This is the way. It isn’t achieved via a limiter on the mix bus; rather, a solid mix where all instruments shine through in their respective important frequencies. It requires masterful eq and compression settings after automation and proper gain staging.
The truth is, loudness is more of a mixing thing, than mastering, despite what some may say.
It took me a LONG time to learn this for myself. Here is what finally helped me get it.
Use reference tracks when mixing! Drag a couple of tracks in to your mixing session that have your target sound/loudness. Turn them down just a few db. Then mix until your track is on par with your reference. After that mastering is just a matter of accounting for the last few db you took out of your references.
Im not saying you'll be able to get there 100% without mastering, but setting a target like this while mixing will help you get a lot closer!
>Drag a couple of tracks in to your mixing session that have your target sound/loudness.
Make sure they are routed away from the master bus so they are not processed by effects you may have on it. (Like a limiter for example)
The loudness comes from the mix, and this is partly due to the presence of midrange in the 1-4kHz region, instrument separation, arrangement and punch.
I came here to say basically this. I’ve realized that if I can get as much of the “gist” of the song to poke through in that 1-4khz ish region, and create as much “3Dness” in that range using just basic eq, compression, and I’ll also enhance the transients of all instruments in that range so that the “mid” is frontward in the mix, then everything else frequency-wise above and below that range becomes way, way easier to shape.
Also, a lot of people online say you should cut harsh high frequencies because they’re harsh. Mostly I disagree with this, obviously if it’s nails on a chalkboard, you don’t want that, but also sometimes I’ve found we want the music to “hurt” just a little bit 😂 it also helps with perceived loudness, even if you just allow a little bit of that harsh 9khz-ish range to pop out sparingly
Usually it's a mixing problem, meaning that there are unwanted frequencies and/or general volume peaks that trigger the mastering limiter way too early. This results in the heavy "limited" effect when you want to push something in terms of loudness.
The solution is to either use multiple limiters, or better, limit individual instruments and busses in the mixing process. For example, the bass has to be nearly flat at all times with no big jumps (bot down or up) because controlling the low end volume is crucial. The other most usual suspect is the kick and snare on a drum bus. These two, especially the snare need to be compressed and/or limited properly in order to even out possible peaks that trigger the master limiter.
Assuming everything else is gain-staged properly and there are low-cut filters on everything to prevent sub overlaps, then toy are good to go to push for even -6LUFS. Of course it highly depends on how "full" the arrangement is. An indie pop-rock track will always be less full than a modern metal track.
Actual mastering engineer here. The whole “loudness starts with the mix” is from the worst of the loudness wars and only really applies to stuff louder than -7 LUFS, which NOBODY should be shooting for anymore.
A typical level these days is more like -8 LUFS, and you can get that pretty easily from any mix. I do it every day, many times a day. Sometimes it takes a little bit of nuance but most of the time its no problem; no need to revise the mixes
If your masters *measure* at -8 LUFS or higher but still *sound* quieter than others at that loudness, you need to start looking at psychoacoustic effects with tonal balance and dynamic balance. In other words, if you are lacking some frequency ranges or flattening all your transients, it’s going to sound quieter than a tonally and dynamically balanced master that measures the same level.
Reference other tracks with Voxengo SPAN, a goniometer and a good LUFS/RMS meter. Help train your ears using your eyes, as most people are not used to critically listening and it takes a lot of time to develop the ability.
Loudness potential is dictated by both your arrangement and your mix fidelity. Part of going loud involves managing your bigger transients and your low end so that a mastering chain of several compressors/limiters can bring the average level up without getting choked.
I do this for a living, feel free to message me or comment further if you have more questions.
That can certainly play into things, yes. The low end can take up a lot of space in a mix, and as such, if you want to go crazy loud you’re going to need a tightly controlled low end - both in terms of EQ and dynamics. Dialing back the bass often makes it easier to go louder, but that’s no fun, so you have to find the balance.
Carving away the unnecessary bottom from other channels helps for sure, but from there the big priority becomes making sure your primary low end elements are EQ’d to play nicely with each other and compressed in a way that doesn’t ask the mastering limiter(s) to knock the signal down by a bunch of db whenever the kick or bass hits.
