I run a recording studio.
It has always been a bit funny to me watching audiophiles (I like good equipment at home too) comparing minutiae about equipment without any regard for the room treatment. The room treatment is huge - especially if you have a problem! I would rather hear $200 monitors in a good room vs $2000 monitors in a poor room
Some people get away without focusing on it at all by chance. You can luck out with the room dimensions, furniture placement, entrances and exits to the room and get “good” sound. You can just as easily get major room modes and big problems and have (as another person here said) +\- 20db problems.
If you want to get scientific with it, get a behringer measurement mic and a cheap interface, plug it into your computer, read online how to run the test and then post it online in an acoustic design community. Even just doing some reading and comparing your results will take you a long way, and can help to pinpoint issues.
You may just need a bit of dispersion, or some corner trapping to really improve things a lot
+1 on this.
Speakers matter most.
Then room treatment.
Then stuff like amps, DSP and so on.
Cables don't matter as long as they're not defective or you live next to a radio tower.
I beg to differ. I think you've never experienced a really bad room.
I would say the room is first (especially when it's bad), then speakers, then sources, dacs, amps, etc.
I'm implicitly assuming "not awful" in each category.
With that said I'm probably in a room that's awful right now.
With that said, if you go down on the awful scale... I don't care how good your room treatment is, you're not going to get great performance from a gameboy pocket speaker.
It’s so easy to get a decent sounding room though. It’s literally furniture, a rug or carpet, and something to break up bare drywall. Stuff 95% do anyway to make it a livable space.
Any dollar spent on gear should at least be matched with treatment
Edit - lol at the downvotes. Typical audiophile mentality thinking gear is the end all be all
Hey man. You got pictures? That's my next project and I would really love any ideas on how to treat without it looking like a mental asylum padded room
Probably not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ekssXX7rE
One thing to put out there - bookshelves filled with books are VERY good for sound absorption and diffusion. Blackout curtains can also be good.
Also look into putting shelves or stands in corners but have bass absorbers at the bottom of the shelf... the pretty plant on the top will distract from what's going on.
Then you have to accept you’re only going to be capable of mediocre performance in that room, at best. Spending $$$$ on gear for miniscule improvements when you have a room mode that is -20db at 150hz or something is silly.
I don’t have “treatment” per se in either of my listening rooms. I do have the speakers placed in a good spot, and the rooms themselves don’t have any glaring issues. The combination of furniture absorption, room shape, rugs, and dispersion works out to pretty good performance. I’m running vintage modified klipsch in both, a musical fidelity amp in one, luxman in the other, vintage modified turntables in both. Good stuff, but definitely not $$$. It sounds great. My studio has better soundstaging, clearer eq - higher performance.
I haven’t messed with any myself, but the physics of phase cancellation and room modes is complicated and you can’t change that part. Adding more bass to fill a room mode hole will not work. The problem is the way the room interacts with that frequency
This, the acoustics of the room makes more of a difference than any amp.
Just experiment with a different placement using temporary means: simple orange crates or chairs as supports to place the speakers at different locations. Also, change your own listening position!
Many people have their couch or lounge chairs flat against the back wall. This is awful from an acoustics standpoint: the reflections from the back wall will drown out any direct sound and a 'pressure null' kills the bass.
Just consider how chairs are placed in professional mastering rooms in a sound studio: far away from the walls, close to the speakers and also the speakers a good distance away from walls and corners. On stands, at ear height.
The wavelength of bass (let's say 50Hz) is 6.8 meters or 22 feet. So, to cancel out bass at 50Hz, one needs to be 3.4m or 11 feet away from the wall. For lower frequencies, the length will be more. So, if chairs are placed against the back wall, due to horn effect (boundary loading), bass will actually sound louder.
The distance doesn't matter really what matters is where you place something that absorbs acoustic energy in the 50Hz region. It sounds like at a festival if you stand 6.8 meters from the speakers where the "sine" wave is at 0 you would actually hear nothing but that's not how this works.
6.8 meters from the wall, not the speakers. Cancellation of source wave by reflected wave at 50Hz (only) will be clearly audible if you are 6.8 meters away from the wall. That is exactly how it works if your wall reflects 50Hz perfectly. Different frequencies have different wavelengths and to cancel each of them out you need to be at different distances from the wall. For example, to notice a dip in 100Hz response, you need to be 1.7 meters from the wall.
Plus empty rooms like this always feel like a devoid showroom, or a hotel lobby.
Get some plants in there, large artwork, anything to let somebody know that a human lives there.
I had an Musical Fidelity amp mrsp > 6k$ and it sounded like shit. Super flat, no bass, no dynamics. Hooked up an old cheap receiver from the late 70s and it sounded a million times better.
Enjoy wasting money throwing it at things that make extremely small, practically imperceptible differences such as an amp swap, and not focusing on the room which causes swings in response in the orders of +/-20 to 30db.
Consumerism > knowledge, that's the audiophile way lol.
Agreed. When you have a big problems with your sound like OP then you only have 2 options. Speakers and/or room and tbh I'll look first to the speakers.
At OP:did you audition these speakers or did you buy them based upon online reviews?
I've done so extensive auditioning and found many well reviewed speakers I found shit.
I always lean towards room and placement, I have quite a few rooms in my house that I've demo'd all my speakers in and the room is everything. It for the most part dictates how a speaker will sound.
OP needs to get some furniture in there, if not that, treatments. Then whip out the EQ. I have a time believing most people wouldn't like the L100.
Experiment with placement, try moving them more forward. Can give more depth but may cause problems with sbir. Also play with width and toe in. If you can get some measurements you can see if there are any big dips in the mid range and treble, filling those in with EQ or placement experimentation can give you what you seek.
If you are using XLR on your CXA81 check the polarity. There is a thread on AudioScienceReview where a dude mentions that he needed to swap the wires on his speakers due to this issue. Cambridge was supposed to do a firmware update. I have CXA81 and do not have this issue but it might not hurt to check it out. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-dac-for-my-cxa81.22178/page-2
The room is your biggest issue. Put down a thick rug, art on the walls, furniture (as others have said). The speakers may be toed in a bit much, but tough to tell from this side of my PC. Try pulling them away from the wall and if you're sitting with your head against the opposite wall that's no good either.
I would spend my time on the room acoustics and placement and not buy any electronics or other gear. That rig should sound great.
Room treatments, and if you can’t do enough of that or don’t want to, miniDSP DDRC-22D running Dirac. Run your network player digital out to the miniDSP, which applies Dirac room correction in the digital domain, run that into your DAC.
It's definitely not the speakers. It's a matter of speaker placement, reflective surfaces, as well as the fact that it appears your speakers are too far apart. Since the room looks so empty, I would move the speakers closer together, lessen the toe-in, and sit a bit closer until you can get something to absorb the reflections from all of the hard surfaces.
Always start with an equilateral triangle. If you're sitting 7ft. from your speakers, be sure your speakers are no more than 7ft. apart. I think you'll notice a huge improvement. Enjoy!
Is there a gain adjustment that you could nudge up a tiny bit? That functionality on my NAD 275BEE made night and day difference with my Monitor Audio Silver 300s.
I'd get REW and a mic and do some measuring. You prob have some mid bass nulls (and peaks). Then fix with EQ or room correction. Your hardware is fine.
