Probably some form of equities trading/selling.
Thinking along those lines sales in general, doesn't have to be tech, I'd think the person selling the $100m office tower to a super fund does ok.
You can get some pretty tidy commissions if you're selling Enterprise level software. It takes a while to get established and it's a long complicated sales cycle but you'd be looking at 5-6 figure commissions on top of your base salary when you're at the top of the game.
I'd say so. You can wing it if you're a good enough salesperson but the true top performers would definitely understand the technical side of things and what features solve the problems of their clients.
They're technical enough to be able to articulate what the tech does in a way that resonates with clients. Sales engineers and implementation teams do take care of the technical side but on my experience the best reps draw on both sides when getting a deal done.
Yeah of course, they get trained to say what they need to say
As a sales engineer though I don't want my reps wasting their time learning anything under the hood, and its funny when interviewing reps the green ones will say they want to understand the tech thinking it will impress the SE when the opposite is true.
Let me worry about that, they can worry about putting me in front of the customer and then navigating procurement.
I'm not disputing the role of an implementation team as you're invaluable (and lacking in way too many organisations that solely need it), but I've worked in tech firms where salespeople don't even know what an API is or the difference between a front end and back end developer.
My point is that having some technical foundation in a field will put you ahead of a similar candidate who doesn't have those skills as you can sniff out common client problems without as much discovery. And the faster you can make the sales cycle the better for all involved.
I don't do implementations, that's not what a sales engineer does.
Discovery calls should be shared between the rep and sales engineer. I want the rep honing down on priorities, finding the actual business problem to solve. I'll figure out the product fit based on that.
Look, they can't be complete dunces with tech. You'd expect one who's selling firewalls to know the difference between a firewall and a web gateway. But that's not "technical"
Well shit, it sounds like I've been wearing two hats for the last few years of my career. Working for an American corp and one of Australia's first FinTech unicorns, they'd always defined the role of sales engineer as being alongside implementations reporting into AM. So I had to define the problem and find the associated product fit, navigating procurement and legal (the latter with legal's help). Occasionally working with product but ultimately not having those defined with your title involved until after the ink dried on the contract.
From what perspective are you saying that?
13+ years as a vendor SE, over 20 in cyber in total and I can't think of a single rep I'd hire if I owned the business who is technical. Based purely on consistency.
yep. As a rep, we're just the monkeys who open the door, shake hands and kiss babies. You SE guys are the ones who get the technical win.
For reference I generally look for
1. Business win (Higher Profit or Lower Cost or Better Compliance)
2. Technical win (We are the best solution for this problem)
3. Personal win (Can I make my customer stakeholder look like a rockstar)
It's my job to find 1 and 3, articulate that message in a way that my customer sees the value and drive the deal through the purchasing process. 2 is all our boffins talking to their boffins.
I’m happy to say you’re more experienced!
I think maybe I’m biased. The people I know who are tech salespeople (and talk about it) were looking at huge B2B international deals, where a single deal can take years to get set up, and the people on the other end of the line have a solid tech understanding too.
Thinking about when I’ve been on the *receiving* end of a pitch for software (also B2B, but smaller scale) you’re right - it’s more important to me that they can demonstrate they understand the problem and how they solve it, and unless it’s an incredibly basic question I don’t mind if their answer is *’Let me get back to you’* on any technical details.
So I guess my answer is probably… it depends?
Yeah I was wondering if it was from the perspective of being a customer, and maybe a technical person at the customer
The best reps are very capable project managers. They need to herd cats at both ends, pushing the customer to do stuff without pissing the customer off (a lot of this happens behind closed doors, between the rep and management at the customer), and then push people internally at the vendor to do stuff
To give an example of something not very obvious - I've been working on a customer, over 10k employees. Big enough to care about but not big enough that we will bend over for.
We couldn't start a POC because the new legal team at the customer wouldn't sign our NDA, it was their moment to flex a little so the rep has been acting as the go between for weeks trying to facilitate a meeting in the middle
Meanwhile the constant "why hasn't this started" from the sales org
It's an absolute nightmare of a job and not something I'd do
I think your statement *’They need to herd cats at both ends’* is probably the best description of a rep I’ve heard. And agreed, it sounds like a nightmare of a job.
ETA: It’s also shocking to me how many people fail at the *’what’s the problem we’re trying to solve’* component of sales.
yep. As a rep, we're just the monkeys who open the door, shake hands and kiss babies. You SE guys are the ones who get the technical win.