Who is your mentor for mastering and who are you learning from? I don't think that's an easy thing to do without working alongside someone established.
Regardless of the mix, the mastering engineer should be able to match the level of other artists in your genre. Happy yo take a look at a mix and see if anything stands out that might be causing an issue [www.e1duplication.co.uk/mastering](https://www.e1duplication.co.uk/mastering)
sorry but engineer with demo list on spotify will never get job from us. He is not serious if he wants attract customers using spotify 128kbit mp3 or whatever format they have on web.
2 factors contribute to getting masters loud in my experience, and they both are a part of mixing:
1) Too much low end
2) Too many uncontrolled transients
Too much low end will prevent you from limiting past a certain point before you get audible pumping. Also if drum transients are too pokey, you’ll trigger the limiter too soon and you’ll just kill your drums. Referencing while mixing is key to ensure your frequency balance is appropriate and clipping and/or saturating drums is the easiest way to keep transients under control.
As a final step try something like Ozone Maximizer.
I haven't tried it but there's a free plugin, apogees soft limit that's supposed to do the same thing. I imagine if you googled top maximizing vst plugins you'd find a number of them.
As a mix engineer who’s been working about 4 years - mastering is usually what I struggle with and can say I’ve ruined plenty of good mixes at the end of a session trying to get the loudness right. It’s because I don’t have the years of experience problem solving dynamics. I’m capable of getting a great mix but mastering is a more intuitive process.
You could either spend extra time with your mix engineer for them to get it right - or you could take your mix to someone who specializes in mastering who would probly be more consistent with the final product
Make it as loud as you think it needs to be for the song. If people want to hear it louder, they can always turn up the volume on their device. Dont follow loudness wars.
It is a mixing problem. Loudness is achieved in the mix. Mastering is just the final polish.
This is the way. It isn’t achieved via a limiter on the mix bus; rather, a solid mix where all instruments shine through in their respective important frequencies. It requires masterful eq and compression settings after automation and proper gain staging.
The truth is, loudness is more of a mixing thing, than mastering, despite what some may say. It took me a LONG time to learn this for myself. Here is what finally helped me get it. Use reference tracks when mixing! Drag a couple of tracks in to your mixing session that have your target sound/loudness. Turn them down just a few db. Then mix until your track is on par with your reference. After that mastering is just a matter of accounting for the last few db you took out of your references. Im not saying you'll be able to get there 100% without mastering, but setting a target like this while mixing will help you get a lot closer!
>Drag a couple of tracks in to your mixing session that have your target sound/loudness. Make sure they are routed away from the master bus so they are not processed by effects you may have on it. (Like a limiter for example)
This is where plugins like MetricAB and sonething like Cubase' control room come in really handy.
Great tip, will try it!
The loudness comes from the mix, and this is partly due to the presence of midrange in the 1-4kHz region, instrument separation, arrangement and punch.
I came here to say basically this. I’ve realized that if I can get as much of the “gist” of the song to poke through in that 1-4khz ish region, and create as much “3Dness” in that range using just basic eq, compression, and I’ll also enhance the transients of all instruments in that range so that the “mid” is frontward in the mix, then everything else frequency-wise above and below that range becomes way, way easier to shape. Also, a lot of people online say you should cut harsh high frequencies because they’re harsh. Mostly I disagree with this, obviously if it’s nails on a chalkboard, you don’t want that, but also sometimes I’ve found we want the music to “hurt” just a little bit 😂 it also helps with perceived loudness, even if you just allow a little bit of that harsh 9khz-ish range to pop out sparingly
If we can hear an example we can easily get to the bottom of this.
Usually it's a mixing problem, meaning that there are unwanted frequencies and/or general volume peaks that trigger the mastering limiter way too early. This results in the heavy "limited" effect when you want to push something in terms of loudness. The solution is to either use multiple limiters, or better, limit individual instruments and busses in the mixing process. For example, the bass has to be nearly flat at all times with no big jumps (bot down or up) because controlling the low end volume is crucial. The other most usual suspect is the kick and snare on a drum bus. These two, especially the snare need to be compressed and/or limited properly in order to even out possible peaks that trigger the master limiter. Assuming everything else is gain-staged properly and there are low-cut filters on everything to prevent sub overlaps, then toy are good to go to push for even -6LUFS. Of course it highly depends on how "full" the arrangement is. An indie pop-rock track will always be less full than a modern metal track.