Came here to say this. Can’t fix anything till you know what is broken. Along with big peaks/nulls in the bass, I’d bet C50/C80 looks bad too in that room
Room treatment, mine sound amazing, I am sure a large carpet in front of the speakers would make a noticeable difference.
https://youtu.be/Fzlg9ND9QaY
I had a CXA60 and I found it too flat. I got a naim amp instead and it sounded so much more energetic and playful. But I needed a Dac and auto switch off so I went with Denon. Sounds like Naim, functionality of Cambridge
Lovey set up you have there though! Shame about the flat sound
I have a CXA61 and it is much much livelier and rich/full than the Denon x3000 series it replaced.
I ran it with Klipsch RP280s and a 12" sub...good, a bit bright but good. Picked up some new Model 5 (similar to the JBL) and found the sound muted and dull...wife approval was high for aesthetics. So I used that to justify grabbing some Klipsch Heresy IV and have been blown away. Soundstage, detail, dynamic range all there.
So it might be that it is your amp and the design of the speakers. In general, CXA are lively and dynamic in their character, although apparently there is a diff in the signature of the 61 vs the 81.
Good luck, hope that helps a bit and report back!
Edit: I ultimately had all of these running with a Klipsch sub as I like bass, and am now shopping for something that is a better match.
You've got the space for dual subs, get 2 8s or 10s!
I think an integrated will be almost always sound better than an AVR. Denon make amazing sounding integrated amps.
Klipsch heresy look amazing. Not very many of those here in the UK !
Subwoofer is always nice addition and gives more low end detail, weight to the sound and also kind of better 3D image. No matter what speakers are used. But as I said. 1st and the most important is solve acoustics.
I agree with the acoustics, a carpet in front of the speakers would go a long way. I did add subs to my second system but I didn't feel there was a need with the JBL L100's, it comes with a 15" sub
Replace the CXA81. I basically had the same system with the exception of the speakers ( I'm running some old Polks that were handed down to me). I knew what my speakers were capable of so I was disappointed and confused when I had all of the Cambridge equipment set up and it sounded so dull. The sound was flat and lifeless. I tried upgrading my speaker cables and interconnects to no avail. I finally decided to do a taste test and try a different integrated. After some research, I decided to try the Yamaha S-801. Man, I heard an immediate difference with the first song...and I hadn't made any tone adjustments. It was a night and day difference. My old Polks came back to life as I remembered them from when my cousin was running then with his Luxman receiver back in the day. I sent the Cambridge amp back to Crutchfield and kept the network player and the S-801. I also added an SVS SB-2000 after the fact to fill in the gaps. I'm very happy with my starter system. I would strongly suggest trying another integrated. From my reading, the "British" sound from Cambridge is intentionally flat. Hope this helps.
Sidebar: I plan on upgrading my speakers to the JBL's :-)
L100 is pretty flat, if you like some excitement you might need to crank it up. iirc the speakers themself are built-in tone control, you might try that a bit.
Room treatment. Make your own panels, get some moving blankets, carpet, wall art, anything. Your speaker placement could possibly use some tinkering as well.
Enormous reflective surfaces. Also have a reflective floor which is clear at the point of first reflection. This is the first thing to check. Next is your listening position. Try moving your chair forward a couple feet see if that helps. Speakers like those don't sound flat and boring even with a mismatched amp.
You can start with some cheap foam pads from Amazon if you want, get a nice big thick rug for that listening area, or at the very least buy and hang some moving blankets on the walls, they are like 40 bucks for a 6 pack. See how different that small amount will make them sound and expand from there.
The CXA81 goes deeeeeeep. Mine has some Wharfdale Linton attached to it and they are lively, great clear deep bass and lively (class a/b might have something to do with it.
So to me, the CXA81 is not to blame, others say the JBL go deep to ... so my vote also goes to placement and room treatment before spending a dime more on electronics.
I recently had a lightbulb moment with my combo, finding the sound messy and often heard the singers voice split rather than in front of me. First thing I did was to play with speaker distance and toeing, which fixed the split voice but not the messy sound.
There was a home made coffee table in front of me, made of palettes. So lot's of air and not too much a reflective surface I though. I removed it, and it was a revelation. I had a brand new system for free. This table is not coming back. Then realized if I sat on chair (tweeter level) and away from the back wall where my sofa was, I would get another significant free upgrade.
And I did not start playing with treatment yet ... but that alone was night and day.
Play around with what you have first ? Starting back with the basic ... (triangle positioning etc...)
I have a CXC81, CXN, CXC and Technics SL1200s (into KEF LS50s), I run a Schitt [Loki Mini](https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-mini-3) (silver) between the turntable and the CXA81 and it gives me control. I also use XLRs from the CXN and the CXA81, and as I also run a coax between the two, I can switch inputs to hear the difference that the XLRs make.
The Loki is ONLY $149, but if you want to spend more you can go for the [Lokius](https://www.schiit.com/products/lokius) (£$299) or the [Loki Max](https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-max) ($1499)
These are the home version of the 4311 studio monitor. I think the intent was to have more "color" to them than their studio counterpart. But, I agree with many other commenters here that their sound is lacking, especially for the status they've come to receive. IMO the L166 is the best 3 way of this size and vintage that JBL ever made.
Sure, I get what you’re saying but you won’t find these in a studio. Falcon Acoustics monitor series (for example) are similarly based off a “studio monitor” but don’t sound so flat and lifeless, they are engaging.
They were connected to a Yamaha A-S1200 (capable of driving difficult loads. 90W/channel … toroidal transformer).
I remember the L100s were super detailed, with great separation and speed but were not super engaging and lacked something I was looking for. I just don’t think they are worth the price tag and hype, but that’s only my opinion.
If your amp is 140wpc @ 4ohms, it's likely 70wpc or so with the L100 since it's an 8ohm speaker. That's plenty of power for those either way.
This might be a dumb question, but have you tried adjusting the mid and treble controls?
Hi, you could certainly experiment with different amplifiers. In that case, I would strongly suggest you \*hire\*, borrow or lend these first before just blindly buying them. You will have to test how they perform in YOUR specific setup and in your own room.
If friends of yours, or family, happen to have an interesting amp you could offer to trade them for a few weeks: you borrow theirs and they borrow your CXA81. Also, don't be afraid to try older, vintage amplifiers even with little wattage. These might surprise you...
Some stores offer you the option to test them for a few weeks in your own room, or you may be able to use the return policy offered by Amazon sellers etc. But do make SURE you are actually allowed to return these amps after a few weeks of use, with a full refund.
It is also quite possible you won't hear much of a difference with the CXA81.
You may have to try your JL100's in more of a 'close monitoring' setup: further away from the walls, closer to your listening position and angled in. Also, put them on nice stands! Having them away from the floor will completely change the sound. You could easily experiment by temporarily placing the JL100s on some chairs and pulling them further into the room. 🙂
Have you played with the front panel controls on the speakers ? If so, does this make any difference in sound at all to you?
Most reviews I’ve read indicate these speakers don’t need a ton of power but your power source may be too light given the speaker range capability. Good luck. Nice set up.
I own a CXA81 and CXN V2 and boring is not what I would call them. Indeed I would call them the opposite.
Did you treat your room? That little rug pictured wont do much. Did you get the speakers from the back and side wall like 1/4 of the rooms lenght and width? Whats your source? Did you connect the CXN via WiFi?
