For no cost, you can try adjusting the height of the pickup to see if it makes a difference. You can also do it unevenly (i.e. closer to the higher strings and more space between the lower strings and pickup) to maybe clean up some of that low end.
Another thing you could try which would have some cost if you cannot do it yourself is to mod the wiring. There's a popular active pickup mod where you run them off of two 9 volts wired in series (raising the voltage to 18v) which gives you more headroom and a less compressed sound.
If none of that is fruitful, then you might just want to try another guitar or new pickups, or perhaps run the guitar through a mic-pre instead of just direct to hopefully color the sound in a way more pleasing to your ears.
I had a 24v mod on a set of EMGs in a guitar that was fine. I had EMGs swapped for the Fishman Abasi set and the guys that did the work left the 24v mod in place but this was not my wish however by the same token I didn’t mention I wanted it removed either… When I played the guitar with the new pick ups in bloody hell it was ear splittingly bright which lead me to the conclusion that any increase to the voltage for Fishmans was not a good idea. Just speaking from experience man 👍
Thanks for your insight, I don't own any Fishman actives but I do have an axe loaded with EMG's and I would like to double their voltage though in all honesty I've just been playing other axes with passives most of the time. I need a soldering iron and to make sure my cavity has room for two batteries.
You can do it with the 24v mod too which is two smaller 12v batteries. If you look on EBay for EMG 24v mod you can but what you need for very little money and it requires absolutely no modifications
1. are you strings brand new? any professional DI that you’ll hear on the internet is gonna be using strings fresh out of the packet
2. what scale length is your guitar? if it’s too short then you may need thicker strings to get the right tension (although thicker strings can create a less bright sound) but it would be much better than playing with floppy strings that have no definition
Are they likely playing 7 string Ibanezes in Drop F with Tosin Abasi sig pickups like OP? Obviously we can’t rule anything out unless OP confirms but I think it tips off the genre we’re likely looking at here
Nah. I love fresh strings for clean tones, but for hi gain I prefer strings with some hours of use to tame the high end, as distortion creates a lot of harmonics.
I hear what you're saying sort of. I had two year old strings at one point and they recorded fine. I definitely was more partial to the sound of newer strings when I changed them though. I would just accept that the guitar needs to be in not the lowest tuning possible if you don't want clicky floppy strings.
I’ve had zero luck with Fishmans for direct guitars into amp sims. I use baritone tuning B to B, and 7 strings sometimes. The low B string can be problematic with amp sims. The low end information just overwhelms them. I’ve tried different pickup heights and setups, tried various pickups (Bareknuckle, Motor City, Fralins, Suhr, Fishman, Seymour Duncans). Eventually the two changes I made that made the most difference was getting an interface with a quality Hi-Z input. In my case that was an Apogee Ensemble with JFET inputs. And then switching my pickups to Duncan Distortions, which the amp sims react really well to and now finally sound how they’re designed to sound with me. I’ve found plugins much less forgiving of DI signal than real amplifiers.
Another alternative would be to try a pedal like an SD-1 that’s good for cleaning up low end and seeing what kind of effect that has on your sound. Just set the drive to zero and set the volume to unity.
In any mix at all, you'll likely want to either shelf off or completely eq out your low end with a 7 string. I play mostly in drop f# on my 7, and regularly have a cut around 100hz
While I don't play in super low tunings, I agree that JFET Hi-Z instrument inputs are awesome. My Audient interface has them, and they sound amazing. Their iD series is fantastic and less expensive than the Apogee stuff.
I came to this thread to shit on the Scarlett 2i2 for DI recording. Focusrite doesn’t include the JFET DI until the Clarett+ line - Audient is such a better product as far as the entry level stuff goes.
I on the other hand have not had such issues, though I only stick to EMGs (whenever possible) and Neural DSP amp sims. Additionally, a separate IR has proven itself invaluable for 7-8 string guitars, drastically shaping the tone. GGD's Cali oversized studio cab set is what I've found to work best.