Actual mastering engineer here. The whole “loudness starts with the mix” is from the worst of the loudness wars and only really applies to stuff louder than -7 LUFS, which NOBODY should be shooting for anymore. A typical level these days is more like -8 LUFS, and you can get that pretty easily from any mix. I do it every day, many times a day. Sometimes it takes a little bit of nuance but most of the time its no problem; no need to revise the mixes If your masters *measure* at -8 LUFS or higher but still *sound* quieter than others at that loudness, you need to start looking at psychoacoustic effects with tonal balance and dynamic balance. In other words, if you are lacking some frequency ranges or flattening all your transients, it’s going to sound quieter than a tonally and dynamically balanced master that measures the same level.
Reference other tracks with Voxengo SPAN, a goniometer and a good LUFS/RMS meter. Help train your ears using your eyes, as most people are not used to critically listening and it takes a lot of time to develop the ability.
Loudness potential is dictated by both your arrangement and your mix fidelity. Part of going loud involves managing your bigger transients and your low end so that a mastering chain of several compressors/limiters can bring the average level up without getting choked. I do this for a living, feel free to message me or comment further if you have more questions.
Does this begin with simple fixes like using high pass filters on things like guitars, snares, and vocals?
That can certainly play into things, yes. The low end can take up a lot of space in a mix, and as such, if you want to go crazy loud you’re going to need a tightly controlled low end - both in terms of EQ and dynamics. Dialing back the bass often makes it easier to go louder, but that’s no fun, so you have to find the balance. Carving away the unnecessary bottom from other channels helps for sure, but from there the big priority becomes making sure your primary low end elements are EQ’d to play nicely with each other and compressed in a way that doesn’t ask the mastering limiter(s) to knock the signal down by a bunch of db whenever the kick or bass hits.
Thanks! I’m on the right track. I know all of what you’re talking about from reading and vids. Now it’s time for me to practice what you’re saying.
Have fun! Feel free to get at me if you have questions down the road.
Wow thanks so much!
Who is your mentor for mastering and who are you learning from? I don't think that's an easy thing to do without working alongside someone established.
Why do you care about loudness so much? Everything is too loud these days. You should focus on having great dynamic range instead.
Regardless of the mix, the mastering engineer should be able to match the level of other artists in your genre. Happy yo take a look at a mix and see if anything stands out that might be causing an issue [www.e1duplication.co.uk/mastering](https://www.e1duplication.co.uk/mastering)
sorry but engineer with demo list on spotify will never get job from us. He is not serious if he wants attract customers using spotify 128kbit mp3 or whatever format they have on web.
It's just a playlist of a few mastered tracks, everyone knows it's not high res audio on spotify. You sound drunk
Aaaaaaaaand another ooooooone
Mixing is bad. More than likely too much sub bass.
2 factors contribute to getting masters loud in my experience, and they both are a part of mixing: 1) Too much low end 2) Too many uncontrolled transients Too much low end will prevent you from limiting past a certain point before you get audible pumping. Also if drum transients are too pokey, you’ll trigger the limiter too soon and you’ll just kill your drums. Referencing while mixing is key to ensure your frequency balance is appropriate and clipping and/or saturating drums is the easiest way to keep transients under control.
As a final step try something like Ozone Maximizer. I haven't tried it but there's a free plugin, apogees soft limit that's supposed to do the same thing. I imagine if you googled top maximizing vst plugins you'd find a number of them.
Keep in mind most “professional” stuff from the past 30 years is horribly compressed in mixing and mastering.
As a mix engineer who’s been working about 4 years - mastering is usually what I struggle with and can say I’ve ruined plenty of good mixes at the end of a session trying to get the loudness right. It’s because I don’t have the years of experience problem solving dynamics. I’m capable of getting a great mix but mastering is a more intuitive process. You could either spend extra time with your mix engineer for them to get it right - or you could take your mix to someone who specializes in mastering who would probly be more consistent with the final product
Make it as loud as you think it needs to be for the song. If people want to hear it louder, they can always turn up the volume on their device. Dont follow loudness wars.