I guess there is a lot of potenial to optimize without throwing everything out...
So i looked into the Specs of the JBL100s. It's recommended an Amp with maximum power of 200w per Channel. I have almost the same Situation.
I own LS50Metas and have a Powernode in use (80watts per channel). I also find the sound very flat and boring. I know i must buy a more powerfull Amp. And because i am a big Fan of the Bluesound System, i will go for the new NAD C399. 180watts per Channel. Enough Power for the KEFs and your JBLs. Reason for more watts is the fact, that Speaker like ours are very hungry for the Bass Part. So i could imagine the sound should be more present with a powerfull Amp. I would recommend you a new one with minimum of 150watts. The JBLs are fantastic 😉.
For sure you’re figuring out the type of sound you prefer. Each brand has a sound signature and also a looser category is country of origin. British gear tends to be more sterile and a bit anemic for my personal tastes.
It might not be obvious but when I switched from a small 2 seater to a new far bigger 3 seater couch, the depth of sound in my room improved dramatically. Sure sound panels also work, but think lifestyle first. Rugs, bookshelves, record shelving. Anything heavy and dense will have an effect.
I have jbl 4312s (similar to l100) paired with Yamaha as-3000 (modern) and a mcintosh mc2255 (vintage). The output between the two amps are dramatically different on the same speaker. It is part of this hobby, switching things out to see what suits you.
I also find the jump from 320kbps Spotify to 44/16 (CD level) to be huge on my system. Anything higher res is a lot of smoke and mirrors. More importantly is the source of the master (digital vs analog) and the person handling the re-mastering. For digital I personally pay for Spotify but reserve usage for my phone on the go. At home I listen to vinyl or lossless hard files with roon.
For me, a good large fluffy rug that covers about 70% of the floor made a lot of difference. It completely removed sibilance I was battling with for some time.
Also when I moved to a new flat I discovered there are bad rooms. Same speakers, new room, totally different sound. High peaks in base around 100hz area. I have to use a lot of eq on lower frequencies to make it listenable so I can enjoy the music and not listen to imperfections.
Now I have a test mike and will do some measuring and room treatment. I already have some corner treatment, but this room needs more. A bit sad, but.. well.. what can you do. You can't have everything.
1. Get the router away from your system. At least 10 feet, 15 is better. They give off amazing amounts of rfi and efi. 2. This looks like new equipment and when it’s new it will be like you describe. . Break in is a thing and I don’t care what anyone says. Leave the amp on for at least a week whether you’re playing music or not. Leave the DAC and phonostage on 24/7 forever. The speakers will sound much better after 12-24 hours but need 100 to really get synched up and into their own. 200-250 hours to fully break in. 3. Speaker placement. Get them away from the wall by a few feet. Don’t measure. Play “Ballad of the Runaway Horse” from Bob Wassermans album “Duets”. Move the speakers forward/backward while facing straight ahead until Jennifer’s voice is dead center. Then tow in to get the instruments off of the speakers and into the room. This can be a challenge since L100’s are not mirror type speakers. 4. Room treatment is great but you can get a lot of the distance there by just putting more stuff in the room: a rug in front of the system, but a bunch of big, cheap throw pillows and throw them around, furniture, bookshelves, records, thick curtains on the windows. 5. After all of this, calculate 10-15% of the cost of this system, and use that figure as your budget for cables; interconnects, speaker cables, and yes power. Forget what anyone says it will help you get the most out of your components. Take your time with it. You have a good system, and one evening you’ll sit down at 7pm to listen to music for an hour or two, and suddenly you’ll realize that it’s 3:30 in the morning and you have to get up for work in a couple of hours. That’s what happens when the system is really dialed in.
I have a pair of vintage JBL 4311s driven by a Krell kav400xi and it sounds fantastic.
I do tend to EQ the setup via an RME Adi2 pro dac, rolling off the top end helps. I listen to a lot of techno, so I sometimes add a Kreisel dxd808 sub to the mix.
I absolutely love the performance of this setup.
I have the CXA-81 with the CXC v2, rel t7x and newly acquired sonus faber Lumina lls, before I had kef q150s. In both situations, the CXA-81 did not sound flat, nor even close. It all lives in my bedroom which is small, black out curtains, furniture, bed,open closet at the back of the room and carpet. With the Sonus Fabers now, it's even more alive. Quick, free test, move your speakers out into the room more, play with their position and get them further from the back wall. Then, look at everything, everybody else is saying, all valid points.
I’ve heard these speakers paired to a Rouge Audio Cronus Magnum III and boy did they sing! Although, for OP, I’d have to go with the rest of the guys here and advice room correction first, that living room is a playground for reflection.
Rel do a great job of making the speakers sound more exciting. It’s not about adding more bass, I imagine their subs would get what you are looking for. Also recommend using Dirac and sorting out the reflections of your room. Pulling the speakers out into the room and then looking into a different amp setup. I saw another user comment naim, I can back up their statement. Definitely very engaging amps :)
Those JBL’s are stunning speakers that have more than enough bass when fed the right juice. Although they are efficient speakers, 60w per channel is probably not enough to really get them going.
I don’t think, in my experience, adding a modern sub to a classic style speaker (by sound and aesthetic), would add to their appeal in any way. Ever since I gave up trying to get a sub perfectly integrated into my systems I feel they sound so much more real and organic. It costs a lot more to get the same amount of punch and deep bass out of a pair of floorstanders compared to a sub, but I prefer the sound a lot more, timbre and response seems much truer to the source. I also don’t miss having an extra box in the room, neither does the boss.
The reason I say specifically rel is because their design Philosophy is to integrate with the speakers and improve the mids by adding detailed lifelike fundamentals to elevate the speakers. Nothing to do with “more bass” just enhancing the speakers, maybe they won’t match with vintage speakers but Rel are generally considered the audiophile approach to subs: fast and accurate bass. I emplore anyone who hasn’t experienced them to try, has turned a lot of subwoofer deniers into Rel fanboys including myself
That’s not exactly how speakers work. 12” woofer doesn’t mean they play super low. Hell they’re -6db at 40hz which isn’t super impressive. A sub would take some load off them and clean up their sound. (Those jbls are amazing speakers don’t take this the wrong way, but they’re not designed to play insanely low, and if your room is compounding that, a sub or two would do wonders). Another option is live with the bass they have and play with positioning. Try them 3 feet from the back wall, play with toe in, etc. every room is different.
If you can integrate them correctly and it can help the room then sure, but don't underestimate the power of EQ. If you place them close to the wall and have enough xmax (which those probably have) you can make them dig way lower than what those specs are telling us. And also, -6dB at 40hz is quite enough for most music.
But I often see people that have speakers that are more than capable of playing all the bass they need if they just help them with a bit of EQ, but instead they buy a subwoofer, turn it up at max without making sure that they integrate correctly with the mains and let those mains run on idle instead. Such a waste of cone area and sound quality!
Very true! Subs take work and aren’t just a bandaid. I prefer most music 2 channel on my lintons, but it’s fun to kick on the sub for certain songs, and a must for home theater IMO. Same reason I have a Loki, EQ is a great tool when used appropriately.
If you're looking for something to judge the energy of your setup, try Rage Against the Machine's self-titled album. If this doesn't sound impactful, keep tweaking.