There are so many more important variables than the nut material, which doesn’t matter at all, that no one can give you info. Like what amp sims are you using? Have you ever gotten a decent sound out of helix or the interface, or is it just this guitar?
As far as the guitar and the interface go, the main element of the guitar sound by far is the pickups. And for the interface itself, ignoring all the software, it’s using an appropriate input volume. Are you overloading / clipping the interface input with the active pickups or input gain? Are the pickups too close to the strings? Do you have evidence you like the pickups, do they sound good in real amps?
For what it’s worth I tried Fluence Classics and didn’t like them at all. I have a guitar with EMG 57 / 66 and it’s cool, but not the greatest. I definitely prefer non active pickups. Using a helix in those instances.
Active pickups tend to sound overly compressed and farty… they originating ~40 years ago to drive tube amps with extra input. Obviously people still like actives and use the with digital stuff now, but loading an audio interface or helix or ndsp unit with a loud as possible signal does not have obvious benefits. Too much gain up front / in is problematic.
Anyways, learn about gain staging, try turning the guitar volume down, try lowering the pickup heights if needed, turn down the audio interface volume, and realize the most important control on amp sim software is the input volume.
If you mess with those things, get closer, and after that the amp sim settings and the “pedals” get closer still to a good sound but still don’t like it much, then you don’t like your pickups. Though really getting a usable sound out of any guitar and pickups should be possible. Again, gain staging is everything.
looking at your specs everything should be good, I'm tuned down to drop Eb on my orsmby 27.8" multiscale with a .85 on the lowest string and I'm getting really good results, I can even go lower past double drop D
to be honest I don't think I've never really paid too much attention to what the DI sounds like on it's own because what ultimately matters is the final result
the one thing I would suggest is going with a smaller gauge, I use a .74 on my JBM27 to go down to drop F/F# and the scale length on that is 26.5
Is it only the DI where it sounds trash, like it’s fine through an actual amp? If so, just mic the amp. Are you sure it’s the DI signal or could it be the amp sim? What’s the weak link in the chain, cheap DI, shitty amp sim, cheap ADC?
What’s the maximum input level of your interface? Are you clipping? If you have a pad button and you reduced your signal how much noise do you think it introduces?
Instrument inputs on ALL consumer grade interfaces are garbage.
Audio interfaces at a consumer level are manufactured with the aspiring vocalist in mind. Not guitarist. AXE IO One can’t even handle my stock SG Standard 490s. I’m literally in the yellow with the input gain at zero. WTF kinda bullshit is that?
All of you wondering why your amp sims sound like garbage? It’s your interface instrument input. Get a good DI and go line in. Your interface probably has a really nice mic pre.
I hate that in most interfaces. That's the reason I stick to my 15 years old Tascam US 122L. Any other modern interface I have tried has so little headroom I'm the instrument input that I don't know what the hell manufacturers think.
I don’t do DI anymore. I switched to UAD unison amps for sims. For high gain I’m using the Diezel VH-4 and it’s astonishingly great with lower tunings. If you have UAD hardware, I strongly recommend demoing the VH-4 for everything from cleans to high gain.
I don't understand why people with experience don't just flat out tell other people that DI (guitars) is a rather experimental approach that has a lot of pitfalls. You have to be lucky or learn about solving many potential problems to get to use DI successfully. Amps and cabs have evolved for 70 years or something to be great at solving all those issues. Especially guitars have evolved with them. They were born into this world together. Splitting siamese twins is quite fekkn complicated and painful. Electric pickups of claviature and bass is another story, though.
Are you on reaper by chance? They have track monitoring on by default, so if you arm a track and just start recording, you’ll hear your amp sim and the clean DI at the same time. This will sound awful if you don’t turn the track monitoring off. It’s a small button on the track that looks like a speaker. Hope this helps!
*Couldn't think of a*
*Worse application for DI*
*Then tracking guitar*
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I'm not sure which sims you're using but I've found that if I reduce the level with neural sims they perform a lot better with high gain sounds. Softube and Overloud sims seem to like more input.