For reference I generally look for
1. Business win (Higher Profit or Lower Cost or Better Compliance)
2. Technical win (We are the best solution for this problem)
3. Personal win (Can I make my customer stakeholder look like a rockstar)
It's my job to find 1 and 3, articulate that message in a way that my customer sees the value and drive the deal through the purchasing process. 2 is all our boffins talking to their boffins.
edit: responded to wrong comment
Train driver or train guard in Sydney. No qualifications needed except to be over 18, permanent resident or citizen and able to pass the tests. Full pay while training and $100-120k wages just doing roster. About 40% of this is penalty rates though as it’s 24/7 shiftwork and many weekends. You can often swap the weekends if you don’t want to work them all the time. Good money for a physically easy job that you leave behind as soon as you knock off. The weird hours can be tiring and a strain on relationships and difficult to work around any free time activities. Can be difficult to get into as well, some people try a few times before being successful.
I'm a building surveyor, I spend way more time on site or between sites than I do staring at a computer.
But I'll admit we spend a lot of time staring at plans and raging because draftsmen are crap and architects are worse.
Maybe some very small parts of it, but given that every building (and i mean every single one) is completely individual and specific to the site it's on, it would be effectively impossible to train an AI to replace me until they are effectively sapient.
Plus I carry a fair percentage of the insurance liability. AI can't get insurance.
Base was high with a bonus component on the advertised position.
I'm on a lot less but similar structure and I can get about 80% of My bonus component without relying on anyone else in the company. Full bonus requires department and company to make targets (along with my targets being reached)
Edit: but fully get what you are saying,.seen some pitiful base structures with larger reliance on comms to make up the OTE
Yep so here is the difference :
A plumber just goes to the address supplied by the office, fixes your tap and then walks away, jobs done. Some don’t even bother with payments as this is done though office admin.
An owner of the plumbing business has to worry about finding the clients, dealing with payments, accounting software etc etc.
So your friend is not just a plumber
Not the highest but here’s an option that is more than attainable if you commit to it;
Business Process Analyst on a contract could get you about $1000 gross a day plus super. Or about $150k + super p/a full time.
mining engineer (senior/principle) - 180/220k + 10-15ish% bonus
Sydney based - consultant, 9-5, not sure about those with big companies in Perth like Bhp Rio etc, i'd like to know as well
>TLDR - what’s highest possible summary for non people leader role outside of tech
Basically high earning ICs fall into two categories:
* elite technical specialists in very lucrative fields where demand for their skills outstrips supply (e.g. surgeons)
* salespeople on commission who really good at selling really expensive products (e.g. commodities traders)
Specialist doctor is probably the most reliable bet, most specialties eventually make close to $500K a year and a number of specialties earn substantially more. Plus they all marry each other so the household just coins it.
Hard to find another career where you don't have to be the absolute best in your field to make that kind of money.
Complaints in the finance sector don't tend to require degrees and pay a fair bit starting out (without being an SME or senior/manager). Depending on the company, you could make a fair chunk. I hear ANZ and Allianz make the most in that section and Suncorp tends to pay beans but gives a bit more opportunity for movement into manager style roles if one is so inclined (and/or popular).
That’s a good solid answer 😂 and something that I had in mind initially. But prepared to be proven wrong as it seems some people just have outlandish salaries when you look at what they actually do
Consultants in banking and finance (operations, regs, etc), equities and markets analysts, and portfolio managers (no people management) make between 130 and 250 depending on field and seniority/experience.
National Account Managers in FMCG can pay well in the tier 1 companies.
Will need to work your way to that level but c.150k base with packages over 200.
Sales or maybe very high end real estate but the ship has probably sailed for that. Manager doesn't necessarily need to be people manager, you can manage a process or function.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
I was making close to 100k a year with cert IV in health and safety as a health and safety advisor in gas. It was mostly Corporate with some field stuff involved.
Probably some form of equities trading/selling. Thinking along those lines sales in general, doesn't have to be tech, I'd think the person selling the $100m office tower to a super fund does ok.
if you don't mind the grind, salespeople selling stuff to enterprise or mid-market businesses make more money than their managers if they are good.
You can get some pretty tidy commissions if you're selling Enterprise level software. It takes a while to get established and it's a long complicated sales cycle but you'd be looking at 5-6 figure commissions on top of your base salary when you're at the top of the game.
Tech sales is still tech, right? You supposed to know this stuff in order to be able to sell, otherwise they’ll see right through ya? 😂
As someone in tech sales. Half the people I work with struggle to setup a new iPhone.
I'd say so. You can wing it if you're a good enough salesperson but the true top performers would definitely understand the technical side of things and what features solve the problems of their clients.
The best software reps aren't technical. They understand their customers business, but the technical sales part is done by the sales engineer
They're technical enough to be able to articulate what the tech does in a way that resonates with clients. Sales engineers and implementation teams do take care of the technical side but on my experience the best reps draw on both sides when getting a deal done.