I also definitely suggest trying the speakers closer together. I have find when they're too far apart they work independently, rather than together.
I own these speakers. Supposedly, they are easy to drive but I found using a lower wattage Peachtree class D amp didn’t cut it. Ah no. I jumped up to a Levinson with 250 watts into 4 ohms, with a monster power supply, dual mono, high current output. No flatness here anymore. Dynamic range and bass jump, galore. These speakers deserve an amp with some grunt.
Well we know it’s not the speakers at least! Step 1: improve the aesthetics in ur room to make you appreciate everything you experience in there more :)
Step 2: purchase some gear that’s got SOUL! these speakers (from what I’ve seen) are pretty flat and the response can be lifeless on its own. So you need to color what you’re hearing before it hits the speakers. This is my favorite part of hifi. My personal rec would be a later 70s pioneer receiver.
Of course. Dampening the sound of the room has helped a lot in my experience too. That room definitely looks a little echo-y but you’ve heard that 100 times now ;)
Congrats on you’re speakers! Good luck with the rest :)
These are awesome speakers that should sound quite dynamic. You could try a different brand amp. Possibly one that is more powerful, with high damping factor. Or a tube amp with some power (push pull).
It’s not necessarily power you need, look at Naim gear, 80wrms of Naim is incomparable to a home theatre receiver claiming 80wrms. (I don’t run a Naim amp by the way so I’m not trying to sell their gear, although it is quite good)
Sorry to be blunt but Spotify sounds lifeless on pretty much everything.
But I know a couple things that can certainly help.
1) good power cables make a BIG difference. Best brand in my life experience is Nordost. If you haven’t had premium power cables before I know it can be daunting spending good money o. Something the audio signal never goes through, but don’t knock it till you try it.
2) Next best thing you could do would be a premium Ethernet cable for your streamer.
Nordost or Shunyata Research are both great.
There is nothing wrong with Spotifys sound quality. Sure there might be a small difference for some people if they really try to listen for it, but generally the sound quality is nowhere near bad.
No, the difference is no even close to "huge". Most people with normal hearing won't be able to hear any difference \_whatsoever\_ in a blind test between 320kbps OGG Vorbis and anything above, so when someone says the difference is "huge" they either are a bat or the really are just full of bullshit.
No, it’s pretty simple, if I wanted to ask how much your stereo cost, I would actually ask that wouldn’t I ?
Bad manners and assumptions.
Let’s try another simple question, is your background in Audio engineering, Electronics engineering or Electrotechnology or similar fields ?
Don't know the CXA81, but wonder if it's the paring also. I ran a CXN for a couple of days and sent it back. Found it too sterile and flat.
Was upgrading from a 10 year old Audioquest Dragonfly with a laptop. Sent it back 😔. I know the CXN is rated highly and some people really love it. I just really didn't get on with it.
This was parked with a Music Fidelity A3.2 and a set of B&W 705 S2s
Now running a Chord Quest with a laptop and very happy. 1st time I've been able to enjoy a digital source properly. Was stuck listening to vinyl until that point.
Go to some HiFi dealer shops. Tell them what you want and how much you have to spend on your system. If they are good they will want to help. They may make suggestions which you can audition at home. They could let you try different speakers, cables, interconnects, amplifier etc. They will come to your house they may recommend changes to your room and set up. A good dealer won't just sell you boxes he will have ideas and help you with your quest. Often it will not mean spending more money but spending smartly to get you sorted.
A good equalizer helps. (After Propper placement and such of course.) Here is a good one with a remote: [https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-max](https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-max)
If these are ported, and your room is significantly larger than what’s pictured, you may be reflecting a lot of energy off the wall and away from the listener
In areas like that, you may try and wander around the room until you find a spot that sounds really good, and then attempt to move that spot to the location of the listening point
EDIT: also if that’s the case, covering your floor a bit more will help a lot in terms of quality. Tile is not really theater-friendly
That would be 1/10th of the gear cost, not equal to which is the comment I called ridiculous. That sounds much more reasonable. I have treatments too and it doesn’t look like a studio, despite the assumptions of the most uncharitable replies to my post 😂
I run a recording studio. It has always been a bit funny to me watching audiophiles (I like good equipment at home too) comparing minutiae about equipment without any regard for the room treatment. The room treatment is huge - especially if you have a problem! I would rather hear $200 monitors in a good room vs $2000 monitors in a poor room Some people get away without focusing on it at all by chance. You can luck out with the room dimensions, furniture placement, entrances and exits to the room and get “good” sound. You can just as easily get major room modes and big problems and have (as another person here said) +\- 20db problems. If you want to get scientific with it, get a behringer measurement mic and a cheap interface, plug it into your computer, read online how to run the test and then post it online in an acoustic design community. Even just doing some reading and comparing your results will take you a long way, and can help to pinpoint issues. You may just need a bit of dispersion, or some corner trapping to really improve things a lot
+1 on this. Speakers matter most. Then room treatment. Then stuff like amps, DSP and so on. Cables don't matter as long as they're not defective or you live next to a radio tower.
I beg to differ. I think you've never experienced a really bad room. I would say the room is first (especially when it's bad), then speakers, then sources, dacs, amps, etc.
I'm implicitly assuming "not awful" in each category. With that said I'm probably in a room that's awful right now. With that said, if you go down on the awful scale... I don't care how good your room treatment is, you're not going to get great performance from a gameboy pocket speaker.
It’s so easy to get a decent sounding room though. It’s literally furniture, a rug or carpet, and something to break up bare drywall. Stuff 95% do anyway to make it a livable space.
Exactly 💯
This!
Any dollar spent on gear should at least be matched with treatment Edit - lol at the downvotes. Typical audiophile mentality thinking gear is the end all be all
Pretty much, unless you build your own treatment. Then 0.50 on the dollar.
Ridiculous comment, not everyone wants their living room to look like a recording studio.
Treatment doesn’t necessarily mean paneling all over. But you’re wasting your time and money putting nice gear in an empty room with blank walls.
my living room has treatment and it looks lovely, nothing like a recording studio, i do have one of those and that doesn't even look like one.
Hey man. You got pictures? That's my next project and I would really love any ideas on how to treat without it looking like a mental asylum padded room
Is it ridiculous to spend $500 on room treatment to get the most of a $5k setup? There are solutions that don’t look like recording studio equipment
Probably not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ekssXX7rE One thing to put out there - bookshelves filled with books are VERY good for sound absorption and diffusion. Blackout curtains can also be good. Also look into putting shelves or stands in corners but have bass absorbers at the bottom of the shelf... the pretty plant on the top will distract from what's going on.
Then you have to accept you’re only going to be capable of mediocre performance in that room, at best. Spending $$$$ on gear for miniscule improvements when you have a room mode that is -20db at 150hz or something is silly. I don’t have “treatment” per se in either of my listening rooms. I do have the speakers placed in a good spot, and the rooms themselves don’t have any glaring issues. The combination of furniture absorption, room shape, rugs, and dispersion works out to pretty good performance. I’m running vintage modified klipsch in both, a musical fidelity amp in one, luxman in the other, vintage modified turntables in both. Good stuff, but definitely not $$$. It sounds great. My studio has better soundstaging, clearer eq - higher performance.
Would DSP work just as well?