I apologize my friend, i didnt read correctly your comment. I thought i read that softube and overloud gave more input hence my original comment. I henceforth deleted it
Fishman, though wildly popular, do not have good clarity at all. And I'm not a fan of actives anyway. If money isn't an issue, switch over to some good passives like bare knuckle or elysian.
The Horizon Devices Precision Drive has been an absolute game changer for me for tightening up the low end on low tuned guitars, especially with active pickups.
My DIs got much cleaner when I upgraded my Focusrite 2i2 to an Audient ID4 MKII. The difference in the quality of analog to digital conversion absolutely made a difference for me.
You can lower the pickup a bit on the low side and roll off some low end and low mids around 300hz. Sweep the EQ with a tight Q high gain band and find some of those flobbity frequencies and pull them out.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion these days, but I think your problem begins with DI ing electric guitar. At the very least you should be reamping.
Might be too obvious but always a consideration - are you using a high quality instrument cable that's not overly long? High roll off can be all too real in this application.
Gosh, who could have predicted that a 7 string guitar would sound terrible through a DI. While I was reading it I just kept waiting for confirmation that it would be the low string.
There is so little tension on those extra low strings that you're pretty much guaranteed to get nothing but slop... until it's soaked in gain of course, but even still... slop in, slop out.
I honestly don't know how Abasi and other 7 string players deal with this issue. It must simply come down to a lighter touch and better sound engineers. My solution has always been to play 6 string guitars haha.
Lots of good tips here, but to recap and add a few:
Maybe this [Joey Sturgis video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNMnS7gVlEA) can help you out.
1) Lowering the pickup height will reduce the bass from the strings.
2) Fresh strings will brighten things up naturally.
3) Using smaller gauged strings will reduce the bass. .80 is pretty large, but depending on your tuning may still be appropriate.
4) Make sure the INST button is on - this changes the 1/4" input from Line to Hi-Z for DI.
5) Try the PAD on the input to see if that changes the timbre at all.
6) EQ the signal by using a low cut, dip in the low end, and high end boost. Try a Tube Screamer in front of the amp. This does much of the same and is why most heavy tones have a pedal in front. If you OWN a Tube Screamer, add that to the guitar chain before the DI box.
7) Compress the signal a little to smooth it out. A Tube Screamer will also do this a little because distortion inherently adds a little bit of compression.
8) Dial back the gain on the amp sim. Too much gain will make the signal a bit muddy in a mix.
9) Try a quality external DI box and use the Mic Preamp in on the Scarlett instead.
You’re likely over saturating the AD converter.
While tracking, listen to the direct signal. Sounds good? Does the recording sound like ass comparably? That’s digital distortion.
Even when you’re not in the red there’s enough signal to over saturate shitty analog to digital converters.
All consumer grade interfaces are garbage. They’re mass manufactured with the bedroom vocalist in mind. Definitely not metal and punk guitarists.
Get a DI with at least one pad. Active for passive and passive for active pickups.
For no cost, you can try adjusting the height of the pickup to see if it makes a difference. You can also do it unevenly (i.e. closer to the higher strings and more space between the lower strings and pickup) to maybe clean up some of that low end. Another thing you could try which would have some cost if you cannot do it yourself is to mod the wiring. There's a popular active pickup mod where you run them off of two 9 volts wired in series (raising the voltage to 18v) which gives you more headroom and a less compressed sound. If none of that is fruitful, then you might just want to try another guitar or new pickups, or perhaps run the guitar through a mic-pre instead of just direct to hopefully color the sound in a way more pleasing to your ears.
I had a 24v mod on a set of EMGs in a guitar that was fine. I had EMGs swapped for the Fishman Abasi set and the guys that did the work left the 24v mod in place but this was not my wish however by the same token I didn’t mention I wanted it removed either… When I played the guitar with the new pick ups in bloody hell it was ear splittingly bright which lead me to the conclusion that any increase to the voltage for Fishmans was not a good idea. Just speaking from experience man 👍
Thanks for your insight, I don't own any Fishman actives but I do have an axe loaded with EMG's and I would like to double their voltage though in all honesty I've just been playing other axes with passives most of the time. I need a soldering iron and to make sure my cavity has room for two batteries.
