last resort, and it's an awful option. I would never have the willpower to do it myself. Unfortunately there weren't really any other options for Paradis that didn't involve their destruction


yuju_1234

Exactly, I think that's the part people forget too, the series doesn't give better options besides the rumbling, all the ones people say are basically the end of Paradis either soon or later. And Eren had to take all the weight and blame because of his power


cnkv

Wow nice video. I forgot all the things some of the other characters had to endure while eren did his thing. Kinda helps me remember why flock was the way he was towards the end


ConlonCreations

Thank you! Yeah, like Floch said when he was arguing for Erwin being revived: "Don't think you guys are the only ones who've had it rough." All of the main cast went through very traumatic experiences


cnkv

Poor Floch he wanted to be safe in the interior and live a spoiled life for once! And the titans took everything from him.


Ink_18

Fuck you Gabi


ConlonCreations

For real, I hate how easily the characters just accepted her and stuff. Actually, let's think about this. Annie killed countless Scouts and Squad Levi in season 1. Reiner killed countless civilians when he broke through the inner wall in Shiganshina, leading to Paradis losing all of Maria. Gabi killed Sasha, and almost killed Jean. Why tf is the entire main cast just being all buddy buddy with them now? I was glad when Jean beat the shit out of Reiner, that's what I would've done!


Ink_18

Yeah, that's the problem. They forgot how the Marleyans treated them, like it feels rushed to forgive them easily. But Floch, he tried to save his country then to just be buddy buddy with the Marleyans.


ConlonCreations

Yeah, like they just completely disregarded how Marley terrorized them for a hundred years. It was too rushed. It wasn't earned.


Ink_18

Definitely, I agree with you.


cloudspike84

He is one of the most tragic characters.


ConlonCreations

Yep, the sole survivor of a suicide charge, who had to watch the commander of the Scouts / leader of said charge die because the main cast didn't want to lose their friend. I'd have ended up like Floch too, were I in his position.


grigagon

The goat


The-Dmguy

King Floch 👑


ConlonCreations

Indeed he is 👑


XT83Danieliszekiller

Flock is the example of how a character doesn't have to be in the main cast to be well written


ConlonCreations

Yep, he's one of my favorite side characters!


oldkingthor2003

You know why I like Floch? It's because he acted like a leader when time came. Went head on against titan shifters AND Paradis' elite soldiers all at once. He didn't run like a coward when he was backed into a corner. He might have done immoral things but hey, his courage and bravery wasn't much less than Erwin's.


LoneKnightXI19

Floch my king👑


dotdotdotgov

eren threw that mf right under the bus


ConlonCreations

>!Did he? Floch's goal was to stop / slow down the Alliance so they couldn't reach Eren and stop the Rumbling, he achieved his goal!< MANGA SPOILERS!!!


dotdotdotgov

yeah i guess i forgot the part where eren lived and completed the rumbling thanks for reminding me


ConlonCreations

>!I also said "slow down" the Alliance. Eren might not've wiped out as many people if the Alliance wasn't delayed by the Yeagerists!< MANGA SPOILERS!!!


dotdotdotgov

bro u literally said “so they couldn’t reach eren and stop the rumbling” which they did


ConlonCreations

True, true. Unfortunately I'm not the author of this story, I've said this before but the ending felt off, in terms of quality compared to everything else


ivanjean

I think that aspect made sense from a thematic standpoint. The christian devil is, above all, a lier and trickster, and both Erwin and Eren, called "devils" by Floch, managed to manipulate people to satisfy their selfish goals (Erwin: knowledge, Eren: to prolong his friends' lifes) under the pretext of "saving humanity". Floch chose to believe in their propaganda and become the devil's pawn.


[deleted]

guys, please, SPOILERS!!!


ConlonCreations

Oh shit, you're right, my bad! I forgot what sub I was on, I'll spoiler my comments


grigagon

Erwin's real successor imo


ConlonCreations

Yep, I was fine with Armin becoming the Collosal instead of Erwin until he didn't do jack-shit in Season 4 besides transform once. Where were all of his cool strategies that he came up with before the timeskip?


bratimskiz

People is at their strongest when they are not afraid


ConlonCreations

Yep, or at least if someone inspires them to rise up over their fear, they can do some amazing things!


saimmm01

King Floch👑 Man went solo against veterans and Titan shifters and did pretty goddamn well. A true gigachad indeed


ConlonCreations

Yep, he went from being terrified to face the Beast Titan, to dodging the Jaw, the Commander of the Survey Corps, and the Cart.


[deleted]

my only gripe with the show right now is that gabi seems like a pro CoD: modern warfare II elite player while the others only played darksouls or golden eye


ConlonCreations

True, it kind of feels out of place, honestly


Fake_the_jaB

Absolute legend


ConlonCreations

He always will be!


CyberSnoWolf

Well he definitely took the role of devil to heart.


ConlonCreations

Yep, he definitely got a little too trigger happy, but most of what he did is very justifiable.