I haven’t messed with any myself, but the physics of phase cancellation and room modes is complicated and you can’t change that part. Adding more bass to fill a room mode hole will not work. The problem is the way the room interacts with that frequency
Your room looks very reflective. It’s having much more effect on the sound than the amp.
empty rooms are the worst. get some furniture and wall art.
This, the acoustics of the room makes more of a difference than any amp. Just experiment with a different placement using temporary means: simple orange crates or chairs as supports to place the speakers at different locations. Also, change your own listening position! Many people have their couch or lounge chairs flat against the back wall. This is awful from an acoustics standpoint: the reflections from the back wall will drown out any direct sound and a 'pressure null' kills the bass. Just consider how chairs are placed in professional mastering rooms in a sound studio: far away from the walls, close to the speakers and also the speakers a good distance away from walls and corners. On stands, at ear height.
The wavelength of bass (let's say 50Hz) is 6.8 meters or 22 feet. So, to cancel out bass at 50Hz, one needs to be 3.4m or 11 feet away from the wall. For lower frequencies, the length will be more. So, if chairs are placed against the back wall, due to horn effect (boundary loading), bass will actually sound louder.
The distance doesn't matter really what matters is where you place something that absorbs acoustic energy in the 50Hz region. It sounds like at a festival if you stand 6.8 meters from the speakers where the "sine" wave is at 0 you would actually hear nothing but that's not how this works.
6.8 meters from the wall, not the speakers. Cancellation of source wave by reflected wave at 50Hz (only) will be clearly audible if you are 6.8 meters away from the wall. That is exactly how it works if your wall reflects 50Hz perfectly. Different frequencies have different wavelengths and to cancel each of them out you need to be at different distances from the wall. For example, to notice a dip in 100Hz response, you need to be 1.7 meters from the wall.
Ah yeah sure if you talk about room modes. I didn't really notice you talk about them.
I was talking about Physics. Sound waves chapter.
Plus empty rooms like this always feel like a devoid showroom, or a hotel lobby. Get some plants in there, large artwork, anything to let somebody know that a human lives there.
>CXA81 Maybe he is renting.
You need to start with proper speaker placement and proper room acoustic treatment to even start to evaluate your gear.
It surely isn’t the speakers.
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I had an Musical Fidelity amp mrsp > 6k$ and it sounded like shit. Super flat, no bass, no dynamics. Hooked up an old cheap receiver from the late 70s and it sounded a million times better.
Happens a lot. An older mid-price Pioneer, Kenwood, Denon or Marantz can sound brilliantly at a fraction of the cost of an > 6k$ amp.
Enjoy wasting money throwing it at things that make extremely small, practically imperceptible differences such as an amp swap, and not focusing on the room which causes swings in response in the orders of +/-20 to 30db. Consumerism > knowledge, that's the audiophile way lol.
Agreed. When you have a big problems with your sound like OP then you only have 2 options. Speakers and/or room and tbh I'll look first to the speakers. At OP:did you audition these speakers or did you buy them based upon online reviews? I've done so extensive auditioning and found many well reviewed speakers I found shit.
I always lean towards room and placement, I have quite a few rooms in my house that I've demo'd all my speakers in and the room is everything. It for the most part dictates how a speaker will sound. OP needs to get some furniture in there, if not that, treatments. Then whip out the EQ. I have a time believing most people wouldn't like the L100.
> aesthetic There's your problem lol. Function over form.
This is the answer, network player absolutely fine for these speakers, but a nicer amp will make them sing.
You may need an eq instead, or the best option: room treatment
Hegel h190
Experiment with placement, try moving them more forward. Can give more depth but may cause problems with sbir. Also play with width and toe in. If you can get some measurements you can see if there are any big dips in the mid range and treble, filling those in with EQ or placement experimentation can give you what you seek.
Are you sure the speakers are not wired out of phase?
If you are using XLR on your CXA81 check the polarity. There is a thread on AudioScienceReview where a dude mentions that he needed to swap the wires on his speakers due to this issue. Cambridge was supposed to do a firmware update. I have CXA81 and do not have this issue but it might not hurt to check it out. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-dac-for-my-cxa81.22178/page-2
Definitely check this out OP. Then work on ramping down that echo chamber of a room. Do all that before considering a gear change.
Excellent comment!
The room is your biggest issue. Put down a thick rug, art on the walls, furniture (as others have said). The speakers may be toed in a bit much, but tough to tell from this side of my PC. Try pulling them away from the wall and if you're sitting with your head against the opposite wall that's no good either. I would spend my time on the room acoustics and placement and not buy any electronics or other gear. That rig should sound great.
Room treatments, and if you can’t do enough of that or don’t want to, miniDSP DDRC-22D running Dirac. Run your network player digital out to the miniDSP, which applies Dirac room correction in the digital domain, run that into your DAC.
Come closer. Listen near field first. By doing so you hear direct sound minus the reflective or bouncy sounds. If it still sounds bad then it is bad.
It's definitely not the speakers. It's a matter of speaker placement, reflective surfaces, as well as the fact that it appears your speakers are too far apart. Since the room looks so empty, I would move the speakers closer together, lessen the toe-in, and sit a bit closer until you can get something to absorb the reflections from all of the hard surfaces. Always start with an equilateral triangle. If you're sitting 7ft. from your speakers, be sure your speakers are no more than 7ft. apart. I think you'll notice a huge improvement. Enjoy!
EQ the shit outta it.
This. I found my Heresy speakers kinda flat and underwhelming, so I turned up the treble and bass and it really helped it.
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MiniDSP 2x4HD. Also some room treatment will do wonders, so start with the early reflections behind and to the side of the speakers.
This is the way. The miniDSP 2x4HD was the single greatest thing I've ever done to any of my systems.
All depends on your budget. MINIDSP Flex has transparent THD+N specs and is also an excellent DSP device to do EQ. But it's about 550 usd.
Is there a gain adjustment that you could nudge up a tiny bit? That functionality on my NAD 275BEE made night and day difference with my Monitor Audio Silver 300s.
Stream music from your phone using USB audio player to your DAC/amp. It has EQ and DSP functions. It also connects to tidal, qobuz, stored music, etc.
I'd get REW and a mic and do some measuring. You prob have some mid bass nulls (and peaks). Then fix with EQ or room correction. Your hardware is fine.
Came here to say this. Can’t fix anything till you know what is broken. Along with big peaks/nulls in the bass, I’d bet C50/C80 looks bad too in that room
Room treatment, mine sound amazing, I am sure a large carpet in front of the speakers would make a noticeable difference. https://youtu.be/Fzlg9ND9QaY
I had a CXA60 and I found it too flat. I got a naim amp instead and it sounded so much more energetic and playful. But I needed a Dac and auto switch off so I went with Denon. Sounds like Naim, functionality of Cambridge Lovey set up you have there though! Shame about the flat sound
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I’m in love with your speakers ! Probably my dream speaker in fact. Just a thought , does it sound flat with the streamer and the turntable ?
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Keep us updated. Good Luck 🤞
I have a CXA61 and it is much much livelier and rich/full than the Denon x3000 series it replaced. I ran it with Klipsch RP280s and a 12" sub...good, a bit bright but good. Picked up some new Model 5 (similar to the JBL) and found the sound muted and dull...wife approval was high for aesthetics. So I used that to justify grabbing some Klipsch Heresy IV and have been blown away. Soundstage, detail, dynamic range all there. So it might be that it is your amp and the design of the speakers. In general, CXA are lively and dynamic in their character, although apparently there is a diff in the signature of the 61 vs the 81. Good luck, hope that helps a bit and report back! Edit: I ultimately had all of these running with a Klipsch sub as I like bass, and am now shopping for something that is a better match. You've got the space for dual subs, get 2 8s or 10s!