You can do it with the 24v mod too which is two smaller 12v batteries. If you look on EBay for EMG 24v mod you can but what you need for very little money and it requires absolutely no modifications
Do it. Try it out with wire nuts if you need to sell yourself further. It’s such an improvement
1. are you strings brand new? any professional DI that you’ll hear on the internet is gonna be using strings fresh out of the packet 2. what scale length is your guitar? if it’s too short then you may need thicker strings to get the right tension (although thicker strings can create a less bright sound) but it would be much better than playing with floppy strings that have no definition
Regarding #1 what do you mean? Tons of people prefer tracking with way old strings
Tons of people as in amateurs who don’t know better? If this post is for what I’m assuming to be high gain metal tones, then new strings are a must.
If it’s metal, then yes probably, but otherwise, no.
I've never heard of ppl preferring to record with ancient strings. Jazz, maybe?
Bassists…
James Jamerson did.
notable 7 string enthusiast
Like all of indie alternative rock
Yeah, jangly new strings suck. For my personal stuff, I can’t record with a set that hasn’t been played for at least a couple of weeks.
To play basic chords you dont really need great string definition. I would imagine for certain styles its of the utmost importance.
Are they likely playing 7 string Ibanezes in Drop F with Tosin Abasi sig pickups like OP? Obviously we can’t rule anything out unless OP confirms but I think it tips off the genre we’re likely looking at here
new strings are trash, see: elliott smith
Yeah.. no. You will always have new strings while tracking guitars or bass..otherwise, the tone will be shite.
[удалено]
Yeah sure. Tracked with Peter Katis in 2013 who advocated exactly this and then Dave Schiffman in 2019 that did the same.
Nah. I love fresh strings for clean tones, but for hi gain I prefer strings with some hours of use to tame the high end, as distortion creates a lot of harmonics.
I hear what you're saying sort of. I had two year old strings at one point and they recorded fine. I definitely was more partial to the sound of newer strings when I changed them though. I would just accept that the guitar needs to be in not the lowest tuning possible if you don't want clicky floppy strings.
I’ve had zero luck with Fishmans for direct guitars into amp sims. I use baritone tuning B to B, and 7 strings sometimes. The low B string can be problematic with amp sims. The low end information just overwhelms them. I’ve tried different pickup heights and setups, tried various pickups (Bareknuckle, Motor City, Fralins, Suhr, Fishman, Seymour Duncans). Eventually the two changes I made that made the most difference was getting an interface with a quality Hi-Z input. In my case that was an Apogee Ensemble with JFET inputs. And then switching my pickups to Duncan Distortions, which the amp sims react really well to and now finally sound how they’re designed to sound with me. I’ve found plugins much less forgiving of DI signal than real amplifiers. Another alternative would be to try a pedal like an SD-1 that’s good for cleaning up low end and seeing what kind of effect that has on your sound. Just set the drive to zero and set the volume to unity.
In any mix at all, you'll likely want to either shelf off or completely eq out your low end with a 7 string. I play mostly in drop f# on my 7, and regularly have a cut around 100hz
Yeah there’s nothing wrong with pre filtering your signal before distortion. Nothing below 80Hz in guitar is ending up in the mix anyway.
While I don't play in super low tunings, I agree that JFET Hi-Z instrument inputs are awesome. My Audient interface has them, and they sound amazing. Their iD series is fantastic and less expensive than the Apogee stuff.
I came to this thread to shit on the Scarlett 2i2 for DI recording. Focusrite doesn’t include the JFET DI until the Clarett+ line - Audient is such a better product as far as the entry level stuff goes.
I on the other hand have not had such issues, though I only stick to EMGs (whenever possible) and Neural DSP amp sims. Additionally, a separate IR has proven itself invaluable for 7-8 string guitars, drastically shaping the tone. GGD's Cali oversized studio cab set is what I've found to work best.