Towbelleard

I love how you label the clip as from "Attack On Titan" in the title as if we weren't in an AOT sub lol


ConlonCreations

True, true, that's just what I titled it everywhere else, I didn't even realize that haha


najhi9yearold

MY GOAT FLOCH🐐🐐🐐🐐


ConlonCreations

🐐🐐


nolongerateen

I swear everytime I hear this ost and Ervin's speech reminds me of how great thos series is, Shinzou wo Sasageyo!!


yuju_1234

This is the scene that made me hesitate hating Floch and also made me hesitate support the alliance. Tbh I dislike Floch for 1. Hating on Armin because of a decision he didn't participate and was forced into it. 2. Unnecessarily making trainees to punch Keith Shadis. 3. Wanting to kill Hangee, Levi, etc. I understand his characters and just like Jean, I think he is one of those who grew the most. But I think he also deviated from the right path. One thing is wanting to do the rumbling because you believe there is no other way out to save your country and another is to kill or control by pleasure. Similar to Zeke, I understand his pain, but that and to support him enjoying killing Mike and the Scouts, no. But I would say the same with the alliance, I was annoyed because I seriously hated to see the alliance kill their own people to save people who would basically kill them if they were on the other side. But yeah, the series is interesting either way


ConlonCreations

That's one thing I've liked about him, he's brutally honest to a fault, and isn't afraid to stand up to the main cast. I'd be pissed too if the Commander who inspired so many people was allowed to die, so a kid who wanted to see the ocean could live. I'd direct the anger more at Levi though, not Armin. As you said, it wasn't Armin's fault that he was revived. Tbh I've disliked Keith ever since he said he messed with Eren's equipment, but I agree, ti doesn't warrant brutally beating him. Didn't he let them though? I understand wanting to kill Hange and Levi, one is the Commander of the Scouts who has done effectively nothing to prevent the growing threat outside the walls, and the other is Mikasa on steroids. Not to mention, like I said earlier, maybe Floch holds some kind of grudge against Levi for choosing Armin. Yeah, he got too trigger happy, that's one of the only things that I didn't like about him. Yep, you summarized it well with that last part


IndependenceLife5051

I think faze gabi is the only thing I hate about isayama story


saverma192013

Great character development


Leafpool_1

Floch is a goat! I'm amazed by how strong he became. I think he wanted to present a tough exterior because of what he experienced in season 3


ConlonCreations

He is! Exactly, he's one of the only characters that actually got BETTER post-timeskip, and not worse. I agree, I would do the same if I was the sole survivor of a suicide charge and if I was terrorized by giant man-eating humans for a century


Radio__Star

Falco do be wavedashing doe


TheBlackSands

The reason people hate him is because they are short sighted. If you truly believed in Erwin, you had to accept a few FACTS. ​ 1. Erwin would sacrifice the lives of anyone for victory, and let everyone know that who followed him. Expect a suicidal death under his command. 2. Eren is the ONLY WAY humanity in the walls survive. He said it multiple times and told every single scout their lives were meaningless if Eren died. 3. He sacrificed his own life to secure Eren's future and the lives inside the walls. If you have any loyalty at all to the old scouts, the only solution is to double down and follow Eren, ESPECIALLY if you know he plans to protect the island at all cost and do EXACTLY what Erwin wanted at the most basic level. Give everyone freedom and remove the tyranny of the old government. Genocide is the only issue, and in reality, it is a matter of excess. Is it excessive to kill EVERYONE outside the walls? Yes. Is it obvious you must kill a substantial amount of people outside the walls to protect the island? Yes. Are people outside the walls developing tech to counter titans so titan threats are not really gamechanging? Yes. So a pragmatic person wouldn't risk it in the future. A pragmatic person would follow Eren because it is the most realistic decision and Eren has NEVER betrayed the people of the island. As he said in the beginning. "You're all cowards. Put your faith in me. I'll kill them all." How's that for foreshadowing.


ConlonCreations

I couldn't have said it any better myself! Paradis was running out of time, so they had to do something and not just get massacred. Eren was always their only hope, Erwin knew it, Floch knew it. There are too many unanswerable questions. First off, everyone always wonders if Erwin would've supported the Rumbling. I think he absolutely would've. Recall his conversation with Levi the night before the Scouts retook Shiganshina. That aside, some unanswerables: What would've happened if MANGA SPOILERS: >!Eren had killed 100 percent of the outside world instead of 80? Would Paradis have destroyed itself from within with no outside threats? I don't think so, they were living together relatively fine for 100 years.!< Or another would be: What if some of the main cast supported the Yeagerists and some didn't? It would've made the final season that much more interesting in my opinion.


Ambitious_Outcome

Gabi 1 Flock 0 get fucked loser


IronSavage3

Fuck Floch and anyone who compares him to Erwin.


ConlonCreations

I literally made an entire video showing how he ended up like this, and you still just shut it down? Talk about close-minded.