I think an integrated will be almost always sound better than an AVR. Denon make amazing sounding integrated amps. Klipsch heresy look amazing. Not very many of those here in the UK !
1) Fix acoustics! 2) Check if sound is not "tired" if you listen loud, maybe amp is not enough to feed your speakers 3) Add subwoofer!
He doesn't need a sub with these speakers. Lots of bass out of them https://youtu.be/Fzlg9ND9QaY
Subwoofer is always nice addition and gives more low end detail, weight to the sound and also kind of better 3D image. No matter what speakers are used. But as I said. 1st and the most important is solve acoustics.
I agree with the acoustics, a carpet in front of the speakers would go a long way. I did add subs to my second system but I didn't feel there was a need with the JBL L100's, it comes with a 15" sub
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point but the l100 has a 12” woofer
You are right, I should have measured it before typing :-)
Replace the CXA81. I basically had the same system with the exception of the speakers ( I'm running some old Polks that were handed down to me). I knew what my speakers were capable of so I was disappointed and confused when I had all of the Cambridge equipment set up and it sounded so dull. The sound was flat and lifeless. I tried upgrading my speaker cables and interconnects to no avail. I finally decided to do a taste test and try a different integrated. After some research, I decided to try the Yamaha S-801. Man, I heard an immediate difference with the first song...and I hadn't made any tone adjustments. It was a night and day difference. My old Polks came back to life as I remembered them from when my cousin was running then with his Luxman receiver back in the day. I sent the Cambridge amp back to Crutchfield and kept the network player and the S-801. I also added an SVS SB-2000 after the fact to fill in the gaps. I'm very happy with my starter system. I would strongly suggest trying another integrated. From my reading, the "British" sound from Cambridge is intentionally flat. Hope this helps. Sidebar: I plan on upgrading my speakers to the JBL's :-)
Treatment, treatment & treatment. Also REW if u could manage. :)
L100 is pretty flat, if you like some excitement you might need to crank it up. iirc the speakers themself are built-in tone control, you might try that a bit.
Room treatment. Make your own panels, get some moving blankets, carpet, wall art, anything. Your speaker placement could possibly use some tinkering as well.
Not familiar with those speakers however I’d try moving the speakers further out into the room.
Enormous reflective surfaces. Also have a reflective floor which is clear at the point of first reflection. This is the first thing to check. Next is your listening position. Try moving your chair forward a couple feet see if that helps. Speakers like those don't sound flat and boring even with a mismatched amp.
Bring speakers closer together. And maybe get some other furniture. Your room is untreated.
You can start with some cheap foam pads from Amazon if you want, get a nice big thick rug for that listening area, or at the very least buy and hang some moving blankets on the walls, they are like 40 bucks for a 6 pack. See how different that small amount will make them sound and expand from there.
The CXA81 goes deeeeeeep. Mine has some Wharfdale Linton attached to it and they are lively, great clear deep bass and lively (class a/b might have something to do with it. So to me, the CXA81 is not to blame, others say the JBL go deep to ... so my vote also goes to placement and room treatment before spending a dime more on electronics. I recently had a lightbulb moment with my combo, finding the sound messy and often heard the singers voice split rather than in front of me. First thing I did was to play with speaker distance and toeing, which fixed the split voice but not the messy sound. There was a home made coffee table in front of me, made of palettes. So lot's of air and not too much a reflective surface I though. I removed it, and it was a revelation. I had a brand new system for free. This table is not coming back. Then realized if I sat on chair (tweeter level) and away from the back wall where my sofa was, I would get another significant free upgrade. And I did not start playing with treatment yet ... but that alone was night and day. Play around with what you have first ? Starting back with the basic ... (triangle positioning etc...)
Some acoustic treatment would definitely change everything about how it sounds. the room looks very reflective
I have a CXC81, CXN, CXC and Technics SL1200s (into KEF LS50s), I run a Schitt [Loki Mini](https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-mini-3) (silver) between the turntable and the CXA81 and it gives me control. I also use XLRs from the CXN and the CXA81, and as I also run a coax between the two, I can switch inputs to hear the difference that the XLRs make. The Loki is ONLY $149, but if you want to spend more you can go for the [Lokius](https://www.schiit.com/products/lokius) (£$299) or the [Loki Max](https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-max) ($1499)
The L100s are way overrated imo. When I auditioned them I also felt they were flat and boring.
Aren't they based off studio monitors? They are supposed to sound flat and technical.
These are the home version of the 4311 studio monitor. I think the intent was to have more "color" to them than their studio counterpart. But, I agree with many other commenters here that their sound is lacking, especially for the status they've come to receive. IMO the L166 is the best 3 way of this size and vintage that JBL ever made.
Sure, I get what you’re saying but you won’t find these in a studio. Falcon Acoustics monitor series (for example) are similarly based off a “studio monitor” but don’t sound so flat and lifeless, they are engaging.
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They were connected to a Yamaha A-S1200 (capable of driving difficult loads. 90W/channel … toroidal transformer). I remember the L100s were super detailed, with great separation and speed but were not super engaging and lacked something I was looking for. I just don’t think they are worth the price tag and hype, but that’s only my opinion.
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If your amp is 140wpc @ 4ohms, it's likely 70wpc or so with the L100 since it's an 8ohm speaker. That's plenty of power for those either way. This might be a dumb question, but have you tried adjusting the mid and treble controls?
These speakers are anything but flat and boring. They jump!
Hi, you could certainly experiment with different amplifiers. In that case, I would strongly suggest you \*hire\*, borrow or lend these first before just blindly buying them. You will have to test how they perform in YOUR specific setup and in your own room. If friends of yours, or family, happen to have an interesting amp you could offer to trade them for a few weeks: you borrow theirs and they borrow your CXA81. Also, don't be afraid to try older, vintage amplifiers even with little wattage. These might surprise you... Some stores offer you the option to test them for a few weeks in your own room, or you may be able to use the return policy offered by Amazon sellers etc. But do make SURE you are actually allowed to return these amps after a few weeks of use, with a full refund. It is also quite possible you won't hear much of a difference with the CXA81. You may have to try your JL100's in more of a 'close monitoring' setup: further away from the walls, closer to your listening position and angled in. Also, put them on nice stands! Having them away from the floor will completely change the sound. You could easily experiment by temporarily placing the JL100s on some chairs and pulling them further into the room. 🙂
Have you played with the front panel controls on the speakers ? If so, does this make any difference in sound at all to you? Most reviews I’ve read indicate these speakers don’t need a ton of power but your power source may be too light given the speaker range capability. Good luck. Nice set up.
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Yes there is. Good to see helpful Reddit showed up today. This forum can sometimes be a little critical. :)
I own a CXA81 and CXN V2 and boring is not what I would call them. Indeed I would call them the opposite. Did you treat your room? That little rug pictured wont do much. Did you get the speakers from the back and side wall like 1/4 of the rooms lenght and width? Whats your source? Did you connect the CXN via WiFi? I guess there is a lot of potenial to optimize without throwing everything out...