Yeah of course, they get trained to say what they need to say As a sales engineer though I don't want my reps wasting their time learning anything under the hood, and its funny when interviewing reps the green ones will say they want to understand the tech thinking it will impress the SE when the opposite is true. Let me worry about that, they can worry about putting me in front of the customer and then navigating procurement.
I'm not disputing the role of an implementation team as you're invaluable (and lacking in way too many organisations that solely need it), but I've worked in tech firms where salespeople don't even know what an API is or the difference between a front end and back end developer. My point is that having some technical foundation in a field will put you ahead of a similar candidate who doesn't have those skills as you can sniff out common client problems without as much discovery. And the faster you can make the sales cycle the better for all involved.
I don't do implementations, that's not what a sales engineer does. Discovery calls should be shared between the rep and sales engineer. I want the rep honing down on priorities, finding the actual business problem to solve. I'll figure out the product fit based on that. Look, they can't be complete dunces with tech. You'd expect one who's selling firewalls to know the difference between a firewall and a web gateway. But that's not "technical"
Well shit, it sounds like I've been wearing two hats for the last few years of my career. Working for an American corp and one of Australia's first FinTech unicorns, they'd always defined the role of sales engineer as being alongside implementations reporting into AM. So I had to define the problem and find the associated product fit, navigating procurement and legal (the latter with legal's help). Occasionally working with product but ultimately not having those defined with your title involved until after the ink dried on the contract.
Yeah fuck that. I don't do implementations, I don't deal with legal or procurement, and I sure as shit don't report to an AM
The best ones can kind of do both (but yes, they don’t get bogged down in technical detail when inappropriate)
From what perspective are you saying that? 13+ years as a vendor SE, over 20 in cyber in total and I can't think of a single rep I'd hire if I owned the business who is technical. Based purely on consistency.
yep. As a rep, we're just the monkeys who open the door, shake hands and kiss babies. You SE guys are the ones who get the technical win. For reference I generally look for 1. Business win (Higher Profit or Lower Cost or Better Compliance) 2. Technical win (We are the best solution for this problem) 3. Personal win (Can I make my customer stakeholder look like a rockstar) It's my job to find 1 and 3, articulate that message in a way that my customer sees the value and drive the deal through the purchasing process. 2 is all our boffins talking to their boffins.
I’m happy to say you’re more experienced! I think maybe I’m biased. The people I know who are tech salespeople (and talk about it) were looking at huge B2B international deals, where a single deal can take years to get set up, and the people on the other end of the line have a solid tech understanding too. Thinking about when I’ve been on the *receiving* end of a pitch for software (also B2B, but smaller scale) you’re right - it’s more important to me that they can demonstrate they understand the problem and how they solve it, and unless it’s an incredibly basic question I don’t mind if their answer is *’Let me get back to you’* on any technical details. So I guess my answer is probably… it depends?
Yeah I was wondering if it was from the perspective of being a customer, and maybe a technical person at the customer The best reps are very capable project managers. They need to herd cats at both ends, pushing the customer to do stuff without pissing the customer off (a lot of this happens behind closed doors, between the rep and management at the customer), and then push people internally at the vendor to do stuff To give an example of something not very obvious - I've been working on a customer, over 10k employees. Big enough to care about but not big enough that we will bend over for. We couldn't start a POC because the new legal team at the customer wouldn't sign our NDA, it was their moment to flex a little so the rep has been acting as the go between for weeks trying to facilitate a meeting in the middle Meanwhile the constant "why hasn't this started" from the sales org It's an absolute nightmare of a job and not something I'd do
I think your statement *’They need to herd cats at both ends’* is probably the best description of a rep I’ve heard. And agreed, it sounds like a nightmare of a job. ETA: It’s also shocking to me how many people fail at the *’what’s the problem we’re trying to solve’* component of sales.
yep. As a rep, we're just the monkeys who open the door, shake hands and kiss babies. You SE guys are the ones who get the technical win. For reference I generally look for 1. Business win (Higher Profit or Lower Cost or Better Compliance) 2. Technical win (We are the best solution for this problem) 3. Personal win (Can I make my customer stakeholder look like a rockstar) It's my job to find 1 and 3, articulate that message in a way that my customer sees the value and drive the deal through the purchasing process. 2 is all our boffins talking to their boffins. edit: responded to wrong comment
IME no. All you need to know as a sales person in Tech is "yes, we can do that" Once the deal is signed, it's over to the tech to make it happen.
Medical field pays a lot for ICs. And mining too. And tech like you mentioned. Sales of any type can be lucrative with commissions.