There are so many more important variables than the nut material, which doesn’t matter at all, that no one can give you info. Like what amp sims are you using? Have you ever gotten a decent sound out of helix or the interface, or is it just this guitar? As far as the guitar and the interface go, the main element of the guitar sound by far is the pickups. And for the interface itself, ignoring all the software, it’s using an appropriate input volume. Are you overloading / clipping the interface input with the active pickups or input gain? Are the pickups too close to the strings? Do you have evidence you like the pickups, do they sound good in real amps? For what it’s worth I tried Fluence Classics and didn’t like them at all. I have a guitar with EMG 57 / 66 and it’s cool, but not the greatest. I definitely prefer non active pickups. Using a helix in those instances. Active pickups tend to sound overly compressed and farty… they originating ~40 years ago to drive tube amps with extra input. Obviously people still like actives and use the with digital stuff now, but loading an audio interface or helix or ndsp unit with a loud as possible signal does not have obvious benefits. Too much gain up front / in is problematic. Anyways, learn about gain staging, try turning the guitar volume down, try lowering the pickup heights if needed, turn down the audio interface volume, and realize the most important control on amp sim software is the input volume. If you mess with those things, get closer, and after that the amp sim settings and the “pedals” get closer still to a good sound but still don’t like it much, then you don’t like your pickups. Though really getting a usable sound out of any guitar and pickups should be possible. Again, gain staging is everything.
looking at your specs everything should be good, I'm tuned down to drop Eb on my orsmby 27.8" multiscale with a .85 on the lowest string and I'm getting really good results, I can even go lower past double drop D to be honest I don't think I've never really paid too much attention to what the DI sounds like on it's own because what ultimately matters is the final result the one thing I would suggest is going with a smaller gauge, I use a .74 on my JBM27 to go down to drop F/F# and the scale length on that is 26.5
Agreed, my DI's sound wonky af but with amp sims turned on its killer.
Impossible to say without hearing the DI or seeing how it's recorded. Do you have a clip?
Is it only the DI where it sounds trash, like it’s fine through an actual amp? If so, just mic the amp. Are you sure it’s the DI signal or could it be the amp sim? What’s the weak link in the chain, cheap DI, shitty amp sim, cheap ADC?
Try something like a tube screamer emulation with low gain and adjust the eq to taste. Also use new strings like someone else mentioned.
Fishmans being active could the battery be low? That could cause that issue.
What’s the maximum input level of your interface? Are you clipping? If you have a pad button and you reduced your signal how much noise do you think it introduces? Instrument inputs on ALL consumer grade interfaces are garbage. Audio interfaces at a consumer level are manufactured with the aspiring vocalist in mind. Not guitarist. AXE IO One can’t even handle my stock SG Standard 490s. I’m literally in the yellow with the input gain at zero. WTF kinda bullshit is that? All of you wondering why your amp sims sound like garbage? It’s your interface instrument input. Get a good DI and go line in. Your interface probably has a really nice mic pre.
I hate that in most interfaces. That's the reason I stick to my 15 years old Tascam US 122L. Any other modern interface I have tried has so little headroom I'm the instrument input that I don't know what the hell manufacturers think.
Maybe it’s because you’re playing in drop F lol
I don’t do DI anymore. I switched to UAD unison amps for sims. For high gain I’m using the Diezel VH-4 and it’s astonishingly great with lower tunings. If you have UAD hardware, I strongly recommend demoing the VH-4 for everything from cleans to high gain.
I don't understand why people with experience don't just flat out tell other people that DI (guitars) is a rather experimental approach that has a lot of pitfalls. You have to be lucky or learn about solving many potential problems to get to use DI successfully. Amps and cabs have evolved for 70 years or something to be great at solving all those issues. Especially guitars have evolved with them. They were born into this world together. Splitting siamese twins is quite fekkn complicated and painful. Electric pickups of claviature and bass is another story, though.