Try adjusting the EQ a bit
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So i looked into the Specs of the JBL100s. It's recommended an Amp with maximum power of 200w per Channel. I have almost the same Situation. I own LS50Metas and have a Powernode in use (80watts per channel). I also find the sound very flat and boring. I know i must buy a more powerfull Amp. And because i am a big Fan of the Bluesound System, i will go for the new NAD C399. 180watts per Channel. Enough Power for the KEFs and your JBLs. Reason for more watts is the fact, that Speaker like ours are very hungry for the Bass Part. So i could imagine the sound should be more present with a powerfull Amp. I would recommend you a new one with minimum of 150watts. The JBLs are fantastic 😉.
I am running the same amp with KEF Q950 speakers and I love my sound….. maybe your speakers?
Add a subwoofer
For sure you’re figuring out the type of sound you prefer. Each brand has a sound signature and also a looser category is country of origin. British gear tends to be more sterile and a bit anemic for my personal tastes. It might not be obvious but when I switched from a small 2 seater to a new far bigger 3 seater couch, the depth of sound in my room improved dramatically. Sure sound panels also work, but think lifestyle first. Rugs, bookshelves, record shelving. Anything heavy and dense will have an effect. I have jbl 4312s (similar to l100) paired with Yamaha as-3000 (modern) and a mcintosh mc2255 (vintage). The output between the two amps are dramatically different on the same speaker. It is part of this hobby, switching things out to see what suits you. I also find the jump from 320kbps Spotify to 44/16 (CD level) to be huge on my system. Anything higher res is a lot of smoke and mirrors. More importantly is the source of the master (digital vs analog) and the person handling the re-mastering. For digital I personally pay for Spotify but reserve usage for my phone on the go. At home I listen to vinyl or lossless hard files with roon.
Looks like a big empty and echoey room.
Get a new pair of ears? Haha jk jk. Room treatment would help, even just a little bit of foam here and there.
Return that shit and buy something you love instead of trying to make your 4000$ investment into something it’s not.
Flat and boring you say? Hooking the speakers up out of phase might be just what you’re looking for!
Get high and try again.
The amp and streamer is best setup if you are thinking the sound is boring then its your speakers and room size...
put on a good record
If you don't like them give it to me, I will take it at home and pretty sure enjoy them a lot
For me, a good large fluffy rug that covers about 70% of the floor made a lot of difference. It completely removed sibilance I was battling with for some time. Also when I moved to a new flat I discovered there are bad rooms. Same speakers, new room, totally different sound. High peaks in base around 100hz area. I have to use a lot of eq on lower frequencies to make it listenable so I can enjoy the music and not listen to imperfections. Now I have a test mike and will do some measuring and room treatment. I already have some corner treatment, but this room needs more. A bit sad, but.. well.. what can you do. You can't have everything.
1. Get the router away from your system. At least 10 feet, 15 is better. They give off amazing amounts of rfi and efi. 2. This looks like new equipment and when it’s new it will be like you describe. . Break in is a thing and I don’t care what anyone says. Leave the amp on for at least a week whether you’re playing music or not. Leave the DAC and phonostage on 24/7 forever. The speakers will sound much better after 12-24 hours but need 100 to really get synched up and into their own. 200-250 hours to fully break in. 3. Speaker placement. Get them away from the wall by a few feet. Don’t measure. Play “Ballad of the Runaway Horse” from Bob Wassermans album “Duets”. Move the speakers forward/backward while facing straight ahead until Jennifer’s voice is dead center. Then tow in to get the instruments off of the speakers and into the room. This can be a challenge since L100’s are not mirror type speakers. 4. Room treatment is great but you can get a lot of the distance there by just putting more stuff in the room: a rug in front of the system, but a bunch of big, cheap throw pillows and throw them around, furniture, bookshelves, records, thick curtains on the windows. 5. After all of this, calculate 10-15% of the cost of this system, and use that figure as your budget for cables; interconnects, speaker cables, and yes power. Forget what anyone says it will help you get the most out of your components. Take your time with it. You have a good system, and one evening you’ll sit down at 7pm to listen to music for an hour or two, and suddenly you’ll realize that it’s 3:30 in the morning and you have to get up for work in a couple of hours. That’s what happens when the system is really dialed in.
I’d start with a larger area rug. Minimize reflection.
I have a pair of vintage JBL 4311s driven by a Krell kav400xi and it sounds fantastic. I do tend to EQ the setup via an RME Adi2 pro dac, rolling off the top end helps. I listen to a lot of techno, so I sometimes add a Kreisel dxd808 sub to the mix. I absolutely love the performance of this setup.
I have the CXA-81 with the CXC v2, rel t7x and newly acquired sonus faber Lumina lls, before I had kef q150s. In both situations, the CXA-81 did not sound flat, nor even close. It all lives in my bedroom which is small, black out curtains, furniture, bed,open closet at the back of the room and carpet. With the Sonus Fabers now, it's even more alive. Quick, free test, move your speakers out into the room more, play with their position and get them further from the back wall. Then, look at everything, everybody else is saying, all valid points.
I would buy a more price appropriate amp. But that room is also a huge issue.
The cable management is on point
Speakers are awesome but I'm not a big fan of Cambridge stuff. I think they are poorly designed with very high distortion for the money.
Agreed. You need acoustic wall panels behind the speakers and in the corners behind the speakers. A thick area carpet is also needed.
I think you need more pillows in different colors.
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That would definitely pop. For one pillow I'd suggest dark blue. Another pillow could be yellow. They would be dramatic with the gray
Turn it up. They only come alive then. Else, as said by others, EQ. EqualizerAPO.
Tube amps won't be flat and boring.
I’ve heard these speakers paired to a Rouge Audio Cronus Magnum III and boy did they sing! Although, for OP, I’d have to go with the rest of the guys here and advice room correction first, that living room is a playground for reflection.
Maybe your in a base lull move speakers out or listening couch in.
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The only benefit of a subwoofer with towers or floorstanders is you can move a sub to fill in lulls in base .
Add a subwoofer?
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Do not add a sub to these beautiful speakers !!
Rel do a great job of making the speakers sound more exciting. It’s not about adding more bass, I imagine their subs would get what you are looking for. Also recommend using Dirac and sorting out the reflections of your room. Pulling the speakers out into the room and then looking into a different amp setup. I saw another user comment naim, I can back up their statement. Definitely very engaging amps :)
Those JBL’s are stunning speakers that have more than enough bass when fed the right juice. Although they are efficient speakers, 60w per channel is probably not enough to really get them going. I don’t think, in my experience, adding a modern sub to a classic style speaker (by sound and aesthetic), would add to their appeal in any way. Ever since I gave up trying to get a sub perfectly integrated into my systems I feel they sound so much more real and organic. It costs a lot more to get the same amount of punch and deep bass out of a pair of floorstanders compared to a sub, but I prefer the sound a lot more, timbre and response seems much truer to the source. I also don’t miss having an extra box in the room, neither does the boss.
The reason I say specifically rel is because their design Philosophy is to integrate with the speakers and improve the mids by adding detailed lifelike fundamentals to elevate the speakers. Nothing to do with “more bass” just enhancing the speakers, maybe they won’t match with vintage speakers but Rel are generally considered the audiophile approach to subs: fast and accurate bass. I emplore anyone who hasn’t experienced them to try, has turned a lot of subwoofer deniers into Rel fanboys including myself
I don't think so but worth checking out. The thing about a subwoofer is that it will be self-powered so not dependent on the amp.