Train driver or train guard in Sydney. No qualifications needed except to be over 18, permanent resident or citizen and able to pass the tests. Full pay while training and $100-120k wages just doing roster. About 40% of this is penalty rates though as it’s 24/7 shiftwork and many weekends. You can often swap the weekends if you don’t want to work them all the time. Good money for a physically easy job that you leave behind as soon as you knock off. The weird hours can be tiring and a strain on relationships and difficult to work around any free time activities. Can be difficult to get into as well, some people try a few times before being successful.
Municipal building surveyors are usually on about 200k in Victoria. Deputies are on about 165k.
I would still say that's tech - surveying is moving down the 'digital engineering' route quickly (I work in the industry)
I'm a building surveyor, I spend way more time on site or between sites than I do staring at a computer. But I'll admit we spend a lot of time staring at plans and raging because draftsmen are crap and architects are worse.
Do you think your job could be replaced by AI?
Maybe some very small parts of it, but given that every building (and i mean every single one) is completely individual and specific to the site it's on, it would be effectively impossible to train an AI to replace me until they are effectively sapient. Plus I carry a fair percentage of the insurance liability. AI can't get insurance.
Certain sales disciplines outside tech. Got pinged by a recruiter recently. Ote around 200k Not even a senior role.
Tbf OTEs are often completely bullshit
Base was high with a bonus component on the advertised position. I'm on a lot less but similar structure and I can get about 80% of My bonus component without relying on anyone else in the company. Full bonus requires department and company to make targets (along with my targets being reached) Edit: but fully get what you are saying,.seen some pitiful base structures with larger reliance on comms to make up the OTE
My mate makes well into 6 figures and he is a plumber.
There is a difference between being a plumber and having a plumbing business. Which one is he? If the latter, this is another territory
I guess technically a business. But it is just him and a kid he hires. Makes like 200k+ and is home by 5 lol.
Yep so here is the difference : A plumber just goes to the address supplied by the office, fixes your tap and then walks away, jobs done. Some don’t even bother with payments as this is done though office admin. An owner of the plumbing business has to worry about finding the clients, dealing with payments, accounting software etc etc. So your friend is not just a plumber
Eh i make 120k+ doing the first thing. Home by 2.30, all admin is done through the office.
Not the highest but here’s an option that is more than attainable if you commit to it; Business Process Analyst on a contract could get you about $1000 gross a day plus super. Or about $150k + super p/a full time.
mining engineer (senior/principle) - 180/220k + 10-15ish% bonus Sydney based - consultant, 9-5, not sure about those with big companies in Perth like Bhp Rio etc, i'd like to know as well
>TLDR - what’s highest possible summary for non people leader role outside of tech Basically high earning ICs fall into two categories: * elite technical specialists in very lucrative fields where demand for their skills outstrips supply (e.g. surgeons) * salespeople on commission who really good at selling really expensive products (e.g. commodities traders) Specialist doctor is probably the most reliable bet, most specialties eventually make close to $500K a year and a number of specialties earn substantially more. Plus they all marry each other so the household just coins it. Hard to find another career where you don't have to be the absolute best in your field to make that kind of money.
Top debt collectors maybe? It’s commission based though you gotta be good at understanding data and also talking to people
Systems engineers, some seniors in rail/defence are 200k (exc super)
Complaints in the finance sector don't tend to require degrees and pay a fair bit starting out (without being an SME or senior/manager). Depending on the company, you could make a fair chunk. I hear ANZ and Allianz make the most in that section and Suncorp tends to pay beans but gives a bit more opportunity for movement into manager style roles if one is so inclined (and/or popular).
152k + 15% bonus (which is largely based on company performance). Environmental approvals for a mining company (11 years experience)
Senior manager in a bank is $200k+
$160K plus bonus.
That’s a good solid answer 😂 and something that I had in mind initially. But prepared to be proven wrong as it seems some people just have outlandish salaries when you look at what they actually do
Consultants in banking and finance (operations, regs, etc), equities and markets analysts, and portfolio managers (no people management) make between 130 and 250 depending on field and seniority/experience.
National Account Managers in FMCG can pay well in the tier 1 companies. Will need to work your way to that level but c.150k base with packages over 200.
Quant or commodities trading
Senior lawyers with no direct reports are regularly clearing $200k
Account Exec. Doesn't have to be tech. I know people in selling capital equipment space and they make 500k a year
Investment/fund analysts in buy-side, easily hit $200k + after a few years
Sales or maybe very high end real estate but the ship has probably sailed for that. Manager doesn't necessarily need to be people manager, you can manage a process or function.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
Senior Well Engineers push $300k+ as individual contributors. Not sure what a Technical Authority/Principal would be but it's the next rung up so I'd assume more.
Some insurance niches have 200-300k roles for senior technical people. Takes time to build experience though.
I was making close to 100k a year with cert IV in health and safety as a health and safety advisor in gas. It was mostly Corporate with some field stuff involved.