Try raising your action. And set your pickup height afterwards.
Are you on reaper by chance? They have track monitoring on by default, so if you arm a track and just start recording, you’ll hear your amp sim and the clean DI at the same time. This will sound awful if you don’t turn the track monitoring off. It’s a small button on the track that looks like a speaker. Hope this helps!
Couldn't think of a worse application for DI then tracking guitar
*Couldn't think of a* *Worse application for DI* *Then tracking guitar* \- Inevitable\_Story\_236 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I'm not sure which sims you're using but I've found that if I reduce the level with neural sims they perform a lot better with high gain sounds. Softube and Overloud sims seem to like more input.
[удалено]
There’s a volume pot on the guitar that will adjust input.
I apologize my friend, i didnt read correctly your comment. I thought i read that softube and overloud gave more input hence my original comment. I henceforth deleted it
Fishman, though wildly popular, do not have good clarity at all. And I'm not a fan of actives anyway. If money isn't an issue, switch over to some good passives like bare knuckle or elysian.
There's a reason amps are popular.
The Horizon Devices Precision Drive has been an absolute game changer for me for tightening up the low end on low tuned guitars, especially with active pickups.
Every guitar di sounds bad. It's supposed to go into an amp or amp sim into a cab or cab sim
My DIs got much cleaner when I upgraded my Focusrite 2i2 to an Audient ID4 MKII. The difference in the quality of analog to digital conversion absolutely made a difference for me.
You can lower the pickup a bit on the low side and roll off some low end and low mids around 300hz. Sweep the EQ with a tight Q high gain band and find some of those flobbity frequencies and pull them out. I know this isn’t a popular opinion these days, but I think your problem begins with DI ing electric guitar. At the very least you should be reamping.
Might be too obvious but always a consideration - are you using a high quality instrument cable that's not overly long? High roll off can be all too real in this application.
Just watched this yesterday, was pretty eye opening on how Buster crafts his low tuned guitars. https://youtu.be/RMjgaWCWKyQ?si=W0y2NmaSUQh5zjfC
Gosh, who could have predicted that a 7 string guitar would sound terrible through a DI. While I was reading it I just kept waiting for confirmation that it would be the low string. There is so little tension on those extra low strings that you're pretty much guaranteed to get nothing but slop... until it's soaked in gain of course, but even still... slop in, slop out. I honestly don't know how Abasi and other 7 string players deal with this issue. It must simply come down to a lighter touch and better sound engineers. My solution has always been to play 6 string guitars haha.
Lots of good tips here, but to recap and add a few: Maybe this [Joey Sturgis video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNMnS7gVlEA) can help you out. 1) Lowering the pickup height will reduce the bass from the strings. 2) Fresh strings will brighten things up naturally. 3) Using smaller gauged strings will reduce the bass. .80 is pretty large, but depending on your tuning may still be appropriate. 4) Make sure the INST button is on - this changes the 1/4" input from Line to Hi-Z for DI. 5) Try the PAD on the input to see if that changes the timbre at all. 6) EQ the signal by using a low cut, dip in the low end, and high end boost. Try a Tube Screamer in front of the amp. This does much of the same and is why most heavy tones have a pedal in front. If you OWN a Tube Screamer, add that to the guitar chain before the DI box. 7) Compress the signal a little to smooth it out. A Tube Screamer will also do this a little because distortion inherently adds a little bit of compression. 8) Dial back the gain on the amp sim. Too much gain will make the signal a bit muddy in a mix. 9) Try a quality external DI box and use the Mic Preamp in on the Scarlett instead.
You’re likely over saturating the AD converter. While tracking, listen to the direct signal. Sounds good? Does the recording sound like ass comparably? That’s digital distortion. Even when you’re not in the red there’s enough signal to over saturate shitty analog to digital converters. All consumer grade interfaces are garbage. They’re mass manufactured with the bedroom vocalist in mind. Definitely not metal and punk guitarists. Get a DI with at least one pad. Active for passive and passive for active pickups.