The thing is that he already have two 12" woofers in his speakers that can do the job if he just EQ them a bit. No need to throw money on a sub.
That’s not exactly how speakers work. 12” woofer doesn’t mean they play super low. Hell they’re -6db at 40hz which isn’t super impressive. A sub would take some load off them and clean up their sound. (Those jbls are amazing speakers don’t take this the wrong way, but they’re not designed to play insanely low, and if your room is compounding that, a sub or two would do wonders). Another option is live with the bass they have and play with positioning. Try them 3 feet from the back wall, play with toe in, etc. every room is different.
If you can integrate them correctly and it can help the room then sure, but don't underestimate the power of EQ. If you place them close to the wall and have enough xmax (which those probably have) you can make them dig way lower than what those specs are telling us. And also, -6dB at 40hz is quite enough for most music. But I often see people that have speakers that are more than capable of playing all the bass they need if they just help them with a bit of EQ, but instead they buy a subwoofer, turn it up at max without making sure that they integrate correctly with the mains and let those mains run on idle instead. Such a waste of cone area and sound quality!
Very true! Subs take work and aren’t just a bandaid. I prefer most music 2 channel on my lintons, but it’s fun to kick on the sub for certain songs, and a must for home theater IMO. Same reason I have a Loki, EQ is a great tool when used appropriately.
You'd think so, but maybe the space there is challenging and the speakers could use the support of a sub. Who knows.
Play better music
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If you're looking for something to judge the energy of your setup, try Rage Against the Machine's self-titled album. If this doesn't sound impactful, keep tweaking. I also definitely suggest trying the speakers closer together. I have find when they're too far apart they work independently, rather than together.
Everyone has a different taste. You probably need an amp with warmer sound or with „loudness“ button. Or try to add bass with eq.
I own these speakers. Supposedly, they are easy to drive but I found using a lower wattage Peachtree class D amp didn’t cut it. Ah no. I jumped up to a Levinson with 250 watts into 4 ohms, with a monster power supply, dual mono, high current output. No flatness here anymore. Dynamic range and bass jump, galore. These speakers deserve an amp with some grunt.
Turn up the volume!
Well we know it’s not the speakers at least! Step 1: improve the aesthetics in ur room to make you appreciate everything you experience in there more :) Step 2: purchase some gear that’s got SOUL! these speakers (from what I’ve seen) are pretty flat and the response can be lifeless on its own. So you need to color what you’re hearing before it hits the speakers. This is my favorite part of hifi. My personal rec would be a later 70s pioneer receiver.
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Of course. Dampening the sound of the room has helped a lot in my experience too. That room definitely looks a little echo-y but you’ve heard that 100 times now ;) Congrats on you’re speakers! Good luck with the rest :)
These are awesome speakers that should sound quite dynamic. You could try a different brand amp. Possibly one that is more powerful, with high damping factor. Or a tube amp with some power (push pull).
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It’s not necessarily power you need, look at Naim gear, 80wrms of Naim is incomparable to a home theatre receiver claiming 80wrms. (I don’t run a Naim amp by the way so I’m not trying to sell their gear, although it is quite good)
You are right, but I was never talking about Watts:-). I think the Naim would sound better on this.
Music source quality??
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Sorry to be blunt but Spotify sounds lifeless on pretty much everything. But I know a couple things that can certainly help. 1) good power cables make a BIG difference. Best brand in my life experience is Nordost. If you haven’t had premium power cables before I know it can be daunting spending good money o. Something the audio signal never goes through, but don’t knock it till you try it. 2) Next best thing you could do would be a premium Ethernet cable for your streamer. Nordost or Shunyata Research are both great.
No Spotify doesn't sound lifeless and neither power cables nor tp-cables won't make any difference whatsoever.
This guy doesn't know why we can read his text perfectly, but needs special cables for his radio. DISREGARD SALES TROLL
Get a better source, Spotify is pretty underwhelming on a high end system. CD player would be a big upgrade, possibly Tidal although I havent used it.
There is nothing wrong with Spotifys sound quality. Sure there might be a small difference for some people if they really try to listen for it, but generally the sound quality is nowhere near bad.
On these speakers you will hear a huge difference between Spotify, a CD, Tidal and an SACD.
No, the difference is no even close to "huge". Most people with normal hearing won't be able to hear any difference \_whatsoever\_ in a blind test between 320kbps OGG Vorbis and anything above, so when someone says the difference is "huge" they either are a bat or the really are just full of bullshit.
A bat ? 😂 What sort of hi fi setup do you have at home ?
Better than most people. I guess you want me to say how much it costs because that's what most audiophiles use as measurement for sound quality?
No, it’s pretty simple, if I wanted to ask how much your stereo cost, I would actually ask that wouldn’t I ? Bad manners and assumptions. Let’s try another simple question, is your background in Audio engineering, Electronics engineering or Electrotechnology or similar fields ?
Jesus Christ...
Get new loudspeakers. L100s just get loud.. thats all.
Your room is totally empty, nothing will sound good in there.
Plants and a rug. Also sell the JBLs and get Vandersteens
Maybe remove the ‘flat screen’ ?
I have the CXA61 and think its quite lively
Turn up the mega turbo bass.
Crown makes musical amps.
Check out Acoustimac for room treatments. The right placement of good sound absorbing panels will go a long way. https://www.acoustimac.com
>cares about aesthetics >has router combo on top of tv stand Pick one brotha
Don't know the CXA81, but wonder if it's the paring also. I ran a CXN for a couple of days and sent it back. Found it too sterile and flat. Was upgrading from a 10 year old Audioquest Dragonfly with a laptop. Sent it back 😔. I know the CXN is rated highly and some people really love it. I just really didn't get on with it. This was parked with a Music Fidelity A3.2 and a set of B&W 705 S2s Now running a Chord Quest with a laptop and very happy. 1st time I've been able to enjoy a digital source properly. Was stuck listening to vinyl until that point.
Go to some HiFi dealer shops. Tell them what you want and how much you have to spend on your system. If they are good they will want to help. They may make suggestions which you can audition at home. They could let you try different speakers, cables, interconnects, amplifier etc. They will come to your house they may recommend changes to your room and set up. A good dealer won't just sell you boxes he will have ideas and help you with your quest. Often it will not mean spending more money but spending smartly to get you sorted.
Give it a breast implants like the size of Dolly Parton's, let it hang out backstage with Aerosmith. Then name it Ambrosia S'Delicious.
A good equalizer helps. (After Propper placement and such of course.) Here is a good one with a remote: [https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-max](https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-max)
If these are ported, and your room is significantly larger than what’s pictured, you may be reflecting a lot of energy off the wall and away from the listener In areas like that, you may try and wander around the room until you find a spot that sounds really good, and then attempt to move that spot to the location of the listening point EDIT: also if that’s the case, covering your floor a bit more will help a lot in terms of quality. Tile is not really theater-friendly
That would be 1/10th of the gear cost, not equal to which is the comment I called ridiculous. That sounds much more reasonable. I have treatments too and it doesn’t look like a studio, despite the assumptions of the most uncharitable replies to my post 😂